Sonic 3 and Knuckles!

2011-01-05 01:27:28 pm

SEGA Junkie

OK I haven't posted here in a while because I haven't been working on this, I've been working on Sonic Advance 3 (and Rocket Knight Adventures for the marathon of course). This post is mainly just to alert you that Emma found this trick just a couple of hours ago, which cuts Launch Base 1 in half for all characters (except for co-op because that skip is already trivial). The best part? Unlike the other flybot glitch, this one is speedrun-safe Cheesy

The worst part is that the Knuckles run might need a redo. I'm really reluctant to do that unless something -else- gets found just because it's almost no advantage if I miss the FB2 laser skip (a very likely scenario), but then I redid the run over the earlier FB2 skip...

Phở

2011-01-05 10:00:27 pm

Too cool for 7th grade.

It's nice to see that people who are really really good at a game have horrible luck too lol. Also, that bird glitch is pretty funny.

mike89

2011-01-13 10:32:57 am

SEGA Junkie

So if you really can't wait to see my Tails run, here's a compilation video I made just now with pretty much all the major tricks in this run. I apologise for my voice, as it was 3-4am at the time of playing D:

mike89

2011-01-14 07:50:42 am

SEGA Junkie

So I switched projects back to this now that I taught myself all the tricks again. Latest attempt:

AI: 53 / 1:35
HC: 45 / 38 +7
MG: 1:01 / 56
CN: 43 / 2:42
IC: 1:41 / 1:09
LB: 59 / 1:49 (14:58)
MH: 1:22 / 1:25
FB: 1:31 / 1:27
SO: 1:21 / 2:46
LR: 2:35 / 3:27
HP: 31
SS: 1:06
DE: 2:02 / 3:23 ...+37

TOTAL: 38:31

I wish I was making this up.

At the start of Death Egg 2 is one of those enemies that throws a spike ball at you. There are no rings between you and this enemy. I spindashed and jumped over the spikeball... and died. No kidding.

Then on the final boss gauntlet (after three minutes of staring at the screen completely blank faced) after killing off the last two fingers, I fell through the floor and died. I've seen this happen before at the very start of the fight but this was the game outright cheating to stop me from getting a run out.

Both of these are attached as bloopers. I couldn't let them go to waste.

Also, I nearly hit the Lava Reef 2 skip - I kinda half got stuck in the floor. It's difficult to explain without seeing it for yourself, but you can be pushed into the floor in two different ways, and you want the one that pushes you the furthest into the ground. Probably looking at about 36:40 if I can hit that and I don't become a nervous wreck for the rest of the run.

So I switched projects back to this now that I taught myself all the tricks again. Latest attempt:

AI: 53 / 1:35
HC: 45 / 38 +7
MG: 1:01 / 56
CN: 43 / 2:42
IC: 1:41 / 1:09
LB: 59 / 1:49 (14:58)
MH: 1:22 / 1:25
FB: 1:31 / 1:27
SO: 1:21 / 2:46
LR: 2:35 / 3:27
HP: 31
SS: 1:06
DE: 2:02 / 3:23 ...+37

[b]TOTAL: 38:31[/b]

I wish I was making this up.

At the start of Death Egg 2 is one of those enemies that throws a spike ball at you. There are no rings between you and this enemy. I spindashed and jumped over the spikeball... and died. No kidding.

Then on the final boss gauntlet (after three minutes of staring at the screen completely blank faced) after killing off the last two fingers, I [i]fell through the floor[/i] and died. I've seen this happen before at the very start of the fight but this was the game outright cheating to stop me from getting a run out.

Both of these are attached as bloopers. I couldn't let them go to waste.

Also, I nearly hit the Lava Reef 2 skip - I kinda half got stuck in the floor. It's difficult to explain without seeing it for yourself, but you can be pushed into the floor in two different ways, and you want the one that pushes you the furthest into the ground. Probably looking at about 36:40 if I can hit that [i]and[/i] I don't become a nervous wreck for the rest of the run.

Attachments:

S3bloopers19.mp4

S3bloopers20.mp4

X

2011-01-14 09:47:18 am

destroy them with lazers

Thats some serious bad luck on the 2nd blooper. Also that trick video was great. Keep up the good work mike.

Flip

2011-01-14 04:01:43 pm

1-Up!

I'm really sorry this game hates you, Mike89. Funnily enough, I actually fell through the floor and died while attempting the Sonic 3 Death Egg challenge at MAGFest yesterday, so I suppose I can empathize a little bit.

InsipidMuckyWater

Edit history:

InsipidMuckyWater: 2011-01-22 08:50:31 am

InsipidMuckyWater: 2011-01-20 12:03:34 am

2011-01-20 12:03:02 am

Visit my profile to see my runs!

Mike89, you mentioned you had a run or two in the queue for this that would be good for the SDA promotion video which MAS is producing. You suggested clips, but I don't have access to the verification copies. Would you mind posting those clips in this thread (in high quality, if possible) so we can paste them in the video?

EDIT: Mike89, did you see my response in the video thread?

mike89

2011-02-01 09:52:59 am

SEGA Junkie

Alright, time to reveal my progress.

AI: 53 / 1:33
HC: 42 / 35 +7
MG: 1:02 / 49
CN: 1:14 / 1:21
IC: 1:20 / 1:06
LB: 1:11 / 1:47 +20 (14:00)
MH: 1:15 / 1:21
FB: 1:36 +34 / 1:24
SO: 1:16 / 2:55
LR: 1:59 / 2:27
HP: 31
SS: 1:07
DE: 1:58 +153 / 3:31

TOTAL: 38:27

Yes, despite four deaths (two on DE1), that is actually my best time. It will only take a quick glance at some of the times, however, to tell that the game has changed significantly in the last couple of weeks.

First, in Carnival Night (might as well be one big zone now) you can carry the act 1 glitch all the way through to act 2, by sacrificing about 15 seconds on the boss fight, since you have to do it without jumping. Using the glitch you can break into Knuckles's path, and well, if you remember how fast CN2 is with Knuckles... yeah, it virtually cuts act 2 in half.

Both Ice Cap 1 and Lava Reef 2 benefit from a quick pause - this lets me time my movement precisely and activate severe glitches. In IC1 I roll through the entire level with complete disregard for such obstacles as walls and spikes, and pausing allows me to easily hit the Lava Reef 2 level skip.

Lava Reef 1 has a new glitch whereby you can jump through a set of stairs - much like in the upcoming co-op run to skip the two-minute autoscrolling boss. Tails can't do this skip though; for some reason he can't jump into that particular set of stairs.

There's also a couple of more minor neat optimisations, like spindashing straight off the hill in Marble Garden 2 rather than trying to gamble with the moving platform. Relatedly, I think I have some sort of idea how that boss determines what pattern it's going to use in the fight now. The way I do act 1 I only ever get one of two patterns, and both are easy to two-round.

BTW, if you take out all the deaths from this run, the time comes out to... 35:00. Guess that's my new target time.

Alright, time to reveal my progress.

AI: 53 / 1:33
HC: 42 / 35 +7
MG: 1:02 / 49
CN: 1:14 / 1:21
IC: 1:20 / 1:06
LB: 1:11 / 1:47 +20 (14:00)
MH: 1:15 / 1:21
FB: 1:36 +34 / 1:24
SO: 1:16 / 2:55
LR: 1:59 / 2:27
HP: 31
SS: 1:07
DE: 1:58 +153 / 3:31

[b]TOTAL: 38:27[/b]

Yes, despite four deaths (two on DE1), that is actually my best time. It will only take a quick glance at some of the times, however, to tell that the game has changed significantly in the last couple of weeks.

First, in Carnival Night (might as well be one big zone now) you can carry the act 1 glitch all the way through to act 2, by sacrificing about 15 seconds on the boss fight, since you have to do it without jumping. Using the glitch you can break into Knuckles's path, and well, if you remember how fast CN2 is with Knuckles... yeah, it virtually cuts act 2 in half.

Both Ice Cap 1 and Lava Reef 2 benefit from a quick pause - this lets me time my movement precisely and activate severe glitches. In IC1 I roll through the entire level with complete disregard for such obstacles as walls and spikes, and pausing allows me to easily hit the Lava Reef 2 level skip.

Lava Reef 1 has a new glitch whereby you can jump through a set of stairs - much like in the upcoming co-op run to skip the two-minute autoscrolling boss. Tails can't do this skip though; for some reason he can't jump into that particular set of stairs.

There's also a couple of more minor neat optimisations, like spindashing straight off the hill in Marble Garden 2 rather than trying to gamble with the moving platform. Relatedly, I think I have some sort of idea how that boss determines what pattern it's going to use in the fight now. The way I do act 1 I only ever get one of two patterns, and both are easy to two-round.

BTW, if you take out all the deaths from this run, the time comes out to... 35:00. Guess that's my new target time.

mike89

Edit history:

mike89: 2011-02-02 04:45:24 am

2011-02-01 08:25:59 pm

SEGA Junkie

Well, that target didn't last long.

AI: 53 / 1:33
HC: 42 / 35 +7
MG: 57 / 58
CN: 1:02 / 1:17
IC: 1:20 / 1:10
LB: 48 / 1:41 (13:03!)
MH: 1:10 / 1:18
FB: 1:31 +49 / 1:25
SO: 1:14 / 2:51
LR: 2:05 / 2:28
HP: 31
SS: 1:02
DE: 1:55 / 3:21

TOTAL: 34:43

The death in FB1 is the only thing that stops this from being submitted instantly. Sad

Think I'm going to upload this one. EDIT: run is uploaded here.

dballin

2011-02-02 07:26:00 pm

Balls jerky

holy fuck! You're killing this game. I can't wait to see the finished result.

footbigmike

Edit history:

footbigmike: 2011-02-03 07:30:03 am

footbigmike: 2011-02-03 04:16:40 am

footbigmike: 2011-02-03 04:12:03 am

footbigmike: 2011-02-03 04:10:25 am

2011-02-03 03:58:21 am

At :50 in that video, would it not save time to jump straight from that ledge to the one with the rock on? At the speed you're going, it would probably save only a second or two, but hey, everything counts. (Unless there's a reason to not do that?)

EDIT: Oh, and you can skip the Ice Cap 1 boss as tails and go straight into Act 2. That could save a chunk of time as well. Or is that against a rule?
EDIT2: oooh, but this uses the individual act time for the timing, doesn't it. I guess it might even out, then. I might look into it anyway.

Fantastic runs so far, keep up the awesome work.

romscout

2011-02-03 11:43:12 am

that Metroidvania guy

Ouch @ the FB1 death. :c

Don't worry, you'll get it! The rest of the run looked way beyond submission-worthy. Absolutely crazy, like there's hardly a game there anymore lol

mike89

2011-02-03 03:35:44 pm

SEGA Junkie

Quote from footbigmike:

At :50 in that video, would it not save time to jump straight from that ledge to the one with the rock on? At the speed you're going, it would probably save only a second or two, but hey, everything counts. (Unless there's a reason to not do that?)

You're absolutely right, it does save about a second, but that jump is pretty finicky. If you jump just as you're going over the breakable block in the middle, the jump just doesn't register. Since I was going to get 53 anyway I didn't care too much and just kept playing.

footbigmike

2011-02-04 06:32:11 am

Okay, so after some testing, and checking with your video, skipping the IC1 boss would save about 5-10 seconds of act time. If I could do either act well enough to get a consistent time, the accuracy of those numbers could be better, but I can't. Obviously more real time is saved due to not having the scorecard at the end of the act, but that's not really relevant in this case.

Of course, you have to deal with random object oddities, and the egg capsule freeze. But, given your route and timing method, neither of those should be a problem.

mike89

2011-02-09 05:44:14 am

SEGA Junkie

I timed it at closer to 3 seconds, but I thought it was worth adding anyway since it's basically impossible to screw it up, so it's guaranteed time saved.

Speaking of that though, another run. I think I'm satisfied with it, but I'm not really sure.

AI: 52 / 1:34
HC: 42 / 36 +7
MG: 59 / 49
CN: 1:00 / 1:17
IC: 2:28 / 0:00 (!)
LB: 47/ 1:35 (12:46)
MH: 1:29 / 1:20
FB: 1:31 / 1:25
SO: 1:12 / 2:41
LR: 2:07 / 2:29
HP: 32
SS: 1:05
DE: 1:54 / 3:35

TOTAL: 34:06

That marks my first deathless run through with Tails! (Besides the obvious two intentional deaths.)

Ice Cap's times look pretty funny now; basically as Tails you can fly up to the top of the area just before the boss and fly over it - nothing changes in act 2 play, except that the game likes to freeze if you hit the capsule too quickly. What I term "Ice Cap 2" here is actually the section between hitting the capsule and going into Launch Base - the game brings up the IC2 title card and starts the timer! However you can do it in less than a second so no harm done.

This run would be instantly submitted if I didn't make a howler of a mistake in Mushroom Hill 1, where I missed the bounce off the speed shoes. DE2 was also 14 seconds slower than last time but I consider that forgivable considering everything that had gone before.

To submit or to keep going? Decisions, decisions...

I timed it at closer to 3 seconds, but I thought it was worth adding anyway since it's basically impossible to screw it up, so it's guaranteed time saved.

Speaking of that though, another run. I think I'm satisfied with it, but I'm not really sure.

AI: 52 / 1:34
HC: 42 / 36 +7
MG: 59 / 49
CN: 1:00 / 1:17
IC: 2:28 / 0:00 (!)
LB: 47/ 1:35  (12:46)
MH: 1:29 / 1:20
FB: 1:31 / 1:25
SO: 1:12 / 2:41
LR: 2:07 / 2:29
HP: 32
SS: 1:05
DE: 1:54 / 3:35

[b]TOTAL: 34:06[/b]

That marks my first deathless run through with Tails! (Besides the obvious two intentional deaths.)

Ice Cap's times look pretty funny now; basically as Tails you can fly up to the top of the area just before the boss and fly over it - nothing changes in act 2 play, except that the game likes to freeze if you hit the capsule too quickly. What I term "Ice Cap 2" here is actually the section between hitting the capsule and going into Launch Base - the game brings up the IC2 title card and starts the timer! However you can do it in less than a second so no harm done.

This run would be instantly submitted if I didn't make a howler of a mistake in Mushroom Hill 1, where I missed the bounce off the speed shoes. DE2 was also 14 seconds slower than last time but I consider that forgivable considering everything that had gone before.

To submit or to keep going? Decisions, decisions...

sinister1

2011-02-09 06:50:31 am

sinister1

so pro u don't even know

I say submit AND keep going. I have on three occasions submitted a run and then beat the time withing 24 hours. I think there is less pressure once you have submitted so you can play more relaxed and it is no big deal if you do not beat the time.

Zeupar

2011-02-09 10:57:05 am

Sonical!

I think that you should keep going until you get a sub-34 minutes run. Tongue

romscout

2011-02-09 02:42:18 pm

that Metroidvania guy

Quote from sinister1:

I say submit AND keep going. I have on three occasions submitted a run and then beat the time withing 24 hours. I think there is less pressure once you have submitted so you can play more relaxed and it is no big deal if you do not beat the time.

I agree with this, and had the same situation happen with my only run on the site so far. Your run with the FB1 death blew my mind as a casual viewer, so a run that's deathless and even better would be super impressive to basically anyone watching on SDA. There is nothing to be ashamed of with this run, and nothing is stopping you from trying to beat the time once you submit.

Flip

2011-02-09 11:48:27 pm

1-Up!

Yeah what rom said.

RoboSparkle

2011-02-10 12:18:31 am

Magical. Flying. Bathtub

I agree with that too.

What was the second intentional death? I thought it was just HC2?

mike89

2011-02-10 08:05:09 am

SEGA Junkie

You have to die at the end of Launch Base 1 to go back to the higher route. It happens so quickly that the timer doesn't even have a chance to restart though.

mike89

2011-02-16 06:58:27 am

SEGA Junkie

Another improvement, which once again brings up more questions than answers...

AI: 52 / 1:34
HC: 42 / 35 +7
MG: 58 / 47
CN: 1:00 / 1:20
IC: 2:28 / 0:01 (I blame IRC for this, this should always be 0)
LB: 47 / 1:41 (12:52)
MH: 1:11 / 1:17
FB: 1:33 / 1:27
SO: 1:14 / 2:50
LR: 1:52 / 2:28
HP: 32
SS: 1:00
DE: 1:49 / 3:21 +5

TOTAL: 33:31

THAT FUCKING FIRST ENEMY IN DE2 KILLED ME AGAIN. I came up with a reliable way of dodging it which on this one occasion decided not to work. I even frame-by-framed it. There is no way I hit that spike.

I guess the question now is, where to from here? I would feel awful submitting this run, and yet we're approaching the point where if I were to redo, even a run of better quality might not be faster, just because I got so much good luck in this run. In LR1 for example I got the jump through the stairs on the first attempt.

I'll keep working at it for a few more days. I'd already set a deadline of the weekend for any further improvements, because at some point I have to stop running this and move on to some of my other projects.

Another improvement, which once again brings up more questions than answers...

AI: 52 / 1:34
HC: 42 / 35 +7
MG: 58 / 47
CN: 1:00 / 1:20
IC: 2:28 / 0:01 (I blame IRC for this, this should always be 0)
LB: 47 / 1:41  (12:52)
MH: 1:11 / 1:17
FB: 1:33 / 1:27
SO: 1:14 / 2:50
LR: 1:52 / 2:28
HP: 32
SS: 1:00
DE: 1:49 / 3:21 +5

[b]TOTAL: 33:31[/b]

THAT FUCKING FIRST ENEMY IN DE2 KILLED ME AGAIN. I came up with a reliable way of dodging it which on this one occasion decided not to work. I even frame-by-framed it. There is no way I hit that spike.

I guess the question now is, where to from here? I would feel awful submitting this run, and yet we're approaching the point where if I were to redo, even a run of better quality might not be faster, just because I got so much good luck in this run. In LR1 for example I got the jump through the stairs on the first attempt.

I'll keep working at it for a few more days. I'd already set a deadline of the weekend for any further improvements, because at some point I have to stop running this and move on to some of my other projects.

Phở

2011-02-16 08:40:10 pm

Too cool for 7th grade.

You could submit both your 34:06 and 33:31 and let the verifiers decide.

VorpalEdge

2011-02-16 10:25:06 pm

welcome to the machine

The verifiers will decide 33:31, because it's the faster time. The death is pretty much just equivalent to any other five-second mistake. It's ugly, yeah, but a year down the road it'll actually be kinda funny. :p

Emptyeye

2011-02-17 05:57:24 am

Talk to the Hand

Yeah, this is SPEED Demos Archive, not STYLE Demos Archive or NO DEATH Demos Archive. </Radix>