I have to agree that if resetting saves any time at all, then SS w/resets should be allowed as a category. Having an arbitrary % of time saved for it be allowed doesn't make much sense to me. Take FF7 for example: skipping the Midgar Zolom is much faster with a save and reset, but since it's such a long run, it doesn't come close to the percentage needed for it to qualify. Now, not allowing resets for unintentional deaths/failing tricks, I can understand that, since that is obviously not a reset that is saving time (like me failing Slots in FF7). That wouldn't get past verification anyway though.
SDA Forum
Quote from presjpolk:
Which I think probably can be done. My personal feeling is that SS+Resets represents a realistic practice people actually use on consoles, even outside the context of speedrunning, in order to accomplish things faster and easier. And so it should be allowed for that reason. It's not really a glitch or a hardware hack.
Caution: This user contains Kana ^_^
It was there first xD
On a more serious basis: SS w/R is in some cases similar to unoptimised segmented. w/out resets, you are really forced to play a game in one go (at best even without deaths). Which in some games creates a higher difficulty or requires more/different planning skills. I really wouldn't want it to go altogether, but I'm probably fine with swapping things around, i.e. making SS w/R the default and SS w/outR the special one.
And there was a reason why it wasn't called RTA, wasn't there? *can't remember*
hey wow, Kotti, are you an early riser, late sleeper or way away from home? xD
On a more serious basis: SS w/R is in some cases similar to unoptimised segmented. w/out resets, you are really forced to play a game in one go (at best even without deaths). Which in some games creates a higher difficulty or requires more/different planning skills. I really wouldn't want it to go altogether, but I'm probably fine with swapping things around, i.e. making SS w/R the default and SS w/outR the special one.
And there was a reason why it wasn't called RTA, wasn't there? *can't remember*
hey wow, Kotti, are you an early riser, late sleeper or way away from home? xD
Quote from Alko:
It was there first xD
On a more serious basis: SS w/R is in some cases similar to unoptimised segmented. w/out resets, you are really forced to play a game in one go (at best even without deaths). Which in some games creates a higher difficulty or requires more/different planning skills. I really wouldn't want it to go altogether, but I'm probably fine with swapping things around, i.e. making SS w/R the default and SS w/outR the special one.
And there was a reason why it wasn't called RTA, wasn't there? *can't remember*
hey wow, Kotti, are you an early riser, late sleeper or way away from home? xD
On a more serious basis: SS w/R is in some cases similar to unoptimised segmented. w/out resets, you are really forced to play a game in one go (at best even without deaths). Which in some games creates a higher difficulty or requires more/different planning skills. I really wouldn't want it to go altogether, but I'm probably fine with swapping things around, i.e. making SS w/R the default and SS w/outR the special one.
And there was a reason why it wasn't called RTA, wasn't there? *can't remember*
hey wow, Kotti, are you an early riser, late sleeper or way away from home? xD
Like I said before, SS without resets should be considered as a separate category in cases where resetting changes the route massively. Like with any other major skip, if it calls for a separate category, let there be a separate category. And if I'm understanding the first post right it's SS+R to be fair towards the old non-reset runs, which seems a bit pointless anyway since like said many times before, even if a run with resets is faster, it's not going to be accepted if it's overall worse than an existing run without resets.
I'm a late sleeper who just broke his sleep schedule completely.
Claimh Happy
Quote from presjpolk:
Quote from Kotti:
Just because SDA is big doesn't mean the system is good. The goal of a speedrun is to achieve the fastest time possible. Resetting can save time and is not a cheat. Resetting is not allowed. To me it sounds like a pretty dumb contradiction in any case.
Yeah well just because some other site does something a different way, it doesn't mean SDA's way is bad.
I think you've got to argue the merits of SS+Resets on their own, without an appeal to authority.
Cool, because that's exactly what he did. He didn't mention other sites' rules anywhere in that post.
Quote:
It's not really a glitch or a hardware hack.
I'm nitpicking a bit here, but I hope you meant "cheat" and not "glitch"
Gets the cake.
I'm going to be honest and hopefully not exceptionally rude here. The 5% rule for resets to be allowed is pretty dumb, imo. Just allow them, period. Make it an extra category if you must, but it's just so arbitrary to me. SDA doesn't have a policy against glitches/tricks that save less than 5% of the run time, so why are resets different? Resetting doesn't detract from the run, it makes it go faster. Faster = better, that's what we do.
Quote from presjpolk:
Here's one big reason SDA doesn't have to do diddly:
If SDA were a smaller site struggling for relevance, that'd be a good reason to bow to what some other site does in terms of rules.
But it's not. SDA is doing fine. So SDA can make decisions according to what the SDA community wants. If that means SS+R everywhere, so be it. If not, then... so be it. There's room for ZSR, SDA, and plenty of other sites on the Intertubes.
SDA did fine when some Half Life runners continued to use macros in spite of SDA rules. SDA will do fine if it does things some ZSR runners want to do.
Again, not to say things should be kept he same for the sake of being different, but what some other site does isn't reason in itself for SDA to change.
If SDA were a smaller site struggling for relevance, that'd be a good reason to bow to what some other site does in terms of rules.
But it's not. SDA is doing fine. So SDA can make decisions according to what the SDA community wants. If that means SS+R everywhere, so be it. If not, then... so be it. There's room for ZSR, SDA, and plenty of other sites on the Intertubes.
SDA did fine when some Half Life runners continued to use macros in spite of SDA rules. SDA will do fine if it does things some ZSR runners want to do.
Again, not to say things should be kept he same for the sake of being different, but what some other site does isn't reason in itself for SDA to change.
But other sites' rules have nothing to do with why we should change our rules. We should change our rules because our rules are stupid and inconsistent with our overall philosophy (and inconsistent in general).
Forget that other sites are out there. They have absolutely nothing to do with the core argument here.
HELLO!
Update: SS+Resets on my currently Ultima Exodus route will save about 10 minutes on average, on a run that is probably going to take about an 1:45.
I really thought they'd save more. It'll be a lot more reliable, things can go wrong in the no-resets gold grinding that cannot in the reset grinding.
EDIT: Right after posting this I made a full run attempt and just got clobbered. It's actually the case that the no-resets run will require even more time to be at ALL reliable. I have to buy about twice the sands I was hoping to get away with, and have to be very particular about going down and healing at the bottom of Level 8 of the Cave of gold, while gathering all the gold chests on Level 7. Poor Cal the trap springer will die if I don't.
So yeah, I'm estimating it'll actually save 15 minutes at this point.
I really thought they'd save more. It'll be a lot more reliable, things can go wrong in the no-resets gold grinding that cannot in the reset grinding.
EDIT: Right after posting this I made a full run attempt and just got clobbered. It's actually the case that the no-resets run will require even more time to be at ALL reliable. I have to buy about twice the sands I was hoping to get away with, and have to be very particular about going down and healing at the bottom of Level 8 of the Cave of gold, while gathering all the gold chests on Level 7. Poor Cal the trap springer will die if I don't.
So yeah, I'm estimating it'll actually save 15 minutes at this point.