Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria

2015-03-06 08:16:36 am

Insanity Prelude

I've actually been looking into this recently and I was wondering a few things, which I can't seem to find in the topic. First a bit of an update, since the last several posts discussing the game were about 5 years ago:

1) Current routes I've seen tend to release Mithra after Dipan to get the Holy Water, which can then be used to instant kill Kraken. The problem as noted by Rezard in his notes is that Mithra must be level 1 for this to happen. My question here is:

a) How long/many battles does it take to grind up Mithra to level 7 so you can release him?

b) Is there some way to RNG manipulate the game into always giving you level 1 Mithra. Takeshi (a Japanese runner) actually has several vids of him completing the game in under 2 hours even without Kraad/Zunde and instead focuses on using Alicia lategame. Every run of his I watched has Mithra level 1, but I don't know if he manages to manipulate the game to give him Mithra L1 or just resets until he gets it.

2) Is there an easier way to hit the part for the Black Crystal? This seems to be an important accessory even though the boost doesn't apparently seem to be too large. Everytime I fight the tutorial skelly, he never drops it despite an 80% chance.

3) Should getting Mithra to Level 2 take too long, what is the back up for killing Kraken with just Dylan?

I've actually been looking into this recently and I was wondering a few things, which I can't seem to find in the topic. First a bit of an update, since the last several posts discussing the game were about 5 years ago:

1) Current routes I've seen tend to release Mithra after Dipan to get the Holy Water, which can then be used to instant kill Kraken. The problem as noted by Rezard in his notes is that Mithra must be level 1 for this to happen. My question here is:

a) How long/many battles does it take to grind up Mithra to level 7 so you can release him?

b) Is there some way to RNG manipulate the game into always giving you level 1 Mithra. Takeshi (a Japanese runner) actually has several vids of him completing the game in under 2 hours even without Kraad/Zunde and instead focuses on using Alicia lategame. Every run of his I watched has Mithra level 1, but I don't know if he manages to manipulate the game to give him Mithra L1 or just resets until he gets it.

2) Is there an easier way to hit the part for the Black Crystal? This seems to be an important accessory even though the boost doesn't apparently seem to be too large. Everytime I fight the tutorial skelly, he never drops it despite an 80% chance.

3) Should getting Mithra to Level 2 take too long, what is the back up for killing Kraken with just Dylan?

Tide

2015-03-06 11:13:25 pm

Insanity Prelude

Did some practice tonight with Takeshi's Alicia route. Balistic Rhino/Primordial Ooze took me about two hours to understand what is going on in that fight. Can't wait until I get to evolver >_>. In the meantime, I still suck with photon transfers.

Rezard

Edit history:

Rezard: 2015-03-07 04:17:32 am

Rezard: 2015-03-07 04:11:33 am

2015-03-07 04:04:23 am

Meteor Swarm

I saw this guy in my twitch viewerlist/chat a few times.
- I'm sure the japanese version have a diffrent rng value. Because a sub 1:50 require a perfect rng. When i did my 1:48 segmented run (unreleased) i had to reload more than 100 time for some segement just for the rng (mostly swap and fast item drop).
For mithra its a big waste of time, i think one or two reset is faster than leveling him up in dipan. He clearly reset every time i think.
Black crystal is not that much necessary imho. Not really fan of alicia strat, Maybe you can backup with adonis in the forest. and manage with dylan.

Btw, i ad a year ago a sub 1:55 SS run that i planed to send here. But i died on the vampire lord at the end... maybe i will rerun this game one day.. but now it's still piss me off

Tide

2015-03-07 06:02:07 am

Insanity Prelude

I can't confirm regarding the RNG values, but just watching several of his runs, I do think you're right. At the very least, some of the RN values are likely changed because it appears he gets a few photon transfers consistently in JP where the NA version wouldn't be able to get those. He was streaming on Nico awhile back but my internet crapped out. Otherwise I could've watched what he did exactly to see if he does some resetting/RN manipulating to guarantee things like level 1 Mithra.

As for Mithra, he buys a map a Villnore. I don't know what this is for actually but my initial assumption was to quick travel back to Dipan caverns. I think the idea might have been to level up Mithra at the Ruins then quick travel back to Dipan caverns and release him if he got level 2 Mithra. It's definitely slower no doubt due to the backtracking, but I'm thinking more of a no reset type of run like in a marathon it's worth doing just to avoid having to really fight Kraken with Dylan. I actually can't find any vids of that anymore other than Tri-Ace fan's really old segmented speedrun. One or two resets means probably about 3-4 mins? I will try to find the ghost enemies to get the timing down exactly.

He doesn't pick up the Ram's Horn or Great Eagle Heart. He actually runs Beryl Bracelets for a good portion of the run which can't be boosted. I know the Black Crystal isn't a huge boost but he basically remains poisoned for like the last 75% of the run, which seems weird if it wasn't necessary. Not sure what to replace the Black Crystal with though - Ram's Horn maybe?

The Alicia route is slower than the Zunde route by about 5 minutes comparing his best times together. The extra time is from some of the lengthier combos and sometimes needing Soul Crushes to secure kills to avoid eating a Soul Crush in return. The thing that makes it stand out for me is that in theory, it means every run is completable because Alicia is always available to be put into the party even if she's might be the slowest option. I don't know enough about the game to know how Adonis would work. He uses Alicia basically after Chapter 4 as Dylan leaves and all his other einherijar as fuel for Solitary Struggle. Arngrim to ring out the Homoculi battle. Where would you be able to build Skills for Adonis?

I'm going to keep looking into it. I learned up to Dragonscypt, but I want to play around with the Alicia route up to that point. I am up to Evolver who should be fun. It looks like he lucked out too since he fails to one round Evolver and knocks him down to about 10% and didn't eat a Flame Shower.

I can't confirm regarding the RNG values, but just watching several of his runs, I do think you're right. At the very least, some of the RN values are likely changed because it appears he gets a few photon transfers consistently in JP where the NA version wouldn't be able to get those. He was streaming on Nico awhile back but my internet crapped out. Otherwise I could've watched what he did exactly to see if he does some resetting/RN manipulating to guarantee things like level 1 Mithra.

As for Mithra, he buys a map a Villnore. I don't know what this is for actually but my initial assumption was to quick travel back to Dipan caverns. I think the idea might have been to level up Mithra at the Ruins then quick travel back to Dipan caverns and release him if he got level 2 Mithra. It's definitely slower no doubt due to the backtracking, but I'm thinking more of a no reset type of run like in a marathon it's worth doing just to avoid having to really fight Kraken with Dylan. I actually can't find any vids of that anymore other than Tri-Ace fan's really old segmented speedrun. One or two resets means probably about 3-4 mins? I will try to find the ghost enemies to get the timing down exactly.

He doesn't pick up the Ram's Horn or Great Eagle Heart. He actually runs Beryl Bracelets for a good portion of the run which can't be boosted. I know the Black Crystal isn't a huge boost but he basically remains poisoned for like the last 75% of the run, which seems weird if it wasn't necessary. Not sure what to replace the Black Crystal with though - Ram's Horn maybe?

The Alicia route is slower than the Zunde route by about 5 minutes comparing his best times together. The extra time is from some of the lengthier combos and sometimes needing Soul Crushes to secure kills to avoid eating a Soul Crush in return. The thing that makes it stand out for me is that in theory, it means every run is completable because Alicia is always available to be put into the party even if she's might be the slowest option. I don't know enough about the game to know how Adonis would work. He uses Alicia basically after Chapter 4 as Dylan leaves and all his other einherijar as fuel for Solitary Struggle. Arngrim to ring out the Homoculi battle. Where would you be able to build Skills for Adonis?

I'm going to keep looking into it. I learned up to Dragonscypt, but I want to play around with the Alicia route up to that point. I am up to Evolver who should be fun. It looks like he lucked out too since he fails to one round Evolver and knocks him down to about 10% and didn't eat a Flame Shower.

Rezard

Edit history:

Rezard: 2015-03-07 06:06:24 am

2015-03-07 06:03:56 am

Meteor Swarm

Yes somes swap are impossible, Also notice how fast he skip the first dialogue box (after the first battle) no matter how fast you press X and O , its not possible in the NA revision
Here's how rng works for this game (research hestimation).
in game time / current characters in team / exploration movements / combats movements /menu

I did lots of test with emulator.

Tide

2015-03-07 06:10:35 am

Insanity Prelude

Rezard: The dialogue boxes has a much simpler explanation. I believe the Nico community is much more accepting of turbo, which is probably what he's using for menus and text boxes. This would give him the ability to skip past every text box on the first frame. I wonder if there is some way to do some sort of seed manipulation like in FF6, but if it does exist on NA its a well guarded secret no one has found yet. I'm going to see if I can play a little more tonight.

Rezard

2015-03-07 06:11:23 am

Meteor Swarm

Yes i know about tubo, I even saw a run where some menu was clearly done with a macro controller.

Tide

2015-03-07 06:13:44 am

Insanity Prelude

Yeah, that doesn't surprise me either lol. Menuing with turbo is a thing. I'm not sure if Takeshi does it perse, but my assumption until proven otherwise for Nico runs is that turbo is involved since its more accepted in their community.

Rezard

2015-03-07 06:42:53 am

Meteor Swarm

Quote:

wonder if there is some way to do some sort of seed manipulation like in FF6, but if it does exist on NA its a well guarded secret

Nope , there's no way to manipulate the seed on this game like the first vp unless it's a tas (since is timer+lot of random based) also no ultra secret beyond it

Tide

Edit history:

Tide: 2015-03-09 07:52:26 am

2015-03-09 07:49:33 am

Insanity Prelude

Some updates regarding Alicia route from yesterday:
a) It seems that the Black Crystal IS required. I thought gems did damage primarily based on level. But I'm not sure how his Prism gem deals 6k but mine only does 4.5k other than the fact that he's poisoned. I'm going to review his vid a bit more to see if there's anything else I'm missing.

EDIT: Wait no, he uses Achromatic Law on the Dias. That would explain the huge damage difference. Black Crystal might be important for other things though.

b) In order for Dylan to have Fists of Iron by Evolver, you need to fight two battles at the mountain ruins. This isn't too bad since in the standard route, you need to fight at least one battle anyway to restore Sword Blessing. The result of this means that Wyvern no longer needs to be a DA (thankfully since his AI is troll worthy) which provides some breathing space. I'll collect some data and hash out what happens with L2 Mithra/L2 Roland in this case. Lezard being able to OHKO is quite important.

c) The exact equipment needed before Evolver seems to be the Walloon Sword and the Frostbane. My guess is Alicia needs the Frostbane in order to even break defense on Evolver. Otherwise, Hildr's Sword might be better just a slight SC damage boost.

Some updates regarding Alicia route from yesterday:
a) It seems that the Black Crystal IS required. I thought gems did damage primarily based on level. But I'm not sure how his Prism gem deals 6k but mine only does 4.5k other than the fact that he's poisoned. I'm going to review his vid a bit more to see if there's anything else I'm missing.

EDIT: Wait no, he uses Achromatic Law on the Dias. That would explain the huge damage difference. Black Crystal might be important for other things though.

b) In order for Dylan to have Fists of Iron by Evolver, you need to fight two battles at the mountain ruins. This isn't too bad since in the standard route, you need to fight at least one battle anyway to restore Sword Blessing. The result of this means that Wyvern no longer needs to be a DA (thankfully since his AI is troll worthy) which provides some breathing space. I'll collect some data and hash out what happens with L2 Mithra/L2 Roland in this case. Lezard being able to OHKO is quite important.

c) The exact equipment needed before Evolver seems to be the Walloon Sword and the Frostbane. My guess is Alicia needs the Frostbane in order to even break defense on Evolver. Otherwise, Hildr's Sword might be better just a slight SC damage boost.

Tide

Edit history:

Tide: 2015-03-09 11:09:07 pm

2015-03-09 11:07:56 pm

Insanity Prelude

Alright, I'm up to Dragonscrypt on both routes now. Kraad/Zunde is obviously faster and also easier to learn. I would not recommend learning this route for anyone unless you are interested in not repeatedly resetting or want to learn it for marathon/higher difficulty. Its seriously nutso.

Back on topic, the ideal ending to the Evolver fight is to DA both forms for 2 x Flare Gems. The DA in the second round is extremely hard. I'm almost tempted to say its close to impossible (I got it all of once in my grind tonight against it to learn the specifics of the strategy) when you factor in all the other problems you have to deal with, but obviously this isn't the case.

By having 2x Flare Gems from Evolver, you can DA Hydra with 2x Flare Gems and attacking at 85 AP with Dylan from Hydra's side. There's a blind spot where the only thing you can be hit with is Eternal Pain and he won't use it until about half his HP is gone. The second Flare Gem can be dropped when his HP hits the 'H' marker from Leader HP. This saves a Might Potion which should be helpful against Zombie Dragon is my guess. I know Rezard was mentioning to me the other day that you can use Overdrive with Zunde and attack at 70 AP on Evolver to save a Might Potion similarly. So this is the way you would do it in Alicia route - its just very difficult.

As for Evolver, here are the exact specifics. Do not bother with this unless as mentioned above, you feel like a challenge/learning something new/don't like infinite resets at the start etc:

Dylan must have Fists of Iron learnt, which can be done as mentioned above from 2 fights at Ruins + Kraken. You release Roland like you would release Kraad. If Roland is level 2, you may have to grind to release him. In this case, it would be the same as Mithra I imagine and obviously take longer. But being able to OHKO helps a bit. In Villnore, you must buy 1 x Walloon Sword, then speak to Roland for the 50000 OTH. At Kalstad, buy a Frostbane, Claymore, Longbow from the merchant. In addition buy 3x Beryl Bracelets on top of your regular Rune purchases and 3 Union Plumes. Spend the rest on Warrior's Arcanum.

Once you reach Evolver, make sure Achromatic Law is in the Dias where Fire blessing normally is. You should still be holding Sword Blessing. Put Dylan, Rufus, Alicia and Leone into the party. Revive both Rufus and Alicia, then use the Rose Gem and Fencer's Familiarity on Dylan. Use the Azure Gem on Rufus. Then do the following:

Equipment
- Dylan: Equip Claymore, 3 x Beryl Bracelets and Great Eagle Heart/Black Crystal/Ram's Horn. If you have both GEH and BC then replace one of the bracelets with it. If you have neither, use the Ram's Horn
- Rufus: Equip the Longbow
- Leone: Equip the Walloon Sword
- Alicia: Equip Frostbane, Chainmail and Blue Soul Flame

Skills:
- Dylan: Set Fists of Iron
- Leone: Set Spirit Control

Attacks
- Dylan: Absolute Strike, Heavyweight in that order. NO Exceptions
- Rufus: Thunder Arrow, 3 Way Shot, Absolute Wave
- Leone: Her 7 AP attack, 5 AP attack, and Sneaky Throw in that order
- Alicia: Imperious Act, whatever (Mirage Pierce in theory, but her damage is so low you won't care past Imperious Act).

Evolver 1 -
- Move ahead into item use range and use the Prism Gem (should do 6k damage). Then hop to his side and attack in this order:
Rufus (Thunder Arrow) -> (Alicia Imperious Act) -> Dylan x 2 (Absolute Strike into Heavyweight) -> Leone (use all three attacks) -> Dylan Absolute Strike, then Launch with Heavyweight. You should get the Pyrotechnic Ore from this. If you are worried, you can have Leone attack additionally but I don't recommend this. Make sure you have at least 15 AP remaining.
- The Launch is extremely important. You need the knockback to create enough distance so Evolver cannot counter.
- 15 AP is extremely important to dash escape so you can recharge AP safely from a distance. If you do not have 15 AP, you will probably die.
- You must get DA in one of the Evolver fights. The first one is *much* easier to DA then the second, so do your best to get it here.

Evolver 2 -
- Use Overdrive, wait, Use Might Potion on Dylan, then evade/move away from Evolver until you can access menu again. Dylan equips the Flamberge
- Safely hop behind Evolver 2, and begin attacking as such:
(Alicia Imperious Act) -> Dylan x 3 (Absolute Strike) -> Rufus (Thunder Arrow) -> Alicia (Mirage Pierce) -> Leone (use all three attacks) -> Dylan Absolute Strike. Use Leone's Soul Crush and cancel it into Dylan's Soul Crush.
- You likely won't kill, so move and attack ASAP because he should be close to death. You only need 8 AP for Absolute Strike. If you have more, you can do Imperious Act into Absolute Strike to regenerate some AP.
- Because Evolver 2 always has a chance to use Flame Shower as a counter, I think it might actually be safer to do Imperious Act -> Dylan x2-3 for about 40% damage. Then retreat, build some AP and restart. I don't know if this works for sure but its basically using the same principle as Kraad/Zunde route.
- Note that, to DA, you have to be able to immediately counter after the first string and kill Evolver in one or two attacks. If you retreat and attack again, you likely won't get the DA, in which case you must use a Might Potion on Hydra.

Alright, I'm up to Dragonscrypt on both routes now. Kraad/Zunde is obviously faster and also easier to learn. I would not recommend learning this route for anyone unless you are interested in not repeatedly resetting or want to learn it for marathon/higher difficulty. Its seriously nutso.

Back on topic, the ideal ending to the Evolver fight is to DA both forms for 2 x Flare Gems. The DA in the second round is extremely hard. I'm almost tempted to say its close to impossible (I got it all of once in my grind tonight against it to learn the specifics of the strategy) when you factor in all the other problems you have to deal with, but obviously this isn't the case.

By having 2x Flare Gems from Evolver, you can DA Hydra with 2x Flare Gems and attacking at 85 AP with Dylan from Hydra's side. There's a blind spot where the only thing you can be hit with is Eternal Pain and he won't use it until about half his HP is gone. The second Flare Gem can be dropped when his HP hits the 'H' marker from Leader HP. This saves a Might Potion which should be helpful against Zombie Dragon is my guess. I know Rezard was mentioning to me the other day that you can use Overdrive with Zunde and attack at 70 AP on Evolver to save a Might Potion similarly. So this is the way you would do it in Alicia route - its just very difficult.

As for Evolver, here are the exact specifics. Do not bother with this unless as mentioned above, you feel like a challenge/learning something new/don't like infinite resets at the start etc:

Dylan must have Fists of Iron learnt, which can be done as mentioned above from 2 fights at Ruins + Kraken. You release Roland like you would release Kraad. If Roland is level 2, you may have to grind to release him. In this case, it would be the same as Mithra I imagine and obviously take longer. But being able to OHKO helps a bit. In Villnore, you must buy 1 x Walloon Sword, then speak to Roland for the 50000 OTH. At Kalstad, buy a Frostbane, Claymore, Longbow from the merchant. In addition buy 3x Beryl Bracelets on top of your regular Rune purchases and 3 Union Plumes. Spend the rest on Warrior's Arcanum.

Once you reach Evolver, make sure Achromatic Law is in the Dias where Fire blessing normally is. You should still be holding Sword Blessing. Put Dylan, Rufus, Alicia and Leone into the party. Revive both Rufus and Alicia, then use the Rose Gem and Fencer's Familiarity on Dylan. Use the Azure Gem on Rufus. Then do the following:

Equipment
- Dylan: Equip Claymore, 3 x Beryl Bracelets and Great Eagle Heart/Black Crystal/Ram's Horn. If you have both GEH and BC then replace one of the bracelets with it. If you have neither, use the Ram's Horn
- Rufus: Equip the Longbow
- Leone: Equip the Walloon Sword
- Alicia: Equip Frostbane, Chainmail and Blue Soul Flame

Skills:
- Dylan: Set Fists of Iron
- Leone: Set Spirit Control

Attacks
- Dylan: Absolute Strike, Heavyweight in that order. NO Exceptions
- Rufus: Thunder Arrow, 3 Way Shot, Absolute Wave
- Leone: Her 7 AP attack, 5 AP attack, and Sneaky Throw in that order
- Alicia: Imperious Act, whatever (Mirage Pierce in theory, but her damage is so low you won't care past Imperious Act).

Evolver 1 -
- Move ahead into item use range and use the Prism Gem (should do 6k damage). Then hop to his side and attack in this order:
Rufus (Thunder Arrow) -> (Alicia Imperious Act) -> Dylan x 2 (Absolute Strike into Heavyweight) -> Leone (use all three attacks) -> Dylan Absolute Strike, then Launch with Heavyweight. You should get the Pyrotechnic Ore from this. If you are worried, you can have Leone attack additionally but I don't recommend this. Make sure you have at least 15 AP remaining. 
- The Launch is extremely important. You need the knockback to create enough distance so Evolver cannot counter. 
- 15 AP is extremely important to dash escape so you can recharge AP safely from a distance. If you do not have 15 AP, you will probably die. 
- You must get DA in one of the Evolver fights. The first one is *much* easier to DA then the second, so do your best to get it here.

Evolver 2 -
- Use Overdrive, wait, Use Might Potion on Dylan, then evade/move away from Evolver until you can access menu again. Dylan equips the Flamberge
- Safely hop behind Evolver 2, and begin attacking as such:
(Alicia Imperious Act) -> Dylan x 3 (Absolute Strike) -> Rufus (Thunder Arrow) -> Alicia (Mirage Pierce) -> Leone (use all three attacks) -> Dylan Absolute Strike. Use Leone's Soul Crush and cancel it into Dylan's Soul Crush. 
- You likely won't kill, so move and attack ASAP because he should be close to death. You only need 8 AP for Absolute Strike. If you have more, you can do Imperious Act into Absolute Strike to regenerate some AP. 
- Because Evolver 2 always has a chance to use Flame Shower as a counter, I think it might actually be safer to do Imperious Act ->  Dylan x2-3 for about 40% damage. Then retreat, build some AP and restart. I don't know if this works for sure but its basically using the same principle as Kraad/Zunde route. 
- Note that, to DA, you have to be able to immediately counter after the first string and kill Evolver in one or two attacks. If you retreat and attack again, you likely won't get the DA, in which case you must use a Might Potion on Hydra.

Tide

2015-03-11 07:31:26 am

Insanity Prelude

Done Chapter 4 now. The strats only get more ridiculous, to the point where the most innocent little thing makes a huge difference. I'll post more details when I'm back home.

Tide

2015-03-16 08:50:21 pm

Insanity Prelude

My notes are completed. But I have no idea if you can only one round the final boss with the Bloody Patch or its equivalent. Anyone know if there's any other approaches to the final boss if you're missing that accessory?

Tide

2015-03-18 05:31:18 pm

Insanity Prelude

Nevermind. I reviewed Rezard's 2:02 run so I know a back up if I don't get the Bloody Patch. The Alicia route has two chances of getting that item but the drop rate isn't guaranteed it appears (40% drop? Anyone know the exact numbers?)

Done Chapter 5. Getting trolled by the Gigantic Troll fight. Hate how the summoned skeletons just appear behind you and attack immediately (eat your heart out Fire Emblem). I will probably do more practice/testing tonight to figure out what's going on. The safe way is just to kill both skeletons so this doesn't happen, but that's slower (maybe by like 15 secs?) so I want to avoid that if I can.

Tide

2015-03-19 11:04:51 pm

Insanity Prelude

Alright, I figured out the intricacies. The Gigantic troll fight is really hard because your positioning with Alicia has to be perfect to get her to hit the right part on it. 4 hits to the chest deals fatal damage to its vitals and will incapacitate it instantly. Did the rest of C6 as well yesterday so I know more or less what is going on. What I still want to figure out:

- Amount of time if you get L2 Mithra vs L1 Mithra
- What happens if you get Roland but Zunde (or Kraad but no Zunde - can you jump back into Alicia back up)
- Is there a way to make Dragon Zombie safer
- What's the safe dash range on Walther so Gyne doesn't insta-gib you after Walter casts a spell
- What happens at Evolver when you do not have Great Eagle Heart OR Black Crystal
- What happens at Arectaris if you do not have Great Eagle Heart or Black Crystal
- What happens at Final Lezard fight if you do not have Bloody Patch

Tide

2015-03-23 07:54:16 am

Insanity Prelude

Had a practice session yesterday and lots of discussion with Dak Rey. So some updates and important results of that conversation. Also, some stuff I brainstormed which is potentially safer for Alicia route (maybe)

- Grinding at the ruins if you have level 2 Mithra is about 3-4 minutes slower. Take Lezard, have him blow up some ghosts (2 should be fine), then with 3 Earth gems, kill 3 eagles. Not ideal, but the silver lining is that you a) get a few more Tome of Godspeeds in case of an encounter and b) 3 shots at Great Eagle Heart. This is the slower method for grinding.

The alternative as discussed with Dak Rey is to juggle Ooze for crystals, completely skipping 3 extra encounters. You need a minimum of 2 on Alicia for Dylan to learn FoI and in ideal circumstances, you fight one with Alicia in the party on the standard route to learn FoI by the time Kraken is dead. This saves the time back tracking through the plains and is probably faster compared to the above. In return, you just need to keep Dylan/Alicia alive in a separate battle for FoI.

IMO, I think the standard route is better off using the juggling method but since you need to fight 2 encounters with Dylan, grinding with Lezard might be better in Alicia. You want that Great Eagle Heart if possible because the kill margins with Alicia feel very tight (ugh at those mults).

- Walter/Gyne: It might be safer to Holy Crystal/Gem Gyne first with the Einherijar. This depends on the Silence infliction rate, but it would certainly stop the insta-gib after getting him/her killed. So the strat would look something like: Move close enough to use Holy Crystal/Gem, einherijar as lone team. Dash Dylan/Alicia into corner, dash Einherijar into Walter to get killed. Might Potion Dylan, then attack Walter from the back. Of course, this would require you to get the green fire ruin from the lizards in the Dipan caverns versus at the Palace of the Venedrated Dragon

- Evolver: Two schools of thought. One is through I think Takeshi's 1:53:06 run with Alicia and that is to keep Heavyweight as Dylan's slot 1. Then use the knockback on Heavyweight to push Evolver away with every swing. You lose damage and the one rounding pretty much becomes impossible. BUT, the flip side is that the knockback will put him far enough away that Flame Shower can't reach. Then you can just retreat to build AP and wait for the ideal range and attack again (or sacrifice Rufus and get the rest of team in position)

Second school of thought is do what Kraad/Zunde does. However, order of commands is important. First, swap to Flamberge as this prolongs the duration on the OD and Might Potion. Next, Overdrive, then take off 40% (about the H Letter) with a combo. Leave at least 15 AP to retreat. Pop a Might Potion afterwards on Dylan. Wait for 100 AP and dash and attack him from behind. Full combo into SC for kill. This should avoid any issue of no Crystal or GHE.

- Final: Patch has two approaches. The NA community uses Spiral and Mirage Pierce over Imperious Act. Might Potion Valk, then get the rest of the team killed. Attack at 70 AP, which should kill him.

Takeshi does the following, again, order is important:
Use Overdrive, then move Valk into an advantageous position such that she can reach the back in a single dash. Get rest of the team killed. Might Potion, then dash in and attack with Mirage Pierce -> Cutting Edge -> Imperious Act. If you don't OD, the combo becomes very exact. You'll have 0 AP left at the end of the combo. Using Imperious Act after Edge as long as he is on the ground seems to generate enough Red Gems.

Personally, I think NA strat is a little bit safer. The only thing is that it might rely on release on a HW, which you won't have cause you need the release earlier (again Alicia's mults are weaker so you need the benefit to get through earlier bit. But it might be possible...)

- Patch overall if you get it from the Highlander should be used over Crystal. Buy some Apothecary's Arcanum in exchange for maybe 3-4 Charge Breaks. Takeshi gets 15, but you never use that many so I think they are mainly for safety. The money on Apothecary's and Union Plumes lets you take advantage of the sweet spot with Rib and Patch and should make some of those kills much safer. Unfortunately, you might not be able to get the patch before Heimdall, which is the one boss you really want it for. 2 chances at the Muscular Stalker but you need both Might Potions for the Chapter 4 boss gauntlet it seems.

Had a practice session yesterday and lots of discussion with Dak Rey. So some updates and important results of that conversation. Also, some stuff I brainstormed which is potentially safer for Alicia route (maybe)

- Grinding at the ruins if you have level 2 Mithra is about 3-4 minutes slower. Take Lezard, have him blow up some ghosts (2 should be fine), then with 3 Earth gems, kill 3 eagles. Not ideal, but the silver lining is that you a) get a few more Tome of Godspeeds in case of an encounter and b) 3 shots at Great Eagle Heart. This is the slower method for grinding.

The alternative as discussed with Dak Rey is to juggle Ooze for crystals, completely skipping 3 extra encounters. You need a minimum of 2 on Alicia for Dylan to learn FoI and in ideal circumstances, you fight one with Alicia in the party on the standard route to learn FoI by the time Kraken is dead. This saves the time back tracking through the plains and is probably faster compared to the above. In return, you just need to keep Dylan/Alicia alive in a separate battle for FoI.

IMO, I think the standard route is better off using the juggling method but since you need to fight 2 encounters with Dylan, grinding with Lezard might be better in Alicia. You want that Great Eagle Heart if possible because the kill margins with Alicia feel very tight (ugh at those mults).

- Walter/Gyne: It might be safer to Holy Crystal/Gem Gyne first with the Einherijar. This depends on the Silence infliction rate, but it would certainly stop the insta-gib after getting him/her killed. So the strat would look something like: Move close enough to use Holy Crystal/Gem, einherijar as lone team. Dash Dylan/Alicia into corner, dash Einherijar into Walter to get killed. Might Potion Dylan, then attack Walter from the back. Of course, this would require you to get the green fire ruin from the lizards in the Dipan caverns versus at the Palace of the Venedrated Dragon

- Evolver: Two schools of thought. One is through I think Takeshi's 1:53:06 run with Alicia and that is to keep Heavyweight as Dylan's slot 1. Then use the knockback on Heavyweight to push Evolver away with every swing. You lose damage and the one rounding pretty much becomes impossible. BUT, the flip side is that the knockback will put him far enough away that Flame Shower can't reach. Then you can just retreat to build AP and wait for the ideal range and attack again (or sacrifice Rufus and get the rest of team in position)

Second school of thought is do what Kraad/Zunde does. However, order of commands is important. First, swap to Flamberge as this prolongs the duration on the OD and Might Potion. Next, Overdrive, then take off 40% (about the H Letter) with a combo. Leave at least 15 AP to retreat. Pop a Might Potion afterwards on Dylan. Wait for 100 AP and dash and attack him from behind. Full combo into SC for kill. This should avoid any issue of no Crystal or GHE.

- Final: Patch has two approaches. The NA community uses Spiral and Mirage Pierce over Imperious Act. Might Potion Valk, then get the rest of the team killed. Attack at 70 AP, which should kill him.

Takeshi does the following, again, order is important: 
Use Overdrive, then move Valk into an advantageous position such that she can reach the back in a single dash. Get rest of the team killed. Might Potion, then dash in and attack with Mirage Pierce -> Cutting Edge -> Imperious Act. If you don't OD, the combo becomes [b]very[/b] exact. You'll have 0 AP left at the end of the combo. Using Imperious Act after Edge as long as he is on the ground seems to generate enough Red Gems.

Personally, I think NA strat is a little bit safer. The only thing is that it might rely on release on a HW, which you won't have cause you need the release earlier (again Alicia's mults are weaker so you need the benefit to get through earlier bit. But it might be possible...)

- Patch overall if you get it from the Highlander should be used over Crystal. Buy some Apothecary's Arcanum in exchange for maybe 3-4 Charge Breaks. Takeshi gets 15, but you never use that many so I think they are mainly for safety. The money on Apothecary's and Union Plumes lets you take advantage of the sweet spot with Rib and Patch and should make some of those kills much safer. Unfortunately, you might not be able to get the patch before Heimdall, which is the one boss you really want it for. 2 chances at the Muscular Stalker but you need both Might Potions for the Chapter 4 boss gauntlet it seems.

Tide

2015-03-23 08:39:03 pm

Insanity Prelude

Results of testing some stuff this evening:

Evolver: Using Heavyweight over Absolute Strike makes the first fight a whole harder. I think this has to do with the amount of damage you have available and Heavyweight's mult being worse means getting the DA here is harder if your first and third swings are of weaker mults (means you can't get to Absolute Strike without significantly more AP). Knockback doesn't seem too relevant against Evolver, but maybe I'm missing someting

Chipping him down 40%, then running back in doesn't really work. Having one of the pots wear off makes taking down the rest of his HP very dangerous as the kill margin doesn't look possible. Which means you have to run in and out and he can Flame Shower you at any time.

Walter/Gyne: The Holy gem seems to have a 100% Siilence infliction on Gyne so if you want to be safe, using this first before the might potion works. It is slower though (by quite a bit since you still have to dodge Walter and then use a Might Potion while having everyone alive before then).

Arectaris: This fight is fine even without GEH or Black Crystal. You actually don't kill it through straight damage but through enough damage to its vitals. Basically, if only three people get killed, the last einherijar should be just outside his pond.This is ideal as Arectaris' only AoE attack other than his SC only hits around him up to the pond area. In this case, attack with Alicia down to about a little over 50%. Then wait, and either charge boost or watch as he kills one person. If Alicia dies, revive her and retreat/build AP since his facing will be towards her. Then attack from the back again. If the Einherijar dies, then Alicia can pretty much just repeat attacking and get the kill in for free.

Final: Without patch, I think Magician Slayer > Toughness. Valkyrie with Mithril Plate and her innate 20% resistances can pretty much take anything he throws (plus you have a full heal should you come to dire straights).Without the patch, you also don't lose HP on every attack so it makes Valkyrie quite durable. The bigger issue is actually getting hit by a status effect from a magic spell as a counter. But a Nectar Potion isn't really worth using IMO. Indifferent Judgment might be the scariest attack there but it could be survivable at full health? Valkyrie will have about 7000 HP and I think it does 3x 2000 damage. Oh and use Spiral -> Mirage ->Cutting Edge as you'll want the extra mults.

Results of testing some stuff this evening:

Evolver: Using Heavyweight over Absolute Strike makes the first fight a whole harder. I think this has to do with the amount of damage you have available and Heavyweight's mult being worse means getting the DA here is harder if your first and third swings are of weaker mults (means you can't get to Absolute Strike without significantly more AP). Knockback doesn't seem too relevant against Evolver, but maybe I'm missing someting

Chipping him down 40%, then running back in doesn't really work. Having one of the pots wear off makes taking down the rest of his HP very dangerous as the kill margin doesn't look possible. Which means you have to run in and out and he can Flame Shower you at any time.

Walter/Gyne: The Holy gem seems to have a 100% Siilence infliction on Gyne so if you want to be safe, using this first before the might potion works. It is slower though (by quite a bit since you still have to dodge Walter and then use a Might Potion while having everyone alive before then).

Arectaris: This fight is fine even without GEH or Black Crystal. You actually don't kill it through straight damage but through enough damage to its vitals. Basically, if only three people get killed, the last einherijar should be just outside his pond.This is ideal as Arectaris' only AoE attack other than his SC only hits around him up to the pond area. In this case, attack with Alicia down to about a little over 50%. Then wait, and either charge boost or watch as he kills one person. If Alicia dies, revive her and retreat/build AP since his facing will be towards her. Then attack from the back again. If the Einherijar dies, then Alicia can pretty much just repeat attacking and get the kill in for free.

Final: Without patch, I think Magician Slayer > Toughness. Valkyrie with Mithril Plate and her innate 20% resistances can pretty much take anything he throws (plus you have a full heal should you come to dire straights).Without the patch, you also don't lose HP on every attack so it makes Valkyrie quite durable. The bigger issue is actually getting hit by a status effect from a magic spell as a counter. But a Nectar Potion isn't really worth using IMO. Indifferent Judgment might be the scariest attack there but it could be survivable at full health? Valkyrie will have about 7000 HP and I think it does 3x 2000 damage. Oh and use Spiral -> Mirage ->Cutting Edge as you'll want the extra mults.

Tide

2015-03-25 01:01:02 pm

Insanity Prelude

Spoke to Takeshi yesterday. There's a revision to the Evolver strat that now guarantees a Direct Assault on the Alicia route, but it is very difficult and requires perfect execution. Since that fight is so dangerous, safety saving might be a good idea. Although its only about 30 mins into the run under non-optimal RNG load outs, so resetting is also a legit option.

Combining everything together so far, I think there's only one combination of rolls that makes the game not possible. And even then, I'm not 100% certain on that. Here's what it looks like:

- Kraad/Zunde. The best load out. This is the current most optimized route and there are several vids of it (Rezard/Dak Rey + several on youtube)
- Roland/???. Rolling Roland pretty much means you need to do Alicia route. If you get Zunde, it *may* be possible to slot in Zunde over Dylan because Sweep Dive and Absolute Swing are pretty close. But haven't tested so I don't know. Alicia route works for sure though. Still completable, but difficult.
- Kraad/Aaron. Takeshi has videos of an Aaron route. So this is also comlpetable
- Kraad/Dyn. The only load out I'm aware of that does not have a vid. It may still be possible to sub in Alicia route strats with Dylan but the 50000 OTH from Roland is quite important for buying the necessary equipment to fight Evolver. You'll save like 18000 OTH though because the Kraadicator > Claymore from the merchant.

Spoke to Takeshi yesterday. There's a revision to the Evolver strat that now guarantees a Direct Assault on the Alicia route, but it is very difficult and requires perfect execution. Since that fight is so dangerous, safety saving might be a good idea. Although its only about 30 mins into the run under non-optimal RNG load outs, so resetting is also a legit option.

Combining everything together so far, I think there's only one combination of rolls that makes the game not possible. And even then, I'm not 100% certain on that. Here's what it looks like:

- Kraad/Zunde. The best load out. This is the current most optimized route and there are several vids of it (Rezard/Dak Rey + several on youtube)
- Roland/???. Rolling Roland pretty much means you need to do Alicia route. If you get Zunde, it *may* be possible to slot in Zunde over Dylan because Sweep Dive and Absolute Swing are pretty close. But haven't tested so I don't  know. Alicia route works for sure though. Still completable, but difficult.
- Kraad/Aaron. Takeshi has videos of an Aaron route. So this is also comlpetable
- Kraad/Dyn. The only load out I'm aware of that does not have a vid. It may still be possible to sub in Alicia route strats with Dylan but the 50000 OTH from Roland is quite important for buying the necessary equipment to fight Evolver. You'll save like 18000 OTH though because the Kraadicator > Claymore from the merchant.

Dak_Rey

2015-03-29 08:57:12 am

I did a run today of a much simpler Alicia route than you seem to have been practising. I died on Freya because I was super dumb, but you should get the idea: http://www.twitch.tv/dak_rey/c/6427003

I was on course for a time under 2:20, but with much better menu planning and not bumping into every other enemy under 2:10 is very easily achievable.

Mistakes include:
- Terrible menuing (they were all over the place, opened the menu several times at once in some cases)
- Terrible avoiding fights. Really terrible.
- Forgetting to use the stat ups from releasing Arcetaris
- Using the Expert's Experience when I do remember the stat ups
- Rushing the Freya fight after I missed the inital dash because I was more focused on competing with my PB than surviving. And dying is a really good way to compete with a PB.
- And watching back it seems I forgot to equip the second Power Bangle as well which would also have saved me in the Freya fight.

Quote:

- Roland/???. Rolling Roland pretty much means you need to do Alicia route. If you get Zunde, it *may* be possible to slot in Zunde over Dylan because Sweep Dive and Absolute Swing are pretty close. But haven't tested so I don't know. Alicia route works for sure though. Still completable, but difficult.

At least the way I do it, I can't swap Zunde in because Sweep Dive costs 90AP for 4 hits whereas Absolute Strike is 80AP. 100AP -15AP for a single dash into position is 85AP remaining.

You can cover every eventuality with three routes:
Kraad/Zunde
Kraad/Dylan/Alicia
Roland/Dylan/Alicia
If you get Kraad at the start, you don't need to commit to a route until after the Zunde relic so it makes it less painful if you would rather just carry on instead of savescum.

I did a run today of a much simpler Alicia route than you seem to have been practising. I died on Freya because I was super dumb, but you should get the idea: http://www.twitch.tv/dak_rey/c/6427003

I was on course for a time under 2:20, but with much better menu planning and not bumping into every other enemy under 2:10 is very easily achievable.

Mistakes include: 
- Terrible menuing (they were all over the place, opened the menu several times at once in some cases)
- Terrible avoiding fights. Really terrible.
- Forgetting to use the stat ups from releasing Arcetaris
- Using the Expert's Experience when I do remember the stat ups
- Rushing the Freya fight after I missed the inital dash because I was more focused on competing with my PB than surviving. [i]And dying is a really good way to compete with a PB.[/i]
- And watching back it seems I forgot to equip the second Power Bangle as well which would also have saved me in the Freya fight.

[quote]- Roland/???. Rolling Roland pretty much means you need to do Alicia route. If you get Zunde, it *may* be possible to slot in Zunde over Dylan because Sweep Dive and Absolute Swing are pretty close. But haven't tested so I don't  know. Alicia route works for sure though. Still completable, but difficult.[/quote]
At least the way I do it, I can't swap Zunde in because Sweep Dive costs 90AP for 4 hits whereas Absolute Strike is 80AP. 100AP -15AP for a single dash into position is 85AP remaining.

You can cover every eventuality with three routes:
Kraad/Zunde
Kraad/Dylan/Alicia
Roland/Dylan/Alicia
If you get Kraad at the start, you don't need to commit to a route until after the Zunde relic so it makes it less painful if you would rather just carry on instead of savescum.

Rezard

2015-03-29 12:54:51 pm

Meteor Swarm

there's load of route , hardest point is to past the evolver with almost all of thoes.

Tide

2015-03-29 03:35:09 pm

Insanity Prelude

Dak_Rey: I reviewed everything starting from Evolver. Good stuff! I already spoke to you on stream, but my route notes are from Takeshi's videos, so I didn't route a lot of it. The one thing I like about your route though is that its a LOT safer. Some key things I noted being different:

- Damascus Ore from PotVD as opposed to Dipan Underground Path (2nd round)
- Bloody Patch farming
- Expert Experiences on Alicia, which combined with the patch and healing Dylan/Alicia lets them take a hit in case of a mistake.
- Needing an extra fight to release Heavy Warrior as opposed to just Expert Experiencing them

I'm not a big fan of farming the Patch with the Alicia route. The big problem is that your amount of Might Potions is quite limited. DAing the Muscular Stalkers give you a Might Potion. You need a minimum of 2 Might Potions to handle the Chapter 4 boss gauntlet. Here's how Takeshi's route looks like with the Might Potions:

- Use 1 on Evolver 2. If you DA both forms, you'll have 2 Flare Crystals. Must DA at least one form.
- If you have 1 Flare Crystal, Might Potion on Hydra (0 Potions left), then get the two from the Muscular Stalker fights (+2), use one on Dragon Zombie (1), gain an extra one when Leone leaves (2). Use the 2 Might Potions on Ull and Mages. Grab the Charge Break in PotVD for Hrist.
- If you have 2 Flare Crysals, then save the Might Potion on Hydra. Gain 2 from Muscular Stalkers (3). Use on Dragon Zombie (2). Gain one when Leone leaves (3). 3 Might Potions for all 3 fights in Chapter 4.

In other words, farming for the Bloody Patch if you only have one Flare Crystal is risky. Unless the Muscular Stalker spawns as a regular enemy, I'm not sure how you can get the patch for sure since the drop isn't even 100%. Takeshi's route works even without the patch so that's a good "back up". With the Patch, you can heal yourself instead of needing to be at critical HP all day. Evolver is a whole lot harder too with Takeshi's route.

Rezard: Yeah, Evolver is a huge pain. As I like to put it, the first 2.5 chapters are free. Everything else starting from Evolver is when the game really kicks you in the pants and the margin of error drops to pretty much zero.

Dak_Rey: I reviewed everything starting from Evolver. Good stuff! I already spoke to you on stream, but my route notes are from Takeshi's videos, so I didn't route a lot of it. The one thing I like about your route though is that its a LOT safer. Some key things I noted being different:

- Damascus Ore from PotVD as opposed to Dipan Underground Path (2nd round)
- Bloody Patch farming
- Expert Experiences on Alicia, which combined with the patch and healing Dylan/Alicia lets them take a hit in case of a mistake.
- Needing an extra fight to release Heavy Warrior as opposed to just Expert Experiencing them

I'm not a big fan of farming the Patch with the Alicia route. The big problem is that your amount of Might Potions is quite limited. DAing the Muscular Stalkers give you a Might Potion. You need a minimum of 2 Might Potions to handle the Chapter 4 boss gauntlet. Here's how Takeshi's route looks like with the Might Potions:

- Use 1 on Evolver 2. If you DA both forms, you'll have 2 Flare Crystals. Must DA at least one form. 
- If you have 1 Flare Crystal, Might Potion on Hydra (0 Potions left), then get the two from the Muscular Stalker fights (+2), use one on Dragon Zombie (1), gain an extra one when Leone leaves (2). Use the 2 Might Potions on Ull and Mages. Grab the Charge Break in PotVD for Hrist. 
- If you have 2 Flare Crysals, then save the Might Potion on Hydra. Gain 2 from Muscular Stalkers (3). Use on Dragon Zombie (2). Gain one when Leone leaves  (3). 3 Might Potions for all 3 fights in Chapter 4.

In other words, farming for the Bloody Patch if you only have one Flare Crystal is risky. Unless the Muscular Stalker spawns as a regular enemy, I'm not sure how you can get the patch for sure since the drop isn't even 100%. Takeshi's route works even without the patch so that's a good "back up". With the Patch, you can heal yourself instead of needing to be at critical HP all day. Evolver is a whole lot harder too with Takeshi's route.

Rezard: Yeah, Evolver is a huge pain. As I like to put it, the first 2.5 chapters are free. Everything else starting from Evolver is when the game really kicks you in the pants and the margin of error drops to pretty much zero.

Tide

2015-03-29 11:24:53 pm

Insanity Prelude

Did 4 attempts today. 2 of them died because Dragon Rib and 2 other died at Evolver. I used your strat for Evolver and I'm very impressed by it. Makes that fight no longer a fight you will lose in unless you mess up, although slower than Takeshi strat. Still I will take it for safety since Takeshi's strat basically requires you to not screw up. Couple of things of note:

- Still can't find a good way to farm the patch. As I noted, you need the DA for the Might Potion. In theory, if you get the 3x Muscular Stalker fight, you can just take on all three but you lose the DA so I dunno. Unless there's something I'm missing?
- Is the Armor Piercer random? I didn't get it when I attacked the Dimensional Beast from behind twice during practice. Is there anywhere else to pick up a red weakness rune?

Rezard

2015-03-30 02:26:09 am

Meteor Swarm

armor piercer is 90% X2 (back tentacle)

Tide

2015-03-30 07:24:35 am

Insanity Prelude

Just watched Takeshi do a practice run today. He ended up with no Patch/Armor Piercer. Set up in that case for Final Lezard was Toughness/Fists of Iron/Solitary Struggle. Brahms/Rufus/Arngrim as active party, release both einherijar units. Use Brahms in case Valkyrie gets status'd on the first attack since you won't one round. Might Potion and use the OD if you have it (OD first). Takes an extra round or two of combat. The important thing to note is that Brahms needs to get killed at some point so you can get the full bonus on Solitary Struggle. Sacrificing him to Indifferent Judgement or a AoE spell looks like it works well enough.

Dak_Rey

2015-03-30 07:34:21 am

Might potions aren't as tight as you seem to think. If you're lucky, you don't need to DA either of the Muscular Stalker fights but worst case is you only need to DA one of them.
If you are lucky and get the Thunderbreath Core from the fight in the Ruins, then you can learn Descaling Might before the Hydra. This takes the place of using a Might potion there. You also learn Unholy Purifier which means you don't need a Might potion for Dragon Zombie. In the Palace, after you warp to the Painted Stone, you can go right instead of left in the first corridor and grab a might potion in the furthest of the three chests without losing too much time. Getting a direct assault in either of the Stalker fights will leave you with three potions after Leone leaves; one for Ull, Mages and Hrist and if you had Descaling Might for the Hydra then an extra on top of that.

As for farming the patch: In the first Stalker fight, I go straight for the leader and hope to get one. If I don't, then in the second fight I will kill the non-leader Stalker(s) first. The patch is a 40% drop rate so still not getting it at that point is uncommon (but not rare), and in that eventuality I run from the fight instead of killing the leader and do it again until I get the patch. Obviously this isn't optimal, but I die to enough stupid things already and not getting the patch means much riskier strats.

Might potions aren't as tight as you seem to think. If you're lucky, you don't need to DA either of the Muscular Stalker fights but worst case is you only need to DA one of them.
If you are lucky and get the Thunderbreath Core from the fight in the Ruins, then you can learn Descaling Might before the Hydra. This takes the place of using a Might potion there. You also learn Unholy Purifier which means you don't need a Might potion for Dragon Zombie. In the Palace, after you warp to the Painted Stone, you can go right instead of left in the first corridor and grab a might potion in the furthest of the three chests without losing too much time. Getting a direct assault in either of the Stalker fights will leave you with three potions after Leone leaves; one for Ull, Mages and Hrist and if you had Descaling Might for the Hydra then an extra on top of that.

As for farming the patch: In the first Stalker fight, I go straight for the leader and hope to get one. If I don't, then in the second fight I will kill the non-leader Stalker(s) first. The patch is a 40% drop rate so still not getting it at that point is uncommon (but not rare), and in that eventuality I run from the fight instead of killing the leader and do it again until I get the patch. Obviously this isn't optimal, but I die to enough stupid things already and not getting the patch means much riskier strats.