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Quote from CannibalK9:
I'm having a great time watching this; while I can chain to a similar extent I have to see the connection with the enemy (you fought at least one bat blind) and I can't defend at all so would never go into a fight with as little health as you, so the fact that the game mechanics mean that your skill feeds directly into your speed is very satisfying to see.

I'm curious to see if I can spot any evidence that the next segment is one of your personal favourites, it's been so good so far. Also out of curiosity, what sort of affinity stats did your fandango have at the end of the practice run?


Thanks, i appreciate any support and constructive criticism.  there won't be any way to tell the next seg is one of my favs unless you count an extremely low tolerance for mistakes.  i just really like undercity west  Grin  i just need to make sure to get the faerie wing drop in the next seg to make life easier in the seg afterward.  i actually have a reasonable run recorded for this seg but i really want to make it as perfect as possible...heheh the next seg has a couple nice blind spots, nothing that hard.  Wink

About the fandango stats i'll have to get back to you on that one some other time because i'm not home at the moment.  i kill more enemies in that run so i wouldn't look into the stats too much as they won't necessarily reflect this run's stats.
berserker status
Well, i've finally gotten segment 4 done and even though it's not perfect it's fairly solid. 

segment 4 (WIP 6)



There's a save data with 00:43:49 before which even though is faster is not ideal.  for starters i didn't get the faerie wing drop and the crab fight was actually kind of rough (2-round kill).  I'll explain the main differences for the time below.

*In the 43:49 time, i get hit by a critical hit in the beginning and eat the third hit from the crimson blade.  i don't have to impact guard and this saves me about 2 sec.  The fact that i have lower health here will save me time later on too.

*The faerie wing drop itself probably takes a few seconds since you have to *accept* the item drop.

*The fire elemental went down in 13 hits rather than 15 hits since my health was a bit lower.  This saves about 2-3 sec.

Sorry cannibalk9, i erased my old data to make space so i don't have the stats for the fandango.
give me your eyes!!!
With every segment I can't believe how flawless you're making the game look; I find it really hard to move smoothly while adjusting the camera since it clips into certain angles, and my eyebrow is stuck in a raised position after the evasion in snowfly forest. Due to the nature of the battle system I took every enemy to be a barrier, rather than an obstacle as you've shown. No one watching who hasn't played it will grasp the difficulty of the Earth Dragon either, how much luck does your approach take? The jumps might be sufficient to confuse it but it's one of the fastest enemies off the mark.

Quote from RiskBreaker Y:
Sorry cannibalk9, i erased my old data to make space so i don't have the stats for the fandango.


That's okay, they're probably really low all round but it may have some surprises, I'll wait till the end of this one!
berserker status
Thanks a bunch, i wouldn't say they're flawless but they're acceptable.  Wink

Moving the camera accurately comes with trial and error mostly since personally i prefer certain angles to chain more effectively.  If you pay attention closely in the Snowfly Forest, in like the third screen with the lizards, it seems as though i get slowed down by a tree trunk.  This is actually done intentionally because sometimes the little lizard hops to where you are at in the entrance (much like the first lizard actually) so if you're too hasty you'll eat a physical attack or worse yet, an acid breath attack (unblockable unless you equip terra ward).  Also, believe it or not, you can get by one or both crimson blades at the very beginning in Town Center West but this is totally random.  The alley is too narrow for any real maneuverability for evasion.  You can save about five seconds there if you're lucky as hell.  The crab can go down in 19 hits if you land the initial hit with base damage of at least 4 HP so you can save a couple secs. there too. 

I'd have to agree with you cannibal on whether people grasp the difficulty of certain parts, not just the Earth Dragon.  This part wouldn't be as hard if you equipped Terra Ward and Fire Proof but it isn't absolutely necessary and it wastes time.  Landing the initial hit against the Earth Dragon can be tricky but you just gotta mash on the jump right away and hope he doesn't open up with acid breath.  If you look closely in the segment, he backs up a few steps to get space for acid breath.  Luckily i crowded him before he did anything.  You know you got it for sure if he takes a few steps TOWARD you though.  I'd say you got a 50/50 chance to land first.  Strangely though, the most frustrating part of that segment was not the Earth Dragon but the Fire Elemental.  Getting the first hit against him is a lot tougher because he's quick as hell and you have to reach him in time (you probably have less than 1/4 chance of this).  I don't know how many times i got killed by his fireball attack.  Then again, out of so many successful attempts, only 2-3 attempts actually yielded a faerie wing drop so i'm really grateful this is over now.  Grin
Exoray
Awesome work with that segment. Not much to add here, there are so many do or die scenarios in this segment that asking for better luck with the alley blades would probably be asking too much.
berserker status
Alright, so i've been practicing the next segment and i already got a solid time w/ a 2nd faerie wing drop (00:52:17).  It's a lot easier getting the drop this time around since the next two ichthious are relatively near the save point.  This time could be better because i had some tough luck in some parts (namely Sydney casting two spells, one of them being cure on me) and i also used a vera potion (RISK all clear) right before the locked room with the three lizards.  It takes about ten seconds to use the item but all three lizards go down in 11 hits or less (but i had a lot of HP due to Sydney though...).  If you strike their arms at 100 Risk you still have like 10-20% chance of hitting so maybe it'll be best for me to push my luck.  I was just experimenting to see what would happen seeing that this place is the ONLY situation where the vera potion would be useful.  all the bosses and regular enemies go down in one round so anything less is a no-no in the real run unless there are exceptional circumstances (i.e. faster end time).  The key in this segment is to kill both Grissom and the Dark Crusader before Sydney has a chance to cure you.  If he casts prostasia than that's fine but the cure spell pretty much halves the attack power of raging ache.  I'm sure i can get a better time than this (hopefully sub 52:00) as it's unlikely i'll keep this particular seg.
Edit history:
Riskbreaker Y: 2009-06-12 04:51:04 am
berserker status
phew, it took me awhile but i finally uploaded the latest seg.  Freakin' computer was being stubborn on me Angry

Sorry for the constant double posts, but it's not my fault i update somewhat regularly with few responses  Wink

Segment 5  (WIP 7):



A few notes:

*It's possible to get two faerie wing drops in this segment (adding up to a total of 3) but the third one isn't entirely necessary.  You CAN use it at the Temple of Kiltia but most likely you'd just break even cuz those puzzles can be solved quickly.  Also, those ichthious have a nasty habit of attacking with spiral shell (water based attack) so it makes all the sense in the world to put both of them down as quickly as possible.

*The Dark Crusader and Grissom fight could've gone better as i mentioned before in another post; getting a two round kill on the Dark Crusader actually turned out to be a blessing in disguise because Sydney casts Prostasia on me.  Later on when i fight the lizards, i land an initial hit on the first lizard and because of that spell it's as if i'm landing a critical blow.  The Blood Lizard is tough to land the first hit but the second green lizard avoids my first slash.  I could've tried again for the first hit (and thus reduce the number of chains) but there was a good chance i'd miss and just waste time.

*Yes, you can avoid the Fire Elemental with practice.  I thought i would just get away with getting slapped with a Mind Drain, but i managed to get away clean.  The first Fire Elemental in the Snowfly Forest (prev seg) is virtually impossible to avoid without eating a fireball.

Also, i actually need some advice on memory space.  Should i just get another ps1 memory card or delete my old files to make room for new ones??  I'm kind of paranoid for some reason to erase my previous sava data for this run.  The goddamn things only store 5 slots for VS (each save takes up 24 kb)!

edit:  sub 2:00:00 is well within my grasp after all the time i've saved.  i've been comparing my time with my previous run and babo's and if everything goes accordingly i should have a ten minute lead on him at rue lejour.  now it's a matter of going after that crazy Ultima Garden record. 

sum mo editting:  goddamn avatar of mine seems to turn off every few hours....freakin' gif.
You're doing great. It would be amazing if you beat the Ultima Garden time, but I'm not getting my hopes up and I still won't accept it without a screen shot.
berserker status
Quote from gmacd:
You're doing great. It would be amazing if you beat the Ultima Garden time, but I'm not getting my hopes up and I still won't accept it without a screen shot.


I'm not holding my breath either, that time is just so...dumb.  My goal really now is to get sub 1:50:00 or sub 1:55:00; now wouldn't that be nice?  Tongue  LOL, i'm lovin' the skepticism though.  if their time is LAST SAVE then my window just cracked open just a liiiiitle bit since killing Guildenstern takes about...3-5 mins probably.

The reason why i'm not really expecting to break that record is because in the second half of my practice run i kind of started to keep it more tight.  There are some blatant mistakes that can save almost a minute (like when i fucked up on item management after teleporting to the warrior's keep and waiting for my MP to recover) but i remember some segments like the Temple of Kiltia where i went balls out and did well.  so.....either way i'm gonna try pretty hard to get a reasonable time though.  Grin

It seems like i won't be posting any new vids until i get another memory card because it just seems wrong to delete those other files. i'll probably just practice the next seg a lot cuz it's one of the harder ones, execution-wise.  Unlike last time, i'm planning to reach Rue Lejour in one go instead of saving at the Bandit's Hollow.  It's imperative i have a ten minute lead by the time i reach Rue Lejour.
berserker status
Don't get excited...i haven't posted any new segments or anything.  Today's been the first time in awhile that i've picked up VS.  I just wanted to give an update on the next segment with Rosencrantz, the Dark Elemental, and Air Dragon.

I have confirmed that i'll be ten minutes ahead of babo @ Rue Lejour.  My unofficial time was 1:01:3x.  There was some good luck and some bad luck...more bad but i'll give some details below.

*Rosencrantz landed a Vile Scar on me, causing poison status.  Even though it's helpful to keep Raging Ache as powerful as possible, it's just not worth the time lost in going through the menu screen and using a faerie chortle.  in the real segment, expect me to get hit by either Rending Gale or a simple physical attack (physical being preferable).  I had to chain him three times to bring him down but i'm aiming to bring him down in two combos, even though he dodges A LOT of chains.

*One of the gargoyles before the Dark Elemental battle did Numbing Hook on me, so i had to use a spirit orbison (whatever it's called) to heal my status.  either i get by clean or a physical hit is acceptable.

*I learn Absorb Magic after the Dark Elemental and equip it immediately because right away in Undercity West I face a Dark Eye and it casts Fireball half the time (psychodrain being the other spell).  So...obviously i need to be ready for this attack plus:  in Town Center east, one of the Crimson Blades ALWAYS casts lightning bolt so there's no way you can get through the game w/o equipping Absorb Magic.  Hopefully i can learn phantom pain by the last boss because that'll really speed things along.  i won't go out of my way though to learn it, obviously.

*At the Bandit's Hollow, my fav place *sarcasm*, i actually got some pretty damned good luck.  First i kill the imp that drops down right away b/c he's ready to start shit, nothing new there.  I'm not 100% sure, but i think the lizardman has a silver weapon because i swear i impact guarded one time and i still died.  he's avoidable most of the time anyway.  The part where i got lucky is when the second imp destroyed the box on the top level (i don't know what the fuck prompted it to do such a thing) so i actually did less platforming and saved a few seconds.  This most likely won't happen in the real run cuz that is very rare.  the imp also does a simple physical attack on me so i saved time since it usually casts Vulcan Lance i think.  before i used to kill both imps but i'm leaning toward just killing one now.

*The Air Dragon went down in three combos but i'm determined to bring him down in two.  Not much time lost there though.

So yea...that's what i got to say.  I'm waiting for my second memory card to come in the mail but i won't get it until Tue. at the earliest  Sad so there won't be another segment for awhile.  hopefully i can get 1:01 even in the official run.  thanks for watching the videos guys!  Grin
berserker status
well, got the next segment done but it has what i consider my first BIG mistake.  due to a complete error on my part, i use an extra cure bulb and also make another mistake later at the save screen costing me a total of 14-18 secs.  if i hadn't made the first mistake this segment would've been nearly perfect...i'm pretty annoyed with myself but i still complete it with a reasonably good time.

segment 6 (WIP 8 ):



this could be improved with near perfect execution and good luck of course.  i really don't want to go back and fix this because it was really irritating to get a time this good.  the next segment will be hard too but there's also potential to skip more enemies and save more time.  i'm anticipating to make no more than 30 secs. worth of REAL mistakes in this run because any more than that has the potential to fuck up the final time.  no one's perfect i guess....gotta keep it tight...
That's great work. The mistake at the end is ugly but you can't argue with the time. You've got 11 minutes on babo right now so you still need to shave 12 minutes off his time to get sub 2 hours.
berserker status
Quote from gmacd:
That's great work. The mistake at the end is ugly but you can't argue with the time. You've got 11 minutes on babo right now so you still need to shave 12 minutes off his time to get sub 2 hours.


I appreciate the kind words.  The mistake at the end was ugly...i don't know what the hell was going through my head, i was just habituated to go to the second memory card slot (-4 secs.).  The first cure bulb that i used (-10 sec.) wouldn't have been as ugly if i had risked not doing the impact guard on the crossbow skeleton.  I was just scared of getting hit by a critical hit i guess.  If i had gotten hit by a numbing hook and still got lucky at the Bandit's Hollow like i did, then i probably would've kept the segment anyway...so that's the way i try to rationalize it to myself  Cry  Oh well, it's a pretty nice looking segment anyways...like you said the time is what matters.  In case you were wondering, i also lost like 2 secs. on the imp that i killed because it normally takes 9 hits to kill it but since i had higher HP, the raging ache lost some efficacy.  And i'm only ahead by ten minutes and eight seconds BTW babo's time @ Rue Lejour was (1:11:00), still, it's a decent time. 

i wasn't planning on using cure bulbs at all during the run but i didn't get Absorb Magic after the Dark Elemental battle as planned since i kill Rosencrantz in fewer chains (yea, he's that annoying;  one time i felled him in one 28 hit combo but that shit was hard, another time i landed a 30+ combo and he still didn't die). 

Well like i said before, the next segment will be tough but i'm aiming to skip more enemies this time around.  i killed about 3-4 extra enemies in the practice run and also fucked up bad when using Mana items for teleportation so there's potential here to save up to a minute and half or something.
Edit history:
Riskbreaker Y: 2009-06-25 01:24:52 am
berserker status
Made some nice progress today. 

segment 7 (WIP 9)



segment 8 (WIP 10)



segment 7 notes:

*on the crimson blade who casts fireball:  it's possible to bypass him completely but this depends mostly on luck, even then he usually gets off at least one fireball from below.  so...he only gets one extra fireball on me, not too big of a deal.

*the Lich decides to be a prick and teleports away.  this costs me like 3 secs. but this again depends on luck.

*the only hiccup in this segment is when i decide to kill the quicksilver.  this particular one is very special and usually kills me with its silver dagger weapon (impossible to impact guard=death) so obviously i decide to kill the little bastard.  out of all of the quicksilvers, this one kills me the most frequently.  normally this would be bad but in reality this wasn't that terrible.  for starters, if you're lucky he'll cast Drain Heart which you're able to absorb (you still have to wait for the animation and of course react) or worse yet a Drain Mind.  but fortunately for me, it drops a Mana Bulb which saves me the trouble of having to use any Mana Roots (see next segment).  also the reason why i decided to kill the quicksilver is because it usually casts a spell from a distance:  the little bastard was rushing me so i KNEW he was going to try and fuck me over.

segment 8 notes:

pwned.  nah just kidding...

*i use one Mana Bulb instead of two Mana Roots

*it's possible to avoid the Dark Elemental on the way back but most of the time, he has time to cast a second spell which can slow you down some (especially since he almost always casts Meteor Lv. 1 every other turn).  at best you can shave off 5-10 secs. but you'd have to be one lucky motherfucker.  regardless, i learn a chain ability so hopefully i can get Phantom Pain by the last boss which can shave off time from the raping i'm ready to give Guildenstern. 

so yea...enjoy.  feel free to give feedback or criticism as always.  i can smell sub 2:00:00.....it smells like.................................VICTOLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BTW that spelling is intentional and i'm sippin' on some Coronas  Grin

edit:  on segment number 8:  yes, i do stand idle for like 5 secs. so that my MP recharges to 43 MP.  it costs like 55 MP to teleport to the Kesch Bridge from the Warrior's Rest so i had to bite the bullet and wait a few seconds to teleport to that other place Sinner's Corner.  not a big deal considering you have to get extremely lucky to get MP points after boss fights and such.  just in case you were wondering...

second edit:  goddammit!!  anyways, for segment 8 you might want to skip the first 45 secs. since i accidentally included a failed segment.  don't worry, i'm planning on making a bloopers file for y'all....trust me, there's enough footage of failed attempts for 10 mins..!!  Lips Sealed
Nice to get a little luck with that Quicksilver. You have ~15 minutes on babo now! Only need to cut out 8 more.

BTW remember that crazy time of 1:17 he credited to VMerken? Well his email address is here: http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/recognition/1596.html if you want to ask him about it.
Edit history:
Riskbreaker Y: 2009-06-26 02:38:41 pm
berserker status
Quote from gmacd:
Nice to get a little luck with that Quicksilver. You have ~15 minutes on babo now! Only need to cut out 8 more.

BTW remember that crazy time of 1:17 he credited to VMerken? Well his email address is here: http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/recognition/1596.html if you want to ask him about it.


Yea i was really close to redoing that segment but that Mana Bulb drop really did help later.  At the least i ALMOST broke even with the time i saved just using one Mana Item.

I'm not sure i'll bother emailing the author or VMERKEN (if that's his email) mostly because it seems like they wouldn't respond.  Babo wrote that FAQ in 2001 and i've never seen him anywhere in the VS boards so i really doubt he's 'active' or anything.  Besides, i really think that time is bullshit.  Even the 1:43 time reported at Ultima Garden requires a stretch of the imagination to believe.  I wouldn't doubt it if it was a TAS time but a real speedrun???  I'm not going to beat this dead dog anymore.

Anyways, yea i've been making some decent progress the last couple days.  I have made it to Plateia Lumitar @ 1:33:27, and i'm still trying to improve that segment by 10 secs. at least.  It's just getting really close to the end and i'll be damned if i get a 2:00:1X time or something.  So at the very least, i'll have about a 19 minute lead on Babo as i proceed into the Great Cathedral.  I just need to cut out a couple minutes from the last couple segments to insure getting sub 2:00:00.  The Guildenstern fight should last between 3-4 mins. because of the strategy i came up with.  If i can get to the Atrium at a time of 1:55:00 (at the most) then i should be ok.  I'm REALLY cutting it close so there's a possibility i may have to restart the speedrun at an earlier segment...just cross your fingers for me.... Undecided

Edit:  i'm assuming since there's no end-game timer displayed (i'll record to the bitter end to prove to y'all), then the last boss fight will be manually timed.  This means that as soon as the deathblow is delivered, the manual-timer should stop (those are the SDA rules right?).  So obviously i'm relying on this definition to make the sub 2:00:00 time.
"Get thee gone, Darkness!!"
Not much to ask about.  1:17 is impossible in every case.  Having beaten VS over 200 times and having a max stat. file(s) with Ultimate/Perfect DP everything, I can't even come close to that time and I cannot be hit and kill everything in 1 hit with the file I've been working on *consistently* for 7+ years.  I think a first playthrough run in less than 2 hours would be very impressive *if* it's even possible.  I've beaten Twin Galaxies best submitted time with a max stat. file.  Among other things, you have got to remember that chaining takes TIME.  SAVING takes TIME.  I have no need for either and a run at around 1:40 is still damn hard and requires perfection in every case.  Show me a first playthrough VS run that's been done in less than two hours and I'll be very impressed.  I know I couldn't do that and I don't even know if it's possible.         

There was never any proof that VMerken beat VS in 1:17 in a first playthrough and that's because it's BS.  VS cannot be beaten that quickly no matter first playthrough or 200,000th playthrough.  The game simply cannot be played that quickly.

...WERD...
Edit history:
Riskbreaker Y: 2009-06-26 04:14:09 pm
berserker status
Quote from AshleyRiot2006:
Not much to ask about.  1:17 is impossible in every case.  Having beaten VS over 200 times and having a max stat. file(s) with Ultimate/Perfect DP everything, I can't even come close to that time and I cannot be hit and kill everything in 1 hit with the file I've been working on *consistently* for 7+ years.  I think a first playthrough run in less than 2 hours would be very impressive *if* it's even possible.  I've beaten Twin Galaxies best submitted time with a max stat. file.  Among other things, you have got to remember that chaining takes TIME.  SAVING takes TIME.  I have no need for either and a run at around 1:40 is still damn hard and requires perfection in every case.  Show me a first playthrough VS run that's been done in less than two hours and I'll be very impressed.  I know I couldn't do that and I don't even know if it's possible.         

There was never any proof that VMerken beat VS in 1:17 in a first playthrough and that's because it's BS.  VS cannot be beaten that quickly no matter first playthrough or 200,000th playthrough.  The game simply cannot be played that quickly.

...WERD...


After playing this game intensely for the past couple of months, I can say with absolute certainty that sub 2:00:00 is definitely possible.  It just requires insane execution and tremendous luck.  I'm on pace for the sub 2:00:00 so prepare to be 'impressed'  8)

Dude...you have a maxed out file???  I didn't even know you had an SDA account man!  WTF are you waiting for...!!!  I WANT 100% SPEEDRUN NOW!!!  Having a perfect file is easily the most efficient way to get the 100% speedrun done (all treasure chests).  You don't even have to worry about chaining very much since you pretty much own EVERYTHING in a couple of hits.  Even then you'd still have to avoid most enemies to save time though unfortunately  Undecided

edit:  plateia lumitar @ 1:33:03;  i will NOT settle for anything other than sub 1:33:00
"Get thee gone, Darkness!!"
RiskBreaker Y Wrote:

"After playing this game intensely for the past couple of months, I can say with absolute certainty that sub 2:00:00 is definitely possible.  It just requires insane execution and tremendous luck.  I'm on pace for the sub 2:00:00 so prepare to be 'impressed'

Dude...you have a maxed out file???  I didn't even know you had an SDA account man!  WTF are you waiting for...!!!  I WANT 100% SPEEDRUN NOW!!!  Having a perfect file is easily the most efficient way to get the 100% speedrun done (all treasure chests).  You don't even have to worry about chaining very much since you pretty much own EVERYTHING in a couple of hits.  Even then you'd still have to avoid most enemies to save time though unfortunately"

Yes, my VS file is maxed in every way.  Given that VS logs everything from every previous playthrough(s) with the one exception being 'Miscellaneous Items' a 100% run is already a given, but it's a New Game+ run.    You noted that you were uncertain about VS including/logging your last boss fight time and that's incorrect.  When you beat VS and save and restart your game, go into the menu, and you can see your fastest ever previous playthrough time, which includes every *minute* up the the very end of any given playthrough.

To give you an example, I think I'm the first person to prove that VS stops it's in-menu playthrough count logging at 99.  A lot of people have figured (and later said) as much, I first proved it.  That was years ago and I forget.     

I can't chain.  A maxed file won't allow for it.  I kill everything in 1 hit, even by "slapping" them.  Trouble with going unarmed is your range is crap.  Which takes time, trying to get close to them.  Figure it like a "God-Mode" file.  I can't be hit and I kill everything in 1 hit.  Well earned I might add.

Regarding engaging enemies, when you play VS enough you start to realize and remember what enemies will engage you and which ones will not.  This whole 'jump strategy' is garbage.  You are slapped in a room, some enemies are hostile and will engage you no matter what you do, and others will ignore you.  You just play enough to recognize what is what, and run/walk past the ones that won't engage you.  If you know they will engage you, you get the bead on them and kill them *first*, in 1 hit if you have my file.  Enemy strategy never changes in VS.  Recognize your enemy.  Jumping doesn't hurt but it won't save your ass.           

I was never inherently a speed-runner.  I'm a stat maxer.  Just I got bored one day and decided I'd see how fast VS could really be beat.  The hardest part was going without a cigarette for those near 2 hour run(s).

I have stat. maxed things in VS most don't even know about, much less do anything, with.  Luminaire pioneered the first published way of doing "these things".  Has to do mostly with DP Tempering.     

I don't post much here. I mostly just lurk and read the tidbits on VS as the years go by.  In fact, I think this is my 2nd ever post here.  Never previously had any real reason to say much. 

My AIM = AshleyRiot2006
My MSN = al_simmons@charter.net

Get a hold of me if and when you want to "knuckle down" on this VS run, I can perhaps save you some headache... 
Edit history:
Riskbreaker Y: 2009-06-26 08:55:56 pm
berserker status
You're right, you have to go to the encyclopedia to come up with the time.  I'm not sure if that's what Mike would expect to prove the end time.  Besides, you're killing me smalls i was trying to use the SDA rule to my advantage  Angry  Still, i dunno what the protocol would be for timing the last fight.  It would be bullshit if the time includes the ending and credits.  That's why i think the SDA rule is more appropriate but whatever that's not for me to say with certainty.

About not being able to chain in a new-game plus file:  THAT'S the beauty of it.  It's a hell lot faster and i'm pretty sure it would be allowed at SDA.  I would go for the 100% but having every stat maxed out and having all the ultimate armor/weapons would take YEARS as you yourself have confirmed. 

I agree and disagree with your engaging enemies paragraph.  YES, memorization plays a huge role in knowing which enemies will engage you or not.  But i swear to you that after resetting on certain enemies and bosses X amount of times, it's possible to manipulate enemy actions so that you can get something more favorable for a speed run, trust me, I too have played this game since I was like fifteen.  "Jumping" will save your ass my friend.  I totally have respect for your opinions, as they make sense, but i have to agree to disagree on this one.  Just look at my first segment and just look at how many bats i avoid simply by timing my jumps.  It's a lot tougher than it looks.  And besides, this works for many other enemies such as the small lizards at the Snowfly Forest and others like the Fire Elemental (try to run by him and let me know how it goes).  I'm pretty sure the way the mechanic works is that the enemies cannot engage you in the air (obviously) so you can put a little distance between you and them, which allows you to stay out of their range just barely.  I can't tell you how many times i thought it was 'safe' to run by an enemy only to get killed or impact guard or whatever.  Enemy strategy in VS is EXTREMELY fluid and dynamic.  A lot of enemy actions are set in stone but sometimes they can surprise you, for instance:  at the Sanctum when you're crossing the river on the cloudstone, it's possible that the Lizard can just go into the corner and start jerking off or whatever, allowing you to get by totally clean.  In the segment that i recorded, he attacks me once but that was pretty much expected.  The point is:  even the most mundane enemy actions can vary.

But yea man, i'm glad you're actually posting and giving useful criticism.  Not many people around here who are intimately familiar with this game.  If you saw any blatant mistakes in my speedrun, please just post your comments here or on my youtube page since those are the only places i check with frequency.  i still really think you should attempt a 100% speedrun because seriously, you already did all the hard work with all the stat/weapon building and such.  Seriously...it would be awesome to see VS owned to the max.

Edit:  got a Plateia Lumitar time of 1:32:54 but got hit with a poison mist...grrrrr....i'm gonna experiment and see if it's possible to complete the game with the poison status but i really doubt it...if only heal panels restored your status...fuck.
"Get thee gone, Darkness!!"
RiskBreaker Y:
Stay on the path you are on and you will accomplish what many have talked about and nobody has accomplished.  A VS First-Playthrough Speed Run that's unbeatable.  I don't even care what the Japanese claim as VS times.  I know VS and I know the reality of VS.  I routinely see either one of two things online regarding VS speed runs.  Either silly, impossible, "claimed" VS First-Playthrough Speed Run times or nobody with the balls to really do it.   

You have my respect!!! Shocked

Now if you want to really out-do yourself make a:
'Complete Suit/Set' of Ultimate Leather Dread Armor [ULDA] with MAX possible DP. 
(I know this link doesn't touch on DP tempering, but it's a start.) 
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=914326&topic=49857007
That task should only take about 5 years or so.

To this day VS lives on.  Few games this old still have the core group of hard-core players that VS does.

P.S. You said you had been playing VS since you were 15.  Given I don't know how old you are currently that doesn't tell me much.  I'm 37 atm, how old are you now?

 
Edit history:
Riskbreaker Y: 2009-06-27 12:01:30 am
berserker status
Quote from AshleyRiot2006:
RiskBreaker Y:
Stay on the path you are on and you will accomplish what many have talked about and nobody has accomplished.  A VS First-Playthrough Speed Run that's unbeatable.  I don't even care what the Japanese claim as VS times.  I know VS and I know the reality of VS.  I routinely see either one of two things online regarding VS speed runs.  Either silly, impossible, "claimed" VS First-Playthrough Speed Run times or nobody with the balls to really do it.   

You have my respect!!! Shocked

Now if you want to really out-do yourself make a:
'Complete Suit/Set' of Ultimate Leather Dread Armor [ULDA] with MAX possible DP. 
(I know this link doesn't touch on DP tempering, but it's a start.) 
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=914326&topic=49857007
That task should only take about 5 years or so.

To this day VS lives on.  Few games this old still have the core group of hard-core players that VS does.

P.S. You said you had been playing VS since you were 15.  Given I don't know how old you are currently that doesn't tell me much.  I'm 37 atm, how old are you now?

 


Thanks man, you don't how much the support from everybody is helping me through this run.  I am fairly certain that i can achieve sub 2:00 this time around but even if i somehow fuck up, i'll def go back and fix the other segments.  All i care about is finishing this run and f*ck all else, i'm not letting any obscene records distract me.

Again, thanks for the respect.  The fact that you even achieved a perfect data within a decade is a feat in itself.  You can see where this one's going:  you HAVE to try for a 100% dude, i will never stop breaking your ballz until you do.  NO ONE is in a better position than you.  I've deleted all my other VS files and trust me, they were NO WHERE near being perfect...hell i barely got my first Rhomphaia last year (w/ no Holy Win either)!  Much respect for your dedication, and i sincerely hope you go for a 100% in the future cuz i know i won't knowing there's people out there like you with silly data stats....maybe in a year or two but that's really doubtful.  LOL, i'll pass on the ultimate dread leather armor.  I got a normal Dread Armor but i imagine the leather is stronger against magic?  I think mine was made of either bronze or hagane.

And yea, it's amazing that VS is a wonderful game that certainly stands the test of time.  Such a masterpiece...but enough self-stroking!  I am 24 years of age and i've been playing VS on and off over the years.  Before i started my run, i hadn't played through it in like a year or so.  Most of my chaining skillz comes from experience (just imagine really long shitty chains without Raging Ache) from when I was still in high school.  Impact guarding i was ok at but i've gotten a lot better the past couple months.  Absorb Magic came as i went along since each magic spell is different. 

P.S. I want 100% now.

edit:  oh yea, i should also mention that for the past 2-3 years i've been working on my Street Fighter 3:  Third Strike game.  I am a scrub by any measurable standard but i'll defeat any avg. player IMO.  Not exactly comparable to VS but trust me the parrying system in that game really set the stage for this speedrun.  BTW i main Alex SAII and Ryu (SAI and II mostly, sometimes denjin for fun).  Ken is for tier-whores  8)  Mid-tier characters alltheway!!!!
Exoray
Quote from RiskBreaker Y:

Edit:  got a Plateia Lumitar time of 1:32:54 but got hit with a poison mist...grrrrr....i'm gonna experiment and see if it's possible to complete the game with the poison status but i really doubt it...if only heal panels restored your status...fuck.


Yea, too bad there's no cure panel on your path either.

Can't say much about segment 7. Everything non luck based looks really good cept for that jump into the wall just before the teleportation part Smiley
From what I remember the Lich (and the ghost) tend to teleport away more frequently if you open the target sphere too quickly. If you give them slight more opportunity to initiate an attack (but not enough so that they'll actually get one of) you are more likely getting them to stay. This may just be my imagination though.

For segment 8, everything looks excellent. Only thing I can think of to point out is the stumble when scrolling to the mana tonic.
berserker status
Quote from moooh:
Quote from RiskBreaker Y:

Edit:  got a Plateia Lumitar time of 1:32:54 but got hit with a poison mist...grrrrr....i'm gonna experiment and see if it's possible to complete the game with the poison status but i really doubt it...if only heal panels restored your status...fuck.


Yea, too bad there's no cure panel on your path either.

Can't say much about segment 7. Everything non luck based looks really good cept for that jump into the wall just before the teleportation part Smiley
From what I remember the Lich (and the ghost) tend to teleport away more frequently if you open the target sphere too quickly. If you give them slight more opportunity to initiate an attack (but not enough so that they'll actually get one of) you are more likely getting them to stay. This may just be my imagination though.

For segment 8, everything looks excellent. Only thing I can think of to point out is the stumble when scrolling to the mana tonic.



Yea i'll probably keep redoing the segment actually until i get something similar.  Having to use a Faerie Chortle just wastes too much time at this point.  One of those feather-winged demon things cast that status effect on me at the Temple of Kiltia but it's probably just faster getting hit by its crossbow.  Too bad i could only protect from paralysis, unless i went back into the menu of course (not gonna happen and i'm starting to really doubt that i'll get Phantom Pain at the end since it's the very last chain ability you learn i think).

Those little errors like jumping into the wall and particularly the Mana Tonic were a bit unsightly.  I knew where the Mana Tonic was but maybe i could've saved a second or three by scrolling up.  I'm not sure how many items exactly i had so i don't know for sure which would've been faster:  going up or going down like i did.

I don't really know much about the Lichs' patterns very much.  I seemed to be getting like a 50/50 initial hit rate on the first Lich but the other ones in the treasure rooms are much easier to land first.  When i first went through the room where i fought Neesa & Tieger, it's like a 100% certainty that you'll jump through the Lich's teleportation.  I don't ever remember getting bad luck there.  Too bad the other Lichs can cast spells from anywhere from the treasure rooms since they usually cast odd spells to absorb like Radial Surge Lv. 1.

I'm sitting on a pretty decent Limestone Quarry segment with like maybe 5 sec of errors (one missed ledge and clear trap panel at the dark coast; also i make a small error saving but not like the Abandoned Mines B2 mistake *shudder*) but the Temple of Kiltia seg is gonna come out pretty tight.  Hopefully i'll be able to get a good segment tomorrow and post them then.  The most annoying part is the Minotaur Lord because he can sometimes dodge a lot of chains and that can make the difference between getting a sub 1:33:00 time or not, even in one round kills).  The bosses at the Great Cathedral will take similar patience if i want to get through to the Atrium in sub 22-24 mins...
"Get thee gone, Darkness!!"
RiskBreaker Y:

Well, I'll be glad to see that VS (sub?) 2 hour First Playthrough Speed Run.  Looks to me like you got it pretty well down.  Sadly, I'm probably not the best guy to ask about all that because I haven't done a "fresh" VS playthrough in years.  If I was good at VS *in that way*, I'd do it myself.  There are certains things that can be done to save time in VS that, once you know the game, are fairly blatant, but it looks to me like you have got them pretty well covered.  I'll continue to watch your stuff and if something stands out, believe me, I'll say something.   

I will most likely record a VS New Game+ / Max Stats / Ultimate "Everything" Fastest Playthrough Speed Run this winter but I doubt too many people care to see that.  It's not so much a test of skill, like what you are doing, as it is a test of dedication to the game.  Besides, I already know, having been there, as I was the one playing it, all those years, what times are likely feasible and what times are most likely BS.  I can record my run but I already know what's what and it would just be a matter of proving what I already know to be true.  Let's just say that a 1:40ish time is doing damn good and *flying*. Wink

Of course, comparing a VS First Playthrough Speed Run to a VS New Game+ Speed Run is, in many event(s), like comparing apples to oranges.  Add Max Stats (and Ultimate Gear?) and they are completely different beasts.

P.S. Yes, Leather Armor is the best material choice when defending against magic.  Though, if you want to get technical, if you are aiming for magical defense your best bet is Ultimate Leather Hoplite Armor.  It's just that Dread Armor is harder to forge/make and for that reason many consider it the best.  Think of it as bragging rights.

Take Care and keep "hammering" away on VS.  Grin