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otdq: 2015-01-08 11:50:00 am
www.powerupaudio.com
Brothers PB / WR - 1:22:25 Smiley

Hey everyone, I've been a little busy for the past week! This run is not tight at ALL (I have no goddamn idea how you guys get your pipe glitch so consistent. I need a more in-depth tutorial for the first bit I think), but I'm just about to begin the literal busiest month of my life, so I wanted to at least get one on the board before then. SO WITHOUT FURTHER ADO -


1.
The Escape Goat Skip.

Someone mentioned that you can get a goat to fall into the pit prior to the cutscene trigger, but that it was impossible to get BOTH goats nudged off the edge. That was correct.

However, if you position a goat directly behind you and spam "Interact", you will slowly, slowly nudge off the ledge until you fall*. Once you do, the goat tries to follow you, at which point you mount him and ride across the sky directly to the tower. Smiley

A small side effect of this glitch is that the music will continue to play until the end of the chapter.

Now I know what you're thinking..."Hey otdq, why don't you just fly directly to the chapter 5 loading zone." Well I'm glad you asked. If you DO do that, it throws you back at the beginning of Chapter 4 for some reason, but with a glitched and impassable windmill. I'm not sure EXACTLY what flag needs to be tripped to allow Chapter 5 to load correctly, but saving the gryphon seems to do it. Feel free to experiment!

*that edge glitch works for any interactable object near an edge that you stop frozen on (ie: not an edge that you continue to run against)



2.
Fast branch in Chapter 5. (check it out)

Saves maybe 15s max, if you have immediate success. I can usually get it in under 15s, so it's always worth going for. Worst case scenario, I break even.

TUTORIAL: Walk forward (away from the camera) into the wall, with the brothers side by each, underneath the branch, and as far to the left as you can. With the leftmost brother, slowly back off (towards the camera), and as soon as you see the rightmost brother begin to take the place of where the left brother used to be standing, push back into that brother again. With a little movement, you should "climb" the brother and end up in a position to grab the branch. This works with both brothers.



3.
InfiniTorch™

When leaving the woods at the beginning of Chapter 3, if you leave the younger brother behind (just inside the "gate", so that he's not quite in the cemetery, but the wolves also won't attack anymore), and walk way ahead with the older brother, he'll preserve the torch, and the torch will stay attached to him for the entirety of the chapter - even in water and during cutscenes. (note: If you interact with any object, it will make him leave his "sneaking" stance. The best option is probably the bench just inside the cemetery.)

All that said, this has one very important effect: The game still KIND OF thinks you're in the woods, and as a result, the younger brother's "Interact" button will continue to freeze him in position, afraid of his surroundings. Some WEIRD SHIT happens when you do that in different scenarios...


eg.
- the gravekeeper can walk through him
- you can grab on to the forced-fall rocky outcropping from a distance
- you can fall through "beams" (like the fallen tree bridge)
- if pressed and held while climbing up on to a small ledge, it's possible to stand "in the ground"
- if pressed while using the bench overlooking the waterfall, you can climb up on top of it
- if spammed at the far right of the branch, nearest the trunk, it's possible to fly super high into the air (like 100m)
- along with the above, it's possible to land "on" the tree, and then climb around weirdly in the branches, and even in behind the waterfall.
- if pressed after dying due to falling off the rock prior to grabbing on to the root (or by letting go of that root), the falling corpse will freeze in air, leaving an invisible brother slowly sinking towards the kill zone until he dies
- if pressed underwater before the dream, he'll fall to the floor, no longer in danger of drowning, and you can just walk around (That is to say, don't press anything while underwater!)
- if held prior to the wolf-chase cutscene, it's possible to simply fall through the level after the cutscene ends
- if pressed during the dream, he'll walk in place
- ...??? I DON'T KNOW. THERE IS SO MUCH YOU GUYS. GET TO WORK.



Anyway, the IMPORTANT EFFECTS are...

(a) He can stand on water. In fact, he CAN'T grab on to his older brother in the river, so you need to "Interact" occasionally as he floats downstream so that his drowning timer is continually reset.

(b) if held down while hanging from the root...the older brother can let go, leaving you floating in the air and slowly sinking. While you're sinking, the older brother is now free to simply RUN to the cutscene trigger. The geometry up there is a little weird because you were never meant to run around, but if you do it right, you can save like 30-40s. Who needs Pause strats, right? Cheesy



Alright, that's it for the new stuff! As far as further possibilities go...

- I got behind the forced-fall outcropping once using the InfiniTorch™, but accidentally wandered too close and triggered it. I'm hoping you can somehow get across and fall into the water without hitting the kill zone, but I'm doubtful that the older brother will be able to walk anywhere at all.
- This thing with the saw, but doubtful that it's helpful.
- Something with the saw, similar to the pipe glitch?
- If both brothers try to pick up a turtle at the same time, they can both grab the same turtle. This isn't otherwise allowed if you do it one at a time. But more interestingly...
- ...Making the older brother run while holding a turtle has crazy consequences, but as of yet I've been unable to reproduce it. It's for sure reproducible though!
- It's possible to preserve the ball in Chapter 1, but I've found no reason to do so. I was hoping to use the edge glitch as with the Goat Skip above.
- It's also possible to relocate the sheep to here and also here, which isn't very useful yet, but is super hilarious. These guys could be used to edge glitch also, potentially, but I've got a feeling the zone change trigger needs the ogre to function. That is, unless the cave is actually in the same level, which is entirely possible.


<3


oh btw, I enabled dev console and I've been using "show splines" and "show volumes" to see the guts of the levels when I'm not speedrunning. Helps. Smiley
Edit history:
otdq: 2015-01-13 12:09:27 am
www.powerupaudio.com
New PB / WR - 1:16:59 Smiley

NEW DEVELOPMENTS!

1.
SickDad%

Steps to reproduce:
- leave Dad on the bridge-crossing
- advance on to the grassy/dirt patch to cross the savepoint
- reload your game from the main menu (NOT from in-game!)
-  pull dad just far enough off the bridge-crossing such that he "drops" on to the ground slightly, the reverse back on to the bridge-crossing
- try to walk back off the bridge-crossing again, and you should find that you CAN'T. Up on the right stick, and Down on the left stick should get Dad to float into the air for you.


2.
Spin strats!

Similar to the edge glitch, the basic gist is that any edge you "lock up" against when you walk into it, you can potentially "spin" towards it which will gradually inch you off the edge.

I used this in Chapter 5 to fall directly into the cave later in the level... but admittedly it's super hard to do with Naia. Naiee is no problem because he jumps not as far for some reason, but Naya is really tough to get into position!

How it works:
- There is a line (called a "spline" in UDK) on the ground on each side of all narrow gaps in the game that you hop across.
- You will ONLY hop across the gap if you are facing forwards (that is, if an "arrow" pointing in the direction you are facing points across the spline once you are on top of it, if that makes sense)
- That said, it's possible/easiest in one particular position to hop across so that you're facing AWAY from the line, and then to tap backwards to make yourself slide over the spline without ever having faced toward it.
- If you slide far enough, you can then turn around, because you will have already slid past it.
- Once you do that, you can employ spin strats to fall off the edge entirely

THAT SAID:
- If you fall directly between the gap, you'll end up on top of the cave's geometry. It's possible to free yourself, but it's a pain in the ass.
- Your goal should be to fall approximately where I fell in the link above - just off the near corner.

Good luck with this one. It's by far the hardest skip in the game.


3.
Reverse boat!

Pretty straight forward...just paddle backwards. The idea is that the Orca's are programmed to spawn in FRONT of you...so if you paddle backwards the entire way, you can avoid RNG.

The best of all possible outcomes is probably achieved by paddling forwards regularly, but the RNG can be a real bitch in this area. This is MUCH safer and wastes maybe 7 seconds or something max.



Finally, a few of us have managed to get the Chapter 6 saw off the ground, Pipe-glitch-style, but we haven't been able to replicate it reliably. There is for SURE a way to do it though. Come on folks. Smiley
Edit history:
Yodenko: 2015-01-13 04:38:06 pm
Hey otdq!

Thank you very much for stopping by in my channel today and telling me about your new discoveries! Amazing stuff dude! I already managed to get the Prologue glitch but the move path is kinda difficult and you can get stuck at some places. Well for backup you can just let go of intereact and do the lvl regularely. Did you time if it isn't faster to just skip the cutscene and play the lvl regularely?

Since i'm learning 70 Stars now i probably wont come back to Brothers right now. But i'll definately give it a shot since your found skips are rly rly amazing! Let me sleep over it a few times, maybe i decide to leave Mario and try to get my WR back ;).

Yodenko

P.S. Why do look like Howard Wolowitz Shocked Left you a follow will stop by when i see your online!
P.S. 2. So you are using Strat 1,2 from your first post and all 3 from your second one in your run?

Edit: I just tried the flying goats successfully! Did you know that it's possible to push the goat over the ledge with the other one so that the goat is sinking? It is way easier and a lot faster than your mashing strat but i didnt manage to mount the goat in midair without triggering the jump/cutscene or voiding out.
www.powerupaudio.com
Quote from Yodenko:
Hey otdq!

Thank you very much for stopping by in my channel today and telling me about your new discoveries! Amazing stuff dude! I already managed to get the Prologue glitch but the move path is kinda difficult and you can get stuck at some places. Well for backup you can just let go of intereact and do the lvl regularely. Did you time if it isn't faster to just skip the cutscene and play the lvl regularely?


Depends where you mean re: skipping the cutscene. I've got a pretty good route if you watch the WR run, considering that the game won't load Chapter 1 correctly unless you uncage the dog (at least, that's what I've found so far). Feel free to give it a try though!

I haven't explored the move path ENTIRELY, but the route in the WR run is very reliable if you know where the invisible walls are. Smiley

Quote from Yodenko:
So you are using Strat 1,2 from your first post and all 3 from your second one in your run?


I used all 3 from the first post, and all 3 from the second post in the WR run. (Notice the fact that I never drop the torch!)

Quote from Yodenko:
I just tried the flying goats successfully! Did you know that it's possible to push the goat over the ledge with the other one so that the goat is sinking? It is way easier and a lot faster than your mashing strat but i didnt manage to mount the goat in midair without triggering the jump/cutscene or voiding out.


I did know it was possible, yep, it's just way way more risky considering how accurate you need to be in order to not touch the wall or the rocks in the centre of the gap.


Thanks for all the kind words man. Finding these strats has been super fun. Smiley
Edit history:
Tolo: 2015-01-13 11:57:59 pm
Tolo: 2015-01-13 11:54:57 pm
Tolo: 2015-01-13 08:08:47 pm
Tolo: 2015-01-13 08:07:31 pm
Hey there I am fairly new to speedrunning, and I have chosen this game to be my first game to learn. I am still new to the game and I have only really had one run through it, besides of my first playthrough. So its great to see this discussion here, and I am slowly trying to learn all the glitches and routes that you guys have found and worked out so far.


I am currently practicing the glitch in the prologue and I still need to find a way to get the dad up and flying straight away. I guess I just need to get used to the controls a bit, but I eventually got it to work, and I made it to all the invisible walls.

Quote from otdq:
Depends where you mean re: skipping the cutscene. I've got a pretty good route if you watch the WR run, considering that the game won't load Chapter 1 correctly unless you uncage the dog (at least, that's what I've found so far). Feel free to give it a try though!

I haven't explored the move path ENTIRELY, but the route in the WR run is very reliable if you know where the invisible walls are. Smiley


In one of my attempts through all of the invisible walls, I actually made it to chapter 1, without having to uncage the dog, but I did splash water on the guy at the drawbridge, so he would let me over. Unfortunately I didn't record it and I am not sure how I did it either, but I am just letting you know that its possible.
www.powerupaudio.com
Hey man! Thanks for the note on the Prologue skip...I don't really know what you mean by "I splashed water", but maybe it's something like...the game checks to see what the last checkpoint you hit was?
www.powerupaudio.com
Snap. I just finished the Prologue without doing the dog crank too. I'm going to experiment with some other things now... Thanks Tolo. Cheesy
Edit history:
Tolo: 2015-01-13 11:28:22 pm
Tolo: 2015-01-13 11:26:14 pm
Tolo: 2015-01-13 11:12:36 pm
That's great to hear, I was pretty annoyed I couldn't replicate it myself. So after my initial post I went ahead and attempted it for another 2½ hours untill I eventually found a reliable way to do it.... despite it ended up being 06:30am.

Here was my result:
http://www.twitch.tv/tolodk/c/5875870

I think for the cut scene to load you into Chapter 1 properly, you need to go back and briefly look at the guy, like I did at in the video at the 1:40 mark. The reason I say this, is because I tried it multiple times without doing so, and that would basically bring me back to the start of the prologue once I had seen the cut scene at the end.

I tried many different things, at one point I also tried going a huge circle around and under the town, straight to the point where the game will load you into the cut scene, but after the cut scene had loaded I was once again brought back to the start of the prologue and in a very buggy state.



www.powerupaudio.com
Exactly. There's a checkpoint there that you need to trigger apparently. Smiley You can see the game saving in the top-right of the screen.

Using that information, I tried to figure out how to skip the damn Gryphon cutscene in Chapter 4 and came up completely empty. So annoying.
Edit history:
Yodenko: 2015-01-16 03:27:19 pm
Okay, i timed some stuff today:

1. Prologue: It's more than worth to skip most of the part. Just passing the bridge and playing the rest regular is a lot slower. I recommend to release the dog since i wasn't able to interact with the water bucket after i skipped to release the dog.

2. Whale section: I timed forwards and backward. In my forward i had to dodge 1 whale so pretty good rng. It ended up to be the same time when moving backwards without to dodge anything, and my movement was shitty due to reverse control. So this means going backwards is faster if you have to dodge 1 whale or more. I recommend to turn when you have to do the 90° turn to the left. This might save some time over doing a 180 at the beginning

So that's it for now. I will definately come back to Brothers but not right now. Since you have a lucky streak finding new stuff it might be more to skip, also i rly want to do 70 Stars SM64 its a lot of fun!

Gl on the runs guys!

Yodenko

P.S. How do you guys use WSplit when you are playing Brothers? I always have to tab out to split it's rly annoying. Is there a workaround for this?
www.powerupaudio.com
haha, it's not a lucky streak - I'm just super persistent. Cheesy

I use LiveSplit, and enable global hotkeys. I then have a program called "Joy2Key" which maps the split and undo buttons to the face buttons on my controller. Works pretty well.
Edit history:
Brutletoy: 2015-01-18 10:15:34 pm
Brutletoy: 2015-01-18 10:06:52 pm
Here is a short new skip in chapter 5. It comes right after the big wall spin drop. (And my setups for the other two tricks in chapter 5, all three skips in a 4min video, not bad) Didn't hook up my camera or microphone for it, so it's a pretty basic video, maybe it'll learn how to setup this stuff better soon.

http://www.twitch.tv/brutletoy/c/5912480

Anyways, you can also wall clip out the other side from that new skip, but it's VERY difficult to get both brothers off the other side, I only managed it twice, and it's very easy to get stuck in the pillars behind the girl and needing to restart when it happens, which takes you all the way back to the top before the big drop. Rough. That said, maybe messing with it a bit more will enable you to skip the entire 'playing god' scene to rescue the girl. Not sure if the game will even let you do that, if anyone manages to get past the door.

Here are two clips of me trying things on that side of the wall.

http://www.twitch.tv/brutletoy/c/5912363
http://www.twitch.tv/brutletoy/c/5912418

In that first one, I think I just got really lucky to get both brothers off (phrasing!). In the second, I use the maximum distance between the two brothers to try and make the game force him off the edge, but I couldn't repeat it on my next try. In both you can see the brothers clipping the pillars and then getting frozen.

As for the saw in chapter 6, all I managed to do was to get the saw to fly away, with neither brother holding it Sad
Hey Brutletoy! Nice effort on the glitches!

Your 4 min video is pretty helpful for the first 2 glitches of chapter 5. But tbh i dont think it's worth to go for the last one. I timed it and the way you did it in your first video lost 24 seconds over my pb in which i played it the intended way. So the only way to rly save some time would be to have a fast and consistant setup for this glitch and a way to pass the "playing god" part. I also timed the first trick, it saves about 10 seconds. I was surprised by the amount of time the second saves. Even your execution wasn't perfect, it still saved 1 minute and 10 seconds. So in my opinion we should rly focus on glitches which are worth to go for.

Yodenko
Edit history:
Brutletoy: 2015-01-19 04:11:42 pm
That third one probably won't ave much time, but that was onlya few tries to make it work. It can be a lot faster than what I did in that video, as it's really super easy to get oob there with the spins. And, I think only the big brother needs to be down to get the checkpoint to register, because it is possible to get stuck in the stairs there, and if the big brother gets stuck, you can't trigger the checkpoint with the little one, but if the little one gets stuck, you can trigger it just fine.

But, yeah, the risk of soft locking, the game and having to go back to a much earlier checkpoint, and potentially not even saving any time, is pretty brutal.
www.powerupaudio.com
Interesting, I was trying the exact same stuff last night! Falling down to the blood saves maybe 10s max if you do it perfectly. Otherwise, I did a TON of experimentation behind the altar where the girl is held. I was really hoping for a way to untie her from there, but so far I've come up empty.

I was thinking maybe I could get both brothers to fall in the same place and do a head bounce...and maybe "use" the rope while head-bouncing? That could potentially save like 30s if done perfectly, but I have no idea if it will even work.

I also tried to get over behind the gate, but it's SUPER hard. I did manage to get across to the wall beside the pre-gate stairs without getting stuck, but only with with a single brother, and only TWICE. ...and this was across like...30 attempts (all other attempts resulted in soft-locking).

All that said, I'm pretty sure the cutscene won't trigger without the girl anyway. Sad
Quote from otdq:
I was thinking maybe I could get both brothers to fall in the same place and do a head bounce...and maybe "use" the rope while head-bouncing? That could potentially save like 30s if done perfectly, but I have no idea if it will even work.


Based on my playing today, I was killed, in mid air, like 3 times by the guy with a spear standing in front of the girl. I don't know if you could hit it even if you had prefect positioning with the bros and got the drop and everything. He just kills you if you get in front of spiderwoman even if you're 10 feet above him.
Speedrunner
I guys, new world record in 1:16:33.79 by me

Link : http://www.twitch.tv/mrganondorf/c/5940800

enjoy him Wink

Have a good day !
Edit history:
Yodenko: 2015-01-26 02:24:04 pm
Yodenko: 2015-01-25 03:43:05 pm
Yodenko: 2015-01-25 02:25:52 pm
Alright Folks!

@MrGanondorf: Nice to see another Swiss Speedrunner ;). Congratz to your WR awesome run, too bad you lost some time on the whale section and spider fight. The execution of the glitches was  perfect. I left a follow

So it seems like this game got some serious competition now. This means that as soon as my strain injury is over (next friday) i will leave Mario behind me and go for 70 Stars later. And i will come back to this beautiful game, i will learn the new glitches and i will try to get WR ofc! I'm looking forward to speedrun this game again and try the new glitches.

Yodenko

Edit: Ok, i was trying glitches today even though i shouldnt^^. But i didnt manage to get the chapter 5 skip with spin strats. Can you explain that a bit better?

Edit2: Today i found myself almost 2 hours trying to get the chapter 5 skip(spin strats). The younger brother is no problem but i dont manage to get the older off :(. Well i might go for a run without spin strats in chapter 5 soon.
Hey Brothers Runners!

Got my first decent PB today, a 1:20:27. I died at dog section and i failed "Supergoat" once cuz 1 goat decided to go the intended way :(. I will go for sub 1:20 maybe i can get a sub 1:19 without the chapter 5 skip if i get a flawless run.
To sum this up, this game makes a lot more fun using the new glitches :P.

Yodenko
New PB! 1:18:13

Got everything first try and didnt die once. Only chapter 5 was a bit slow and chapter 2 was really slow. Not going to improve this soon until new stuff gets discovered.

Yodenko
Hi guys, I just achieved new WR, it still can be improved greatly. I got a 1:16:33.66. Enjoy!:

http://www.twitch.tv/iamveteranz/c/6304024
I also wanted to add, I found a way to consistently skip the dog cutscene in the prologue, if you drop in or by the dog cage past the fence that is closed, you can runthrough the arch, load everything normally, and save about 10 seconds:

http://www.twitch.tv/iamveteranz/c/6305868

I also wanted to mention, for those new to the game, I made a full game tutoral minus the chapter 5 tree branch skip:

http://www.twitch.tv/iamveteranz/c/6301669

One other thing to add, my chapter 5 spin strat skip is a mix of otdq's strategy and mrganondorf's, doing it this way seemed much more consistent when it came to getting past the splines:

http://www.twitch.tv/iamveteranz/c/6305891

P.S. two things, my wr I went back to make sure it was timed currectly due to such a close spacing for previous wr, my split was correct. Also, my run can be very iimproved my sum of bests is a 1:15:44 and I didn't do fast tree branch which can save an extra 10s. Overall sub 1:16:00 is possible with the strats and glitches we have atm.
I want to add, anyone who wants to submit new times, I am moderating the Brothers leaderboard on speedrun .com, so if you visit:

http://www.speedrun.com/brothers

and click "Submit Run" I will add it to the leaderboard ASAP

P.S. Be sure to have a video link otherwise the run is illegitimate and will not be accepted.
Hey Veteranz! Glad to see there is still competition going with this game. Thx 4 submitting our runs to speedrun.com, and thx 4 your tutorials. I will check them out and i'll try to improve my PB in the Future.

otdq found a way to get in the air with the saw in chapter 6 yesterday. We dont have a consistant and fast way and we dont know where to go atm but it's very promising so far.

Yodenko
www.powerupaudio.com
Yep.

But it's stupid hard. I've put about 5 more hours in since that highlight, and I can now KIND of do it on purpose...and it's surprisingly technical. I'm pretty sure it involves a frame-accurate grab on the saw with Naiee.

The way I'm doing it now, this is magnitudes harder than the Chapter 5 skip. Best of luck gents.