Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-05-18 06:41:08 pm

2007-05-18 05:23:58 pm

Never give up!

My edit of the last post came after your post, but Dylan and Zunde were level 13 entering that fight in my test case, and Dylan did around 750-800 damage per strike with Sword Blessing, Fists of Iron, Descaling Might, and a back attack. Compared to Zunde's 1100-1200 or so.

I'm still not entirely sure we NEED to DA Hydra, or that DAing Hydra will be better for us than one fight elsewhere.

Edit: Also, here's some of my current thoughts on an SS run:

From Lost Forest up to and including the defeat of Primorial Ooze, nothing changes. Don't fight anything on the way back through Lost Forest though, and make sure to get Hildr's Sword on the way out of Dipan.

Kythena doesn't change either.

Serdberg is where the first big change occurs. We will still get Tyrith/Celes, though this time I won't care which one. However, I suggest fighting battles here until Kraad can be released. Don't release Kraad or do these fights until after Wyvern though. Try to get both a Great Eagle Heart and a Thunderbreath Core from a couple of those fights - which may have to be done when Kraad's already ready.

For Wyvern, use Dylan, Arngrim, AND Kraad and go for the transfer kill. With all three I reasonably think transferring in one round of attacks is possible. Also, at some point in Serdberg, go after the Gandeeva - we're going to be using SCs later, so this should help.

Ancient Forest doesn't change - the plan still calls for back attacks and a DA on Griffon.

Audoula shouldn't need to change either.

In Kalstad, buy an Infinity Rod and make sure to pick up whatever Red Body rune equipment can be used by archers. Give that item to Rufus.

At the start of Surt's Volcano Caverns, arrange attacks as follows:
-Aaron: Structural Shot - Smashing Swing
-Dyn: Lower Split - Bloody Crusade
-Zunde: Dreaded Radius - Sweep Dive

Fight in Surt's Volcano Caverns until the appropriate character gets their needed skills, as usual. Fists of Iron is needed regardless, but if that character is not Zunde, make sure they learn Descaling Might as well (neither Aaron nor Dyn can feasibly get Giant Killer before the end of Chapter 3 at earliest, and that's if they can knock loose a Red Holy rune). Make sure to build up Mithra a bit as well.

For Evolver, the party should be the following: Tyrith/Celes (with Hildr's Sword), Sha-Kon/Chrystie (with Gandeeva), Mithra (with Infinity Rod), and Aaron/Dyn/Zunde (with Flamberge - their MAG is so weak the Flamberge's fire element shouldn't heal Evolver much). Use SCs against Evolver, though pump your Heavy Warrior with a Might Potion in the second fight.

Hydra in Crawsus should use the same setup.

In Palace of the Venerated Dragon, I'm picking up the Heavy Warrior. If I wound up with Dyn earlier, I may switch to this other warrior. This is most likely if I landed Gerald for this one - he'll be the strongest of these three by run's end - but all three bear some chance.

I plan on having whatever heavy warrior I ultimately use learn Magician Slayer. If I didn't land Zunde OR Gerald, I'm tempted to also have them learn Unholy Purifier - I can get the Blue Holy rune from a shop somewhere - for this boss. Also against this boss, I will probably stick to SCs and may still use Wrath of Forcefulness - though I'm not restoring that stone regardless. After this dungeon, I pick up the Ourobouros Symbol and get Rufus started on Double Edge (I need a Red Head, Red Body, or Red Leg rune to connect all the required runes for this skill).

That's about where my thoughts on an SS stop right now. Depending on how the Serstine-lock-gun thing works out, I may pick up Sophalla/Arcana in Surt's Volcano Caverns, but I doubt it, as I'd feel the need to grab Mistletein later to make them worth releasing.

My edit of the last post came after your post, but Dylan and Zunde were level 13 entering that fight in my test case, and Dylan did around 750-800 damage per strike with Sword Blessing, Fists of Iron, Descaling Might, and a back attack.  Compared to Zunde's 1100-1200 or so.

I'm still not entirely sure we NEED to DA Hydra, or that DAing Hydra will be better for us than one fight elsewhere.

Edit: Also, here's some of my current thoughts on an SS run:

From Lost Forest up to and including the defeat of Primorial Ooze, nothing changes.  Don't fight anything on the way back through Lost Forest though, and make sure to get Hildr's Sword on the way out of Dipan.

Kythena doesn't change either.

Serdberg is where the first big change occurs.  We will still get Tyrith/Celes, though this time I won't care which one.  However, I suggest fighting battles here until Kraad can be released.  Don't release Kraad or do these fights until after Wyvern though.  Try to get both a Great Eagle Heart and a Thunderbreath Core from a couple of those fights - which may have to be done when Kraad's already ready.

For Wyvern, use Dylan, Arngrim, AND Kraad and go for the transfer kill.  With all three I reasonably think transferring in one round of attacks is possible.  Also, at some point in Serdberg, go after the Gandeeva - we're going to be using SCs later, so this should help.

Ancient Forest doesn't change - the plan still calls for back attacks and a DA on Griffon.

Audoula shouldn't need to change either.

In Kalstad, buy an Infinity Rod and make sure to pick up whatever Red Body rune equipment can be used by archers.  Give that item to Rufus.

At the start of Surt's Volcano Caverns, arrange attacks as follows:
-Aaron: Structural Shot - Smashing Swing
-Dyn: Lower Split - Bloody Crusade
-Zunde: Dreaded Radius - Sweep Dive

Fight in Surt's Volcano Caverns until the appropriate character gets their needed skills, as usual.  Fists of Iron is needed regardless, but if that character is not Zunde, make sure they learn Descaling Might as well (neither Aaron nor Dyn can feasibly get Giant Killer before the end of Chapter 3 at earliest, and that's if they can knock loose a Red Holy rune).  Make sure to build up Mithra a bit as well.

For Evolver, the party should be the following: Tyrith/Celes (with Hildr's Sword), Sha-Kon/Chrystie (with Gandeeva), Mithra (with Infinity Rod), and Aaron/Dyn/Zunde (with Flamberge - their MAG is so weak the Flamberge's fire element shouldn't heal Evolver much).  Use SCs against Evolver, though pump your Heavy Warrior with a Might Potion in the second fight.

Hydra in Crawsus should use the same setup.

In Palace of the Venerated Dragon, I'm picking up the Heavy Warrior.  If I wound up with Dyn earlier, I may switch to this other warrior.  This is most likely if I landed Gerald for this one - he'll be the strongest of these three by run's end - but all three bear some chance.

I plan on having whatever heavy warrior I ultimately use learn Magician Slayer.  If I didn't land Zunde OR Gerald, I'm tempted to also have them learn Unholy Purifier - I can get the Blue Holy rune from a shop somewhere - for this boss.  Also against this boss, I will probably stick to SCs and may still use Wrath of Forcefulness - though I'm not restoring that stone regardless.  After this dungeon, I pick up the Ourobouros Symbol and get Rufus started on Double Edge (I need a Red Head, Red Body, or Red Leg rune to connect all the required runes for this skill).

That's about where my thoughts on an SS stop right now.  Depending on how the Serstine-lock-gun thing works out, I may pick up Sophalla/Arcana in Surt's Volcano Caverns, but I doubt it, as I'd feel the need to grab Mistletein later to make them worth releasing.

tri-Ace Fanboy

2007-05-18 06:44:42 pm

Direct Assault!

Serstine-lock-gun has 15% drop rate. No idea about Arngrim, but probably doesn't make much of a difference. It only matters for Arectaris, and I don't think the time saved by using the Grand Sting is going to be much bigger than the time spent to get it.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-05-19 12:17:48 am

2007-05-18 10:50:18 pm

Never give up!

Okay.... judging from those, I should probably skip both. So no Sophalla/Arcana.

I should note right now that in the segmented run, and probably in the SS, I'm not even going to bother releasing Mithra. I won't have anywhere to put those release items in either case.

I had a thought as far as the SS goes. Since Mithra's going to be a part of our team until at LEAST Hrist and Arngrim (the earliest I expect Rufus to be able to use Double Edge) and possibly as far as the White Dragon (the point where Rufus returns), should we get Woltar/Alm and Khanon and release them with the Dragonlore and Deluge Scepter (neither of which can use Great Magic - yes, this means Mithra will have the Infinity Rod for a LONG time, unless I should knock loose a Sacred Spinel and two Copper Signets, in which case I'll make a Holy Rod) to make him stronger? For him to be useful any longer than the White Dragon, we'd be required to get him the Ether Scepter, and frankly, by that point, I think using Rufus in slot three of the chain will be better for us despite how weak he'd probably be.

Edit: At any rate, we have enough information to go ahead with the real segmented run.

Known DAs are as follows:
-Lost Forest
-Royal Underground Path
-Two in Dipan
-Two in Serdberg (one battle for Thunderbreath Core and one for Great Eagle Heart - I'll make CERTAIN both are DAs, since I know it's possible)
-Wyvern
-The Poison Seed battle
-Griffon
-Four in Surt's Volcano Caverns
-Two in Palace of the Venerated Dragon

Other non-DA battles:
-Kraken (an 8-crystal battle I think - absolutely not a DA)
-Hydra (another 8-crystal battle - might wind up a DA, but I'm not counting on it)

That's 15 certain DAs. Subtract 5 for Sword Blessing, and multiply by the crystals per DA, and we have 300 crystals here. Add in the extras and we have 316 crystals, so we'd need 184 more to get Wrath of Forcefulness. That means we need 6 DAs, plus one battle with at least 4 crystals, to make up the necessary crystal count for Wrath of Forcefulness. I'm thinking six in Lost Forest and one more battle somewhere else yet to be determined. Might be Serdberg if I need Kraad to get to release level.

Okay.... judging from those, I should probably skip both.  So no Sophalla/Arcana.

I should note right now that in the segmented run, and probably in the SS, I'm not even going to bother releasing Mithra.  I won't have anywhere to put those release items in either case.

I had a thought as far as the SS goes.  Since Mithra's going to be a part of our team until at LEAST Hrist and Arngrim (the earliest I expect Rufus to be able to use Double Edge) and possibly as far as the White Dragon (the point where Rufus returns), should we get Woltar/Alm and Khanon and release them with the Dragonlore and Deluge Scepter (neither of which can use Great Magic - yes, this means Mithra will have the Infinity Rod for a LONG time, unless I should knock loose a Sacred Spinel and two Copper Signets, in which case I'll make a Holy Rod) to make him stronger?  For him to be useful any longer than the White Dragon, we'd be required to get him the Ether Scepter, and frankly, by that point, I think using Rufus in slot three of the chain will be better for us despite how weak he'd probably be.

Edit: At any rate, we have enough information to go ahead with the real segmented run.

Known DAs are as follows:
-Lost Forest
-Royal Underground Path
-Two in Dipan
-Two in Serdberg (one battle for Thunderbreath Core and one for Great Eagle Heart - I'll make CERTAIN both are DAs, since I know it's possible)
-Wyvern
-The Poison Seed battle
-Griffon
-Four in Surt's Volcano Caverns
-Two in Palace of the Venerated Dragon

Other non-DA battles:
-Kraken (an 8-crystal battle I think - absolutely not a DA)
-Hydra (another 8-crystal battle - might wind up a DA, but I'm not counting on it)

That's 15 certain DAs.  Subtract 5 for Sword Blessing, and multiply by the crystals per DA, and we have 300 crystals here.  Add in the extras and we have 316 crystals, so we'd need 184 more to get Wrath of Forcefulness.  That means we need 6 DAs, plus one battle with at least 4 crystals, to make up the necessary crystal count for Wrath of Forcefulness.  I'm thinking six in Lost Forest and one more battle somewhere else yet to be determined.  Might be Serdberg if I need Kraad to get to release level.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-05-23 02:16:15 am

2007-05-23 01:56:47 am

Never give up!

Progress update.

I'm up to the save before Griffon at about 33 minutes. Quite a bit behind the current run, although that's really difficult to compare in this situation.

Wyvern took about 45 attempts to get. I waited three days between the first 30 and the last 15. It's not that Celes' Soul Pierce special effect wouldn't activate - it's that Wyvern would resist the special effect, even when it happened two or three or four times in the same fight (there's roughly 6% odds of him resisting four in a row - and the chance of four happening in the same fight is probably .01% - so that's a REALLY rare situation. Might warrant an outtakes reel).

And a rare fluke occurred in this run. Normally, one battle in Ancient Forest is enough to get Dylan the skills he needs for Griffon. However, it took not one, not two, but THREE fights to get the needed skills this time. I got a rare 'conga line' formation of enemies (that's about 5 Toxic Flowers led by a Sack Mimic, all lined up) followed by two fights of Toxic Flowers led by a Thunder Hawk. I was COUNTING on the first fight involving a Troll - it would have only taken two fights then.

Because of the fact that those two fights were DAs (fairly fast ones I should note), I am considering skipping the two fights I would normally do in Surt's Volcano Caverns. If the second Evolver fight doesn't wind up a DA because of this (it SHOULDN'T be affected), I'll just reinstate one fight to make up for it.

Edit: Up to Sahma at 41:52. Back ahead of Alkaiser's run in other words.

Anyway, Kraken took just two tries to get right - and the first try, I was just trying to replicate a result from a practice run. See, I had stuffed my whole party in the right-side corner, but just when Dylan was about to win, Kraken unleashed Tidal Wave (killing the whole party). For the second fight I stuffed the rest of my party into the LEFT corner, so no issues.

You'd be amazed how close that fight is to a DA.

Progress update.

I'm up to the save before Griffon at about 33 minutes.  Quite a bit behind the current run, although that's really difficult to compare in this situation.

Wyvern took about 45 attempts to get.  I waited three days between the first 30 and the last 15.  It's not that Celes' Soul Pierce special effect wouldn't activate - it's that Wyvern would resist the special effect, even when it happened two or three or four times in the same fight (there's roughly 6% odds of him resisting four in a row - and the chance of four happening in the same fight is probably .01% - so that's a REALLY rare situation.  Might warrant an outtakes reel).

And a rare fluke occurred in this run.  Normally, one battle in Ancient Forest is enough to get Dylan the skills he needs for Griffon.  However, it took not one, not two, but THREE fights to get the needed skills this time.  I got a rare 'conga line' formation of enemies (that's about 5 Toxic Flowers led by a Sack Mimic, all lined up) followed by two fights of Toxic Flowers led by a Thunder Hawk.  I was COUNTING on the first fight involving a Troll - it would have only taken two fights then.

Because of the fact that those two fights were DAs (fairly fast ones I should note), I am considering skipping the two fights I would normally do in Surt's Volcano Caverns.  If the second Evolver fight doesn't wind up a DA because of this (it SHOULDN'T be affected), I'll just reinstate one fight to make up for it.

Edit: Up to Sahma at 41:52.  Back ahead of Alkaiser's run in other words.

Anyway, Kraken took just two tries to get right - and the first try, I was just trying to replicate a result from a practice run.  See, I had stuffed my whole party in the right-side corner, but just when Dylan was about to win, Kraken unleashed Tidal Wave (killing the whole party).  For the second fight I stuffed the rest of my party into the LEFT corner, so no issues.

You'd be amazed how close that fight is to a DA.

AquaTiger

2007-05-25 05:44:51 am

Never give up!

Okay, a new update.

I had a bit of a scare as far as this run just a few minutes ago. I thought I had lost an entire bunch of segments from Sahma Desert all the way to Hrist. Thankfully, it just turned out that my attempt to finalize it didn't work the first time (I have to do it blindly, seeing how for some reason, I can't hook my DVD recorder to a TV and still get data sent to it). And after finalizing the DVD with those works just fine.

Anyway, I'm about 9-10 minutes ahead of Alkaiser at the end of Chapter 4. I'm giving Alkaiser a bit of a benefit of a doubt, seeing as I saved sooner than he did. Still, I think I was BEHIND on time at this point in the test run - goes to show what a little cleaning up does.

The worst segments of the run occur here (Sahma Desert and Surt's Volcano Caverns) as I decided to fight two extra battles anyway to get Alicia to learn Fists of Iron and Magician Slayer. This gets coupled with the best Evolver fight I've ever had - I think this is maybe the second time he's never attacked me, and this certainly went a bit faster.

Hydra's handled solo, and I DO have the Sword Blessing (I fought the Troll for Mudbank Law, which may turn out to be a bit of a mistake but oh well).

Ull caused no trouble - I don't even think he DID anything.

But the craziest part of this? By accident (I'd forgotten that a particular save point was the last one before the Hrist fight), I fought Walther/Gyne and Hrist/Arngrim in the same segment. Even better, both fights went as well as they possibly could have (both fights were won in 3 hits - since I OHKOed Gyne).

I'm telling you, that Great Eagle Heart makes a bit of a difference right now.

Okay, a new update.

I had a bit of a scare as far as this run just a few minutes ago.  I thought I had lost an entire bunch of segments from Sahma Desert all the way to Hrist.  Thankfully, it just turned out that my attempt to finalize it didn't work the first time (I have to do it blindly, seeing how for some reason, I can't hook my DVD recorder to a TV and still get data sent to it).  And after finalizing the DVD with those works just fine.

Anyway, I'm about 9-10 minutes ahead of Alkaiser at the end of Chapter 4.  I'm giving Alkaiser a bit of a benefit of a doubt, seeing as I saved sooner than he did.  Still, I think I was BEHIND on time at this point in the test run - goes to show what a little cleaning up does.

The worst segments of the run occur here (Sahma Desert and Surt's Volcano Caverns) as I decided to fight two extra battles anyway to get Alicia to learn Fists of Iron and Magician Slayer.  This gets coupled with the best Evolver fight I've ever had - I think this is maybe the second time he's never attacked me, and this certainly went a bit faster.

Hydra's handled solo, and I DO have the Sword Blessing (I fought the Troll for Mudbank Law, which may turn out to be a bit of a mistake but oh well).

Ull caused no trouble - I don't even think he DID anything.

But the craziest part of this?  By accident (I'd forgotten that a particular save point was the last one before the Hrist fight), I fought Walther/Gyne and Hrist/Arngrim in the same segment.  Even better, both fights went as well as they possibly could have (both fights were won in 3 hits - since I OHKOed Gyne).

I'm telling you, that Great Eagle Heart makes a bit of a difference right now.

Enhasa

Edit history:

Enhasa: 2007-05-28 07:03:41 pm

2007-05-28 06:47:32 am

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

That accidental bypassed save thing was pretty funny. Good luck on the rest of the run.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-05-30 03:09:24 pm

2007-05-30 02:57:41 pm

Never give up!

Okay.

For the next few segments I was willing to let some things slide. I had a rough time over the past few days and was not in the mood for perfection.

Still, I was 9-10 minutes ahead at the end of Chapter 4, and I'm about 14-15 minutes ahead at the save in Asgard. So I'm still doing SOMETHING right. Maybe it'll get figured out in the verifying.

For Forest of Spirits - on the two passes combined, I wound up encountering the minibosses 5 out of a potential 6 times. Two were planned (the first one on each pass almost never cooperates), and for two others I had a pair of Tomes of Godspeed left over from Direct Assaults in Serdberg and Ancient Forest. That leaves one unplanned fight. (The only one that cooperated was the second miniboss on the first pass.)

For Arectaris, I had to skip out on using a Might Potion because Arectaris decided NOT to use a radial attack (which is quite rare in my case). I still beat him in two hits.

The Aesir guarding Ravine Caverns went down in one hit. By the way, tri-Ace_Fanboy... yes, when using Wrath of Forcefulness, weapons CAN break on one-hit-kills. I know this because it happened to me right here.

Ravine Caverns I somehow managed to ace on the first try, despite not having played that area specifically in a while.

Heimdall was no issue - I originally thought it would be a good idea to take out his minions, but just taking a hit from a single one filled my AP to the point where I could beat him in six blows (I had to realign for the last one, and was concerned he'd use a technique that hits behind him).

I am going to try to finish this run today. So I'll keep people posted.

....wait a minute. Another idea for single-segment runs. Why not fight a bunch in Serdberg and Ancient Forest to GET some extra Tomes of Godspeed? That way you have some insurance against later screwups. Finding some use for the crystals gotten from Direct Assaults will be tougher. All I can think of is getting Fire Blessing or Ice Blessing - the former would be for attackers later, the latter would be for taking some of the edge off of bosses like Evolver.

Okay.

For the next few segments I was willing to let some things slide.  I had a rough time over the past few days and was not in the mood for perfection.

Still, I was 9-10 minutes ahead at the end of Chapter 4, and I'm about 14-15 minutes ahead at the save in Asgard.  So I'm still doing SOMETHING right.  Maybe it'll get figured out in the verifying.

For Forest of Spirits - on the two passes combined, I wound up encountering the minibosses 5 out of a potential 6 times.  Two were planned (the first one on each pass almost never cooperates), and for two others I had a pair of Tomes of Godspeed left over from Direct Assaults in Serdberg and Ancient Forest.  That leaves one unplanned fight.  (The only one that cooperated was the second miniboss on the first pass.)

For Arectaris, I had to skip out on using a Might Potion because Arectaris decided NOT to use a radial attack (which is quite rare in my case).  I still beat him in two hits.

The Aesir guarding Ravine Caverns went down in one hit.  By the way, tri-Ace_Fanboy... yes, when using Wrath of Forcefulness, weapons CAN break on one-hit-kills.  I know this because it happened to me right here.

Ravine Caverns I somehow managed to ace on the first try, despite not having played that area specifically in a while.

Heimdall was no issue - I originally thought it would be a good idea to take out his minions, but just taking a hit from a single one filled my AP to the point where I could beat him in six blows (I had to realign for the last one, and was concerned he'd use a technique that hits behind him).

I am going to try to finish this run today.  So I'll keep people posted.

....wait a minute.  Another idea for single-segment runs.  Why not fight a bunch in Serdberg and Ancient Forest to GET some extra Tomes of Godspeed?  That way you have some insurance against later screwups.  Finding some use for the crystals gotten from Direct Assaults will be tougher.  All I can think of is getting Fire Blessing or Ice Blessing - the former would be for attackers later, the latter would be for taking some of the edge off of bosses like Evolver.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-05-30 04:44:18 pm

2007-05-30 04:42:15 pm

Never give up!

I figured this deserved a separate post, so....

I have officially completed the run.

Time at final save was about 2:18, and the final battle took somewhere between 3-4 minutes. It took less than last time because I used Durandal instead of Gjallarhorn (3 attacks compared to one), and because my weapon didn't break during the Anarchic Entity fight. (And when watching my fight, I am STILL convinced that Spiral Pierce's final hit ignores RDM.)

Another change I did was to give the releasing characters the valkyries' armor, not just their weapons. By doing this, I got more Ambrosia, and Valkyrie's max HP was higher. This undoubtedly powered up Dragon Rib even more.

All told, I beat Alkaiser's run by roughly 24 minutes.

I've decided to skip recording the ending, just as the current run does. If we have enough support from people who haven't played the game though, I may go back and record the ending, putting it up somewhere else.

It may take a while before I can get this run out. The reason is that I'm still needing to capture a run of another game that I did five months ago, and would rather submit both at the same time.

I figured this deserved a separate post, so....

I have officially completed the run.

Time at final save was about 2:18, and the final battle took somewhere between 3-4 minutes.  It took less than last time because I used Durandal instead of Gjallarhorn (3 attacks compared to one), and because my weapon didn't break during the Anarchic Entity fight.  (And when watching my fight, I am STILL convinced that Spiral Pierce's final hit ignores RDM.)

Another change I did was to give the releasing characters the valkyries' armor, not just their weapons.  By doing this, I got more Ambrosia, and Valkyrie's max HP was higher.  This undoubtedly powered up Dragon Rib even more.

All told, I beat Alkaiser's run by roughly 24 minutes.

I've decided to skip recording the ending, just as the current run does.  If we have enough support from people who haven't played the game though, I may go back and record the ending, putting it up somewhere else.

It may take a while before I can get this run out.  The reason is that I'm still needing to capture a run of another game that I did five months ago, and would rather submit both at the same time.

getter77

2007-05-30 06:45:52 pm

100% runs=great to watch

Congrats on the accomplishment Aquatiger...we all clearly see the massive amount of planning and wrangling that went into this. Good show! 8)

spineshark

Edit history:

spineshark: 2007-05-30 09:16:10 pm

2007-05-30 09:15:02 pm

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

Quote:

I've decided to skip recording the ending, just as the current run does. If we have enough support from people who haven't played the game though, I may go back and record the ending, putting it up somewhere else.

oh badass it's just like fire emblem! i bet the ending is on youtube anyway. and holystar also has it (for the time being)...in japanese, but it doesn't really make any less sense. Tongue

oh yeah, this deserves a congratulations, obviously. sometimes i forget with all my snarky jokes =(

Marty81

Edit history:

Marty81: 2007-05-30 10:39:52 pm

2007-05-30 10:39:24 pm

Quote:

(And when watching my fight, I am STILL convinced that Spiral Pierce's final hit ignores RDM.)

According to taF, Valk's best attacks are:

Non-elemental: Spiral Pierce (1.4 with 0.9 holy), Gale Winds (1.05 with 0.9 holy), Mirage Pierce (1, ignores RDM).

Perhaps you were just seeing the higher innate damage multiplier on Spiral Pierce? Or were Spiral Pierce critical hits not doing any additional damage?

Edit: Btw, congrats on finishing the run. That's a great time. I look forward to watching.

AquaTiger

2007-05-31 12:02:12 am

Never give up!

I seem to recall that the way Spiral Pierce works is something like 0.2 + 0.2 + 1.0 (the 'holy' part is distributed across all three hits). I'm pretty sure the Holy part is cancelled out altogether from RST, and the damage Spiral Pierce's last hit was doing in my case (WITHOUT a critical hit) was right around what Mirage Pierce was doing - a bit higher I believe. And Spiral Pierce was only second in the attack chain (Mirage Pierce - Spiral Pierce - Imperious Act; I didn't remove the last one because if the weapon doesn't break, Imperious Act will deal enough damage to finish Anarchic Entity off).

If you're STILL not convinced I can upload the video.

Setho_O

2007-06-18 08:10:14 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Congrats on the time. I had wished that my time would still count but it seems that ive been beaten by quite the margin (2:26) using my own strategies

I also want to welcome Marty whos DMC3 videos are simply awesome. So welcome Marty, good to see you are a fan of Vp2.

AS for me i will probably take on another speed run of Vp2 and i will try to break the current record.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-06-18 11:52:52 pm

2007-06-18 11:50:15 pm

Never give up!

I know people have been waiting for me to send this thing, and I was going to wait until I could submit two runs at once, but because of issues with that other run (as some have heard, the run in question is unsubmittable) I will wait no longer on this run.

I just got all four DVDs of the video of this run onto my computer a couple of minutes ago, and will be separating things out later tonight. I will not self-encode, however - I'll separate out the pieces and let Nate handle the rest (I just send the m2v and ac3 files, right?). I'll probably get in touch with Mike over the next couple of days.

And if the admins decide I need to record the game's ending (rather than letting me do what the last run of this game did by not recording the ending), I'll do it then.

mikwuyma

2007-06-19 06:59:24 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

You don't need to record the ending. There are plenty of runs that skip the ending.

AquaTiger

2007-06-26 05:41:28 am

Never give up!

Thanks for the heads up.

Anyway, I just got all the video and audio pieces from the four DVDs' worth of material for this run, and if all goes well I should be getting in touch with Mike tomorrow (or, considering the time right now where I live, it'd be closer to "later today").

My estimate for official time is 2:21:03, by the way, and it turns out to be 40 segments.

tri-Ace Fanboy

2007-08-22 11:10:43 pm

Direct Assault!

I was testing some photon warps and ended up starting a test run. Currently in Kythena Plains, time is 0:13:05. It's up in Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=triAceFan

I haven't planned it too much beyond that yet, but I do want to continue. Just looking for some feedback for now.

AquaTiger

2007-08-23 02:30:41 am

Never give up!

I say don't get too far ahead yet - my run's still in verification, since apparently the verifiers have been lazy or somesuch.

That said, I only watched the third segment immediately. So THAT'S how you managed to do it with just Dylan and Kraad? As I may have said before I always needed Rufus for this for some reason. I'll have a deeper look at this later.

tri-Ace Fanboy

2007-08-24 02:33:55 am

Direct Assault!

Huh. Turns out that Kraad doesn't need the Double-check to reach level 6 against the Wyvern and now I don't know where to use it.

There are other ways to get the DA but the one I use is the easiest (and fastest) I know of. My Ooze strategy works but it's not very good, if the boss doesn't cooperate after every combo I lose the DA . I can't think of anything better though.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-09-09 12:42:36 am

2007-09-09 12:38:37 am

Never give up!

Okay, as some people might have heard, I've been playing through the game on 1-crystal difficulty.

What some people won't know is that I'm also doing some planning for the single-segment run I promised at one point to do. This is going to be a pain to plan, so I'm starting now in the hopes that I can have the thing planned by the time I finish several other runs.

Here's a slight update on how I think it'd go:
-Play Royal Underground Path as normal. I want Richelle and Kraad - hoo boy, that'll be a fun one.
-Fight Ballistic Rhino with Dylan, Kraad, and Rufus, as my segmented run does.
-Before entering Dipan's castle, buy Two-Handed Swords as my segmented run does.
-Go through the basement and fight Primorial Ooze with Dylan and Kraad, again like my segmented run.
-Get a Fish Scales in Kythena Plains as normal. Here's the first change - I also need to try for a Pact Chain, to get Unholy Purifier (for Dragon Zombie). I'm not pursuing this one heavily, however - if I don't get it, I don't get it.
-In Serdberg, I fight until Kraad and Richelle reach release level. Having a Thunderbreath Core (for Descaling Might) would be helpful but not critical. Getting a Great Eagle Heart is important however.
==Here's where my first dilemma occurs. Do I face Crust Golem for the Gandeeva, or do I try to get a Koboldapult and three Feathers for the Supreme Crossbow? The latter is definitely better, but quite luck-dependent. I have to get one of these two, because my current plans for the single-segment run rely on Soul Crushes and the next chance I have for an SC-capable bow isn't until Palace of the Venerated Dragon (my next certain opportunity to get an SC-capable bow is Chapter 4). Note that if I face Crust Golem, I'm certainly trying to knock loose a Blade Claw - it'll allow me to work on some skills sooner with other characters, PLUS it's an easy early way to boost Soul Crush damage.
-I'm going for the transfer kill on Wyvern. Too slow otherwise. Probably with Arngrim/Kraad/Dylan/Lezard as my party (I'm guessing that if a character is launched and then attacked with a knockback effect, the knockback is increased).
-I then release Kraad with Striking Sword and Richelle with Hildr's Sword (also stack armor to try and get some Ambrosia). At which point I snatch up the Kraadicator and the Expert's Experience. This early on, I'm not sure whether to use the Rose Gems and Fencer's Familiarity to make things easier or to save them for the very late game.

That's all I know so far. Here's some other things I'm examining:
-I plan on getting Spirit Control and Double Edge for Rufus. He will use the Doublecross and only the Doublecross when it becomes available. And he only needs to be level 25 by the end.
-I may get Phyress/Ehrde the Heat Up skill and use them in place of Rufus until he gets his second Soul Crush - at which point I'd put Phyress/Ehrde second.
-I'm counting on getting whatever Heavy Warrior is in Palace of the Venerated Dragon - I'll only skip them if I get lucky and draw Zunde on the way to Surt's Volcano Caverns.
-I expect quite a bit of weapon switching during various fights in the run - though since you can only switch one weapon at a time, my strongest character will be the one that switches weapons. That will start as early as the second Evolver fight.
-I'm getting two mages, Mithra included - my second mage will probably be Woltar/Alm. They will only ever get the Dragonlore and Deluge Scepter, both of which will be released for items to give to Phyress/Ehrde. I may be conned into getting a third mage (Psoron/Farant, since they're less off the path than Khanon) and releasing them with the Ether Scepter.
-The latest part where I can expect to restart for bad luck is Palace of the Venerated Dragon. I need either a Brilliant Peacemaker or a Dragon Rib for this to work, and also need a Bloody Patch.
-I'm contemplating going for the tri-Emblem - having near-max fire resist for the final couple of bosses would help.

I would really like some critique.

Okay, as some people might have heard, I've been playing through the game on 1-crystal difficulty.

What some people won't know is that I'm also doing some planning for the single-segment run I promised at one point to do.  This is going to be a pain to plan, so I'm starting now in the hopes that I can have the thing planned by the time I finish several other runs.

Here's a slight update on how I think it'd go:
-Play Royal Underground Path as normal.  I want Richelle and Kraad - hoo boy, that'll be a fun one.
-Fight Ballistic Rhino with Dylan, Kraad, and Rufus, as my segmented run does.
-Before entering Dipan's castle, buy Two-Handed Swords as my segmented run does.
-Go through the basement and fight Primorial Ooze with Dylan and Kraad, again like my segmented run.
-Get a Fish Scales in Kythena Plains as normal.  Here's the first change - I also need to try for a Pact Chain, to get Unholy Purifier (for Dragon Zombie).  I'm not pursuing this one heavily, however - if I don't get it, I don't get it.
-In Serdberg, I fight until Kraad and Richelle reach release level.  Having a Thunderbreath Core (for Descaling Might) would be helpful but not critical.  Getting a Great Eagle Heart is important however.
==Here's where my first dilemma occurs.  Do I face Crust Golem for the Gandeeva, or do I try to get a Koboldapult and three Feathers for the Supreme Crossbow?  The latter is definitely better, but quite luck-dependent.  I have to get one of these two, because my current plans for the single-segment run rely on Soul Crushes and the next chance I have for an SC-capable bow isn't until Palace of the Venerated Dragon (my next certain opportunity to get an SC-capable bow is Chapter 4).  Note that if I face Crust Golem, I'm certainly trying to knock loose a Blade Claw - it'll allow me to work on some skills sooner with other characters, PLUS it's an easy early way to boost Soul Crush damage.
-I'm going for the transfer kill on Wyvern.  Too slow otherwise.  Probably with Arngrim/Kraad/Dylan/Lezard as my party (I'm guessing that if a character is launched and then attacked with a knockback effect, the knockback is increased).
-I then release Kraad with Striking Sword and Richelle with Hildr's Sword (also stack armor to try and get some Ambrosia).  At which point I snatch up the Kraadicator and the Expert's Experience.  This early on, I'm not sure whether to use the Rose Gems and Fencer's Familiarity to make things easier or to save them for the very late game.

That's all I know so far.  Here's some other things I'm examining:
-I plan on getting Spirit Control and Double Edge for Rufus.  He will use the Doublecross and only the Doublecross when it becomes available.  And he only needs to be level 25 by the end.
-I may get Phyress/Ehrde the Heat Up skill and use them in place of Rufus until he gets his second Soul Crush - at which point I'd put Phyress/Ehrde second.
-I'm counting on getting whatever Heavy Warrior is in Palace of the Venerated Dragon - I'll only skip them if I get lucky and draw Zunde on the way to Surt's Volcano Caverns.
-I expect quite a bit of weapon switching during various fights in the run - though since you can only switch one weapon at a time, my strongest character will be the one that switches weapons.  That will start as early as the second Evolver fight.
-I'm getting two mages, Mithra included - my second mage will probably be Woltar/Alm.  They will only ever get the Dragonlore and Deluge Scepter, both of which will be released for items to give to Phyress/Ehrde.  I may be conned into getting a third mage (Psoron/Farant, since they're less off the path than Khanon) and releasing them with the Ether Scepter.
-The latest part where I can expect to restart for bad luck is Palace of the Venerated Dragon.  I need either a Brilliant Peacemaker or a Dragon Rib for this to work, and also need a Bloody Patch.
-I'm contemplating going for the tri-Emblem - having near-max fire resist for the final couple of bosses would help.

I would really like some critique.

tri-Ace Fanboy

2007-09-09 01:45:47 am

Direct Assault!

Quote:

-Play Royal Underground Path as normal. I want Richelle and Kraad - hoo boy, that'll be a fun one.

Who gets the Expert's Experience? Rufus and Mithra are the only ones who really benefit from it but I don't think it's worth it.

Quote:

-Fight Ballistic Rhino with Dylan, Kraad, and Rufus, as my segmented run does.

Why do you need Rufus? It's not hard to get a DA with my method, and Kraad needs the experience.

Quote:

-Get a Fish Scales in Kythena Plains as normal. Here's the first change - I also need to try for a Pact Chain, to get Unholy Purifier (for Dragon Zombie).

You can buy Blue Holy from the merchant in Coriander/Kalstad.

Quote:

==Here's where my first dilemma occurs. Do I face Crust Golem for the Gandeeva, or do I try to get a Koboldapult and three Feathers for the Supreme Crossbow?

Go for the Gandeeva. Drop rates are way too unreliable for a speed run, and the Supreme Crossbow really won't make much of a difference.

Quote:

(I'm guessing that if a character is launched and then attacked with a knockback effect, the knockback is increased).

No, it just depends on the target's weight.

Quote:

-I then release Kraad with Striking Sword and Richelle with Hildr's Sword (also stack armor to try and get some Ambrosia).

You can't get any Ambrosia until Villnore. Even so, Richelle would need Crystal Chainmail + Metal Greaves + Metal Buckler. Kraad needs Crystal Chainmail + Iron Helm + Work Boots.

Quote:

-I plan on getting Spirit Control and Double Edge for Rufus. He will use the Doublecross and only the Doublecross when it becomes available. And he only needs to be level 25 by the end.

This would help a lot against the Dragon Zombie and Arectaris, but you should skip Spirit Control for anything else. Killing Thorn won't hit other floored enemies.

Quote:

-I expect quite a bit of weapon switching during various fights in the run - though since you can only switch one weapon at a time, my strongest character will be the one that switches weapons. That will start as early as the second Evolver fight.

Why do you need this?

Quote:

-The latest part where I can expect to restart for bad luck is Palace of the Venerated Dragon. I need either a Brilliant Peacemaker or a Dragon Rib for this to work

Do they help that much in a single-segment? Fighting the Dragon Zombie more than once is very risky.

Quote:

-I'm contemplating going for the tri-Emblem - having near-max fire resist for the final couple of bosses would help.

Yeah, and it doesn't take too long to get. Don't give it to Valkyrie though, just equip her with Hrist's Mithril Plate instead. +20% to the 4 base elements, plus 50% to Holy (all of Lezard's attacks have Holy and Darkness)... plus the 20% to all elements she has naturally.

[quote]-Play Royal Underground Path as normal.  I want Richelle and Kraad - hoo boy, that'll be a fun one.[/quote]

Who gets the Expert's Experience? Rufus and Mithra are the only ones who really benefit from it but I don't think it's worth it.

[quote]-Fight Ballistic Rhino with Dylan, Kraad, and Rufus, as my segmented run does.[/quote]

Why do you need Rufus? It's not hard to get a DA with my method, and Kraad needs the experience.

[quote]-Get a Fish Scales in Kythena Plains as normal.  Here's the first change - I also need to try for a Pact Chain, to get Unholy Purifier (for Dragon Zombie).[/quote]

You can buy Blue Holy from the merchant in Coriander/Kalstad.

[quote]==Here's where my first dilemma occurs.  Do I face Crust Golem for the Gandeeva, or do I try to get a Koboldapult and three Feathers for the Supreme Crossbow?[/quote]

Go for the Gandeeva. Drop rates are way too unreliable for a speed run, and the Supreme Crossbow really won't make much of a difference.

[quote](I'm guessing that if a character is launched and then attacked with a knockback effect, the knockback is increased).[/quote]

No, it just depends on the target's weight.

[quote]-I then release Kraad with Striking Sword and Richelle with Hildr's Sword (also stack armor to try and get some Ambrosia). [/quote]

You can't get any Ambrosia until Villnore. Even so, Richelle would need Crystal Chainmail + Metal Greaves + Metal Buckler. Kraad needs Crystal Chainmail + Iron Helm + Work Boots.

[quote]-I plan on getting Spirit Control and Double Edge for Rufus.  He will use the Doublecross and only the Doublecross when it becomes available.  And he only needs to be level 25 by the end.[/quote]

This would help a lot against the Dragon Zombie and Arectaris, but you should skip Spirit Control for anything else. Killing Thorn won't hit other floored enemies.

[quote]-I expect quite a bit of weapon switching during various fights in the run - though since you can only switch one weapon at a time, my strongest character will be the one that switches weapons.  That will start as early as the second Evolver fight.[/quote]

Why do you need this?

[quote]-The latest part where I can expect to restart for bad luck is Palace of the Venerated Dragon.  I need either a Brilliant Peacemaker or a Dragon Rib for this to work[/quote]

Do they help that much in a single-segment? Fighting the Dragon Zombie more than once is very risky.

[quote]-I'm contemplating going for the tri-Emblem - having near-max fire resist for the final couple of bosses would help.[/quote]

Yeah, and it doesn't take too long to get. Don't give it to Valkyrie though, just equip her with Hrist's Mithril Plate instead. +20% to the 4 base elements, plus 50% to Holy (all of Lezard's attacks have Holy and Darkness)... plus the 20% to all elements she has naturally.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-09-09 03:18:20 am

2007-09-09 03:14:49 am

Never give up!

Quote:

Who gets the Expert's Experience? Rufus and Mithra are the only ones who really benefit from it but I don't think it's worth it.

Rufus is one possibility. Since Phyress/Ehrde's in my plan, they're the other possibility (they'd gain 7 or 8 levels from it, and that might help at the point I get them).

Quote:

Why do you need Rufus? It's not hard to get a DA with my method, and Kraad needs the experience.

For some reason in the segmented run, once the tail's gone, I couldn't get Dylan to hit anything but the side armor shield parts with Absolute Strike. Rufus's Absolute Wave hits straight and doesn't suffer that problem, plus it does comparable total damage since all four shots WILL hit.

Remember, this was before I saw your video. I'll give it a try again once it comes time to practice this and see if I can get your version to work.

Quote:

You can buy Blue Holy from the merchant in Coriander/Kalstad.

Alright, I guess I skip my original idea then, since I don't see any important Unholy enemies between Kythena and even Kalstad.

Quote:

Go for the Gandeeva. Drop rates are way too unreliable for a speed run, and the Supreme Crossbow really won't make much of a difference.

Right, Gandeeva it is.

Quote:

No, it just depends on the target's weight.

Okay, so who else besides the three heavy fighters available at that point can launch? If it's no one else I'll probably just keep Lezard in and leave him farther back as a security measure.

Quote:

You can't get any Ambrosia until Villnore. Even so, Richelle would need Crystal Chainmail + Metal Greaves + Metal Buckler. Kraad needs Crystal Chainmail + Iron Helm + Work Boots.

Hmmm.... if I don't actually NEED Ambrosia at this point (I probably won't, thinking about it again), then yeah, I'll forget about giving them armor.

And Villnore would be right after getting the Ancient Forest sidequest if I remember it right, so if I DID go for the Ambrosia I'd get the Expert's Experience when returning to Coriander to get my Might Potion.

Quote:

This would help a lot against the Dragon Zombie and Arectaris, but you should skip Spirit Control for anything else. Killing Thorn won't hit other floored enemies.

The plan against other enemies is for Rufus to launch his attack first, and then have everyone else follow up and land their blows before his attack actually lands (Killing Thorn takes enough time between attack start and attack hit that other characters can get their blows in). Ideally, one of their attacks will knock the enemy into Rufus's attack. I'll need to experiment to see what works best in this regard.

Quote:

Why do you need this?

In trying to come up with a good answer, I realize I'm only making myself sound foolish. At the very least I will need to switch between the two weapons several times - I'd use the Kraadicator when breaking enemies and Flamberge for bosses (except Dragon Zombie because I need to try for the Dragon Rib). Maybe I don't need to switch in battle like I was saying there.

Quote:

Do they help that much in a single-segment? Fighting the Dragon Zombie more than once is very risky.

I'd only ever try it once. We'll find out when I start testing, but I may need the extra attack power later since I won't have Wrath of Forcefulness (I won't even touch that sealstone).

Okay, so maybe it's not worth restarting over, but it's not yet worth abandoning either IMO.

[quote]Who gets the Expert's Experience? Rufus and Mithra are the only ones who really benefit from it but I don't think it's worth it.[/quote]

Rufus is one possibility.  Since Phyress/Ehrde's in my plan, they're the other possibility (they'd gain 7 or 8 levels from it, and that might help at the point I get them).

[quote]Why do you need Rufus? It's not hard to get a DA with my method, and Kraad needs the experience.[/quote]

For some reason in the segmented run, once the tail's gone, I couldn't get Dylan to hit anything but the side armor shield parts with Absolute Strike.  Rufus's Absolute Wave hits straight and doesn't suffer that problem, plus it does comparable total damage since all four shots WILL hit.

Remember, this was before I saw your video.  I'll give it a try again once it comes time to practice this and see if I can get your version to work.

[quote]You can buy Blue Holy from the merchant in Coriander/Kalstad.[/quote]

Alright, I guess I skip my original idea then, since I don't see any important Unholy enemies between Kythena and even Kalstad.

[quote]Go for the Gandeeva. Drop rates are way too unreliable for a speed run, and the Supreme Crossbow really won't make much of a difference.[/quote]

Right, Gandeeva it is.

[quote]No, it just depends on the target's weight.[/quote]

Okay, so who else besides the three heavy fighters available at that point can launch?  If it's no one else I'll probably just keep Lezard in and leave him farther back as a security measure.

[quote]You can't get any Ambrosia until Villnore. Even so, Richelle would need Crystal Chainmail + Metal Greaves + Metal Buckler. Kraad needs Crystal Chainmail + Iron Helm + Work Boots.[/quote]

Hmmm.... if I don't actually NEED Ambrosia at this point (I probably won't, thinking about it again), then yeah, I'll forget about giving them armor.

And Villnore would be right after getting the Ancient Forest sidequest if I remember it right, so if I DID go for the Ambrosia I'd get the Expert's Experience when returning to Coriander to get my Might Potion.

[quote]This would help a lot against the Dragon Zombie and Arectaris, but you should skip Spirit Control for anything else. Killing Thorn won't hit other floored enemies.[/quote]

The plan against other enemies is for Rufus to launch his attack first, and then have everyone else follow up and land their blows before his attack actually lands (Killing Thorn takes enough time between attack start and attack hit that other characters can get their blows in).  Ideally, one of their attacks will knock the enemy into Rufus's attack.  I'll need to experiment to see what works best in this regard.

[quote]Why do you need this?[/quote]

In trying to come up with a good answer, I realize I'm only making myself sound foolish.  At the very least I will need to switch between the two weapons several times - I'd use the Kraadicator when breaking enemies and Flamberge for bosses (except Dragon Zombie because I need to try for the Dragon Rib).  Maybe I don't need to switch in battle like I was saying there.

[quote]Do they help that much in a single-segment? Fighting the Dragon Zombie more than once is very risky.[/quote]

I'd only ever try it once.  We'll find out when I start testing, but I may need the extra attack power later since I won't have Wrath of Forcefulness (I won't even touch that sealstone).

Okay, so maybe it's not worth restarting over, but it's not yet worth abandoning either IMO.

tri-Ace Fanboy

2007-09-09 09:36:24 pm

Direct Assault!

Quote:

Rufus is one possibility. Since Phyress/Ehrde's in my plan, they're the other possibility (they'd gain 7 or 8 levels from it, and that might help at the point I get them).

Rufus sounds better, because then you increase the party's average level before getting Phyress/Ehrde, which benefits them as well.

Quote:

And Villnore would be right after getting the Ancient Forest sidequest if I remember it right, so if I DID go for the Ambrosia I'd get the Expert's Experience when returning to Coriander to get my Might Potion.

You can go to Villnore before unlocking the Ancient Forest, then go to Coriander and get the Expert's Experience.

Quote:

The plan against other enemies is for Rufus to launch his attack first, and then have everyone else follow up and land their blows before his attack actually lands (Killing Thorn takes enough time between attack start and attack hit that other characters can get their blows in). Ideally, one of their attacks will knock the enemy into Rufus's attack. I'll need to experiment to see what works best in this regard.

That will be good for SC chains, but Spirit Control doesn't help in this case. The enemy must be on the floor while Killing Thorn hits for the purple gems to appear.

[quote]Rufus is one possibility.  Since Phyress/Ehrde's in my plan, they're the other possibility (they'd gain 7 or 8 levels from it, and that might help at the point I get them).[/quote]

Rufus sounds better, because then you increase the party's average level before getting Phyress/Ehrde, which benefits them as well.

[quote]And Villnore would be right after getting the Ancient Forest sidequest if I remember it right, so if I DID go for the Ambrosia I'd get the Expert's Experience when returning to Coriander to get my Might Potion.[/quote]

You can go to Villnore before unlocking the Ancient Forest, then go to Coriander and get the Expert's Experience.

[quote]The plan against other enemies is for Rufus to launch his attack first, and then have everyone else follow up and land their blows before his attack actually lands (Killing Thorn takes enough time between attack start and attack hit that other characters can get their blows in).  Ideally, one of their attacks will knock the enemy into Rufus's attack.  I'll need to experiment to see what works best in this regard.[/quote]

That will be good for SC chains, but Spirit Control doesn't help in this case. The enemy must be on the floor while Killing Thorn hits for the purple gems to appear.

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-09-12 04:24:46 am

2007-09-10 02:18:27 am

Never give up!

I keep forgetting about Spirit Control not helping with AP-related gems for some reason. How many times have we gone over this?

I'll probably have Rufus try to learn Spirit Control right before having other characters learn Magician Slayer or somesuch. Although it's not really high-priority.

Anyway, some other notes:
-Ancient Forest is being handled as my segmented run does - I'll have Dylan use the Kraadicator and attack the Griffon from behind, rather than poisoning and doing a runaround like Alkaiser did. I MUST fight a Toxic Flower and knock loose a Poison Seed here. If I get a chance at a Brilliant Peacemaker I may try.
-As said before, I plan on getting Phyress or Ehrde in Audoula. Getting Ehrde won't kill - the runes for Psychosoma are pretty easy to get, after all. Plus I'm not sure how much it'd help Ehrde.
-My planning will probably prepare for getting Dyn in Sahma Desert. I need to know how best to adjust if I get Aaron, though - adjusting for Zunde is easy and I don't count on getting him. Also, if I get stuck in a battle here and there's a Giant Scarab in the enemy ranks, I'm going to try to break its pincers. If I knock loose an Insect Claw, Dragonscrypt becomes so much more bearable because I won't need to worry about Red Slashing runes there.
-Surt's Volcano Caverns is pretty easy.
-For Evolver, I plan on using Tyrith/Celes, Leone, Rufus, and Aaron/Dyn/Zunde, equipped with two Walloon Swords, the Gandeeva, and the Kraadicator. The first fight goes for just normal hits. In the second fight, I switch to the Flamberge and rely on Soul Crushes (Rufus is third, the heavy fighter is last, but I don't know whether to put Leone or Tyrith/Celes first. It'll depend on who's stronger - the stronger one will go second). I'd equip stronger light swords and bows, but you can only switch one weapon at a time, and the longer I take, the better the chance that Evolver will catch up and crush me, so I'm only counting on one weapon switch.

(Edit: Whoops... caught my mistake. Just remembered that Phyress/Ehrde can't go third without learning Heat Up, a skill I don't count on getting, so they can't be in the group that fights Evolver. The other option is to give Heat Up to Tyrith/Celes or Leone, since for a decent period of time only light warriors can learn Heat Up, but I think getting it for Leone would be a waste since you can't use her after Chapter 3, and having Hrist - who comes with all of Leone's skills, for story reasons - use it is pointless since Rufus has his better Soul Crush by then. Tyrith/Celes just becomes too weak to bother.)

I keep forgetting about Spirit Control not helping with AP-related gems for some reason.  How many times have we gone over this?

I'll probably have Rufus try to learn Spirit Control right before having other characters learn Magician Slayer or somesuch.  Although it's not really high-priority.

Anyway, some other notes:
-Ancient Forest is being handled as my segmented run does - I'll have Dylan use the Kraadicator and attack the Griffon from behind, rather than poisoning and doing a runaround like Alkaiser did.  I MUST fight a Toxic Flower and knock loose a Poison Seed here.  If I get a chance at a Brilliant Peacemaker I may try.
-As said before, I plan on getting Phyress or Ehrde in Audoula.  Getting Ehrde won't kill - the runes for Psychosoma are pretty easy to get, after all.  Plus I'm not sure how much it'd help Ehrde.
-My planning will probably prepare for getting Dyn in Sahma Desert.  I need to know how best to adjust if I get Aaron, though - adjusting for Zunde is easy and I don't count on getting him.  Also, if I get stuck in a battle here and there's a Giant Scarab in the enemy ranks, I'm going to try to break its pincers.  If I knock loose an Insect Claw, Dragonscrypt becomes so much more bearable because I won't need to worry about Red Slashing runes there.
-Surt's Volcano Caverns is pretty easy.
-For Evolver, I plan on using Tyrith/Celes, Leone, Rufus, and Aaron/Dyn/Zunde, equipped with two Walloon Swords, the Gandeeva, and the Kraadicator.  The first fight goes for just normal hits.  In the second fight, I switch to the Flamberge and rely on Soul Crushes (Rufus is third, the heavy fighter is last, but I don't know whether to put Leone or Tyrith/Celes first.  It'll depend on who's stronger - the stronger one will go second).  I'd equip stronger light swords and bows, but you can only switch one weapon at a time, and the longer I take, the better the chance that Evolver will catch up and crush me, so I'm only counting on one weapon switch.

(Edit: Whoops... caught my mistake.  Just remembered that Phyress/Ehrde can't go third without learning Heat Up, a skill I don't count on getting, so they can't be in the group that fights Evolver.  The other option is to give Heat Up to Tyrith/Celes or Leone, since for a decent period of time only light warriors can learn Heat Up, but I think getting it for Leone would be a waste since you can't use her after Chapter 3, and having Hrist - who comes with all of Leone's skills, for story reasons - use it is pointless since Rufus has his better Soul Crush by then.  Tyrith/Celes just becomes too weak to bother.)

AquaTiger

Edit history:

AquaTiger: 2007-09-14 10:35:44 pm

2007-09-14 09:37:42 pm

Never give up!

Quote:

Huh. Turns out that Kraad doesn't need the Double-check to reach level 6 against the Wyvern and now I don't know where to use it.

I just thought of something that's related to this issue.

Are you going to have Dylan use the Beast Bludgeon critical still when fighting Griffon? If you are, see if you can fit Dylan into the Wyvern fight and still get Kraad to release level. If this can be accomplished you can reduce the number of fights you need in Ancient Forest (you need one to get a Poison Seed anyway, unless you're planning on getting Red Weakness elsewhere) to learn Beast Bludgeon.

As for where to use the Double-check? Do you want Zunde to join at:
1) A higher level to make him start strong, so the Evolver fight is still bearable? Two ideas in this case. One is Griffon, the other is Kraken. In both cases, it's to boost the party level so Zunde joins higher.
2) A lower level to get skills for him faster? If THIS is what you want, wait until maybe Ull, since by that point Zunde should have all the skills he needs. Push this later if you don't expect him to learn Magician Slayer by then, or perhaps put it earlier if he learns that skill (which I predict is the last one he will learn) sooner.

Also, are you going to try to knock loose an Insect Claw from enemies in Sahma Desert? (I didn't know one was there when I did my run, and I think I had to wait until Dragonscrypt for a Red Slashing rune that Zunde could use. Waiting that long may still be viable though because that way you don't have to manipulate two things in the same segment, something that, while possibly a bit faster, would be aggravating to no end.)

Edit: And if you're still in Serdberg (unless you're keeping this project's progress secret, you probably would be), you may want to take a moment to knock loose a Great Eagle Heart. You might be able to do this in Ancient Forest too but I recommend doing it in Serdberg. It's basically half a Power Bangle (just not stackable like Power Bangles are), and when combined with Dylan's and then Zunde's high-multiplier attacks, that can save time on some fights.

[quote]Huh. Turns out that Kraad doesn't need the Double-check to reach level 6 against the Wyvern and now I don't know where to use it.[/quote]

I just thought of something that's related to this issue.

Are you going to have Dylan use the Beast Bludgeon critical still when fighting Griffon?  If you are, see if you can fit Dylan into the Wyvern fight and still get Kraad to release level.  If this can be accomplished you can reduce the number of fights you need in Ancient Forest (you need one to get a Poison Seed anyway, unless you're planning on getting Red Weakness elsewhere) to learn Beast Bludgeon.

As for where to use the Double-check?  Do you want Zunde to join at:
1) A higher level to make him start strong, so the Evolver fight is still bearable?  Two ideas in this case.  One is Griffon, the other is Kraken.  In both cases, it's to boost the party level so Zunde joins higher.
2) A lower level to get skills for him faster?  If THIS is what you want, wait until maybe Ull, since by that point Zunde should have all the skills he needs.  Push this later if you don't expect him to learn Magician Slayer by then, or perhaps put it earlier if he learns that skill (which I predict is the last one he will learn) sooner.

Also, are you going to try to knock loose an Insect Claw from enemies in Sahma Desert?  (I didn't know one was there when I did my run, and I think I had to wait until Dragonscrypt for a Red Slashing rune that Zunde could use.  Waiting that long may still be viable though because that way you don't have to manipulate two things in the same segment, something that, while possibly a bit faster, would be aggravating to no end.)

Edit: And if you're still in Serdberg (unless you're keeping this project's progress secret, you probably would be), you may want to take a moment to knock loose a Great Eagle Heart.  You might be able to do this in Ancient Forest too but I recommend doing it in Serdberg.  It's basically half a Power Bangle (just not stackable like Power Bangles are), and when combined with Dylan's and then Zunde's high-multiplier attacks, that can save time on some fights.