Dragon Warrior 4 (At the moment, planning)

2010-04-17 09:04:26 pm

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

Sub-30 for Chapter 1 should be a given. If you add up the times I got, I came up with 33 minutes but that was with a lot of mistakes.

If you're taping the run, you should just keep going and finish the game. At least get through the first half of Chapter 2, we've solidified that much.

I realized that since killing a single Metal Babble gives even more experience than Saroknight (and can be done a lot quicker) Segment 31 is now scrapped. The Sphere of Silence is definitely not needed for Bakor, Balzack 2's Snowstorm can hurt twice as much and he was no problem.

I also need to try out grinding in the Gottside hills. Necrosaro can cause a lot of problems, with the levels I had it took tons of luck just to beat him, a SS run would have to grind a lot more. If Metal Babbles/King Metals ever use physical attacks, I wonder Swordedge Armor can damage metals. Indeed, the best setup would be to use just Hero/Brey, Transform into Brey, Sap Hero, provided the Hero is equipped with Mirror Shield and Swordedge Armor. Then again, Transforming into Mara and casting BeDragon would probably be equally reliable >_>

My computer is down at the moment so I haven't been optimizing these segments any more. But I think I'd rather do a SS run anyway.

Someone try the Ironize versus Esturk thing though. The strange lights hurt a lot but the physical attacks are much easier to cope with, especially if Cristo smartens up and casts Increase.

Sub-30 for Chapter 1 should be a given. If you add up the times I got, I came up with 33 minutes but that was with a lot of mistakes.

If you're taping the run, you should just keep going and finish the game. At least get through the first half of Chapter 2, we've solidified that much.

I realized that since killing a single Metal Babble gives even more experience than Saroknight (and can be done a lot quicker) Segment 31 is now scrapped. The Sphere of Silence is definitely not needed for Bakor, Balzack 2's Snowstorm can hurt twice as much and he was no problem.

I also need to try out grinding in the Gottside hills. Necrosaro can cause a lot of problems, with the levels I had it took tons of luck just to beat him, a SS run would have to grind a lot more. If Metal Babbles/King Metals ever use physical attacks, I wonder Swordedge Armor can damage metals. Indeed, the best setup would be to use just Hero/Brey, Transform into Brey, Sap Hero, provided the Hero is equipped with Mirror Shield and Swordedge Armor. Then again, Transforming into Mara and casting BeDragon would probably be equally reliable >_>

My computer is down at the moment so I haven't been optimizing these segments any more. But I think I'd rather do a SS run anyway.

Someone try the Ironize versus Esturk thing though. The strange lights hurt a lot but the physical attacks are much easier to cope with, especially if Cristo smartens up and casts Increase.

chessjerk

2010-04-18 05:24:45 pm

Quote from ShinerCCC:

Someone try the Ironize versus Esturk thing though. The strange lights hurt a lot but the physical attacks are much easier to cope with, especially if Cristo smartens up and casts Increase.

I tried it in my test run (where I'm using only the Hero, Ragnar, Mara, and Alena), and it does achieve the intended effect of waiting until Esturk is awake and ready to fight. Although, you do lose the free turn you would have gotten without Ironizing (the turn he wakes up and does nothing).

In any event, I redid Chapter 1 and managed to blast through Chapter 2 as well.

Chapter 1

Segment 1 - 7:50

Much better this time, just the right amount of battles.

Segment 2 - 8:58

Ditto.

Segment 3 - 9:47

Predictably, this was a pain. Finally managed to win the boss fight with Ragnar at 3 HP and Healie dead. Whew!

Total Chapter 1 - 26:35

Chapter 2

Segment 4 - 18:24

Updated notes:

Talk to Brey, left soldier @ front gate, Cristo on right
Find Fairy Water (second drawer in chapel) & Feather Hat (second drawer in Alena’ room)
Kick through wall to escape
Walk to Surene, sell Feather Hat, buy Thorn Whip (Alena) and Copper Sword (Cristo)
Go outside, fight around Surene until level 2, rest
Walk to Tempe, get to level 4, need 268 gold
Rest @ Tempe, talk to mayor (right house)
Fight boss (Alena/Brey take out hounds, Cristo uses Upper/Heal), get nuts
Rest at inn, find more nuts at monster location
Walk to Frenor, watch event at inn, buy Chain Mail for Alena, save

Decent boss fight, just the right amount of battles to level up to 4.

Segment 5 - 4:30

Updated notes:

Go to cave, get Golden Bracelet (run, pass all treasure)
Suicide, respawn at Frenor
Sell Silk Robe, Fairy Water, Club, buy three Wings
Revive Cristo and Brey (costs 30 gold each at level 5), save

Went exactly as planned. There was a comical scene on the bottom floor of the cave when I had no encounters all the way to the Golden Bracelet, then wandered around for a good 15 seconds after THAT trying to get a random battle to suicide.

Segment 6 - 4:37

Updated notes:

Walk to Bazaar, find Strength Seed in left pot, talk to the soldier
Walk to Frenor, get Thief Key @ night, rest, save

Just as planned.

Segment 7 - 6:45

Updated notes:

Use Strength Seed on Alena, get +3
Wings to Bazaar
Go to tower, get Birdsong Nectar (get 1200 gold treasure & Strength Seed, pass other treasure)
Wings to Santeem, give nectar to King
Wings to Bazaar, rest
Walk to shrine
Walk to Endor
Go to item store, sell items, buy Wooden Hat
Talk to King
Go to tournament, buy Iron Claw and 2 herbs
Save

I got sick of retrying this annoying segment, so I think I settled for +2 on the seed. However, I had only TWO encounters after the first floor of the tower. I was amazed.

I also ran into a Metal Slime on the way to Endor, but it ran away.

Segments 8 thru 10 - 5:40 total

Surprisingly easy. First Metal Slime kill on the second random battle, the other two were on the first random battle. Alena gets to level 12.

Segment 11 - 5:26

I got a lot of critical hits in my attempts at the tournament, but none of them ever came against Sampson. Finally got one on the second hit, then spent 6 turns killing Linguar, which isn't too shabby.

Total Chapter 2 - 45:22

[quote="ShinerCCC"]
Someone try the Ironize versus Esturk thing though. The strange lights hurt a lot but the physical attacks are much easier to cope with, especially if Cristo smartens up and casts Increase.
[/quote]

I tried it in my test run (where I'm using only the Hero, Ragnar, Mara, and Alena), and it does achieve the intended effect of waiting until Esturk is awake and ready to fight. Although, you do lose the free turn you would have gotten without Ironizing (the turn he wakes up and does nothing).

In any event, I redid Chapter 1 and managed to blast through Chapter 2 as well.

Chapter 1

Segment 1 - 7:50

Much better this time, just the right amount of battles.

Segment 2 - 8:58

Ditto.

Segment 3 - 9:47

Predictably, this was a pain. Finally managed to win the boss fight with Ragnar at 3 HP and Healie dead. Whew!

Total Chapter 1 - 26:35

Chapter 2

Segment 4 - 18:24

Updated notes:

Talk to Brey, left soldier @ front gate, Cristo on right
Find Fairy Water (second drawer in chapel) & Feather Hat (second drawer in Alena’ room)
Kick through wall to escape
Walk to Surene, sell Feather Hat, buy Thorn Whip (Alena) and Copper Sword (Cristo)
Go outside, fight around Surene until level 2, rest
Walk to Tempe, get to level 4, need 268 gold
Rest @ Tempe, talk to mayor (right house)
Fight boss (Alena/Brey take out hounds, Cristo uses Upper/Heal), get nuts
Rest at inn, find more nuts at monster location
Walk to Frenor, watch event at inn, buy Chain Mail for Alena, save

Decent boss fight, just the right amount of battles to level up to 4.

Segment 5 - 4:30

Updated notes:

Go to cave, get Golden Bracelet (run, pass all treasure)
Suicide, respawn at Frenor
Sell Silk Robe, Fairy Water, Club, buy three Wings
Revive Cristo and Brey (costs 30 gold each at level 5), save

Went exactly as planned. There was a comical scene on the bottom floor of the cave when I had no encounters all the way to the Golden Bracelet, then wandered around for a good 15 seconds after THAT trying to get a random battle to suicide.

Segment 6 - 4:37

Updated notes:

Walk to Bazaar, find Strength Seed in left pot, talk to the soldier
Walk to Frenor, get Thief Key @ night, rest, save

Just as planned.

Segment 7 - 6:45

Updated notes:

Use Strength Seed on Alena, get +3
Wings to Bazaar
Go to tower, get Birdsong Nectar (get 1200 gold treasure & Strength Seed, pass other treasure)
Wings to Santeem, give nectar to King
Wings to Bazaar, rest
Walk to shrine
Walk to Endor
Go to item store, sell items, buy Wooden Hat
Talk to King
Go to tournament, buy Iron Claw and 2 herbs
Save

I got sick of retrying this annoying segment, so I think I settled for +2 on the seed. However, I had only TWO encounters after the first floor of the tower. I was amazed.

I also ran into a Metal Slime on the way to Endor, but it ran away.

Segments 8 thru 10 - 5:40 total

Surprisingly easy. First Metal Slime kill on the second random battle, the other two were on the first random battle. Alena gets to level 12.

Segment 11 - 5:26

I got a lot of critical hits in my attempts at the tournament, but none of them ever came against Sampson. Finally got one on the second hit, then spent 6 turns killing Linguar, which isn't too shabby.

Total Chapter 2 - 45:22

ShinerCCC

2010-04-19 06:41:35 am

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

Great times, CJ! I hope you're recording this run and planning to submit it? Hope you picked a female Hero and a good (short) name for her, she has the added advantage of wearing a Golden Barrette.

Good call on boosting Alena's strength, I noticed it starts to make a big difference with Stiletto Earrings early on.

If you really want to start Taloon with Sword of Malice, you should probably do that segment before the ones I described so you don't have to Wing to Lakanaba later. You'll also get some wages from the boss, which you can spend on armor or Herbs (or no haggling for your clothes!) to save time in that first traveling segment.

Why use Mara in the test run? Does big damage in random encounters? Cristo's Defeat spell can serve a similar purpose, Ryverns are especially vulnerable to it. And he's usually a lot smarter in boss battles, and does pretty good damage with a Sword of Miracles. Giving him a Hat of Happiness in the trip through Aktemto Mines was instrumental in staying healed too, especially since I got poisoned at least two or three times on the way to Esturk. He can get that Hat a lot sooner now too, since I realized the fourth Sword of Miracles is given to you for free by Infurnus Shadow.

I also still need to test out how to end Chapter 3: how much gold is needed at the end of the feedback loop to fill the order and get a good start at the casino, and also what to give Taloon for ending gear. I think it's best to not use him and use Ragnar instead because Ragnar can use better gear, has more HP and is more consistent in delivering powerful attacks. He also reliably goes last with his low Agility so you can cope with his AI. This means Taloon's ending gear should be 7x Broad Sword and an Iron Apron (needs some defense so he can be a useful meat shield in the Shrine of Breaking Waves). Keep him in the back and have him appropriate a Sword of Malice or Sword of Miracles from one of the characters who died earlier. Speaking of that place, I would suggest this order of events for Chapter 5 after getting Alena: return to Endor, grab island Medal, add Haville and Keeleon to return list, sail up Aktemto and Seaside Village, learn about Panon, get Sword of Miracles, get Panon, get Magic Key, kill Keeleon and get Ragnar, then get Zenithian Armor and challenge Balzack 2. Keeleon is easy, especially with a Sword of Miracles and Panon keeping him under. Without Taloon, your team is probably Hero/Cristo/Panon/Alena. Panon isn't needed to get the Magic Key, the dungeon isn't dangerous at all, but he's sort of on the way and he'll reliably win encounters with that mighty Sword of Lethargy.

You can put off the trip for Stiletto Earrings until after Keeleon, they won't do great damage this early on and you'll be relying on criticals for them to pay off. Ragnar doesn't need the experience though, it's only a short trip by boat (no good exp, maybe even Repel will start working). You'll definitely have enough money though, because with the Magic Key you can go grab the Multi-Edge Sword any time and sell it for 2475 gold. Keep that in mind when you're buying gear in Mintos before leaving it for good.

I might be able to test out that Chapter 3 stuff tomorrow.

Great times, CJ! I hope you're recording this run and planning to submit it? Hope you picked a female Hero and a good (short) name for her, she has the added advantage of wearing a Golden Barrette.

Good call on boosting Alena's strength, I noticed it starts to make a big difference with Stiletto Earrings early on.

If you really want to start Taloon with Sword of Malice, you should probably do that segment before the ones I described so you don't have to Wing to Lakanaba later. You'll also get some wages from the boss, which you can spend on armor or Herbs (or no haggling for your clothes!) to save time in that first traveling segment.

Why use Mara in the test run? Does big damage in random encounters? Cristo's Defeat spell can serve a similar purpose, Ryverns are especially vulnerable to it. And he's usually a lot smarter in boss battles, and does pretty good damage with a Sword of Miracles. Giving him a Hat of Happiness in the trip through Aktemto Mines was instrumental in staying healed too, especially since I got poisoned at least two or three times on the way to Esturk. He can get that Hat a lot sooner now too, since I realized the fourth Sword of Miracles is given to you for free by Infurnus Shadow.

I also still need to test out how to end Chapter 3: how much gold is needed at the end of the feedback loop to fill the order and get a good start at the casino, and also what to give Taloon for ending gear. I think it's best to not use him and use Ragnar instead because Ragnar can use better gear, has more HP and is more consistent in delivering powerful attacks. He also reliably goes last with his low Agility so you can cope with his AI. This means Taloon's ending gear should be 7x Broad Sword and an Iron Apron (needs some defense so he can be a useful meat shield in the Shrine of Breaking Waves). Keep him in the back and have him appropriate a Sword of Malice or Sword of Miracles from one of the characters who died earlier. Speaking of that place, I would suggest this order of events for Chapter 5 after getting Alena: return to Endor, grab island Medal, add Haville and Keeleon to return list, sail up Aktemto and Seaside Village, learn about Panon, get Sword of Miracles, get Panon, get Magic Key, kill Keeleon and get Ragnar, then get Zenithian Armor and challenge Balzack 2. Keeleon is easy, especially with a Sword of Miracles and Panon keeping him under. Without Taloon, your team is probably Hero/Cristo/Panon/Alena. Panon isn't needed to get the Magic Key, the dungeon isn't dangerous at all, but he's sort of on the way and he'll reliably win encounters with that mighty Sword of Lethargy.

You can put off the trip for Stiletto Earrings until after Keeleon, they won't do great damage this early on and you'll be relying on criticals for them to pay off. Ragnar doesn't need the experience though, it's only a short trip by boat (no good exp, maybe even Repel will start working). You'll definitely have enough money though, because with the Magic Key you can go grab the Multi-Edge Sword any time and sell it for 2475 gold. Keep that in mind when you're buying gear in Mintos before leaving it for good.

I might be able to test out that Chapter 3 stuff tomorrow.

chessjerk

Edit history:

chessjerk: 2010-04-19 09:04:44 pm

2010-04-19 08:35:52 pm

weeee, long post ahead!

Quote from ShinerCCC:

Great times, CJ! I hope you're recording this run and planning to submit it? Hope you picked a female Hero and a good (short) name for her, she has the added advantage of wearing a Golden Barrette.

That is the plan. I took your suggestion and named her "CJ". Although, I don't think I will get a Golden Barrette, the extra defense is only 4 more over the Feather Hat.

Quote:

If you really want to start Taloon with Sword of Malice, you should probably do that segment before the ones I described so you don't have to Wing to Lakanaba later. You'll also get some wages from the boss, which you can spend on armor or Herbs (or no haggling for your clothes!) to save time in that first traveling segment.

I have another revised route through Chapter 3 so that I only need to get one Sword of Malice sold to me in the shop instead of two. I'll post it in a bit.

Quote:

Why use Mara in the test run? Does big damage in random encounters? Cristo's Defeat spell can serve a similar purpose, Ryverns are especially vulnerable to it. And he's usually a lot smarter in boss battles, and does pretty good damage with a Sword of Miracles. Giving him a Hat of Happiness in the trip through Aktemto Mines was instrumental in staying healed too, especially since I got poisoned at least two or three times on the way to Esturk. He can get that Hat a lot sooner now too, since I realized the fourth Sword of Miracles is given to you for free by Infurnus Shadow.

I was going this route since Mara has early access to Blazemore for the Keeleon and Balzack battles. But, if I can get an early Sword of Miracles for Cristo (which I will be able to do), he should be good to go.

Quote:

I also still need to test out how to end Chapter 3: how much gold is needed at the end of the feedback loop to fill the order and get a good start at the casino, and also what to give Taloon for ending gear. I think it's best to not use him and use Ragnar instead because Ragnar can use better gear, has more HP and is more consistent in delivering powerful attacks. He also reliably goes last with his low Agility so you can cope with his AI. This means Taloon's ending gear should be 7x Broad Sword and an Iron Apron (needs some defense so he can be a useful meat shield in the Shrine of Breaking Waves). Keep him in the back and have him appropriate a Sword of Malice or Sword of Miracles from one of the characters who died earlier. Speaking of that place, I would suggest this order of events for Chapter 5 after getting Alena: return to Endor, grab island Medal, add Haville and Keeleon to return list, sail up Aktemto and Seaside Village, learn about Panon, get Sword of Miracles, get Panon, get Magic Key, kill Keeleon and get Ragnar, then get Zenithian Armor and challenge Balzack 2. Keeleon is easy, especially with a Sword of Miracles and Panon keeping him under. Without Taloon, your team is probably Hero/Cristo/Panon/Alena. Panon isn't needed to get the Magic Key, the dungeon isn't dangerous at all, but he's sort of on the way and he'll reliably win encounters with that mighty Sword of Lethargy.

The route I've come up with for Chapter 5 does not require anyone in the previous chapters to play in the casino, since you can get free coins in the tunnel in Chapter 5. Also, I'm planning on only making one trip to the Small Medal King area to get the Zenithian Armor and 2 Swords of Miracles.

My thoughts on a Chapter 3 route:

Segment 12

Get Medical Herb from first pot
Go to cave, get Chain Sickle, equip
Get an item drop on way back (Broad Sword/Half Plate)
Walk back until daytime, save

Segment 13

Get sold a Sword of Malice at the shop, leave early
Sell Clothes/other non-armor items, buy four Wings, save

Segment 14

Go to Bonmalmo (get Broad Sword/Half Plate drop in this segment)
Talk to Reed
Go to jail, give Wings to free Tom
Use Wings back to Lakanaba
Get Tov, save
Go to Foxville
Talk to coyote, get Full Plate Armor
Use Wings to Bonmalmo, talk to King
Use Wings back to Lakanaba
Return Tov, rest, save

Segment 15

Walk to Bonmalmo (get Broad Sword/Half Plate drop)
Go in at daytime, sell Full Plate for 3800+
Go out, go back in at night
Get Letter from Reed
Walk to Endor, rest to get daytime
Sell extra weapon (Chain Sickle, Broad Sword), buy two Wings
Give Letter to Mia, get Scroll
Use Wings to go to Bonmalmo
Give Scroll to King Bonmalmo
Sell armor
Use Wings to go to Endor
Hire Laurent, talk to the King, hire Strom, rearrange party, save

Segment 16

Go get Silver Statuette, get Wings in cave, get all treasure except Broad Sword (leave for Hero in chapter 5)
Wings to Bonmalmo
Buy wings, sell weapons
Sell armor to get to 10,000
Wings to Endor, sell statue, buy shop
Talk to Neta 5 times and pass five days
Leave, Strom and Laurent leave, reenter
Give up all equipment to Neta, save

Segment 17

Need 48,100 for 7 Broad Swords, 7 Half Plates, 7 SOM and 1 extra Half Plate (for Cristo in chapter 5)

7 Broads = 14,000
7 Half Plates = 8,400
7 SOM = 24,500
Half Plate = 1,200
8 AOV = 12,800

Get 20,000, buy 7 Half Plates @ Endor
Talk to King
Give up armor
Get 24,000, buy two Wings
Use Wings to go to Bonmalmo, buy 7 Broad Swords
Use Wings, back to Endor
Give up swords, get 60K
Two cycles of 8 AOV, get 86,150
Buy two Wings
Use Wings, go to Lakanaba
Buy 7 Swords of Malice
Use Wings, go to Endor, equip SOM
Go to cave, give 60K to old man
Exit and re-enter cave, talk to old man
Go in and out of casino
Buy Half Plate
Talk to Nela
Go to tunnel

My plan for chapter 5 centers on the final team (Hero/Ragnar/Cristo/Alena) and what their final equips will be:
Hero:
Sword of Lethargy/Sword of Miracles/Zenithian Sword (as needed)
Zenithian Armor
Zenithian Shield
Zenithian Helmet

Ragnar:
Sword of Miracles
Metal Babble Armor
Dragon Shield/Mirror Shield
Iron Mask

Cristo:
Sword of Miracles
Metal Babble Armor
Metal Babble Shield
Wooden Hat (he doesn't need a Hat of Happiness, in my runs through with him in my party, he was never near running out of MP)

Alena:
Stiletto Earrings
Dress of Radiance
Feather Hat

Of those equips, I only need to buy the Sword of Lethargy, the Stiletto Earrings, and the 2 Metal Babble Armors, everything else can be found. Getting 7 SOM's to sell from chapter 3 is essential to my ability to buy these equips as early as possible.

weeee, long post ahead!

[quote="ShinerCCC"]
Great times, CJ! I hope you're recording this run and planning to submit it? Hope you picked a female Hero and a good (short) name for her, she has the added advantage of wearing a Golden Barrette.
[/quote]

That is the plan. I took your suggestion and named her "CJ". Although, I don't think I will get a Golden Barrette, the extra defense is only 4 more over the Feather Hat.

[quote]
If you really want to start Taloon with Sword of Malice, you should probably do that segment before the ones I described so you don't have to Wing to Lakanaba later. You'll also get some wages from the boss, which you can spend on armor or Herbs (or no haggling for your clothes!) to save time in that first traveling segment.
[/quote]

I have another revised route through Chapter 3 so that I only need to get one Sword of Malice sold to me in the shop instead of two. I'll post it in a bit.

[quote]
Why use Mara in the test run? Does big damage in random encounters? Cristo's Defeat spell can serve a similar purpose, Ryverns are especially vulnerable to it. And he's usually a lot smarter in boss battles, and does pretty good damage with a Sword of Miracles. Giving him a Hat of Happiness in the trip through Aktemto Mines was instrumental in staying healed too, especially since I got poisoned at least two or three times on the way to Esturk. He can get that Hat a lot sooner now too, since I realized the fourth Sword of Miracles is given to you for free by Infurnus Shadow.
[/quote]

I was going this route since Mara has early access to Blazemore for the Keeleon and Balzack battles. But, if I can get an early Sword of Miracles for Cristo (which I will be able to do), he should be good to go.

[quote]
I also still need to test out how to end Chapter 3: how much gold is needed at the end of the feedback loop to fill the order and get a good start at the casino, and also what to give Taloon for ending gear. I think it's best to not use him and use Ragnar instead because Ragnar can use better gear, has more HP and is more consistent in delivering powerful attacks. He also reliably goes last with his low Agility so you can cope with his AI. This means Taloon's ending gear should be 7x Broad Sword and an Iron Apron (needs some defense so he can be a useful meat shield in the Shrine of Breaking Waves). Keep him in the back and have him appropriate a Sword of Malice or Sword of Miracles from one of the characters who died earlier. Speaking of that place, I would suggest this order of events for Chapter 5 after getting Alena: return to Endor, grab island Medal, add Haville and Keeleon to return list, sail up Aktemto and Seaside Village, learn about Panon, get Sword of Miracles, get Panon, get Magic Key, kill Keeleon and get Ragnar, then get Zenithian Armor and challenge Balzack 2. Keeleon is easy, especially with a Sword of Miracles and Panon keeping him under. Without Taloon, your team is probably Hero/Cristo/Panon/Alena. Panon isn't needed to get the Magic Key, the dungeon isn't dangerous at all, but he's sort of on the way and he'll reliably win encounters with that mighty Sword of Lethargy. 
[/quote]

The route I've come up with for Chapter 5 does not require anyone in the previous chapters to play in the casino, since you can get free coins in the tunnel in Chapter 5. Also, I'm planning on only making one trip to the Small Medal King area to get the Zenithian Armor and 2 Swords of Miracles.

My thoughts on a Chapter 3 route:

Segment 12

Get Medical Herb from first pot
Go to cave, get Chain Sickle, equip
Get an item drop on way back (Broad Sword/Half Plate)
Walk back until daytime, save

Segment 13

Get sold a Sword of Malice at the shop, leave early
Sell Clothes/other non-armor items, buy four Wings, save

Segment 14

Go to Bonmalmo (get Broad Sword/Half Plate drop in this segment)
Talk to Reed
Go to jail, give Wings to free Tom
Use Wings back to Lakanaba
Get Tov, save
Go to Foxville
Talk to coyote, get Full Plate Armor
Use Wings to Bonmalmo, talk to King
Use Wings back to Lakanaba
Return Tov, rest, save

Segment 15

Walk to Bonmalmo (get Broad Sword/Half Plate drop)
Go in at daytime, sell Full Plate for 3800+
Go out, go back in at night
Get Letter from Reed
Walk to Endor, rest to get daytime
Sell extra weapon (Chain Sickle, Broad Sword), buy two Wings
Give Letter to Mia, get Scroll
Use Wings to go to Bonmalmo
Give Scroll to King Bonmalmo
Sell armor
Use Wings to go to Endor
Hire Laurent, talk to the King, hire Strom, rearrange party, save

Segment 16

Go get Silver Statuette, get Wings in cave, get all treasure except Broad Sword (leave for Hero in chapter 5)
Wings to Bonmalmo
Buy wings, sell weapons
Sell armor to get to 10,000
Wings to Endor, sell statue, buy shop
Talk to Neta 5 times and pass five days
Leave, Strom and Laurent leave, reenter
Give up all equipment to Neta, save

Segment 17

Need 48,100 for 7 Broad Swords, 7 Half Plates, 7 SOM and 1 extra Half Plate (for Cristo in chapter 5)

7 Broads = 14,000
7 Half Plates = 8,400
7 SOM = 24,500
Half Plate = 1,200
8 AOV = 12,800

Get 20,000, buy 7 Half Plates @ Endor
Talk to King
Give up armor
Get 24,000, buy two Wings
Use Wings to go to Bonmalmo, buy 7 Broad Swords
Use Wings, back to Endor
Give up swords, get 60K
Two cycles of 8 AOV, get 86,150
Buy two Wings
Use Wings, go to Lakanaba
Buy 7 Swords of Malice
Use Wings, go to Endor, equip SOM
Go to cave, give 60K to old man
Exit and re-enter cave, talk to old man
Go in and out of casino
Buy Half Plate
Talk to Nela
Go to tunnel

My plan for chapter 5 centers on the final team (Hero/Ragnar/Cristo/Alena) and what their final equips will be:
Hero:
Sword of Lethargy/Sword of Miracles/Zenithian Sword (as needed)
Zenithian Armor
Zenithian Shield
Zenithian Helmet

Ragnar:
Sword of Miracles
Metal Babble Armor
Dragon Shield/Mirror Shield
Iron Mask

Cristo:
Sword of Miracles
Metal Babble Armor
Metal Babble Shield
Wooden Hat (he doesn't need a Hat of Happiness, in my runs through with him in my party, he was never near running out of MP)

Alena:
Stiletto Earrings
Dress of Radiance
Feather Hat

Of those equips, I only need to buy the Sword of Lethargy, the Stiletto Earrings, and the 2 Metal Babble Armors, everything else can be found. Getting 7 SOM's to sell from chapter 3 is essential to my ability to buy these equips as early as possible.

ShinerCCC

2010-04-20 02:35:23 am

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

Thanks for posting your segment plans so we can discuss routes. I have some criticisms, but hey, it's your run. After my finals I'll time my route versus your route through Chapter 3.

Quote:

I took your suggestion and named her "CJ". Although, I don't think I will get a Golden Barrette, the extra defense is only 4 more over the Feather Hat.

You'll have some cash to spare in Konenber anyway, and you'll need all the help you can get against Lighthouse Bengal...maybe. I bet Broad Sword over Iron Spear will make a huge difference in actually damaging those enemies. Otherwise you'll have to get lucky and rely on Expel, which has a dismal success rate in my experience with a save state prior to the fight. Wait, the Iron Helmet is right after that fight, and that's your headgear until Zenithian Helmet, might as well hold back until then.

Quote:

I was going this route since Mara has early access to Blazemore for the Keeleon and Balzack battles. But, if I can get an early Sword of Miracles for Cristo (which I will be able to do), he should be good to go.

Hmm, I guess my Mara was underleveled and didn't know Blazemore. Seems like a good way to do big damage and pierce boss regen though. If you're confident in using Mara, maybe use Hero/Ragnar/Cristo/Mara? Once Alena's strength gets pumped a little more her damage will vastly outpace Mara's, but that's not until after Balzack+.

Quote:

The route I've come up with for Chapter 5 does not require anyone in the previous chapters to play in the casino, since you can get free coins in the tunnel in Chapter 5. Also, I'm planning on only making one trip to the Small Medal King area to get the Zenithian Armor and 2 Swords of Miracles.

I should have given the coins giveaway a more serious thought, I was just too lazy to luck manipulate it lol. I don't have the TAS on hand but I think they give you 1000?
One trip to spend medals is doable...each Return walk out of Stancia will take several minutes because you tend to get into fights on land and they're kind of tough at first. Later on you can use Repel. It's just that the Sword of Miracles is such a massive power boost, and you can give it to Cristo to turn him from a good healer into a self-sufficient powerhouse, bringing up your team's total damage. But really, I'm not sure if the time it takes to go out there early on pays off in the short boss battle with Keeleon. After getting the Magic Key, you have access to up to 15 medals; this includes the two in the Gardenbur region and the two in the Shrine of Breaking Waves. Oh, I see...the plan is probably to rush Keeleon (he's easy) with CJ/Cristo/Alena/Mara, then add Ragnar and collect all the medals/other gear you need, then visit Stancia, get Panon, collect Zenithian Helm and sail to the Medal King. Genius!

Quote:

Segment 12

Get Medical Herb from first pot
Go to cave, get Chain Sickle, equip
Get an item drop on way back (Broad Sword/Half Plate)
Walk back until daytime, save

Can't the item drop be manipulated elsewhere? It's faster to just commit suicide, Taloon doesn't need any experience either because his guardsmen tank perfectly well.

Why the extra save in Segment 14? A typo? You probably won't need to rest either.

Quote:

Segment 15

Walk to Bonmalmo (get Broad Sword/Half Plate drop)
Go in at daytime, sell Full Plate for 3800+
Go out, go back in at night
Get Letter from Reed
Walk to Endor, rest to get daytime
Sell extra weapon (Chain Sickle, Broad Sword), buy two Wings
Give Letter to Mia, get Scroll
Use Wings to go to Bonmalmo
Give Scroll to King Bonmalmo
Sell armor
Use Wings to go to Endor
Hire Laurent, talk to the King, hire Strom, rearrange party, save

It sounds like you have to kill time after walking to Bonmalmo to wait for day to roll around, and then night again just to talk to Reed. Remove the rest and you can start your trip at nightfall instead. You could possibly grab an extra Lunch from Neta while returning Tov and use that to heal instead if you really want to.

But nevermind all that, this segment looks incredibly chaotic. First off, you're dedicated on manipulating a Broad Sword/Half Plate drop for money. Then you need even more luck to get a good haggle on the Full Plate Armor. Just try it, you often have to talk to the guy tons of times for a good price to pop up, this can cost minutes. I think it's smarter to find an excuse to save in Bonmalmo so you can start the segment, and if it's taking too long to haggle a good price, restart.

It also takes a long time to walk up Endor castle and talk to the king. Try to find an excuse to Wing from his throne room somewhere, maybe rearrange the segments a bit...after getting the Silver Statuette you could Wing to Endor, buy a replacement Wing, talk to the king, then Wing it to Bonmalmo...but that's a waste of 25 valuable gold.

Quote:

Segment 16

Go get Silver Statuette, get Wings in cave, get all treasure except Broad Sword (leave for Hero in chapter 5)
Wings to Bonmalmo
Buy wings, sell weapons
Sell armor to get to 10,000
Wings to Endor, sell statue, buy shop
Talk to Neta 5 times and pass five days
Leave, Strom and Laurent leave, reenter
Give up all equipment to Neta, save

You can get rid of Strom and Laurent partway through your shop cycling. I think the time spent negotiating with "who takes this item you just bought?" for a few days might be less than talking to Neta 5 times. Might save time to put Taloon in the front for better A mashing that way too.

Regarding the Half Plate for Cristo: are you not willing to overshoot the feedback loop too much or something? The Sword of Malice can be sold for 2625, you can buy two Half Plates for that much. Or do you just not need the extra cash? I guess it does save a small step because it's one more thing you don't have to sell.

Quote:

My plan for chapter 5 centers on the final team (Hero/Ragnar/Cristo/Alena) and what their final equips will be:
Hero:
Sword of Lethargy/Sword of Miracles/Zenithian Sword (as needed)
Zenithian Armor
Zenithian Shield
Zenithian Helmet

Ragnar:
Sword of Miracles
Metal Babble Armor
Dragon Shield/Mirror Shield
Iron Mask

Cristo:
Sword of Miracles
Metal Babble Armor
Metal Babble Shield
Wooden Hat (he doesn't need a Hat of Happiness, in my runs through with him in my party, he was never near running out of MP)

Alena:
Stiletto Earrings
Dress of Radiance
Feather Hat

Buying a Sword of Lethargy...good decision, I had lots of money to kick around later on and this makes Panon obsolete. The Zenithian Sword only has 10 points more attack power than the Sword of Miracles, and this doesn't offset the amazingly useful healing power to me. But it's essential to keep in the Hero's inventory, along with the Sword of Decimation, for its useful utility power. Wait, I just remembered, Bounce doesn't prevent psuedo-spell effects such as the Staff of Thunder or Sword of Decimation. Clear Necrosaro's Bounce if you want to cast Sap or Blazemore on him or something, but you'll need it for the armless phase when he likes to cast Increase on himself.

Metal Babble Armor is a bad decision IMO. The Sacred Robe helps Cristo survive Balzack+, this can be replaced later. And Ragnar's Dragon Mail/Demon Armor is essential for surviving Necrosaro's breath weapons. Yes, Demon Armor has breath resist. It's also a lot of money, while there's a lot to go around at the end I don't think this armour is worth the cost. A few defense points are meaningless when Cristo can cast Increase and make your defense shoot up really high. This is different against Necrosaro because the freezing waves will get rid of Increase (and your Transform into Cristo because the stupid bastard never uses it), you WANT him to do freezing waves a lot regardless because it's a wasted move for him. The breath weapons are more likely to hit than a physical attack as well; ~100 damage to one person is a much better scenario than ~60 to everyone (total of 240...but the Sage's Stone counteracts this well). Metal Babble Armor would help a lot more against Balzack+ because his physical attacks hurt a lot, but I've been able to get Cristo to cast Increase/Upper by selecting certain tactics. On Defensive he might use Upper before anyone gets hurt, but I find the better tactic is Try Out because it will encourage everyone to activate their Metal Babble Shields, or Cristo to cast Increase (he probably hasn't used it yet, ever). Alternatively, you could go with Swordedge Armor to have that slight chance of reflecting some damage, but that's only if it turns out it works for Metal Babble grinding...lol

I'm not sure if Dragon Shield and Dragon Mail/Demon Armor stack for some kind of super breath resist. I think they might, I'll have to check. If they do, Ragnar will be instrumental in beating Necrosaro at a low level.

Dress of Radiance has good defense and is very useful against Radimvice and Infurnus Shadow. But it's less useful against Necrosaro, the only part that matters is the final form because you can take it easy against his early, easier forms. His spells don't hit very hard at all, the real problem is breath weapons. All that can happen there is Increases and Healalls bouncing off when you need them to connect. Switch back to Robe of Serenity for Necrosaro. Also, while it won't make much difference, the Golden Barrette's cost of 540 is peanuts by the time you get Alena on your team. Wait, where does she get the Feather Hat? You sold it in Chapter 2 =P

Wow, that's a lot of criticism. The CCC stands for cheesejerk.

Thanks for posting your segment plans so we can discuss routes. I have some criticisms, but hey, it's your run. After my finals I'll time my route versus your route through Chapter 3.

[quote]I took your suggestion and named her "CJ". Although, I don't think I will get a Golden Barrette, the extra defense is only 4 more over the Feather Hat.[/quote]

You'll have some cash to spare in Konenber anyway, and you'll need all the help you can get against Lighthouse Bengal...maybe. I bet Broad Sword over Iron Spear will make a huge difference in actually damaging those enemies. Otherwise you'll have to get lucky and rely on Expel, which has a dismal success rate in my experience with a save state prior to the fight. Wait, the Iron Helmet is right after that fight, and that's your headgear until Zenithian Helmet, might as well hold back until then.

[quote]I was going this route since Mara has early access to Blazemore for the Keeleon and Balzack battles. But, if I can get an early Sword of Miracles for Cristo (which I will be able to do), he should be good to go.[/quote]

Hmm, I guess my Mara was underleveled and didn't know Blazemore. Seems like a good way to do big damage and pierce boss regen though. If you're confident in using Mara, maybe use Hero/Ragnar/Cristo/Mara? Once Alena's strength gets pumped a little more her damage will vastly outpace Mara's, but that's not until after Balzack+.

[quote]The route I've come up with for Chapter 5 does not require anyone in the previous chapters to play in the casino, since you can get free coins in the tunnel in Chapter 5. Also, I'm planning on only making one trip to the Small Medal King area to get the Zenithian Armor and 2 Swords of Miracles.[/quote]

I should have given the coins giveaway a more serious thought, I was just too lazy to luck manipulate it lol. I don't have the TAS on hand but I think they give you 1000?
One trip to spend medals is doable...each Return walk out of Stancia will take several minutes because you tend to get into fights on land and they're kind of tough at first. Later on you can use Repel. It's just that the Sword of Miracles is such a massive power boost, and you can give it to Cristo to turn him from a good healer into a self-sufficient powerhouse, bringing up your team's total damage. But really, I'm not sure if the time it takes to go out there early on pays off in the short boss battle with Keeleon. After getting the Magic Key, you have access to up to 15 medals; this includes the two in the Gardenbur region and the two in the Shrine of Breaking Waves. Oh, I see...the plan is probably to rush Keeleon (he's easy) with CJ/Cristo/Alena/Mara, then add Ragnar and collect all the medals/other gear you need, then visit Stancia, get Panon, collect Zenithian Helm and sail to the Medal King. Genius!

[quote]Segment 12

Get Medical Herb from first pot
Go to cave, get Chain Sickle, equip
Get an item drop on way back (Broad Sword/Half Plate)
Walk back until daytime, save[/quote]

Can't the item drop be manipulated elsewhere? It's faster to just commit suicide, Taloon doesn't need any experience either because his guardsmen tank perfectly well.

Why the extra save in Segment 14? A typo? You probably won't need to rest either.

[quote]Segment 15

Walk to Bonmalmo (get Broad Sword/Half Plate drop)
Go in at daytime, sell Full Plate for 3800+
Go out, go back in at night
Get Letter from Reed
Walk to Endor, rest to get daytime
Sell extra weapon (Chain Sickle, Broad Sword), buy two Wings
Give Letter to Mia, get Scroll
Use Wings to go to Bonmalmo
Give Scroll to King Bonmalmo
Sell armor
Use Wings to go to Endor
Hire Laurent, talk to the King, hire Strom, rearrange party, save[/quote]

It sounds like you have to kill time after walking to Bonmalmo to wait for day to roll around, and then night again just to talk to Reed. Remove the rest and you can start your trip at nightfall instead. You could possibly grab an extra Lunch from Neta while returning Tov and use that to heal instead if you really want to.

But nevermind all that, this segment looks incredibly chaotic. First off, you're dedicated on manipulating a Broad Sword/Half Plate drop for money. Then you need even more luck to get a good haggle on the Full Plate Armor. Just try it, you often have to talk to the guy tons of times for a good price to pop up, this can cost minutes. I think it's smarter to find an excuse to save in Bonmalmo so you can start the segment, and if it's taking too long to haggle a good price, restart.

It also takes a long time to walk up Endor castle and talk to the king. Try to find an excuse to Wing from his throne room somewhere, maybe rearrange the segments a bit...after getting the Silver Statuette you could Wing to Endor, buy a replacement Wing, talk to the king, then Wing it to Bonmalmo...but that's a waste of 25 valuable gold.

[quote]Segment 16

Go get Silver Statuette, get Wings in cave, get all treasure except Broad Sword (leave for Hero in chapter 5)
Wings to Bonmalmo
Buy wings, sell weapons
Sell armor to get to 10,000
Wings to Endor, sell statue, buy shop
Talk to Neta 5 times and pass five days
Leave, Strom and Laurent leave, reenter
Give up all equipment to Neta, save[/quote]

You can get rid of Strom and Laurent partway through your shop cycling. I think the time spent negotiating with "who takes this item you just bought?" for a few days might be less than talking to Neta 5 times. Might save time to put Taloon in the front for better A mashing that way too.

Regarding the Half Plate for Cristo: are you not willing to overshoot the feedback loop too much or something? The Sword of Malice can be sold for 2625, you can buy two Half Plates for that much. Or do you just not need the extra cash? I guess it does save a small step because it's one more thing you don't have to sell.

[quote]My plan for chapter 5 centers on the final team (Hero/Ragnar/Cristo/Alena) and what their final equips will be:
Hero:
Sword of Lethargy/Sword of Miracles/Zenithian Sword (as needed)
Zenithian Armor
Zenithian Shield
Zenithian Helmet

Ragnar:
Sword of Miracles
Metal Babble Armor
Dragon Shield/Mirror Shield
Iron Mask

Cristo:
Sword of Miracles
Metal Babble Armor
Metal Babble Shield
Wooden Hat (he doesn't need a Hat of Happiness, in my runs through with him in my party, he was never near running out of MP)

Alena:
Stiletto Earrings
Dress of Radiance
Feather Hat[/quote]

Buying a Sword of Lethargy...good decision, I had lots of money to kick around later on and this makes Panon obsolete. The Zenithian Sword only has 10 points more attack power than the Sword of Miracles, and this doesn't offset the amazingly useful healing power to me. But it's essential to keep in the Hero's inventory, along with the Sword of Decimation, for its useful utility power. Wait, I just remembered, Bounce doesn't prevent psuedo-spell effects such as the Staff of Thunder or Sword of Decimation. Clear Necrosaro's Bounce if you want to cast Sap or Blazemore on him or something, but you'll need it for the armless phase when he likes to cast Increase on himself.

Metal Babble Armor is a bad decision IMO. The Sacred Robe helps Cristo survive Balzack+, this can be replaced later. And Ragnar's Dragon Mail/Demon Armor is essential for surviving Necrosaro's breath weapons. Yes, Demon Armor has breath resist. It's also a lot of money, while there's a lot to go around at the end I don't think this armour is worth the cost. A few defense points are meaningless when Cristo can cast Increase and make your defense shoot up really high. This is different against Necrosaro because the freezing waves will get rid of Increase (and your Transform into Cristo because the stupid bastard never uses it), you WANT him to do freezing waves a lot regardless because it's a wasted move for him. The breath weapons are more likely to hit than a physical attack as well; ~100 damage to one person is a much better scenario than ~60 to everyone (total of 240...but the Sage's Stone counteracts this well). Metal Babble Armor would help a lot more against Balzack+ because his physical attacks hurt a lot, but I've been able to get Cristo to cast Increase/Upper by selecting certain tactics. On Defensive he might use Upper before anyone gets hurt, but I find the better tactic is Try Out because it will encourage everyone to activate their Metal Babble Shields, or Cristo to cast Increase (he probably hasn't used it yet, ever). Alternatively, you could go with Swordedge Armor to have that slight chance of reflecting some damage, but that's only if it turns out it works for Metal Babble grinding...lol

I'm not sure if Dragon Shield and Dragon Mail/Demon Armor stack for some kind of super breath resist. I think they might, I'll have to check. If they do, Ragnar will be instrumental in beating Necrosaro at a low level.

Dress of Radiance has good defense and is very useful against Radimvice and Infurnus Shadow. But it's less useful against Necrosaro, the only part that matters is the final form because you can take it easy against his early, easier forms. His spells don't hit very hard at all, the real problem is breath weapons. All that can happen there is Increases and Healalls bouncing off when you need them to connect. Switch back to Robe of Serenity for Necrosaro. Also, while it won't make much difference, the Golden Barrette's cost of 540 is peanuts by the time you get Alena on your team. Wait, where does she get the Feather Hat? You sold it in Chapter 2 =P

Wow, that's a lot of criticism. The CCC stands for cheesejerk.

chessjerk

2010-04-20 06:45:42 am

Re: Golden Barette/Iron Helmet

I still don't think they are worth it. In my practice runs I never got them and never noticed the difference.

Now that I think of it, there is actually a Golden Barette in a treasure chest on the top floor of the tower. If I really need one, I'll grab that one (maybe just to sell?).

Re: Using Expel in the lighthouse

It actually worked pretty decently for me. On Offensive tactics, Nara uses Sleep and Mara uses Bang to slowly whittle down the enemies. If I can Expel one Flamer and Nara Sleeps the other, the battle is practically won.

Re: Using Mara

My memory is faulty. I needed to go Metal Babble hunting in the shrine to get Blazemore for Mara before Keeleon. My new route through chapter 5 may not need any leveling at all. My plan for all the bosses (except Esturk) is to hit them with the Sword of Lethargy and sleep them (it works on ALL of them!).

Re: Coins in the tunnel

The prize is 2000 coins.

Re: Small medals

Actually, my plan for that part goes like this at the moment:

(after saving Cristo, already have 2 medals from Konenbur)

Return to Mintos
Sail to riverton, get medal
Sail to monbaraba
Sail to haville
Walk to keeleon
Rest at Kievs if needed
Walk to cave, get magic key, one medal
Return to soretta, rest, save

Return to haville (is endor closer?)
Sail to island, one medal
Sail to aktemto
Sail to seaside, one medal
Sail to santeem
Sail to stancia, party: taloon only, suicide him
Get 2 medals in the castle, talk to old man
Return to monbaraba, get panon
Party: Cristo/Hero/Panon/Alena
Return to Endor at night, (use lamp of darkness if necessary) get Leotard/one medal from King's room
Sell stuff (need 30,500) buy Babble Armor
Return to Soretta, rest, save

Return to Konenbur, sail to rosaville
Buy Lethargy and Stilleto
Sail to cave, get 1 medal and Zenithian armor
Sail to king, get 2 swords of miracles (hero/cristo)
Return to soretta, rest, save

Return to keeleon, kill keeleon
Return to stancia, get zenithian helm
Party: Hero/Cristo/Ragnar/Alena
Hero: Lethargy/Zenithian/Scale/Zenithian
Cristo: Miracles/Babble/Babble/Wooden
Ragnar: Miracles/Full/Scale/none
Alena: Stiletto/Leotard/Feather
Return to santeem, kill balzack
Return to monbaraba, rest

Crazy? Maybe. Although if I don't get Metal Babble Armor (see below), I'll have to revise this.

Re: Segment 12

I thought it would be easier to just manipulate one item drop per segment than to try to manipulate a whole bunch all at once. Making more than one trip to the Statue cave takes too much time, IMO.

Re: Segment 14

Yeah, that extra save is a typo, no idea how that got there.

Re: Segment 15

Walking from Lakanaba to Bonmalmo, it is still day, so I go in to sell the Full Plate quickly for a high price. Walking around to get night to fall doesn't take too much time. Or, what you're saying is at the end of Segment 14, I should rest, return Tov, then walk to Bonmalmo and save there? That's not a bad idea, start the segment and the first thing I do is sell the armor and walk around a little for night to fall. I think I will do that.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say about doing all these things in Segment 15. Reed gives you the letter, walk to Endor, rest to get daytime so you can give the letter to Mia. Use wings in the throne room to go back to Bonmalmo, give the King the Royal Scroll, sell any remaining armor (probably don't have any), Wings back to Endor, hire Laurent (he's closest to the front of town), talk to the King (who gives you permission to buy a shop), hire Strom last (he's near the House of Healing), then save. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Re: Getting rid of Strom and Laurent early

I would have to time it exactly to make sure. It takes about 45 seconds to rest five times and walk out of town. I would lose about 3 seconds per item purchase for the first 5 days. Meh, it's close.

Re: Getting a Half Plate for Cristo

I can't replace the Half Plate with a SOM simply because if I buy 8 SOM's, then I have to walk back from Lakanaba to Endor, since I have no room for Wings. However, I can buy a Half Plate in Endor right before the chapter ends, then give it to Cristo when he recovers in chapter 5.

Re: Zenithian Sword

Oh I plan to keep it around, but like you said, its only real uses are to enter the tower to Zenithia and to remove effects from the enemy. I always plan to use the Sword of Miracles for random fights and the Sword of Lethargy for boss-sleeping.

Re: Getting Cristo to use Increase

I've had more luck in the past not getting Cristo to use Increase and just letting him attack for high damage while the Hero keeps the bosses sleeping. If the bosses are sleeping, they can't hit you. Smiley

Re: Metal Babble Armor vs. breath resistance

I suppose you're right. I guess I can pick up Sacred Robe at Seaside Village and Dragon Mail at...Riverton, I think? Maybe I'll never buy Metal Babble Armor at all. I have no idea if Dragon Armor/Shield stack, I'll have to check.

Re: Alena at the end

You are correct, I was planning on switching her armor for the Necrosaro battle (to a Pink Leotard, I guess). I never pick up the Robe of Serenity, I wonder if I should get that instead of the Pink Leotard? They are both kinda out of the way...

Oh, and of course Alena gets a Feather Hat. I have three of them (Hero finds in hometown, Mara and Nara each have one and they aren't fighting). Smiley

Re: Golden Barette/Iron Helmet

I still don't think they are worth it. In my practice runs I never got them and never noticed the difference.

Now that I think of it, there is actually a Golden Barette in a treasure chest on the top floor of the tower. If I really need one, I'll grab that one (maybe just to sell?).

Re: Using Expel in the lighthouse

It actually worked pretty decently for me. On Offensive tactics, Nara uses Sleep and Mara uses Bang to slowly whittle down the enemies. If I can Expel one Flamer and Nara Sleeps the other, the battle is practically won.

Re: Using Mara

My memory is faulty. I needed to go Metal Babble hunting in the shrine to get Blazemore for Mara before Keeleon. My new route through chapter 5 may not need any leveling at all. My plan for all the bosses (except Esturk) is to hit them with the Sword of Lethargy and sleep them (it works on ALL of them!).

Re: Coins in the tunnel

The prize is 2000 coins.

Re: Small medals

Actually, my plan for that part goes like this at the moment:

(after saving Cristo, already have 2 medals from Konenbur)

Return to Mintos
Sail to riverton, get medal
Sail to monbaraba
Sail to haville
Walk to keeleon
Rest at Kievs if needed
Walk to cave, get magic key, one medal
Return to soretta, rest, save

Return to haville (is endor closer?)
Sail to island, one medal
Sail to aktemto
Sail to seaside, one medal
Sail to santeem
Sail to stancia, party: taloon only, suicide him
Get 2 medals in the castle, talk to old man
Return to monbaraba, get panon
Party: Cristo/Hero/Panon/Alena
Return to Endor at night, (use lamp of darkness if necessary) get Leotard/one medal from King's room
Sell stuff (need 30,500) buy Babble Armor
Return to Soretta, rest, save

Return to Konenbur, sail to rosaville
Buy Lethargy and Stilleto
Sail to cave, get 1 medal and Zenithian armor
Sail to king, get 2 swords of miracles (hero/cristo)
Return to soretta, rest, save

Return to keeleon, kill keeleon
Return to stancia, get zenithian helm
Party: Hero/Cristo/Ragnar/Alena
Hero: Lethargy/Zenithian/Scale/Zenithian
Cristo: Miracles/Babble/Babble/Wooden
Ragnar: Miracles/Full/Scale/none
Alena: Stiletto/Leotard/Feather
Return to santeem, kill balzack
Return to monbaraba, rest

Crazy? Maybe. Although if I don't get Metal Babble Armor (see below), I'll have to revise this.

Re: Segment 12

I thought it would be easier to just manipulate one item drop per segment than to try to manipulate a whole bunch all at once. Making more than one trip to the Statue cave takes too much time, IMO.

Re: Segment 14

Yeah, that extra save is a typo, no idea how that got there.

Re: Segment 15

Walking from Lakanaba to Bonmalmo, it is still day, so I go in to sell the Full Plate quickly for a high price. Walking around to get night to fall doesn't take too much time. Or, what you're saying is at the end of Segment 14, I should rest, return Tov, then walk to Bonmalmo and save there? That's not a bad idea, start the segment and the first thing I do is sell the armor and walk around a little for night to fall. I think I will do that.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say about doing all these things in Segment 15. Reed gives you the letter, walk to Endor, rest to get daytime so you can give the letter to Mia. Use wings in the throne room to go back to Bonmalmo, give the King the Royal Scroll, sell any remaining armor (probably don't have any), Wings back to Endor, hire Laurent (he's closest to the front of town), talk to the King (who gives you permission to buy a shop), hire Strom last (he's near the House of Healing), then save. Seems perfectly reasonable to me.

Re: Getting rid of Strom and Laurent early

I would have to time it exactly to make sure. It takes about 45 seconds to rest five times and walk out of town. I would lose about 3 seconds per item purchase for the first 5 days. Meh, it's close.

Re: Getting a Half Plate for Cristo

I can't replace the Half Plate with a SOM simply because if I buy 8 SOM's, then I have to walk back from Lakanaba to Endor, since I have no room for Wings. However, I can buy a Half Plate in Endor right before the chapter ends, then give it to Cristo when he recovers in chapter 5.

Re: Zenithian Sword

Oh I plan to keep it around, but like you said, its only real uses are to enter the tower to Zenithia and to remove effects from the enemy. I always plan to use the Sword of Miracles for random fights and the Sword of Lethargy for boss-sleeping.

Re: Getting Cristo to use Increase

I've had more luck in the past not getting Cristo to use Increase and just letting him attack for high damage while the Hero keeps the bosses sleeping. If the bosses are sleeping, they can't hit you. :)

Re: Metal Babble Armor vs. breath resistance

I suppose you're right. I guess I can pick up Sacred Robe at Seaside Village and Dragon Mail at...Riverton, I think? Maybe I'll never buy Metal Babble Armor at all. I have no idea if Dragon Armor/Shield stack, I'll have to check.

Re: Alena at the end

You are correct, I was planning on switching her armor for the Necrosaro battle (to a Pink Leotard, I guess). I never pick up the Robe of Serenity, I wonder if I should get that instead of the Pink Leotard? They are both kinda out of the way...

Oh, and of course Alena gets a Feather Hat. I have three of them (Hero finds in hometown, Mara and Nara each have one and they aren't fighting). :)

FionordeQuester

2010-04-20 01:05:52 pm

One question, Chessjerk, Shiner, when do you guys run away from enemy encounters, and when do you guys decide to fight?

ShinerCCC

2010-04-20 04:28:16 pm

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

I also forgot to mention I was going to skip giving Taloon a weapon at all in my updated Chapter 3 route. But it looks like you're going to count on drops for easy money. Nothing wrong with that in a segmented run, no sir.

Sacred Robe is also sold in Riverton. You can pick up the Small Medal, Sacred Robe and Dragon Mail while you're there all in one trip, you'll definitely have the cash after selling off Taloon's stuff. As an added bonus, the Dragon Mail will reduce the damage Ragnar takes from that freezing wind breath by 1 or 2 points. OMG SO GOOD

Why suicide Taloon? You don't want to sit through his levelups? While I may have blasted his occasional uselessness, it's still nice to have him around for the Shrine of Breaking Waves and the final battle as an extra team member. He can still hit almost as hard as Ragnar and some of his special abilities are very handy.

Ragnar should still have his Wooden Hat from Chapter 1 equipped. (;

For Alena's Feather Hat, borrowing one from Mara is a good idea, but you'll probably sell the one Celia left behind to buy some quick gear for CJ. The Scale Shield is a hand-me-down, of course. Wait, if you can bring a Half Plate from Chapter 4 and leave the Broad Sword from Chapter 3 in the cave, that 210 is only going to be converted into a Wooden Hat. Which WILL help in the Cave of Betrayal, btw.

Actually after grabbing the Robe of Serenity I didn't find it terribly helpful either...it's a substantial upgrade from Alena's Chain Mail. But you can just as easily have her wear the Pink Leotard for Balzack+ and then sell it after.

Using Sword of Lethargy is a marvelous idea. I didn't consider it because I figured the Sword of Miracles was practically free and had more attack power, and I didn't have money to spare early on either. Since defense in this game has diminishing returns, the Zenithian Helm will have limited usefulness vs Balzack+. (if you're wondering why I'm so convinced about diminishing returns of defense power, I'm assuming damage is calculated in a similar way to DW3; I did a solo hero playthrough until I got stuck at Baramos and discovered he could wear the Noh Mask with no drawbacks except being unable to cast spells in the field, and it cranks his defense beyond 300, enemies could still deal small ranges of damage to me and stronger enemies still had noticeably stronger attacks) Maybe you could use Hero/Ragnar/Cristo/Panon, and have double chances of putting him to sleep? Panon can't use a Metal Babble Shield, but if you're doing well at keeping Balzack+ under then you're winning already...or, if you're overleveled somehow, just have CJ cast Fendspell on him and then he'll die more slowly unless you bring Medical Herbs.

FQ, in my test run I fought nearly everything. The only exceptions were the Shrine of Breaking Waves, I ran from over half of my enemies, and going to Stancia early. I also ran in Necrosaro's Palace a lot because BTB's guide said you could run from everything in there 100% of the time but that's a lie. Running away seems to have a higher success rate later on in the game though, so it's probably some computation involving Agility. Speaking of Agility, I don't think Meteorite Armbands are necessary...maybe for Hero and Cristo so they can heal fast and swing with Sword of Miracles/Lethargy first but that's it. It's just another item for your stupid allies to tinker with when you use Try Out. But yeah, I fight everything to raise my levels. You'll need all the levels you can get versus Necrosaro, and if Nara somehow reaches level 29 and learns Barrier that would make it a bit easier, but this speedrun probably won't.

Just wanted to remind you that Demon Armor has no drawback. The curse reduces Ragnar's agility to 0 but he already has the lowest by far. Attacking last makes his AI easier to guess so you don't waste attacks.

I like your current route chessjerk. I'll have to revise pretty much all of my savestates though, lol

I also forgot to mention I was going to skip giving Taloon a weapon at all in my updated Chapter 3 route. But it looks like you're going to count on drops for easy money. Nothing wrong with that in a segmented run, no sir.

Sacred Robe is also sold in Riverton. You can pick up the Small Medal, Sacred Robe and Dragon Mail while you're there all in one trip, you'll definitely have the cash after selling off Taloon's stuff. As an added bonus, the Dragon Mail will reduce the damage Ragnar takes from that freezing wind breath by 1 or 2 points. OMG SO GOOD

Why suicide Taloon? You don't want to sit through his levelups? While I may have blasted his occasional uselessness, it's still nice to have him around for the Shrine of Breaking Waves and the final battle as an extra team member. He can still hit almost as hard as Ragnar and some of his special abilities are very handy.

Ragnar should still have his Wooden Hat from Chapter 1 equipped. (;

For Alena's Feather Hat, borrowing one from Mara is a good idea, but you'll probably sell the one Celia left behind to buy some quick gear for CJ. The Scale Shield is a hand-me-down, of course. Wait, if you can bring a Half Plate from Chapter 4 and leave the Broad Sword from Chapter 3 in the cave, that 210 is only going to be converted into a Wooden Hat. Which WILL help in the Cave of Betrayal, btw.

Actually after grabbing the Robe of Serenity I didn't find it terribly helpful either...it's a substantial upgrade from Alena's Chain Mail. But you can just as easily have her wear the Pink Leotard for Balzack+ and then sell it after.

Using Sword of Lethargy is a marvelous idea. I didn't consider it because I figured the Sword of Miracles was practically free and had more attack power, and I didn't have money to spare early on either. Since defense in this game has diminishing returns, the Zenithian Helm will have limited usefulness vs Balzack+. (if you're wondering why I'm so convinced about diminishing returns of defense power, I'm assuming damage is calculated in a similar way to DW3; I did a solo hero playthrough until I got stuck at Baramos and discovered he could wear the Noh Mask with no drawbacks except being unable to cast spells in the field, and it cranks his defense beyond 300, enemies could still deal small ranges of damage to me and stronger enemies still had noticeably stronger attacks) Maybe you could use Hero/Ragnar/Cristo/Panon, and have double chances of putting him to sleep? Panon can't use a Metal Babble Shield, but if you're doing well at keeping Balzack+ under then you're winning already...or, if you're overleveled somehow, just have CJ cast Fendspell on him and then he'll die more slowly unless you bring Medical Herbs.

FQ, in my test run I fought nearly everything. The only exceptions were the Shrine of Breaking Waves, I ran from over half of my enemies, and going to Stancia early. I also ran in Necrosaro's Palace a lot because BTB's guide said you could run from everything in there 100% of the time but that's a lie. Running away seems to have a higher success rate later on in the game though, so it's probably some computation involving Agility. Speaking of Agility, I don't think Meteorite Armbands are necessary...maybe for Hero and Cristo so they can heal fast and swing with Sword of Miracles/Lethargy first but that's it. It's just another item for your stupid allies to tinker with when you use Try Out. But yeah, I fight everything to raise my levels. You'll need all the levels you can get versus Necrosaro, and if Nara somehow reaches level 29 and learns Barrier that would make it a bit easier, but this speedrun probably won't.

Just wanted to remind you that Demon Armor has no drawback. The curse reduces Ragnar's agility to 0 but he already has the lowest by far. Attacking last makes his AI easier to guess so you don't waste attacks.

I like your current route chessjerk. I'll have to revise pretty much all of my savestates though, lol

FionordeQuester

2010-04-20 06:59:50 pm

How were you guys able to beat all the enemies in Birdsong without dieing then? They're very powerful, so I have a hard time imagining you guys being able to beat them consistently without dieing.

ShinerCCC

2010-04-20 07:55:03 pm

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

Oops, I forgot about what an unpleasant experience Chapter 2 was. Yeah, after beating the Chameleon Humanoid boss in Tempe, I ran from everything until I got to Endor. EVERYTHING. For single segment that will have to be adjusted somehow...

And of course I also ran from everything in the final tower in Chapter 1. Having good armour but a Copper Sword is no way to fight those enemies.

FionordeQuester

2010-04-20 08:03:28 pm

Eh, I think fighting monsters is possible up until the trip to the Birdsong, but after that, it's almost with any monster group above 2. In my experience, you need Level 9 and all the great defensive gear (besides the Bronze Armor for Cristo) just to get through it smoothly.

chessjerk

2010-04-20 08:52:01 pm

Yes, pretty much what Shiner said. In chapter 1, I run from everything in the cave on the way to Healie, then again in the tower down to the Sword of Malice. In chapter 2, I run from everything after the Tempe boss battle, all the way to Endor. In chapter 3, early on when Taloon is alone against multiple enemies, I run. In chapter 4, I run from everything in the cave on the way to Orin. In chapter 5, I generally only run from large groups of enemies with attacks that hurt everyone at once (Chillanodons and Blizags come to mind).

About Taloon, I decided that since I really have no need for him, I did not want to sit through his level ups if I didn't have to. In the Shrine, I plan to run from everything anyway. Since I don't plan on picking up the Baron's Horn, he wouldn't be available for the final battle anyway.

Ragnar lost his Wooden Hat in the massive sell-off to afford the Half Plate in chapter 1. Sad

He gets an Iron Mask right away anyway.

Your discussion about the diminishing returns on defense does seem to be true. That is my main motivation to avoid small upgrades to equipment (Golden Barette, Iron Helmet, etc.) and focus on only buying equips that will truly help me in the long run.

I've given some more thought to the chapter 5 route. Here's my current idea (through Gardenbur):

Get Feather Hat
Get gold and armor from shack
Get 2000 coins, equip armor
Sell Clothes, Leather Armor from Hero
Get Nara
Move Half Plate and Scale Shield to Hero
Save

Get 100,000 coins in casino poker
Get Mara
Get 2 Metal Babble Shields (Nara/Mara)
Reorganize party: Mara/Nara/Hero, reequip all
Mara: Venom/Silk/Babble/Feather
Nara: Venom/Silk/Babble/Feather, Boarding Pass, Copper Sword
Hero: Copper/Half/Scale/Leather, Feather Hat
Save

(Mara and Nara both get Venomous Daggers for hopeful paralyzing of a Metal Slime in the statue cave)

Go to statue cave
Kill a metal slime on bottom floor
Get Broad Sword for Hero, equip
Outside, return to Branca, rest, save

(Getting a Metal Slime kill here makes the Symbol of Faith cave extremely easy, also, I found you DON'T need to visit Branca to get it on the Return list, it will be there no matter what.)

Go to cave, heal Hero before losing girls
Get Symbol of Faith
Return to Branca
Move Symbol to Nara
Party: Mara/Nara/Hero
Get wagon
Go to Konenbur, rest, get 2 Small Medals, save

Go to tower
Kill a metal slime if possible
Get Fire of Serenity
Kill boss (bang/sleep/expel)
Return to Konenbur, get Taloon
Party: Mara/Nara/Hero/Taloon
Move one SOM from Taloon to Mara/Nara/Hero, equip on Hero
Sail to Mintos, rest, get Small Medal, save

Walk to shrine, get Small Medal
Walk to Soretta
Walk to cave, get Padequia Seed, Outside
Return to Soretta, rest for daytime, get Padequia Root
Return to Mintos, get Alena’s party
Move Mara’s SOM and Babble Shield to Cristo
Move Nara’s Babble Shield to Hero
Move Hero’s Feather Hat to Alena
Move Alena’s Wooden Hat to Cristo
Sell Nara’s stuff (Venom, Silk, Feather, SOM)
Sell Mara’s stuff (Venom, Silk, Feather)
Sell 3 of Taloon’s SOM’s except for the equipped one
Reequip Alena/Cristo
Party: Brey/Mara/Nara
Return to Soretta, suicide
Party: Hero/Cristo/Taloon/Alena
Hero: SOM/Half/Scale/Leather
Cristo: Copper/Wayfarer/Babble/Wooden, SOM
Taloon: SOM/Iron/none/none
Alena: Iron/Chain/Feather, Thief Key
Save

(I changed my mind again, and will buy 7 SOM's and an Iron Apron for Taloon in chapter 3. Cristo doesn't need the Half Plate now, since I will get him a Sacred Robe in the next segment. Also, I kill off the characters I won't be using to avoid watching their level up gains.)

Return to Mintos
Sail to Riverton, buy Dragon Mail for Hero, buy Sacred Robe for Cristo, get Small Medal
Reequip Hero and Cristo
Sail to Monbaraba
Sail to Kievs, rest, sell Leather Hat, buy Iron Mask for Hero, reequip
Walk to cave, get magic key, one Small Medal, Outside
Return to Endor at night, get Pink Leotard (Alena), Small Medal
Return to Soretta, rest, save

(I changed my mind here, too, deciding to go from Monbaraba to Kievs to the Magic Key instead of going to Haville first. I figure I can go to Haville in the next segment.)

Return to Endor
Sail to island, one Small Medal
Sail to Haville
Sail to Aktemto
Sail to Seaside, (rest for daytime?) one Small Medal
Sail to Santeem
Sail to Stancia
Party: Taloon only, suicide
Get 2 Small Medals
Return to Monbaraba, get Panon
Party: Hero/Cristo/Panon/Alena
Return to Soretta, rest, save

(Taloon is not needed by the end of this segment, so he is sacrificed for the greater good.)

Return to Konenbur, sail to Rosaville
Buy Sword of Lethargy (Hero) and Stiletto Earrings (Alena), equip both
Sail to cave, get 1 Small Medal and Zenithian Armor
Sail to king, get 2 Swords of Miracles (Hero/Cristo), equip
Return to Soretta, rest, save

Return to Keeleon, kill Keeleon
Return to Stancia, party: Panon/Hero, get Zenithian Helm
Party: Hero/Ragnar/Cristo/Alena
Move Sword of Miracles, Dragon Mail and Iron Mask from Hero to Ragnar
Hero: Lethargy/Zenithian/Scale/Zenithian
Cristo: Miracles/Sacred/Babble/Wooden
Ragnar: Miracles/Dragon/Scale/Mask
Alena: Stiletto/Leotard/Feather
Return to Soretta, rest, save

(I also decided to split up the Keeleon and Balzack fights into different segments.)

Return to Santeem, kill Balzack
Get Magma Staff, give to Hero
Return to Monbaraba, rest
Sail to Gardenbur, use Lamp of Darkness at shore
Party: Hero/dead person
Get arrested
Walk out
Party: Hero/Ragnar/Cristo/Alena
Return to Soretta, rest, save

I'll stop there for the moment. I think I will need to test all of this to check for viability before I actually try and record it.

Yes, pretty much what Shiner said. In chapter 1, I run from everything in the cave on the way to Healie, then again in the tower down to the Sword of Malice. In chapter 2, I run from everything after the Tempe boss battle, all the way to Endor. In chapter 3, early on when Taloon is alone against multiple enemies, I run. In chapter 4, I run from everything in the cave on the way to Orin. In chapter 5, I generally only run from large groups of enemies with attacks that hurt everyone at once (Chillanodons and Blizags come to mind).

About Taloon, I decided that since I really have no need for him, I did not want to sit through his level ups if I didn't have to. In the Shrine, I plan to run from everything anyway. Since I don't plan on picking up the Baron's Horn, he wouldn't be available for the final battle anyway.

Ragnar lost his Wooden Hat in the massive sell-off to afford the Half Plate in chapter 1. :( He gets an Iron Mask right away anyway.

Your discussion about the diminishing returns on defense does seem to be true. That is my main motivation to avoid small upgrades to equipment (Golden Barette, Iron Helmet, etc.) and focus on only buying equips that will truly help me in the long run.

I've given some more thought to the chapter 5 route. Here's my current idea (through Gardenbur):

Get Feather Hat
Get gold and armor from shack
Get 2000 coins, equip armor
Sell Clothes, Leather Armor from Hero
Get Nara
Move Half Plate and Scale Shield to Hero
Save

Get 100,000 coins in casino poker
Get Mara
Get 2 Metal Babble Shields (Nara/Mara)
Reorganize party: Mara/Nara/Hero, reequip all
Mara: Venom/Silk/Babble/Feather
Nara: Venom/Silk/Babble/Feather, Boarding Pass, Copper Sword
Hero: Copper/Half/Scale/Leather, Feather Hat
Save

(Mara and Nara both get Venomous Daggers for hopeful paralyzing of a Metal Slime in the statue cave)

Go to statue cave
Kill a metal slime on bottom floor
Get Broad Sword for Hero, equip
Outside, return to Branca, rest, save

(Getting a Metal Slime kill here makes the Symbol of Faith cave extremely easy, also, I found you DON'T need to visit Branca to get it on the Return list, it will be there no matter what.)

Go to cave, heal Hero before losing girls
Get Symbol of Faith
Return to Branca
Move Symbol to Nara
Party: Mara/Nara/Hero
Get wagon
Go to Konenbur, rest, get 2 Small Medals, save

Go to tower
Kill a metal slime if possible
Get Fire of Serenity
Kill boss (bang/sleep/expel)
Return to Konenbur, get Taloon
Party: Mara/Nara/Hero/Taloon
Move one SOM from Taloon to Mara/Nara/Hero, equip on Hero
Sail to Mintos, rest, get Small Medal, save

Walk to shrine, get Small Medal
Walk to Soretta
Walk to cave, get Padequia Seed, Outside
Return to Soretta, rest for daytime, get Padequia Root
Return to Mintos, get Alena’s party
Move Mara’s SOM and Babble Shield to Cristo
Move Nara’s Babble Shield to Hero
Move Hero’s Feather Hat to Alena
Move Alena’s Wooden Hat to Cristo
Sell Nara’s stuff (Venom, Silk, Feather, SOM)
Sell Mara’s stuff (Venom, Silk, Feather)
Sell 3 of Taloon’s SOM’s except for the equipped one
Reequip Alena/Cristo
Party: Brey/Mara/Nara
Return to Soretta, suicide
Party: Hero/Cristo/Taloon/Alena
Hero: SOM/Half/Scale/Leather
Cristo: Copper/Wayfarer/Babble/Wooden, SOM
Taloon: SOM/Iron/none/none
Alena: Iron/Chain/Feather, Thief Key
Save

(I changed my mind again, and will buy 7 SOM's and an Iron Apron for Taloon in chapter 3. Cristo doesn't need the Half Plate now, since I will get him a Sacred Robe in the next segment. Also, I kill off the characters I won't be using to avoid watching their level up gains.)

Return to Mintos
Sail to Riverton, buy Dragon Mail for Hero, buy Sacred Robe for Cristo, get Small Medal
Reequip Hero and Cristo
Sail to Monbaraba
Sail to Kievs, rest, sell Leather Hat, buy Iron Mask for Hero, reequip
Walk to cave, get magic key, one Small Medal, Outside
Return to Endor at night, get Pink Leotard (Alena), Small Medal
Return to Soretta, rest, save

(I changed my mind here, too, deciding to go from Monbaraba to Kievs to the Magic Key instead of going to Haville first. I figure I can go to Haville in the next segment.)

Return to Endor
Sail to island, one Small Medal
Sail to Haville
Sail to Aktemto
Sail to Seaside, (rest for daytime?) one Small Medal
Sail to Santeem
Sail to Stancia
Party: Taloon only, suicide
Get 2 Small Medals
Return to Monbaraba, get Panon
Party: Hero/Cristo/Panon/Alena
Return to Soretta, rest, save

(Taloon is not needed by the end of this segment, so he is sacrificed for the greater good.)

Return to Konenbur, sail to Rosaville
Buy Sword of Lethargy (Hero) and Stiletto Earrings (Alena), equip both
Sail to cave, get 1 Small Medal and Zenithian Armor
Sail to king, get 2 Swords of Miracles (Hero/Cristo), equip
Return to Soretta, rest, save

Return to Keeleon, kill Keeleon
Return to Stancia, party: Panon/Hero, get Zenithian Helm
Party: Hero/Ragnar/Cristo/Alena
Move Sword of Miracles, Dragon Mail and Iron Mask from Hero to Ragnar
Hero: Lethargy/Zenithian/Scale/Zenithian
Cristo: Miracles/Sacred/Babble/Wooden
Ragnar: Miracles/Dragon/Scale/Mask
Alena: Stiletto/Leotard/Feather
Return to Soretta, rest, save

(I also decided to split up the Keeleon and Balzack fights into different segments.)

Return to Santeem, kill Balzack
Get Magma Staff, give to Hero
Return to Monbaraba, rest
Sail to Gardenbur, use Lamp of Darkness at shore
Party: Hero/dead person
Get arrested
Walk out
Party: Hero/Ragnar/Cristo/Alena
Return to Soretta, rest, save

I'll stop there for the moment. I think I will need to test all of this to check for viability before I actually try and record it.

FionordeQuester

2010-04-20 09:22:33 pm

So pretty much your whole strategy for getting through Chapter 2 was to just hope you would run away often enough in a segment where the Tower alone had like 20-30 different encounters?!

ShinerCCC

2010-04-20 09:50:12 pm

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

It's almost what, FQ? You missed a word. I did it while making my testing savestates, it took a few tries but it's not hideously frustrating or anything. It's not a good idea for SS though...I could check the odds of running through Chapter 2, but making repeated failed attempts with no gains is silly when you need to grind for some levels for the tournament anyway. I'll just have to find a smooth way to do that section while trying to put off as much leveling as I can for the richer Endor region.

What's special about level 9? Looks like Brey might learn Snowstorm then, if he gets lucky with Intelligence rolls...

I just found out Bakor knows Increase. If he uses it then the fight will take forever, and you don't have the Zenithian Sword yet either. That would explain all my deep-seated bad memories with that fight. So maybe the Sphere of Silence really will come in handy in single segment. The segmented run can keep him asleep with the Sword of Lethargy and a bit of luck though. Put off cashing in Panon a little longer, maybe? Well, that's one more person who won't get the huge bundle of 7400 exp from Bakor...just swing more to the luck side of things then.

Oh sweet, CJ posted a bigger Chapter 5 route. Time to comment on that.

Quote:

Get 100,000 coins in casino poker
Get Mara
Get 2 Metal Babble Shields (Nara/Mara)

I'd prefer to have 3 so I can give one to Ragnar to try out for the Balzack+ fight. His Sword of Miracles will keep him alive, especially if you keep him closer to the back so he doesn't take physical attacks. But I think it takes longer to break 100,000 coins at the casino. You might to anyway if you find you need a Wizard's Ring versus Necrosaro; with no Baron's Horn, CJ and Cristo are in charge of all healing for the whole thing, instead of having Nara and Lucia do most of it in the early easy phases.

Quote:

Mara: Venom/Silk/Babble/Feather
Nara: Venom/Silk/Babble/Feather, Boarding Pass, Copper Sword
Hero: Copper/Half/Scale/Leather, Feather Hat

(Mara and Nara both get Venomous Daggers for hopeful paralyzing of a Metal Slime in the statue cave)

Go to statue cave
Kill a metal slime on bottom floor
Get Broad Sword for Hero, equip
Outside, return to Branca, rest, save

Not sure about your money situation in Chapter 4, it seems it can vary quite a bit...but the Poison Needle will have a much better chance of helping than the Venomous Dagger. But it is 650 more gold to consider.

Also, why does CJ get a Leather Hat? The Wooden Hat adds 6 defense, the Leather Hat adds 2, but the Wooden Hat costs just under twice as much. It's a bargain, considering you'll have it all the way until Mintos or longer. You can buy it at Endor's item shop, if you didn't know.

Quote:

(Getting a Metal Slime kill here makes the Symbol of Faith cave extremely easy, also, I found you DON'T need to visit Branca to get it on the Return list, it will be there no matter what.)

Wow, that is a sweet find. I think even the TAS missed that. Good luck with that luck manip though.

Quote:

Go to cave, heal Hero before losing girls
Get Symbol of Faith
Return to Branca
Move Symbol to Nara
Party: Mara/Nara/Hero
Get wagon
Go to Konenbur, rest, get 2 Small Medals, save

Not stopping in Aneaux for the eventual Strength Seed? >: Think about it, the Stiletto Earrings add 5 attack, a Strength Seed will boost its efficiency by 50%. Actually it would literally be fastest to grab it only on your first visit and never go back there again, hopefully that won't tax your inventory space too much. And then cast Return to Aneaux to leave. XD

Quote:

Party: Brey/Mara/Nara
Return to Soretta, suicide

Should be Brey/Mara/Nara/CJ. CJ can manually target your own team to kill them off much more quickly. If CJ is in the back she won't get targeted by much of anything. Can I suggest going to someplace with Pteranodons so they get Firebal'd and die a little sooner? I can't think of where in Chapter 5 has them though...

Quote:

Sail to Monbaraba
Sail to Kievs, rest, sell Leather Hat, buy Iron Mask for Hero, reequip

Sail to Kievs?? I don't think Repel works at this low level, and even if you Return to Monbaraba isn't your ship on the east side of the cape? I think it would be better to walk, fewer steps and better fights, you'll probably get some Mystic Dolls for easy money (which you probably don't need thanks to Taloon). Anyone know what level(s) you need to be for Repel to work at sea?
But sailing from Monbaraba to the Magic Key cave could be a brilliant idea; easier fights and maybe fewer wasted steps. I disagree with buying an Iron Mask, however; the Iron Helmet adds 16 defense for 1100 while the Iron Mask adds 25 for 3500. It's not 3 times better, especially with the diminishing returns on defense. The Zenithian Helm is free. Looking ahead, I see it's a hand-me-down for Ragnar, which is not a bad plan, but it might be able to wait until you get the free one in the Gardenbur cave. I know I'd do that for SS, but any defense you can scrouge up for your frontline guys for Balzack+ will help.

As an added bonus, you'll be able to use the Lamp of Darkness at Endor right after getting the Magic Key. Don't get it in Chapter 4, I think the TAS demonstrates that's faster because you save a lot of letters in dialogue prompts.

Quote:

Sail to Stancia
Party: Taloon only, suicide

I noticed you waited until now to kill off Taloon. All you did with him was enter the Padequia Seed cave and do some sailing with him. His Sword of Malice can really speed up random encounters, but there's nothing wrong with cruising around using a 3-man (actually, 3-woman until Cristo joins) team. Now that I think about it, he won't level up much during these journeys and he'll instead wipe out a lot of foes until this point. Stancia's a good place to get him killed ultra-quick though. Don't use a Defensive tactic, he'll probably Parry when at low HP.

A couple small oversights that bug me:
- Keeleon isn't on your Return list, you'll have to walk from Haville but that's ideal
- I keep thinking, you could let Ragnar have the Sword of Lethargy instead, or let CJ and Ragnar each have one. But if you use the Try Out tactic, Ragnar will probably waste a lot of turns trying to Use it for Sleepmore. See if having a second one helps against Esturk or Necrosaro, since you'll be able to afford it by then.
- Is sailing from Monbaraba the fastest way to reach Gardenbur? I always went from Rosaville and sailed north out of the river and around, and your boat starts 1 or 2 squares away from you...from Monbaraba I think you'll have to go southwest.

It's almost what, FQ? You missed a word. I did it while making my testing savestates, it took a few tries but it's not hideously frustrating or anything. It's not a good idea for SS though...I could check the odds of running through Chapter 2, but making repeated failed attempts with no gains is silly when you need to grind for some levels for the tournament anyway. I'll just have to find a smooth way to do that section while trying to put off as much leveling as I can for the richer Endor region.

What's special about level 9? Looks like Brey might learn Snowstorm then, if he gets lucky with Intelligence rolls...

I just found out Bakor knows Increase. If he uses it then the fight will take forever, and you don't have the Zenithian Sword yet either. That would explain all my deep-seated bad memories with that fight. So maybe the Sphere of Silence really will come in handy in single segment. The segmented run can keep him asleep with the Sword of Lethargy and a bit of luck though. Put off cashing in Panon a little longer, maybe? Well, that's one more person who won't get the huge bundle of 7400 exp from Bakor...just swing more to the luck side of things then.

Oh sweet, CJ posted a bigger Chapter 5 route. Time to comment on that.

[quote]Get 100,000 coins in casino poker
Get Mara
Get 2 Metal Babble Shields (Nara/Mara)[/quote]

I'd prefer to have 3 so I can give one to Ragnar to try out for the Balzack+ fight. His Sword of Miracles will keep him alive, especially if you keep him closer to the back so he doesn't take physical attacks. But I think it takes longer to break 100,000 coins at the casino. You might to anyway if you find you need a Wizard's Ring versus Necrosaro; with no Baron's Horn, CJ and Cristo are in charge of all healing for the whole thing, instead of having Nara and Lucia do most of it in the early easy phases.

[quote]Mara: Venom/Silk/Babble/Feather
Nara: Venom/Silk/Babble/Feather, Boarding Pass, Copper Sword
Hero: Copper/Half/Scale/Leather, Feather Hat

(Mara and Nara both get Venomous Daggers for hopeful paralyzing of a Metal Slime in the statue cave)

Go to statue cave
Kill a metal slime on bottom floor
Get Broad Sword for Hero, equip
Outside, return to Branca, rest, save[/quote]

Not sure about your money situation in Chapter 4, it seems it can vary quite a bit...but the Poison Needle will have a much better chance of helping than the Venomous Dagger. But it is 650 more gold to consider.

Also, why does CJ get a Leather Hat? The Wooden Hat adds 6 defense, the Leather Hat adds 2, but the Wooden Hat costs just under twice as much. It's a bargain, considering you'll have it all the way until Mintos or longer. You can buy it at Endor's item shop, if you didn't know.

[quote](Getting a Metal Slime kill here makes the Symbol of Faith cave extremely easy, also, I found you DON'T need to visit Branca to get it on the Return list, it will be there no matter what.)[/quote]

Wow, that is a sweet find. I think even the TAS missed that. Good luck with that luck manip though.

[quote]Go to cave, heal Hero before losing girls
Get Symbol of Faith
Return to Branca
Move Symbol to Nara
Party: Mara/Nara/Hero
Get wagon
Go to Konenbur, rest, get 2 Small Medals, save[/quote]

Not stopping in Aneaux for the eventual Strength Seed? >: Think about it, the Stiletto Earrings add 5 attack, a Strength Seed will boost its efficiency by 50%. Actually it would literally be fastest to grab it only on your first visit and never go back there again, hopefully that won't tax your inventory space too much. And then cast Return to Aneaux to leave. XD

[quote]Party: Brey/Mara/Nara
Return to Soretta, suicide[/quote]

Should be Brey/Mara/Nara/CJ. CJ can manually target your own team to kill them off much more quickly. If CJ is in the back she won't get targeted by much of anything. Can I suggest going to someplace with Pteranodons so they get Firebal'd and die a little sooner? I can't think of where in Chapter 5 has them though...

[quote]Sail to Monbaraba
Sail to Kievs, rest, sell Leather Hat, buy Iron Mask for Hero, reequip[/quote]

Sail to Kievs?? I don't think Repel works at this low level, and even if you Return to Monbaraba isn't your ship on the east side of the cape? I think it would be better to walk, fewer steps and better fights, you'll probably get some Mystic Dolls for easy money (which you probably don't need thanks to Taloon). Anyone know what level(s) you need to be for Repel to work at sea?
But sailing from Monbaraba to the Magic Key cave could be a brilliant idea; easier fights and maybe fewer wasted steps. I disagree with buying an Iron Mask, however; the Iron Helmet adds 16 defense for 1100 while the Iron Mask adds 25 for 3500. It's not 3 times better, especially with the diminishing returns on defense. The Zenithian Helm is free. Looking ahead, I see it's a hand-me-down for Ragnar, which is not a bad plan, but it might be able to wait until you get the free one in the Gardenbur cave. I know I'd do that for SS, but any defense you can scrouge up for your frontline guys for Balzack+ will help.

As an added bonus, you'll be able to use the Lamp of Darkness at Endor right after getting the Magic Key. Don't get it in Chapter 4, I think the TAS demonstrates that's faster because you save a lot of letters in dialogue prompts.

[quote]Sail to Stancia
Party: Taloon only, suicide[/quote]

I noticed you waited until now to kill off Taloon. All you did with him was enter the Padequia Seed cave and do some sailing with him. His Sword of Malice can really speed up random encounters, but there's nothing wrong with cruising around using a 3-man (actually, 3-woman until Cristo joins) team. Now that I think about it, he won't level up much during these journeys and he'll instead wipe out a lot of foes until this point. Stancia's a good place to get him killed ultra-quick though. Don't use a Defensive tactic, he'll probably Parry when at low HP.

A couple small oversights that bug me:
- Keeleon isn't on your Return list, you'll have to walk from Haville but that's ideal
- I keep thinking, you could let Ragnar have the Sword of Lethargy instead, or let CJ and Ragnar each have one. But if you use the Try Out tactic, Ragnar will probably waste a lot of turns trying to Use it for Sleepmore. See if having a second one helps against Esturk or Necrosaro, since you'll be able to afford it by then.
- Is sailing from Monbaraba the fastest way to reach Gardenbur? I always went from Rosaville and sailed north out of the river and around, and your boat starts 1 or 2 squares away from you...from Monbaraba I think you'll have to go southwest.

FionordeQuester

2010-04-20 10:08:32 pm

What's special about level 9? Looks like Brey might learn Snowstorm then, if he gets lucky with Intelligence rolls...

Brey learns Return at Level 9, which is good because you'll be using those other two Wings using the method I use. That was also the level I reached before I was finally able to complete the tower. What I did was, well, I was Level 7 going in, so I made a mad dash to the inn, fought in it until Brey learned Outside, and then tried to raid the Strength seed + 1200 Gold chests. Do a warp to the Bazaar and buy all the defensive + offensive materials you deem necessary to smoothly go through the Tower, then do this.

Keep trying to get through the Tower, and every time it looks like you're gonna come up a little short, cast Outside and use the Inn again. Keep repeating till you finally make it. That's what I did anyways.

chessjerk

2010-04-20 11:40:16 pm

Quote from ShinerCCC:

I'd prefer to have 3 so I can give one to Ragnar to try out for the Balzack+ fight. His Sword of Miracles will keep him alive, especially if you keep him closer to the back so he doesn't take physical attacks. But I think it takes longer to break 100,000 coins at the casino. You might to anyway if you find you need a Wizard's Ring versus Necrosaro; with no Baron's Horn, CJ and Cristo are in charge of all healing for the whole thing, instead of having Nara and Lucia do most of it in the early easy phases.

Nah, I don't think three are necessary. I have had no problems beating Balzack going simply for the Sleep from Sword of Lethargy. Hell, if I really wanted to live dangerously, I'd stop at 50,000 coins and only get one (since my final party only has one member who can equip it).

Quote:

Not sure about your money situation in Chapter 4, it seems it can vary quite a bit...but the Poison Needle will have a much better chance of helping than the Venomous Dagger. But it is 650 more gold to consider.

My history with the Poison Needle must be much worse than yours, since in the limited times I've tried to use it, it hasn't been very good to me. I prefer the Venomous Dagger since it allows Mara to actually be able to cause some melee damage in chapter 4 and early chapter 5.

Quote:

Also, why does CJ get a Leather Hat? The Wooden Hat adds 6 defense, the Leather Hat adds 2, but the Wooden Hat costs just under twice as much. It's a bargain, considering you'll have it all the way until Mintos or longer. You can buy it at Endor's item shop, if you didn't know.

CJ starts with a Leather Hat equipped. No need to waste time getting a Wooden Hat when it isn't really necessary, IMO.

Quote:

Wow, that is a sweet find. I think even the TAS missed that. Good luck with that luck manip though.

I think the TAS got it right also, I think that's where I got the idea from.

Quote:

Not stopping in Aneaux for the eventual Strength Seed? >: Think about it, the Stiletto Earrings add 5 attack, a Strength Seed will boost its efficiency by 50%. Actually it would literally be fastest to grab it only on your first visit and never go back there again, hopefully that won't tax your inventory space too much. And then cast Return to Aneaux to leave. XD

I've been wavering on the subject of going out of my way to collect all the Strength Seeds and feed them to Alena. Does taking that extra minute to get this Seed actually save time in the long run? I have no idea.

Quote:

Should be Brey/Mara/Nara/CJ. CJ can manually target your own team to kill them off much more quickly. If CJ is in the back she won't get targeted by much of anything. Can I suggest going to someplace with Pteranodons so they get Firebal'd and die a little sooner? I can't think of where in Chapter 5 has them though...

My main thinking for not putting CJ there also is when the entire active party is dead, the remaining members jump out of the wagon immediately to join the battle. If I put CJ in there to help with the self-destruction, I'd have to either run away after the rest are dead, or somehow win the battle while manually bringing everyone back out of the wagon. I think my way is easier.

Quote:

Sail to Kievs?? I don't think Repel works at this low level, and even if you Return to Monbaraba isn't your ship on the east side of the cape? I think it would be better to walk, fewer steps and better fights, you'll probably get some Mystic Dolls for easy money (which you probably don't need thanks to Taloon). Anyone know what level(s) you need to be for Repel to work at sea?
But sailing from Monbaraba to the Magic Key cave could be a brilliant idea; easier fights and maybe fewer wasted steps. I disagree with buying an Iron Mask, however; the Iron Helmet adds 16 defense for 1100 while the Iron Mask adds 25 for 3500. It's not 3 times better, especially with the diminishing returns on defense. The Zenithian Helm is free. Looking ahead, I see it's a hand-me-down for Ragnar, which is not a bad plan, but it might be able to wait until you get the free one in the Gardenbur cave. I know I'd do that for SS, but any defense you can scrouge up for your frontline guys for Balzack+ will help.

I was planning on going to Kievs to get the Iron Mask, not knowing as I do now that they are also sold at Riverton. Also, sailing around the southern tip of the island to get directly to the cave isn't a bad idea, the random encounters on that continent are pretty brutal for my level and equipment.

My reasoning for buying the Iron Mask (and a Dragon Shield, too, which is ALSO sold at Riverton) instead of finding them in Bakor's cave is they are WAY out of the way in an annoying cave where I will likely have to do a lot of running to survive. Buying them now saves me that detour.

Quote:

As an added bonus, you'll be able to use the Lamp of Darkness at Endor right after getting the Magic Key. Don't get it in Chapter 4, I think the TAS demonstrates that's faster because you save a lot of letters in dialogue prompts.

Indeed!

Quote:

I noticed you waited until now to kill off Taloon. All you did with him was enter the Padequia Seed cave and do some sailing with him. His Sword of Malice can really speed up random encounters, but there's nothing wrong with cruising around using a 3-man (actually, 3-woman until Cristo joins) team. Now that I think about it, he won't level up much during these journeys and he'll instead wipe out a lot of foes until this point. Stancia's a good place to get him killed ultra-quick though. Don't use a Defensive tactic, he'll probably Parry when at low HP.

I kinda need him for the Magic Key cave, it's rough enough with a 4-person party. The encounter rate is pretty high, with a lot of annoying enemies. Maybe put Taloon in the front and let him die in cave?

Quote:

A couple small oversights that bug me:
- Keeleon isn't on your Return list, you'll have to walk from Haville but that's ideal
- I keep thinking, you could let Ragnar have the Sword of Lethargy instead, or let CJ and Ragnar each have one. But if you use the Try Out tactic, Ragnar will probably waste a lot of turns trying to Use it for Sleepmore. See if having a second one helps against Esturk or Necrosaro, since you'll be able to afford it by then.
- Is sailing from Monbaraba the fastest way to reach Gardenbur? I always went from Rosaville and sailed north out of the river and around, and your boat starts 1 or 2 squares away from you...from Monbaraba I think you'll have to go southwest.

In my experience, Ragnar is a complete idiot with the Sword of Lethargy (as you said, he thinks he has to USE it instead of attacking with it). Against Esturk, it probably isn't a good idea (since he can hurt you while sleeping), but against Necrosaro (hell against his 4 guardians, too!) it might be worth a shot. I'll have to see how it works.

The TAS goes from Monbaraba to Gardenbur, but I don't think the TAS ever visits Rosaville. You might be right, I'll check that too.

[quote="ShinerCCC"]
I'd prefer to have 3 so I can give one to Ragnar to try out for the Balzack+ fight. His Sword of Miracles will keep him alive, especially if you keep him closer to the back so he doesn't take physical attacks. But I think it takes longer to break 100,000 coins at the casino. You might to anyway if you find you need a Wizard's Ring versus Necrosaro; with no Baron's Horn, CJ and Cristo are in charge of all healing for the whole thing, instead of having Nara and Lucia do most of it in the early easy phases.[/quote]

Nah, I don't think three are necessary. I have had no problems beating Balzack going simply for the Sleep from Sword of Lethargy. Hell, if I really wanted to live dangerously, I'd stop at 50,000 coins and only get one (since my final party only has one member who can equip it).

[quote]Not sure about your money situation in Chapter 4, it seems it can vary quite a bit...but the Poison Needle will have a much better chance of helping than the Venomous Dagger. But it is 650 more gold to consider.[/quote]

My history with the Poison Needle must be much worse than yours, since in the limited times I've tried to use it, it hasn't been very good to me. I prefer the Venomous Dagger since it allows Mara to actually be able to cause some melee damage in chapter 4 and early chapter 5.

[quote]Also, why does CJ get a Leather Hat? The Wooden Hat adds 6 defense, the Leather Hat adds 2, but the Wooden Hat costs just under twice as much. It's a bargain, considering you'll have it all the way until Mintos or longer. You can buy it at Endor's item shop, if you didn't know.[/quote]

CJ starts with a Leather Hat equipped. No need to waste time getting a Wooden Hat when it isn't really necessary, IMO.

[quote]Wow, that is a sweet find. I think even the TAS missed that. Good luck with that luck manip though.[/quote]

I think the TAS got it right also, I think that's where I got the idea from.

[quote]Not stopping in Aneaux for the eventual Strength Seed? >: Think about it, the Stiletto Earrings add 5 attack, a Strength Seed will boost its efficiency by 50%. Actually it would literally be fastest to grab it only on your first visit and never go back there again, hopefully that won't tax your inventory space too much. And then cast Return to Aneaux to leave. XD[/quote]

I've been wavering on the subject of going out of my way to collect all the Strength Seeds and feed them to Alena. Does taking that extra minute to get this Seed actually save time in the long run? I have no idea.

[quote]Should be Brey/Mara/Nara/CJ. CJ can manually target your own team to kill them off much more quickly. If CJ is in the back she won't get targeted by much of anything. Can I suggest going to someplace with Pteranodons so they get Firebal'd and die a little sooner? I can't think of where in Chapter 5 has them though...[/quote]

My main thinking for not putting CJ there also is when the entire active party is dead, the remaining members jump out of the wagon immediately to join the battle. If I put CJ in there to help with the self-destruction, I'd have to either run away after the rest are dead, or somehow win the battle while manually bringing everyone back out of the wagon. I think my way is easier.

[quote]Sail to Kievs?? I don't think Repel works at this low level, and even if you Return to Monbaraba isn't your ship on the east side of the cape? I think it would be better to walk, fewer steps and better fights, you'll probably get some Mystic Dolls for easy money (which you probably don't need thanks to Taloon). Anyone know what level(s) you need to be for Repel to work at sea?
But sailing from Monbaraba to the Magic Key cave could be a brilliant idea; easier fights and maybe fewer wasted steps. I disagree with buying an Iron Mask, however; the Iron Helmet adds 16 defense for 1100 while the Iron Mask adds 25 for 3500. It's not 3 times better, especially with the diminishing returns on defense. The Zenithian Helm is free. Looking ahead, I see it's a hand-me-down for Ragnar, which is not a bad plan, but it might be able to wait until you get the free one in the Gardenbur cave. I know I'd do that for SS, but any defense you can scrouge up for your frontline guys for Balzack+ will help.[/quote]

I was planning on going to Kievs to get the Iron Mask, not knowing as I do now that they are also sold at Riverton. Also, sailing around the southern tip of the island to get directly to the cave isn't a bad idea, the random encounters on that continent are pretty brutal for my level and equipment.

My reasoning for buying the Iron Mask (and a Dragon Shield, too, which is ALSO sold at Riverton) instead of finding them in Bakor's cave is they are WAY out of the way in an annoying cave where I will likely have to do a lot of running to survive. Buying them now saves me that detour.

[quote]As an added bonus, you'll be able to use the Lamp of Darkness at Endor right after getting the Magic Key. Don't get it in Chapter 4, I think the TAS demonstrates that's faster because you save a lot of letters in dialogue prompts.[/quote]

Indeed!

[quote]I noticed you waited until now to kill off Taloon. All you did with him was enter the Padequia Seed cave and do some sailing with him. His Sword of Malice can really speed up random encounters, but there's nothing wrong with cruising around using a 3-man (actually, 3-woman until Cristo joins) team. Now that I think about it, he won't level up much during these journeys and he'll instead wipe out a lot of foes until this point. Stancia's a good place to get him killed ultra-quick though. Don't use a Defensive tactic, he'll probably Parry when at low HP.[/quote]

I kinda need him for the Magic Key cave, it's rough enough with a 4-person party. The encounter rate is pretty high, with a lot of annoying enemies. Maybe put Taloon in the front and let him die in cave?

[quote]A couple small oversights that bug me:
- Keeleon isn't on your Return list, you'll have to walk from Haville but that's ideal
- I keep thinking, you could let Ragnar have the Sword of Lethargy instead, or let CJ and Ragnar each have one. But if you use the Try Out tactic, Ragnar will probably waste a lot of turns trying to Use it for Sleepmore. See if having a second one helps against Esturk or Necrosaro, since you'll be able to afford it by then.
- Is sailing from Monbaraba the fastest way to reach Gardenbur? I always went from Rosaville and sailed north out of the river and around, and your boat starts 1 or 2 squares away from you...from Monbaraba I think you'll have to go southwest.
[/quote]

In my experience, Ragnar is a complete idiot with the Sword of Lethargy (as you said, he thinks he has to USE it instead of attacking with it). Against Esturk, it probably isn't a good idea (since he can hurt you while sleeping), but against Necrosaro (hell against his 4 guardians, too!) it might be worth a shot. I'll have to see how it works.

The TAS goes from Monbaraba to Gardenbur, but I don't think the TAS ever visits Rosaville. You might be right, I'll check that too.

FionordeQuester

2010-04-22 01:53:28 pm

One question, have you guys perfected your Chapter 4 route yet? You don't seem to analyze it nearly as much as you do the Chapters 2 and 3 routes.

ShinerCCC

2010-04-22 01:58:23 pm

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

How about instead of asking, pick up one of the savestates I uploaded and try it for yourself?

Seriously, what improvements can be made? Get to level 2, spend your gold somehow, get Orin, die, then ...do this.

The money you collect will vary wildly because you'll be walking, and fighting while walking, and walking while fighting, and then what you buy is kind of determined by how much money you got to begin with. The only givens are Half Plate and Scale Shield for Nara. Do me a favour and do somewhere between 3 to 10 runs of Chapter 4, using the route we specified earlier, start to finish, and report how much gold you finish with every time. Make notes if you pick up the Mystic Acorns in Aktemto mine, or the 240 gold and Lifeforce Nuts chests in the Sphere of Silence cave.

FionordeQuester

Edit history:

FionordeQuester: 2010-04-22 04:00:16 pm

2010-04-22 02:27:41 pm

How about instead of asking, pick up one of the savestates I uploaded and try it for yourself?

Seriously, what improvements can be made? Get to level 2, spend your gold somehow, get Orin, die, then ...do this.

First of all, what do you mean? Are you saying that it's actually possible to play a game using someone elses save states? First of all, I never knew that that was possible, and I thought that link you uploaded was just some video. I never thought to think, "oh, that might be his save states for me to test out", because I never knew that was possible on anything but a Gameboy Advance emulator.

Also, you seem irritated, but I don't know why. I ask questions, you answered, we discussed getting through the C2 Tower a bit, and suddenly you're posting what I'm assuming to be an irritated remark just because I happen to be curious about whether or not you perfected your C4 route. I read the thread, and as far as I know, Chessjerk, the guy whose trying to create this run, has never actually discussed his C4 route any further beyond his very first posting of his route (which has changed drastically since then) beyond "run away on the way to Orin" and "use Venomous Daggers to try to paralyze Metal Slimes".

Am I missing something here? If I did something wrong, I'm sorry. Even if I can't see it, I know it's likely I might just be doing something wrong, because that's happened a lot in the past. I've been asking a lot of questions and haven't contributed all that much in return, and I also just completely skipped over your posted route, assuming that you only posted it as a reference (when I should've just asked you about it).

The money you collect will vary wildly because you'll be walking, and fighting while walking, and walking while fighting, and then what you buy is kind of determined by how much money you got to begin with. The only givens are Half Plate and Scale Shield for Nara. Do me a favour and do somewhere between 3 to 10 runs of Chapter 4, using the route we specified earlier, start to finish, and report how much gold you finish with every time. Make notes if you pick up the Mystic Acorns in Aktemto mine, or the 240 gold and Lifeforce Nuts chests in the Sphere of Silence cave.

Route? I don't remember you guys ever mentioning a route addressing C4 anywhere besides Chessjerk making his very first one on Page 1, a route that has gone through dramatic changes and has never even mentioned C4 since. I looked through the whole thread, you posted your route for...some reason, even though I THINK you said something along the lines of "it's not something I'm satisfied with it at all". Looking back, that wasn't quite the correct thing to do, but that's what I did.

Actually, I'm not really clear on what you're doing. I always thought that you were just posting a segmented run you said was a failed one as a guide for Chessjerk, and making savestates in order to test various stuff out to make suggestions, and maybe making plans for a single segment based on what we talked about in regards to Birdsong Tower.

Am I right? I'm curious to know. Also, if I have time, I'd be glad to help you out with your C4 notes....as soon as I can find this route you specified somewhere. I need to know that first.

[i]How about instead of asking, pick up one of the savestates I uploaded and try it for yourself?[/i]

[i]Seriously, what improvements can be made? Get to level 2, spend your gold somehow, get Orin, die, then ...do this.[/i]

First of all, what do you mean?  Are you saying that it's actually possible to play a game using someone elses save states?  First of all, I never knew that that was possible, and I thought that link you uploaded was just some video.  I never thought to think, "oh, that might be his save states for me to test out", because I never knew that was possible on anything but a Gameboy Advance emulator.

Also, you seem irritated, but I don't know why.  I ask questions, you answered, we discussed getting through the C2 Tower a bit, and suddenly you're posting what I'm assuming to be an irritated remark just because I happen to be curious about whether or not you perfected your C4 route.  I read the thread, and as far as I know, Chessjerk, the guy whose trying to create this run, has never actually discussed his C4 route any further beyond his very first posting of his route (which has changed drastically since then) beyond "run away on the way to Orin" and "use Venomous Daggers to try to paralyze Metal Slimes".

Am I missing something here?  If I did something wrong, I'm sorry.  Even if I can't see it, I know it's likely I might just be doing something wrong, because that's happened a lot in the past.  I've been asking a lot of questions and haven't contributed all that much in return, and I also just completely skipped over your posted route, assuming that you only posted it as a reference (when I should've just asked you about it).

[i]The money you collect will vary wildly because you'll be walking, and fighting while walking, and walking while fighting, and then what you buy is kind of determined by how much money you got to begin with. The only givens are Half Plate and Scale Shield for Nara. Do me a favour and do somewhere between 3 to 10 runs of Chapter 4, using the route we specified earlier, start to finish, and report how much gold you finish with every time. Make notes if you pick up the Mystic Acorns in Aktemto mine, or the 240 gold and Lifeforce Nuts chests in the Sphere of Silence cave.[/i]

Route?  I don't remember you guys ever mentioning a route addressing C4 anywhere besides Chessjerk making his very first one on Page 1, a route that has gone through dramatic changes and has never even mentioned C4 since.  I looked through the whole thread, you posted your route for...some reason, even though I THINK you said something along the lines of "it's not something I'm satisfied with it at all".  Looking back, that wasn't quite the correct thing to do, but that's what I did.

Actually, I'm not really clear on what you're doing.  I always thought that you were just posting a segmented run you said was a failed one as a guide for Chessjerk, and making savestates in order to test various stuff out to make suggestions, and maybe making plans for a single segment based on what we talked about in regards to Birdsong Tower.

Am I right?  I'm curious to know.  Also, if I have time, I'd be glad to help you out with your C4 notes....as soon as I can find this route you specified somewhere.  I need to know that first.

chessjerk

2010-04-22 04:16:41 pm

Funny you should mention a Chapter 4 route, I was working on this today. Check out my new route:

Chapter 4

Segment 18

Get Medical Herb in jar, 80 gold on floor (left side, second row, right seat), Strength Seed in second drawer
Buy Silk Robe for Mara
Walk to Kievs
Rest @ Kievs
Get nuts in right jar in house
Sell Dancer Costume, nuts, buy Feather Hats for both, equip
Spend rest of money on medical herbs
Go to cave, run from encounters
Get Orin (left fork)
Get 240 gold, nuts, Sphere of Silence (Nara), wings
Wings to Kievs, rest
Go to Keeleon, leave
Go to Haville, rest
Sell Nara’s Copper Sword, nuts
Buy Venomous Daggers for Mara & Nara, equip
Detoxify (if needed), save

Segment 19

Go to Aktemto, get acorns, leave
Walk back to Haville, sell acorns
Fight for experience and gold, Mara learns Outside (level 9/10)
Buy Half Plate, Scale Shield for Nara
Rest, Return to Aktemto, save

Segment 20

Get Gunpowder Jar, Outside
Return to Keeleon, use Gunpowder Jar outside Chancellor’s room
Heal up, beat Balzack (Sphere of Silence/Sap, then attack and keep healed)
Lose to Keeleon (can’t win)
Get Boarding Pass
Go to Haville, get on ship
Go down, talk to girl in top room only
Talk to the captain

Thoughts?

Funny you should mention a Chapter 4 route, I was working on this today. Check out my new route:

Chapter 4

Segment 18

Get Medical Herb in jar, 80 gold on floor (left side, second row, right seat), Strength Seed in second drawer
Buy Silk Robe for Mara
Walk to Kievs
Rest @ Kievs
Get nuts in right jar in house
Sell Dancer Costume, nuts, buy Feather Hats for both, equip
Spend rest of money on medical herbs
Go to cave, run from encounters
Get Orin (left fork)
Get 240 gold, nuts, Sphere of Silence (Nara), wings
Wings to Kievs, rest
Go to Keeleon, leave
Go to Haville, rest
Sell Nara’s Copper Sword, nuts
Buy Venomous Daggers for Mara & Nara, equip
Detoxify (if needed), save

Segment 19

Go to Aktemto, get acorns, leave
Walk back to Haville, sell acorns
Fight for experience and gold, Mara learns Outside (level 9/10)
Buy Half Plate, Scale Shield for Nara
Rest, Return to Aktemto, save

Segment 20

Get Gunpowder Jar, Outside
Return to Keeleon, use Gunpowder Jar outside Chancellor’s room
Heal up, beat Balzack (Sphere of Silence/Sap, then attack and keep healed)
Lose to Keeleon (can’t win)
Get Boarding Pass
Go to Haville, get on ship
Go down, talk to girl in top room only
Talk to the captain

Thoughts?

FionordeQuester

Edit history:

FionordeQuester: 2010-04-22 06:23:32 pm

2010-04-22 04:31:08 pm

It seems pretty cool from where I'm standing. I tried doing what Shiner suggested on Page 2 about a half hour ago, and the amount of luck you needed for the cave was pretty high. I like how you sell stuff in a way that allows you to get both Feather Hats. I like how you suggested buying Herbs to, because that's pretty much what I had to do to get through the Cave reliably (well, you DID say to spend that money somehow Shiner!).

I'll try this out, and I'll tell you what I think.

EDIT: Well, you'll have to wait a bit, I saved before you posted this route, both with Save states and the actual saves, so now I have to reload and start over as Torneko... Angry

EDIT 2: Well, I finally beat Taloon's Chapter again....so, guess it's time to test your revised route.

FionordeQuester

Edit history:

FionordeQuester: 2010-04-22 07:21:42 pm

2010-04-22 06:49:17 pm

I'm testing this right now, and so far, the real annoying thing are those danged Poison Mushroom enemies. I think you should pick up about 2-3 Antidotes just to deal with those guys. Other than that though, it seems to run pretty smoothly. I recommend 3 though. Also, keep your HP above 12 at all times.

FionordeQuester

2010-04-22 07:41:38 pm

Hmm...one snag in your route I think. I finished it up and all, and I ended up about 250 Gold short of the amount needed to buy a second Venomous Dagger. Maybe I messed up somewhere, but the point is, ending up with 1500 Gold for the Venomous Daggers seems to be a lot of money to try to save up by the time you reach Haville.

chessjerk

2010-04-22 08:24:33 pm

What level were you when you got to Haville?

If I remember, Mara was level 7 and Nara was level 6, maybe I just ran into more enemies than you did?

FionordeQuester

Edit history:

FionordeQuester: 2010-04-22 09:01:25 pm

2010-04-22 08:46:51 pm

Both of them were Level 6. I think I might've run from a few to (The Poison Mushrooms especially). Also, is it just me, or is Orin absolutely broken?!