Sonic Adventure 2 Hero/Dark Story

2007-03-21 01:09:25 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

That sounds like a dumb idea to me, and I think we should stick with single segments. almsot evey sa2 level at tsc has some part of it video taped and speedran (if not every). Once can get an amazing speed insight from just watching 4 or 5 videos.

stanski

Edit history:

stanski: 2007-03-21 02:25:16 am

2007-03-21 02:19:54 am

wise fwom yo gwave

Go beat some sonic 2 times then stefan. Stop sucking Kiss

Agreed though, SS is 20 times better then segmented for sonic games when there is so much competition over "segments" already.

Slisenberger

2007-03-21 02:24:22 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

hay man. I'm doing as good as I can. Just not in sonic 2. >_>

petrie911

2007-03-21 04:28:29 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

I disagree about Mad Space being worse than Final Chase. I'm pretty good with hunting levels (I've got pretty good clue memorization), but Final Chase screws me over constantly. Gravity tubes suddenly losing their gravity and those annoying jumps right before the wall you run up and at the end.

Slisenberger

2007-03-21 01:11:22 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

With some good spin dash jumps you can skip most of the hard parts of the levels with tons of room for error. Gravity drums aren't really that bad, either :x.

petrie911

Edit history:

petrie911: 2007-03-25 12:07:27 am

2007-03-24 11:31:43 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Well, I just got a run done. I'm not sure if I'll take it, as it has 2 deaths, but I'll see what the times come out to. The first death was a stupid but somewhat cheap death in Sonic 1 (yeah, I know) that cost 12 seconds. The other was a REALLY cheap death in, you guessed it, Final Chase (right BEFORE the third checkpoint, too). Damn gravity tubes. Cost me probably 50 seconds, but I figured I might as well finish and see what the times were.

Times to come in next edit.

EDIT: OK, here are the times. It's about a 5 minute improvement on the last one I did (which was quite a while ago).

Iron Gate: 2:09.49
Hot Shot: 0:23.05
Dry Lagoon: 0:50.44
Sand Ocean: 2:39.99 (hey, sub 2:40!)
Radical Highway: 2:07.89
Egg Quarters: 1:11.39
Lost Colony: 2:39.77
Weapons Bed: 1:43.52
Tails 1: 0:18.84
Security Hall: 1:23.19
Flying Dog: 0:43.95
White Jungle: 1:58.50
Sonic 1: 0:26.75 + 0:12.37 = 39.12
Route 280: 3:03.90
Sky Rail: 1:09.92
Mad Space: 2:35.70
Knuckles: 0:20.77
Cosmic Wall: 5:24.72
Tails 2: 0:21.59 (I didn't die ^_^)
Final Chase: 3:22.65 + 0:50.65 = 4:13.30
Sonic 2: 1:00.09

Total without deaths (TSC time): 36:36.18
Total with deaths (SDA time): 37:39.20

So, submit or keep trying?

Well, I just got a run done.  I'm not sure if I'll take it, as it has 2 deaths, but I'll see what the times come out to.  The first death was a stupid but somewhat cheap death in Sonic 1 (yeah, I know) that cost 12 seconds.  The other was a REALLY cheap death in, you guessed it, Final Chase (right BEFORE the third checkpoint, too).  Damn gravity tubes.  Cost me probably 50 seconds, but I figured I might as well finish and see what the times were.

Times to come in next edit.

EDIT: OK, here are the times.  It's about a 5 minute improvement on the last one I did (which was quite a while ago).

Iron Gate: 2:09.49
Hot Shot: 0:23.05
Dry Lagoon: 0:50.44
Sand Ocean: 2:39.99 (hey, sub 2:40!)
Radical Highway: 2:07.89
Egg Quarters: 1:11.39
Lost Colony: 2:39.77
Weapons Bed: 1:43.52
Tails 1: 0:18.84
Security Hall: 1:23.19
Flying Dog: 0:43.95
White Jungle: 1:58.50
Sonic 1: 0:26.75 + 0:12.37 = 39.12
Route 280: 3:03.90
Sky Rail: 1:09.92
Mad Space: 2:35.70
Knuckles: 0:20.77
Cosmic Wall: 5:24.72
Tails 2: 0:21.59 (I didn't die ^_^)
Final Chase: 3:22.65 + 0:50.65 = 4:13.30
Sonic 2: 1:00.09

Total without deaths (TSC time): 36:36.18
Total with deaths (SDA time): 37:39.20

So, submit or keep trying?

Slisenberger

2007-03-25 12:55:05 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

:x Deaths should not be in runs. ;X. One problem I see is that your final chase and cowmic wall times as just slow.. a 5:15 cw1 shouldn't be too hard, and sub 3:00 fc1 should fall into place :(. Your other times definitely look decent, but I'd look into a 0 deaths run and improving those two levels. Cheesy

petrie911

Edit history:

petrie911: 2007-03-25 01:10:00 am

2007-03-25 01:06:54 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

In FC, my goal is to not die (and even that is not always successful...), so I don't use a lot of the skips because I REALLY don't want to die at that point. CW I'm not sure how to improve on, as I can't find a video of a speedrun of it (lots of scoreruns, though) or a guide or anthing. I've just been using what I can come up with.

yeah, the deaths are pretty bad, but IIRC it still has no more than the current SA sonic run.

I think that I might, with good luck and improving a few levels, be able to get sub-35, but it would probably take a while, and I'm not sure if I really want to anymore...

X9

2007-03-25 01:19:19 am

hai yah

3:00 is kinda demanding for final chase, since the tubes can really screw you on GC and there's the fear of dieing on the tough jumps and all. 3:10-3:15 sounds reasonable though.

All the hunting levels are very well done, and most of the bosses and walker levels are okay, but I think afew could be better.

Radical highway should go under 2 minutes(Which I believe was your target anyway?), White jungle should easily be 1:50, and I don't see why you can't get sub 1:35 on weapons bed.

Oh, and sky rail should definitely be under 55, even if you take the last set of rails carefully(Unless your playing on DC)

I know alot of good "safe" stratgies for some of those levels, and I could make some videos of them if you need any.

stanski

2007-03-25 01:28:10 am

wise fwom yo gwave

Quote:

In FC, my goal is to not die (and even that is not always successful...), so I don't use a lot of the skips because I REALLY don't want to die at that point. CW I'm not sure how to improve on, as I can't find a video of a speedrun of it (lots of scoreruns, though) or a guide or anthing. I've just been using what I can come up with.

yeah, the deaths are pretty bad, but IIRC it still has no more than the current SA sonic run.

I think that I might, with good luck and improving a few levels, be able to get sub-35, but it would probably take a while, and I'm not sure if I really want to anymore...

I think SA is different though, in that he attempts a million crazy tricks in the run, so a few deaths isn't the worst thing in the world. No deaths would still look better though.

petrie911

Edit history:

petrie911: 2007-03-25 01:42:05 am

2007-03-25 01:39:27 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Quote:

3:00 is kinda demanding for final chase, since the tubes can really screw you on GC and there's the fear of dieing on the tough jumps and all. 3:10-3:15 sounds reasonable though.

All the hunting levels are very well done, and most of the bosses and walker levels are okay, but I think afew could be better.

Radical highway should go under 2 minutes(Which I believe was your target anyway?), White jungle should easily be 1:50, and I don't see why you can't get sub 1:35 on weapons bed.

Oh, and sky rail should definitely be under 55, even if you take the last set of rails carefully(Unless your playing on DC)

I know alot of good "safe" stratgies for some of those levels, and I could make some videos of them if you need any.

A video of Cosmic Wall and some nice, safe strategies for the 4 speed levels would be really helpful. I think I'm doing something wrong in those, but I don't know what. I don't see that much of a difference between the TSC videos and my levels, but somehow all the videos are at least 10 seconds faster.

Weapons Bed I can handle. I had a few mistakes and left out a few of the more risky strategies (and had to stop for the Large Cannon), but if I used all the strats I know, 1:35 should be doable.

So, I take it I shouldn't submit this and go for something faster?

[quote]3:00 is kinda demanding for final chase, since the tubes can really screw you on GC and there's the fear of dieing on the tough jumps and all.  3:10-3:15 sounds reasonable though.

All the hunting levels are very well done, and most of the bosses and walker levels are okay, but I think afew could be better.

Radical highway should go under 2 minutes(Which I believe was your target anyway?), White jungle should easily be 1:50, and I don't see why you can't get sub 1:35 on weapons bed.

Oh, and sky rail should definitely be under 55, even if you take the last set of rails carefully(Unless your playing on DC)

I know alot of good "safe" stratgies for some of those levels, and I could make some videos of them if you need any.[/quote]

A video of Cosmic Wall and some nice, safe strategies for the 4 speed levels would be really helpful.  I think I'm doing something wrong in those, but I don't know what.  I don't see that much of a difference between the TSC videos and my levels, but somehow all the videos are at least 10 seconds faster.

Weapons Bed I can handle.  I had a few mistakes and left out a few of the more risky strategies (and had to stop for the Large Cannon), but if I used all the strats I know, 1:35 should be doable.

So, I take it I shouldn't submit this and go for something faster?

petrie911

2007-03-25 01:41:43 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

page glitch...

Slisenberger

2007-03-25 04:52:39 am

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

do soemthing without deaths, at the least. :x.

I could try to vid cosmic wall.. yesterday I got myself a 5:00.69 cw1.. so I could try a poor vid to show.

petrie911

2007-03-26 11:20:57 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

BTW, does anyone know a good way to avoid being killed in the Tails 2 fight? I pick up the blast shield in Cosmic Wall to try to help with that, but I still haven't found a consistent way to beat him even with it.

Maxml

2007-03-27 02:11:46 pm

Rhaaa why did I sell my Dreamcast ??!!!!

I haven't play this game for a very long time; be sure I'll watch your runs.

After making the "Hero" path and the "Dark" path do you intend to do a "Last" path ?

petrie911

2007-03-28 01:24:51 am

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Before we can, we'll need to know the timing rules. Cannon's Core is the one and only level where the clock is not necessarily an accurate representation of the time.

mikwuyma

Edit history:

mikwuyma: 2007-03-28 02:51:04 pm

2007-03-28 02:50:39 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

The best way to get a verdict on the timing rules is to explain how the game's timer works as accurately as possible, so I can actually make a judgment Tongue

Paused

Edit history:

Paused: 2007-03-28 03:57:18 pm

2007-03-28 03:29:03 pm

The stage in question has switches that "stop game time" for a set amount of real time, IIRC 5 seconds or so, but I think that depends on the switch that you hit.

This causes changes in-game such as, enemies freeze, new routes open and the like. It also stops the in-game clock, so for those 5 seconds or so you are not being timed.

Use of the switches, several times, is needed to complete the level.

Every switch can be used multiple times, but the effect is not cumalative. E.g. You hit a switch and have 5 seconds of "free time." In that time you destroy some nearby enemies or whatever to clear the way. You return back to the switch you hit whilst you have 1 second of "free time" remaining. You hit it and once again have 5 seconds of "free time".

Additional complications arise due to a glitch that enables the runner to make certain switches effects pernement. IE Time is frozen till the end of the level, thus the time you hit the switch, is the time that the game will say you completed the level in. This is only for a handful of the many switches however.

Hope that was clear enough.

(This is of course presuming that the Chao garden glitch is not used, where you leave the level and then re enter at Sonic's section. It shouldn't be as AFAIK can not actually be done during story mode, thus is irrelevant. Not to mention, pretty sure it brakes prety much everyone of the rules here. That and it will take ages to explain.)

Also Sand Ocean has timing issues too, but for different reasons, tricking the game into thinking your dead, and thus stopping the clock, but coming back to life at the last moment, leaving you free to complete the level at your own lesiure.

The stage in question has switches that "stop game time" for a set amount of real time, IIRC 5 seconds or so, but I think that depends on the switch that you hit.

This causes changes in-game such as, enemies freeze,  new routes open and the like.  It also stops the in-game clock, so for those 5 seconds or so you are not being timed.

Use of the switches, several times, is needed to complete the level.

Every switch can be used multiple times, but the effect is not cumalative.  E.g. You hit a switch and have 5 seconds of "free time."  In that time you destroy some nearby enemies or whatever to clear the way.  You return back to the switch you hit whilst you have 1 second of "free time" remaining.  You hit it and once again have 5 seconds of "free time".

Additional complications arise due to a glitch that enables the runner to make certain switches effects pernement.  IE Time is frozen till the end of the level, thus the time you hit the switch, is the time that the game will say you completed the level in.  This is only for a handful of the many switches however.

Hope that was clear enough.

(This is of course presuming that the Chao garden glitch is not used, where you leave the level and then re enter at Sonic's section.  It shouldn't be as AFAIK can not actually be done during story mode, thus is irrelevant.  Not to mention, pretty sure it brakes prety much everyone of the rules here.  That and it will take ages to explain.)

Also Sand Ocean has timing issues too, but for different reasons, tricking the game into thinking your dead, and thus stopping the clock, but coming back to life at the last moment, leaving you free to complete the level at your own lesiure.

NintenDan

2007-03-28 06:23:45 pm

don't forget route 280

mikwuyma

2007-03-28 06:29:29 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

What about route 280?

perfectchaos180

2007-03-28 10:16:41 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

if this isnt done after I finish my tony hawk run, I might work on this. I might just keep trying till I get lucky on every treasure hunt stage.

Also a tip, if you are going by the games timer for cannons core (which I doubt it just posting anyways), once you get to the part with sonic where there is a wall of lasers before the water slide, you can permanently stop time for the rest of the level by using a glitch

petrie911

2007-03-28 11:06:31 pm

Everybody loves Hypnotoad!

Route 280's only applies to Mission 2 IIRC. A few hunting levels have a similar thing.

The trick is to kill yourself as you complete a level, causing you to start the level over and complete it at the same time, giving you a ridiculously low time.

Also, Sand Ocean involves killing yourself to stop the time, then hitting a convenient spring to cancel the death and complete the level with the clock stopped

Slisenberger

2007-04-02 11:59:43 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

Sorry I wasn't here: spring break.

About the last story run, I think I'd be the person to do that. I know this wouldn't be timed via in-game timer; There are just too many time stops that would fiddle around with it. I currently hold the world-record ingame timer of cannons core mission 1 with 1:22.5x (though a 1:20.xx has been obtained on mission 3 which plays the same... but I digress). This route involves tons of real-time play involving the shooting of multiple switches multiple times until one gets perfect setup, two permanent stops of time, and one out of bounds glitch that SDA would not allow. I taped a 1:25 run (poor quality, though). It clocks in at about 8 minutes real time after cutting out tons of failed attempts which wasted lives. Basically, in-game timing is pointless for cannon's core. It would likely take 40 real-time minutes to get a great cannons core run as judged by in-game timer, and that really just isn't a speedrun. My cc1 run is available here.

Optimal route for a real-time speedrun would involve two illegal out-of-bounds glitches. One is in rouge's section to bypass the first and second time switches, the second is the one I use in my cc1 video in knuckles' section. Neither are allowed, so the best route would be similar to what I did on tails's seciont (minus backtracking and forward tracking). in eggman's section there'd be no pausing at the block section. A good rouge section would involve permastop so you have to stop time only once rather than three times. knuckle's would just be to follow basic route. sonic's would also be to follow basic route with no permastop because the liquid is faster than spindashing and much more consistent.

Also, I still have not gotten a successful sa2 hero story run down. I promise, I'm trying!

Sorry I wasn't here: spring break.

About the last story run, I think I'd be the person to do that. I know this wouldn't be timed via in-game timer; There are just too many time stops that would fiddle around with it. I currently hold the world-record ingame timer of cannons core mission 1 with 1:22.5x (though a 1:20.xx has been obtained on mission 3 which plays the same... but I digress). This route involves tons of real-time play involving the shooting of multiple switches multiple times until one gets perfect setup, two permanent stops of time, and one out of bounds glitch that SDA would not allow. I taped a 1:25 run (poor quality, though). It clocks in at about 8 minutes real time after cutting out tons of failed attempts which wasted lives. Basically, in-game timing is pointless for cannon's core. It would likely take 40 real-time minutes to get a great cannons core run as judged by in-game timer, and that really just isn't a speedrun. My cc1 run is available [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRBnXs65PqM]here[/url].

Optimal route for a real-time speedrun would involve two illegal out-of-bounds glitches. One is in rouge's section to bypass the first and second time switches, the second is the one I use in my cc1 video in knuckles' section. Neither are allowed, so the best route would be similar to what I did on tails's seciont (minus backtracking and forward tracking). in eggman's section there'd be no pausing at the block section. A good rouge section would involve permastop so you have to stop time only once rather than three times. knuckle's would just be to follow basic route. sonic's would also be to follow basic route with no permastop because the liquid is faster than spindashing and much more consistent.

Also, I still have not gotten a successful sa2 hero story run down. I promise, I'm trying!

Slisenberger

2007-04-08 03:51:46 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

I played a few mroe runs on Friday... I overall did pretty well but I'd screw up major on a hunting stage and restart, or die stupidly on like Hidden Base. There's still hope, but I'm once again feeling the quality of video will be pooor.. I do everything that the knowledge base says for recording but.. it still looks bad.

Gamer_3.0

2007-04-11 02:47:11 am

Sa2 hero speed run? Back in the day i was perfect at this game. Now, i might just give some competition. Except i would do the Sa2B run. All I need is school to end faster and a Wii to play it on and i am ready.