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otdq: 2016-07-13 12:44:31 pm
Yeah so. There's a bunch of weird stuff with wolves btw. They're super broken.

Here's the gist, regarding how wolves operate, and how the glitch operates:

1. There are two kinds of wolves:
    (a) those that are instantiated to stand and wait when the chapter is loaded (4 of them along the path), and
    (b) those that spawn when Naiee enters darkness.

Haven't found much wrong with (a)'s the (b) that I'll be talking about.

2. The biggest issue with (b) is that spawned wolves aren't killed off when you Restart From Checkpoint. They just keep coming. This means that, depending on where the wolf is, and when you respawn...
- you can get killed before the game restarts, resulting in a normal restart, but you hear the death sound. Also, you might see the wolf run around for a sec, or running away in the distance.
- you can get killed during the fade-in, triggering a fade-out but retaining control of the brother who didn't get killed
- you can get killed during the fade-in, NOT triggering a fade-out, meaning you're just walking around while your brother is lying dead on the ground
- if the wolf is far enough away, you can get killed AFTER the fade-in, meaning you restart directly into a typical wolf-induced death

3. It's also possible for the wolf to change targets upon a Restart, and attack Naia rather than Naiee. This shouldn't be possible in a typical playthrough, as only Naiee is able to spawn them in the first place. I'm not yet entirely sure what specifically causes the change in targeting.

4. Wolves spawn from various "entry points" around the perimeter of the woods. If you use console and type "show splines", you can see where these entry points lie.

5. It's possible to tell the game WHICH entry point to spawn a wolf from. It seems that it draws a line/ray from Naia through Naiee, and then spawns a wolf from the entry point nearest that line. (that said, a wolf can never spawn "in front" of Naia if Naiee is behind him.)

6. SO. There's a glitch which involves timing a Restart From Checkpoint such that a wolf will be *on top of your spawn point* when you restart. In order to do this, you must choose a specific wolf entry point, and restart at a certain time.
This can have some crazy results, and can affect either brother.

- Brother stuck in wall at the position he was at before Restart, then climbing out and ending up OOB. I've done this with both Naia and Naiee.
- Brother stuck in some other position (in or out of bounds, possibly even underground) nearby the position he was at before Restart. I've done this with both Naia and Naiee.
- Brother frozen and softlocked on start point. I've only had Naia softlock.
- Naia way the hell out in the distance, and wolves fail to spawn and kill Naiee despite no torch being around. (skip to 11:20 or so to see Naia's location) This one is absolutely nuts. The log indicates wolves are spawning, but I don't know what's going on at all.

7. It's possible to spawn two different wolves and to have them target one brother each, but it requires spawning a wolf, restarting, then spawning another wolf, and restarting. If we can find a good setup, it should be theoretically possible to do this, and result in both brothers being able to get OOB.

Wolves, man.
Finally got the sub 1:15 Smiley

any% in 1:14:39

Lost 10 seconds to dog and 16 to boss fight lol. Chapter 5 glitch was perfect though. Gonna leave this game at that for a while.

Edit history:
Yodenko: 2016-09-04 04:48:12 am
Hey Guys

For everyone interested in learning to speedrun this game, i recently did a tutorial in my stream. I'm using the basic strats without some pro tricks otdq did in his WR run. There is some bad english in it but overall it turned out pretty well for the fact that its completely freestyle and first take.

Tutorial vids:

- Intro
- Chapter 1
- Chapter 2
- Chapter 3
- Chapter 4
- Chapter 5
- Chapter 6
- Chapter 7

Have fun with it!
Cool stuff Yodenko. Smiley

I've been chipping away at this wolf thing since I first posted about it last July. I'd mostly given up on it...but then I saw that Barrier Skip had been achieved.

So I tried again.

This is an absolutely bonkers insane glitch. I'm so pumped.
This is awesome, great found otdq, I also loved your reaction on vod ^^

I've told you guys about goats glitch and the problem of height I have while doing it (see previous page), but I've not been able to stream it since my computer is slowly dying. About that, I was wondering, is it possible that the glitches are fps related ? It could explain things...

Anyway, I should try to get a PS4 version of the game, I would be able to stream it and maybe get some help.
Hey thanks SamuraiBlue!

Yeah, I've actually seen that Goats thing from a few different people now, and I have no idea why it's happening. It might be an fps thing? Is your computer not great? (I know you said it's dying, but :D)
Here it is once more, and expected. It's hard, but I think it's getting easier with practice.

To do this:

1. Get to the first checkpoint in the woods.

2. Turn around and walk back to the position in the video above. There's a small "corner" in the wall geometry that I use as a marker when positioning Naiee.

3. Walk away with Naia.

This positioning is somewhat need to spawn a specific wolf spawnpoint, and you dictate that by "pointing at it" with an arrow drawn from Oldbro to Youngbro. If you want to see where that spawnpoint is, you can type "show splines" in the console.

4. Pause exactly 17 frames (or 0.283s) after the wolf spawns, and restart from checkpoint.

There's no visual cue since the wolf spawns in the woods, so you need to rely on the sound alone.

I tore the game files apart, and found the two spawn snarl sounds that the game chooses from randomly when spawning a wolf. Cropped to 0.283s, they sound like this and this. If you hear any more, or any less, the glitch will likely fail.

5. When the game restarts from checkpoint, you will see Naia in the woods...but Naiee will hopefully be off frozen in the sky somewhere. Tap Naiee's "use" button to briefly spook him out (and to re-enable his collision component) - gravity will kick in, he'll fall into the river, and trigger the cutscene.

This skip is brutal hard. Good luck.
Edit history:
Yodenko: 2017-05-01 01:52:03 pm
Tbh this glitch is so FREAKIN SEXY! Seems like we are close to the difficulty of a insta hess (OoT reference). The sad point is that you have to go through the very slow chapt 1 again everytime you fail it. Could you time how much time this saves and how many tries we have to still save time? Would be nice to know.

Edit: Tried to get the glitch. I manage to get naiee somewhere in the sky. But the only 2 things i got after taping "use" is either naiee voiding out (late?) or a black screen (early?). So if my assumptions are right i'm just not on the right frame. It is pure luck to hit the right frame just by audio que imo... I mean if we had 2 frames it would be so much easier...


P.S. Good job man!
Hi Everyone,

Just wanted to say hello, I caught otdq on SGDQ playing brothers and having played it through a couple of times thought it might be fun to also try and run.
Have just started learning so just wanted to say hello and also say thanks to Yodenko and otdq for all the information they have out there. It's been great to help me get started.
Edit history:
Yodenko: 2017-07-11 03:42:20 am
Hey UseR!

Glad someone got triggered to learn this game. If you are streaming I will stop by and help you out if you need. Would love to see some more guys hop into speedrunning this game ;). Maybe I start running it again and go for WR :P.

fyi, I might start a Discord channel for this...and I'm also planning on doing a long-ass weekend stream or something soon, in which I will play the whole game through and point out everything we've found thus far, for anyone new coming on the scene. Should be fun.

Welcome @UseR2006. Thanks for watching my run. Smiley
Thanks @otdq and @Yodenko

So i'm running into an issue on the prelogue skip, So I can get up in the air easy enough and get through to the bridge guy ok but when I move to the next area it returns both brothers to the start of the prologue area where the cart should be instead of loading the next map. when it loads there no cart, and I can't even walk down the hill as the older brother locks up and wont move beyond the top of the hill.

Anything I'm missing? I can get to the next chapter if i reload the checkpoint near the well before I go trigger the guy at the bridge, but from the runs I have watched that shouldn't be needed?
If you watch my SGDQ run, I address this exact problem. Smiley

You need to touch the checkpoint zone beside the well once you drop down, as that's the trigger that will prep the next chapter to load. It's the spot between the well and the dog cage puzzle.
Welp, first day back...and I found some new tech. -_-

First discovery, one bro only.
First time with both bros.
Easy every time.

Timed it out and it saves about a minute. Crazy.
Edit history:
otdq: 2017-07-15 02:56:12 pm
btw also just created a discord server for Brothers speedrunning. Cheesy

Also did a full playthrough tutorial for the speedrun.
New PB/WR pals. 1:08:40
Edit history:
Yodenko: 2017-07-17 01:08:32 pm
Holy shit, congratz! How did u find that? Did you just never think it is possible to do this early?

P.S. Dang it... I probably need to start running it again!
Thanks man - yeah, I was just beginning a stream of "Talk about all the tech we've found, whether it's helpful or not"...and I was explaining how the wheelbarrow moves, and how it won't back away from the wall if you jam a bro in between one bro and the wheelbarrow. And then I just tried applying that in a way I hadn't before I guess!