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Going back to what Zero shift mentioned: does anyone know how the Japanese version plays?
Eyeballing the numbers in that TAS, it looks like Raging Ache is 20% instead of 10% and that each chain uses the previous chain's damage in the calculation rather than the initial attack.

On the other hand, I'm liking using the crossbow; I know that it is no-where near as fast as the other weapons, but it feels so much safer since I can attack earlier.
Okay, I finally finished a playthrough: 4:43:45 RTA (In game timer 3:39, over an hour of me dying...!)
This solidifies for me that getting less than 3 hours will make me happy, I don't see myself ever coming close to that 2 hour mark you have.

Part A: http://www.twitch.tv/dak_rey/v/13407472
Part B: http://www.twitch.tv/dak_rey/v/13408293
Well after a few things I've set a new time:
http://www.twitch.tv/dak_rey/v/14869898
Real time: 2:45:25
Game time: 2:41
Deaths: 3

The biggest time-save was simply playing the NTSC version on my PSP with fast disc load speed enabled, whereas before I was playing PAL on my Vita without fast disc load speed. I'm confident that with more practice I could get this below 2:30.
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Nice!  I watched until the cathedral, I'll finish watching later.  You can definitely push that time down to sub 2:30, once you get better with the movements and enemy evasion that'll really help.  Things can snowball very quickly in any given room resulting in lost time as I'm sure you've noticed.  I'm still not sure if I'd opt for the Seventh Heaven, although it does have that ridiculous range advantage.  If I have trouble finishing runs with the Fandango/Magnolia Frau then I'll give it a try.  I still haven't done attempts using Phantom Pain/Instill tactics, because that video still doesn't sit well with me.  I took a screen grab and I'm hoping someone here who knows a spot of Japanese can help translate the chain abilities selected.  This was taken right before the Golem battle, one I'm sure is Raging Ache but the other well idk.  Whatever it is, it doesn't depend on the first hit for damage.  It could be that the Japanese version maybe gets Phantom Pain sooner? 

In order, it looks like the abilities in that screenshot are called Heavy Shot, Gain Life, Raging Ache, Gain Damage (Temper), Gain Phantom (Instill), Numbing Claw and Dullness Bind (Dulling Impact). Doesn't look like Ashley has Phantom Pain yet. This site has a list of all the battle abilities and their effects (in Japanese ofc but google translate works well enough): http://vagrantstory.retromeme.nobody.jp/ability.html I don't know much about Vagrant Story's mechanics, but Raging Ache is definitely 20% in the JP version and it looks like using Phantom Pain drains your PP to zero? So there may be other version differences at work here. If it drains your PP on use they may not even bother getting Phantom Pain.

This game's really fun, I gotta finish it someday. It seems pretty brutal to run though; good luck to all of you!
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Thanks for the translation and link, on the surface it appears as though both versions are functionally identical.  Phantom Pain does in fact drain to zero, that chain ability the TAS uses:  doesn't depend on base damage and seems to start at a high damage value that decreases as the chain count continues until it approaches zero, then the combo switches over to Heavy Shot seemingly.  There's definitely something weird going on as none of the Chain Abilities have that property from any description.  I'm thinking it's some kind of mechanics exploit that may only work with Seventh Heaven?  I think I'll play around with it and try to reproduce the effect with  that crossbow.  Hopefully it's something that carries over to other weapons and isn't Japanese exclusive per se.  A good starting point will be to play with those chain abilities selected...I'm sure I'll recognize which ability it is visually/audibly when I look at the video again and make comparisons.  If I could get this to work then boss battles will become more trivial as getting 15+ chain combos consistently won't be necessary anymore.
So I have been setting up my emulator save file to practice new game + runs.  While farming (D) Lug Crossbows in the Limestone Quarry, I was dissatisfied with the drop rate.  I received an armor drop two tries after saving.  When I reloaded the save, I got a different drop on that second try.  Reloading again, I got an armor drop on the first try and a crossbow drop on the second.

Hypothesis: The RNG for what drops is re-cast each time I load, but whether or not something drops stays similar or same.  I will try to test this out some more.  I have 3 more crossbows to farm.
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Playing this again and incorporating the Phantom Pain strategy, completed a ng rta in 2:12 (in-game time).  Still not sure what exploit that TAS is using, but the Phantom Pain route is definitely viable although my completion time is 5 mins. slower than my pb.  Lots of slop, I somehow managed to push through the run.  It's surprising how in spite of the relatively high usage of Cure Bulbs and Magic Wards as well as botching several rooms and the box puzzles before and during Temple of Kiltia, I was still within reach of a new pb.  The lowlight was certainly when I somehow forgot the silver key(!) and had to backtrack my way to the Minotaur Lord room.  I lost a few minutes there alone eating attacks along the way and solving the puzzle again!  It goes to show how potent Phantom Pain really is.

There is an adjustment to be made with respect to timing the combos after building up pp with Instill/Raging Ache and then releasing the Phantom Pain.  I kept dropping the string going from Phantom Pain/Raging Ache back to Raging Ache/Instill so there's improvement to be made on that end too.  I think I could push this very close to 2:00 or below that with efficient battle point racking, better execution, and of course better luck some boss fights were pretty subpar.  Once I beat my pb then I'll transition to the Magnolia Frau, the only time range has been a real issue is going against the tall Marid/Ifrit/Djinn elementals and Bandit's Hollow maybe.  Guildenstern I/II barely get in one attack if any at all.  If that exploit in the TAS is better understood then that would push the time down even more significantly.  It sucks that I don't stream, but my friend is going to show me how to build a rig so that'll be a thing eventually.  In the meantime I can shake off this rust and pour in attempts.
Edit history:
Riskbreaker Y: 2016-01-03 10:02:39 pm
Riskbreaker Y: 2016-01-03 10:01:35 pm
Riskbreaker Y: 2016-01-03 10:01:22 pm
berserker status
Alright, got a new pb!  NG rta category of course.  I'm not bothering with conventional timing methods just going with in-game time.

2:03:xx (in-game time); 3 minute improvement !

This is a typical time using Instill/Phantom Pain tactics, there were some rough patches that cost me the sub 2 hr time.  There was a segment of the run, starting roughly from the Limestone Quarry, where I was botching the transition between Raging Ache/Phantom Pain to Raging Ache/Instill so instead of cycling between them I would just do one pair through the combo.  I didn't clean this up until the Great Cathedral bosses so this was a loss of efficiency.  The other part where I struggled was the lever room in the Great Cathedral.  Fuck that jump.  Idk what the hell you have to do to make Ashley consistently grab that ledge.  Finally at the end I got slapped with a Stun Cloud by Guildenstern I that costed me the additional time of casting another Magic Ward (he went down on the subsequent connection of Raging Ache -___-  ).  Usually I go on these 1-round kill sprees that save time, but the only ones that come to mind immediately are a 30 hit kill on the Minotaur Lord and another 27 hit combo on the Arch Dragon. 

All in all I'd say with tighter execution and efficient BP/PP racking this could go sub 2 hrs. with the Fandango.  I don't think I'm sticking with the sword any longer though because at this point I believe a Magnolia Frau run with similar execution will result in a 3-5 minute improvement.  With practice I could get this below that mark easily and could even bark at 1:50-1:55 range.  It irks me to no end that I don't understand that exploit the Japanese TAS uses, but at the very least I'll be well practiced if and when it is better understood.  I'll post the run soon since I'm eschewing the Fandango for the Magnolia Frau so that will require some practice before full fledged attempts.  Funny how as the times improve I only become more critical of the mistakes made. 

Making good on my New Year's resolution of speedrunning more Grin
And I'd do it again...
Nice work on the PB RiskbreakerY Cheesy I watched your 2:07 RTA the other day, noting your new love of Raging Ache, Dulling Impact and Paralysis Pulse to pacify enemies.

Once again I'm trying to derust my casual skills by playing through the game, this time I'm streaming the run though to incentivise me to stick with it. Emulating the NTSC version until I can get the hardware for physical NTSC runs. Last night I encountered Duane again and I swear I've never had as much trouble with his Tier 3 chain evade status than in this casual run.

I found the best strategy for him is to kill Sarjik then hide around the corner at the bottom of the slope, which seemed to trigger Bejart and Duane to both run down towards me. Running up the slope to Duane was inconsistent since it seemed to give him ample opportunities to get off an Explosion Lvl.1 and sometimes back-peddle to get more than one off, which is annoying since timing Fireproof is quite the task against it.

Also, bunnyhop technique, let's discuss this beast.

It seems the most consistent way of doing it is to get a sort of rhythm going over general button smashing, this also mitigates accidentally getting a Too Fast with whichever DA you have set to Square should an enemy get in an attack. Right? Or do you folks literally just mash the jump button without mercy and hope? Cheesy
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Thanks!  I thought I recorded it, but apparently it was not connected properly so now I have to beat this new pb asap!  I wanted to review it oh well, I'm sure I can do better as previously mentioned.

Paralysis Pulse/Dulling Impact works well against the Quicksilvers since they drain your hp/mp and tend to carry silver weapons (you cannot Impact Guard light affinity attacks) as well as the Gremlins.  It's a safety strategy for consistency otherwise they will kill you a lot or you'll wind up using too many Magic Wards.

Duane is a tricky one.  He can easily add a couple minutes to the run alone due to his absurdly high chain evasion defense.  I find the most consistent way to defeat him is to sheathe your weapon immediately after the Dragon in Sanctuary (to drop your Risk) and then expending a Vera Root in order reduce your Risk down to the 50-60 range.  At that point you have a 50/50 chance or greater to land an initial hit against him.  You repeatedly strike and just chain with Raging Ache just in case you land a critical hit.  So you either drop him with repeated whacks which on average should take him down well before Explosion lv 1 or if you land a critical hit you complete the chain in spite of his high chain evasion.  Sometimes you get shit luck and miss a lot of the hits, but I find that on average he either goes down at a decent pace or very quickly with that critical hit good luck.

Bunnyhopping is a combination of timing/rhythm and button mashing.  You shouldn't have a Defense Ability mapped to the jump button if you're going the Phantom Pain/Instill route as you're taking full advantage of Magic Wards and won't unlock additional Defense Abilities until late game; otherwise, when it comes to special attacks you pray that it is physical-based so that you can Impact Guard.  Ward should go on triangle in that case so that you don't erroneously get a 'too fast!' and lose the run.  There are a lot of rooms where I know how many steps I have to take (1/2 step, full step, two steps) before jumping or navigating movement over ledges and so on.  It's a thing that comes with familiarity and repetition.  For example, in the Snowfly Forest I deliberately jump into the first tree as a delay then step through and jump so that the Basilisk is lured over the ledge.  On the flipside, I mash immediately when closing in with the Earth Dragon to prevent an Acid Breath attack.  It varies from room to room, you just need to keep in mind that jumping in the air delays the (!) from appearing over the enemies' head.  You can manipulate enemy movement by going over ledges and such, because remember they follow your path so kiting them over obstacles delays them.  Similarly to the same way you time button inputs for chaining, you should get used to timing your jumps deliberately and to maximize the distance between you and your enemy.  That way you develop a sense of when an enemy 'engages' you and you can switch over from "get the hell away from me" to timing your Impact Guard.  Generally, you just have to adapt to every room and then mash to approach bosses. 

There's a lot of weird little things like that at work to keep in mind.  For instance, you know how after a missed chain you can't engage an enemy with target sphere immediately?  You hear a sound that prevents an infinite loop chain, but if you stutter step a couple times you can gauge whether or not you can attack again without accidentally missing the Impact Guard and dying.  My button lay-out is generally DA:  Impact Guard (circle), Ward, (triangle), magic defense* (square) CA:  Temper/Raging Ache (square), Heavy Shot/Instill/Paralysis Pulse (circle), Phantom Pain/Dulling Impact (triangle).  At the end of the day you use what works best for you, but this is my preferred set up.  Good luck with your attempts!  I'm going to practice with the Magnolia Frau and get that elusive sub 2 hr run soon hopefully!
And I'd do it again...
So! I've finally completed my casual run, which in turn means I've actually finally completed this game myself for the first time.

Overall, I felt the Magnolia Frau performed well but there were some situations where Range 2 really hindered proceedings and it seems to make Guildenstern very difficult if you can't chain him down in one or two chains. To the point where I switched to a Lug Crossbow for Guildenstern and one-shot him. I'm pondering testing out the damage of Seventh Heaven on another casual NG run at some point, whilst I use my emulator NG+ file to learn the route for speedrunning.

Also, I can see why you all prefer running NG+ now, although surely a NG+ run would require some sort of level playing field, to the point where the only viable option would be to require max stats across the board? Since, even if two people ran NG+, stat roulette and whether they side-tracked for additional Elixir would unbalance stats from the start. With each completion stacking more stats, it means an NG+17 run will naturally best an NG+6 run. The more damage that can be shrugged off and the more you can dish out the better.
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I prefer running ng as it's more gratifying to get a completion.  Keep in mind some rooms have different enemy layouts in ng+.  You would only need to increase your str until you're able to one-shot the Arch Dragon and Guildenstern II since your agi will get to the point where everything misses anyway.  It takes like a dozen playthroughs or so at least to accumulate enough str and ultimizing the Arbalest (has greatest range). 
And I'd do it again...
NG does seem like it'd be the most enjoyable to watch and conquer aye, since enemies seem a lot more threatening and a messy fight can soak a load of time.

Sale of the Sword was the most daunting room during my playthrough, the Maggy Frau (as I lovingly referred to it) puts Quicksilvers down pretty fast but I died in that room twice due to a Silence removing my Magic Ward and then the Lich casting Radiant Surge Lv.1, spells are so difficult to time defenses against. Fortunately you don't need the Stock Sigil in a run, but the room is basically a mirror of Weapons Not Allowed where the Iron Key is picked up. Your strat is to kill the Lich then pacify the Quicksilvers with Paralysis/Silence.

I guess it is too risky just to run for the chest with say, Demonscale to block any physical attack the Quicksilver by the chest platform uses? Albeit this would be reliant on the Lich teleporting away to the opposite end of the room when you enter, allowing you time to grab the chest and then by the time it teleports closer to you, you'd be pretty much out of the door.

During my Lug Crossbow attempt of Guildenstern II, I managed to chain him repeatedly several times without him doing anything at one point which was weird, since his range and speed basically ensures that he should be able to be offensive constantly.
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That's a viable strat for the Iron Key room albeit very risky.  You still have the Quicksilvers to deal with and it's unlikely you will have unlocked Absorb Damage by then so you can't simply ignore them.  The Lich doesn't always teleport away and more often then not he'll toast you with that Radial Surge Lv. 1.  Fortunately Lichs have fairly low hp and chain evasion compared to elementals, the time lost killing that particular one is acceptable. 

Guildenstern II is actually pretty harmless especially with a Magic Ward up.  Once you get past the Arch Dragon in the Cathedral the bosses are free as long as you can seal the deal within 2-3 chains.
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So I tend to run this game in cycles, and right now I'm trying out a new speedrun category for it:  no Raging Ache/Phantom Pain chain combos.  This category pretty much emphasizes optimal usage of weapons/magic/items/accessories, which is a totally different approach than the more reflex-demanding any% route.  It is an arbitrary category, but it should be worth pointing out that this category is more along the lines of the 'traditional' playthrough.  What's more entertaining depends on the viewer, but personally, I think the any% is more entertaining due to the skill level necessary although this is a very nice change of pace.

2:57 (with saves)

Slower than the any% but surprisingly not very far off, this could easily be 15-30 mins. faster.  Here is the general weapon progression:

Fandango (Scimitar/initial; edged)--> Magnolia Frau [(S) Wizard Staff/Duane; blunt]-->

Rapier (Rapier/Sarjik; piercing)--> Angel Wing (Katana/Dark Crusader; edged)-->

Schiavona* (Schiavona/Ogre Lord; edged)--> Frost Maiden (Mjolnir/Temple of Kiltia; blunt)

Special items procured from extra chests/where:

Braveheart (gem):  Wine Cellar, Dullahan room; increase odds of landing initial hit plus str boost
Salamander Ruby (gem):  the first treasure room in Abandoned Mines B1; fire affinity
Salamander Ring (accessory):  treasure room before the Fire Elemental Boss; fire affinity
Grimoire Undine (enchanter spell):  treasure room before the Fire Elemental Boss; water affinity
Knuckle Guard (hilt):  Forest River; assemble with Rapier
Djinn Amber (gem):  Forest River; air affinity
Sylphid Ring (accessory):  Forest River; air affinity
Sylphid Topaz (gem):  Grissom/Dark Crusader area; air affinity
Demonia (gem):  Grissom/Dark Crusader area; evil class
Vera Tonic (item):  Grissom/Dark Crusader area; bigger combos
Knuckle Guard (hilt):  The Children's Hideout after Dark Elemental boss; assemble with Katana
Undine Bracelet (accessory):  The Children's Hideout after Dark Elemental boss; water affinity
Various types of armor:  previous chests, just equip them as you switch weapons to maximize defense

Special items to consider procuring:

Broad Sword (blade):  Catacombs in the same room as the Ghost mini-boss, this blade can be combined with the Katana to make an Executioner.  More Str during mid-game may be faster.

I still need to research which additional items may be worth getting but the weapons as is are good enough to beat the game with respectable base damage without needing extensive workshop synthesis.  The Schiavona dropped by the Ogre Lord is the 'Magic Bullet' for Guildenstern II, pretty interesting that zero combinations are needed to actually beat the game at a respectable time.  This is a fun route to plan compared to the "kill everything in your path" strategy that the Raging Ache/Phantom Pain techniques employ and is the closest thing to a 'natural' playthrough as possible.  I'll probably work on a segmented run of this category while I practice for the any% and Californithon that's coming up. 
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So I became interested in doing a speedrun without taking advantage of the Raging Ache/Phantom Pain exploits awhile back. It would be interesting to see the most efficient manner of inflicting damage without losing a lot of time in the workshops. The results aren't optimal, but they are surprisingly effective.


https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLj0_4Y7Tz7d0Pem-05qh_JqkLVrfceICv


[2:06:xx] 12 segments


Doing an RTA would be very difficult since there's a lot of luck involved with landing initial hits sometimes. The Braveheart gem helps tremendously in that regard but doesn't always guarantee a successful strike. I think there should be some strategies that can be used in an any% run that may prove useful. Overall, this is what a 'normal' playthrough ought to look like since it takes advantage of enemies' weaknesses for the most part. I even manage to dent Guildenstern II for an appreciable amount of damage.


This was a very fun run and I may consider speedrunning other challenge categories...in the meantime, the hunt for sub 2 hr RTA continues.
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Still no sub 2 hr RTA but getting closer.

2:02:xx IGT



Live stream attempts to come before Spring time...
berserker status
It has been awhile, I'm back at it with this game.  I will start streaming this game regularly on emulator for now (will switch back to console after I replace the original disc and get a capture device).  Derust any% sub 2 hr attempts later tonight for those interested, I doubt I'll beat my PB but if I do welp then I'll just have to hurry and get back on console for submission. 

https://www.twitch.tv/riskbreaker_y