Vagrant Story run completed! 1:59 by RiskBreakerY

2009-05-21 03:21:43 pm

Sorry about the confision on my bounty, I reread it and went WTF.

Originally it was more clear (PG 6) but I was informed that there was a sub 2 hour record at the ultimate garden. It didnt seem right to offer so much money and have a run an hour off the record.

To clarify the run does need to be sub two hours. That was my intention. But seeing how the last line doesnt make sense (from a horrible cut & paste job) Ill change it to:

New game start
$ 100 within 1 year accepted at SDA
$ 100 additional for within 6 monthes

You have untill August 23 for the 6 month bounty and February 23 for the Year. Just remeber to give yourself enough time to get it accepted.

Riskbreaker Y: I am so excited that you are running with this project (punn intended) and that are so passionate about Vagrant Story. It is all that I could hope for in offering a bounty for a game I'll never have time to do personally.

BTW - I had intended to make the bounty for a single segment Shocked

It clearly does not say that however.
I'm happy there is enough callenge getting a segmented sub 2 hour run. Wink

Sorry about the confision on my bounty, I reread it and went WTF.

Originally it was more clear (PG 6) but I was informed that there was a sub 2 hour record at the ultimate garden. It didnt seem right to offer so much money and have a run an hour off the record.

To clarify the run does need to be sub two hours. That was my intention. But seeing how the last line doesnt make sense (from a horrible cut & paste job) Ill change it to:

New game start
$ 100 within 1 year accepted at SDA
$ 100 additional for within 6 monthes

You have untill August 23 for the 6 month bounty and February 23 for the Year. Just remeber to give yourself enough time to get it accepted.

Riskbreaker Y: I am so excited that you are running with this project (punn intended) and that are so passionate about Vagrant Story. It is all that I could hope for in offering a bounty for a game I'll never have time to do personally.

BTW - I had intended to make the bounty for a single segment :o It clearly does not say that however.
I'm happy there is enough callenge getting a segmented sub 2 hour run.  ;)

Riskbreaker Y

Edit history:

Riskbreaker Y: 2009-05-21 06:19:55 pm

2009-05-21 05:02:33 pm

berserker status

Thanks Zug for the info. Do you know exactly what time the sub 2:00:00 run on Ultima Garden is? It would really help if i knew what to shoot for because i can't read the script on that page! Too bad i can't look at the run and see how exactly it was done. Now the pressure's really on!

Edit: nevermind. i found the time and it's pretty ridiculous 1:43; i don't know how this person got such a good time other than executing each enemy in one combo, optimizing luck, or segmenting like hell. this is a tall order indeed.

Second Edit: The thread that i read this in also mentioned that many of the reported times are last save so if you assume this is before the final boss then with some effort i could still be in the ballpark.

gmacd

Edit history:

gmacd: 2009-05-22 12:56:45 pm

2009-05-22 12:51:40 pm

1:43 first playthrough and 1:10 NG+. Crazy times, but there's no proof. They need a screenshot at least.

This would be a good game for a TAS. I wouldn't mind watching someone running through the game with 10 HP and 30-Hitting every boss with Raging Ache, etc.

Riskbreaker Y

Edit history:

Riskbreaker Y: 2009-05-22 01:23:51 pm

2009-05-22 01:10:05 pm

berserker status

Quote from gmacd:

1:43 first playthrough and 1:10 NG+. Crazy times, but there's no proof. They need a screenshot at least.

hahahaha, thanks for the support gmacd. I could see 1:10 NG+ with ridiculous stats and a few powerful weapons in your inventory. Your raging ache's power would be off the charts if you managed to max out his HP and you can abuse phantom pain with multiple weapons repeatedly (and even mix up crimson pain chain effect once in a while if you know what you're doing). I agree though, i'm surprised there isn't even a screenshot for the last save which isn't a lot to ask for for a game of this caliber. I'm starting to believe that a 1:43 time is possible with near flawless execution. Unless the person used an obscure strategy than i don't know how else he could've gotten such a good time.

So last night i was trying out some unorthodox strategies to see if they can be useful or not. I manipulated some luck and got a Hand of Light drop from the Minotaur in the time trial at the Keep. In order to get the Kalmia Sigil to open this door, you need the Tearose Sigil from the Air Dragon to explore the next room in the Iron Maiden. The enemies in the next room after the initial room in the Iron Maiden have the Kalmia Sigil. So after quite a few tries and a few resets, i managed to get this weapon after about 8 minutes total which can be cut down some more if you really wanted to. Unfortunately, this weapon isn't that strong against evil enemies or phantoms. As a matter of fact, it does NO damage against these types of enemies even if you have all 70 PP points filled up. The worst part is that the second half of the game is just littered with 'em. So no dice. It would be useful if you can get it miraculously from the first minotaur but that's doubtful. This def would be useful in a 100% run or something. Does anyone know if the first Dullahan drops a Rhomphaia?? I HIGHLY doubt this but if this happened to someone out there let me know.

I agree a TAS for this game would be pretty awesome but it would pale in comparison to a well-executed speedrun IMO. BTW i luv watching TAS videos. Watching someone take down the Dragon for example in one 25-30 hit chain legitimately would be great.

[quote="gmacd"]
1:43 first playthrough and 1:10 NG+. Crazy times, but there's no proof. They need a screenshot at least.
[/quote]

hahahaha, thanks for the support gmacd.  I could see 1:10 NG+ with ridiculous stats and a few powerful weapons in your inventory.  Your raging ache's power would be off the charts if you managed to max out his HP and you can abuse phantom pain with multiple weapons repeatedly (and even mix up crimson pain chain effect once in a while if you know what you're doing).  I agree though, i'm surprised there isn't even a screenshot for the last save which isn't a lot to ask for for a game of this caliber.  I'm starting to believe that a 1:43 time is possible with near flawless execution.  Unless the person used an obscure strategy than i don't know how else he could've gotten such a good time.

So last night i was trying out some unorthodox strategies to see if they can be useful or not.  I manipulated some luck and got a Hand of Light drop from the Minotaur in the time trial at the Keep.  In order to get the Kalmia Sigil to open this door, you need the Tearose Sigil from the Air Dragon to explore the next room in the Iron Maiden.  The enemies in the next room after the initial room in the Iron Maiden have the Kalmia Sigil.  So after quite a few tries and a few resets, i managed to get this weapon after about 8 minutes total which can be cut down some more if you really wanted to.  Unfortunately, this weapon isn't that strong against evil enemies or phantoms.  As a matter of fact, it does NO damage against these types of enemies even if you have all 70 PP  points filled up.  The worst part is that the second half of the game is just littered with 'em.  So no dice.  It would be useful if you can get it miraculously from the first minotaur but that's doubtful.  This def would be useful in a 100% run or something.  Does anyone know if the first Dullahan drops a Rhomphaia??  I HIGHLY doubt this but if this happened to someone out there let me know.

I agree a TAS for this game would be pretty awesome but it would pale in comparison to a well-executed speedrun IMO.  BTW i luv watching TAS videos.  Watching someone take down the Dragon for example in one 25-30 hit chain legitimately would be great.

Riskbreaker Y

2009-05-22 11:34:59 pm

berserker status

I luvs my new recorder Cheesy

It lets me record 30 hours of HQ footage so i'm recording in as high quality as i possibly can (s-video cable used for ps2). I'll read up some more on how to post stuff in the tech forum...

So i have officially completed my first segment of this game. It took me about 5 tries, and like half of those attempts were successful. Trust me when i say i've attempted this first segment at least a 100 times so i'm not being lazy. I will come back from time to time and try for a better time, if for no other reason than to visit the ol' Catacombs again.

*Withered Spring, 00:15:56; this time is as close to as optimal as possible i figure. i would say that you can shave off 10-20 secs. if EVERYTHING goes your way. I will say that i'm satisfied with this segment and will work hard to maintain a high standard for each one. I'm not sure if you guys want spoilers or not so i'll just be vague and focus on the errors and highlights since i've reviewed it a couple times to ensure quality.

*I avoid more enemies than usual, even some i never have before (say a bat usually gets in a single attack in certain rooms).

*I make about three human errors which couldn't have lost me more than 3-5 secs. The first one is when i accidentally go into first person mode because i was anticipating a cut scene (you skip them with start). time lost: 1-2 secs. The second mistake is before i pull the first lever and i have to move a box. I kinda stare for a split second because i was just out of reach of the box. Time lost: 1 sec. The last mistake is when i kind of get slowed down by a corner for a second. Time lost: 1 sec. Total Time lost: about 4 seconds. Remember, these are errors which are within MY control and are not due to bad luck.

*Now for the bad luck...not much of it actually. The battle of the minotaur lasted about five or ten seconds longer because he got a third hit on me. With normal luck he usually gets only two and with extraordinary luck you can down him after he gets the initial hit. With bad luck he gets in three or even four hits. I put him away after he does three hits and i miss about three times even though my risk is at zero. Going for his head yields the most damage but you're also more likely to miss, but in a speedrun you have to go for the riskiest route that produces the fastest time. Unfortunately, this battle is the only blemish but otherwise it went pretty well IMO.

*I get tons lucky on the Dullahan, the Ghost, and the Lizards. Please note that in this segment i don't kill any of the bosses in one combo (except the Ghost) intentionally because i had to manage the RISK points efficiently to allow for good luck to occur (I really need to upload some vids to illustrate my point better). The slime goes down in a 7 hit chain (surprising considering the practice run before he goes down in one hit, remember i got the first hit in but i only did 5 HP of base damage). The good thing that cancels out this rough patch is the fact i get my second chain ability after i kill it. This gets to my next point actually...

*It's best to save here at Withered Spring because i manipulate A LOT of luck in the Sanctum and also obviously because the first segment went well. It's critical ashley recalls his third chain ability before the Golem so that i can learn Raging Ache right afterward. My times so far are clocking in at around 24:50 so this particular segment needs to be flawless to maintain any advantage. Luckily it's short and all i have to do is make sure and chain the right number of combos and impact guard correctly consistently. I don't think i got a faerie chortle drop from the first slime so i may need to get it here...i need to review this some more. I may have to take it upon myself to kill the Dragon in one 24 hit chain because i've reached 21 before with no problem and the second chain was like 5 hits.

So that's my progress so far, i'm going to ensure i get a sub 2:00:00 mark and will strive to achieve sub 1:50:00, no matter how daunting it may seem at first. I won't make any time comparisons or anything until i have a real substantial lead. Hopefully the Sanctum won't take too long to get done.

I luvs my new recorder  :D   It lets me record 30 hours of HQ footage so i'm recording in as high quality as i possibly can (s-video cable used for ps2).  I'll read up some more on how to post stuff in the tech forum...

So i have officially completed my first segment of this game.  It took me about 5 tries, and like half of those attempts were successful. Trust me when i say i've attempted this first segment at least a 100 times so i'm not being lazy.  I will come back from time to time and try for a better time, if for no other reason than to visit the ol' Catacombs again.

*Withered Spring,  00:15:56;  this time is as close to as optimal as possible i figure.  i would say that you can shave off 10-20 secs. if EVERYTHING goes your way.  I will say that i'm satisfied with this segment and will work hard to maintain a high standard for each one.  I'm not sure if you guys want spoilers or not so i'll just be vague and focus on the errors and highlights since i've reviewed it a couple times to ensure quality.

*I avoid more enemies than usual, even some i never have before (say a bat usually gets in a single attack in certain rooms).

*I make about three human errors which couldn't have lost me more than 3-5 secs.  The first one is when i accidentally go into first person mode because i was anticipating a cut scene (you skip them with start).  time lost:  1-2 secs.  The second mistake is before i pull the first lever and i have to move a box.  I kinda stare for a split second because i was just out of reach of the box.  Time lost:  1 sec.  The last mistake is when i kind of get slowed down by a corner for a second.  Time lost:  1 sec.  Total Time lost:  about 4 seconds.  Remember, these are errors which are within MY control and are not due to bad luck.

*Now for the bad luck...not much of it actually.  The battle of the minotaur lasted about five or ten seconds longer because he got a third hit on me.  With normal luck he usually gets only two and with extraordinary luck you can down him after he gets the initial hit.  With bad luck he gets in three or even four hits.  I put him away after he does three hits and i miss about three times even though my risk is at zero.  Going for his head yields the most damage but you're also more likely to miss, but in a speedrun you have to go for the riskiest route that produces the fastest time.  Unfortunately, this battle is the only blemish but otherwise it went pretty well IMO.

*I get tons lucky on the Dullahan, the Ghost, and the Lizards.  Please note that in this segment i don't kill any of the bosses in one combo (except the Ghost) intentionally because i had to manage the RISK points efficiently to allow for good luck to occur (I really need to upload some vids to illustrate my point better).   The slime goes down in a 7 hit chain (surprising considering the practice run before he goes down in one hit, remember i got the first hit in but i only did 5 HP of base damage).  The good thing that cancels out this rough patch is the fact i get my second chain ability after i kill it.  This gets to my next point actually...

*It's best to save here at Withered Spring because i manipulate A LOT of luck in the Sanctum and also obviously because the first segment went well.  It's critical ashley recalls his third chain ability before the Golem so that i can learn Raging Ache right afterward.  My times so far are clocking in at around 24:50 so this particular segment needs to be flawless to maintain any advantage.  Luckily it's short and all i have to do is make sure and chain the right number of combos and impact guard correctly consistently.  I don't think i got a faerie chortle drop from the first slime so i may need to get it here...i need to review this some more.  I may have to take it upon myself to kill the Dragon in one 24 hit chain because i've reached 21 before with no problem and the second chain was like 5 hits.

So that's my progress so far, i'm going to ensure i get a sub 2:00:00 mark and will strive to achieve sub 1:50:00, no matter how daunting it may seem at first.  I won't make any time comparisons or anything until i have a real substantial lead.  Hopefully the Sanctum won't take too long to get done.

Rainman7

2009-05-23 02:35:43 am

Ooh, I love the sanctum. (gotta give props for the amazing music)

One of the reasons I would never even TRY to do a speed run of this game is b/c of the really amazing sense of atmosphere and exploration that draws me into the gam. Couldn't really experience that fully if I were pressured to always be moving forward. The sanctum is fairly short though. There might be a way to skip a few timed rooms if you are willing to forego treasure chests that I believe are in the east-most -portion of the level.

Riskbreaker Y

2009-05-23 02:55:30 am

berserker status

Both first segments are really cool and have great music and atmosphere. I agree it's hard to appreciate the game when you're blowing by it but in any case the speedrun showcases the gameplay mechanics being pushed to the limit. After playing this game so many times though, going through the game this way is really refreshing and fun. This game ages like fine wine or like Street Fighter 2 Turbo (now in HD! ;D).

About the timed room: I avoid it altogether since there's no need to go in there in the first place. This speedrun will fall under the low% category so i won't be opening any unnecessary chests, including the buckler. hell i won't be using any spells (other than teleportation), no healing items/spells, no vera items, or anything excessive. I'll use status restoring items if i have to (faerie chortle) but other than that i'll only use mana items to restore my MP quickly when i need to teleport later in the game. I will also only access the menu screen three times to set my chain/defense abilities: once in the beginning after the minotaur fight, secondly to equip raging ache, and third to equip absorb magic. i'll probably wind up equipping phantom pain later for the last boss fight too.

Both first segments are really cool and have great music and atmosphere.  I agree it's hard to appreciate the game when you're blowing by it but in any case the speedrun showcases the gameplay mechanics being pushed to the limit.  After playing this game so many times though, going through the game this way is really refreshing and fun.  This game ages like fine wine or like Street Fighter 2 Turbo (now in HD!   ;D).

About the timed room:  I avoid it altogether since there's no need to go in there in the first place.  This speedrun will fall under the low% category so i won't be opening any unnecessary chests, including the buckler.  hell i won't be using any spells (other than teleportation), no healing items/spells, no vera items, or anything excessive.  I'll use status restoring items if i have to (faerie chortle) but other than that i'll only use mana items to restore my MP quickly when i need to teleport later in the game.  I will also only access the menu screen three times to set my chain/defense abilities:  once in the beginning after the minotaur fight, secondly to equip raging ache, and third to equip absorb magic.  i'll probably wind up equipping phantom pain later for the last boss fight too.

Rainman7

2009-05-24 04:25:39 am

Awesome. It seems you are making productive use of your chain abilities. I really don't like the item use system. It takes a ridiculous amount of time to both select an item and use it and that is probably largely a reason for why you wouldn't employ their use except when completely necessary. However, I can't survive without them. :p I suck at this game hardcore though.

BTW, are you releasing these segments on youtube or are you going to wait until you've finished the entire run before posting? I am salivating at the chance to see your progress!

Riskbreaker Y

2009-05-24 01:56:39 pm

berserker status

Quote from Rainman7:

Awesome. It seems you are making productive use of your chain abilities. I really don't like the item use system. It takes a ridiculous amount of time to both select an item and use it and that is probably largely a reason for why you wouldn't employ their use except when completely necessary. However, I can't survive without them. :p I suck at this game hardcore though.

BTW, are you releasing these segments on youtube or are you going to wait until you've finished the entire run before posting? I am salivating at the chance to see your progress!

Thanks, i'm trying my very best to execute the right strategies and avoid anything that wastes time. I highly doubt i'll be posting a quality test video because it just seems like it will cost effort and/or money when i know i've set the recorder to record in widescreen (that's the screen i play on duh) and HQ. it looks pretty good when i replay it so unless there's something important that i'm missing...

But i will record the first segment using a digital camera and upload it to youtube in the near future hopefully. just to show you guys an idea of how the Wine Cellar and Catacombs should go.

[quote="Rainman7"]
Awesome.   It seems you are making productive use of your chain abilities.  I really don't like the item use system.  It takes a ridiculous amount of time to both select an item and use it and that is probably largely a reason for why you wouldn't employ their use except when completely necessary.   However, I can't survive without them.   :p  I suck at this game hardcore though.

BTW, are you releasing these segments on youtube or are you going to wait until you've finished the entire run before posting?  I am salivating at the chance to see your progress!  
[/quote]

Thanks, i'm trying my very best to execute the right strategies and avoid anything that wastes time.  I highly doubt i'll be posting a quality test video because it just seems like it will cost effort and/or money when i know i've set the recorder to record in widescreen (that's the screen i play on duh) and HQ.  it looks pretty good when i replay it so unless there's something important that i'm missing...

But i will record the first segment using a digital camera and upload it to youtube in the near future hopefully.  just to show you guys an idea of how the Wine Cellar and Catacombs should go.

CannibalK9

2009-05-24 02:26:30 pm

give me your eyes!!!

Quote from RiskBreaker Y:

But i will record the first segment using a digital camera and upload it to youtube in the near future hopefully. just to show you guys an idea of how the Wine Cellar and Catacombs should go.

That seems like it would be more effort than just encoding it yourself using anri-chan; it'll take a bit of set-up and some time to encode but then you know what to do in future and you don't have to worry about setting up wonky cameras in a dark room and the subsequent quality constriction.

I'm by no means a whore for pretty pictures so I won't harp on, either way I'm looking forward to a taste of this game done properly, though it will take a stretch to tide me over until the entire thing is done!

Riskbreaker Y

Edit history:

Riskbreaker Y: 2009-05-26 02:40:59 am

2009-05-26 01:46:59 am

berserker status

Yea it seems likely i'll probably just learn how to encode the segments myself because it does seem to be annoying recording with a digital camera. i'll probably pick up some blank DVD-R's tomorrow or something...

Tonight has been the only time this whole long weekend i've played VS. The Sanctum has proven to be quite the adversary because i've been failing to take advantage of the opportunities given to me. I HAVE recorded an SDA-worthy segment but i feel it can be improved and should.

*Rue Vermillion: 00:24:05; this time can easily be sub 24 mins. if i had only defeated either the golem or the Dragon in one combo. The golem should be easier but chaining with Temper can be annoying.

*I think I beat the Golem in one 13 hit chain and also a 16 hit chain. Obviously the second chain was grinded out because my RISK was 100 by then so there was no going back. I do learn Raging Ache finally after this battle.

*The Dragon goes down in one 13 hit chain combo i think and also a 19 hit chain. the second combo looks nice but i should try for at least a twenty hit combo here since i have Raging Ache and there's no excuses.

*I manage to avoid the skeleton with the crossbow, the first lizard before the cloudstone, and the second lizard that waits for you most of the time. i think it was the first time the the first and third things happened to me, the lizard seemed to be wandering around before trying to come after me and i avoided the skeleton with crossbow by going around the last pillar on the far end.

*My human errors were pretty much negligible apart from the boss battles: a couple seconds lost because i failed to accept an item (i'm so stupid...just press square! not circle!) and one where i fail to make the ledge before the cloudstone (but this mistake didn't matter since the cloudstone itself was still on its way back).

So yea, it's a pretty good time but not a great one. i'm going to try and run this segment more until i at least get below 24 mins. because i know i can beat at least one of the two bosses in one rush. the best case scenario is getting like 23 mins. flat but that means this segment would be perfect pretty much, getting luck (making sure to get the third chain ability before golem) and executing the combos. Getting lucky on avoiding certain enemies has secondary priority since you can't control enemy movements...although in any acceptable run the only enemies that should get in an attack are: one skeleton before the golem with a spear (sometimes you avoid him sometimes he reaches you), the following skeleton with the crossbow, and either of the two lizards (the first is easier to avoid).

edit: 24 mins. flat. i fucked up on the dragon and could've sealed the deal with some decent luck but no. it's alright i could do better than this....

Yea it seems likely i'll probably just learn how to encode the segments myself because it does seem to be annoying recording with a digital camera.  i'll probably pick up some blank DVD-R's tomorrow or something...

Tonight has been the only time this whole long weekend i've played VS.  The Sanctum has proven to be quite the adversary because i've been failing to take advantage of the opportunities given to me.  I HAVE recorded an SDA-worthy segment but i feel it can be improved and should.

*Rue Vermillion:  00:24:05;  this time can easily be sub 24 mins. if i had only defeated either the golem or the Dragon in one combo.  The golem should be easier but chaining with Temper can be annoying.

*I think I beat the Golem in one 13 hit chain and also a 16 hit chain.  Obviously the second chain was grinded out because my RISK was 100 by then so there was no going back.  I do learn Raging Ache finally after this battle.

*The Dragon goes down in one 13 hit chain combo i think and also a 19 hit chain.  the second combo looks nice but i should try for at least a twenty hit combo here since i have Raging Ache and there's no excuses.

*I manage to avoid the skeleton with the crossbow, the first lizard before the cloudstone, and the second lizard that waits for you most of the time.  i think it was the first time the the first and third things happened to me, the lizard seemed to be wandering around before trying to come after me and i avoided the skeleton with crossbow by going around the last pillar on the far end.

*My human errors were pretty much negligible apart from the boss battles:  a couple seconds lost because i failed to accept an item (i'm so stupid...just press square! not circle!) and one where i fail to make the ledge before the cloudstone (but this mistake didn't matter since the cloudstone itself was still on its way back).

So yea, it's a pretty good time but not a great one.  i'm going to try and run this segment more until i at least get below 24 mins. because i know i can beat at least one of the two bosses in one rush. the best case scenario is getting like 23 mins. flat but that means this segment would be perfect pretty much, getting luck (making sure to get the third chain ability before golem) and executing the combos.  Getting lucky on avoiding certain enemies has secondary priority since you can't control enemy movements...although in any acceptable run the only enemies that should get in an attack are:  one skeleton before the golem with a spear (sometimes you avoid him sometimes he reaches you), the following skeleton with the crossbow, and either of the two lizards (the first is easier to avoid).

edit:  24 mins. flat.  i fucked up on the dragon and could've sealed the deal with some decent luck but no.  it's alright i could do better than this....

Enhasa

2009-05-26 03:27:45 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Really looking forward to seeing some of these segs!

Just wanted to say, for some of the really optimized Ultima Garden times (have no clue how much time can come off Vagrant Story but it doesn't have any obsoletions yet -- although of course this could be due to nobody wanting to touch it because it's so good already), it might not even be possible to beat them due to disadvantages like English language and no turbo/custom controllers. If you think VS is nuts, here is the history of Valkyrie Profile B ending:

0:41:47 by Hunter
0:41:41 by Moka
0:41:23 by Moka
0:41:19 by Y
0:41:15 by Moka
0:41:14 by Moka

Riskbreaker Y

2009-05-26 03:55:26 pm

berserker status

Quote from Enhasa:

Really looking forward to seeing some of these segs!

Just wanted to say, for some of the really optimized Ultima Garden times (have no clue how much time can come off Vagrant Story but it doesn't have any obsoletions yet -- although of course this could be due to nobody wanting to touch it because it's so good already), it might not even be possible to beat them due to disadvantages like English language and no turbo/custom controllers. If you think VS is nuts, here is the history of Valkyrie Profile B ending:

0:41:47 by Hunter
0:41:41 by Moka
0:41:23 by Moka
0:41:19 by Y
0:41:15 by Moka
0:41:14 by Moka

Thanks, i'm looking forward to submitting this run. I'm confident i can get a pretty good time but that Ultima Garden time is just so other-worldly that it's hard to believe. they're allowed custom controllers? what does that mean exactly? if it helps the guy in any way to chain easier than i'd say it's not a speedrun but more close to a TAS because that's def gamebreaking and tool-assisted. I don't know if there are disadvantages with the version i play since practically all of the dialogue can be skipped. Too bad i've never played Valkyrie Profile so i can't appreciate those times Tongue

it's outta my price range to say the least.

I was gonna edit my last post but since i'm already here i'll just say i got a Rue Vermillion time of 23:32 with some menu mistakes and of course the Dragon gave me trouble. Everything went perfect until the Dragon fight when i fucked up the chain and had to kill him in three combos. It looks kinda unsightly but it's the best time i've gotten so far...i didn't even learn raging ache in this segment either so the next boss fight could pose problems if i don't go back and fix this...then again who knows. i hate it when i buckle under the pressure and cave in after the 15th hit. like i said before, acceptable but improvable...so considering i haven't spent too much time here i'm going to go for broke and try to get a near perfect segment here.

[quote="Enhasa"]
Really looking forward to seeing some of these segs!

Just wanted to say, for some of the really optimized Ultima Garden times (have no clue how much time can come off Vagrant Story but it doesn't have any obsoletions yet -- although of course this could be due to nobody wanting to touch it because it's so good already), it might not even be possible to beat them due to disadvantages like English language and no turbo/custom controllers. If you think VS is nuts, here is the history of Valkyrie Profile B ending:

0:41:47 by Hunter
0:41:41 by Moka
0:41:23 by Moka
0:41:19 by Y
0:41:15 by Moka
0:41:14 by Moka
[/quote]

Thanks, i'm looking forward to submitting this run.  I'm confident i can get a pretty good time but that Ultima Garden time is just so other-worldly that it's hard to believe.  they're allowed custom controllers?  what does that mean exactly?  if it helps the guy in any way to chain easier than i'd say it's not a speedrun but more close to a TAS because that's def gamebreaking and tool-assisted.  I don't know if there are disadvantages with the version i play since practically all of the dialogue can be skipped.  Too bad i've never played Valkyrie Profile so i can't appreciate those times   :P   it's outta my price range to say the least.

I was gonna edit my last post but since i'm already here i'll just say i got a Rue Vermillion time of 23:32 with some menu mistakes and of course the Dragon gave me trouble.  Everything went perfect until the Dragon fight when i fucked up the chain and had to kill him in three combos.  It looks kinda unsightly but it's the best time i've gotten so far...i didn't even learn raging ache in this segment either so the next boss fight could pose problems if i don't go back and fix this...then again who knows.  i hate it when i buckle under the pressure and cave in after the 15th hit.  like i said before, acceptable but improvable...so considering i haven't spent too much time here i'm going to go for broke and try to get a near perfect segment here.

Lag.Com

2009-05-26 04:29:46 pm

sda loyalist

It's not like Ultimagarden have the same rules as us. We shouldn't arbitrarily apply our own standards to their runs. I'm still waiting eagerly for these videos of yours. Smiley

Riskbreaker Y

2009-05-26 07:26:35 pm

berserker status

Quote from lag:

It's not like Ultimagarden have the same rules as us. We shouldn't arbitrarily apply our own standards to their runs. I'm still waiting eagerly for these videos of yours. Smiley

No worries, i'm not trying to impose rules on anybody i just didn't realize there were different standards for each site. Grin

hopefully my run will be impressive enough to stand on its own merit so that i won't have to be concerned about any comparisons. like i said, i'm confident i can make the sub 2:00:00 mark and i know for sure i can shave off whole minutes in certain segments that can easily slow you down. i appreciate all the support and helpful comments, some of these segments are gonna be tough.

gratefully, the beginning portion is finally finished! i made sure to maintain the same level of quality as the first segment and i'm glad to say the Sanctum is done with almost everything i can ask for. i only saw one or two human errors which couldn't cost any more than a few seconds at most.

*Rue Vermillion: 00:23:30; there's no way i could do better than this realistically other than repeating it exactly, dodging a couple more enemies (no more than 5-10 secs.), and landing critical hits on both bosses in the Sanctum. i won't give much details as before since i knew the previous posts were just leading up to this one and wouldn't reflect the final product.

Rest assured both bosses are disposed of properly as expected from Mr. Riot. I also get raging ache after the Dragon. it's possible to get raging ache after the golem but this strategy would probably only break even with this time or even be slower since you have to chain the slime and the golem longer to get the necessary points. i'll probably start the Abandoned Mines B1 later on tonight. I REALLY want to post these segments for you guys to see and analyze but it'll be at least a few days before i learn how to do that stuff and get blanks discs. Tongue

[quote="lag"]
It's not like Ultimagarden have the same rules as us. We shouldn't arbitrarily apply our own standards to their runs. I'm still waiting eagerly for these videos of yours. :)
[/quote]

No worries, i'm not trying to impose rules on anybody i just didn't realize there were different standards for each site.    ;D  hopefully my run will be impressive enough to stand on its own merit so that i won't have to be concerned about any comparisons.  like i said, i'm confident i can make the sub 2:00:00 mark and i know for sure i can shave off whole minutes in certain segments that can easily slow you down.  i appreciate all the support and helpful comments, some of these segments are gonna be tough.

gratefully, the beginning portion is finally finished!  i made sure to maintain the same level of quality as the first segment and i'm glad to say the Sanctum is done with almost everything i can ask for.  i only saw one or two human errors which couldn't cost any more than a few seconds at most.

*Rue Vermillion:  00:23:30;  there's no way i could do better than this realistically other than repeating it exactly, dodging a couple more enemies (no more than 5-10 secs.), and landing critical hits on both bosses in the Sanctum.  i won't give much details as before since i knew the previous posts were just leading up to this one and wouldn't reflect the final product.

Rest assured both bosses are disposed of properly as expected from Mr. Riot.  I also get raging ache after the Dragon.  it's possible to get raging ache after the golem but this strategy would probably only break even with this time or even be slower since you have to chain the slime and the golem longer to get the necessary points.  i'll probably start the Abandoned Mines B1 later on tonight.  I REALLY want to post these segments for you guys to see and analyze but it'll be at least a few days before i learn how to do that stuff and get blanks discs.   :P

Riskbreaker Y

2009-05-29 02:00:33 pm

berserker status

Just wanted to let you guys know that i posted the first two segs under three WIP's on youtube. The links are below:

WIP 1

WIP 2

WIP 3

Sorry about the darkness and the quality. These are just for you guys to look at and give me feedback. I also got an Abandoned Mines B1 segment ready (even though it's not as well executed as the first two segs, it's still really good!) but i won't be uploading any more videos until i have the next segment or two completed. Enjoy! Grin

Bananamatic

2009-05-29 02:48:38 pm

Good job, I would probably burst into gamer rage on the 100th failed attempt full of 100 Risk, platforming, puzzles and angry monsters behind my ass waiting for the moment when I miss Absorb Damage and get killed again.
It's definitely a great game, but not one I would enjoy to speedrun.

Translocating

2009-05-29 03:12:52 pm

Nice!

Can't argue with the "27 chains". Grin

Normally, I am hugely in favor of high segmentation. i.e. every time you're going through a save room, you save (and more). You practically jumped through the save point after the first boss and kept on going without segmenting there, which I thought was a huge mistake. Then I watched how long it actually takes to save: around 8 seconds. The timer keeps going even in the menu and while the game is writing data. So I'm not 100% sure anymore that doing Wine Cellar and Catacombs together was a mistake, but I think it still is. In the very least, segment 2 got much faster with more attempts. In the future if you're debating whether or not to segment, I would definitely go for it.

And I noticed that you are Impact Guarding everything. I just want to confirm that this is a conscious strategical decision that you made? As far as I can tell, I think using Impact Guard takes longer than not using any defense skill by about 1 second. Optimally you would only Impact Guard attacks that would kill you (especially after Raging Ache), but in each segment whether or not this is feasible due to execution is up to you of course.

Nice![spoiler]Can't argue with the "27 chains".  ;D[/spoiler]

Normally, I am hugely in favor of high segmentation. i.e. every time you're going through a save room, you save (and more).  You practically jumped through the save point after the first boss and kept on going without segmenting there, which I thought was a huge mistake.  Then I watched how long it actually takes to save:  around 8 seconds.  The timer keeps going even in the menu and while the game is writing data.  So I'm not 100% sure anymore that doing Wine Cellar and Catacombs together was a mistake, but I think it still is.  In the very least, segment 2 got much faster with more attempts.  In the future if you're debating whether or not to segment, I would definitely go for it.

And I noticed that you are Impact Guarding everything.  I just want to confirm that this is a conscious strategical decision that you made?  As far as I can tell, I think using Impact Guard takes longer than not using any defense skill by about 1 second.  Optimally you would only Impact Guard attacks that would kill you (especially after Raging Ache), but in each segment whether or not this is feasible due to execution is up to you of course.

Bananamatic

2009-05-29 03:46:29 pm

From my own experience, when you least expect it, the game says hello with a 140+ dmg critical attack.
I'd say guard anything, better safe than sorry.

moooh

2009-05-29 04:26:21 pm

Exoray

Looking good so far.

Including all menu handling a save takes approx 23 seconds from the opening of the menu up til the save completes.

Saving before the minotaur just to retry for the fight without having the 3 misses would loose more time than gained (approx 3 seconds lost per miss = 9 potential seconds to cut out) so that save point is definitely out of the question. I can't seem to find 23 seconds of mistakes during the time after the boss fight so saving at that point on the way back wouldn't save any time either.

Riskbreaker Y

2009-05-29 06:53:38 pm

berserker status

Translocating:

You are correct, impact guarding in certain situations is part of my strategy. Before fighting the Dullahan, i impact guard as much as i possibly can because all the bats chip away at your energy (not life threatening). Why does this matter? Because most of the time, the Dullahan opens up the match with a Drain Heart which you can't defend against this early in the game. Sometimes he does a physical attack that you can impact guard but this doesn't happen usually. Therefore you have to make sure you have enough health to survive this attack because he WILL initiate an attack if you follow the proper route. After this battle it is imperative to impact guard everything because most normal physical hits kill you and critical hits happen more frequently than you'd expect, even from lowly bats. this game happens in almost real time so you can't predict whether or not you'll survive an attack you just have to react quickly. Bananamatic pretty much sums it up, although you are correct in that you can shave off a few seconds from the beginning from refraining to impact guard and getting lucky in the HP department.

About the segmentation, i'd say segmenting this game to the max would basically mean executing 100% all your combos and getting lucky in key situations in order to make up for lost time because the game is just littered with save points. the only save point i could think of that can help take off time is the one before the minotaur fight but a save isn't warranted since everything before that came off basic execution and no luck. This is one of the longer segments although there will be a couple more of this length. The optimal route is to execute well and get lucky, not to save at every chance you get.

Translocating:

You are correct, impact guarding in certain situations is part of my strategy.  Before fighting the Dullahan, i impact guard as much as i possibly can because all the bats chip away at your energy (not life threatening).  Why does this matter?  Because most of the time, the Dullahan opens up the match with a Drain Heart which you can't defend against this early in the game.  Sometimes he does a physical attack that you can impact guard but this doesn't happen usually.  Therefore you have to make sure you have enough health to survive this attack because he WILL initiate an attack if you follow the proper route.  After this battle it is imperative to impact guard everything because most normal physical hits kill you and critical hits happen more frequently than you'd expect, even from lowly bats.  this game happens in almost real time so you can't predict whether or not you'll survive an attack you just have to react quickly.  Bananamatic pretty much sums it up, although you are correct in that you can shave off a few seconds from the beginning from refraining to impact guard and getting lucky in the HP department.

About the segmentation, i'd say segmenting this game to the max would basically mean executing 100% all your combos and getting lucky in key situations in order to make up for lost time because the game is just littered with save points.  the only save point i could think of that can help take off time is the one before the minotaur fight but a save isn't warranted since everything before that came off basic execution and no luck.  This is one of the longer segments although there will be a couple more of this length.  The optimal route is to execute well and get lucky, not to save at every chance you get.

moooh

2009-05-30 01:51:14 am

Exoray

oh and I forgot to mention this, but you should probably avoid using the SDA statid in your wip videos as it is only supposed to be used for verified and accepted videos. Using it for other videos is bound to degrade the actual meaning of what it really means.
You could always replace the image file for the statid with one of your own if you really want a static image as intro.

Riskbreaker Y

2009-05-30 02:10:20 am

berserker status

Quote from moooh:

oh and I forgot to mention this, but you should probably avoid using the SDA statid in your wip videos as it is only supposed to be used for verified and accepted videos. Using it for other videos is bound to degrade the actual meaning of what it really means.
You could always replace the image file for the statid with one of your own if you really want a static image as intro.

Thanks, i just added some annotations at the beginning of each section clarifying that this run hasn't been verified or anything. Next time i'll just answer 'no' to the statid in anrichan. It is a good way to show that it's me though Tongue

Riskbreaker Y

2009-05-30 03:59:01 pm

berserker status

Town Center West and Abandoned Mines B1 are done now and even though i'm satisfied with this segment it could've been executed better. With some decent luck and strong execution, you can shave off up to 20-30 secs. i'd say. This of course would be pretty difficult and really random (especially with Duane and the Wyvern). There are a few errors which maybe add up to 5-10 secs. that include having to use an yggdrasil's tear to cure paralysis before the Fire Elemental battle (3 out of 4 wards isn't THAT bad i hope). Wink

Here is segment 3:

WIP 4

WIP 5

The next segment will include parts of Town Center West, Undercity West, and the Snowfly Forest. It's probably one of my fav segments to do so i want to make it as perfect as possible...definitely want to take take down the Earth Dragon and/or Giant Crab down in one combo as well as get my first faerie wing drop with no bad luck. i'll spend as much time as i need to get this part right because my window to shave more time off is closing fast.

Town Center West and Abandoned Mines B1 are done now and even though i'm satisfied with this segment it could've been executed better.  With some decent luck and strong execution, you can shave off up to 20-30 secs. i'd say.  This of course would be pretty difficult and really random (especially with Duane and the Wyvern). There are a few errors which maybe add up to 5-10 secs. that include having to use an yggdrasil's tear to cure paralysis before the Fire Elemental battle (3 out of 4 wards isn't THAT bad i hope).   ;)

Here is segment 3:

WIP 4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUBSE7zea7Q&feature=channel_page

WIP 5

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auk4n7BlK04

The next segment will include parts of Town Center West, Undercity West, and the Snowfly Forest.  It's probably one of my fav segments to do so i want to make it as perfect as possible...definitely want to take take down the Earth Dragon and/or Giant Crab down in one combo as well as get my first faerie wing drop with no bad luck.  i'll spend as much time as i need to get this part right because my window to shave more time off is closing fast.

CannibalK9

2009-05-31 06:20:50 am

give me your eyes!!!

I'm having a great time watching this; while I can chain to a similar extent I have to see the connection with the enemy (you fought at least one bat blind) and I can't defend at all so would never go into a fight with as little health as you, so the fact that the game mechanics mean that your skill feeds directly into your speed is very satisfying to see.

I'm curious to see if I can spot any evidence that the next segment is one of your personal favourites, it's been so good so far. Also out of curiosity, what sort of affinity stats did your fandango have at the end of the practice run?