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Ekelbatzen
2016-02-06 12:03:35 pm
I used some black magic programs to get a better look at the map layouts than we could guess with our previous exploits. I did some screenshots of levels we didn't have in-depth knowledge before and painted the route in (very professionally Tongue ).
Maybe this helps to find better routes or points of interest to go oob.

Level 5
Level 8
Level 11 Part 1
Level 11 Part 2
Level 13
Level 14
Level 15
Level 16
Level 17 Part 1
Level 17 Part 2
Level 19

Also on level 21 (Wind tunnel), the end level trigger is not even activated at first, so learning to go oob has probably no use on this level entirely.
Ekelbatzen
2016-02-09 07:53:35 am
Oh yeah I forgot to mention: While level 8 is annoying because you can't skip this giant autoscroller level, I found something that makes the run easier. (I don't know if this was obvious for everyone, but for me this was new):

The flying mines. I thought they had some HP value and you would have to shoot each until they explode, but one hit is enough for them to detonate. So you can just hold your fire (leading shots ahead of course) over some mines and if you hit they will explode. This just makes it faster to shoot all mines, which does not speed up the level, but leaves more time to defend against the planes which are the real threat.
zato
zato
Edit history:
zato: 2016-02-09 11:29:18 am
2016-02-09 11:28:34 am
I managed to skip the first phase of the final boss.


I did the level normal up until you get the weapons, the fist enemy you encounter has an assault rifle so I took it and ran back down to the alley, then used the red barrel to get to the top. There is a change in colors and settings after the quicksave because you can't do the out of bounds with settings set to high (or at least I couldn't)
Right after the quicksave, you have to align yourself with the pilar otherwise you fall down, same thing later after you wait to sink enough to go forward, if you go trough the white blocks you fall as well.
I don't know if this saves time or not but I'm almost positive it's the only way... maybe... I found another way but it's not even worth mentioning because how slow it is.
Ekelbatzen
2016-02-09 11:44:49 am
Very nice! I still thought the boss would not move at the end if we wouldn't have hit the fight triggers before.
As you know the sinking speed is determined by your fps or something similar, so we could adjust that for the part where you have to wait. Also you can get under there faster by crouching.
The method to get into bounds again at 1:05 seems to get helpful, I wish we could find something like that to get out of bounds in the first place...

I will try to replicate your route and run it efficiently to compare times in the next hours/days.

Could you still post(or just describe) your other slow route that you found? Even though it might not be useful, it might be interesting to know where else we could go or even if you did a new trick to achieve that.
Ekelbatzen
2016-02-09 01:14:38 pm
Quote from Rob1n:
The method to get into bounds again at 1:05 seems to get helpful

Nevermind, this particular door entity just has anti-clip properties, so you can just walk through it into bounds.


Using the red barrel is also possible with the shotgun, which saves the time to get the karbine.
I timed it with your route after this and with vsync enabled (I sunk faster than you then and ended up in the last room instead), but it was only about the same time as the 2015 route.
But I found a fork to your route where you don't have to wait to sink below that wall. I crouch under the floor, get into bounds by standing up - crouching - standing up, jump normally through the window and continue to walk with vsync on to sink faster. This saves ~3s altogether if done a bit better than in the video.

Jumping over the roof thingies feels always inefficient though, as well as the walk down after getting the weapons, maybe there is something faster possible. Ideas?
zato
zato
Edit history:
zato: 2016-02-09 06:08:48 pm
zato: 2016-02-09 05:37:34 pm
zato: 2016-02-09 05:36:47 pm
2016-02-09 05:36:12 pm
Yes, getting stuck between the dumpster door and the wall might negate fall damage, but without rifle grenades it may prove difficult. Haven't tested anything yet so we'll see.

Nice work finding the windows shortcut



it's... yeah
Ekelbatzen
2016-02-09 11:21:40 pm
Interesting approach, you get all over the place. Wink

I found a way down, but I'm still experimenting around with the jump after that.
I get the karbine now too, go back, use the ladder, jump down immediately (jumping down there without grabbing the ladder is kind of impossible without slowing down), go straight and jump over the only railing that doesn't have a high clip.
Before falling to death on the roof below there I quicksave. For the next segment you end up at approximately the roof where I jump to first on the new level 1 route after I get my first gun. From there you can shoot the red barrel with a karbine grenade away from the wall while walking down and shooting it along the alley.

I am also experimenting around if it is possible to not jump into our corner we jumped to in our videos, but to jump further to the left (left as seen while flying backwards), so we fly past a little over the white block and maybe reach the roof thingies of the next alley. This might be one of the tricky jumps.
zato
2016-02-10 03:39:24 am
If I understood correctly, you don't need to quicksave.


I messed up a little but you don't have to go all the way back on the second level, if you just touch it a little you can go down faster, but it's easy to fall straight down and die.
Ekelbatzen
2016-02-10 10:01:53 am
Nice, but I think doing a cut before attempting the jump would be wise even if the fall wouldn't kill you.
You know how many tries it takes to do everything right and to land on the roof fast. Wink

Instead of doing the first cut in the room before the fight we can do it here and maybe another one immediately after the jump, the rest of the level is a cakewalk then. It is still easy to move in the wrong direction directly after you succeed with the jump because flying is disorienting, segmenting helps there.
Ekelbatzen
2016-02-10 02:23:57 pm

So getting the karbine but therefore jumping down the balcony cancel each other out timewise.
But just getting grenades + shotgun is still enough while jumping down the balcony.
There may be still 1-2s to gain by jumping along the roof better and getting stuck less in oob after the jump.

I found jumping over the white block to not be useful, there is still an oob wall between the roof things and the end of the white block, so we would lose many seconds floating through there.
Ekelbatzen
Ekelbatzen
Edit history:
Ekelbatzen: 2016-02-17 04:33:55 pm
2016-02-17 04:32:48 pm
I found another alternative route for level 1 which saves ~6s.

We kind of tried this before from that street, but now we know we can reach the end level trigger with this.
Right after the fence there is another high clip wall, you can't jump over it from the ground with a double grenade jump, but you can do it like in the video. You also have to abuse that you can quicksave before falling to death and get a little height boost before sinking further into oob at 0:20.

Edit: 10s less in total and we can theoratically get the run below 40 minutes now. Smiley
zato
2016-02-18 05:10:06 am
Im not sure how this whole quicksaving before death works, is it random when it lets you do it? So far I've learned that when the game knows you are going to die, it doesn't let you save but when you are in the air and the fall is survivable, then it does.
Ekelbatzen
2016-02-18 05:13:51 am
From my experience you can't do it when you were stuck in oob and falling down, but you can do it when you do your nade jumps or jump somewhere normally.
So I guess you can still do it as long as your jump was initiated by jumping from the ground and not being boosted or falling from out of bounds.
Ekelbatzen
Ekelbatzen
Edit history:
Ekelbatzen: 2016-02-28 10:23:53 am
Ekelbatzen: 2016-02-28 10:23:42 am
Ekelbatzen: 2016-02-28 10:23:23 am
2016-02-18 07:13:29 am
I created a prototype script for the LiveSplit timer, which should automatically detect when the game is starting and when levels are changing, and also pauses for loading screens:
http://pastebin.com/6k1zjMvN
https://github.com/Ekelbatzen/LiveSplit.Scripts/blob/master/TimeShift.asl
I will test if this continues to work in the next SS streams. Works so far!

Edit: Script is now in active LiveSplit build, so it's automatically there when you use the current version.
Ekelbatzen
2016-02-18 05:19:54 pm
I noticed in level 5 by the prison area that I could proceed even without killing all the guys in front of the doors first.
I guess this may work if you don't make sounds and don't walk towards the door until it opens, I will have to experiment a bit more there.
Twitch recording, starts at 10:25 video time/9:45 game time
Ekelbatzen
2016-02-20 06:01:16 am
This works even without sneaking or standing back, as long as you don't produce noise with your own bullets or your own grenades it seems that you can just walk through.
This saves ~4s compared to 2015 and ~3s more than the last time I showed a video with a similar approach some days back.
zato
2016-02-20 06:02:50 am
Quote from Ekelbatzen:
This works even without sneaking or standing back, as long as you don't produce noise with your own bullets or your own grenades it seems that you can just walk through.
This saves ~4s compared to 2015 and ~3s more than the last time I showed a video with a similar approach some days back.


Finally! the code has been cracked!
Ekelbatzen
2016-02-25 05:41:48 pm
Why didn't we try a barrel jump before in level 20? It was already really short, but there is still more potential:

But I had to wait before the video to get the time powers because I ended level 19 with no powers left.
-> I had none left in level 19 because I was barrel jumping right into the level trigger like here on level 20. I exited the jump with no powers left and had not enough time to regenerate.
-> I exited the level 19 barrel jump with no time powers because it drains rapidly when there is not much time between system events and the jump.
-> That system event was loading the quick save right before the jump.

Concluding: This is maybe possible without waiting if I do the end of level 19 with an earlier save before I do that jump (Which is already really hard).

If everything discussed so far would work in the run, it could get below 40 minutes now. Smiley
Ekelbatzen
2016-02-26 06:44:08 am
I did a similar approach as you did in 2015, zato/herme, and used the barrel in level 4 to save addional ~7 seconds to the new route:

(Btw do you still want to be called zato or herme now here? You can get your username changed if you ask moooh nicely).

The tricky part is that that barrel is the first well usable barrel in the level and that you can't hit the building in between the barrel and the end, or you would get stuck there. So you have to do a very vertical jump and maneuver mid-air.

Also you apparently only need 1 grenade to jump over the barbed wire, which is also necessary because you need to start level 5 with 2 karbine grenades.
You don't have to hit the button in the end room to activate the trigger, the trigger is just at the back half of the room and has infinite height.
zato
2016-02-26 08:13:53 am
Well I don't remember why I chose that username nine years ago, I've used HeRMe for almost 15 years now. Back to the speedrun!
On level 20, I've tried stuff like that before but I thought ~30 seconds was already way to hard to beat, also I was always focusing on hitting the trigger first and didn't know that the end level trigger was up there. I've always liked that level the way it was, but clearly the potential is there to shave a significant amount of time.
Nice work on level 4 also.

I been trying to find places to do quicksaves before death, the first place it came to mind is the jump on level 23 when you have to reach the train at the end of the level but can't quite reach it yet.
Ekelbatzen
2016-02-26 10:04:09 am
Like this?

If executed better this can save 1, maybe even 2 seconds.

I thought at first fall-quicksaving was disabled because the game also disabled time reverse for some reason, but it helps if you just spam the quicksave button a few times.

Also apparently the time guard can spawn on the train.
zato
2016-02-28 01:11:49 pm
Yep, that's pretty much it, using two grenades doesn't seem to make much of a difference.
Next quicksave jump I found is on level two, after using the barrel to get to the tower you can drop down and quick save, you don't actually have to do it but could be helpful nonetheless. Once I dropped down I noticed some green barrels on the left next to the trucks, I tried to use one of them to launch myself in the direction of the tower (so we don't have to do all that walking) but there is an invisible wall on the sky that keeps me from going forward, maybe if the barrel doesn't launch me that high it could work but I'm not so sure.
Ekelbatzen
2016-02-28 01:15:32 pm
I'm still not quite sure about falling damage logic, sometimes I die after the first barrel jump on level 2, sometimes I don't. In those cases where I don't, like in the 2015 run video, quicksaving is not necessary.

I also had the idea of not walking towards the tower after that, but haven't even tried to use the barrels. I guess pushing them all the way back to the crossing would take too long, going to test this now...
Ekelbatzen
2016-02-28 01:27:06 pm
I thought you were just getting stuck in the building clip way above, but it also won't work if you push the barrel back to my route on the street first to fly in a straight line.
The part where the street ends we enter a wide and infinitely large oob block and get stuck there. And pushing the barrel someplace else first would take too long I think.
Ekelbatzen
2016-03-09 03:34:12 pm
Level 14 and 15 again:
I thought of a better route, a more obvious one.

Earlier I wanted to avoid doing the new triple jump in level 14 instead of the chair jump because it would use up 2 karbine grenades, which could have been used for your level 15 jump to the catwalk. Even though this could save 5 seconds compared to the chair jump.

But I forgot that there is literally an ammo box right at the last ladder in level 14, so it would just take 1 second to re-stock.
We then have all 4 karbine grenades for level 15, which means I can even replace the first grenade-crossbow-jump with a normal karbine jump, followed by a double nade jump to the catwalk and have 1 karbine grenade to spare. Which we need for level 16 to jump off the transport belt. (After which I re-stock again, so no dependencies after this)


(The first video segment looks messed up because I literally just used the half-sized video part of the last rendered video of this, the jump is really hard...)