Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria

tri-Ace Fanboy

Edit history:

tri-Ace Fanboy: 2007-12-29 06:28:48 pm

2007-12-29 06:27:59 pm

Direct Assault!

Thanks guys.

The timer doesn't stop during the long loadings. I remember getting them on Valhalla and during the Ghoul Powder fetch quest, but there might be others. It was frustrating because those are the longest segments... and the Valhalla one took over 20 seconds.

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2008-01-02 07:32:34 pm

2008-01-02 07:32:07 pm

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

"Longest battle: 0:58"

bad ass.

Awesome run, I can't wait to see another one =p

Monica Smith

2008-01-07 11:27:52 pm

Can someone please let me know what levels their characters were on before they went to the final battle, thank you

Enhasa

2008-01-28 03:34:06 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Ok, I watched TAF's test run on youtube, and it's so good I'm almost speechless. Amazing for a test run, and I'm sure that the mistakes that were in it would be cut out in the real run, but for a test run the dedication was extreme. I noticed you were getting sloppier as the run went on but of course since you were just testing it doesn't matter. Here are some points I wrote down anyway.

First, the d-pad thing. I don't know what you are doing now exactly, but I think you said you were sliding your left thumb over to the d-pad or something like that. Well, the entire point of this technique is to be able to mash up or down while the analog is still being held left or right. This way, you are running full speed the whole time, and the moment you can change rooms (and not a fraction earlier), you do it. So I'm not sure if what you said accomplishes that. If the right thumb thing doesn't work for you like you said, you could also try leaving both thumbs where they are, and then bringing another finger (like your pointer finger) over to hit the d-pad. See if you can find something that works. But if you can't, it's not all that important from a time perspective, it just looks much nicer this way to never have crouching instead of exiting.

Try to minimize the number of menu trips. Compared to other games, tri-Ace menus load fast so this isn't as big an issue as it is for other games like a PS1 FF port or SD3 or whatever, but it is something, and it's also an aesthetic thing too. Since your planning is going to be impeccable, it shouldn't be hard either. Although, I just realized that since you can save in this game without having to go through the menu, maybe actually you optimized this already, so you could ignore this. Tongue

Ok, I timed what you did in the maze section of Forest of Spirits. Alkaiser did some crazy thing of his own, AquaTiger did the path I suggested, and you did something else. I timed and on the way in, the route AquaTiger used is faster than what you did. On the way out, your route is basically the same. It's within 1 sec so you can do either way. I like my path but if you like yours, you can keep it. For reference, what I said was: [up, down, right, left, up, left] on the way in, and [right, then back and forth 4 times] on the way out.

Is the reason why you fight instead of run in Yggdrasil (going to get the crystal breaking sealstone), because it's faster to just kill the leader than run on that battlefield?

I was just curious, are you going to be recording the ending or not?

Also, what are you going to do about the stats at the end? They wouldn't make it into the actual run that goes up on SDA, so I'm guessing you will just record that, youtube it, and link to it in your comments.

Thanks again for this!

Quote:

Can someone please let me know what levels their characters were on before they went to the final battle, thank you

Um, I'm too lazy to check mine, but you don't have to fight any extra fights or transfer people or anything like that.

Ok, I watched TAF's test run on youtube, and it's so good I'm almost speechless. Amazing for a test run, and I'm sure that the mistakes that were in it would be cut out in the real run, but for a test run the dedication was extreme. I noticed you were getting sloppier as the run went on but of course since you were just testing it doesn't matter. Here are some points I wrote down anyway.

First, the d-pad thing. I don't know what you are doing now exactly, but I think you said you were sliding your left thumb over to the d-pad or something like that. Well, the entire point of this technique is to be able to mash up or down [i]while the analog is still being held left or right[/i]. This way, you are running full speed the whole time, and the moment you can change rooms (and not a fraction earlier), you do it. So I'm not sure if what you said accomplishes that. If the right thumb thing doesn't work for you like you said, you could also try leaving both thumbs where they are, and then bringing another finger (like your pointer finger) over to hit the d-pad. See if you can find something that works. But if you can't, it's not all that important from a time perspective, it just looks much nicer this way to never have crouching instead of exiting.

Try to minimize the number of menu trips. Compared to other games, tri-Ace menus load fast so this isn't as big an issue as it is for other games like a PS1 FF port or SD3 or whatever, but it is something, and it's also an aesthetic thing too. Since your planning is going to be impeccable, it shouldn't be hard either. Although, I just realized that since you can save in this game without having to go through the menu, maybe actually you optimized this already, so you could ignore this. :P

Ok, I timed what you did in the maze section of Forest of Spirits. Alkaiser did some crazy thing of his own, AquaTiger did the path I suggested, and you did something else. I timed and on the way in, the route AquaTiger used is faster than what you did. On the way out, your route is basically the same. It's within 1 sec so you can do either way. I like my path but if you like yours, you can keep it. For reference, what I said was: [up, down, right, left, up, left] on the way in, and [right, then back and forth 4 times] on the way out.

Is the reason why you fight instead of run in Yggdrasil (going to get the crystal breaking sealstone), because it's faster to just kill the leader than run on that battlefield?

I was just curious, are you going to be recording the ending or not?

Also, what are you going to do about the stats at the end? They wouldn't make it into the actual run that goes up on SDA, so I'm guessing you will just record that, youtube it, and link to it in your comments.

Thanks again for this!

[quote]Can someone please let me know what levels their characters were on before they went to the final battle, thank you [/quote]
Um, I'm too lazy to check mine, but you don't have to fight any extra fights or transfer people or anything like that.

tri-Ace Fanboy

2008-01-28 12:43:59 pm

Direct Assault!

Thanks! I though I managed to enter/leave rooms pretty smoothly (don't remember any crouching after Dipan Castle). Your method is better but I'd have to re-learn all my platforming gameplay to do it: I use the d-pad for movement in 2D areas (of any game), so using the analog stick would affect how I jump, fire photons, etc.

I planned all the menu trips, but there were some errors early on. I think they're mostly gone after the Dragon Zombie.

My way in the Forest of Spirits was pretty bad, yeah. I couldn't check AquaTiger's videos when I was recording it so I didn't remember the alternate path. I believe my way out is faster if everything works perfectly. Crossing the Divinity Void has to be slower since photons can't be used.

Didn't think of fleeing in Yggdrasil. Can't see it being faster than winning (I'd need to flee again on the way out, right?), plus I need to boost the Break Mode chances for the vampire in Lezard's Tower.

Probably not recording the ending. I could, if there's interest in that.

I thought about just listing the stats in the comments, including some other things that the game doesn't keep track of (game stats don't include the final battles, for example).

Thanks! I though I managed to enter/leave rooms pretty smoothly (don't remember any crouching after Dipan Castle). Your method is better but I'd have to re-learn all my platforming gameplay to do it: I use the d-pad for movement in 2D areas (of any game), so using the analog stick would affect how I jump, fire photons, etc.

I planned all the menu trips, but there were some errors early on. I think they're mostly gone after the Dragon Zombie.

My way in the Forest of Spirits was pretty bad, yeah. I couldn't check AquaTiger's videos when I was recording it so I didn't remember the alternate path. I believe my way out is faster if everything works perfectly. Crossing the Divinity Void has to be slower since photons can't be used.

Didn't think of fleeing in Yggdrasil. Can't see it being faster than winning (I'd need to flee again on the way out, right?), plus I need to boost the Break Mode chances for the vampire in Lezard's Tower.

Probably not recording the ending. I could, if there's interest in that.

I thought about just listing the stats in the comments, including some other things that the game doesn't keep track of (game stats don't include the final battles, for example).

Enhasa

2008-01-29 03:52:31 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Quote:

Your method is better but I'd have to re-learn all my platforming gameplay to do it: I use the d-pad for movement in 2D areas (of any game)

Ohhh, that makes so much sense, I don't know why I never thought of that. Myself, I use the d-pad more than I do the analog for gaming in general, and I used the d-pad for running VP1 (although of course that game requires you often to move quickly to down for sliding). Well, it's certainly not worth it to make such a fundamental change. I am wondering though, does the analog take precedence over the d-pad, or is it just whichever you are already pressing first? At any rate, using the d-pad is much more precise than using the analog. It's fine the way it is.

Quote:

My way in the Forest of Spirits was pretty bad, yeah. I couldn't check AquaTiger's videos when I was recording it so I didn't remember the alternate path. I believe my way out is faster if everything works perfectly. Crossing the Divinity Void has to be slower since photons can't be used.

I agree with you exactly on this I think. Old way in [up, down, right, left, up, left], new way out [down, left, then back and forth]. On the way out, if you don't get to transfer, then it will be the same speed, and if you do transfer, then it will be faster.

Quote:

Didn't think of fleeing in Yggdrasil. Can't see it being faster than winning (I'd need to flee again on the way out, right?), plus I need to boost the Break Mode chances for the vampire in Lezard's Tower.

Ok, I'm an idiot. I didn't realize the obvious fact that you have to run into the guy again when leaving.

Quote:

Probably not recording the ending. I could, if there's interest in that.

I don't really care either way, but some people would probably like it, so why not.

Quote:

I thought about just listing the stats in the comments, including some other things that the game doesn't keep track of (game stats don't include the final battles, for example).

I think that's a good idea, you're right. Just listing in the comments seems better.

Ok thanks again. I was really impressed with your answers.

[quote]Your method is better but I'd have to re-learn all my platforming gameplay to do it: I use the d-pad for movement in 2D areas (of any game)[/quote]
Ohhh, that makes so much sense, I don't know why I never thought of that. Myself, I use the d-pad more than I do the analog for gaming in general, and I used the d-pad for running VP1 (although of course that game requires you often to move quickly to down for sliding). Well, it's certainly not worth it to make such a fundamental change. I am wondering though, does the analog take precedence over the d-pad, or is it just whichever you are already pressing first? At any rate, using the d-pad is much more precise than using the analog. It's fine the way it is.

[quote]My way in the Forest of Spirits was pretty bad, yeah. I couldn't check AquaTiger's videos when I was recording it so I didn't remember the alternate path. I believe my way out is faster if everything works perfectly. Crossing the Divinity Void has to be slower since photons can't be used.[/quote]
I agree with you exactly on this I think. Old way in [up, down, right, left, up, left], new way out [down, left, then back and forth]. On the way out, if you don't get to transfer, then it will be the same speed, and if you do transfer, then it will be faster.

[quote]Didn't think of fleeing in Yggdrasil. Can't see it being faster than winning (I'd need to flee again on the way out, right?), plus I need to boost the Break Mode chances for the vampire in Lezard's Tower.[/quote]
Ok, I'm an idiot. I didn't realize the obvious fact that you have to run into the guy again when leaving.

[quote]Probably not recording the ending. I could, if there's interest in that.[/quote]
I don't really care either way, but some people would probably like it, so why not.

[quote]I thought about just listing the stats in the comments, including some other things that the game doesn't keep track of (game stats don't include the final battles, for example).[/quote]
I think that's a good idea, you're right. Just listing in the comments seems better.

Ok thanks again. I was really impressed with your answers.

tri-Ace Fanboy

2008-05-17 07:03:41 pm

Direct Assault!

Would it be a problem to anyone if I kept the voices on? I don't know for sure how much time it saves but it's not like it makes a difference in the actual gameplay.

Main reason for this is that I'm convinced that turning voices off and playing perfectly (or as close to that as I can get) until Kraad's relic without saving guarantees that I'll get Roland or that Kraad joins at level 2. So I have to attack the air randomly while jumping hoping that it changes the RNG and lets me get Kraad... except it's still random and I have no way of knowing my real chances, and then I have to go through the rest of the dungeon hoping that all enemies stay in the right positions.

I could turn the voices off at the save point, or save in Lost Forest, but then I'm adding 3 or 6 seconds of gameplay to the run, compared to... uh ~15 seconds of bosses shouting? However I want everyone to be pleased with the run and would like to know if me making the run any longer to make it easier for me is a bad thing to anyone.

Would it be a problem to anyone if I kept the voices on? I don't know for sure how much time it saves but it's not like it makes a difference in the actual gameplay.

Main reason for this is that I'm convinced that turning voices off and playing perfectly (or as close to that as I can get) until Kraad's relic without saving guarantees that I'll get Roland or that Kraad joins at level 2. So I have to attack the air randomly while jumping hoping that it changes the RNG and lets me get Kraad... except it's still random and I have no way of knowing my real chances, and then I have to go through the rest of the dungeon hoping that all enemies stay in the right positions.

I could turn the voices off at the save point, or save in Lost Forest, but then I'm adding 3 or 6 seconds of gameplay to the run, compared to... uh ~15 seconds of bosses shouting? However I want everyone to be pleased with the run and would like to know if me making the run any longer to make it easier for me is a bad thing to anyone.

Enhasa

2008-06-09 12:23:36 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Over such a small time difference, I don't think anyone would care either way. In this case, since it affects the RNG, you have a very good reason to leave them on.

If you wanted to leave them on all the time, that could be considered an aesthetic choice, just like how some people leave the default character names as opposed to naming everyone like "A". Or if you wanted to turn them on or off during the run, that's ok too. I think drkhades did that on his most recent SO3 run.

sarou

Edit history:

sarou: 2008-06-10 05:48:40 pm

2008-06-10 05:46:48 pm

one-armed bandit

surprise attack! Actually it's possible to get Kraad at lvl1 without the voices. I was speedrunning this game a while back but I pretty much quit because I realised how horrible this game is to speedrun, RE4 is nothing compared to this crap ;). Here's my times compared to your practice run, TAFB.

part01 - 0:01:54 vs 0:01:54 = 0 seconds
part02 - 0:04:32 vs 0:04:22 = 10 seconds slower
part03 - 0:07:17 vs 0:07:21 = 4 seconds faster
part04 - 0:09:34 vs 0:09:45 = 11 seconds faster
part05 - 0:00:00 vs 0:13:05 = -----
part06 - 0:14:31 vs 0:14:43 = 12 seconds faster

possible to cut like 6-7 seconds from all the parts together, don't remember that good anymore. Screwed up a little in the first cave with the photons. <- gotta love this segment with uber random Kraad lvl1 and all the photon warps and the menu management at the end. The menu stuff is the reason why I'm 10 seconds slower. Then I failed to Direct Assault the second boss... I don't know if there's some trick or something but I managed to do it once. The boss just didn't attack, just like in your run. Then some of the warps could be better in seg5-6, iirc. I still have the vids if you're interested.

surprise attack! Actually it's possible to get Kraad at lvl1 without the voices. I was speedrunning this game a while back but I pretty much quit because I realised how horrible this game is to speedrun, RE4 is nothing compared to this crap ;). Here's my times compared to your practice run, TAFB.

part01 - 0:01:54 vs 0:01:54 = 0 seconds
part02 - 0:04:32 vs 0:04:22 = 10 seconds slower
part03 - 0:07:17 vs 0:07:21 = 4 seconds faster
part04 - 0:09:34 vs 0:09:45 = 11 seconds faster
part05 - 0:00:00 vs 0:13:05 = -----
part06 - 0:14:31 vs 0:14:43 = 12 seconds faster

possible to cut like 6-7 seconds from all the parts together, don't remember that good anymore. Screwed up a little in the first cave with the photons. <- gotta love this segment with uber random Kraad lvl1 and all the photon warps and the menu management at the end. The menu stuff is the reason why I'm 10 seconds slower. Then I failed to Direct Assault the second boss... I don't know if there's some trick or something but I managed to do it once. The boss just didn't attack, just like in your run. Then some of the warps could be better in seg5-6, iirc. I still have the vids if you're interested.

tri-Ace Fanboy

2008-06-11 06:01:18 am

Direct Assault!

Did you get level 1 Kraad without saving in Lost Forest? I'm trying to make it to the end of the Royal Underground Path in the first segment. With saving it's much easier because I can just swing the sword in mid-air to change the RNG or something and each retry takes 1 minute at most.

Quote:

part01 - 0:01:54 vs 0:01:54 = 0 seconds
part02 - 0:04:32 vs 0:04:22 = 10 seconds slower
part03 - 0:07:17 vs 0:07:21 = 4 seconds faster
part04 - 0:09:34 vs 0:09:45 = 11 seconds faster
part05 - 0:00:00 vs 0:13:05 = -----
part06 - 0:14:31 vs 0:14:43 = 12 seconds faster

The menu stuff is the reason why I'm 10 seconds slower. Then I failed to Direct Assault the second boss... I don't know if there's some trick or something but I managed to do it once. The boss just didn't attack, just like in your run. Then some of the warps could be better in seg5-6, iirc. I still have the vids if you're interested.

Ok so...

Your segment 2 is 10 seconds slower with the menu use, which takes 18 seconds in my run. Did you do the same things, or did you keep more characters in the party, not set a skill, etc.?

Your segment 3 is 6 seconds faster than mine without the menu use. Taking the 18 menu seconds away from my segment leaves me 12 seconds ahead in the platforming + boss fight.

Your segment 4 is 7 seconds faster. Did you pick the Double-check (I don't in the final run)?

Your segment 5 is 1 second faster than my segment 5+6. It takes around 6 seconds to save+load so removing that I'm 5 seconds ahead. In the final run I save after the Ooze to avoid any platforming errors on the way back and skip the save at Kythena Plains.

I'm interested in the videos, mainly segments 2 and 4 but it would be nice if I could see all of them. Smiley

Thanks.

Did you get level 1 Kraad without saving in Lost Forest? I'm trying to make it to the end of the Royal Underground Path in the first segment. With saving it's much easier because I can just swing the sword in mid-air to change the RNG or something and each retry takes 1 minute at most.

[quote]part01 - 0:01:54 vs 0:01:54 = 0 seconds
part02 - 0:04:32 vs 0:04:22 = 10 seconds slower
part03 - 0:07:17 vs 0:07:21 = 4 seconds faster
part04 - 0:09:34 vs 0:09:45 = 11 seconds faster
part05 - 0:00:00 vs 0:13:05 = -----
part06 - 0:14:31 vs 0:14:43 = 12 seconds faster

The menu stuff is the reason why I'm 10 seconds slower. Then I failed to Direct Assault the second boss... I don't know if there's some trick or something but I managed to do it once. The boss just didn't attack, just like in your run. Then some of the warps could be better in seg5-6, iirc. I still have the vids if you're interested.[/quote]

Ok so...

Your segment 2 is 10 seconds slower with the menu use, which takes 18 seconds in my run. Did you do the same things, or did you keep more characters in the party, not set a skill, etc.?

Your segment 3 is 6 seconds faster than mine without the menu use. Taking the 18 menu seconds away from my segment leaves me 12 seconds ahead in the platforming + boss fight.

Your segment 4 is 7 seconds faster. Did you pick the Double-check (I don't in the final run)?

Your segment 5 is 1 second faster than my segment 5+6. It takes around 6 seconds to save+load so removing that I'm 5 seconds ahead. In the final run I save after the Ooze to avoid any platforming errors on the way back and skip the save at Kythena Plains.

I'm interested in the videos, mainly segments 2 and 4 but it would be nice if I could see all of them. :) Thanks.

sarou

Edit history:

sarou: 2008-06-12 12:21:53 am

2008-06-11 11:18:55 pm

one-armed bandit

Quote from tri-Ace Fanboy:

Did you get level 1 Kraad without saving in Lost Forest? I'm trying to make it to the end of the Royal Underground Path in the first segment. With saving it's much easier because I can just swing the sword in mid-air to change the RNG or something and each retry takes 1 minute at most.

Nah, I saved in Lost Forest. Just to keep my sanity.

Quote:

Your segment 2 is 10 seconds slower with the menu use, which takes 18 seconds in my run. Did you do the same things, or did you keep more characters in the party, not set a skill, etc.?

I did the very same things you did, atleast I think I did :p.

Quote:

Your segment 3 is 6 seconds faster than mine without the menu use. Taking the 18 menu seconds away from my segment leaves me 12 seconds ahead in the platforming + boss fight.

Hmm, ok.

Quote:

Your segment 4 is 7 seconds faster. Did you pick the Double-check (I don't in the final run)?

Yes, I did.

Quote:

Your segment 5 is 1 second faster than my segment 5+6. It takes around 6 seconds to save+load so removing that I'm 5 seconds ahead. In the final run I save after the Ooze to avoid any platforming errors on the way back and skip the save at Kythena Plains.

That's what you get for not saving, shitty photon warps :p. Also, I was so frustrated at this point so I didn't care. Good I quit, though.

Anyways I'll upload all the videos soon.

[quote="tri-Ace Fanboy"]
Did you get level 1 Kraad without saving in Lost Forest? I'm trying to make it to the end of the Royal Underground Path in the first segment. With saving it's much easier because I can just swing the sword in mid-air to change the RNG or something and each retry takes 1 minute at most.[/quote]
Nah, I saved in Lost Forest. Just to keep my sanity.
[quote]
Your segment 2 is 10 seconds slower with the menu use, which takes 18 seconds in my run. Did you do the same things, or did you keep more characters in the party, not set a skill, etc.?[/quote]
I did the very same things you did, atleast I think I did :p.
[quote]
Your segment 3 is 6 seconds faster than mine without the menu use. Taking the 18 menu seconds away from my segment leaves me 12 seconds ahead in the platforming + boss fight.[/quote]
Hmm, ok.
[quote]
Your segment 4 is 7 seconds faster. Did you pick the Double-check (I don't in the final run)?[/quote]
Yes, I did.
[quote]
Your segment 5 is 1 second faster than my segment 5+6. It takes around 6 seconds to save+load so removing that I'm 5 seconds ahead. In the final run I save after the Ooze to avoid any platforming errors on the way back and skip the save at Kythena Plains.[/quote]
That's what you get for not saving, shitty photon warps :p. Also, I was so frustrated at this point so I didn't care. Good I quit, though.

Anyways I'll upload all the videos soon.

sarou

2008-06-12 01:14:52 am

one-armed bandit

part1 -
part2 -
part3 -
part4 -
part5 -
part6 -

Couple mistakes more than I remembered but it just shows there's a lot more to be improved on ;p.

tri-Ace Fanboy

2008-06-12 06:49:06 am

Direct Assault!

Thanks, that helps a lot. Looks like it's better to do all menu use before saving. Moving towards enemies after firing photons to warp a lesser distance is something I never thought of... very good trick. Also got an idea for the level 1 Kraad issue, if it works I'll finally start recording this.

When you didn't list a segment 5 time I thought you fought the Ooze and got to Serdberg in one segment, heh. The Ooze not using Lock-on is just random unfortunately.

Did you plan the future segments before quitting? Any improvements you can see in the battles compared to my test run?

sarou

2008-06-12 08:36:59 am

one-armed bandit

Nope, sorry. My plan was just to have better execution and only get items that were necessary and find new ways to photon warp. I usually plan as I go, which suits me the best. Well, the overall plan was just copied from you so ;). Now that I think of the battles, I think there was some battle where you used a Might Potion at the beginning and dashed few times behind the enemy and ran around it to build up AP. Better way would be to use the potion and just run at him and dash once and start attacking. Well, anyway good luck with your run.

Enhasa

2008-06-15 02:55:39 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

sarou, that was great. Sure, there were some minor mistakes, but I don't need to tell you what they were. Wink

sarou

2008-06-16 04:44:17 pm

one-armed bandit

all the mistakes are because of randomness anyway ;p

Enhasa

2008-06-22 01:22:36 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Yeah like every time you made an extra jump or jumped too high, or when you missed a jump onto a stationary enemy, or when you hit down too early and crouched instead of going into the next room, that was soooo random. Tongue

ps mike sux at tss

tri-Ace Fanboy

Edit history:

tri-Ace Fanboy: 2008-12-06 10:25:32 am

2008-11-30 05:12:19 am

Direct Assault!

Sorry for taking so long with this, I keep thinking of new possible timesavers that require me to restart the run. I'm in Ch4 now and after 6 or so runs I just noticed I can Soul Pierce the second Stalker for a 1-hit kill. That should save around 30 seconds, which might not seen like much but I don't see the point in releasing a run that's not the best I can do. Of course there are mistakes and compromises in the execution but at least the planning has to be optimal.

EDIT: Figured this was bad enough for a video:

Enhasa

2008-12-23 08:34:49 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Sorry not to see this earlier, I was busy, you know how it is I'm sure. :-[

Yeah, a lot of us have seen that. Oof, that's brutal.

What are you up to now? You restarted again? How many iterations are you up to now? Of course, take your time and when you finally finish this, you can have a run you can really be proud of. Smiley

tri-Ace Fanboy

2008-12-24 06:28:20 am

Direct Assault!

Yeah, I restarted. This is the 8th time, but two of those were really short runs (didn't get past Chapter 2). Trying to get through the Celes segment, matching the best time I've ever gotten on this segment would result in a 16:01 save but I keep getting more than that.

DarkTechnomancer

2009-11-14 08:32:52 pm

I'm considering trying a single-segment run of this game. So far I'm still in the planning stage. It's been a bit of a headache trying to come up with routes to minimize on luck manipulation. For instance, DA on the Primordial Ooze is almost entirely luck, and is thus most likely an unrealistic goal for a SS run. So far most of my planning has been trying to adapt the strategies in tri-Ace Fanboy and Aquatiger's runs into a more plausible SS method. Very large portions of the game are broken down into extreme luck manipulation, so I really need to come up with some more reliable strategies.

Anyway, I just figured I should make my intentions known here so that if anyone has any suggestions or is trying the same thing, we can discuss it or come up with some strategies.

Enhasa

2009-11-16 01:38:59 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

I'm going to sleep, but Molotov just told me about this post and HELL YEAH (this is my 2nd favorite game of all time)

Edit: Oh lol, I have a bounty for VP2 SS. It's not much but it's something.

What ever happened to tri-Ace Fanboy anyway? And this run, I mean. I don't really want to bother him but if someone knows, please tell me. It's actually kinda driving me crazy.

DarkTechnomancer

2009-11-16 03:25:58 am

I'm not sure what happened to tri-Ace Fanboy he's still around on the GameFAQs VP2 board, though I haven't gotten around to mentioning my project there yet (shameless lurk). As far as I can tell he's doing some work on his FAQs and playthroughs of other games.

So far my route is going pretty well (I've even got some new tricks with the photons in a couple of the dungeons). For the most part I've been following the same path as tAF, but I bought a pair of Two-Handed swords for a more consistent DA on the Ooze. Right now I'm trying to figure out how to get Kraad to level 6 for transfer after the Wyvern fight. Unfortunately the amount of chance involved in getting Celes *and* managing to get Soul Pierce to work is too unreliable for SS in my opinion. So I have to rely on the transfer method, which gets no exp.

tri-Ace Fanboy

2009-11-16 05:05:53 am

Direct Assault!

I'm not playing/running right now since my PS2 broke and I don't know if I should get another or just play on the PS3. Sorry for not saying anything.

As for the SS run, I think the best way to go is to ignore all randomness and just do a fast regular run. I mean even skip Kraad and the Kraadicator, just master the platforming and the boss fights. Getting hit, missing photons or unintended battles are going to waste a lot more time than you'd save trying to get Kraad or a rune. This removes a lot of menu use as well.

Let's say you DA the Ooze and get the Kraadicator, then you get ambushed in Crawsus and fail to escape 3 times. That's a lot of time gained from randomness wasted in a single mistake. You'd also have to adapt your strategies according to what you get. If you don't depend on random things you can build a perfect strategy for what you are guaranteed to get.

In short, a SS run can't abuse luck, so I believe it's better to just ignore it and depend entirely on your playing skill.

I'm not playing/running right now since my PS2 broke and I don't know if I should get another or just play on the PS3. Sorry for not saying anything.

As for the SS run, I think the best way to go is to ignore all randomness and just do a fast regular run. I mean even skip Kraad and the Kraadicator, just master the platforming and the boss fights. Getting hit, missing photons or unintended battles are going to waste a lot more time than you'd save trying to get Kraad or a rune. This removes a lot of menu use as well.

Let's say you DA the Ooze and get the Kraadicator, then you get ambushed in Crawsus and fail to escape 3 times. That's a lot of time gained from randomness wasted in a single mistake. You'd also have to adapt your strategies according to what you get. If you don't depend on random things you can build a perfect strategy for what you are guaranteed to get.

In short, a SS run can't abuse luck, so I believe it's better to just ignore it and depend entirely on your playing skill.

Molotov

Edit history:

Molotov: 2009-11-16 03:24:38 pm

2009-11-16 03:14:11 pm

Quote from DarkTechnomancer:

Right now I'm trying to figure out how to get Kraad to level 6 for transfer after the Wyvern fight. Unfortunately the amount of chance involved in getting Celes *and* managing to get Soul Pierce to work is too unreliable for SS in my opinion. So I have to rely on the transfer method, which gets no exp.

Well, it's worth noting that you have a Double-check at your disposal for Primordial Ooze. Tearing the right shoulder off, using the Flare Gem, using the Double-check, and then finishing it off only takes about 1:06. It wasn't a Direct Assault, but 4 levels from one fight was awesome. So basically: level 1 Kraad -> full party Ballistic Rhino (no need for a Direct Assault) -> solo Kraad for the forced skeleton battle (hits level 2) -> solo Kraad + Double-check for Primordial Ooze (level 6) -> a winner is you. Smiley

Quote from tri-Ace Fanboy:

As for the SS run, I think the best way to go is to ignore all randomness and just do a fast regular run. I mean even skip Kraad and the Kraadicator, just master the platforming and the boss fights. Getting hit, missing photons or unintended battles are going to waste a lot more time than you'd save trying to get Kraad or a rune. This removes a lot of menu use as well.

Let's say you DA the Ooze and get the Kraadicator, then you get ambushed in Crawsus and fail to escape 3 times. That's a lot of time gained from randomness wasted in a single mistake. You'd also have to adapt your strategies according to what you get. If you don't depend on random things you can build a perfect strategy for what you are guaranteed to get.

In short, a SS run can't abuse luck, so I believe it's better to just ignore it and depend entirely on your playing skill.

While I understand the need for consistency, ignoring luck entirely would be a terrible idea. Kraad is early game and has a whopping 50% chance of showing up, so skipping him makes no sense at all to me. The Kraadicator is just way too useful and saves too much time to skip.

Zunde, on the other hand, should be skipped. I honestly don't think it would hurt to try picking him up, because if you do get lucky, that's awesome. If not, just move on with Dylan + Kraadicator. Then again, I don't know off-hand just how bad the other two choices are, so maybe you could replace Zunde with one of them? I know one of them gets Dreaded Radius early, so there you go. ~~Honestly though, I somewhat expect Adonis to be the replacement.~~

Also worth noting that if you bother to pick up a Great Eagle Heart early on, you'll most likely end up with a few Tome of Godspeed to go with it. Solves that ambush scenario entirely, since it's not like you're going to get super killed on easy mode. Tongue

[Edit]: Apparently Aaron is the one I was thinking of. That's a bummer, but you still have decent odds of getting someone you want from that relic (since either Zunde or Aaron works).

[quote="DarkTechnomancer"]Right now I'm trying to figure out how to get Kraad to level 6 for transfer after the Wyvern fight. Unfortunately the amount of chance involved in getting Celes *and* managing to get Soul Pierce to work is too unreliable for SS in my opinion. So I have to rely on the transfer method, which gets no exp.[/quote]

Well, it's worth noting that you have a Double-check at your disposal for Primordial Ooze. Tearing the right shoulder off, using the Flare Gem, using the Double-check, and then finishing it off only takes about 1:06. It wasn't a Direct Assault, but 4 levels from one fight was awesome. So basically: level 1 Kraad -> full party Ballistic Rhino (no need for a Direct Assault) -> solo Kraad for the forced skeleton battle (hits level 2) -> solo Kraad + Double-check for Primordial Ooze (level 6) -> a winner is you. :)

[quote="tri-Ace Fanboy"]As for the SS run, I think the best way to go is to ignore all randomness and just do a fast regular run. I mean even skip Kraad and the Kraadicator, just master the platforming and the boss fights. Getting hit, missing photons or unintended battles are going to waste a lot more time than you'd save trying to get Kraad or a rune. This removes a lot of menu use as well.

Let's say you DA the Ooze and get the Kraadicator, then you get ambushed in Crawsus and fail to escape 3 times. That's a lot of time gained from randomness wasted in a single mistake. You'd also have to adapt your strategies according to what you get. If you don't depend on random things you can build a perfect strategy for what you are guaranteed to get.

In short, a SS run can't abuse luck, so I believe it's better to just ignore it and depend entirely on your playing skill.[/quote]

While I understand the need for consistency, ignoring luck entirely would be a terrible idea. Kraad is early game and has a whopping 50% chance of showing up, so skipping him makes no sense at all to me. The Kraadicator is just way too useful and saves too much time to skip.

Zunde, on the other hand, should be skipped. I honestly don't think it would hurt to try picking him up, because if you do get lucky, that's awesome. If not, just move on with Dylan + Kraadicator. Then again, I don't know off-hand just how bad the other two choices are, so maybe you could replace Zunde with one of them? I know one of them gets Dreaded Radius early, so there you go. [s]Honestly though, I somewhat expect Adonis to be the replacement.[/s]

Also worth noting that if you bother to pick up a Great Eagle Heart early on, you'll most likely end up with a few Tome of Godspeed to go with it. Solves that ambush scenario entirely, since it's not like you're going to get super killed on easy mode. :P

[Edit]: Apparently Aaron is the one I was thinking of. That's a bummer, but you still have decent odds of getting someone you want from that relic (since either Zunde or Aaron works).