Sonic Adventure 2 Hero/Dark Story

Manocheese

Edit history:

Manocheese: 2008-02-01 06:22:38 am

2008-02-01 05:51:10 am

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Quote:

(I would be more than happy to read all 17 pages... but... well... theres 17 of them -_-)

Oh no, 17 whole pages! :bawl: Be glad it's not over 500 pages like the TP topic.

Paused

Edit history:

Paused: 2008-02-01 02:51:32 pm

2008-02-01 02:51:04 pm

Quote:

just wondering if theres any key info I should study before I start my run.

(I would be more than happy to read all 17 pages... but... well... theres 17 of them -_-)

Oh... and the vid wont play for me...

http://www.soniccenter.org/

... Is the key info source. I would go indepth, but a tad busy now.. Might edit my post later.

Yeah, 17 pages is not quite a big deal.

And try downloading VLC to play the video. Just Google it. It plays everything.

zabuzafreak

2008-02-05 09:05:32 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

yeh, I haven't tried to save target as, but when I clicked it, it just like... kinda crashed my wmp. Anyway, I already have VLC so I will take a look to see what I am missing..

btw, on a test run (not recorded, just practicing), it took me about 40 mins... and that was including multiple deaths trying to pull off some shortcuts. (crazy gadget took like 4 lives alone)

paragod64

2008-02-10 03:23:30 am

i just watched it

pretty good run!

obviously I am all about sonic levels, so:

city escape was disappointing, I did not expect sub 1:50 or anything, but it seems like you would of gotten 1:59 or so since I got 1:51 without powerups and that was when I was pretty bad at the level, and was before I figured it is a good idea to spindash the hills on the truck section and HOW to time them. how come you did not spindash the truck hills anyway? it is fairly easy to get consistent at doing it once you do it properly a few times, and it woulda saved tons of time especially since you do not have a bounce ball to quickly land when you fly off. other than that and the fact you did an accidental roll right at the beginning(shoulda restarted after such a silly mistake :P) it was pretty good, but I really wanted to see 1:59 or better since you are THE god of this game. maybe next time, if there is one.

Metal harbor: pretty good, except you got cautious at the last loop and screwed up the rocket part, but hey I do that sometimes so it is no big deal.

green forest: great, it is easy to screw up that 30 sec loop shortcut

in pyramid cave 2:07 is a very nice time since I got 2:10 on average when I did my no powerup runs, with the best being only a sucky 2:05 and worst being around a terrible 2:13 I did not know about the 2 loop skipping tricks you did on the first loop right after the ramp and the other one later on

1:56 is pretty good for crazy gadget, since I just remembered you gotta grab a stupid useless uprade they

i just watched it

pretty good run!

obviously I am all about sonic levels, so:

city escape was disappointing, I did not expect sub 1:50 or anything, but it seems like you would of gotten 1:59 or so since I got 1:51 without powerups and that was when I was pretty  bad at the level, and was before I figured it is a good idea to spindash the hills on the truck section and HOW to time them. how come you did not spindash the truck hills anyway? it is fairly easy to get consistent at doing it once you do it properly a few times, and it woulda saved tons of time especially since you do not have a bounce ball to quickly land when you fly off. other than that and the fact you did an accidental roll right at the beginning(shoulda restarted after such a silly mistake :P) it was pretty good, but I really wanted to see 1:59 or better since you are THE god of this game. maybe next time, if there is one.

Metal harbor: pretty good, except you got cautious at the last loop and screwed up the rocket part, but hey I do that sometimes so it is no big deal.

green forest: great, it is easy to screw up that 30 sec loop shortcut

in pyramid cave 2:07 is a very nice time since I got 2:10 on average when I did my no powerup runs, with the best being only a sucky 2:05 and worst being around a terrible 2:13 I did not know about the 2 loop skipping tricks you did on the first loop right after the ramp and the other one later on

1:56 is pretty good for crazy gadget, since I just remembered you gotta grab a stupid useless uprade they

yoshifan

2008-02-14 11:29:49 pm

I thought you set the bar really high in the Sonic levels, so I'm glad to see positive comments. Wink

Though for City Escape, I agree that the end is a cause for concern, particularly because it can be done consistently well with the right strategy (as you and Stefan have said). If I come back to this run, that would be one of the main things to improve.

Paragod64

2008-02-17 12:02:20 am

Hey, sorry about not finishing up my comments, I don't know what happened but I am just now realizing that over half of my post just... wasn't there for some reason, let me try again(grr i gotta type all that again!?)

Crazy gadget: like I said this one was pretty good, I used to get a little worse cause I would think I am playing the level normally and forget about the powerup lol. you say your best attempt in a run was 1:50, that is quite good, about what I would hope for myself.

Final Rush: you suck, for being so overcautious on that 33 second rail! hehe nah i am just kidding, you did took that rail much more bravely than I would have, for me it is the easiest thing to mess up in the whole level.

thats about it for those.. other than city escape you performed much better than I'd have expected, but really why should I expect less from somebody whose way better than me, but refuses to take a little bit of time to practice and prove it.

seriously, (if) you still compete at TSC, play any sonic level( preferrably city escape) and start playing it alot. by alot I mean maybe an hour a day or something when you do play. I guarantee once you practice enough to get the feel of the level like I did, I bet to can pull off a flawless 1:35 and knock me and my sucky 1:36 off the platinum spot for good. I just could not do it... even the 1:36 that shocked me to get had visable flaws, but you are just so much BETTER than me you could do that magical 1:35 with probably half as much practice as me. everybody would be shocked, and happy since they like you holding the record waay better than someone as unliked as me. just consider it.. if you succeed, do the same to every one of my records!

waay offtopic but even tho I have less experience with the rest of the game I will still comment about the rest since I know enough I guess.

Prison lane: quite good, when I did my hero attempts(with powerups!) I would sometimes get that time, so without poweups must be great, and you got 1:38 once?? that is better than I have ever gotten speedrun or not I believe...

mission street: a pretty simple level without much to comment about, but its good, I believe my best ever was 2:31 or so without powerups but I have no idea really since it has been so long.

Hidden base: very good, not having the upgraded gun cannon thing does make a ton of difference, I would be happy to get 1:57 with powerups.

Eternal engine: I seriously have played this level almost not at all, but 3:03 with 2:51!! has to be great, especially on GC. good job!

All the hunting levels: holy zykoneticalrejinatorolism, every single one was great.

I actually beat you one time on wild canyon when I got that insane 20 sec run, but 9/10 times I would get over a minute, lotta times being 1:30+ :/ 40 is perfectly acceptable for any standard.

on pumpkin hill my goal was 2 minutes and I would go over that half the time, with a best being 1:12 but very lucky, under a minute is great again

AQ Mine seems slow for you, but still way faster than I have ever done it, 0:29 sounds especially wild

in death chamber, 1:12 is wild as can be, I would be LUCKY to do it in 3 minutes, average of 5(lmao) and sometimes 10+ cause it is such a maze of a level.

meteor herd was actually easier for me than death chamber, but I would still get nowhere near your time. just totally awesome.

for the bosses.. I have one complaint. you let bigfoot get away with an extra 10 seconds of life? if you mess a jump up and don't get atleast 25 you HAVE to restart man Tongue

other than him, shadow was good, KBB was great since I have never done a super 4 hit for TSC even, and you can do it everytime like it is nothing. egg golem sounds pretty good for no crazy bounce ball strategy that doesn't work AT ALL for me for some reason, rogue was insane cause somehow she did not block any hits and make the fight last 30+ sec, and finally your last shadow and e-man(almost fman) were a great finale to the run. I HATE shadow 2, it always takes me over a minute

yeah that last paragraph was worded very badly( sorry, I should have laid it out different)

but what is funny is, you probably saved OVER 15 minutes just on the bosses and hunting levels compared to what I could ever do at absolute best, alot of the hunting probably cause I cannot remember every hint like you probably can. and bosses I don't know I just am a huge failure at when it comes to speed.

well to finally wrap it up, I really liked that run and you did a really great job making it, such hard work for the sole purpose of entertaining us thanks a lot! Smiley

I kinda feel bad for not doing it myself which forced you to do it.. but you probably woulda played anyway and beat the heck outa me with your superior overall game knowledge and ability.

Hey, sorry about not finishing up my comments, I don't know what happened but I am just now realizing that over half of my post just... wasn't there for some reason, let me try again(grr i gotta type all that again!?)

Crazy gadget: like I said this one was pretty good, I used to get  a little worse cause I would think I am playing the level normally and forget about the powerup lol. you say your best attempt in a run was 1:50, that is quite good, about what I would hope for myself.

Final Rush: you suck, for being so overcautious on that 33 second rail! hehe nah i am just kidding, you did took that rail much more bravely than I would have, for me it is the easiest thing to mess up in the whole level.

thats about it for those.. other than city escape you performed much better than I'd have expected, but really why should I expect less from somebody whose way better than me, but refuses to take a little bit of time to practice and prove it.

seriously, (if) you still compete at TSC, play any sonic level( preferrably city escape) and start playing it alot. by alot I mean maybe an hour a day or something when you do play. I guarantee once you practice enough to get the feel of the level like I did, I bet to can pull off a flawless 1:35 and knock me and my sucky 1:36 off the platinum spot for good. I just could not do it... even the 1:36 that shocked me to get had visable flaws, but you are just so much BETTER than me you could do that magical 1:35 with probably half as much practice as me. everybody would be shocked, and happy since they like you holding the record waay better than someone as unliked as me. just consider it.. if you succeed, do the same to every one of my records!

waay offtopic but even tho I have less experience with the rest of the game I will still comment about the rest since I know enough I guess.

Prison lane: quite good, when I did my hero attempts(with powerups!) I would sometimes get that time, so without poweups must be great, and you got 1:38 once?? that is better than I have ever gotten speedrun or not I believe...

mission street: a pretty simple level without much to comment about, but its good, I believe my best ever was 2:31 or so without powerups but I have no idea really since it has been so long.

Hidden base: very good, not having the upgraded gun cannon thing does make a ton of difference, I would be happy to get 1:57 with powerups.

Eternal engine: I seriously have played this level almost not at all, but 3:03 with 2:51!! has to be great, especially on GC. good job!

All the hunting levels: holy zykoneticalrejinatorolism, every single one was great.

I actually beat you one time on wild canyon when I got that insane 20 sec run, but 9/10 times I would get over a minute, lotta times being 1:30+ :/ 40 is perfectly acceptable for any standard.

on pumpkin hill my goal was 2 minutes and I would go over that half the time, with a best being 1:12 but very lucky, under a minute is great again

AQ Mine seems slow for you, but still way faster than I have ever done it, 0:29 sounds especially wild

in death chamber, 1:12 is wild as can be, I would be LUCKY to do it in 3 minutes, average of 5(lmao) and sometimes 10+ cause it is such a maze of a level.

meteor herd was actually easier for me than death chamber, but I would still get nowhere near your time. just totally awesome.

for the bosses.. I have one complaint. you let bigfoot get away with an extra 10 seconds of life? if you mess a jump up and don't get atleast 25 you HAVE to restart man :P other than him, shadow was good, KBB was great since I have never done a super 4 hit for TSC even, and you can do it everytime like it is nothing. egg golem sounds pretty good for no crazy bounce ball strategy that doesn't work AT ALL for me for some reason, rogue was insane cause somehow she did not block any hits and make the fight last  30+ sec, and finally your last shadow and e-man(almost fman) were a great finale to the run.  I HATE shadow 2, it always takes me over a minute

yeah that last paragraph was worded very badly( sorry, I should have laid it out different)

but what is funny is, you probably saved OVER 15 minutes just on the bosses and hunting levels compared to what I could ever do at absolute best, alot of the hunting probably cause I cannot remember every hint like you probably can. and bosses I don't know I just am a huge failure at when it comes to speed.

well to finally wrap it up, I really liked that run and you did a really great job making it, such hard work for the sole purpose of entertaining us thanks a lot! :) I kinda feel bad for not doing it myself which forced you to do it.. but you probably woulda played anyway and beat the heck outa me with your superior overall game knowledge and ability.

Paragod64

Radix

Edit history:

Radix: 2008-02-17 05:15:40 pm

2008-02-17 12:10:26 am

yeah I did set the bar kind of high for a few levels(metal harbor and green hill are my only flawless runs) the rest are kinda good, but like I said in the previous post I would love to see you beat them all because I know you could do it so much better once you practice enough to realize you are that much better than me. if you want to start easier than CE like I mentioned before... do pyramid cave or final rush, pyramid cave can goto 1:50 with your tricks I did not know about and the omochao trick(after you put the second green key into place, don't pay any attention at all to the hourglass and spindash through omochao and hope he activates it for you, that saves atleast 2 seconds off my 1:54 that was not even close to flawless to begin with.

Green forest is weak too since 1:31 can be done, but the luck factors make me sick Sad

1:39 can be done on crazy gadget with insanity, but 1:40 would be really great as well.

but yeah, like i said.. if you still play, stop messing around with silly levels and bosses and take a week or two and beat me! once you get good overall you will find every sonic record of mine easy. you won't ever have to worry about me improving, I am very bad at the game now with little motive to play.

yeah I did set the bar kind of high for a few levels(metal harbor and green hill are my only flawless runs) the rest are kinda good, but like I said in the previous post I would love to see you beat them all because I know you could do it so much better once you practice enough to realize you are that much better than me. if you want to start easier than CE like I mentioned before... do pyramid cave or final rush, pyramid cave can goto 1:50 with your tricks I did not know about and the omochao trick(after you put the second green key into place, don't pay any attention at all to the hourglass and spindash through omochao and hope he activates it for you, that saves atleast 2 seconds off my 1:54 that was not even close to flawless to begin with.

Green forest is weak too since 1:31 can be done, but the luck factors make me sick :(

1:39 can be done on crazy gadget with insanity, but 1:40 would be really great as well.

but yeah, like i said.. if you still play, stop messing around with silly levels and bosses and take a week or two and beat me! once you get good overall you will find every sonic record of mine easy. you won't ever have to worry about me improving, I am very bad at the game now with little motive to play.

petrie911

2008-02-17 12:19:50 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

So...what do you think of my run?

Also, don't you have an account here (X9)?

HalfMillennium

2008-04-11 08:56:13 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Well...

City Escape: Impressive, you went down the last section very fast.

Big Foot: Could have been better, but in a Single-Segment it's nothing major.

Wild Canyon: I think you messed up the second Emerald Shard slightly, but good otherwise.

Shadow: Impressive performance.

Hidden Base: I was very impressed with how quickly you did this.

King Boom Boo: To do something which has such a tight time limit this far into a run is great.

Meteor Herd: Very well done considering how big the level is and how many clues there are.

Rouge: I think you did this well.

Crazy Gadget: Amazing. I wouldn't have thought sub-3 minutes was possible, never mind sub-2.

Eggman 2: I'm amazed you even beat him this far into the run.

Final Rush: Some big shortcuts, very risky this late in the run, but very well executed when you did them.

stanski

2008-04-12 07:17:15 am

wise fwom yo gwave

Forgot to post before petrie: loved the run, great job making an awkward handling game look smooth!

Kryal

2008-04-15 04:36:19 pm

from red to blue

I'm very late to the crowd here, but I just wanted to congratulate Petrie and Yoshifan for their excellent runs!

Shadow Jacky

2008-12-23 11:30:04 am

fucking .gif....

seems someone has beaten the dark time.

http://www.youtube.com/user/blazest

SadisticMystic

2008-12-23 10:38:42 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I don't think it quite beats the existing run because of a very poor Security Hall including a long-delayed death there, and a death by attrition in Tails 1. Let's see how it stacks up...

IG: 2:07.89 (-0.30)
HS 23.87 (+0.75 | +0.45)
DL 54.44 (+2.81 | +3.26)
SO 2:48.69 (+21.39 | +24.65)
RH 1:52.07 + 7.25 (-7.77 | +16.88)
EQ 1:26.25 (+26.31 | +43.19)
LC 2:29.35 (-4.34 | +38.85)
WB 1:43.30 (+7.73 | +46.58)
T1 14.82 + 15.95 (+17.27 | +63.85)
SH 1:14.12 + 44.62 (+68.95 | +131.80)
FD 41.15 (-8.49 | +123.31)
WJ 1:46.19 (-10.28 | +113.03)
S1 13.10 (-4.69 | +108.34)
R2 2:46.79 (-7.10 | +101.24)
SR 58.14 (-1.56 | +99.68)
MS 1:51.89 (-15.83 | +83.85)
K1 15.10 (-2.80 | +81.05)
CW 4:03.85* (-59.99 | +21.06)
T2 16.15 (-4.29 | +16.77)
FC 2:55.32 (-41.88 | -25.11)
S2 23.82 (-19.90 | -45.01)

*In Cosmic Wall, he hovers through the wall/ceiling at checkpoint 3 and then gets to pass through the following area in free-roam rather than autoscroll. Rather than continue forward from where the autoscroll leaves off, he chooses to go around the side of everything from that point on, not actually interacting with any solid objects until the goal ring at the very end--having been in a continuous hover for almost 3 minutes in order to traverse the length of this huge stage. The initial OOB breakout might cause the run to be thrown out by SDA. (Also noteworthy is that he appears to have lost track of the direction he was traveling, taking an exorbitantly long time to steer back and figure out where the last tunnel is, and STILL took 3599 frames off petrie's mark.)

So it does come out ahead after all, even with the abysmal SH performance (assuming CW is allowed)! If not for the SH death, or even the Tails 1 death, the new run is far enough ahead that it wouldn't even need Cosmic Wall!

I don't think it quite beats the existing run because of a very poor Security Hall including a long-delayed death there, and a death by attrition in Tails 1. Let's see how it stacks up...

IG: 2:07.89 (-0.30)
HS 23.87 (+0.75 | +0.45)
DL 54.44 (+2.81 | +3.26)
SO 2:48.69 (+21.39 | +24.65)
RH 1:52.07 + 7.25 (-7.77 | +16.88)
EQ 1:26.25 (+26.31 | +43.19)
LC 2:29.35 (-4.34 | +38.85)
WB 1:43.30 (+7.73 | +46.58)
T1 14.82 + 15.95 (+17.27 | +63.85)
SH 1:14.12 + 44.62 (+68.95 | +131.80)
FD 41.15 (-8.49 | +123.31)
WJ 1:46.19 (-10.28 | +113.03)
S1 13.10 (-4.69 | +108.34)
R2 2:46.79 (-7.10 | +101.24)
SR 58.14 (-1.56 | +99.68)
MS 1:51.89 (-15.83 | +83.85)
K1 15.10 (-2.80 | +81.05)
CW 4:03.85* (-59.99 | +21.06)
T2 16.15 (-4.29 | +16.77)
FC 2:55.32 (-41.88 | -25.11)
S2 23.82 (-19.90 | -45.01)

*In Cosmic Wall, he hovers through the wall/ceiling at checkpoint 3 and then gets to pass through the following area in free-roam rather than autoscroll. Rather than continue forward from where the autoscroll leaves off, he chooses to go around the side of everything from that point on, not actually interacting with any solid objects until the goal ring at the very end--having been in a continuous hover for almost 3 minutes in order to traverse the length of this huge stage. The initial OOB breakout might cause the run to be thrown out by SDA. (Also noteworthy is that he appears to have lost track of the direction he was traveling, taking an exorbitantly long time to steer back and figure out where the last tunnel is, and STILL took 3599 frames off petrie's mark.)

So it does come out ahead after all, even with the abysmal SH performance (assuming CW is allowed)! If not for the SH death, or even the Tails 1 death, the new run is far enough ahead that it wouldn't even need Cosmic Wall!

Satoryu

2008-12-23 10:50:24 pm

Visually Appealing

OoB is fair game now. this run wouldn't be subject to rejection because of it. however, it would be rejected because of sloppy gameplay.

yoshifan

2008-12-24 01:04:42 am

Just for the record, Blaze-san is the second-ranked SA2 player at The Sonic Center - he didn't just come out of the blue. Still, I was surprised to see that he tried a speedrun.

I get 32:58.26 as Blaze's time when counting the deaths. As his video description says, it would be 31:50.44 without the deaths. As SM pointed out, there was Security Hall, but I guess the time differences from Petrie's run go both ways. Here's what I rather liked in Blaze's run:

Radical Highway - an unfortunate death, but the time was very good.
Flying Dog - I like the strategy for the last 3 hits, never knew about it.
White Jungle
Route 280
Knuckles
Final Chase - relatively smooth, and I remember having trouble with the 1:56 shortcut myself.
Sonic 2 - I wasn't brave enough to try this strategy in my run.

Also, if you combine the best parts of Blaze's and Petrie's runs, you get something close to 30:30. Smiley

Take some more time off of Mad Space, and you get an idea of a pretty-close-to-optimal time for this run.

Just for the record, Blaze-san is the second-ranked SA2 player at The Sonic Center - he didn't just come out of the blue.  Still, I was surprised to see that he tried a speedrun.

I get 32:58.26 as Blaze's time when counting the deaths.  As his video description says, it would be 31:50.44 without the deaths.  As SM pointed out, there was Security Hall, but I guess the time differences from Petrie's run go both ways.  Here's what I rather liked in Blaze's run:

Radical Highway - an unfortunate death, but the time was very good.
Flying Dog - I like the strategy for the last 3 hits, never knew about it.
White Jungle
Route 280
Knuckles
Final Chase - relatively smooth, and I remember having trouble with the 1:56 shortcut myself.
Sonic 2 - I wasn't brave enough to try this strategy in my run.

Also, if you combine the best parts of Blaze's and Petrie's runs, you get something close to 30:30. :)  Take some more time off of Mad Space, and you get an idea of a pretty-close-to-optimal time for this run.

petrie911

2008-12-24 02:38:57 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Well, now that I've watched it, I have comments

Iron Gate--Seems pretty much the same as mine. I think my elevator idle actions are better though...>_>

Hot Shot--Interesting strategy. It seems like it would be faster, and yet it isn't. Odd.

Dry Lagoon--He seems to be doing about the same thing as I did.

Sand Ocean--After all the work I put into getting this stage really down pat, that was painful to watch. Other than the SH death, this is his biggest time loss over my run.

Radical Highway--Ouch. I really needed work on my speed levels. I played the bridge skip too safe, and missed that one rising platform before the 2nd check. Is continuously spindashing like that significantly faster? Because, if so, that probably would have helped.

Egg Quarters--He makes a major error here--he should have checked a monitor in the Blue room. This would have told him that he needed to go back to the Red Room and saved him a ton of running. Otherwise, I'd say our emerald placements were comparable.

Lost Colony--About the same strat, about the same time. Nice touch with the speed boost, though.

Weapons Bed--He doesn't use the shortcut at the beginning. I think that's all

Tails 1--Hehe, the optimal strategy to beat Tails 1 is to hit him with a cannon shot, then face him and mash B. He runs out of health before you do every time.

Security Hall--Oh God, the horror. He has a truly amazing emerald placement, and just completely botches it. Should probably practice this level a bit more.

Flying Dog--He pulls off the instant hit, which I think makes up most of the time gained.

White Jungle through Egg Golem--I think this is largely summed up by "same idea, better execution (on his part)"

Mad Space--I would have come out ahead if it weren't for that crap about digging up the second shard. The two placements are about equally good.

Knuckles--well, that didn't get annoying in the slightest...still, not a huge difference.

Cosmic Wall--Well, that was boring. I'll take your word on it being able to be done faster SM, as I'm completely unfamiliar with this. I like my version better, though...>_>

Tails 2--nice.

Final Chase--Ugh. let's just leave it at that.

Sonic 2--huh, that's a new strat to me. Seems to work out fine, although I wonder how consistent it is.

Overall, I'd still say that the improvement is mostly due to the CW trick, although I won't discount the improvement to Final Chase (grumble).

I wonder if we could get him to submit to SDA. Maybe not this run, but he indicated he was trying for a better one. I also wonder if he'd seen my run before this.

Oh, and SM, you forgot Egg Golem. Not that it makes a difference.

EDIT: hmmm....close to 30:30, you say. the best Mad Space time I've ever had was 1:15, which would put the time sub-30. So it is possible (in principle).

Well, now that I've watched it, I have comments

Iron Gate--Seems pretty much the same as mine.  I think my elevator idle actions are better though...>_>

Hot Shot--Interesting strategy.  It seems like it would be faster, and yet it isn't.  Odd.

Dry Lagoon--He seems to be doing about the same thing as I did.

Sand Ocean--After all the work I put into getting this stage really down pat, that was painful to watch.  Other than the SH death, this is his biggest time loss over my run.

Radical Highway--Ouch.  I really needed work on my speed levels.  I played the bridge skip too safe, and missed that one rising platform before the 2nd check.  Is continuously spindashing like that significantly faster?  Because, if so, that probably would have helped.

Egg Quarters--He makes a major error here--he should have checked a monitor in the Blue room.  This would have told him that he needed to go back to the Red Room and saved him a ton of running.  Otherwise, I'd say our emerald placements were comparable.

Lost Colony--About the same strat, about the same time.  Nice touch with the speed boost, though.

Weapons Bed--He doesn't use the shortcut at the beginning.  I think that's all

Tails 1--Hehe, the optimal strategy to beat Tails 1 is to hit him with a cannon shot, then face him and mash B.  He runs out of health before you do every time.

Security Hall--Oh God, the horror.  He has a truly amazing emerald placement, and just completely botches it.  Should probably practice this level a bit more.

Flying Dog--He pulls off the instant hit, which I think makes up most of the time gained.

White Jungle through Egg Golem--I think this is largely summed up by "same idea, better execution (on his part)"

Mad Space--I would have come out ahead if it weren't for that crap about digging up the second shard.  The two placements are about equally good.

Knuckles--well, that didn't get annoying in the slightest...still, not a huge difference.

Cosmic Wall--Well, that was boring.  I'll take your word on it being able to be done faster SM, as I'm completely unfamiliar with this.  I like my version better, though...>_>

Tails 2--nice.

Final Chase--Ugh.  let's just leave it at that.

Sonic 2--huh, that's a new strat to me.  Seems to work out fine, although I wonder how consistent it is.

Overall, I'd still say that the improvement is mostly due to the CW trick, although I won't discount the improvement to Final Chase (grumble).

I wonder if we could get him to submit to SDA.  Maybe not this run, but he indicated he was trying for a better one.  I also wonder if he'd seen my run before this.

Oh, and SM, you forgot Egg Golem.  Not that it makes a difference.

EDIT: hmmm....close to 30:30, you say.  the best Mad Space time I've ever had was 1:15, which would put the time sub-30.  So it is possible (in principle).

yoshifan

2008-12-24 01:20:31 pm

For Radical Highway, I forgot to mention: I thought the part after the second check was really daring, the way he landed straight on the bridge rail from the spring. For me, that's the most annoying part of an IL run of the level. I didn't ask him about it, but it's possible that Blaze doesn't routinely try this, and just felt more daring due to the death earlier on.

About the continuous spindashing, I'm pretty sure it's the fastest way to get through most relatively flat roads. For RH, I'd say use it after the first loop, and before the third (last) check. Near the end, it might be better to just hold a single spindash, because you're going slightly downhill and there are boost panels.

Shadow Jacky

2008-12-24 04:40:23 pm

fucking .gif....

Weapons Bed--He doesn't use the shortcut at the beginning. I think that's all

it looked like he tried to, but botched it up. mistimed landing on the sign.

honestly I don't know if he even knows about this place. I would PM him, but he barely comes by TSC nowadays to submit.

Slisenberger

2009-06-30 09:53:29 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Well, after considering it for a little longer, I've decided I would like to try a 100% (180 emblem) speedrun of sa2:b. The new approval of out of bounds glitches makes the run much easier to do in a fast time, much flashier, and much more entertaining in general. A couple notes that might discourage me from making the run:

Chao raising is a crucial part to the 180 emblem speedrun, and is unfortunately extremely slow. It takes me about a whole day to adequately raise a chao that is good enough for all the chao races/ karate, and that doesn't count the long time of actually watching your chao race. This would kill a speedrun and make it extremely un fun to watch.

Two solutions could be:

a.) starting the run with fully raised chao on the memory card, but a new actual game file. This skips the arduous task of raising chao, but isn't entirely a new game run, and might count as newgame+.
b.) Counting a 100% run as all non chao emblems. This is technically lying; only 171 emblems would be collected, for a 95% speedrun, but it would be significantly more entertaining and fast if the chao emblems were excluded.

Another problem with the run would be its length; In a completely optimal situation, in which the fastest times ever achieved on the levels were obtained (with mission 4 being a duplicate of mission 1), 170:07.90 is the total time. Including bosses, you add another 7:35.27. Adding kart races, you add another 8:01.93. That's a run that comes out over 3 hours, assuming I tie the existing record on every level. That's an unrealistic figure, though; Knuckles and Rouge mission 1 records abuse death for luck reasons, real times would likely come out a minute slower. On top of that, several of the existing records are only achievable on the dreamcast version of the game, making them impossible on a sa2:b run. On top of that, I have to play through the story mode, which means I will duplicate all bosses. On top of all that, all mission 1s, mission 4s, and mission 5s, with the exception of kart racing levels, need a score threshhold to be met for an A rank on the mission (and getting all a's is a requirement for a 100%, or 95% run). Meeting the score threshold requires taking non-optimal speed routes through most of the levels. While the levels can still be completed rather quickly, it wouldn't be the optimal time we figured earlier.

Overall, even without chao raising/racing/karate, we've got a run that's probably going to end up at 4 and a half or 5 hours, segmented.

Is that an entertaining run to watch? Would viewers lose interest in a run of that length?

So I've got a couple questions for you guys:

1.) How would I theoretically handle the chao raising situation? Would I raise them on the spot to comply with rules, would I bring in pre-raised chao on the memory card and potentially ruin the run's name as a newgame run, or would I skip chao for the sake of entertainment, despite technically invalidating the run in the context of 100%?

2.) Would a five hour run (excluding chao) be an entertaining enough run to validate its creation?

I'm working on getting a dvd recorder, and I definitely think I'm skilled enough to pull off a run at a high level of play (I'm currently ranked 4th in the world at sa2:b, out of over 200 high level players), but these questions are making me hesitant about even attempting the run. Can you guys give some input as to what my solutions should be, or if I should even try the run?

Well, after considering it for a little longer, I've decided I would like to try a 100% (180 emblem) speedrun of sa2:b. The new approval of out of bounds glitches makes the run much easier to do in a fast time, much flashier, and much more entertaining in general. A couple notes that might discourage me from making the run:

Chao raising is a crucial part to the 180 emblem speedrun, and is unfortunately extremely slow. It takes me about a whole day to adequately raise a chao that is good enough for all the chao races/ karate, and that doesn't count the long time of actually watching your chao race. This would kill a speedrun and make it extremely un fun to watch.

Two solutions could be:

a.) starting the run with fully raised chao on the memory card, but a new actual game file. This skips the arduous task of raising chao, but isn't entirely a new game run, and might count as newgame+.
b.) Counting a 100% run as all non chao emblems. This is technically lying; only 171 emblems would be collected, for a 95% speedrun, but it would be significantly more entertaining and fast if the chao emblems were excluded.

Another problem with the run would be its length; In a completely optimal situation, in which the fastest times ever achieved on the levels were obtained (with mission 4 being a duplicate of mission 1), 170:07.90 is the total time. Including bosses, you add another 7:35.27. Adding kart races, you add another 8:01.93. That's a run that comes out over 3 hours, assuming I tie the existing record on every level. That's an unrealistic figure, though; Knuckles and Rouge mission 1 records abuse death for luck reasons, real times would likely come out a minute slower. On top of that, several of the existing records are only achievable on the dreamcast version of the game, making them impossible on a sa2:b run. On top of that, I have to play through the story mode, which means I will duplicate all bosses. On top of all that, all mission 1s, mission 4s, and mission 5s, with the exception of kart racing levels, need a score threshhold to be met for an A rank on the mission (and getting all a's is a requirement for a 100%, or 95% run). Meeting the score threshold requires taking non-optimal speed routes through most of the levels. While the levels can still be completed rather quickly, it wouldn't be the optimal time we figured earlier.

Overall, even without chao raising/racing/karate, we've got a run that's probably going to end up at 4 and a half or 5 hours, segmented.

Is that an entertaining run to watch? Would viewers lose interest in a run of that length?

So I've got a couple questions for you guys:

1.) How would I theoretically handle the chao raising situation? Would I raise them on the spot to comply with rules, would I bring in pre-raised chao on the memory card and potentially ruin the run's name as a newgame run, or would I skip chao for the sake of entertainment, despite technically invalidating the run in the context of 100%?

2.) Would a five hour run (excluding chao) be an entertaining enough run to validate its creation?

I'm working on getting a dvd recorder, and I definitely think I'm skilled enough to pull off a run at a high level of play (I'm currently ranked 4th in the world at sa2:b, out of over 200 high level players), but these questions are making me hesitant about even attempting the run. Can you guys give some input as to what my solutions should be, or if I should even try the run?

RingRush

2009-06-30 10:14:12 am

Well, I'm running a 9-10 hour game, and there seems to be enough interest, so I don't see why there wouldn't be interest in a much more popular 4.5-5 hour game.

As for chao, since they are stored in a different data than your adventure file on your memory card, I don't see why you can't just start with a perfect chao. Having to watch the races would be boring though, it would be up to mike to decide if that is necesary. However, since this game does have an in-game timer, I'm thinking it might be.

petrie911

2009-06-30 10:20:47 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

is 100% necessarily all emblems, or actually getting everything? There are many upgrades which aren't required for all emblems, and there's also the hidden menu themes (Secretary, Amy, Omochao, Maria).

Secondly, I would hope that timing would end upon completion of GHZ.

RingRush

2009-06-30 10:25:05 am

Are themes cross-file? If so, they are not part of 100% for sure. Even so, I really doubt they'ld be included in the definition.

Upgrades...they honestly don't cost much time to get, and for the most part they save time. Pretty much the only upgrade that would waste time to get is Eggman's armor upgrade, and I'd say just grab it, it only takes like 5 seconds. Better safe than sorry. On second thought, maybe Shadow's flame roll would waste time, but I still believe that the time wasted is so minor that you might as well just grab it (especially since you go across that pit on mission 2 for the light dash chain).

Also, if the run does all the chao races, then yeah, I say do GHZ. Possibly require an A rank, but not sure.

Edit: Oh, forgot about both Ancient Lights...and Mystic Melodies for a few characters. Shadow's Ancient Light is easily grabbable with the new mission 2 strategy, Sonic's should not be hard to put in any mission besides 2, Sonic's melody is a bit out of the way, but doable...same with all of them really.

Are themes cross-file? If so, they are not part of 100% for sure. Even so, I really doubt they'ld be included in the definition.

Upgrades...they honestly don't cost much time to get, and for the most part they save time. Pretty much the only upgrade that would waste time to get is Eggman's armor upgrade, and I'd say just grab it, it only takes like 5 seconds. Better safe than sorry. On second thought, maybe Shadow's flame roll would waste time, but I still believe that the time wasted is so minor that you might as well just grab it (especially since you go across that pit on mission 2 for the light dash chain).

Also, if the run does all the chao races, then yeah, I say do GHZ. Possibly require an A rank, but not sure.

Edit: Oh, forgot about both Ancient Lights...and Mystic Melodies for a few characters. Shadow's Ancient Light is easily grabbable with the new mission 2 strategy, Sonic's should not be hard to put in any mission besides 2, Sonic's melody is a bit out of the way, but doable...same with all of them really.

Slisenberger

2009-06-30 04:36:09 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Magic hands is a waste of time to get, however most mystic melodies are helpful. Each character still has a faster mission 3 after the mystic melody is achieved, so it's worth getting each character's as fast as possible.

Alright; I'll append the current definition of 100% to include green hill zone. However, I hardly think earning menu themes is crucial to how far along in the story you are. The game visibly measures progress through the emblems system; I think it's more than fair enough to say that collecting all emblems is 100% for the game. However, I'll A rank green hill zone as well, since it is an additional level.

yoshifan

2009-06-30 04:59:52 pm

1) Yes, definitely preferred if Chao stuff isn't included, for entertainment reasons. If Chao races/karate really must be included, I guess the best we can do is just push it off to its own set of segments. If Chao raising must be included too, then I'm additionally concerned about Chao raising luck being a large factor on the run's time (and the runner's motivation).

2) Aside from Chao stuff, I wouldn't be concerned about the run length, entertainment-wise. But I am concerned about the repetition. Most bosses will be beaten 3 times (and Sonic/Shadow, Tails/Eggman, etc. are really similar to each other, too). For the stages, missions 1 and 4 are almost always very similar, and 3 and 5 are often similar to those too.

And I agree with menu themes being unnecessary. Not totally sure about getting all upgrades, but I'm leaning towards unnecessary as well. Also, if it's anything to think about, the "emblem results" timer actually stops when you get to 180 emblems, so it's as if the game is actually urging us to speedrun the emblems only. >_> It still feels a little excessive to me though, mainly due to the repetition. For a "100%" definition, I would easily prefer a run that goes through all the stories with all A-ranks.

1) Yes, definitely preferred if Chao stuff isn't included, for entertainment reasons.  If Chao races/karate really must be included, I guess the best we can do is just push it off to its own set of segments.  If Chao raising must be included too, then I'm additionally concerned about Chao raising luck being a large factor on the run's time (and the runner's motivation).

2) Aside from Chao stuff, I wouldn't be concerned about the run length, entertainment-wise.  But I am concerned about the repetition.  Most bosses will be beaten 3 times (and Sonic/Shadow, Tails/Eggman, etc. are really similar to each other, too).  For the stages, missions 1 and 4 are almost always very similar, and 3 and 5 are often similar to those too.

And I agree with menu themes being unnecessary.  Not totally sure about getting all upgrades, but I'm leaning towards unnecessary as well.  Also, if it's anything to think about, the "emblem results" timer actually stops when you get to 180 emblems, so it's as if the game is actually urging us to speedrun the emblems only. >_>  It still feels a little excessive to me though, mainly due to the repetition.  For a "100%" definition, I would easily prefer a run that goes through all the stories with all A-ranks.

SadisticMystic

2009-06-30 05:24:39 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Sonic doesn't get any 3s improved by having MM, so unless the upgrades are included in 100% it's probably best to just ignore it. Knuckles' MM would be the same way on DC, but doing Meteor Herd that way doesn't sound like much of an option for the Cube. A shame, too, because getting Knuckles' MM in the first place demands a horrendous sidetrack.

I don't think Tails needs the Bazooka, though you'll have a devil of a time racking up As in Eternal Engine without it. I can confirm as much on DC, and while I don't know of any method that's been positively tested to work on GC, I would expect there's at least something in that level. Still, the fact that you need to get to 35000 points somehow is a strong case for getting this.

I know Tails' Laser Blaster saves some time, particularly with all the dynamite pillars in Hidden Base and doors in Cannon's Core and elsewhere keyed to multiple nearby dynamites or enemies. With Eggman, though, it might not actually be worth it: the only places I can think of where residual damage helps out speed-wise are on the Sand Ocean pillars, which are almost all skipped anyway, and the very start of Lost Colony 5. Plus, if it's decided that Eggman does gain from having the blaster then it means we have to visit SO3 in between IG2 and IG3, which looks bad.

Rouge's Iron Boots may not be needed either depending on how friendly the Mad Space 1/4 layouts are, though it does mean devoting a large chunk of some Security Hall mission to throwaway time, going up top, diving into the Treasure Scope room from above, then pause-restarting since you don't have any other way out. Call that at least 20 seconds, and...it's probably faster to pick that one up anyway, even if only for a dedicated trip to the Spherical Planet just for the upgrade. Actually, just get it right before finishing hard mode. That should definitely cost less time than the extravagance in SH.

Eggman's Protection Armor isn't actually all that protective. Basically it means the health bar now spans exactly 4 times the damage of a standard hit, rather than 3 and a half, so it only makes a difference if you get hit then manage to get back at least one ring (but not more than 10) before taking 3 more hits. It's only a few seconds out of the way, but that's a few more seconds than you'd take otherwise.

Obviously Air Necklace isn't even worth considering as long as upgrades don't count for percentage, especially since there are no longer any questions of legality concerning his CC route.

Sunglasses turn out not to be necessary and are probably worth skipping if you can. In the best case, getting them will set you back about 11 seconds plus a pause restart, or even longer if you actually bother to open the tower floor so you have a way back up. The route changes required for lack of sunglasses end up setting you back about 4 seconds in Pumpkin Hill and probably 2-6 in Aquatic Mine depending on the route you want to attempt for that one. In Wild Canyon it's obviously faster to skip the sunglasses, and in Meteor Herd it's probably even (as far as piece 3 anyway; diving from 3 down to 2 is clearly much faster than any other way you can get to 2).

So I think we could do with a ruling on this one.

Sonic doesn't get any 3s improved by having MM, so unless the upgrades are included in 100% it's probably best to just ignore it. Knuckles' MM would be the same way on DC, but doing Meteor Herd that way doesn't sound like much of an option for the Cube. A shame, too, because getting Knuckles' MM in the first place demands a horrendous sidetrack.

I don't think Tails needs the Bazooka, though you'll have a devil of a time racking up As in Eternal Engine without it. I can confirm as much on DC, and while I don't know of any method that's been positively tested to work on GC, I would expect there's at least something in that level. Still, the fact that you need to get to 35000 points somehow is a strong case for getting this.

I know Tails' Laser Blaster saves some time, particularly with all the dynamite pillars in Hidden Base and doors in Cannon's Core and elsewhere keyed to multiple nearby dynamites or enemies. With Eggman, though, it might not actually be worth it: the only places I can think of where residual damage helps out speed-wise are on the Sand Ocean pillars, which are almost all skipped anyway, and the very start of Lost Colony 5. Plus, if it's decided that Eggman does gain from having the blaster then it means we have to visit SO3 in between IG2 and IG3, which looks bad.

Rouge's Iron Boots may not be needed either depending on how friendly the Mad Space 1/4 layouts are, though it does mean devoting a large chunk of some Security Hall mission to throwaway time, going up top, diving into the Treasure Scope room from above, then pause-restarting since you don't have any other way out. Call that at least 20 seconds, and...it's probably faster to pick that one up anyway, even if only for a dedicated trip to the Spherical Planet just for the upgrade. Actually, just get it right before finishing hard mode. That should definitely cost less time than the extravagance in SH.

Eggman's Protection Armor isn't actually all that protective. Basically it means the health bar now spans exactly 4 times the damage of a standard hit, rather than 3 and a half, so it only makes a difference if you get hit then manage to get back at least one ring ([b]but not more than 10[/b]) before taking 3 more hits. It's only a few seconds out of the way, but that's a few more seconds than you'd take otherwise.

Obviously Air Necklace isn't even worth considering as long as upgrades don't count for percentage, especially since there are no longer any questions of legality concerning his CC route.

Sunglasses turn out not to be necessary and are probably worth skipping if you can. In the best case, getting them will set you back about 11 seconds plus a pause restart, or even longer if you actually bother to open the tower floor so you have a way back up. The route changes required for lack of sunglasses end up setting you back about 4 seconds in Pumpkin Hill and probably 2-6 in Aquatic Mine depending on the route you want to attempt for that one. In Wild Canyon it's obviously faster to skip the sunglasses, and in Meteor Herd it's probably even (as far as piece 3 anyway; diving from 3 down to 2 is clearly much faster than any other way you can get to 2).

So I think we could do with a ruling on this one.