Bayonetta

flicky

Edit history:

flicky: 2014-02-08 04:56:45 am

2014-02-08 04:53:16 am

$15 per rant/allegory

So I'm thinking about this some more and I'm wondering if going back to how we used to do times would be a better option (that is, game time + real time together).

I beat my RTA earlier with a run I know is worse than my SDA one (2:19:41). It seems weird to think that the worse run is now WR. If I add the times together, the SDA run is better. Would anyone else be averse to going with this option? I don't mind there being a game-time record, RTA record and a combined one, but when I think that this poor run (that is, MY poor run) is now being seen as better than my old one is odd.

I'm not trying to take the record off Beatrix (well I am, but I'm going to do that by beating his RTA time), but I think we should figure what's the better choice here. It's like Super Metroid again.

Edit: I found some other things that save a scary amount of time. Will share them with you when I'm certain they work in single segment. Going to be playing most of today so hoping for that RTA PB.

FakemasterPT

2014-02-08 06:08:49 am

Quote from flicky:

So I'm thinking about this some more and I'm wondering if going back to how we used to do times would be a better option (that is, game time + real time together).

I beat my RTA earlier with a run I know is worse than my SDA one (2:19:41). It seems weird to think that the worse run is now WR. If I add the times together, the SDA run is better. Would anyone else be averse to going with this option? I don't mind there being a game-time record, RTA record and a combined one, but when I think that this poor run (that is, MY poor run) is now being seen as better than my old one is odd.

I'm not trying to take the record off Beatrix (well I am, but I'm going to do that by beating his RTA time), but I think we should figure what's the better choice here. It's like Super Metroid again.

Edit: I found some other things that save a scary amount of time. Will share them with you when I'm certain they work in single segment. Going to be playing most of today so hoping for that RTA PB.

I feel RTA should be the only option , since igt , dosen't account for out of chapter shop and pauses to change items, and restarts on death.

[quote="flicky"]So I'm thinking about this some more and I'm wondering if going back to how we used to do times would be a better option (that is, game time + real time together).

I beat my RTA earlier with a run I know is worse than my SDA one (2:19:41). It seems weird to think that the worse run is now WR. If I add the times together, the SDA run is better. Would anyone else be averse to going with this option? I don't  mind there being a game-time record, RTA record and a combined one, but when I think that this poor run (that is, MY poor run) is now being seen as better than my old one is odd.

I'm not trying to take the record off Beatrix (well I am, but I'm going to do that by beating his RTA time), but I think we should figure what's the better choice here. It's like Super Metroid again.

Edit: I found some other things that save a scary amount of time. Will share them with you when I'm certain they work in single segment. Going to be playing most of today so hoping for that RTA PB.[/quote]

I feel RTA should be the only option , since igt , dosen't account for out of chapter shop and pauses to change items, and restarts on death.

General_Beatrix

2014-02-08 10:58:18 am

Personally I don't care about game times, messing up in the shop, menu, item selecting etc.etc. should count against you, even if the game times are slower the entire run matters as a whole and not just the level times.

That's my opinion, though, and I'm new to running this so I don't think it even has any weight.

Quote:

Edit: I found some other things that save a scary amount of time. Will share them with you when I'm certain they work in single segment. Going to be playing most of today so hoping for that RTA PB.

Read: "I'll share them when I get a new WR time that uses them" lel

flicky

2014-02-08 12:10:34 pm

$15 per rant/allegory

Quote from General_Beatrix:

Personally I don't care about game times, messing up in the shop, menu, item selecting etc.etc. should count against you, even if the game times are slower the entire run matters as a whole and not just the level times.

That's my opinion, though, and I'm new to running this so I don't think it even has any weight.

Quote:

Edit: I found some other things that save a scary amount of time. Will share them with you when I'm certain they work in single segment. Going to be playing most of today so hoping for that RTA PB.

Read: "I'll share them when I get a new WR time that uses them" lel

well these are my notes if you want them:

Beloved at end of 1 strats
Fearless with staff in 3?
Fearless manip in 5
can fly to other platform in 7
Was doing something dumb for golems
lots of sloppy fights near the end.
Can actually hit Sapi during dives with PKP.
Beatrix XV jump this is cool.
Most time saved due to new strats, not shopping and not dying.

Run was without sound and mostly without red colour

[quote="General_Beatrix"]Personally I don't care about game times, messing up in the shop, menu, item selecting etc.etc. should count against you, even if the game times are slower the entire run matters as a whole and not just the level times.

That's my opinion, though, and I'm new to running this so I don't think it even has any weight.

[quote]Edit: I found some other things that save a scary amount of time. Will share them with you when I'm certain they work in single segment. Going to be playing most of today so hoping for that RTA PB.
[/quote]

Read: "I'll share them when I get a new WR time that uses them" lel[/quote]

well these are my notes if you want them:

Beloved at end of 1 strats
Fearless with staff in 3?
Fearless manip in 5
can fly to other platform in 7
Was doing something dumb for golems
lots of sloppy fights near the end.
Can actually hit Sapi during dives with PKP.
Beatrix XV jump this is cool.
Most time saved due to new strats, not shopping and not dying.

Run was without sound and mostly without red colour

General_Beatrix

Edit history:

General_Beatrix: 2014-02-08 12:33:17 pm

General_Beatrix: 2014-02-08 12:32:06 pm

General_Beatrix: 2014-02-08 12:15:17 pm

2014-02-08 12:12:42 pm

Neat, I'll go look into those. Thanks.

Quote:

Run was without sound and mostly without red colour

~~I'm reading this as you got a new time? Or am I wrong~~ Nevermind you said above you had a new time, my mistake.

I assume PKP hitting Sapi during dives is only his head phase while still in the above water part of the fight, or can you hit his arms too

Fakemasterpt

2014-02-08 12:46:41 pm

Quote from General_Beatrix:

Neat, I'll go look into those. Thanks.

Quote:

Run was without sound and mostly without red colour

~~I'm reading this as you got a new time? Or am I wrong~~ Nevermind you said above you had a new time, my mistake.

I assume PKP hitting Sapi during dives is only his head phase while still in the above water part of the fight, or can you hit his arms too

i actually though you knew about this =X

you can only pkp for sure during wt and when he is trowing you away in the hurricane of water you can get a few wicked weaves there

FakemasterPT

2014-02-08 12:49:08 pm

I actually got a new pb on my second jeanne ng+ attempt

http://www.twitch.tv/fakemasterpt/c/3686966

2:02:10

General_Beatrix

2014-02-08 12:50:40 pm

Oh I knew about that, I just went and tried something completely different then I guess? You can PKP/Tetsu when he's done his 2x Chomp attack and then dives towards you in the above water part when fighting his head, and still get the YB prompt if you finish him before he finishes his dive animations / resurfaces the last time.

I doubt that's unknown, I just misunderstood and tested something different that apparently works.

Also congrats Fakemaster, can you play as Jeanne with her white costume btw? this may or may not decide whether I ever touch NG+ in the future.

FakemasterPT

2014-02-08 12:52:55 pm

Quote from General_Beatrix:

Oh I knew about that, I just went and tried something completely different then I guess? You can PKP/Tetsu when he's done his 2x Chomp attack and then dives towards you in the above water part when fighting his head, and still get the YB prompt if you finish him before he finishes his dive animations / resurfaces the last time.

I doubt that's unknown, I just misunderstood and tested something different that apparently works.

Also congrats Fakemaster, can you play as Jeanne with her white costume btw? this may or may not decide whether I ever touch NG+ in the future.

yeah you can play with her cutie J costume , and the umbra witch costume *_*

i might do a run later tonight wearing that XP

flicky

2014-02-08 02:40:39 pm

$15 per rant/allegory

Quote from flicky:

Beloved at end of 1 strats
Fearless with staff in 3?
Fearless manip in 5
can fly to other platform in 7
Was doing something dumb for golems
lots of sloppy fights near the end.
Can actually hit Sapi during dives with PKP.
Beatrix XV jump this is cool.
Most time saved due to new strats, not shopping and not dying.

Run was without sound and mostly without red colour

Alright, to explain these:

The Beloved strat - I found some spots to attack from that means you actually hit him properly.
Fearless with Staff - I got a strange fight at the start of CH 3 that meant I had an extra staff which I tried on the Fearless. I don't think it's a strat worth pursuing.
Fearless/Fairness Manip - When you fight the two dogs, if you head towards the front left or right of the fire dog, you can manipulate into attacking you. The other dog jumps next to you and you can kill them both with claws.
Platform - For one of the Temperance rotations (Where he shoots downwards and slowly destroys the platform you're on) you can fly to the other platform, meaning two rounds of combos.
Golems - Manipulate the Dragon attack, Witch Time then Kilgore. I can't believe I wasn't doing this before.
Sapi during dive is what you guys were talking about, but it reduces the chance of him doing two dives in Phase 2.

I didn't buy any red hot shots in this run. Time saved through splits is as follows:

Fort Dead - New Beloved strat, Jump cancels on first Fort in CH 1. Very fortunate Jeanne, got a double hit on the Enchants flying around and got the sixth shot (now that I know how). Very fortunate CH3 Verse 1 fight.
Temperance Dead - One less shop, new Fairness/Fearless manip, new Temp strats (yellow lolly)
Iustitia - lost time despite new Golem. Bad Chapter X.
Sapi Dead - Bad Mother strats + extra shot on Jeanne + good Harmonies fight.
Jeanne Dead - Lost time.
Balder Dead - New Golem strat + Beatrix skip.
End - One less shop, but worse final stage.

[quote="flicky"]
Beloved at end of 1 strats
Fearless with staff in 3?
Fearless manip in 5
can fly to other platform in 7
Was doing something dumb for golems
lots of sloppy fights near the end.
Can actually hit Sapi during dives with PKP.
Beatrix XV jump this is cool.
Most time saved due to new strats, not shopping and not dying.

Run was without sound and mostly without red colour[/quote]

[img]http://i.imgur.com/cJwfDKh.jpg[/img]

Alright, to explain these:

The Beloved strat - I found some spots to attack from that means you actually hit him properly.
Fearless with Staff - I got a strange fight at the start of CH 3 that meant I had an extra staff which I tried on the Fearless. I don't think it's a strat worth pursuing.
Fearless/Fairness Manip - When you fight the two dogs, if you head towards the front left or right of the fire dog, you can manipulate into attacking you. The other dog jumps next to you and you can kill them both with claws.
Platform - For one of the Temperance rotations (Where he shoots downwards and slowly destroys the platform you're on) you can fly to the other platform, meaning two rounds of combos.
Golems - Manipulate the Dragon attack, Witch Time then Kilgore. I can't believe I wasn't doing this before.
Sapi during dive is what you guys were talking about, but it reduces the chance of him doing two dives in Phase 2.

I didn't buy any red hot shots in this run. Time saved through splits is as follows:

Fort Dead - New Beloved strat, Jump cancels on first Fort in CH 1. Very fortunate Jeanne, got a double hit on the Enchants flying around and got the sixth shot (now that I know how).  Very fortunate CH3 Verse 1 fight.
Temperance Dead - One less shop, new Fairness/Fearless manip, new Temp strats (yellow lolly)
Iustitia - lost time despite new Golem. Bad Chapter X.
Sapi Dead - Bad Mother strats + extra shot on Jeanne + good Harmonies fight.
Jeanne Dead - Lost time.
Balder Dead - New Golem strat + Beatrix skip.
End - One less shop, but worse final stage.

General_Beatrix

Edit history:

General_Beatrix: 2014-02-08 03:38:40 pm

2014-02-08 03:37:46 pm

Good time, but I just got this. Glad I had this recording with good video settings too. IGT was 1:33:05

FakemasterPT

2014-02-08 03:39:21 pm

Quote from General_Beatrix:

Good time, but I just got this. Glad I had this recording with good settings too. IGT was 1:33:05

the improvements !!! i kinda want to see the strats you guys have been using.

Can you guys post videos of it?

General_Beatrix

2014-02-08 03:40:16 pm

Im going to stream this run in like 30 minutes, (after 11pm my ISP won't destroy my upload speed)

FakemasterPT

2014-02-08 03:41:31 pm

Quote from General_Beatrix:

Im going to stream this run in like 30 minutes, (after 11pm my ISP won't destroy my upload speed)

wanna see it over skype?

General_Beatrix

2014-02-08 03:47:44 pm

Gunna stream it with no other audio just so I have it somewhere tbh, I dont want to have to render out a massive 2 and a half hour run or upload the raw 21gb recording lmao

General_Beatrix

Edit history:

General_Beatrix: 2014-02-11 11:24:38 pm

General_Beatrix: 2014-02-11 11:24:33 pm

2014-02-11 09:58:59 pm

Final boss gave me a pretty brutal pattern, 1 punch, 2 wormhole instant kill things and a set of those swirly things. Still, new time at 2:16:28 (1:32:12 IGT)

http://i.imgur.com/4oOv2PK.jpg

Stormknight

2014-02-12 01:03:33 pm

Now Reap The Whirlwind!

Hey guys. I've been considering getting into this game. I've been doing my own practice and I have been watching the runs from Flicky and General Beatrix. I have a couple questions about some things. Pretty much just about particular tricks I've seen that I haven't been able to replicate myself or other general questions.

1. In the beginning of the run, in chapter 1, some weird attack combo is used to move around until you get air dodge. It looks like PKP, jump, then repeat quickly. However, I can't seem to figure it out.

2. In chapter 3, right after the first verse, when you enter that alley and the big lava flow starts to chase you, every time I skip the cutscene of the lava appearing, it instantly kills me. I'm not sure how to prevent that.

3. In chapter 5, after you leave the tower, after verse 9, how do you do that skip that gets you up to the chest with the LP piece of Durga?

4. In chapter 6, after verse 1, in the room with the statues, how exactly is that statue skip done? I got what moves to use, but I can't seem to find the right place on the rock lip.

5. In chapter 8, has anyone done testing on if going on the off ramps and going on the bridge supports is any faster? Just curious

6. Jeanne seems like the most difficult boss in the run. Any new ideas? I saw in the runs that PPPKKK is used with Durga. I've also been using PPKKK and it's been working fairly well. Most of the time, if you hit her with the first K, then she'll always get hit by the Durga bomb.

7. Is there some sort of trick to get more out of the button mashing times, particularly in chapter 14? I noticed this in the SDA run. If there isn't any kind of trick, then Flicky must be some sort of mashing god.

I think this is about everything. I'll see if I can't come up with anything to contribute to the run.

Hey guys. I've been considering getting into this game. I've been doing my own practice and I have been watching the runs from Flicky and General Beatrix. I have a couple questions about some things. Pretty much just about particular tricks I've seen that I haven't been able to replicate myself or other general questions.

1. In the beginning of the run, in chapter 1, some weird attack combo is used to move around until you get air dodge. It looks like PKP, jump, then repeat quickly. However, I can't seem to figure it out.

2. In chapter 3, right after the first verse, when you enter that alley and the big lava flow starts to chase you, every time I skip the cutscene of the lava appearing, it instantly kills me. I'm not sure how to prevent that.

3. In chapter 5, after you leave the tower, after verse 9, how do you do that skip that gets you up to the chest with the LP piece of Durga?

4. In chapter 6, after verse 1, in the room with the statues, how exactly is that statue skip done? I got what moves to use, but I can't seem to find the right place on the rock lip.

5. In chapter 8, has anyone done testing on if going on the off ramps and going on the bridge supports is any faster? Just curious

6. Jeanne seems like the most difficult boss in the run. Any new ideas? I saw in the runs that PPPKKK is used with Durga. I've also been using PPKKK and it's been working fairly well. Most of the time, if you hit her with the first K, then she'll always get hit by the Durga bomb.

7. Is there some sort of trick to get more out of the button mashing times, particularly in chapter 14? I noticed this in the SDA run. If there isn't any kind of trick, then Flicky must be some sort of mashing god.

I think this is about everything. I'll see if I can't come up with anything to contribute to the run.

General_Beatrix

Edit history:

General_Beatrix: 2014-02-12 01:09:46 pm

2014-02-12 01:09:19 pm

1: Punch cancelling with P jump P

2: Are you playing on ps3? never had that happen on 360, might be a loading thing

3: Afterburner x 2, wall kick, after burner or Stilleto to finish

4: Practice, took me a couple days to get it consistently, shoot to leave bird form and wall kick

5: You want to stay on the right hand lane all the time as any collision on the oncoming traffic instant kills, going over the supports changes your lane

6: All luck, she's a pain in the ass

7: There are two shoot buttons, I honestly had no clue how Flicky mashed that fast until I started doing it the way he does. Rub the back of your nail over the two shoot buttons, it's extremely fast but will tire your hand out a bit.

Stormknight

2014-02-12 01:42:33 pm

Now Reap The Whirlwind!

Alright. I'll get to work on that. Thank you.

In response to 2, I'm on the 360 version. I have an instant to do something before I get killed. I don't know what's up with it.

flicky

2014-02-12 02:25:50 pm

$15 per rant/allegory

2. Try holding away from the lava and skipping the cutscene using your right hand.
4. There are four broken iron bars on the wall that line up with where you need to wall kick. Aim for those, when the wall pushes your crow downwards, shoot to break form then wall kick in.
6. The problem with PPKKK is that you cannot get three charged bombs. It will go through as PPKK*K which isn't a bomb attack.

Stormknight

2014-02-12 04:09:15 pm

Now Reap The Whirlwind!

Hrm. Alright. Thanks again

General_Beatrix

Edit history:

General_Beatrix: 2014-02-28 07:23:52 am

2014-02-28 07:22:22 am

Found a new skip on Chapter 6, saves like 20 seconds or something, lets you skip the chase sequence and Cereza can do whatever she wants while you run past the doors without being held back.

Having trouble reproducing it repeatedly honestly, I found it by accident, can't quite figure out how to make it work every single time. I think it's something to do with flying past the barrier and throwing a box super quickly, or just flying past the barrier, not sure. Either way he can wail on Cereza's shield and nothing happens

FakemasterPT

2014-04-12 01:42:46 am

if people are still running this let me share my nsic no item run

http://www.twitch.tv/fakemasterpt/c/4003209

General_Beatrix

Edit history:

General_Beatrix: 2014-04-15 01:09:16 pm

2014-04-15 01:08:03 pm

Back to trying to find new strats on this now and practicing for ESA, found some time savers and quality of life improvements.

I've been playing around with Lolly use and seeing where I can drop a shop visit. Buying Selene's Light fairly early during another shop (Most likely during the Kilgore pick up) saves needing to go there again when you would normally for the 200,000 Accessory. This obviously changes some fights and gives you less Lollies. Still testing this.

Having Selene's Light during Chapter 12 has made Jeanne much more friendly, being able to punish her bad RNG with Kilgore Combos or PPPKK's is nice so this is definitely a big plus for using it.

Less Lollies after the few Yellows you buy isn't really an issue unless you're too slow at mashing Chapter 14, and you can make more Yellows at any point anyway. Again, Chapter 14 Jeanne is more manageable to punish because you can just take damage and Kilgore / PPPK.

Large Red Lolly on Chapter 15's Turret section does literally nothing, the time saved to buy/make and use that lolly is longer than the time it saves using it I think.

Due to not having the Counter attack on Father Baldur, I've started doing Selene's Light with 2-3 Purple Lollies. Even with crap RNG (which I uploaded on purpose as an example) the fight is still comparable to Parries. Kilgore framerate slowdown really is bad.

Finally on the final boss if you just ignore the last wing exploding QTE, she always does the turn you into a child attack -> Punches, it's a couple seconds faster than doing the QTE. I've managed to skip the final wing exploding a couple times but I'm not sure how, trying to figure it out.

Back to trying to find new strats on this now and practicing for ESA, found some time savers and quality of life improvements.

I've been playing around with Lolly use and seeing where I can drop a shop visit. Buying Selene's Light fairly early during another shop (Most likely during the Kilgore pick up) saves needing to go there again when you would normally for the 200,000 Accessory. This obviously changes some fights and gives you less Lollies. Still testing this.

Having Selene's Light during Chapter 12 has made Jeanne much more friendly, being able to punish her bad RNG with Kilgore Combos or PPPKK's is nice so this is definitely a big plus for using it.

Less Lollies after the few Yellows you buy isn't really an issue unless you're too slow at mashing Chapter 14, and you can make more Yellows at any point anyway. Again, Chapter 14 Jeanne is more manageable to punish because you can just take damage and Kilgore / PPPK.

Large Red Lolly on Chapter 15's Turret section does literally nothing, the time saved to buy/make and use that lolly is longer than the time it saves using it I think.

Due to not having the Counter attack on Father Baldur, I've started doing Selene's Light with 2-3 Purple Lollies. Even with crap RNG (which I uploaded on purpose as an example) the fight is still comparable to Parries. Kilgore framerate slowdown really is bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VvUH622Nr0&

Finally on the final boss if you just ignore the last wing exploding QTE, she always does the turn you into a child attack -> Punches, it's a couple seconds faster than doing the QTE. I've managed to skip the final wing exploding a couple times but I'm not sure how, trying to figure it out.

General_Beatrix

Edit history:

General_Beatrix: 2014-04-21 04:29:29 pm

General_Beatrix: 2014-04-21 04:26:21 pm

2014-04-21 04:25:32 pm

Ignore the last part of my previous post, do not attempt it, it's 5 seconds faster but it's not 100% as I previously thought. In practice I did in 10 or more times in a row without fail, she would give me a child transformation into a punch and end the fight. I finally get a good run going and she decides to not do what I thought was a guaranteed faster strat.

https://i.imgur.com/sjcZdVL.jpg < splits

Either way, new PB / WR at 2:13:51 which is a 37 second improvement over my previous time. There's still another 2 minutes at least to come off this from the last boss and dumb shit alone. Selene's Light strats are objectively faster, over 10 seconds ahead of a perfect parry fight in RTA with a pretty meh fight on Baldur alone, then counting the time saved from bad RNG on Jeanne 2 and 3 you can punish hard and it blows Moon of Mahaa Kalaa away