Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria

2007-05-04 07:14:57 pm

Never give up!

Still need to establish the middle of the run's strategies - specifically the latter half of chapter 3, and chapters 4 and 5 - but I have an idea what to do for chapter 6.

For my party on Chapter 6, for both segmented and SS runs, the party will initially be Brahms, Rufus, Phyress/Ehrde, and one other fighter. In a segmented run, this will be Zunde, no questions asked. For an SS? If I got Zunde it's probably still going to be him, but if I got bad luck and wound up with Dyn or possibly even Aaron, I'm going to have Lenneth or maybe Hrist fill that hole (and equip whichever one with all the accessories). My idea is having the most powerful fighter I can in the active party and having everyone else build hits (I too plan to use SCs against Lezard Valeth in the first real round). After the first real Lezard fight, when the valkyries are gone? I'll probably put whatever fighter I actually got in their place - even Dyn has better attacks than Arngrim, my alternate choice - although in that case the crystal fight will be with a full team, rather than with two at most like I plan to do in a segmented run (too many attackers will actually make the crystal fight SLOWER IMO, because of AP waste - Zunde and Phyress would be my pair in a segmented run).

Anarchic Entity I'm not concerned with, because I'll only HAVE four party members going into that fight. I'm hoping to be powerful enough to take out Anarchic Entity in one Soul Crush series - and with the amount of power we'll have, I not only think it's possible, I think we may be able to do it without needing all four characters to do their SCs.

I'll come up with midgame (starting from Surt's Volcano Caverns and ending at about the start of Chapter 6) strategies later.

Still need to establish the middle of the run's strategies - specifically the latter half of chapter 3, and chapters 4 and 5 - but I have an idea what to do for chapter 6.

For my party on Chapter 6, for both segmented and SS runs, the party will initially be Brahms, Rufus, Phyress/Ehrde, and one other fighter.  In a segmented run, this will be Zunde, no questions asked.  For an SS?  If I got Zunde it's probably still going to be him, but if I got bad luck and wound up with Dyn or possibly even Aaron, I'm going to have Lenneth or maybe Hrist fill that hole (and equip whichever one with all the accessories).  My idea is having the most powerful fighter I can in the active party and having everyone else build hits (I too plan to use SCs against Lezard Valeth in the first real round).  After the first real Lezard fight, when the valkyries are gone?  I'll probably put whatever fighter I actually got in their place - even Dyn has better attacks than Arngrim, my alternate choice - although in that case the crystal fight will be with a full team, rather than with two at most like I plan to do in a segmented run (too many attackers will actually make the crystal fight SLOWER IMO, because of AP waste - Zunde and Phyress would be my pair in a segmented run).

Anarchic Entity I'm not concerned with, because I'll only HAVE four party members going into that fight.  I'm hoping to be powerful enough to take out Anarchic Entity in one Soul Crush series - and with the amount of power we'll have, I not only think it's possible, I think we may be able to do it without needing all four characters to do their SCs.

I'll come up with midgame (starting from Surt's Volcano Caverns and ending at about the start of Chapter 6) strategies later.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-05-05 05:59:21 am

2007-05-05 05:03:20 am

Never give up!

This post specifically concerns itself with midgame strategies.

Starting from around Evolver, or whatever point my lowest-level einherjar can reach release level in a single fight, I plan on putting one other character in with whatever fighter I use.

In a segmented run, Zunde and whoever else.

In an SS that wasn't lucky enough to get Zunde? It's probably going to start as Dylan and whichever heavy fighter I got for a few fights, then I'll switch to that heavy fighter and whoever I'm trying to level.

Here's the plans for the secondary characters so far:

Evolver: I can probably put anyone in the second slot - in a segmented run, it'll probably be Mithra. He SHOULD gain enough levels from both fights to hit release point.

Hydra: No question in my mind, Alicia's the secondary in this fight. I honestly don't know whether Evolver will be a late enough point where Alicia can get three skills from a single battle (I'd say all the skills she needs, but we need to get Magician Slayer later), but I KNOW FOR SURE Hydra is.

Dragon Zombie: Probably Woltar/Alm.

Ull, Walther/Gyne, Hrist/Arngrim: For the bosses in Chapter 4, I'm putting both Rufus and Phyress into the active party. I also will equip Rufus to start learning Double Edge (I'll knock loose the Red Slashing rune from a battle in Dragonscrypt if I must). I may have Phyress actively participate in the case of Ull, since Flame Shot throws quite far and we should be able to abuse that fact to get purple gems. (I know for sure that I do NOT want her to actively participate against Hrist/Arngrim.) I want to save a Double-Check and plan on using it against Hrist/Arngrim, since apparently killing the leader grants the experience from ALL enemies in the fight, and Hrist/Arngrim's worth more than Walther/Gyne.

Arectaris: I only MIGHT need Rufus here. If I find we have enough power to take out Arectaris without an AP heal, Rufus is being pulled out for an einherjar below release level.

From here, it's always going to be lower-levelled einherjar in battles. Once I run out of einherjar to level to the release point, Alicia tags in to learn Magician Slayer. Once THAT happens, Phyress stays in as the second character until we can form a full party involving Brahms (we'll add Rufus back in then).

Though as far as sealstones, at least in a segmented run, I'll use Wrath of Forcefulness (with early battles and the notes about what kind of damage Zunde can deal with that stone as part of the setup, it's nearly a sealed deal) AND Sword Blessing as much as possible. One exception - I'll use JUST Wrath of Forcefulness in Yggdrasil, so I can use that pillar-break Sealstone. In an SS? Probably just Sword Blessing all the way, unless we can restore something else that's remotely good. Maybe Fire Blessing?

This post specifically concerns itself with midgame strategies.

Starting from around Evolver, or whatever point my lowest-level einherjar can reach release level in a single fight, I plan on putting one other character in with whatever fighter I use.

In a segmented run, Zunde and whoever else.

In an SS that wasn't lucky enough to get Zunde?  It's probably going to start as Dylan and whichever heavy fighter I got for a few fights, then I'll switch to that heavy fighter and whoever I'm trying to level.

Here's the plans for the secondary characters so far:

Evolver: I can probably put anyone in the second slot - in a segmented run, it'll probably be Mithra.  He SHOULD gain enough levels from both fights to hit release point.

Hydra: No question in my mind, Alicia's the secondary in this fight.  I honestly don't know whether Evolver will be a late enough point where Alicia can get three skills from a single battle (I'd say all the skills she needs, but we need to get Magician Slayer later), but I KNOW FOR SURE Hydra is.

Dragon Zombie: Probably Woltar/Alm.

Ull, Walther/Gyne, Hrist/Arngrim: For the bosses in Chapter 4, I'm putting both Rufus and Phyress into the active party.  I also will equip Rufus to start learning Double Edge (I'll knock loose the Red Slashing rune from a battle in Dragonscrypt if I must).  I may have Phyress actively participate in the case of Ull, since Flame Shot throws quite far and we should be able to abuse that fact to get purple gems.  (I know for sure that I do NOT want her to actively participate against Hrist/Arngrim.)  I want to save a Double-Check and plan on using it against Hrist/Arngrim, since apparently killing the leader grants the experience from ALL enemies in the fight, and Hrist/Arngrim's worth more than Walther/Gyne.

Arectaris: I only MIGHT need Rufus here.  If I find we have enough power to take out Arectaris without an AP heal, Rufus is being pulled out for an einherjar below release level.

From here, it's always going to be lower-levelled einherjar in battles.  Once I run out of einherjar to level to the release point, Alicia tags in to learn Magician Slayer.  Once THAT happens, Phyress stays in as the second character until we can form a full party involving Brahms (we'll add Rufus back in then).

Though as far as sealstones, at least in a segmented run, I'll use Wrath of Forcefulness (with early battles and the notes about what kind of damage Zunde can deal with that stone as part of the setup, it's nearly a sealed deal) AND Sword Blessing as much as possible.  One exception - I'll use JUST Wrath of Forcefulness in Yggdrasil, so I can use that pillar-break Sealstone.  In an SS? Probably just Sword Blessing all the way, unless we can restore something else that's remotely good.  Maybe Fire Blessing?

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-05-08 10:46:26 pm

2007-05-08 03:39:47 pm

Never give up!

I started the test run last night, and here's what I've noted:

First two segments we've already covered in a lot of our discussion.

Segment 3 - I just use Kraad and Dylan against Ballistic Rhino this time. I might want to try and get an Empty Shell from this fight - I don't know yet.

Segment 4 - I've finally discovered where that Double-Check is. Those tri-Ace people are good at hiding treasures. I'll detour for it, though.

Segment 5 - I've FINALLY been able to get a DA on Primorial Ooze. In addition to free crystals, it will influence a later decision.

Segment 6 - Now, if Wrath of Forcefulness pans out - and that's what I'm trying to determine in this test run - the run shall grind to a halt here for a few minutes while I crystal-farm. I didn't do this earlier because I wanted Dylan and Kraad for the job.

Segment 7 is as the previous run.

Segment 8 we've previously discussed - I'm detouring for a Might Potion, and we're getting Celes.

Segment 9 is where that Primorial Ooze DA really reaches. Even if we decide to go for a poison kill on Griffon, we do not need Woltar specifically because DAing Primorial Ooze nets us an Earth Gem.

Segment 10's pretty simple. But unless we use the Double-Check HERE, at least from what my test run found, we will need to fight extra battles in Serdberg for Kraad to reach release level.

Segment 11 - If we really DO need Kraad to fight more, it will be in the Divinity Void room. Then I release him, get the stuff from Coriander and Villnore, and save outside Ancient Forest.

Segment 12 - I have a choice. I can fight a Goat Man and break its right arm for a Piercing Imprint, or I can break the Toxic Flower's body for a Poison Seed. Both grant our Red Weakness rune. After which, I save before Griffon.

Segment 13 - For Griffon, we have a choice. We can poison it and try out Enhasa's turbo trick, or (with Dylan and the Kraadicator) we can DA the Griffon and get a Charge Break. My test run goes for the DA strategy - first using the Double-Check. We then save outside Audoula.

Segment 14 - Here's about where I am right now. In my test run I skipped getting the Red Weakness rune in Ancient Forest. Since I couldn't remember where Lizard Lords were in Audoula, I took a 1 1/2 minute penalty and went back for a Poison Seed in Ancient Forest.

Edit: Another note. Depending on what other stuff the crystal-farming in Lost Forest gets us, I may consider going to get some Stun Checks in Solde before heading for Kythena Plains. Might help a bit against Evolver, but if it's unreasonable to get them right away, I'm scrapping the idea. We should be doing too much damage to need to worry about resistances most of the time.

I started the test run last night, and here's what I've noted:

First two segments we've already covered in a lot of our discussion.

Segment 3 - I just use Kraad and Dylan against Ballistic Rhino this time.  I might want to try and get an Empty Shell from this fight - I don't know yet.

Segment 4 - I've finally discovered where that Double-Check is.  Those tri-Ace people are good at hiding treasures.  I'll detour for it, though.

Segment 5 - I've FINALLY been able to get a DA on Primorial Ooze.  In addition to free crystals, it will influence a later decision.

Segment 6 - Now, if Wrath of Forcefulness pans out - and that's what I'm trying to determine in this test run - the run shall grind to a halt here for a few minutes while I crystal-farm.  I didn't do this earlier because I wanted Dylan and Kraad for the job.

Segment 7 is as the previous run.

Segment 8 we've previously discussed - I'm detouring for a Might Potion, and we're getting Celes.

Segment 9 is where that Primorial Ooze DA really reaches.  Even if we decide to go for a poison kill on Griffon, we do not need Woltar specifically because DAing Primorial Ooze nets us an Earth Gem.

Segment 10's pretty simple.  But unless we use the Double-Check HERE, at least from what my test run found, we will need to fight extra battles in Serdberg for Kraad to reach release level.

Segment 11 - If we really DO need Kraad to fight more, it will be in the Divinity Void room.  Then I release him, get the stuff from Coriander and Villnore, and save outside Ancient Forest.

Segment 12 - I have a choice.  I can fight a Goat Man and break its right arm for a Piercing Imprint, or I can break the Toxic Flower's body for a Poison Seed.  Both grant our Red Weakness rune.  After which, I save before Griffon.

Segment 13 - For Griffon, we have a choice.  We can poison it and try out Enhasa's turbo trick, or (with Dylan and the Kraadicator) we can DA the Griffon and get a Charge Break.  My test run goes for the DA strategy - first using the Double-Check.  We then save outside Audoula.

Segment 14 - Here's about where I am right now.  In my test run I skipped getting the Red Weakness rune in Ancient Forest.  Since I couldn't remember where Lizard Lords were in Audoula, I took a 1 1/2 minute penalty and went back for a Poison Seed in Ancient Forest.

Edit: Another note.  Depending on what other stuff the crystal-farming in Lost Forest gets us, I may consider going to get some Stun Checks in Solde before heading for Kythena Plains.  Might help a bit against Evolver, but if it's unreasonable to get them right away, I'm scrapping the idea.  We should be doing too much damage to need to worry about resistances most of the time.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-05-10 04:56:06 am

2007-05-09 11:22:52 pm

Never give up!

The day's update on the run - I'm going to keep doing it this way if no one else responds.

The first part's going to be a shocker to some people, but trust me, the risk is quite calculated.

It turns out Phyress, in our current setup, actually isn't going to be all that helpful against Kraken. She deals too little damage at level 8 to make a difference - Dylan deals much more damage per AP, especially considering that I'm likely to give him a Might Potion for that battle (my order was Absolute Strike - Heavyweight). This being said, I'm debating whether to skip that einherjar and pick up Sophalla/Arcana in Surt's Volcano Caverns instead - I'd skip out on a second archer altogether, but that means skipping the Mistletein bow and I'm not yet sure skipping that's a good idea (we'll see if I need the power that releasing it grants, as releasing with it grants more stat increases than any other weapon in the main game as far as speedruns are concerned).

As far as Surt's Volcano Caverns, if I get the Core Ruby item from those Red Jewels BEFORE fighting Evolver, I think I can go with a party of Zunde/Mithra/Alicia. Zunde can be set to learn Fists of Iron and Alicia can be set to learn Mental Boost, Magician Slayer, and Psychosoma. See, Zunde learned Fists of Iron after just the first of those two battles when Mithra was the only other party member, so surely I can have Alicia (who was a lower level than Mithra was in this version) learn SOMEthing from this. In addition, I can use Mithra and Alicia as bait in the second fight if I must - or keep them along to increase attack radius.

Speaking of the Evolver fights, I sadly am going to be forced to use a Might Potion here. I will also have to boost Zunde's HP to at least 450, and take the Fire Blessing along. Why? I have had only one or two attempts out of 20 where Evolver 2 didn't radial after the first attack chain. On the other hand, I could potentially get 2 DAs here.

....I seriously need to add up the DAs after getting Sword Blessing to see how many extra fights would be needed for Wrath of Forcefulness.

Currently about to run through Crawsus. Pretty soon we'll see if our gamble pays off.

Edit: Okay, my later playing has so far gotten me to the start of Chapter 5. I'm only about three minutes from the old time to this point, whereas I was 7 minutes behind at the start of Chapter 4.

It turns out I CAN get Rufus to level 25 before Arectaris. Two Expert's Experiences, then have him and Zunde only in during the Ull fight, then have him, Zunde, and two other einherjar in for the Walther/Gyne fight.

Ull is remarkably easy and probably faster with my strategy. I didn't need to use the Holy Water of Mithra this time, but it unfortunately does NOT pierce Feather Guard.

To give you an idea of the power of this setup, the Kraadicator, all the accessories, plus both Sword Blessing and Wrath of Forcefulness, once allowed me to deal 15000+ damage with a single Dreaded Radius to Walther's back. 15,000! And even using the Hrunting I can take him out in two hits. I now have no doubt in my mind the reward that Wrath of Forcefulness presents is worth the risk. In this test run, though, I didn't have one attempt where both the Kraadicator did not break AND Zunde wasn't killed. So I'll be willing to use the Hrunting (from those Muscular Stalkers), the Screp, the Bastard Sword.... heck, ANYTHING except the Kraadicator if it means winning the fight. I still need that Kraadicator.

Hrist can be taken out in three hits if I pump up with a Might Potion first. I had Zunde solo that fight because no one else needed levels (IIRC, only maximum HP rises at levelup - current HP does not).

All told, I think we will have a winner. Although I highly envy Alkaiser's platforming skills by now - I always am horrible at those parts.

The day's update on the run - I'm going to keep doing it this way if no one else responds.

The first part's going to be a shocker to some people, but trust me, the risk is quite calculated.

It turns out Phyress, in our current setup, actually isn't going to be all that helpful against Kraken.  She deals too little damage at level 8 to make a difference - Dylan deals much more damage per AP, especially considering that I'm likely to give him a Might Potion for that battle (my order was Absolute Strike - Heavyweight).  This being said, I'm debating whether to skip that einherjar and pick up Sophalla/Arcana in Surt's Volcano Caverns instead - I'd skip out on a second archer altogether, but that means skipping the Mistletein bow and I'm not yet sure skipping that's a good idea (we'll see if I need the power that releasing it grants, as releasing with it grants more stat increases than any other weapon in the main game as far as speedruns are concerned).

As far as Surt's Volcano Caverns, if I get the Core Ruby item from those Red Jewels BEFORE fighting Evolver, I think I can go with a party of Zunde/Mithra/Alicia.  Zunde can be set to learn Fists of Iron and Alicia can be set to learn Mental Boost, Magician Slayer, and Psychosoma.  See, Zunde learned Fists of Iron after just the first of those two battles when Mithra was the only other party member, so surely I can have Alicia (who was a lower level than Mithra was in this version) learn SOMEthing from this.  In addition, I can use Mithra and Alicia as bait in the second fight if I must - or keep them along to increase attack radius.

Speaking of the Evolver fights, I sadly am going to be forced to use a Might Potion here.  I will also have to boost Zunde's HP to at least 450, and take the Fire Blessing along.  Why?  I have had only one or two attempts out of 20 where Evolver 2 didn't radial after the first attack chain.  On the other hand, I could potentially get 2 DAs here.

....I seriously need to add up the DAs after getting Sword Blessing to see how many extra fights would be needed for Wrath of Forcefulness.

Currently about to run through Crawsus.  Pretty soon we'll see if our gamble pays off.

Edit: Okay, my later playing has so far gotten me to the start of Chapter 5.  I'm only about three minutes from the old time to this point, whereas I was 7 minutes behind at the start of Chapter 4.

It turns out I CAN get Rufus to level 25 before Arectaris.  Two Expert's Experiences, then have him and Zunde only in during the Ull fight, then have him, Zunde, and two other einherjar in for the Walther/Gyne fight.

Ull is remarkably easy and probably faster with my strategy.  I didn't need to use the Holy Water of Mithra this time, but it unfortunately does NOT pierce Feather Guard.

To give you an idea of the power of this setup, the Kraadicator, all the accessories, plus both Sword Blessing and Wrath of Forcefulness, once allowed me to deal 15000+ damage with a single Dreaded Radius to Walther's back.  15,000!  And even using the Hrunting I can take him out in two hits.  I now have no doubt in my mind the reward that Wrath of Forcefulness presents is worth the risk.  In this test run, though, I didn't have one attempt where both the Kraadicator did not break AND Zunde wasn't killed.  So I'll be willing to use the Hrunting (from those Muscular Stalkers), the Screp, the Bastard Sword.... heck, ANYTHING except the Kraadicator if it means winning the fight.  I still need that Kraadicator.

Hrist can be taken out in three hits if I pump up with a Might Potion first.  I had Zunde solo that fight because no one else needed levels (IIRC, only maximum HP rises at levelup - current HP does not).

All told, I think we will have a winner.  Although I highly envy Alkaiser's platforming skills by now - I always am horrible at those parts.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-05-12 04:08:00 pm

2007-05-12 01:08:32 am

Never give up!

I missed updating yesterday, as I didn't play the game much between then and now.

For Forest of Spirits, since I'm SO overpowered thanks to the Wrath of Forcefulness, I actually think it may be faster for me to fight the three plant minibosses rather than try to evade them. At the least, the first one is slower to dodge, from my experience, than to fight with a setup like mine. The second and third may be faster to dodge if they cooperate.

Arectaris. Even if I break the Kraadicator on the first strike against him, which I did in the test run, I still take him out in two hits when boosted with a Might Potion.

For Heimdall, I need to rearrange the attacks to Smashing Swing - Dreaded Radius - Sweep Dive. I also hope to attain Break Mode - if I do, Heimdall gets owned in the worst possible way.

With a Might Potion, I can KO Odin in just two or maybe three hits. On BOTH of the fights. For the second one, because Odin has a habit of using radial attacks regardless of his HP, I'm using Lezard as a decoy so Odin will come out and be in range for Zunde to smash him.

Note that in the test run, on the final hit of the second Odin fight, the Arectaris blade broke. Since I only need two weapons to release with, I don't care. I'll just make sure to keep the Flamberge unused, in case I need all 4 SCs.

I am also proud to say that the Valhalla segment is where I have finally overtaken Alkaiser's run. I'm now about two minutes ahead of him. I guess Wrath of Forcefulness really IS worth it after all.

Edit: And the rest of it.

I will be so powerful that transferring some of the bosses in Chapter 6 won't be needed - I can take them on directly. Lezard Valeth drops in 2 or 3 hits, Omnipotent Entity takes just 1 hit to stun, the crystal takes 4 blows, and with Valkyrie as powerful as she was, it took just 4 hits to take out Anarchic Entity. Mirage Pierce (learned through Expert's Experiences) alone dealt a whopping 42000 damage! (For perspective, I think Anarchic Entity has only 100k.)

That being said, I may be able to get just five einherjar and get away with it. Those five being: Mithra (we can release him any time - I don't even need the Holy Water of Mithra at all), Kraad (our only early release), Sha-Kon (just so we can release Crescent Arrow), Celes (for Wyvern and to release the Glance Reviver), and Zunde (our star). With the amount of power I HAD, we can definitely cut back and still have very good chances. I may still pick up Woltar/Alm so I can release with both the Deluge and Ether Scepters - the Ether Scepter is very little time lost for its release value.

I think my practice run wound up about 7 or 8 minutes ahead of Alkaiser's run. Funny how much time I made up AFTER Palace of the Venerated Dragon.

I missed updating yesterday, as I didn't play the game much between then and now.

For Forest of Spirits, since I'm SO overpowered thanks to the Wrath of Forcefulness, I actually think it may be faster for me to fight the three plant minibosses rather than try to evade them.  At the least, the first one is slower to dodge, from my experience, than to fight with a setup like mine.  The second and third may be faster to dodge if they cooperate.

Arectaris.  Even if I break the Kraadicator on the first strike against him, which I did in the test run, I still take him out in two hits when boosted with a Might Potion.

For Heimdall, I need to rearrange the attacks to Smashing Swing - Dreaded Radius - Sweep Dive.  I also hope to attain Break Mode - if I do, Heimdall gets owned in the worst possible way.

With a Might Potion, I can KO Odin in just two or maybe three hits.  On BOTH of the fights.  For the second one, because Odin has a habit of using radial attacks regardless of his HP, I'm using Lezard as a decoy so Odin will come out and be in range for Zunde to smash him.

Note that in the test run, on the final hit of the second Odin fight, the Arectaris blade broke.  Since I only need two weapons to release with, I don't care.  I'll just make sure to keep the Flamberge unused, in case I need all 4 SCs.

I am also proud to say that the Valhalla segment is where I have finally overtaken Alkaiser's run.  I'm now about two minutes ahead of him.  I guess Wrath of Forcefulness really IS worth it after all.

Edit: And the rest of it.

I will be so powerful that transferring some of the bosses in Chapter 6 won't be needed - I can take them on directly.  Lezard Valeth drops in 2 or 3 hits, Omnipotent Entity takes just 1 hit to stun, the crystal takes 4 blows, and with Valkyrie as powerful as she was, it took just 4 hits to take out Anarchic Entity.  Mirage Pierce (learned through Expert's Experiences) alone dealt a whopping 42000 damage!  (For perspective, I think Anarchic Entity has only 100k.)

That being said, I may be able to get just five einherjar and get away with it.  Those five being: Mithra (we can release him any time - I don't even need the Holy Water of Mithra at all), Kraad (our only early release), Sha-Kon (just so we can release Crescent Arrow), Celes (for Wyvern and to release the Glance Reviver), and Zunde (our star).  With the amount of power I HAD, we can definitely cut back and still have very good chances.  I may still pick up Woltar/Alm so I can release with both the Deluge and Ether Scepters - the Ether Scepter is very little time lost for its release value.

I think my practice run wound up about 7 or 8 minutes ahead of Alkaiser's run.  Funny how much time I made up AFTER Palace of the Venerated Dragon.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-05-14 03:28:07 am

2007-05-14 03:21:34 am

Never give up!

I REALLY want someone to respond to this - it's been over a week since I had anyone else comment or inform as far as this game goes, which is very unusual since both of my main advice-givers have been here at least a few times since then.

Anyway, here's a rough summary of my path through the game:

Lost Forest, go through as normal.

Royal Underground Path, get Kraad only. But make sure to snag the Thunder Gem.

Ballistic Rhino, use just Dylan and Kraad and go for the DA. I've always lined up Dylan to either side of Kraad - I wonder if lining Dylan up behind Kraad would make it easier for him to hit.

Dipan Castle, get that Double-check and don't forget the Flare Gem.

Primorial Ooze, use Dylan and Kraad again and go for the DA again.

Lost Forest after Dipan? I've concluded we are going to get either 6 or 7 DAs between now and Wrath of Forcefulness... I'm going to say 7, with one Muscular Stalker - or maybe the Hydra in Crawsus, because of a later decision - being the X-factor here. So I need 10 DAs here to afford Wrath of Forcefulness later. I think I'll use Kraad alone - maybe this way he'll get the experience he needs to release after Wyvern without more battles.

Kythena, get the Fish Scales as usual - with Dylan and Kraad partnering.

Serdberg, get Celes and the Might Potion for sure. Debate whether to get Woltar/Alm before I get here. Also restore the Sword Blessing on the way in.

Wyvern, use Celes and make sure Kraad's also in the fight. Release him after this battle with either the Striking Sword or no weapon at all - do I really NEED that 1 Fencer's Familiarity? (I can use the Striking Sword as a backup weapon in a Chapter 4 fight if I must - Walther and Gyne were huge weapon-break culprits.)

Deal with stuff in Coriander and Villnore NOW rather than after Ancient Forest.

Ancient Forest, make sure to get a Poison Seed before Wyvern. Also get the archer on the way in.

Griffon, use Dylan and attack from behind with the Kraadicator for a DA. Not only does this help our crystal requirement, it nets us a Charge Break. I may consider holding on to the Double-check rather than using it here.

Audoula, skip Khanon and Phyress. Also push the block to the right as before - by doing this and switching the water, I can place Chasm Wrath without changing my route at all.

Kraken, here I make a decision. Do I go for a faster kill now, or do I save a Might Potion for Hydra? Regardless, this fight is all Dylan, and I'm counting on needing that Charge Break I got from Griffon.

Kalstad, make sure to buy a Duel Helm - it gives our head rune for Psychosoma. Also make sure to get a Red Cherry - that's our Activation Rune for both Psychosoma and Magician Slayer.

Sahma Desert, get Zunde regardless of how bad our swaps are.

Surt's Volcano Caverns, I need to knock loose a Core Ruby, as that provides our last rune for Psychosoma. Before Evolver, equip Zunde to learn Fists of Iron, and equip Alicia to learn Psychosoma, Mental Boost, and Magician Slayer. Also make a party of Zunde/Alicia/Mithra.

Evolver, use the Might Potion during the second fight and leave Alicia and Mithra as decoys for Evolver's attacks. I may use the Double-check during the first fight of this rather than way back against Griffon - if I do, I may stick Celes in the party as well. We'll see how many einherjar we can clear in a single bout.

Crawsus should be gone through just like last run.

For Hydra, if I saved my Might Potion, I use it here, plain and simple.

In Dragonscrypt, I get the Double-check here and skip the Magic Bangle. I also need to knock loose a Swordfish Snout here - it's a Red Slashing Rune, so I can get Zunde to start learning Magician Slayer. I also set Alicia up to learn Fists of Iron. Once Alicia's learned that she can go to the back ranks for the rest of the run - Valkyrie will be set skill-wise.

For Palace of the Venerated Dragon, I need to restore Wrath of Forcefulness at some point. I think I'll wait to pick up Sword Blessing until right before Dragon Zombie, so I can get the other needed sealstones. I need to knock loose a Bloody Patch from one of the Muscular Stalkers here.

Dragon Zombie should be pathetic at this point - the difficulty is knocking loose a Dragon Rib.

For Chapter 4, I plan on having Sha-Kon/Chrystie in during the Ull fight and Woltar/Alm, if I got them, in for the Walther/Gyne fight. I'll use my Double-check against Hrist/Arngrim, so Zunde can power up some more. Between the Palace and this, I need 3 Expert's Experiences for the endgame, but may use the others on Zunde for a few more HP/ATK.

After that, the run basically degenerates into a smashfest with Sword Blessing and Wrath of Forcefulness owning every boss in sight.

My biggest remaining question marks center around Woltar/Alm (who I'd get to release with the Ether Scepter) and the Kraken/Hydra issue (who to use a Might Potion against).

I REALLY want someone to respond to this - it's been over a week since I had anyone else comment or inform as far as this game goes, which is very unusual since both of my main advice-givers have been here at least a few times since then.

Anyway, here's a rough summary of my path through the game:

Lost Forest, go through as normal.

Royal Underground Path, get Kraad only.  But make sure to snag the Thunder Gem.

Ballistic Rhino, use just Dylan and Kraad and go for the DA.  I've always lined up Dylan to either side of Kraad - I wonder if lining Dylan up behind Kraad would make it easier for him to hit.

Dipan Castle, get that Double-check and don't forget the Flare Gem.

Primorial Ooze, use Dylan and Kraad again and go for the DA again.

Lost Forest after Dipan?  I've concluded we are going to get either 6 or 7 DAs between now and Wrath of Forcefulness... I'm going to say 7, with one Muscular Stalker - or maybe the Hydra in Crawsus, because of a later decision - being the X-factor here.  So I need 10 DAs here to afford Wrath of Forcefulness later.  I think I'll use Kraad alone - maybe this way he'll get the experience he needs to release after Wyvern without more battles.

Kythena, get the Fish Scales as usual - with Dylan and Kraad partnering.

Serdberg, get Celes and the Might Potion for sure.  Debate whether to get Woltar/Alm before I get here.  Also restore the Sword Blessing on the way in.

Wyvern, use Celes and make sure Kraad's also in the fight.  Release him after this battle with either the Striking Sword or no weapon at all - do I really NEED that 1 Fencer's Familiarity?  (I can use the Striking Sword as a backup weapon in a Chapter 4 fight if I must - Walther and Gyne were huge weapon-break culprits.)

Deal with stuff in Coriander and Villnore NOW rather than after Ancient Forest.

Ancient Forest, make sure to get a Poison Seed before Wyvern.  Also get the archer on the way in.

Griffon, use Dylan and attack from behind with the Kraadicator for a DA.  Not only does this help our crystal requirement, it nets us a Charge Break.  I may consider holding on to the Double-check rather than using it here.

Audoula, skip Khanon and Phyress.  Also push the block to the right as before - by doing this and switching the water, I can place Chasm Wrath without changing my route at all.

Kraken, here I make a decision.  Do I go for a faster kill now, or do I save a Might Potion for Hydra?  Regardless, this fight is all Dylan, and I'm counting on needing that Charge Break I got from Griffon.

Kalstad, make sure to buy a Duel Helm - it gives our head rune for Psychosoma.  Also make sure to get a Red Cherry - that's our Activation Rune for both Psychosoma and Magician Slayer.

Sahma Desert, get Zunde regardless of how bad our swaps are.

Surt's Volcano Caverns, I need to knock loose a Core Ruby, as that provides our last rune for Psychosoma.  Before Evolver, equip Zunde to learn Fists of Iron, and equip Alicia to learn Psychosoma, Mental Boost, and Magician Slayer.  Also make a party of Zunde/Alicia/Mithra.

Evolver, use the Might Potion during the second fight and leave Alicia and Mithra as decoys for Evolver's attacks.  I may use the Double-check during the first fight of this rather than way back against Griffon - if I do, I may stick Celes in the party as well.  We'll see how many einherjar we can clear in a single bout.

Crawsus should be gone through just like last run.

For Hydra, if I saved my Might Potion, I use it here, plain and simple.

In Dragonscrypt, I get the Double-check here and skip the Magic Bangle.  I also need to knock loose a Swordfish Snout here - it's a Red Slashing Rune, so I can get Zunde to start learning Magician Slayer.  I also set Alicia up to learn Fists of Iron.  Once Alicia's learned that she can go to the back ranks for the rest of the run - Valkyrie will be set skill-wise.

For Palace of the Venerated Dragon, I need to restore Wrath of Forcefulness at some point.  I think I'll wait to pick up Sword Blessing until right before Dragon Zombie, so I can get the other needed sealstones.  I need to knock loose a Bloody Patch from one of the Muscular Stalkers here.

Dragon Zombie should be pathetic at this point - the difficulty is knocking loose a Dragon Rib.

For Chapter 4, I plan on having Sha-Kon/Chrystie in during the Ull fight and Woltar/Alm, if I got them, in for the Walther/Gyne fight.  I'll use my Double-check against Hrist/Arngrim, so Zunde can power up some more.  Between the Palace and this, I need 3 Expert's Experiences for the endgame, but may use the others on Zunde for a few more HP/ATK.

After that, the run basically degenerates into a smashfest with Sword Blessing and Wrath of Forcefulness owning every boss in sight.

My biggest remaining question marks center around Woltar/Alm (who I'd get to release with the Ether Scepter) and the Kraken/Hydra issue (who to use a Might Potion against).

getter77

2007-05-14 01:50:21 pm

100% runs=great to watch

All I can do is offer encouragement, especially since your grasp of the game seems to be tightening with every massive post that you wrangle with.

Hopefully the skilled folk happen by sooner than later once again to actually HELP though.

tri-Ace Fanboy

2007-05-14 08:05:49 pm

Direct Assault!

Sorry, not much time for posting lately.

Are you getting only Wrath of Forcefulness? What about critical skills? Getting those might help with the DAs needed for Wrath of Forcefulness anyway, and they help on the Hydra/Kraken situation (Descaling Might for Dylan against the Hydra).

Double-check on the Griffon raises Zunde's initial level. You'll want him to be able to have Giant Killer + Fists of Iron against Evolver.

If you're using Wrath of Forcefulness, it might be better to ignore MAG for Valkyrie and just boost her ATK. Her MAG just wouldn't make a difference with it.

I'll try to make a more detailed post later today.

AquaTiger

2007-05-15 02:05:53 am

Never give up!

The only critical skill I'm getting for sure is Magician Slayer, simply due to the fact that so many bosses later on have the Magic type. I personally do not think it is a good idea to get skills that will only be used once or twice - hence, why I never bothered to investigate Descaling Might, which I believe would be defunct by the end of Chapter 3. Also, as far as Descaling Might, getting that Blue Lightning rune means I'd need to break a Thunder Hawk. I haven't had much luck with breaking those.

As far as Wrath of Forcefulness, MAG, and Valkyrie.... if you applied Psychosoma to the mix, is it (ATK * bonuses) + MAG, or (ATK + MAG) * bonuses? If it's the former, fine, I'll drop MAG altogether (but the question then becomes what to do with the releases from Mithra - I'd also drop Psychosoma and Mental Boost altogether in this scenario, and save a little time in Kythena Plains and Surt's Volcano Caverns). If it's the latter, I adamantly stay with using MAG (and Psychosoma and Mental Boost).

And for the Double-check, when I used Zunde in the test run, he did not have level 10 before Evolver anyway, partly due to bad planning as far as when to get the Core Ruby (he might have gained an extra level that way), and I did quite fine with just Giant Killer. I'm not entirely sure Fists of Iron would have saved enough time to make a difference.

The only critical skill I'm getting for sure is Magician Slayer, simply due to the fact that so many bosses later on have the Magic type.  I personally do not think it is a good idea to get skills that will only be used once or twice - hence, why I never bothered to investigate Descaling Might, which I believe would be defunct by the end of Chapter 3.  Also, as far as Descaling Might, getting that Blue Lightning rune means I'd need to break a Thunder Hawk.  I haven't had much luck with breaking those.

As far as Wrath of Forcefulness, MAG, and Valkyrie.... if you applied Psychosoma to the mix, is it (ATK * bonuses) + MAG, or (ATK + MAG) * bonuses?  If it's the former, fine, I'll drop MAG altogether (but the question then becomes what to do with the releases from Mithra - I'd also drop Psychosoma and Mental Boost altogether in this scenario, and save a little time in Kythena Plains and Surt's Volcano Caverns).  If it's the latter, I adamantly stay with using MAG (and Psychosoma and Mental Boost).

And for the Double-check, when I used Zunde in the test run, he did not have level 10 before Evolver anyway, partly due to bad planning as far as when to get the Core Ruby (he might have gained an extra level that way), and I did quite fine with just Giant Killer.  I'm not entirely sure Fists of Iron would have saved enough time to make a difference.

Enhasa

Edit history:

Enhasa: 2007-05-15 11:12:40 am

2007-05-15 11:12:25 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

This is a wall of text, so I hope I didn't miss anything.

Quote:

For Forest of Spirits, since I'm SO overpowered thanks to the Wrath of Forcefulness, I actually think it may be faster for me to fight the three plant minibosses rather than try to evade them. At the least, the first one is slower to dodge, from my experience, than to fight with a setup like mine. The second and third may be faster to dodge if they cooperate.

If you get into the fight, what about running away? And if you do the platforming well (the biggest eyesore with the current run anyway), it doesn't take much time to skip the first plant in my experience.

Quote:

I think my practice run wound up about 7 or 8 minutes ahead of Alkaiser's run. Funny how much time I made up AFTER Palace of the Venerated Dragon.

This actually increases my respect for Alkaiser's run by a lot.

Your route looks good, but I'll think about it more later, maybe.

Temple on the Lake: I just wanted to say that if you push the block left, you don't have to hit the switch later that you do if you push it right. You should time yourself both ways though, but I remember being pretty sure that left is better.

Quote:

As far as Wrath of Forcefulness, MAG, and Valkyrie.... if you applied Psychosoma to the mix, is it (ATK * bonuses) + MAG, or (ATK + MAG) * bonuses? If it's the former, fine, I'll drop MAG altogether (but the question then becomes what to do with the releases from Mithra - I'd also drop Psychosoma and Mental Boost altogether in this scenario, and save a little time in Kythena Plains and Surt's Volcano Caverns). If it's the latter, I adamantly stay with using MAG (and Psychosoma and Mental Boost).

IIRC the bonuses go at the end.

This is a wall of text, so I hope I didn't miss anything.

[quote]For Forest of Spirits, since I'm SO overpowered thanks to the Wrath of Forcefulness, I actually think it may be faster for me to fight the three plant minibosses rather than try to evade them.  At the least, the first one is slower to dodge, from my experience, than to fight with a setup like mine.  The second and third may be faster to dodge if they cooperate.[/quote]
If you get into the fight, what about running away? And if you do the platforming well (the biggest eyesore with the current run anyway), it doesn't take much time to skip the first plant in my experience.

[quote]I think my practice run wound up about 7 or 8 minutes ahead of Alkaiser's run.  Funny how much time I made up AFTER Palace of the Venerated Dragon.[/quote]
This actually increases my respect for Alkaiser's run by a lot.

Your route looks good, but I'll think about it more later, maybe.

Temple on the Lake: I just wanted to say that if you push the block left, you don't have to hit the switch later that you do if you push it right. You should time yourself both ways though, but I remember being pretty sure that left is better.

[quote]As far as Wrath of Forcefulness, MAG, and Valkyrie.... if you applied Psychosoma to the mix, is it (ATK * bonuses) + MAG, or (ATK + MAG) * bonuses?  If it's the former, fine, I'll drop MAG altogether (but the question then becomes what to do with the releases from Mithra - I'd also drop Psychosoma and Mental Boost altogether in this scenario, and save a little time in Kythena Plains and Surt's Volcano Caverns).  If it's the latter, I adamantly stay with using MAG (and Psychosoma and Mental Boost).[/quote]
IIRC the bonuses go at the end.

tri-Ace Fanboy

2007-05-15 02:04:34 pm

Direct Assault!

Psychosoma is actually a formula change, not a stat boost. Instead of doing (ATK-RDM) for non-elemental attacks it does (ATK+MAG-RDM). All stats have their bonuses calculated separately as usual.

About Descaling Might, it's just one fight to get the rune. That's less one fight in Lost Forest. Even if it takes some extra seconds, your rewards are much greater (experience, skill progress for Dylan with Beast Bludgeon for the Griffon).

AquaTiger

2007-05-15 05:14:26 pm

Never give up!

Hmmm.....

I originally wasn't planning on needing a second test run, but with this information, I might as well do a second test run and go as far as Dragonscrypt. I've got the rest after that pretty well cemented.

Enhasa: With Audoula, I actually hit the switch on the way in. By doing this, I believe you avoid a short yet unskippable cutscene (of the lower canal draining) that would have occurred if you'd switched it later. I'll have a look at pushing left, but here's the thing - if you clog the left side and don't switch, you have to approach the Chasm Wrath dais from the left.

.....you know what? Before I back myself into a corner here, I'll just say "We'll see if that's faster".

As far as Forest of Spirits, from what I've seen fighting that battle, running from that battle would probably take just as much time, if not more. I admit it'd probably only take more if my escape attempt failed at least once. Let me give you an idea how fast entering that battle and either winning it or escaping on the first try would be. To avoid it fast enough to be quicker than entering the battle at all, the enemy I can crystallize needs to be in a position to my right side as I enter that room - which has only happened for me maybe once every other blue moon. If you still think I'm wrong on that, a visual demonstration's going to be needed to convince me otherwise.

And yes, I too have a healthy respect for Alkaiser's run. Think what you will, but I actually think his skill with photon transfers is better on the average (we're not going to count that Audoula incident in other words) than mine.

tri-Ace Fanboy: If that's the case, I think I'll indeed drop Psychosoma and Mental Boost altogether, based on the fact that there are not enough MAG bonuses out there to help me. I would need gobs of MAG to have Psychosoma do much. And I'll almost certainly skip Woltar/Alm too.

Here's what I think I'll do:
-Fight the same amount that I had planned in Lost Forest.
-Skip the Kythena fight altogether.
-Move the fight that would have been in Kythena to Serdberg.
-Avoid buying the Duel Helm in Kalstad (it was literally there ONLY for Psychosoma).
-Set Zunde up for Descaling Might and Fists of Iron at the start of Surt's Volcano Caverns.
-If I can learn those skills in one fight before Evolver, fight once in there before Evolver to do so. This I'm going to test.

If I CAN'T learn the skills in just one fight by any means, but I can learn them within three, then I'll take fights from Lost Forest and put them in Surt's Volcano Caverns. If it's going to take more than three, I'll add the fight in Volcano Caverns on to Lost Forest.

Hmmm.....

I originally wasn't planning on needing a second test run, but with this information, I might as well do a second test run and go as far as Dragonscrypt.  I've got the rest after that pretty well cemented.

Enhasa: With Audoula, I actually hit the switch on the way in.  By doing this, I believe you avoid a short yet unskippable cutscene (of the lower canal draining) that would have occurred if you'd switched it later.  I'll have a look at pushing left, but here's the thing - if you clog the left side and don't switch, you have to approach the Chasm Wrath dais from the left.

.....you know what?  Before I back myself into a corner here, I'll just say "We'll see if that's faster".

As far as Forest of Spirits, from what I've seen fighting that battle, running from that battle would probably take just as much time, if not more.  I admit it'd probably only take more if my escape attempt failed at least once.  Let me give you an idea how fast entering that battle and either winning it or escaping on the first try would be.  To avoid it fast enough to be quicker than entering the battle at all, the enemy I can crystallize needs to be in a position to my right side as I enter that room - which has only happened for me maybe once every other blue moon.  If you still think I'm wrong on that, a visual demonstration's going to be needed to convince me otherwise.

And yes, I too have a healthy respect for Alkaiser's run.  Think what you will, but I actually think his skill with photon transfers is better on the average (we're not going to count that Audoula incident in other words) than mine.

tri-Ace Fanboy: If that's the case, I think I'll indeed drop Psychosoma and Mental Boost altogether, based on the fact that there are not enough MAG bonuses out there to help me.  I would need gobs of MAG to have Psychosoma do much.  And I'll almost certainly skip Woltar/Alm too.

Here's what I think I'll do:
-Fight the same amount that I had planned in Lost Forest.
-Skip the Kythena fight altogether.
-Move the fight that would have been in Kythena to Serdberg.
-Avoid buying the Duel Helm in Kalstad (it was literally there ONLY for Psychosoma).
-Set Zunde up for Descaling Might and Fists of Iron at the start of Surt's Volcano Caverns.
-If I can learn those skills in one fight before Evolver, fight once in there before Evolver to do so.  This I'm going to test.

If I CAN'T learn the skills in just one fight by any means, but I can learn them within three, then I'll take fights from Lost Forest and put them in Surt's Volcano Caverns.  If it's going to take more than three, I'll add the fight in Volcano Caverns on to Lost Forest.

Enhasa

2007-05-15 08:42:41 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Quote:

With Audoula, I actually hit the switch on the way in. By doing this, I believe you avoid a short yet unskippable cutscene (of the lower canal draining) that would have occurred if you'd switched it later. I'll have a look at pushing left, but here's the thing - if you clog the left side and don't switch, you have to approach the Chasm Wrath dais from the left.

I was comparing pushing the block left with what Alkaiser did. Hitting the switch on the way in is a better choice than on the way to the boss like he did. I love how we're both covering our asses because we're unsure btw. Wink

Here, I took a screenshot from Alkaiser's run.

By pushing left, the only time you waste is the time it takes to get to the dais from the left (all visible in the mini map), and instead of jumping through water there like if you push right, the water isn't there. Also, if you want to set the Ice Blessing down, you have to climb up to the shell on the second screen anyway if you push right. If you're not getting Phyress or Khanon, you don't even have to go down to the lower level to the right of the dais. Even without having to watch the draining cutscene, I think it would take longer to go hit the switch.

Quote:

As far as Forest of Spirits, from what I've seen fighting that battle, running from that battle would probably take just as much time, if not more. I admit it'd probably only take more if my escape attempt failed at least once.

The reason why I said that is because you start near the exit on that battlefield, and you don't start right next to the enemies.

Now for another screenshot of the room in question as soon as you enter.

If you take a look at this (enemy on the left), I think it would be faster to avoid the fight and skip all the entering fight/exiting fight/getting experience junk that goes along with it as well. Alkaiser says this as well in his comments, and he ran away instead of killing them. (and you said running on first try is roughly equal to killing for you) Then again, if you aren't comfortable with this in the middle of a segment, do what you like if the difference is not all that great.

Hey and I love Alkaiser, but he himself said that his platforming was sloppy and he wanted to complete the whole thing in a couple days. But yes, if you look at most vids on youtube, they are far worse than anything Alkaiser does (which they ought to be, given that he is running). But if you look at these three vids, you can see that there is quite a lot of room for improvement. Granted, I'm not expecting anyone who runs this to be on that level, but what's wrong with setting a high ideal? Wink

Quote:

tri-Ace Fanboy: If that's the case, I think I'll indeed drop Psychosoma and Mental Boost altogether, based on the fact that there are not enough MAG bonuses out there to help me. I would need gobs of MAG to have Psychosoma do much. And I'll almost certainly skip Woltar/Alm too.

If tri-Ace Fanboy says it's better to skip, it probably is, for the reasons that you just mentioned. But FWIW, his answer was the latter and not the former, from your last post.

I will say with all the work that you are putting into this, this is gonna be an awesome run when you are done. Smiley

[quote]With Audoula, I actually hit the switch on the way in.  By doing this, I believe you avoid a short yet unskippable cutscene (of the lower canal draining) that would have occurred if you'd switched it later.  I'll have a look at pushing left, but here's the thing - if you clog the left side and don't switch, you have to approach the Chasm Wrath dais from the left.[/quote]
I was comparing pushing the block left with what Alkaiser did. Hitting the switch on the way in is a better choice than on the way to the boss like he did. I love how we're both covering our asses because we're unsure btw. ;)

Here, I took a screenshot from Alkaiser's run.

[img]http://www.cs.clemson.edu/~kjuang/files/audoula.jpg[/img]

By pushing left, the only time you waste is the time it takes to get to the dais from the left (all visible in the mini map), and instead of jumping through water there like if you push right, the water isn't there. Also, if you want to set the Ice Blessing down, you have to climb up to the shell on the second screen anyway if you push right. If you're not getting Phyress or Khanon, you don't even have to go down to the lower level to the right of the dais. Even without having to watch the draining cutscene, I think it would take longer to go hit the switch.

[quote]As far as Forest of Spirits, from what I've seen fighting that battle, running from that battle would probably take just as much time, if not more.  I admit it'd probably only take more if my escape attempt failed at least once.[/quote]
The reason why I said that is because you start near the exit on that battlefield, and you don't start right next to the enemies.

Now for another screenshot of the room in question as soon as you enter.

[img]http://www.cs.clemson.edu/~kjuang/files/forest.jpg[/img]

If you take a look at this (enemy on the left), I think it would be faster to avoid the fight and skip all the entering fight/exiting fight/getting experience junk that goes along with it as well. Alkaiser says this as well in his comments, and he ran away instead of killing them. (and you said running on first try is roughly equal to killing for you) Then again, if you aren't comfortable with this in the middle of a segment, do what you like if the difference is not all that great.

Hey and I love Alkaiser, but he himself said that his platforming was sloppy and he wanted to complete the whole thing in a couple days. But yes, if you look at most vids on youtube, they are far worse than anything Alkaiser does (which they ought to be, given that he is running). But if you look at [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW9EkUxzywA]these[/url] [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2noTeDGYbc]three[/url] [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kvWJYPtMXc]vids[/url], you can see that there is quite a lot of room for improvement. Granted, I'm not expecting anyone who runs this to be on that level, but what's wrong with setting a high ideal? ;)

[quote]tri-Ace Fanboy: If that's the case, I think I'll indeed drop Psychosoma and Mental Boost altogether, based on the fact that there are not enough MAG bonuses out there to help me.  I would need gobs of MAG to have Psychosoma do much.  And I'll almost certainly skip Woltar/Alm too.[/quote]
If tri-Ace Fanboy says it's better to skip, it probably is, for the reasons that you just mentioned. But FWIW, his answer was the latter and not the former, from your last post.

I will say with all the work that you are putting into this, this is gonna be an awesome run when you are done. :)

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-05-16 01:36:06 am

2007-05-16 01:20:31 am

Never give up!

I'll investigate the Audoula thing in the second test run, but worrying about the Forest of Spirits thing isn't going to occur until I get there in the real run.

In the meantime, I tried to record another playthrough of the final two battles from my test run file to give an idea of just how broken the setup was (it didn't work though because I did something wrong).... it turned out to be about 4 minutes for both battles combined. I literally say the setup is broken though - on the final hit against Anarchic Entity, I broke Rangrid's Blade (it was either an Imperious Act or Cutting Edge - I think the former) and I think it STILL did over 18000 damage (if a weapon breaks, the damage for that hit is calculated without the weapon).

Also, is it just me or does the last hit of Spiral Pierce ignore RDM? I swear that that hit alone did just as much damage as the Mirage Pierce I hit Anarchic Entity with first. I'll have to look over the video again.

And my bigger gripe with Alkaiser's run is that he seems way too timid around bosses. In a SEGMENTED run. I don't know about you, but I prefer to have some CONFIDENCE in the domination.

(Yes, I had to run this related-to-VP1-music joke once. I'll probably be putting that joke in my run comments.)

I'll investigate the Audoula thing in the second test run, but worrying about the Forest of Spirits thing isn't going to occur until I get there in the real run.

In the meantime, I tried to record another playthrough of the final two battles from my test run file to give an idea of just how broken the setup was (it didn't work though because I did something wrong)....  it turned out to be about 4 minutes for both battles combined.  I literally say the setup is broken though - on the final hit against Anarchic Entity, I broke Rangrid's Blade (it was either an Imperious Act or Cutting Edge - I think the former) and I think it STILL did over 18000 damage (if a weapon breaks, the damage for that hit is calculated without the weapon).

Also, is it just me or does the last hit of Spiral Pierce ignore RDM?  I swear that that hit alone did just as much damage as the Mirage Pierce I hit Anarchic Entity with first.  I'll have to look over the video again.

And my bigger gripe with Alkaiser's run is that he seems way too timid around bosses.  In a SEGMENTED run.  I don't know about you, but I prefer to have some CONFIDENCE in the domination.

(Yes, I had to run this related-to-VP1-music joke once.  I'll probably be putting that joke in my run comments.)

Enhasa

2007-05-16 01:41:19 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Quote:

In the meantime, I actually recorded another playthrough of the final two battles from my test run file to give an idea of just how broken the setup was.... it turned out to be about 4 minutes for both battles combined. I literally say the setup is broken though - on the final hit against Anarchic Entity, I broke Rangrid's Blade (it was either an Imperious Act or Cutting Edge - I think the former) and I think it STILL did over 18000 damage (if a weapon breaks, the damage for that hit is calculated without the weapon).

Nice, I'd sure like to see this. And it's in keeping with some sort of VP2 running tradition.

Quote:

Also, is it just me or does the last hit of Spiral Pierce ignore RDM? I swear that that hit alone did just as much damage as the Mirage Pierce I hit Anarchic Entity with first. I'll have to look over the video again.

Well I haven't tested, so don't count this for anything, but my first time through the game (before I looked at any FAQs), I wondered if every move with Pierce in the name did that. Because generally in RPGs, piercing means that defense is ignored.

Quote:

And my bigger gripe with Alkaiser's run is that he seems way too timid around bosses. In a SEGMENTED run. I don't know about you, but I prefer to have some CONFIDENCE in the domination.

Hey, I laughed.

[quote]In the meantime, I actually recorded another playthrough of the final two battles from my test run file to give an idea of just how broken the setup was....  it turned out to be about 4 minutes for both battles combined.  I literally say the setup is broken though - on the final hit against Anarchic Entity, I broke Rangrid's Blade (it was either an Imperious Act or Cutting Edge - I think the former) and I think it STILL did over 18000 damage (if a weapon breaks, the damage for that hit is calculated without the weapon).[/quote]
Nice, I'd sure like to see this. And it's in keeping with some sort of VP2 running tradition.

[quote]Also, is it just me or does the last hit of Spiral Pierce ignore RDM?  I swear that that hit alone did just as much damage as the Mirage Pierce I hit Anarchic Entity with first.  I'll have to look over the video again.[/quote]
Well I haven't tested, so don't count this for anything, but my first time through the game (before I looked at any FAQs), I wondered if every move with Pierce in the name did that. Because generally in RPGs, piercing means that defense is ignored.

[quote]And my bigger gripe with Alkaiser's run is that he seems way too timid around bosses.  In a SEGMENTED run.  I don't know about you, but I prefer to have some CONFIDENCE in the domination.[/quote]
Hey, I laughed.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-05-16 03:21:41 am

2007-05-16 03:16:01 am

Never give up!

I had to redo the video because it didn't capture right the first time, and Rangrid's Blade broke earlier than I wanted in the redo, but I have the video of this posted:

I probably could have put more detail into my initial encoding (I encoded it initially as medium quality XVid), but this is the first time I've ever uploaded to YouTube and I had no idea their version of it would degrade the encoding so much. Still, it does catch the important stuff in my strategy (such as putting Mirage Pierce first).

tri-Ace Fanboy

2007-05-16 11:06:18 am

Direct Assault!

Wow, I didn't expect it to be that fast. I had my doubts about Wrath of Forcefulness (because of the random battles needed for the crystals), but that video changes everything.

Just a few things. Remove Imperious Act and leave only Mirage Pierce - Spiral Pierce setup. This will be faster if the weapon doesn't break, as Imperious Act would deal much less damage compared to those two (0.6 multiplier). You could also ignore Warrior's Wits, Sorcerer's Savvy and Thief's Thoughts... maybe the Golden Egg too.

For the crystal battle, use a Charge Break after stunning Lezard once, then just attack the crystal until it breaks in one round.

I don't know about Spiral Pierce ignoring RDM. It's hard to say from the video, but I think it doesn't.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-05-17 03:12:58 am

2007-05-17 02:26:05 am

Never give up!

Alright, I tried to start the next test run, but I'm getting frustrated.

In all previous runs, I've gotten Mithra at level 2 and then Kraad at level 2. However, for the life of me I can't seem to do either anymore.

Normally this wouldn't be an issue, but it is flat-out impossible, from all my trying, for Dylan and Kraad to get a DA on Ballistic Rhino unless Kraad's at level 2. And it will also be impossible to get a DA on Primorial Ooze with those low levels.

Either I'll have to tough it out, miss both DAs (I'll go for real-time speed in both cases - from my experience, the game timer doesn't stop just because the battle timer does), and fight two more times in Lost Forest (there's a 15-20 second difference, as far as my best guess goes, between real-time fast victory and DA victory in Ballistic Rhino's case - certainly enough for one fight in Lost Forest), or I'll have to go crazy trying to get this right. Frankly, my patience for the latter option is wearing thin. If I don't get a result soon, I'm going with the former regardless of what other people say.

Alright, I tried to start the next test run, but I'm getting frustrated.

In all previous runs, I've gotten Mithra at level 2 and then Kraad at level 2.  However, for the life of me I can't seem to do either anymore.

Normally this wouldn't be an issue, but it is flat-out impossible, from all my trying, for Dylan and Kraad to get a DA on Ballistic Rhino unless Kraad's at level 2.  And it will also be impossible to get a DA on Primorial Ooze with those low levels.

Either I'll have to tough it out, miss both DAs (I'll go for real-time speed in both cases - from my experience, the game timer doesn't stop just because the battle timer does), and fight two more times in Lost Forest (there's a 15-20 second difference, as far as my best guess goes, between real-time fast victory and DA victory in Ballistic Rhino's case - certainly enough for one fight in Lost Forest), or I'll have to go crazy trying to get this right.  Frankly, my patience for the latter option is wearing thin.  If I don't get a result soon, I'm going with the former regardless of what other people say.

tri-Ace Fanboy

2007-05-17 11:29:22 pm

Direct Assault!

It's possible, but you can't hit the Rhino's armor at all. For the Ooze you could buy the Two Handed Sword in Dipan. It's a bigger ATK boost than what you'd get from one level.

I don't think getting Kraad at level 2 is a good idea, because then you need 9000 extra experience to release him... that's a lot. Who knows, maybe joining at level 1 he can get to level 6 before the Wyvern, so you can use just Dylan and Celes against it, boosting the average level further and getting a Level 10 Zunde later.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-05-18 05:06:08 am

2007-05-18 12:51:33 am

Never give up!

And in order for me to not hit Ballistic Rhino's armor at all, I would require the Thunder Gem to break the top piece. Which has never happened in the 50+ times I've fought this boss, and I see no reason for it to happen when I want it to.

Unless you have an exact, move-for-move strategy I can use to do this (even your previous one, mentioned after I finally got a DA on Ballistic Rhino the first time ever, doesn't work), I'm just going to have to make the DA up later. Never mind, I finally got a DA this way. Turns out adding Rufus and timing Absolute Wave (placed first in his move set) to hit right before Dylan's and Kraad's hits connected made enough difference to cause a DA (I may have to reread either your current FAQ's section on combat, or your new notes, to figure out why). I'd show a video of this, but I already saved past Ballistic Rhino because I did not want to go through it again.

The ordeal hurts Kraad's EXP a little, but I'm pretty sure it's not enough to drastically change my strategy.

It turns out those Two-Handed Swords are just enough to make the difference against Primorial Ooze, as well. Thanks for bailing me out of what started as a tight jam here.

....and I can't seem to get a Thunderbreath Core no matter what. Any advice there? I tried going to the left side of the Thunder Hawk (their left), but for some reason, even there my attacks seem to target the right side (I'm interpreting this based on the fact that when breaking from the left side, I STILL got Great Eagle Hearts). Nevermind this, either - I finally got the right break by using Lezard's Fire Storm and timing it so I could really slam down with Kraad's Sweep Dive.

....that does it, I'm whining here whenever I can't get something right. It's worked so far.

Unfortunately, Kraad isn't getting to release level before Wyvern unless I move more fights into Serdberg. On the other hand, he did have enough experience to release after Wyvern even though Dylan was in the party for that specific fight.

....Enhasa, I'll admit it, you were right on Audoula. Here's an even better part - I have no need to put Ice Blessing in the shell. As soon as I stash Chasm Wrath, I'm set.

This time I'm ALREADY ahead of Alkaiser's run - by a little less than a minute at Kraken.

It turns out Zunde can LEARN all the skills he needs in two battles in Surt's Volcano Caverns. Unfortunately for me, he's unable to be found at level 10 in my case - my average level is just not high enough, and as far as I can tell it never WOULD be high enough. I still plan on moving two battles here - maybe I can get all noncritical einherjar (Sha-Kon, Mithra, and at this point Celes) to release level after Evolver. That way I won't have to have anyone else impede on Zunde gaining levels.

And in order for me to not hit Ballistic Rhino's armor at all, I would require the Thunder Gem to break the top piece.  Which has never happened in the 50+ times I've fought this boss, and I see no reason for it to happen when I want it to.

[s]Unless you have an exact, move-for-move strategy I can use to do this (even your previous one, mentioned after I finally got a DA on Ballistic Rhino the first time ever, doesn't work), I'm just going to have to make the DA up later.[/s] Never mind, I finally got a DA this way.  Turns out adding Rufus and timing Absolute Wave (placed first in his move set) to hit right before Dylan's and Kraad's hits connected made enough difference to cause a DA (I may have to reread either your current FAQ's section on combat, or your new notes, to figure out why).  I'd show a video of this, but I already saved past Ballistic Rhino because I did not want to go through it again.

The ordeal hurts Kraad's EXP a little, but I'm pretty sure it's not enough to drastically change my strategy.

It turns out those Two-Handed Swords are just enough to make the difference against Primorial Ooze, as well.  Thanks for bailing me out of what started as a tight jam here.

[s]....and I can't seem to get a Thunderbreath Core no matter what.  Any advice there?  I tried going to the left side of the Thunder Hawk (their left), but for some reason, even there my attacks seem to target the right side (I'm interpreting this based on the fact that when breaking from the left side, I STILL got Great Eagle Hearts).[/s]  Nevermind this, either - I finally got the right break by using Lezard's Fire Storm and timing it so I could really slam down with Kraad's Sweep Dive.

....that does it, I'm whining here whenever I can't get something right.  It's worked so far.

Unfortunately, Kraad isn't getting to release level before Wyvern unless I move more fights into Serdberg.  On the other hand, he did have enough experience to release after Wyvern even though Dylan was in the party for that specific fight.

....Enhasa, I'll admit it, you were right on Audoula.  Here's an even better part - I have no need to put Ice Blessing in the shell.  As soon as I stash Chasm Wrath, I'm set.

This time I'm ALREADY ahead of Alkaiser's run - by a little less than a minute at Kraken.

It turns out Zunde can LEARN all the skills he needs in two battles in Surt's Volcano Caverns.  Unfortunately for me, he's unable to be found at level 10 in my case - my average level is just not high enough, and as far as I can tell it never WOULD be high enough.  I still plan on moving two battles here - maybe I can get all noncritical einherjar (Sha-Kon, Mithra, and at this point Celes) to release level after Evolver.  That way I won't have to have anyone else impede on Zunde gaining levels.

Enhasa

2007-05-18 09:39:18 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

That vid was pretty sick, congrats. Wink

tri-Ace Fanboy said everything I was gonna say about it, and more.

For the DAs for Wrath of Forcefulness, I just thought, can you get them all without taking any extra steps? What I mean is, can you just get 10 easy fights while you're on the way somewhere? Like say out of Dipan the first time. Maybe this is what you are already doing.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-05-18 02:56:10 pm

2007-05-18 02:51:17 pm

Never give up!

We'll see. I did that this time for Lost Forest, only backtracking after I'd gotten all the fights normally on the route. Thing is, there's only 6 there. I don't think determining this will warrant a full-fledged test run, though - I think I'll just evaluate what's there and make my decision then.

You also have to take into account the real time it takes for each battle, and this is why I used Lost Forest for a lot of the DA-grinding. I'll investigate Dipan's fights though.

That's what I also did for my two fights in Surt's Volcano Caverns - the first was very early and the second was on that collapsing bridge.

Also, looking at things again, I have determined that getting Descaling Might for use against the Hydra will be pointless and a time-waster. Hydra already has the Giant type in addition to the Scaled type, I can cover Giant fine without fighting at all, and I won't be able to hit level 20 (the lowest level at which I could use both skills) in time for Hydra, probably even if I have Zunde fight the Evolver battles and his other Surt's battles truly solo and save the Double-Check for the second Evolver fight instead of using it on Griffon.

This means that I have no need to go for a Thunderbreath Core. On the OTHER hand, instead of eliminating a battle from Serdberg altogether, I think I'll just break loose a Great Eagle Heart instead. It should help us a bit until at LEAST Valhalla.

...why wouldn't I skip the Serdberg fight altogether? I'll tell you. Without it, Dylan probably would not learn Beast Bludgeon or Fists of Iron in time for Griffon.

We'll see.  I did that this time for Lost Forest, only backtracking after I'd gotten all the fights normally on the route.  Thing is, there's only 6 there.  I don't think determining this will warrant a full-fledged test run, though - I think I'll just evaluate what's there and make my decision then.

You also have to take into account the real time it takes for each battle, and this is why I used Lost Forest for a lot of the DA-grinding.  I'll investigate Dipan's fights though.

That's what I also did for my two fights in Surt's Volcano Caverns - the first was very early and the second was on that collapsing bridge.

Also, looking at things again, I have determined that getting Descaling Might for use against the Hydra will be pointless and a time-waster.  Hydra already has the Giant type in addition to the Scaled type, I can cover Giant fine without fighting at all, and I won't be able to hit level 20 (the lowest level at which I could use both skills) in time for Hydra, probably even if I have Zunde fight the Evolver battles and his other Surt's battles truly solo and save the Double-Check for the second Evolver fight instead of using it on Griffon.

This means that I have no need to go for a Thunderbreath Core.  On the OTHER hand, instead of eliminating a battle from Serdberg altogether, I think I'll just break loose a Great Eagle Heart instead.  It should help us a bit until at LEAST Valhalla.

...why wouldn't I skip the Serdberg fight altogether?  I'll tell you.  Without it, Dylan probably would not learn Beast Bludgeon or Fists of Iron in time for Griffon.

tri-Ace Fanboy

2007-05-18 04:10:02 pm

Direct Assault!

I mentioned Descaling Might for Dylan, or are you soloing it with Zunde? He might help DA the Hydra with the Flamberge + Absolute Strike.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-05-18 05:22:41 pm

2007-05-18 04:43:14 pm

Never give up!

I usually solo it with Zunde. I've tried having Dylan with the Flamberge before and I've never gotten good enough results from it. I don't know whether Descaling Might will really help sufficiently.

I'll look at it again, but I doubt Dylan will help much.

Edit: Okay, I've determined it MIGHT work. I've gotten it to happen once out of 10 tries - WITH Dylan using Flamberge and Absolute Strike.

Really, my chances of getting a DA rest pretty much solely on whether Hydra uses his, for lack of a better term, 'buttslam' attack (I need him to use this precisely once or twice to have any chance of a DA).

Also note that this happened with Sword Blessing in hand (I fought a Troll for Mudbank Law to fill in the third dais). All in all, I doubt that under normal conditions, Dylan would help enough.

Keep in mind we may not even NEED to DA Hydra to meet our crystal requirement. I plan on restoring Wrath of Forcefulness just prior to fighting the Dragon Zombie in Palace of the Venerated Dragon, so I can use the Muscular Stalkers to cover for my last few DAs (and I WILL get DAs there, I know it). And DAing Hydra may not save enough time to make up for a battle in Lost Forest.

I have a couple more questions, one important to an SS and the other to consider in either run type. First, there's one enemy in Palace of the Venerated Dragon where, if you break its head, you can get a Serstine-lock-gun, a bow with SC capability. What are the odds of that enemy dropping that weapon? (I'm planning the SS and Soul Crushes are a HUGE part of it.) Second, in either an SS or a segmented run, would dispatching Arngrim during the Hrist/Arngrim fight and getting his Grand Sting help much (I don't think it's much weaker than Kraadicator, and it has SC capability. In a segmented run, this would be a backup weapon in case a later weapon breaks, but in an SS, this would be a primary weapon against Arectaris)?

I usually solo it with Zunde.  I've tried having Dylan with the Flamberge before and I've never gotten good enough results from it.  I don't know whether Descaling Might will really help sufficiently.

I'll look at it again, but I doubt Dylan will help much.

Edit: Okay, I've determined it MIGHT work.  I've gotten it to happen once out of 10 tries - WITH Dylan using Flamberge and Absolute Strike.

Really, my chances of getting a DA rest pretty much solely on whether Hydra uses his, for lack of a better term, 'buttslam' attack (I need him to use this precisely once or twice to have any chance of a DA).

Also note that this happened with Sword Blessing in hand (I fought a Troll for Mudbank Law to fill in the third dais).  All in all, I doubt that under normal conditions, Dylan would help enough.

Keep in mind we may not even NEED to DA Hydra to meet our crystal requirement.  I plan on restoring Wrath of Forcefulness just prior to fighting the Dragon Zombie in Palace of the Venerated Dragon, so I can use the Muscular Stalkers to cover for my last few DAs (and I WILL get DAs there, I know it).  And DAing Hydra may not save enough time to make up for a battle in Lost Forest.

I have a couple more questions, one important to an SS and the other to consider in either run type.  First, there's one enemy in Palace of the Venerated Dragon where, if you break its head, you can get a Serstine-lock-gun, a bow with SC capability.  What are the odds of that enemy dropping that weapon?  (I'm planning the SS and Soul Crushes are a HUGE part of it.)  Second, in either an SS or a segmented run, would dispatching Arngrim during the Hrist/Arngrim fight and getting his Grand Sting help much (I don't think it's much weaker than Kraadicator, and it has SC capability.  In a segmented run, this would be a backup weapon in case a later weapon breaks, but in an SS, this would be a primary weapon against Arectaris)?

tri-Ace Fanboy

2007-05-18 04:58:11 pm

Direct Assault!

Assuming level 15, Sword Blessing, Fists of Iron, Descaling Might and attacking from behind, he should do over 1000 damage with Absolute Strike.