Banjo-Kazooie 100% (PAL)

2008-08-04 10:15:50 am

where my route takes a different path to you is: after seeing bottles, I run down to the edge of sand slopes and collect the notes heading towards the first dude that eats the eggs, same as you, but then i go left up the railing and to the left hand side of the pyramid getting those notes, then the honeycomb switch, then the green jiggy and up onto the top of the pyramid, hit the switch and let yourself slide down the pyramid and enter, I think it's the puzzle matching one?

Leaving the pyramid; I run down the other railing and feed the dude his eggs, then drop straight down and theres a flight pad, I use that to get the honeycomb in the tree then you turn and can beak bust gobi's rock, you have a near perfect aim, I got it first shot.

After that, the running shoes and we follow the same path again until near the end. After I hit Gobi near the tree, I get the running shoes and with a nicely positioned jump you can make it to where he gives you the honeycomb. I fly through the ancients at the very start.

While im giving up all my secrets, when leaving (leave the yellow jinjo until the end) get the running shoes and collect the yellow jiggy, it will skip the celebration dance.

where my route takes a different path to you is: after seeing bottles, I run down to the edge of sand slopes and collect the notes heading towards the first dude that eats the eggs, same as you, but then i go left up the railing and to the left hand side of the pyramid getting those notes, then the honeycomb switch, then the green jiggy and up onto the top of the pyramid, hit the switch and let yourself slide down the pyramid and enter, I think it's the puzzle matching one?

Leaving the pyramid; I run down the other railing and feed the dude his eggs, then drop straight down and theres a flight pad, I use that to get the honeycomb in the tree then you turn and can beak bust gobi's rock, you have a near perfect aim, I got it first shot.

After that, the running shoes and we follow the same path again until near the end. After I hit Gobi near the tree, I get the running shoes and with a nicely positioned jump you can make it to where he gives you the honeycomb. I fly through the ancients at the very start.

While im giving up all my secrets, when leaving (leave the yellow jinjo until the end) get the running shoes and collect the yellow jiggy, it will skip the celebration dance.

kowbrainz

2008-08-05 01:47:57 am

Quote from Gibbatizer:

Leaving the pyramid; I run down the other railing and feed the dude his eggs, then drop straight down and theres a flight pad, I use that to get the honeycomb in the tree then you turn and can beak bust gobi's rock, you have a near perfect aim, I got it first shot.

Do you mean beak bomb (B while flying) or beak bust (z while in the air)? I'm assuming beak bomb; I'm not exactly sure what you're implying here. A video may help, lol.
I knew about using the running shoes to get to the third gobi location, but I'd only seen it and hadn't practiced it before the run you saw in the video, so I don't use it.

Thanks, though. I might test out a few of these soon, but it might be a while before I decide which route is the best, especially seeing as GV is so far into the game so it isn't too easy to practice it over and over again.

Qgstkpnjtp

2008-08-05 02:59:50 am

twitch.tv/fiveleafclover

@ Click Clock Wood stuff - I had a good run on it a few days before I stopped speedrunning, got 23:49. I talon trot the whole tree pretty much, including leaf climbing and some of the alcove hops. But yeah, aim for 23 flat.

As for my route - for both Summer and Autumn, I use the leaves to climb the tree, then once I've reached the top, jump down to the beehive for whatever is necessary there, then go via the Autumn switch for Summer and Gnawty in both seasons. For Autumn, stomping Gobi before climbing is only a slight detour since you have to go around the tree anyway (and grabbing the grubs and snarebear notes on the first pass is helpful).

I'll get a decent writeup of my route sometime soon, but it's very very difficult to do everything quickly without falling off. I've pretty much perfected it (but I'm very rusty from a combination of having 90% of my runs ending at Vile and having over 2 months without speedrunning) anyway, but it's mostly just a matter of getting your camera angles right and using your shadow effectively.

@ Click Clock Wood stuff - I had a good run on it a few days before I stopped speedrunning, got 23:49. I talon trot the whole tree pretty much, including leaf climbing and some of the alcove hops. But yeah, aim for 23 flat.

As for my route - for both Summer and Autumn, I use the leaves to climb the tree, then once I've reached the top, jump down to the beehive for whatever is necessary there, then go via the Autumn switch for Summer and Gnawty in both seasons. For Autumn, stomping Gobi before climbing is only a slight detour since you have to go around the tree anyway (and grabbing the grubs and snarebear notes on the first pass is helpful).

I'll get a decent writeup of my route sometime soon, but it's very very difficult to do everything quickly without falling off. I've pretty much perfected it (but I'm very rusty from a combination of having 90% of my runs ending at Vile and having over 2 months without speedrunning) anyway, but it's mostly just a matter of getting your camera angles right and using your shadow effectively.

kowbrainz

Edit history:

kowbrainz: 2008-08-05 08:07:42 am

2008-08-05 06:08:58 am

^ it's good to know. Smiley

Hopefully the Caterpiller route works out fine, and not too many Mumbo Tokens are skipped. I still have to get around to making up a proper list for MTs, but I guess it can wait until we work out these routes. Freezeezy, Gobi, Mad Monster and Click Clock still need some work.

Um, below are some times I'd say would be worth aiming for on each level, correct me if anything is a little too low or anything.

Ideal Times:
SM - 2.10 (colliwobble trick - normal route gets 2.15 at best)
MM - 6.00
TTC - 9.50 (I'll make a write-up for this soon or a video to see if anything can be improved further)
CC - 10.30
BGS - 15.00
FP - 15.20 (this is a guess... we'll have to see once the FP route is finalised)
GV - 13.30 (again, just taking Gibb's time and subtracting a few seconds due to new tricks)
MMM - 13.00 (same as above)
RBB - 13.40 (" ")
CCW - 23.00
GL - 33.00
Total Time: 2.35.00

If it's possible we could probably lower these times even further, especially some of the later ones. I'd love to see a run done in sub-2.35 time; imagine that, 20 minutes faster... hehe. Would never have imagined anything like it a couple of months ago.

^ it's good to know. :)
Hopefully the Caterpiller route works out fine, and not too many Mumbo Tokens are skipped. I still have to get around to making up a proper list for MTs, but I guess it can wait until we work out these routes. Freezeezy, Gobi, Mad Monster and Click Clock still need some work.

Um, below are some times I'd say would be worth aiming for on each level, correct me if anything is a little too low or anything.

Ideal Times:
SM - 2.10 (colliwobble trick - normal route gets 2.15 at best)
MM - 6.00
TTC - 9.50 (I'll make a write-up for this soon or a video to see if anything can be improved further)
CC - 10.30 
BGS - 15.00
FP - 15.20 (this is a guess... we'll have to see once the FP route is finalised)
GV - 13.30 (again, just taking Gibb's time and subtracting a few seconds due to new tricks)
MMM - 13.00 (same as above)
RBB - 13.40 (" ")
CCW - 23.00 
GL - 33.00 
Total Time: 2.35.00

If it's possible we could probably lower these times even further, especially some of the later ones. I'd love to see a run done in sub-2.35 time; imagine that, 20 minutes faster... hehe. Would never have imagined anything like it a couple of months ago.

Gibbatizer

2008-08-05 07:27:39 am

Yeh sorry Kowbrainz you might be right about my Grunty's Lair time. But that doesn't mean we can't still chop it down with small time savers here and there. I have an idea to use the warp couldrans after rusty bucket bay to get back into the centre of the lair. I don't know if it's faster.

I have been working on Click Clock Wood also. Talon trotting seems risk in a 3 hour run. I was planning t climb the leaves in summer but was meaning to ask if anyone knew if it works out quicker in auttum then just running up normally.

Purely for interest sake, you can collect Gnawty's Jiggy in Winter when you get the Honeycomb, unfortunately it doesn't matter cause there's 2 notes you need to get in auttum which arnt there in winter.

Something else ive been thinking about is getting the jiggy right up the very top of the world, either after or before you beak bomb (flying) the window and get the honeycomb. Ive always in the past just gotten it as a Bee, again I don't know which is quicker.

And finally on Click Clock, I noticed when you return to Spring the big tree is still grown, if the jiggy can be gotten in spring, we may be able to do the hive in auttum, on the way up and, if I remember correcly, it in some way works out quicker.

Now, sorry I didn't answer your questions the other day Kowbainz. The Brentilda's i speak to usually depend on how my health is looking, I almost always speak to the one before Gobi's Valley, and the others I consider are; after the first note door, after clanker's cavern, behind the bubblegloop swamp witch switch statue of Grunty, and near click clock wood after hitting the button.

As for my route for Furnace Fun, I think it's the same as Marsh's, I get 2 joker cards and head left at the main intersection.

Today i got 9.48 on Treasure Trove Cove, however that was skipping the Mumbo Token in the lighthouse doorway, and I also had to lnd before getting the jiggy on the top of the lighthouse. I don't know what other route's there are for Treasure Trove, if you could post a video at some stage that would be good.

Peace

Yeh sorry Kowbrainz you might be right about my Grunty's Lair time. But that doesn't mean we can't still chop it down with small time savers here and there. I have an idea to use the warp couldrans after rusty bucket bay to get back into the centre of the lair. I don't know if it's faster.

I have been working on Click Clock Wood also. Talon trotting seems risk in a 3 hour run. I was planning t climb the leaves in summer but was meaning to ask if anyone knew if it works out quicker in auttum then just running up normally.

Purely for interest sake, you can collect Gnawty's Jiggy in Winter when you get the Honeycomb, unfortunately it doesn't matter cause there's 2 notes you need to get in auttum which arnt there in winter.

Something else ive been thinking about is getting the jiggy right up the very top of the world, either after or before you beak bomb (flying) the window and get the honeycomb. Ive always in the past just gotten it as a Bee, again I don't know which is quicker.

And finally on Click Clock, I noticed when you return to Spring the big tree is still grown, if the jiggy can be gotten in spring, we may be able to do the hive in auttum, on the way up and, if I remember correcly, it in some way works out quicker.

Now, sorry I didn't answer your questions the other day Kowbainz. The Brentilda's i speak to usually depend on how my health is looking, I almost always speak to the one before Gobi's Valley, and the others I consider are; after the first note door, after clanker's cavern, behind the bubblegloop swamp witch switch statue of Grunty, and near click clock wood after hitting the button.

As for my route for Furnace Fun, I think it's the same as Marsh's, I get 2 joker cards and head left at the main intersection.

Today i got 9.48 on Treasure Trove Cove, however that was skipping the Mumbo Token in the lighthouse doorway, and I also had to lnd before getting the jiggy on the top of the lighthouse. I don't know what other route's there are for Treasure Trove, if you could post a video at some stage that would be good.

Peace

kowbrainz

Edit history:

kowbrainz: 2008-08-05 08:09:55 am

2008-08-05 08:04:24 am

Ah, great.

I think I remember doing a run of Click Clock back in May and missing the flower's jiggy in autumn, then trying to get it in Spring with the bee but finding it wasn't there... so yeah, that wouldn't work. Also the green cauldrons are fairly pointless IMO; you'd be going out of your way to activate both and it only means half a room less to swim through in the end, so it doesn't matter. I've also wondered about the high up jiggy in click clock... not sure what would be more convenient, though. In spring it's located right above the area exit, so after you fly through it with the bee you can drop right down (I think this is faster than flying down) and exit to the lobby. I also realise talon trotting seems risky, but as long as you're able to see your shadow and there isn't too many hazards around (like the dragonfly in autumn near the tree house, it's probably a good idea to take him out first) then it's usually okay, to be honest.

9.48 sounds great. I should really be getting much better times with my current route but for whatever reason I can't do anything consistantly. Sad

I'll post a video later just to show a basic route, though. It includes three flying segments; two of which are quite lengthy and tricky to pull off right each time:

1st Flying segment: from Blubber's ship (after climbing mast for green jinjo) fly to lockup and inside for jiggy (DON'T LAND), fly out, up to top of mountain landform, pick up yellow jinjo in flight and continue up to the lighthouse jiggy and collect in flight.

2nd Flying segment: from the second red X, fly down to the jiggy alcove, then pick up in flight and fly around side of wall until honeycomb, then drop into water and collect. This one's the easiest.

3rd Flying segment: from the second last red X (near Bottles, not including the one on the island you hit to uncover the chest) fly past bottles' molehill. Use a single feather just before the shock spring pad to pick up a mumbo token, then soon afterwards hold R and up to take a steep nose dive to pick up all three notes above one of the shock spring pillars - this is quite tricky.
After that, fly up to the alcove and get the jiggy in flight. If possible, fly down and get the pink jinjo without landing (this jinjo is the last i collect in my route) then fly out to the honeycomb on a crate out in the water. Collect the honeycomb, fly back to the land and jiggy jig-cancel the jinjo jiggy, then fly up or shock spring up to the red x pillar with the notes and snippet crab on it.

Hope that made sense. I'll post a video route later if need be, but I don't practice this level enough at the moment so it does take a while to get everything perfect. I'm a bit lenient on the final flying segment if I can pull off the lockup trick.

Ah, great.

I think I remember doing a run of Click Clock back in May and missing the flower's jiggy in autumn, then trying to get it in Spring with the bee but finding it wasn't there... so yeah, that wouldn't work. Also the green cauldrons are fairly pointless IMO; you'd be going out of your way to activate both and it only means half a room less to swim through in the end, so it doesn't matter. I've also wondered about the high up jiggy in click clock... not sure what would be more convenient, though. In spring it's located right above the area exit, so after you fly through it with the bee you can drop right down (I think this is faster than flying down) and exit to the lobby. I also realise talon trotting seems risky, but as long as you're able to see your shadow and there isn't too many hazards around (like the dragonfly in autumn near the tree house, it's probably a good idea to take him out first) then it's usually okay, to be honest.

9.48 sounds great. I should really be getting much better times with my current route but for whatever reason I can't do anything consistantly. :(

I'll post a video later just to show a basic route, though. It includes three flying segments; two of which are quite lengthy and tricky to pull off right each time:

1st Flying segment: from Blubber's ship (after climbing mast for green jinjo) fly to lockup and inside for jiggy (DON'T LAND), fly out, up to top of mountain landform, pick up yellow jinjo in flight and continue up to the lighthouse jiggy and collect in flight.

2nd Flying segment: from the second red X, fly down to the jiggy alcove, then pick up in flight and fly around side of wall until honeycomb, then drop into water and collect. This one's the easiest.

3rd Flying segment: from the second last red X (near Bottles, not including the one on the island you hit to uncover the chest) fly past bottles' molehill. Use a single feather just before the shock spring pad to pick up a mumbo token, then soon afterwards hold R and up to take a steep nose dive to pick up all three notes above one of the shock spring pillars - this is quite tricky.
After that, fly up to the alcove and get the jiggy in flight. If possible, fly down and get the pink jinjo without landing (this jinjo is the last i collect in my route) then fly out to the honeycomb on a crate out in the water. Collect the honeycomb, fly back to the land and jiggy jig-cancel the jinjo jiggy, then fly up or shock spring up to the red x pillar with the notes and snippet crab on it.

Hope that made sense. I'll post a video route later if need be, but I don't practice this level enough at the moment so it does take a while to get everything perfect. I'm a bit lenient on the final flying segment if I can pull off the lockup trick.

Gibbatizer

2008-08-05 09:48:12 am

yeh it makes sense, at least most of it. But it sounds pretty hard, and ive never been great at picking up items while flying. I probably wouldn't use it personally. considering our times end up similar.

In my route I fly to the top of the lighthouse near the end, I launch from the top of the Ship and face forward, then you can sharply turn around and grab the green jinjo quite easily, then fly up and collect the yellow one also, then straight to the top.

Also ive found a cool trick, which i'm not sure saves time but is fun, it may be hard to explain, where all the jump pads are on top of pillars, if your on the ground you can jump up the wall, to get onto the lowest platform below the platform with the jiggy, I usually pull it off without hastle. then later on collect the notes and jinjo.

kowbrainz

Edit history:

kowbrainz: 2008-08-06 05:14:00 am

2008-08-06 04:06:03 am

Grabbing stuff while flying just takes practice. Only thing that can screw you up a lot is the lockup jiggy, but you can go back to blubber's ship and fly up again if you miss that. It is hard at first, but since TTC is so early into the game I'd be more willing to try out stuff like this to save time than if it were as late as Gobi's Valley.

In either case, I'll try and record it this Friday and upload a vid for you to see; then we can combine routes if need be.

As for your trick; I'll let you watch my route first; mainly because the last flying segment skips a whole lot of time if you can pull it off, and it isn't that hard in comparison to some of the other things I've done. I'd prefer to fly around to pick up the stuff around there, personally, since using shock spring pads and collecting jiggies normally wastes a few seconds. :/

Edit: By the way, thought I might just link you to some of the TAS's work so far in case you hadn't seen it. A lot of the tricks and routes that Pyro and I use come from it; some are easy to convert onto the console, but others won't work well at all unless you're TASing the game. It's still a work in progress, though; Sami hasn't done Freezeezy, Rusty Bucket Bay or Click Clock Wood just yet. These vids don't have any sound, though; sorry about that.

- Spiral Mountain + Mumbo's Mountain
- Treasure Trove Cove
- Clanker's Cavern
- Bubblegloop Swamp
- Gobi's Valley

I'd like to be able to do the MM route that Sami uses; I can already pull off Ticker's Tower with Banjo pretty consistantly, it's just the witch switch jiggy outside the world that is hard to get.

Grabbing stuff while flying just takes practice. Only thing that can screw you up a lot is the lockup jiggy, but you can go back to blubber's ship and fly up again if you miss that. It is hard at first, but since TTC is so early into the game I'd be more willing to try out stuff like this to save time than if it were as late as Gobi's Valley.

In either case, I'll try and record it this Friday and upload a vid for you to see; then we can combine routes if need be.

As for your trick; I'll let you watch my route first; mainly because the last flying segment skips a whole lot of time if you can pull it off, and it isn't that hard in comparison to some of the other things I've done. I'd prefer to fly around to pick up the stuff around there, personally, since using shock spring pads and collecting jiggies normally wastes a few seconds. :/

Edit: By the way, thought I might just link you to some of the TAS's work so far in case you hadn't seen it. A lot of the tricks and routes that Pyro and I use come from it; some are easy to convert onto the console, but others won't work well at all unless you're TASing the game. It's still a work in progress, though; Sami hasn't done Freezeezy, Rusty Bucket Bay or Click Clock Wood just yet. These vids don't have any sound, though; sorry about that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHDdp5__kuc - Spiral Mountain + Mumbo's Mountain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eyz-tecsNA - Treasure Trove Cove
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=151CSe2U5K0 - Clanker's Cavern
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZiXfweOSfY - Bubblegloop Swamp 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loXiptwWeqo - Gobi's Valley

I'd like to be able to do the MM route that Sami uses; I can already pull off Ticker's Tower with Banjo pretty consistantly, it's just the witch switch jiggy outside the world that is hard to get.

Gibbatizer

2008-08-06 11:11:19 am

Mad! I had seen a bit of the Clanker's Cavern TAS before, they're all excelent. Click Clock Wood should be amazing when it's done.

No other comments for today. However I was wondering; every now and then in practice runs if I am on 1 or 2 bars health I might quickely kill myself to refill my life (6 seconds for life insurance seems a fair trade), for example in the lava before Mad Monster. I should hope i would never need to in a real run, but if so, it doesn't change the type of run to death abuse does it?

soteos

2008-08-06 01:27:39 pm

Don't concern yourself with whether it's death abuse, it's an antiquated concept.

Picking up all that stuff while flying sounds cool. I look forward to seeing it.

kowbrainz

2008-08-07 02:09:16 am

One side of me wants to try to do this run without deaths, the other feels that they should be abused now; even if they only shave off a couple of minutes. It'd be cool to see how much time we can chop off using the same guidelines Marsh used for his run, I think. Plus incorporating deaths would mean reworking several of the level routes. :/
But at the same time, trying to break that 2.30 barrier is oh-so tempting... no matter what was used to achieve it.

Oh, another thing: just wondering about the note doors just before the battle with Gruntilda. Would opening these doors be required for an 100% run? Same with filling in the final honeycomb jigsaw puzzle. I think quite a lot of time could be saved if one were to skip the red feather, gold feather and honeycomb doors and just top up eggs. Gold feathers aren't required due to the beak bust invulnerability glitch, and red feathers could be spared beforehand as well. Honeycombs are only needed in the last segment of the battle, and provided you get through furnace fun alright won't be too much of a hassle IMO.

If it's okay to skip them, I might try another run soon and see how I go with only the egg top-up.

One side of me wants to try to do this run without deaths, the other feels that they should be abused now; even if they only shave off a couple of minutes. It'd be cool to see how much time we can chop off using the same guidelines Marsh used for his run, I think. Plus incorporating deaths would mean reworking several of the level routes. :/
But at the same time, trying to break that 2.30 barrier is oh-so tempting... no matter what was used to achieve it.

Oh, another thing: just wondering about the note doors just before the battle with Gruntilda. Would opening these doors be required for an 100% run? Same with filling in the final honeycomb jigsaw puzzle. I think quite a lot of time could be saved if one were to skip the red feather, gold feather and honeycomb doors and just top up eggs. Gold feathers aren't required due to the beak bust invulnerability glitch, and red feathers could be spared beforehand as well. Honeycombs are only needed in the last segment of the battle, and provided you get through furnace fun alright won't be too much of a hassle IMO.

If it's okay to skip them, I might try another run soon and see how I go with only the egg top-up.

Essentia

2008-08-07 09:40:41 am

Everything's better with Magitek

No, you shouldn't have to open those doors at the end or fill in the honeycomb jigsaw. SDA rules for 100% say that you have to collect everything, but you don't necessarily have to put them to their intended use. As long as you have collected every item that shows up in the pause menu, that should be sufficient for 100%.

Gibbatizer

2008-08-07 10:12:26 am

Good question, I was wondering that aswell.

Qgstkpnjtp

2008-08-07 06:58:58 pm

twitch.tv/fiveleafclover

I would be opening the note doors anyway. Trying to beat Grunty with 20 eggs, 10 feathers and 3 gold feathers is ridiculous. Health, not so much; perhaps skip that. I'm not sure. You need like 50 eggs to beat Grunty, and if you're doing so without the red health bar you'll want to be blocking those homing spells, so you'll need the gold feathers (and after CCW, you won't have too many left after the snarebears and whatever else unless you go out of your way to grab gold feathers from the dead snarebears; in which case, you lose more time than you would by getting the gold feathers anyway).

Also, the way I see it the only problems with death abuse runs is when they're only slightly faster than the original run. This run however, assuming it goes well, should be sub-2:40 anyway, so it's really not a problem.

When the XBLA version of BK comes out, I'll probably grab myself an Xbox 360 and speed run that. If it has a decent save system (allowing for segments), I will DEFINITELY do so. I think Xbox 360s are down to about $400-ish with a hard drive.

Click Clock Wood - It's always faster to run up the leaves in Summer and Autumn (you can't do it in Spring, there's no shock jump pad) then jump down to the beehive when you've finished with Eyrie. I'd suggest collecting as much as possible in Winter when you can fly around.

I've also been thinking a bit about the route for Winter. We assume it's faster to just fly everywhere, but is this actually the case? If you screw up while flying (likely) you'll lose a lot of time, but other than the WS and Nabnut's storehouse, you don't really need it at all. Also, it means that you can simply run up the wooden ramp rather than finding the fly pad and whatever.

It's worth looking into. Personally I think it might actually be faster to ignore the flight pads except for when you actually need to use them, it removes a lot of the errors from the equation at any rate.

I would be opening the note doors anyway. Trying to beat Grunty with 20 eggs, 10 feathers and 3 gold feathers is ridiculous. Health, not so much; perhaps skip that. I'm not sure. You need like 50 eggs to beat Grunty, and if you're doing so without the red health bar you'll want to be blocking those homing spells, so you'll need the gold feathers (and after CCW, you won't have too many left after the snarebears and whatever else unless you go out of your way to grab gold feathers from the dead snarebears; in which case, you lose more time than you would by getting the gold feathers anyway).

Also, the way I see it the only problems with death abuse runs is when they're only slightly faster than the original run. This run however, assuming it goes well, should be sub-2:40 anyway, so it's really not a problem.

When the XBLA version of BK comes out, I'll probably grab myself an Xbox 360 and speed run that. If it has a decent save system (allowing for segments), I will DEFINITELY do so. I think Xbox 360s are down to about $400-ish with a hard drive.

Click Clock Wood - It's always faster to run up the leaves in Summer and Autumn (you can't do it in Spring, there's no shock jump pad) then jump down to the beehive when you've finished with Eyrie. I'd suggest collecting as much as possible in Winter when you can fly around.

I've also been thinking a bit about the route for Winter. We assume it's faster to just fly everywhere, but is this actually the case? If you screw up while flying (likely) you'll lose a lot of time, but other than the WS and Nabnut's storehouse, you don't really need it at all. Also, it means that you can simply run up the wooden ramp rather than finding the fly pad and whatever.

It's worth looking into. Personally I think it might actually be faster to ignore the flight pads except for when you actually need to use them, it removes a lot of the errors from the equation at any rate.

Gibbatizer

2008-08-07 10:03:58 pm

I find Click Clock wood is a hard level to judge routes, and time differences.

In winter I run straight to the flight pad outside Mumbo's, launch and get the blue jinjo, then land on the tree and get the notes (may be worth picking them up as your flying) then get eerie and again collect the Jiggy while flying (must be done), beak bomb to the top door, collect the jiggy, then talon trot down the ramp getting the notes.

Then I get a bit hazy what to do, the notes next to the snowman are out of the way but you get the idea. Then beak bomb to the house and collect the notes, run down and jump on the witch switch, sprint to Gnawty's hole, get honeycomb, then leave.

I don't know if this is the usual way or not, but it seems to work, provided your having a good day flying.

Freaky_Mutant_Man

2008-08-07 10:46:59 pm

This sentence is funny. Admit it, you laughed.

I have an idea for Mr. Vile if you're having trouble beating him consistently during a speedrun even though you can beat him everytime playing casually: Drop your speedrun mindset when you're doing Vile's game. Since it's timed, there's no benefit to rushing it, and in fact will be the doom of your run most of the time. So just relax, and play it like you normally would. It's definitely not a hard minigame by any means, I beat it first time playing by a large margin, but it's definitely the kind of thing you don't want to rush if you want any consistency on it at all.

kowbrainz

2008-08-08 01:39:40 am

Pyro: I've had a few runs where I'll have 20 red feathers + after Click Clock, sometimes 30, which is alright really. There's four being used for beak bombs, and a couple extra just to gain height, so there's no real need to worry IMO.

Gold feathers, like I said before - you can avoid Grunty's spell using the beak bust invulnerability trick. Beak bust into the ground just before the spell hits so that it hits during the 'recoil' phase. Then you can save a gold feather and life, too.

As for Mr Vile: If you start speedrunning you'll realise that his game is quite random, and that sometimes you'll end up winning by insane margins, whilst other times you'll be pipped to the finish. I think the best way is to stay behind (albeit closely) so that he doesn't speed up too much, as he'll go faster when you're ahead. Then start eating as much as possible in the last 20 seconds.

@Gibb: Flying for the notes above mumbo takes more time than it's worth. It's better to land up on the branch and talon trot jump for all of them (not in the overly cautious way Marsh does) then jump back down and use the fly pad again.

Pyro: I've had a few runs where I'll have 20 red feathers + after Click Clock, sometimes 30, which is alright really. There's four being used for beak bombs, and a couple extra just to gain height, so there's no real need to worry IMO.

Gold feathers, like I said before - you can avoid Grunty's spell using the beak bust invulnerability trick. Beak bust into the ground just before the spell hits so that it hits during the 'recoil' phase. Then you can save a gold feather and life, too.

As for Mr Vile: If you start speedrunning you'll realise that his game is quite random, and that sometimes you'll end up winning by insane margins, whilst other times you'll be pipped to the finish. I think the best way is to stay behind (albeit closely) so that he doesn't speed up too much, as he'll go faster when you're ahead. Then start eating as much as possible in the last 20 seconds.

@Gibb: Flying for the notes above mumbo takes more time than it's worth. It's better to land up on the branch and talon trot jump for all of them (not in the overly cautious way Marsh does) then jump back down and use the fly pad again.

kowbrainz

2008-08-10 06:00:04 am

Hrmph. I really want to see your TTC route (or at least hear what happens in it) soon, Gibb; I was trying to record mine on Friday but I messed up on each of the attempts. I'd really like to combine some routes together if possible; I think 9.30 might be achievable (or even less) if some work is done.

The main points I mess up at are the lockup jiggy while flying and the notes above one of the shock spring pillars. The latter I used to get most of the time, so I think it may be a case of me needing a little more practice; the lockup jiggy doesn't matter too much I suppose; I can always jump down to Blubber's ship again from it if I don't get it, which doesn't waste too much time really.

My best run on Friday got 10.16 if I recall correctly; and it involved about 30 seconds or so of flying around the notes on the shock spring pillar, haha. Would've been a laugh to watch.

The other thing that I think would be good to do next would be finalising a route for Gobi's Valley. The TAS has already been done, and we already have something to aim for after your previous times of 13.50 or whatever, so I think it's just a case of knowing which tricks to employ and creating the route around those.
- this is the honeycomb trick I was referring to before; not sure if it would be worth using this or your method with the flight pad. Several honeycombs are needed for collecting the notes in the sand near Grabba right after this part (in my route anyway) so it'd depend on how much health you have at the time.
We also need to work out which is the best method of breaking gobi's rock, so it would depend on that too. Still not exactly sure what you meant when you said to beak bust it while flying... :/

Hrmph. I really want to see your TTC route (or at least hear what happens in it) soon, Gibb; I was trying to record mine on Friday but I messed up on each of the attempts. I'd really like to combine some routes together if possible; I think 9.30 might be achievable (or even less) if some work is done.

The main points I mess up at are the lockup jiggy while flying and the notes above one of the shock spring pillars. The latter I used to get most of the time, so I think it may be a case of me needing a little more practice; the lockup jiggy doesn't matter [i]too [/i] much I suppose; I can always jump down to Blubber's ship again from it if I don't get it, which doesn't waste too much time really.

My best run on Friday got 10.16 if I recall correctly; and it involved about 30 seconds or so of flying around the notes on the shock spring pillar, haha. Would've been a laugh to watch.

The other thing that I think would be good to do next would be finalising a route for Gobi's Valley. The TAS has already been done, and we already have something to aim for after your previous times of 13.50 or whatever, so I think it's just a case of knowing which tricks to employ and creating the route around those.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-mD0ScFSSY - this is the honeycomb trick I was referring to before; not sure if it would be worth using this or your method with the flight pad. Several honeycombs are needed for collecting the notes in the sand near Grabba right after this  part (in my route anyway) so it'd depend on how much health you have at the time.
We also need to work out which is the best method of breaking gobi's rock, so it would depend on that too. Still not exactly sure what you meant when you said to beak bust it while flying... :/

Gibbatizer

2008-08-10 08:45:30 am

Quote:

Still not exactly sure what you meant when you said to beak bust it while flying... :/

I get the honeycomb in the Green Cactus, by launching from a flight pad, below the first dude who you have to feed eggs. As soon as ive flown through and got it, I turn toward Gobi, aim at his rock and do a flying beak attack (sorry I can't even remember what half of the moves are called ive been skipping text for so long). So flying, press B. It is pretty easy to hit, and it will mean while he does his little animation and breaks free, banjo is just hovering in the air in front of him, and he collects the jiggy as Gobi is running off, not wasting any time.

kowbrainz

2008-08-11 03:33:43 am

Ah, alright; that's the beak bomb then, lol. I'll try that out next time I play through, although I'm not sure when that'll be; haven't had too much time lately. But I'll try and get a route finalised for Gobi's Valley soonish... maybe Mad Monster Mansion and Freezeezy Peak later. Still haven't heard your Mad Monster route, though.

Once routes for those levels (and Treasure Trove Cove.... ugh, forgot about that) are done, I'll start practicing the run - Click Clock Wood shouldn't be too hard to plan really. I still need to find out how I'll be recording, though - hopefully sooner rather than later.

Gibbatizer

2008-08-12 10:14:44 am

Mad Monster Mansion Route
Collect the notes at the start run right toward the green slush, run around the edges getting the notes (leave 1), jump up and get the blue jinjo, jump down and use the shock wave jump to launch over the gate, turn around rat a tat the gate, run behind the house and jump on roof and get notes, go inside complete task.

Get the mumbo token, the 3 notes, bust the gate, go left of the church and simultaneously kill the grave stones and fill the vases with eggs (what is the best way to do this? I usually Ratatat them, which takes 2 hits, and i always find I have to kill them or ill get attacked!?). Leave the jiggy after the last flower pot and jump on the roof, collect the notes, run around the roof and go on top. I usually talon trot jump enough to get 3 of the notes but, not get up onto the balcony, after getting the jiggy on top, i collect the last note and jump into the maze, in thwe collumn with the 2 notes, then run arou nd and get the notes in the maze.

Leave at the exit toward the start of the level, climb the pole, bust the window then fall down and bust into the cellar. Do the cellar whichever way, then leave and climb the nearest pole, run along the roof until you get the note, bust open the next window, jump up on the green pad. Jump across to the right and get the note then back and enter the window, go the other way when leaving, get the note, then the green jinjo? which gives you the jiggy. Get the note on the left and enter the other window. (in the room) Talon trot around anti clockwise running under wall paintings. Leaving get the final note then enter the house from the very top.

Leaving Nappa's house, run to the church switch, hit it and run to the church. Now, I hate these chairs! I usually jump up one closest to the piano, get its note then jump onto the other chair from there. I do that for both of them. The only other thing I had am idea to try, is to land on them after getting the honeycomb, but I think its too far back. The rest here is straight forward. Beocme the pumpkin, when leaving get the jiggy from the flower pots, run through the gap and up the ramp to get onto the house, enter the windows then fall down the gutter.

Finally get the note you missed on the green pond, then walk upto the well, you should be able to land in the bucket and get the jiggy as your going down, this is good! but doesnt always work, everyone probably knows this. Then get the notes and the notes outside of the well and cya later.

I did consistent but not good run of it recently and got 14.16

On a seperate topic, when I started coming back on here I wasn't planning on doing a run but ive been playing better then expected and would be interested in recording something of worth. Kowbrainz you mentioned your tempted to use death abuse to wipe off extra time. It is a very appealing proposition. Perhaps you could record a detah abuse run and ill do a standard ss. Theyll probably be generally the same but mainly just a technicality refference. Can anyone shead some idea's on the topic?

[u]Mad Monster Mansion Route[/u]
Collect the notes at the start run right toward the green slush, run around the edges getting the notes (leave 1), jump up and get the blue jinjo, jump down and use the shock wave jump to launch over the gate, turn around rat a tat the gate, run behind the house and jump on roof and get notes, go inside complete task.

Get the mumbo token, the 3 notes, bust the gate, go left of the church and simultaneously kill the grave stones and fill the vases with eggs (what is the best way to do this? I usually Ratatat them, which takes 2 hits, and i always find I have to kill them or ill get attacked!?). Leave the jiggy after the last flower pot and jump on the roof, collect the notes, run around the roof and go on top. I usually talon trot jump enough to get 3 of the notes but, not get up onto the balcony, after getting the jiggy on top, i collect the last note and jump into the maze, in thwe collumn with the 2 notes, then run arou nd and get the notes in the maze.

Leave at the exit toward the start of the level, climb the pole, bust the window then fall down and bust into the cellar. Do the cellar whichever way, then leave and climb the nearest pole, run along the roof until you get the note, bust open the next window, jump up on the green pad. Jump across to the right and get the note then back and enter the window, go the other way when leaving, get the note, then the green jinjo? which gives you the jiggy. Get the note on the left and enter the other window. (in the room) Talon trot around anti clockwise running under wall paintings. Leaving get the final note then enter the house from the very top.

Leaving Nappa's house, run to the church switch, hit it and run to the church. Now, I hate these chairs! I usually jump up one closest to the piano, get its note then jump onto the other chair from there. I do that for both of them. The only other thing I had am idea to try, is to land on them after getting the honeycomb, but I think its too far back. The rest here is straight forward. Beocme the pumpkin, when leaving get the jiggy from the flower pots, run through the gap and up the ramp to get onto the house, enter the windows then fall down the gutter.

Finally get the note you missed on the green pond, then walk upto the well, you should be able to land in the bucket and get the jiggy as your going down, this is good! but doesnt always work, everyone probably knows this. Then get the notes and the notes outside of the well and cya later.

I did consistent but not good run of it recently and got 14.16

On a seperate topic, when I started coming back on here I wasn't planning on doing a run but ive been playing better then expected and would be interested in recording something of worth. Kowbrainz you mentioned your tempted to use death abuse to wipe off extra time. It is a very appealing proposition. Perhaps you could record a detah abuse run and ill do a standard ss. Theyll probably be generally the same but mainly just a technicality refference. Can anyone shead some idea's on the topic?

kowbrainz

2008-08-13 04:51:30 am

Thanks a lot for the MMM route. I may try my route again and see what I can do before I have a shot at yours with a few minor changes here and there.
I usually use the rat a tat rap for the grave stones, but you might be able to stun them with an egg while feeding the pots...

As for separate runs... hmm. I'd rather not try to do a separate run with death abuse; both runs would be extremely similar with only a few minutes difference anyway, so it's not really worth it in my eyes. I wasn't really tempted to use death abuse per se; just wondering whether or not it should be incorporated - I haven't had any plans to change any of my level routes for death warps before.

I'd really like to be able to run this, but if you're finding that you have the time to try again now and the motive, then I wouldn't object to that; even if I did decide to run through myself I'd probably be a little more lenient on my times than you are, and might end up getting beaten later down the track.

I guess you can do a practice run if you like with some adapted routes; I might be trying one again soon as well. But if you're getting better times more consistantly, then you should probably take the run instead. Undecided

Thanks a lot for the MMM route. I may try my route again and see what I can do before I have a shot at yours with a few minor changes here and there.
I usually use the rat a tat rap for the grave stones, but you might be able to stun them with an egg while feeding the pots...

As for separate runs... hmm. I'd rather not try to do a separate run with death abuse; both runs would be extremely similar with only a few minutes difference anyway, so it's not really worth it in my eyes. I wasn't really tempted to use death abuse per se; just wondering whether or not it should be incorporated - I haven't had any plans to change any of my level routes for death warps before.

I'd really like to be able to run this, but if you're finding that you have the time to try again now and the motive, then I wouldn't object to that; even if I did decide to run through myself I'd probably be a little more lenient on my times than you are, and might end up getting beaten later down the track.

I guess you can do a practice run if you like with some adapted routes; I might be trying one again soon as well. But if you're getting better times more consistantly, then you should probably take the run instead.  :-\

Gibbatizer

2008-08-13 09:24:58 am

Quote:

But if you're getting better times more consistantly, then you should probably take the run instead.

Im not sure about that. I have pulled off good game times and world times before, but i'm not that consistent. It's just a matter of attempting the full run however many times until you hit a time we're happy with. Either way, im happy to just keep practising at the moment, there's always new tricks bobbing up, and there are parts of the run which I just can't seem to get better at, such as collecting notes on the trees in treasure trove, or running up the stair railings. :@

Over

kowbrainz

2008-08-13 09:34:39 am

Quote from Gibbatizer:

such as collecting notes on the trees in treasure trove, or running up the stair railings. :@

I can so relate to this, lol... I was wondering if I was the only one slowed down by those trees. Tongue

Either way, have a practice run and see how you go I guess; nothing's stopping you. I like to have a practice run every now and then after I've adapted my routes majorly, but I'll probably start doing them more and more frequently as the routes become finalised later on. But for me there's nothing better than setting a best time which you thought only had a few mistakes in it, then going back and planning things for a while and working on individual level routes before going back and smashing a personal best time by ten minutes... hehe. And even then, there was still room for improvement.

Looking back over my posts, my last run was about 3 weeks ago now; the one before that a month further back. So I'll try again this week with the improvements I've made to the routes, and hopefully a much better run for Freezeezy and Click Clock Wood. I reckon 2.52's a good aim for now... for me at least.

[quote="Gibbatizer"]
 such as collecting notes on the trees in treasure trove, or running up the stair railings. :@[/quote]

I can so relate to this, lol... I was wondering if I was the only one slowed down by those trees. :P

Either way, have a practice run and see how you go I guess; nothing's stopping you. I like to have a practice run every now and then after I've adapted my routes majorly, but I'll probably start doing them more and more frequently as the routes become finalised later on. But for me there's nothing better than setting a best time which you thought only had a few mistakes in it, then going back and planning things for a while and working on individual level routes before going back and smashing a personal best time by ten minutes... hehe. And even then, there was still room for improvement.

Looking back over my posts, my last run was about 3 weeks ago now; the one before that a month further back. So I'll try again this week with the improvements I've made to the routes, and hopefully a much better run for Freezeezy and Click Clock Wood. I reckon 2.52's a good aim for now... for me at least.

Gibbatizer

2008-08-13 11:11:47 am

The run I recorded was 2.48.22 I think. I did another which was 2.46.40 or so but I missed a honeycomb somewhere.

Anyway, as my routes seem ok atm my usual way of playing is, run as fast as you can, if you make some disgraceful mistakes in a world I might stop and look around or try a a few tricks. But i'm trying to gather accurate times to aim for (as you'll have noticed I posted a few times I thought were decent).

Onto business. What is yours or Sami's route for Summer in Click Clock Wood. Also im doubtful that climbing the leaves in Auttum is faster than running up normally considering the risk factor. At least in summer the leaves are a healthy size.

But back onto summer. Im trying to find a way that I can finish by hitting the auttum switch, then hitting gnawty's rock then leaving. But the problem is im 1 grub short when I get to Eerie.

So fare I have:

CCW Summer Route
- Get yellow jinjo
- Get grub and jump up leaves
- Kill bird
- Go to mumbo's and get the grub (outside)
- Run through the vines and get the mumbo token near the bird
- Hit Gobi
- Get Grub Near the Venus Fly Trap
- Hit Auttum Button (get grub)
- Hit Gnawty's Rock
- Get back onto first layer (get grub) and run to where the next set of leaves are
- Climb the leaves and get jiggy
- Climb upto the house, get notes, get jiggy if your feeling daring (im not)
- Run to Nabnuts house and get the notes on the wood
- Jump down to next level of wood and get grub
- Go to eerie and feed him
- Fall down wherever suits, heading toward bee-hive
- Bee hive
- Leave as quick as you can (probably get the yellow jinjo on the way out apposed to the start

It seems so disjointed, but I need another Grub otherwise it's the best I can think up atm.

The other seasons im comfortable with, maybe some small experimenting to be done.

The run I recorded was 2.48.22 I think. I did another which was 2.46.40 or so but I missed a honeycomb somewhere.

Anyway, as my routes seem ok atm my usual way of playing is, run as fast as you can, if you make some disgraceful mistakes in a world I might stop and look around or try a a few tricks. But i'm trying to gather accurate times to aim for (as you'll have noticed I posted a few times I thought were decent).

Onto business. What is yours or Sami's route for Summer in Click Clock Wood. Also im doubtful that climbing the leaves in Auttum is faster than running up normally considering the risk factor. At least in summer the leaves are a healthy size.

But back onto summer. Im trying to find a way that I can finish by hitting the auttum switch, then hitting gnawty's rock then leaving. But the problem is im 1 grub short when I get to Eerie.

So fare I have:

[u]CCW Summer Route[/u]
- Get yellow jinjo
- Get grub and jump up leaves
- Kill bird
- Go to mumbo's and get the grub (outside)
- Run through the vines and get the mumbo token near the bird
- Hit Gobi
- Get Grub Near the Venus Fly Trap
- Hit Auttum Button (get grub)
- Hit Gnawty's Rock
- Get back onto first layer (get grub) and run to where the next set of leaves are
- Climb the leaves and get jiggy
- Climb upto the house, get notes, get jiggy if your feeling daring (im not)
- Run to Nabnuts house and get the notes on the wood 
- Jump down to next level of wood and get grub
- Go to eerie and feed him
- Fall down wherever suits, heading toward bee-hive
- Bee hive
- Leave as quick as you can (probably get the yellow jinjo on the way out apposed to the start

It seems so disjointed, but I need another Grub otherwise it's the best I can think up atm.

The other seasons im comfortable with, maybe some small experimenting to be done.