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twitch.tv/fiveleafclover
I joined SDA forums ages ago to make this thread but I lost interest in running BK a few days later so I never got around to it, but now I've decided to start running BK again.

Before I start - Is PAL BK any slower than NTSC BK like a lot of PAL games are? I'm just not sure if it's my controller being a bit worn out in the joystick department or if it's the game itself, but I'm finding it very difficult to break some of the times that DMG set even when flawlessly executing his routes (some of which I find absolutely appalling, but we'll get to that =P). Example: my MM best time is 6:45, even though I used DMG's route exactly.

Anyway, if it is slower, how much 'leeway' time do I have between 2:55:01 and the time necessary to be considered for uploading? My best time is hovering around the 3:20 mark, but I feel that I can get below 3:15 easily enough since my best run included a loss to Vile in the 3rd round which I had to redo and waste 3 1/2 minutes in the process XD

So, that's over and done with...

I'm not going to bother listing my best times because other than CC (my best is something like 11:30.) and BGS (although my BGS run that went sub-16:20 [16:18] had a loss in the 3rd round of Vile that I never bothered to follow up; I'd estimate that if I beat Vile it would have turned out at around 16:25, from the text skipping and jiggy collection rather than just high-tailing it out of the crocodile) the times are mostly not particularly impressive.

My early routes can be found in my speed run guide. It hasn't been updated since July in 2007 because I can't update the guide myself any more (I won't go into specifics), but it's got the routes I use (although some of the alt routes that I suggest in my guide aren't used since they're slower than Marshmallow's routes).

Anyway, here's what I'm having trouble with - basically, everything post-BGS. I have a habit of rage-quitting when I lose to Vile (which happens a lot), so I've ended up with really good SM -> BGS routes but no idea what to do with GV -> CCW. At the moment I have no real set route for the later levels, I just go around the level as fast as I can and usually end up either missing something or just completely screwing up. I just need route suggestions.

I'm well aware of some of the time-savers (I actually discovered the GV WS skip and beak buster dive for myself), but some of them are definitely not reliable, so I'm not going to be using said unreliable ones (like trying to fly-cancel the jiggy dance when really close to the ground).  Otherwise, if there's a time saver that I haven't mentioned, post it in case I haven't seen it before =)

Anyway, if anyone would like to give me a hand with this run, eg helping me with routes or whatever, my MSN is in my profile (it should be anyway, if it's not I'll update it). I've also got AIM but I never use it >_>

--

One last thing - I've been thinking of for BK, and that is a run using the open RBB and open CCW cheats to cut down the necessary amount of jiggies by 27, as well as removing 90 notes and 24 honeycombs from the equation entirely. I'd be looking at about 2:20 or so as an optimal time (pure speculation). Would anyone be interested in that?
Thread title:  
I'm very well interested.  Smiley I read through your guide a while ago and was really impressed. I have a timesaver at TTC to get the blue jinjo but it doesn't fit well with your TTC route.

Edit history:
DRybes: 2008-02-15 11:42:46 am
O Zlda?
A non-100% cheat run would be up to the guys who run this site. It could be interesting but it's essentially the any% run mentioned not too long ago, minus 27 jiggies as you said. The cheats also take a long time to enter because they're whole sentences. That's close to 10 minutes of your run right there. I mean, I'd watch it, but I think your efforts are better spent on an any% or a 100%. Seeing as how both an any% and a cheats any% would require similar amounts of strategy about which notes and jiggies to skip... and seeing as how the any% would require just as much skill as the 100%... well, maybe you should go for a 100%.

If you're finding that identical things take you longer than your game probably runs at 5/6 speed which means you'd multiply DMG's time by 6/5 for comparison. Thus DMG's 2:55 is equivalent to a PAL 3:30. Assuming the game does indeed run at 5/6 speed then you've already got him beaten.

Over at TASvideos forum under N64 is a thread about this game and someone's doing a tool assisted 100% run of it on Mupen. If you check out the thread, his current work in progress (which you can download as an emulator playback file) is up to completion of Freezeezy Peak and entrance of Gobi Valley. You're on your own to download the things required to play back that run, but it could potentially show you ways to improve your strategy. The thread also contains quite a bit of discussion about the fastest ways to do various things (granted, many of them difficult to do on a console) so it's worth a look if you're interested.
Visually Appealing
Quote:

If you're finding that identical things take you longer than your game probably runs at 5/6 speed which means you'd multiply your time by 6/5 for comparison.


don't confuse him. if it runs at 5/6, he should multiply by 5/6. you multiply NTSC times by 6/5 to get PAL times, not the other way around.
twitch.tv/fiveleafclover
Quote:
I'm very well interested.  Smiley I read through your guide a while ago and was really impressed. I have a timesaver at TTC to get the blue jinjo but it doesn't fit well with your TTC route.



Actually, I've managed to sorta merge the two routes together, so that does definitely fit into my TTC route. If I can pull it off consistently it'll save a couple seconds for sure, thanks =)

Quote:
a rather long post


Thanks, I'll definitely look into it. Unfortunately, the video doesn't deal with the later stages of the game that I'm really interested in since that's where I fail so hard, but I'll definitely be keeping my eye on that one.

3:30 par time, eh? Well, in that case I should probably aim for about 3:15, as I said... if the time isn't affected by the 5/6 thing then I'm going to have to get a new controller it seems >_<
O Zlda?
Quote:

don't confuse him. if it runs at 5/6, he should multiply by 5/6. you multiply NTSC times by 6/5 to get PAL times, not the other way around.

Yeah I messed up and said "your" instead of "DMG's". Fixed by edit.

The point was I wanted to convert Marshmallow's time to PAL, not all of this guy's PAL times to NTSC, so that only that one conversion need be done.
twitch.tv/fiveleafclover
Hey guys, I haven't forgotten about this thing XD

But I'll be streaming a live run of BK on the 13th of April if anyone's interested (if you are I'll post a bit more about it)
Banjo Kazooie (PAL) runs at full speed.
torch slug since 2006
Quote:
Hey guys, I haven't forgotten about this thing XD

But I'll be streaming a live run of BK on the 13th of April if anyone's interested (if you are I'll post a bit more about it)


Looking forward to it.
twitch.tv/fiveleafclover
Quote:
Banjo Kazooie (PAL) runs at full speed.


you're sure? I've pulled off perfect MM runs with the exact same route as Marshmallow and only barely hit sub-7 minutes, same with Spiral Mountain. Even rolljumping, which is faster and can't be affected by a crappy analogue stick doesn't hit 2:20 on SM.

Oh well.
THE GAME!!
Could someone link me to a BK video in PAL? It's been years since i've played the PAL version of BK.
SEGA Junkie
How authoritative this is I don't really know, but I checked my Banjo-Tooie cartridge against the (at the time) existing speedrun and they ran at the same speed, leading me to conclude no PAL/NTSC difference there.

But then, BT is two or three years newer. Things got better around then with regards to 50/60Hz relations.
torch slug since 2006
I got pal version off this game to my n64. and i think actually it runs slower but idk, 1 game that im sure off that it runs slower is ocarina of time but majoras mask runs at ntsc speed, so i think, that banjo kazooie got this, but idk... but one things for sure, that the ntsc version has a lot off sharper lines, the pal versions is lots more un-sharp (sorry i dont know the word in english). but thats my thought, i can do a pal version video with a digicam and i can record marshmallows run too...
I let the game run for 5 minutes, then checked the timer again. Guess what? Exactly five minutes more on the timer.

I know it's not as easy as it looks to get close to the Spiral Mountain time. I tried it for fun a while ago and managed to get within a couple of seconds of marshmellow's Spiral Mountain, but that is still a lot for a level of only two minutes. Anyway, if you don't know where you lose time, make a vid and compare it side by side.
twitch.tv/fiveleafclover
Quote:
I let the game run for 5 minutes, then checked the timer again. Guess what? Exactly five minutes more on the timer.


That is not where the slowdown occurs. If it did a PAL run would be faster, not slower.

The problem is that the refresh rate or framerate (I think it's the refresh rate) is slower than the NTSC version at a ratio of 5/6, and a number of N64 games are slower at the same ratio because of this.

As people have said earlier, a good percentage of N64 games make up for it in one way or another, but unless Marshmallow had a brand-new controller with a perfectly rigid joystick when he completed his run there's no reason why I shouldn't be getting the same times using his routes unless there's a time difference.



Also, the speed run channel is up on Ustream.tv (it's not active yet though lol).

I'll be streaming a live practice run on Sunday at 9:00 AM my time (i.e. GMT+10), check it out.

Here is the link. (don't bother clicking on it yet though, there's nothing there atm)

Anyway I'm trying to lay my hands on a good DVD recorder so I can actually record this bloody thing (my old one died =<).
THE GAME!!
Live!? Wow!!
SEGA Junkie
GMT +10?

We have another Aussie! There's not enough of us here as you can tell.
twitch.tv/fiveleafclover
heh yeah =)

well the live cast is starting in an hour for those interested.
THE GAME!!
I'm in New Zealand. Hi neighbour!
twitch.tv/fiveleafclover
idk how many people from here actually watched it, but for those who didn't, the final time was 3:44:57, with something like half an hour of mistakes haha

But I did get Vile and the RBB engine room the first time which was good I guess =)

If you want more info you can find it on Spiral Mountain (there's a link there in the first post I believe), there's a thread up there in the BK section.
torch slug since 2006
Has the live run been or have I not missed it :D? Can anyone see what time GMT+10 is in Swedish..
Edit history:
Juice: 2008-04-14 01:57:20 am
I Found a little trick in Banjo today, and it might be useful, i dunno.

at mumbos mountain at the entrance, where you have to become the ant and climb the mountain and get the jiggy, I found a trick where you dont have to become an ant and you can get up there just as banjo and kazooie.

Its not necessarily the trick that is useful (because I'm pretty sure it just as fast to get it as the when your done the level) But it's the way I do it that is.

To do it, I went to the left side of the mountain (banjos left, when your facing the entrance), I went into bird walk, and i went at an angle so that I was sort of rubbing against the wall. By doing this and jumping up the mountain, I got a bigger boost of momentum up the mountain for some reason. I did one jump, then immidiatly did another, pressed B to do the bird squack in teh air, then i held crouch and did a big Z jump to the jiggy. It took me a while to pull off, but I did it :).

Using that momentum trick would not only help find new tricks, but it could also be a faster way of getting up steep hills. Does anyone else no anywhere else this might be useful?



Now somebody tell me that this hasn't been found before so that I didn't waste my time :P. If it turns out it hasn't been found and could possibly be useful, I'll record it.
I think that's old cause I've seen it in a TAS before.

Shame I missed the live run but I hope to catch it next week.  Grin
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Quote:
Now somebody tell me that this hasn't been found before so that I didn't waste my time :P. If it turns out it hasn't been found and could possibly be useful, I'll record it.


I don't think using talon trot helped at all.  It's much easier to climb that slope if you don't use talon trot.

The reason why that slope is so difficult to climb is that the second section from the top (i.e. the steepest one) is programmed to automatically make you slide no matter what.  Due to how slopes work in this game, if you are ever above that slope then you will slip next time you touch any slope unless you land on flat ground first (which may be the flat area on the top.)

The way around this is to jump over it normally, then use a beak buster to cover the rest of the distance.
Quote:
I think that's old cause I've seen it in a TAS before.

Shame I missed the live run but I hope to catch it next week.  Grin


Where can I find the TAS?