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kowbrainz: 2008-08-14 05:56:25 am
I haven't played around with Click Clock Wood, to be perfectly honest. Sami isn't up to it in his run either, but I might be trying a few things differently next time I run it.

The only problem with devising routes is that if you alter things too much you wont have enough grubs for Eyrie, of course. So route making needs to take them and Mumbo Tokens into account.

Grubs that I know of from memory (there may be errors here):
SUMMER:
1. Near entrance under leaf
2. Above autumn switch
3. In dried up water-moat area, opposite side of Gnawty
4. On one of the tree 'roots', far side of Mumbo's hut from entrance
5. Inside Mumbo's Hut (not reccommended to collect)
6. On leaf, tree branch above mumbo's
7. Outside incomplete treehouse on branch
8. On wood platform outside Nabnut's house with grublin enemy

AUTUMN:
9. Leaf Stack near entrance
10. under bird opposite mumbo's hut
11. Inside mumbo's hut
12. Leaf stack between flower and mumbo's hut, near bird on tree 'root'
13. Leaf stack near orange jinjo and flower
14. Same place as #6 in Summer
15. On beehive
16. Inside beehive
17. wood platform underneath treehouse
18. Inside Nabnut's house on table
19. Behind Eyrie
20. Outside whipcrack room, past eyrie's nest (lol... you won't be getting this one)

Mumbo Tokens really depend on your routes for other levels. I've been meaning to write up a list of which ones to collect, but I probably won't do anything until routes are finalised.

On Gruntilda: I notice that Marshmallow's ended up with 24 red feathers at the end of Click Clock Wood, and he only uses 13 in the fight, which includes a missed beak bomb and a few wasted feathers to gain height. So I think it would be reasonable to go into the fight without a red feather boost if you have 15-20 reds; you can collect a few during the 2nd phase if you really need to.

Edit: I just tested the beak bust invulnerability trick in two more places. Unfortunately you can't use it for the spinning fans in Rusty Bucket Bay, which is a real shame since it would've been rather cool to go in there without slowing them down first. However, you can use the trick against Gruntilda, both her fireballs and the homing spell. She'll say that she hit you after the spell collides, but you won't lose any damage if you time it right. Smiley
Hmm... didn't commit to a full run today AGAIN. Lol... hopefully I'll stick to my word one of these days.

Instead, I've just been playing around with tricks early on in the game; I'll put a video up soon. I tried a no-termite run, ending after I collected the Mumbo's Mountain witch switch jiggy, and my time was roughly 15 minutes. Quite a bit of time wasted in Ticker's Tower (haven't practiced it with Banjo for a little while) and a lot for the witch switch jiggy.

I only just collected the witch switch jiggy for the first time with Banjo today, but I've practiced and have managed to collect it four times in total now, each time getting a little easier than the last. Should become consistant soon, I'm hoping. Same with Ticker's Tower.

I'll post the video up when it's done so that we can look at changing the routes slightly and whatnot. The time was only 8.35 for Mumbo's Mountain, which is pretty good IMO since the route wasn't routine and the tricks are a pain in the arse to pull off at the moment. I reckon it'll be worth it later though; 30 seconds saved time or more overall, plus 4-5 extra mumbo tokens to play with.  8)
I mucked around trying to get up Ticker's tower, it's easy to get upto the second level, I had a lot of trouble getting any furthur, in fact I couldnt get any furthur. I personally probably wouldn't use it, i'd lose my mind restarting the run so many times.

As for mumbo tokens ive never had trouble with having enough in click clock, I always end up having more than I need. I'm trying however to not get the one in the lighthouse but i'm always short when I get to freezeezy, however if I do freezeezy after Gobi's as you do it might not be an issue.

No other updates on my front.
^Ticker's tower is the easy part at the moment. If you're able to get up to the second level, the rest is usually easy. Sometimes I can go straight through it in the same amount of time it takes for the termite, so it's just a matter of practice.
I remember playing this game... so fun.
Hrmph. Looks like I need to find another means of capturing in Mp.4.
I downloaded a few compression codecs the other day as well as Virtual Dub, but no matter what I try I can't compress the avi from my capture device, and it continues to come out at roughly 200mb per minute. Which would be lovely if this were a five minute run, but it isn't. Sad

I'm using a laptop at the moment, so I can't use actual capture cards for the thing, but I'm looking into some other, 'tv box' capture devices from leadtek, since I don't really want a dvd recorder. I'll try and do a little more research before I go out and purchase anything, but hopefully something works and gets the job done.

Anyway, on the subject of the run... I tried to have a run through the game yesterday, but something weird happened in Gobi's Valley. I tested out the beak bomb trick for Gobi's jiggy and finally got it to work after a few attempts, but what boggled my mind was an odd glitch with the jinjo jiggy.

The last jinjo I collected was the yellow, but at that point I'd wasted quite a bit of time so I decided to get it, then run off and do some other stuff so I could save time picking up the jiggy when I left, either while flying or with the shoes as you described earlier. But when I came back for the jiggy at the end, it was gone. Nowhere in sight; I left the level with only 9 out of 10 jiggies.  Undecided

I'm hoping this weirdness doesn't affect me in future runs... would certainly suck.

Anyway, I'm going to have to practice picking up the three notes above the shockspring pillar in TTC; they mucked me up again after a perfect run. I recorded it though, so I'll put up a video of that soon. Time was 10.14 after a few mistakes at the end. We can work on the route together once you've seen the video.
Yeh cool, ive been brainstorming some idea's for a new treasure trove route combining parts of yours with mine, I think we can find something good. No other news...
I also had a play around in Click Clock Wood the other day, and I'm unsure whether it's actually faster to climb the tree on the leaves or the other way. I recorded some of my random testing though, so I'll go back and scrutinise it further when I have time. Scaling the leaves in autumn is pretty tricky; for the first few jumps you have to get used to jumping before you start sliding with the talon trot from the last jump, otherwise you'll fall off. I'll definitely use it in summer since it will save an extra trip down the tree for the jiggy on the branch, but I'm still not sure about autumn.

In either case, I'll give it a look then start writing up a route for the level. I reckon this level will be a lot easier to plan than others, though.
Quote:
I'll definitely use it in summer since it will save an extra trip down the tree for the jiggy on the branch, but I'm still not sure about autumn.


That was the conclusion I came to also.

Well I have some news today. I had a very good run of treasure trove with my route plus a small alteration, (flying to get the orange jinjo). Anyway, i'll have some money this week so i'll buy what I need to start uploading some clips. I made a couple of small mistakes, I calculate wasted about 10 seconds in all, but the rest was very good and i got... 9:36. So i'm feeling pretty confident my route is very good.
Mm... I'm thinking about altering my TTC route slightly now to get the orange jinjo last, but wow, that sounds awesome.

As I've said before (from what I recall, anyway... lol) I'm willing to take more risks at the start of the run. The last one I usually take is the Clanker's Cavern pipe jump; I've screwed that up a couple of times, but it's so worth it if you can pull it off properly.

I don't suppose you're flying into the lockup for its jiggy. I need to practice that a bit, but I may wait until you've shown me your route before I start practising things until perfect. Just incase you don't know: BK only autosaves when the screen wipes out to a new location, and not after each jiggy. Therefore if you want to practise things in a world, do what you need to do if it includes getting a jiggy, then turn the power off before you enter a door or new room to avoid the game saving your progress.

I'm still going to practice the Mumbo's Mountain witch switch jiggy with Banjo, I reckon. It's so tempting since it's so early into the game. I've pulled it off six times so far over a couple of playing sessions last week; I'm really hoping I can get it to a stage where I can perform it within the first three attempts. Scaling ticker's tower is getting easier and easier each time, so I don't see why this shouldn't be the same.

Other thing... SM route currently uses the colliwobble jump: I basically use the exact same route as the TAS except I don't bother with the bottles text skip at the top of the mountain. Colliwobble jump is easiest for me if I roll flip from just outside the yellow grass, into it and towards the wall, pressing A to flip as I touch the wall. Should become something I can do consistantly; much easier to pull off than any of this madness I'm trying in MM and TTC. Tongue



EDIT: Oh, let me know what you end up buying, btw; I still need a new method to record in SDA-acceptable quality.
yeh ive pulled that backflip off very few times, but im interested in using it (spiral mountain). I didn't know about the screen wipe, I thought it was every jiggy, thanks that will help a lot. And clanker's pipe jump has been pissing me off lately, I had a patch where I always got it but lately it's been a bitch so ive found an easier way to do it. I believe you guys use talon trot but I use a backflip (you would have noticed in my clip), but you know as you do a backflip you slide for a little distance, if you slide up the side of the pipe and launch the backflip from on the edge of the pipe (inside), it gets you a lot higher and plenty of time to do a flap up on top. I did it consistently about 10 times today, the worst that happens is you hit the roof, but you don't fall.
I've been using the talon trot method for a while now, so I probably won't switch unless I'm finding it's killing a lot of my runs. Pyro's suggested that it be used over a flip in the past due to it being easier to slide off, but I'm not too worried about that. I can work with slippery slopes pretty well now after so much time spent in Ticker's Tower... XD

The spiral mountain flip... I get it about once every three times currently, but that can get better as I haven't used it too much yet. I'm glad BK's intro cutscene is skippable, lol; otherwise there'd be no chance that I'd bother with this stuff.
Quote:
The spiral mountain flip... I get it about once every three times currently, but that can get better as I haven't used it too much yet. I'm glad BK's intro cutscene is skippable, lol; otherwise there'd be no chance that I'd bother with this stuff.


Yeh, however sometimes im forced to watch the cutscene just after spiral mountain, it especially happens when I use the first file. And very rarely it forces me to watch the first cutscene. Strange.
Forces you to watch the first one? Wow, I've never had that happen to me. Although I can certainly relate to the second one (it happened in Marshmallow's run, too).

It happens a lot more often on the first file for me as well; only rarely when I use other files. It is a bit of an annoyance, but I guess it isn't too long in comparison to the ones at the end of the run. If I end up recording a run I can bet I'll be tempted to reset the game after Grunty so I can see my times without viewing all of the cutscenes. Tongue
TTC in 10:14 -

I'm thinking of changing this so that I drain the sandcastle early on but dont enter it; instead, shock springing back up from Leaky and talking to bottles, then getting the pink jinjo early so that Orange becomes my last one collected like in the TAS. Puts a bit less stress on the last flying segment; I just need to practise getting the notes in midair above the shock spring pillar now.

I'll upload a video of Mumbo's Mountain in 8.45 without Termite in a sec; ticker's tower isn't usually as bad as it went in this run; I usually only waste a few seconds max. I also forget some notes before Conga, which is lol worthy. It's quite sloppy overall, but if I can manage to master the witch switch jiggy trick at the end, then I'll be sure to practise this route further. And by master, I mean getting the jiggy within the first three attempts or so.

Edit: MM in 8.45 w/o termite:
Ahh now I see how you get up Tickers Tower. Id been trying to talon trot jump up. Very clever indeed. You must be using ntsc I assume? It looks a lot faster to the Banjo I play. Treasure Trove Cove didn't work. PS I hate Clanker's cavern.
My version is PAL... I'm in Australia too. Tongue
There's virtually no difference between the speeds of NTSC and PAL anyway, so it doesn't matter.

And yeah, youtube's being stupid right now; for some reason it decided it could process the MM vid through but not the TTC one. It should be up soon.
Yes, I hate Clanker's Cavern too; at the moment it doesn't matter what I do, I can't get my time improved. I'll keep trying it, though.
Quote:
Yes, I hate Clanker's Cavern too; at the moment it doesn't matter what I do, I can't get my time improved. I'll keep trying it, though.


I cant even manage to survive anymore. Well its either that or I fall off the stupid pipe even with my new trick. Where in Australia do you live? Im in Vic.
The starting pipe? Hmm.
I lose time during the anvil and key segment, all the time. Everything else is usually okay. And yet, I always get something between 11.20 and 11.40. Don't see how I'm meant to get 10.50 like Pyro claims.  Undecided
Mad Monster is another level I hate right now; at the moment I keep practicing clearing out the well with Banjo, which is a little unorthadox but it would save some time if I can pull it off consistantly. But right now, it either loses time, or makes me die/drown completely... XD

I'm over in Perth. Pyro's in some remote area of NSW, lol.

Anyway, I have a bit of spare time this weekend, but I'm unsure what I'll be doing to practice; whether I should go for a full game run finally or just tweak my routes and practice individual levels. I still don't really have much of an idea as to how I should be doing GV, MMM and FP.
Considering how close we live to each other I have an idea. I have a dvd recorder, I could record a run or a few worlds or whatever and send you a dvd and you could watch them that way, it would probably be faster than waiting until I get the equipment to start uploading myself. And And you could possibly even upload a few clips using my youtube account. If it wouldn't be too much hastle of course. But at the very least I could send you a dvd or video.
Edit history:
kowbrainz: 2008-08-20 05:21:26 am
If that's easiest for you, then yeah, I guess that'd be okay. Email is in profile if you need to contact me.

I need to get a DVD recorder of my own, I reckon. It'd probably be a better idea than wasting my time with other recording formats and not even knowing if they were going to work or not.

The TTC vid works now; it's pretty good up until the last flying segment, but I already know some ways I could change the route for next time.

Oh, and here's a video of me trying some random stuff in CCW if you're interested (probably not :P). Some are just general tips, other things are stuff that could possibly be worked into a run.
Oh, when you said use talon trot  to scale the tree i thought you meant when you have to jump in and out of the crevices use the talon trot. Of course I use it for the rest of the world, in fact ive started practicing doing it in all parts anyway. The jump down in summer, I do at the same place during spring, as ive said im still not sure about the summer route, but that caterpillar might come in handy. Where you jumped down to the beehive in auttum will be a big help, ive been trying to find a good place to do it and that looks like the best place.

In other news I can now very easily get up Tickers tower without the Ant, but getting the witch switch jiggy seems impossible. If you go to the very left of the mound and talon trot jump twice you miss the top level by millemetres, im guessing the game put in some invisible wall type thing to stop someone getting lucky, how unfortunate though that would be so usefull. So at the moment i'm thinking, go up tickers tower as banjo, but still get the ant just as your leaving and use it to get the jiggy on top of the mound in Grunty's Lair, it's a pity but unless an easier way is found...

Im going to try a good run through with the slightly altered route, going up tickers as banjo, and get an accurate time reading, your probably trying to do the same thing. It also includes jumping up the mound to get the honeycomb which is pretty easy. Id say our routes would be the same now if they wern't already, thanks for the Ticker's Tower Trick, I hope you don't mind me using it.
Man Treasure Trove is looking niiice. Im still doubtful that flying to say, the honeycomb on the floating crate is faster than jumping there, but getting the lockup jiggy and then flying straight upto the top is deffinitely a time saving route, good work.
Edit history:
kowbrainz: 2008-08-20 08:10:31 am
Quote from Gibbatizer:
In other news I can now very easily get up Tickers tower without the Ant, but getting the witch switch jiggy seems impossible. If you go to the very left of the mound and talon trot jump twice you miss the top level by millemetres, im guessing the game put in some invisible wall type thing to stop someone getting lucky, how unfortunate though that would be so usefull. So at the moment i'm thinking, go up tickers tower as banjo, but still get the ant just as your leaving and use it to get the jiggy on top of the mound in Grunty's Lair, it's a pity but unless an easier way is found...



Did you watch the very end of that vid for the witch switch jiggy? I've tried the talon trot method several times over and I can never get it to work; the method that I currently use (and which is used in the TAS) I've gotten to work 6 times now; but I just need practice I think. My initial run of Ticker's tower without the termite took half an hour, so I'm pretty sure I can get the witch switch jiggy down to a couple of attempts per run; 3 at max would be ideal.

If the jinjo jiggy is collected in TTC where the orange jinjo is, then I'm fairly sure that flying out for the honeycomb would save more time.
Well well well. Ive  just found a way to get the Mumbo Mountain Witch Switch Jiggy reliably. *biggest grin for years*. I got the idea the the small area just above the entrance has the same principle as Tickers tower, in that you just need to face toward it and you can get another jump. Then I started practicing getting to that small area and jumping back and forwards on it, not sliding back down. Then it hit me. after getting your balance, jump a significant distance backward then flap back toward the mound, the extra run up gives you enough extra distance with the second jump that the back flip and ground pound gets you to the jiggy easily.

Oh boy, I like speedrunning again!