Sonic 3 and Knuckles!

PJ

2011-02-17 06:23:55 am

Is PJ

Style Demos Archive is a great site.

RoboSparkle

2011-02-17 12:25:17 pm

Magical. Flying. Bathtub

Quote from VorpalEdge:

The verifiers will decide 33:31, because it's the faster time. The death is pretty much just equivalent to any other five-second mistake. It's ugly, yeah, but a year down the road it'll actually be kinda funny. :p

I agree. You may as well not post because you missed a jump that wound up costing 5 seconds or something. Of course, it's your choice if you wanna submit. All I'm saying is I'd accept that run if I was a verifier. Well done for getting the time stupidly low, by the way!

mike89

2011-02-19 05:16:28 pm

SEGA Junkie

Submitted 33:31, let's see how it goes!

pojr

2011-02-19 10:06:49 pm

The 33:31 run is as Tails, right? Anyway, I just came in to say that 0:50 Angel Island act 1 (as Knuckles) is very impressive. I've tried to emulate it a million times, and as close as my run appears to yours, mine still is much slower. The best I was able to do is 0:52, so I wanted to say congrats.

mike89

2011-05-12 07:28:13 pm

SEGA Junkie

I've uploaded my 33:31 run here. I think the comments are slightly out of date but whatever. I'll go back and fix them. Maybe.

Tiberius

2011-07-05 04:06:44 pm

Make it so.

Apologies for reviving what seems to be a pretty dead thread but I thought it would be better than starting an entirely new one...

I need some clarification before we begin, basically I now have a fair amount of free time due to completing my degree and I was thinking about getting some serious practice in and having a go at making an IL table for S3&K.

However long it might take me to get up to the awesome standard of mike89, I'm willing to try but I have a few questions first:

1. Will I need to make ILs of every level before an IL table is made?
2. Will seperate characters count as different categories or will it just be limited to the quickest? This obviously makes a huge difference as some levels change drastically with different characters.
3. If different characters are indeed seperate, then could a 'complete' IL table be submitted of the times with just one character or would all three (four if you count Sonic + Tails) be needed?

And one final thing, for a single-segment, would Sonic alone count as a seperate run to the 2-player one already on the site? If so then why isn't mike89's old run as Sonic alone still up there?

I realise that the answers to these might well be obvious to some of you but for the life of me I can't find the answers on the site anywhere so I thought asking here would be the best idea Grin

Apologies for reviving what seems to be a pretty dead thread but I thought it would be better than starting an entirely new one...

I need some clarification before we begin, basically I now have a fair amount of free time due to completing my degree and I was thinking about getting some serious practice in and having a go at making an IL table for S3&K.

However long it might take me to get up to the awesome standard of mike89, I'm willing to try but I have a few questions first:

1. Will I need to make ILs of [b]every level[/b] before an IL table is made?
2. Will seperate characters count as different categories or will it just be limited to the quickest? This obviously makes a huge difference as some levels change drastically with different characters.
3. If different characters are indeed seperate, then could a 'complete' IL table be submitted of the times with just one character or would all three (four if you count Sonic + Tails) be needed?

And one final thing, for a single-segment, would Sonic alone count as a seperate run to the 2-player one already on the site? If so then why isn't mike89's old run as Sonic alone still up there?

I realise that the answers to these might well be obvious to some of you but for the life of me I can't find the answers on the site anywhere so I thought asking here would be the best idea ;D

Zeupar

2011-07-05 05:20:00 pm

Sonical!

Quote:

And one final thing, for a single-segment, would Sonic alone count as a seperate run to the 2-player one already on the site? If so then why isn't mike89's old run as Sonic alone still up there?

If I remember correctly, that run as Sonic was really outdated and mike89 asked for it to be replaced with the new one so it didn't appear in the page for Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

Tiberius

2011-07-05 05:44:31 pm

Make it so.

Quote from Zeupar:

If I remember correctly, that run as Sonic was really outdated and mike89 asked for it to be replaced with the new one so it didn't appear in the page for Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

Hmm, so as long as I can persude mike89 not to go for it as well then I might have a chance there? Sweet Smiley

MatrixTN

2011-07-05 11:57:58 pm

You got a deletion wish?

Quote from Tiberius:

1. Will I need to make ILs of every level before an IL table is made?
2. Will seperate characters count as different categories or will it just be limited to the quickest? This obviously makes a huge difference as some levels change drastically with different characters.
3. If different characters are indeed seperate, then could a 'complete' IL table be submitted of the times with just one character or would all three (four if you count Sonic + Tails) be needed?

1. Yes, but others are permitted to chip in their submissions to the whole.

2. Separate is allowed provided there's differences between them (path, abilities)

3. No idea.

mike89

2011-07-06 08:18:03 am

SEGA Junkie

This might not make much sense to you if you're not familiar with all the new glitches being discovered, but basically an IL table no longer makes sense for this game. It would make much more sense to make a segmented run by zone.

Basically, a number of act 2s have glitches that require setup from the previous act 1, and it'd look quite bizarre to either a) not include the setup in the video, or b) have the times for those levels be potentially minutes slower than they could be in a single segment. Segmenting by zone eliminates all of this trouble, but of course makes each segment twice as hard.

Flying Fox

2011-07-06 08:27:44 am

Just out of curiosity were you thinking of doing a co-op run for this game?

Tiberius

2011-07-06 09:06:36 am

Make it so.

Quote from mike89:

This might not make much sense to you if you're not familiar with all the new glitches being discovered, but basically an IL table no longer makes sense for this game. It would make much more sense to make a segmented run by zone.

Basically, a number of act 2s have glitches that require setup from the previous act 1, and it'd look quite bizarre to either a) not include the setup in the video, or b) have the times for those levels be potentially minutes slower than they could be in a single segment. Segmenting by zone eliminates all of this trouble, but of course makes each segment twice as hard.

That's a good point, hadn't really thought that through... I'm guessing you're mainly referring to the major skips you can achive in Ice Cap and Lava Reef, oh and Flying Battery for the pod glitch, as well as timed elements... Do you know what the game uses to determine timed elements if you start from act two of any zone?

But yeah, you're right, segmented by zone would make considerably more sense. And I may have a go at the SS Sonic alone unless you have plans to run it at any point?

Quote from Flying Fox:

Just out of curiosity were you thinking of doing a co-op run for this game?

It's a possibility, my housemate for the next year is also an avid sonic fan so I guess it depends on whether I can persuade him to take the time to practice Tongue

I'm less likely to go straight for that though as in all honesty, I don't know if I could get as good as you two, your co-op run is probably my favourite run on this site, maybe being slightly topped by Stanski's entertaining commentary for Sonic 2 haha.

[quote="mike89"]This might not make much sense to you if you're not familiar with all the new glitches being discovered, but basically an IL table no longer makes sense for this game. It would make much more sense to make a segmented run by zone.

Basically, a number of act 2s have glitches that require setup from the previous act 1, and it'd look quite bizarre to either a) not include the setup in the video, or b) have the times for those levels be potentially [i]minutes[/i] slower than they could be in a single segment. Segmenting by zone eliminates all of this trouble, but of course makes each segment twice as hard.[/quote]

That's a good point, hadn't really thought that through... I'm guessing you're mainly referring to the major skips you can achive in Ice Cap and Lava Reef, oh and Flying Battery for the pod glitch, as well as timed elements... Do you know what the game uses to determine timed elements if you start from act two of any zone?

But yeah, you're right, segmented by zone would make considerably more sense. And I may have a go at the SS Sonic alone unless you have plans to run it at any point?

[quote="Flying Fox"]Just out of curiosity were you thinking of doing a co-op run for this game?[/quote]

It's a possibility, my housemate for the next year is also an avid sonic fan so I guess it depends on whether I can persuade him to take the time to practice :P

I'm less likely to go straight for that though as in all honesty, I don't know if I could get as good as you two, your co-op run is probably my favourite run on this site, maybe being slightly topped by Stanski's entertaining commentary for Sonic 2 haha.

Tiberius

Edit history:

Tiberius: 2011-07-08 09:14:12 am

2011-07-08 08:57:27 am

Make it so.

Started some testing today as Sonic on an emulator, within a few weeks I'll be in my new house with a 'cube and SMC so that will be much easier, I hate emulators.

Either way, it's starting to look quite promising, so far my best time for AI 1 is 00:55 but I think I can shave at least a second off that with some work. I think 00:55 would be a reasonable time anyway for a single segment, if only because getting the perfect result on the ramp jump followed by awkward spikes (where the second glide is in the knux run) is so tough.

AI 2 isn't as good yet but I'm getting sub 2:00 easily with some major mistakes.

Time to learn some Hydrocity routes...

wersterlobe

Edit history:

wersterlobe: 2011-07-08 10:10:22 pm

2011-07-08 06:46:07 pm

Try the top route with the speed shoes in AI1, if you can do it well it becomes faster and easier to get times of about 49-51.

Should've prolly mentioned a while ago too, but I'm planning on doing a Tails SS run of S3K, and I've practised co-op a little bit too, hoping to get a run done of that in the future. Still working on other games at the moment, but S3K is a game I know inside out, so if you need any help of some of the glitches, (Carnival Night wheel glitch, Ice Cap slope glitch for example aren't the easiest to figure out) feel free to ask me for help |:

Tiberius

2011-07-08 07:19:27 pm

Make it so.

Quote from wersterlobe:

Try the top route with the speed shoes in AI1, if you can do it well it becomes faster and easier to get times of about 49-51.

Should've prolly mentioned a while ago too, but I'm planning on doing a Tails SS run of S3K, and I've practised co-op a little bit too, hoping to get a run done of that in the future. Still working on other games at the moment, but S3K is a back I know inside out, so if you need any help of some of the glitches, (Carnival Night wheel glitch, Ice Cap slope glitch for example aren't the easiest to figure out) feel free to ask me for help |:

Any chance you know of any videos showing Sonic using the top route with the speed shoes? I've been having a go at it but I can't work out how you would save the time it takes to get up there in the first place (4-5 seconds min) never mind making up more time!

Some help with the glitches would be greatly appreciated though, I'm not quite there yet, and dont know when I will be due to work commitments etc, but a bit of explanation would help a huge amount thanks Smiley

[quote="wersterlobe"]Try the top route with the speed shoes in AI1, if you can do it well it becomes faster and easier to get times of about 49-51.

Should've prolly mentioned a while ago too, but I'm planning on doing a Tails SS run of S3K, and I've practised co-op a little bit too, hoping to get a run done of that in the future. Still working on other games at the moment, but S3K is a back I know inside out, so if you need any help of some of the glitches, (Carnival Night wheel glitch, Ice Cap slope glitch for example aren't the easiest to figure out) feel free to ask me for help |:[/quote]

Any chance you know of any videos showing Sonic using the top route with the speed shoes? I've been having a go at it but I can't work out how you would save the time it takes to get up there in the first place (4-5 seconds min) never mind making up more time!

Some help with the glitches would be greatly appreciated though, I'm not quite there yet, and dont know when I will be due to work commitments etc, but a bit of explanation would help a huge amount thanks :)

wersterlobe

2011-07-08 10:13:00 pm

Just did a quick run myself.

I've got a few other ILs on my channel if you wanna check them out too

Tiberius

2011-07-09 06:41:29 am

Make it so.

Ah! *slaps forehead* I'd been trying it completely wrong!

Thanks so much, I'll check out your other ILs this afternoon too, that one was sweet Smiley

footbigmike

Edit history:

footbigmike: 2011-07-28 06:18:29 pm

2011-07-28 06:14:30 pm

So, I've been playing a lot of Sonic 3 and Knuckles recently, and I think I discovered a good method for Sonic single-segment in Hydrocity 2. I saw wersterlobe's video using the same skip as Tails, but I can't seem to pull that off consistently (or at all, in fact). What I DID find is a skip that takes a little longer, but still a far cry better than going through the whole level. (Go to 1:10 to skip the "getting there" bit)

Note that this is not an attempt to show MY speed. I daresay any current S3K runner could shave a lot of time off what I do here. If this has been mentioned before, forgive me - but I couldn't see a reference to it in this thread, or any better method (aside from the stated above).

Tiberius

2011-07-28 06:47:18 pm

Make it so.

It's an interesting one, while I don't think it's particularly useful for Hydrocity 2 (the wall skip is definitely possible with Sonic alone, although I can't pull it off regularly yet) it could have some uses in other levels, maybe in Hydro 1...

That is if you can do it on any "pipe" that goes along the floor like that.

Time to get some testing done!

Also, any chance you could re-upload the vid with the original game sound? It's much easier to tell exactly what you're doing then as you glitch into the floor. It looks like you're just spindashing to get lower?

Cheers for sharing the find thumbsup

footbigmike

2011-07-28 07:08:07 pm

You CAN do it on any pipe that goes along the floor like that, but, unfortunately, they're only found in Hydrocity 2.

The audio was borked on the original, hence a re-do. Basically, once you've started sinking, you spindash facing left to get lower. Once you start moving to the right after a spindash, pressing right SHOULD start the zipping, but sometimes it doesn't happen. Not too sure on the specifics yet.

mike89

2011-07-28 11:17:40 pm

SEGA Junkie

That is known, it's actually the fastest way for Knuckles to do the stage, but because his boss room is higher, getting the height is VERY difficult. I've never been able to do it myself, the method in my speedrun that I use to get ~1:17 I find much more consistent. This path would yield about 55 if you got it right quickly.

wersterlobe

2011-07-29 01:26:17 am

=( I tried to post here a few hours ago, apparently it didn't work...

But yea, I have a video on youtube of doing the wall skip with sonic.

Also turns out doing that zip with Knux is nowhere near as hard as I made it out to be, you just have to glide onto a wall on the left, then glide onto a wall on the right and climb upwards and you'll make the boss room. 53 is best my IL time, for an SS sub minute is damn good.

Tiberius

2011-07-29 06:26:39 am

Make it so.

Do you have any tips fot getting the wall skip more regularly? I'm only getting it maybe 1/10, half the rest of the time I'm not phazing into the wall at all and the other half I'm just dying...

Also, why are you not doing a run Wersterlobe? You would be way better than me!

And one other thing for now, has anyone apart from Eredani ever made the ridiculous ramp jump in MG1 with Sonic alone? The one thats meant to be a tails route but knux can do by wall-jumping the climbing... I doubt it's a viable strat for single-segment anyway but just in case there is a trick to it.

wersterlobe

2011-07-29 02:13:13 pm

I've done it, but yeah that jump with sonic alone is super hard...

I was planning on doing a run, but at this stage I have no genesis/megadrive to actually do one on, so I'm focusing on my other 5 or so runs first. Though I'd be doing SS runs, and sonic would be the last category I would ever consider too...

mike89

Edit history:

mike89: 2011-08-01 12:46:45 pm

2011-08-01 08:08:16 am

SEGA Junkie

Just thought I'd let anyone watching this topic know - I've got my setup together and I'm streaming Sonic 3 and Knuckles attempts practically daily now at http://justin.tv/mike89sda . Knuckles to start off with, but I might switch to Tails if I get too disheartened with the tricks in this one.

EDIT: 28:05 Knuckles run just now! That's not the true SDA time since I died once and used a path that wouldn't be seen in an SDA run in Launch Base 2, but it's far superior to the current run. Now to get Ice Cap, Flying Battery 2 and Sandopolis 1 all at once...