Whats the hardest game YOU ever played? (Non Rom Hack)

Enhasa

Edit history:

Enhasa: 2009-11-22 10:38:28 pm

2009-11-22 10:28:08 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

lol, I wasn't referring to you in the last post (you didn't say "Mushi Ultra" after all), it just reminded me. Unlucky coincidence for you maybe. Although if you haven't played DDP (which implies only playing Touhou and modern import Cave), I'm not sure if you have much basis for comparison to say which shmups are harder than others.

DOJ is the hard Dodonpachi. The others are less so. That time period was the peak of Cave difficulty. MAME-able stuff and recent stuff are lower.

I guess this just goes to show how you can define this different ways. Top-level professional SC is really tough, but so would top-level professional much of anything. If you play on US East or US West, SC is really easy. SC single-player campaign is easy. I'm just looking at how easy it is to get the clear or 1cc. Sure, top-level scoring in Touhou is tough, but so is top-level scoring in other games. You need to compare apples to apples. Touhou is actually underrated in difficulty on a no-miss basis, I think. They just rain extends down on you though. Put it this way: I don't 1cc arcade games on my 2nd try like I did with the last Touhou game I played. Other shmups I have put over 100 hours into them, and love them, and still don't have the 1cc.

Edit: Ok, I need to read the damn thread title again. It even has YOU in all caps. Ignore everything I said then, lol. Sorry for the inconvenience. :-[ I was kinda wondering why you said "I could name DDP but I've never played it," lol.

lol, I wasn't referring to you in the last post (you didn't say "Mushi Ultra" after all), it just reminded me. Unlucky coincidence for you maybe. Although if you haven't played DDP (which implies only playing Touhou and modern import Cave), I'm not sure if you have much basis for comparison to say which shmups are harder than others.

DOJ is the hard Dodonpachi. The others are less so. That time period was the peak of Cave difficulty. MAME-able stuff and recent stuff are lower.

I guess this just goes to show how you can define this different ways. Top-level professional SC is really tough, but so would top-level professional much of anything. If you play on US East or US West, SC is really easy. SC single-player campaign is easy. I'm just looking at how easy it is to get the clear or 1cc. Sure, top-level scoring in Touhou is tough, but so is top-level scoring in other games. You need to compare apples to apples. Touhou is actually [i]underrated[/i] in difficulty on a no-miss basis, I think. They just rain extends down on you though. Put it this way: I don't 1cc arcade games on my 2nd try like I did with the last Touhou game I played. Other shmups I have put over 100 hours into them, and love them, and still don't have the 1cc.

Edit: Ok, I need to read the damn thread title again. It even has YOU in all caps. Ignore everything I said then, lol. Sorry for the inconvenience. :-[ I was kinda wondering why you said "I could name DDP but I've never played it," lol.

Phoenix3568

2009-11-23 09:00:49 am

Procrastination Nation!

Haha it's cool =]

As for SC I was thinking professional play, as I am like 2-9 in iccup. I don't play all that often.

I agree to your points, DOJ looks INSANE though in one version there was a safe spot in the final boss? I remember seeing a video of it somewhere.

Gunstar is pretty hard, even though people DO speedrun it =]

VorpalEdge

2009-11-23 04:19:40 pm

welcome to the machine

Quote from Phoenix3568:

I agree to your points, DOJ looks INSANE though in one version there was a safe spot in the final boss? I remember seeing a video of it somewhere.

That would be Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu, the relatively-recent (and perhaps easier) sequel to DOJ. That safe spot was removed in a later version of the game.

romscout

2009-11-23 06:04:14 pm

that Metroidvania guy

ddp doj black label is definitely the hardest danmaku shmup i've played so far from a survival standpoint (i should really stop playing it on very hard). people who think danmaku is all about bullet quantities need to play some version of doj (death label and regular doj from what i've seen are harder than black label, though i have only had the chance to play black label) and see that SPEED is really what dictates how manic a game can be. i mean, requiring the player to be stupidly precise is essential obviously, but without the speed that the projectiles have in many spots like in doj, being precise just isnt as intimidating or stressful.

i tried playing again today after a relatively lengthy break from it, and i cant even get to the final stage anymore (on 1 credit). but i swear, i will fucking take you down one day, hibachi!!! Cry

i'll actually admit, doj probably isnt the hardest if we're looking at playing for score. the hardest shmup i've ever played scoring-wise is battle garegga, but i'm sure that's just because i'm with the vast majority of people who don't know what the fuck with the scoring system.

also, mushihimesama futari 360 is apparently coming my way soon (or so play asia indicates), so i guess i'll get to see whether mushi futari ultra is really as hard as people say. :p the first stage certainly looks harder than the first stages in most cave games, but from start to finish im just not sure it's going to be as crazy as i've heard. we'll see.

i'd say there's actually a handful of classic games that are harder than cave's entire library though. but screw those. hardest single player game for me (at least in recent memory) is GOD HAND. like, has anyone beaten this game on hard without using a continue or reloading from a save point? i'd love to see that, just someone sitting there playing and only doing bathroom breaks and stuff, and just raping the game on hard without game overing. i'm not even talking kick me sign run, just a regular run. not happening, right?

ddp doj black label is definitely the hardest danmaku shmup i've played so far from a survival standpoint (i should really stop playing it on very hard). people who think danmaku is all about bullet quantities need to play some version of doj (death label and regular doj from what i've seen are harder than black label, though i have only had the chance to play black label) and see that SPEED is really what dictates how manic a game can be. i mean, requiring the player to be stupidly precise is essential obviously, but without the speed that the projectiles have in many spots like in doj, being precise just isnt as intimidating or stressful.

i tried playing again today after a relatively lengthy break from it, and i cant even get to the final stage anymore (on 1 credit). but i swear, i will fucking take you down one day, hibachi!!!  :'(

i'll actually admit, doj probably isnt the hardest if we're looking at playing for score. the hardest shmup i've ever played scoring-wise is battle garegga, but i'm sure that's just because i'm with the vast majority of people who don't know what the fuck with the scoring system.

also, mushihimesama futari 360 is apparently coming my way soon (or so play asia indicates), so i guess i'll get to see whether mushi futari ultra is really as hard as people say. :p the first stage certainly looks harder than the first stages in most cave games, but from start to finish im just not sure it's going to be as crazy as i've heard. we'll see.

i'd say there's actually a handful of classic games that are harder than cave's entire library though. but screw those. hardest single player game for me (at least in recent memory) is GOD HAND. like, has anyone beaten this game on hard without using a continue or reloading from a save point? i'd love to see that, just someone sitting there playing and only doing bathroom breaks and stuff, and just raping the game on hard without game overing. i'm not even talking kick me sign run, just a regular run. not happening, right?

sunburstbasser

2009-11-23 10:23:50 pm

Silver Hawk!

Battle Garegga is a bit hard to score on, but I'd argue that Dimahoo and Battle Bakraid are far worse. Dimahoo is collectibles and I don't understand it very well; Bakraid has the medals out of Garegga but you get multipliers as well. Keeping those multipliers going involves bombs, suicides, timing, and a lot of other shit that makes it way more of a hassle than it should be. If you can get it up to x64 you'll love it, and you can easily die before actually getting to use it.

Difficulty wise, I'd say Bakraid seems easier than Garegga in many ways despite the stupid scoring system.

sagema

2009-11-24 12:46:12 am

Silver Surfer NES, Wolverine NES, Treasure Master NES, Spider Man and the X-men Arcade's Revenge, Battletoads 2 player no stage skip. It's really hard to pick from my list. All gave me loads of trouble. I guess... Treasure Master because I only managed to beat it once. Back in the day if you won this game, they paid you $10,000? It was such a long time ago. Anyways there were problems when I think they tried to air it being won on MTV? Anyone have the footage? Ikaruga looks like it's the hardest. Never got to play it.

Treasure Master->

SkratMan

2009-11-24 01:03:10 am

[+--oo] In control since '86

I'm glad someone else knows and listed Treasure Master like I did, though I feel sorry for you at the same time that you had to suffer through this game. Wink

This game is incredibly frustrating to me.

Wiki for the contest: here.

I wanted to say the contest was a failure; I had heard that something failed, like one of the codes didn't work or the hotline number to turn in the final verification was down. But after a quick Interblog search, some people claim they won SNESes. :shrug:

DJGrenola

2009-11-24 05:09:18 am

guffaw

Stand aside, I've got some British Isles to represent.

I want to say Micropower's Castle Quest, but everyone on this forum will automatically and quite incorrectly assume I'm talking about a similarly named and likely inferior NES game. So, I'll go with Tim Tyler and Superior Software's Repton 2, which: a) abandoned the levels of the first game and replaced them with one vast interlocking gameworld; b) got rid of the password system, requiring the player to complete this vast gameworld in one attempt; and c) in the original release, contained a bug which made completing the game impossible. Smiley

(The game was so hard anyway that very few people actually noticed this bug, although Superior eventually fixed it for subsequent releases).

ZenicReverie

2009-11-24 11:29:20 am

Waiting hurts my soul...

Quote from DJGrenola:

Stand aside, I've got some British Isles to represent.

I want to say Micropower's Castle Quest, but everyone on this forum will automatically and quite incorrectly assume I'm talking about a similarly named and likely inferior NES game. So, I'll go with Tim Tyler and Superior Software's Repton 2, which: a) abandoned the levels of the first game and replaced them with one vast interlocking gameworld; b) got rid of the password system, requiring the player to complete this vast gameworld in one attempt; and c) in the original release, contained a bug which made completing the game impossible. Smiley

(The game was so hard anyway that very few people actually noticed this bug, although Superior eventually fixed it for subsequent releases).

Reminds me of Boulder Dash. That Castle Quest game looks obscure, like the "how are you supposed to figure those items out" obscure.

[quote="DJGrenola"]
Stand aside, I've got some British Isles to represent.

I want to say Micropower's [url=http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7967989481850456319#]Castle Quest[/url], but everyone on this forum will automatically and quite incorrectly assume I'm talking about a similarly named and likely inferior NES game. So, I'll go with Tim Tyler and Superior Software's [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6erDu3Ox7Qs]Repton 2[/url], which: a) abandoned the levels of the first game and replaced them with one vast interlocking gameworld; b) got rid of the password system, requiring the player to complete this vast gameworld in one attempt; and c) in the original release, contained a bug which made completing the game impossible. :)

(The game was so hard anyway that very few people actually noticed this bug, although Superior eventually fixed it for subsequent releases).
[/quote]
Reminds me of Boulder Dash. That Castle Quest game looks obscure, like the "how are you supposed to figure those items out" obscure.

Elpis_TK31

2009-11-24 12:09:26 pm

PAL 50Hz KILL ME NOW

Quote from ShinerCCC:

I'm going to come across as deep and reply with "In The Groove 2"

even though I've passed every official singles expert stepchart except ReaF now.
doubles...I've got a ways to go ~_~

That's not gaming, it's sporting Tongue

Seriously tho, my condition sucks XD I can't clear the 13s and Bloodrush >.>
I did clear Infernoplex, but meh...I needz to train moar.

sagema

2009-11-24 02:14:28 pm

It's a completely different mindset playing hard games as a kid vs an adult. I won those hard games without the consideration that I didn't have to. My friend and I would compete. I bought Treasure Master used from Funcoland after the MTV contest ended. This was the game that broke our competition. He never won this game. After that we moved into the world of competitive multiplayer, Mario Kart, Killer Instinct, Street Fighter, NBA Jam. Also the good old days of X-band SNES. I think the same people who made Silver Surfer, and Wolverine NES also made Treasure Master?

DJGrenola

Edit history:

DJGrenola: 2009-11-24 04:18:52 pm

2009-11-24 04:07:10 pm

guffaw

Quote from ZenicReverie:

Reminds me of Boulder Dash. That Castle Quest game looks obscure, like the "how are you supposed to figure those items out" obscure.

I think the legend goes that Tim Tyler created Repton after having read a review of Boulder Dash, but had never actually played the game himself. I think it was a slightly different idea, though -- more brainpower and less quick reactions. There are actually Windows remakes of some (all?) of the Repton games at Superior Interactive, with some free trial versions. I much prefer the original engine and graphics, though. Repton 3 was the best of the games by far and is very fondly remembered by many British thirtysomethings (nobody outside the UK has heard of it, of course). The animation was particularly good for a machine with nothing in the way of dedicated sprite hardware (the CPU had to do it all, although sometimes you could get a little help from the 6845 CRTC chip).

Castle Quest was obscure in the way you describe ... there were quite a few BBC Micro games in that obscure "arcade adventure" mould, like Wizadore, Exile, and my own personal favourite, Michael Jakobsen's Citadel. (I'd still love to speedrun Citadel -- I have the original hardware, but I doubt I'd ever get a verifier).

All these games were quite hard, not usually in a bad way (i.e. awkward to control, or unfair), but more in that they required a lot of exploration, thought and planning to solve them.

[quote="ZenicReverie"]
Reminds me of Boulder Dash. That Castle Quest game looks obscure, like the "how are you supposed to figure those items out" obscure.
[/quote]

I think the legend goes that Tim Tyler created Repton after having read a review of Boulder Dash, but had never actually played the game himself. I think it was a slightly different idea, though -- more brainpower and less quick reactions. There are actually Windows remakes of some (all?) of the Repton games at [url=http://superiorinteractive.com/]Superior Interactive[/url], with some free trial versions. I much prefer the original engine and graphics, though. Repton 3 was the best of the games by far and is very fondly remembered by many British thirtysomethings (nobody outside the UK has heard of it, of course). The animation was particularly good for a machine with nothing in the way of dedicated sprite hardware (the CPU had to do it all, although sometimes you could get a little help from the 6845 CRTC chip).

Castle Quest was obscure in the way you describe ... there were quite a few BBC Micro games in that obscure "arcade adventure" mould, like Wizadore, Exile, and my own personal favourite, Michael Jakobsen's [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citadel_(video_game)]Citadel[/url]. (I'd still love to speedrun Citadel -- I have the original hardware, but I doubt I'd ever get a verifier).

All these games were quite hard, not usually in a bad way (i.e. awkward to control, or unfair), but more in that they required a lot of exploration, thought and planning to solve them.

Serial_gamer

2009-12-05 09:12:52 am

Welcome to the Future !

I agree with enhasa :
-Mushihime Futari 1.5 (I've never played god difficulty, but ultra mode is quite impossible)
-Touhou project
-dodonpachi (the first one)

Stupid

2009-12-11 03:34:19 pm

defying gravity

Rybka is the hardest. It is beatable but no human or computer can do it.

JDHyatt

2009-12-11 03:43:37 pm

I'm the guy who complains yet never submits XD

Robotron

lvl27_cubone

2009-12-11 03:50:59 pm

IWBTG is pretty dang hard, but I got really far. It's much easier with a gamepad.

Other than that, the original Metroid, Megaman 1 (which I've beaten), and Ninja Gaiden for Xbox are all really difficult games.

ZenicReverie

2009-12-11 04:36:23 pm

Waiting hurts my soul...

Quote from JDHyatt:

Robotron

It's interesting that you picked a game with no ending (unless you count the kill screen). How come you consider it hard? I mean how do you measure something like that when the point isn't to progress, but to get a score?

Enhasa

2009-12-12 02:11:39 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Robotron is hard (deaths per min?) for beginners, but once you know what you're doing, all the extends make it really easy. You can actually get so many extra guys that the counter rolls over back to 0. A lot of people compete with the "5 man rule" where they artificially limit themselves to 5 deaths.

Quote from DJGrenola:

(nobody outside the UK has heard of it, of course)

I played some Repton game for DOS. I think you underestimate the extent of my loserness.

Anyway I'm just responding to say, we've had people want to submit runs where nobody at SDA had ever played the game, and then people played it so they could verify. So maybe you should go for it.

kingnahum17

2009-12-13 06:03:27 pm

Quit your belly aching Solder!

I would have to say... Nolan Ryan's Baseball... A 4-bit for the SNES. I could not hit the ball a single time!

Elpis_TK31

2009-12-16 12:06:59 pm

PAL 50Hz KILL ME NOW

GodHand, it easily trumps Chaos Legions Hard with it's own hardmode, GOD DAMN I can't even get to the gay midboss couple >.> LVDIE is called that for a reason, like in you will die, millions and millions of tiems >.<

Gamermattc89

2009-12-24 11:17:27 pm

I think two of the hardest games I've played are F-Zero GX on the Very Hard difficulty and Ikaruga trying to beat it without using a continue. F-Zero GX on Very Hard Story Mode is just insane. You basically have to be perfect to win. I did actually beat every mission on Very Hard though which I'm happy about. Ikaruga is also nuts. I've managed to get through it only using one continue but not without a continue. Stupid level 4...

romscout

2009-12-26 09:57:34 am

that Metroidvania guy

Quote from sagema:

It's a completely different mindset playing hard games as a kid vs an adult.

yea, no kidding. there were several nes games that i got through no problem as a kid and had infinite patience for learning, but then if i try and play them today i get frustrated fast and wonder how i ever played them in the first place. and it's not like i've gotten worse at playing games; i've probably gotten better, but just have less patience for cheap design now.

Quote from Serial_gamer:

I agree with enhasa :
-Mushihime Futari 1.5 (I've never played god difficulty, but ultra mode is quite impossible)

black label's god mode is significantly easier than ultra mode; way more fun too (at least to me)

Quote from Elpis_TK31:

GodHand

yea i'm sticking with that as the hardest game i've played, if you consider the game over screen to actually mean that

hey, anyone working on a run for that? ;o

Quote from Gamermattc89:

I think two of the hardest games I've played are F-Zero GX on the Very Hard difficulty and Ikaruga trying to beat it without using a continue.

i have f-zero gx and can't play it worth a crap, but i thought that was just me. i guess it is pretty notorious for its difficulty though, thinking on it. it just seems like one of those games that is too much effort for me to get good at... i've never been too hot at f-zero series in general to begin with.

as for ikaruga, oddly enough i 1cc'd the gamecube version a while back (on both normal and hard, probably not very good scores though), but when i tried playing it again off and on in the last year, the game seems harder to me than the cave shmups i play (ddp doj, mushi futari, deathsmiles mostly). i suppose i've gotten so used to the cave formula that it's hard to transition to other shmups, especially ones as gimmicky as ikaruga. another factor might be that i try to play for score and not survival on most shmups now, which is very much unlike how i used to play them. and trust me, i might be amongst the suckiest players in the world at scoring in ikaruga.

[quote="sagema"]
It's a completely different mindset playing hard games as a kid vs an adult.
[/quote]
yea, no kidding. there were several nes games that i got through no problem as a kid and had infinite patience for learning, but then if i try and play them today i get frustrated fast and wonder how i ever played them in the first place. and it's not like i've gotten worse at playing games; i've probably gotten better, but just have less patience for cheap design now.

[quote="Serial_gamer"]
I agree with enhasa : 
-Mushihime Futari 1.5 (I've never played god difficulty, but ultra mode is quite impossible)
[/quote]
black label's god mode is significantly easier than ultra mode; way more fun too (at least to me)

[quote="Elpis_TK31"]
GodHand
[/quote]

yea i'm sticking with that as the hardest game i've played, if you consider the game over screen to actually mean that

hey, anyone working on a run for that? ;o

[quote="Gamermattc89"]
I think two of the hardest games I've played are F-Zero GX on the Very Hard difficulty and Ikaruga trying to beat it without using a continue.
[/quote]

i have f-zero gx and can't play it worth a crap, but i thought that was just me. i guess it is pretty notorious for its difficulty though, thinking on it. it just seems like one of those games that is too much effort for me to get good at... i've never been too hot at f-zero series in general to begin with.

as for ikaruga, oddly enough i 1cc'd the gamecube version a while back (on both normal and hard, probably not very good scores though), but when i tried playing it again off and on in the last year, the game seems harder to me than the cave shmups i play (ddp doj, mushi futari, deathsmiles mostly). i suppose i've gotten so used to the cave formula that it's hard to transition to other shmups, especially ones as gimmicky as ikaruga. another factor might be that i try to play for score and not survival on most shmups now, which is very much unlike how i used to play them. and trust me, i might be amongst the suckiest players in the world at scoring in ikaruga.

ShinerCCC

2009-12-27 02:20:06 am

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

Quote:

and trust me, i might be amongst the suckiest players in the world at scoring in ikaruga.

No, that would be me, I was never able to deliver on my promise of 5.91 million points in Chapter 5 Arcade Normal ;_;

I'll be back to do it though. ONE DAY

Zugzwang

2009-12-27 04:03:59 am

No you wont Grin

BTW PM me so I can give you some money

Cevlakohn

2009-12-27 05:28:10 am

I'm a softcore, and too high of a difficulty turns me off of a game rather quickly. That said, the hardest games I've played significantly (though not beaten) are Ikaruga and Super Monkey Ball on Expert mode.