Single Segment with Resets Now Accepted [locked]

2011-08-21 10:30:28 pm

I've never played it but I'm guessing it works like

1. Get skull
2. Reset game, skull is still active after the reset
3. Start a new game

?

scurty

Edit history:

scurty: 2011-08-21 11:08:19 pm

2011-08-21 10:45:10 pm

Quote from Flip:

Wait, I'm confused. Are all levels available from the beginning? How are you going to grab the skull from a level you haven't played up to yet and then use the skull in all 13 levels?

From a different profile. You can have a save on a certain level as close as possible to the skull, save and quit, switch profiles, start a new game. This seems a little weird though. This is why I am assuming it's not allowed. I can make a video for you if you like, that would probably clear up a lot of things.

Quote from Miles:

I've never played it but I'm guessing it works like

1. Get skull
2. Reset game, skull is still active after the reset
3. Start a new game

?

Actually, that negates all skull effects. The Halo 2 video posted earlier in this thread takes advantage of that fact to give you permanent camouflage. We aren't resetting the game system when we do this.. I'll make a video in a few minutes of what we are talking about.

Edit:

Here is the video

Where the video ends is where the run begins after the loading screen.

[quote="Flip"]Wait, I'm confused. Are all levels available from the beginning? How are you going to grab the skull from a level you haven't played up to yet and then use the skull in all 13 levels?[/quote]

From a different profile. You can have a save on a certain level as close as possible to the skull, save and quit, switch profiles, start a new game. This seems a little weird though. This is why I am assuming it's not allowed. I can make a video for you if you like, that would probably clear up a lot of things.

[quote="Miles"]I've never played it but I'm guessing it works like

1. Get skull
2. Reset game, skull is still active after the reset
3. Start a new game

?[/quote]

Actually, that negates all skull effects. The Halo 2 video posted earlier in this thread takes advantage of that fact to give you permanent camouflage. We aren't resetting the game system when we do this.. I'll make a video in a few minutes of what we are talking about.

Edit:

Here is the video

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SAccn1nvkw[/url]

Where the video ends is where the run begins after the loading screen.

CMiller

Edit history:

CMiller: 2011-08-22 03:18:28 pm

CMiller: 2011-08-22 03:17:59 pm

2011-08-22 03:17:24 pm

Quote from Flip:

How much time is saved using said skull and how long would the run be without it?

Regardless, grabbing the envy skull during a SS run, then using the infinite camo glitch (which involves turning off the xbox), would save over ten minutes on Gravemind, so resets would benefit Halo 2 greatly considering Gravemind is a long and difficult level.

If you allow us to load different profiles during the run, subtract another 4 as per Scurty's comment.

So you're looking at 15 minutes of time saved over the course of a 2:45 to 3 hour run.

Flip

2011-08-22 07:07:46 pm

1-Up!

Ah ok. Loading a save to grab the skull and then starting a fresh save won't be allowed.

If you want to grab the skull and do the the infinite camo glitch in one run, that might be acceptable. If that were the case (no different profiles allowed), how much time would be saved and how long would a run be without it (looking for something more precise than 2:45-3:00).

scurty

2011-08-22 07:22:39 pm

Definitely 10 minutes of time saved. Riskier tricks can be attempted, almost 0 chance of dying.

The way I see it now, the individual levels added up, on a good run, should be about 2:05:00. With SDA timing it'd be closer to 2:09:00 with all small cutscene skips inbetween levels. Without the glitch, add 10 minutes, roughly.

I DO plan on running this game in the near future, so a ruling on this would be good to know. Like Cody said, this is one of the longer levels in the game. If there is one level to use the infinite camo glitch on, this would be it. All other levels are too short to be used on effectively.

Also the infinite camo glitch works on the one profile so there should be no problems there. We simply save and quit, restart the Xbox, and then resume the game from where we left off.

Flip

2011-08-22 08:33:45 pm

1-Up!

This is kinda borderline IMO, but I'll allow it.

Anonymous52555

Edit history:

Anonymous52555: 2011-08-23 04:19:13 pm

2011-08-23 04:01:47 pm

Metroidvanias are God Tier

In the game Maze of Galious after you beat dungeon 9, the 10th and final dungeon is located in a random spot on the map, one of them being 5 minutes away, however one of it's locations is on the Start room, which is the room you go to if you reload the game. Also everytime you reload the game the dungeon moves around, so if I were to reload it enough it would eventually spawn in the Start room which can save a ton of time. However on the other side, the start room would take about 10 seconds to get to.

So I could see where you would reject this game, but I'm just wanting to know if you would accept this kind of run because resetting 45-50 minutes into a run do to factors you cannot control get's very annoying.

Edit: I just thought of another reason. In the game there is an item called "The Bible" and it will let you freeze enemies (and bosses) in place for about 10 seconds. This item is very useful for speeding up earlier bosses but it has limited uses and will usually run out by boss 7. So if I can use this on later bosses I could save a couple minutes.

In the game Maze of Galious after you beat dungeon 9, the 10th and final dungeon is located in a random spot on the map, one of them being 5 minutes away, however one of it's locations is on the Start room, which is the room you go to if you reload the game. Also everytime you reload the game the dungeon moves around, so if I were to reload it enough it would eventually spawn in the Start room which can save a ton of time. However on the other side, the start room would take about 10 seconds to get to.

So I could see where you would reject this game, but I'm just wanting to know if you would accept this kind of run because resetting 45-50 minutes into a run do to factors you cannot control get's very annoying.

Edit: I just thought of another reason. In the game there is an item called "The Bible" and it will let you freeze enemies (and bosses) in place for about 10 seconds. This item is very useful for speeding up earlier bosses but it has limited uses and will usually run out by boss 7. So if I can use this on later bosses I could save a couple minutes.

Flip

2011-08-23 09:48:23 pm

1-Up!

Not enough benefit outside of resets for luck manip.

CMiller

2011-08-23 11:43:49 pm

Quote from Flip:

Not enough benefit outside of resets for luck manip.

If the benefit is small, why not simply allow resets but just not include it as a separate category?

Aftermath

Edit history:

Aftermath: 2011-08-24 12:22:23 am

2011-08-23 11:52:42 pm

Quits halfway

Quick question, once a game is allowed to use resets for big timesavers, should we try to use them wherever optimizes the run? There's a few places where you have to backtrack for items in Darksiders and it autosaves when you get them, so in certain areas you can reload and save some time. I haven't tested all of them, but currently there's about 30 seconds saved from 2 reloads, a third I need to test would be an additional 30 or so seconds.

It's fine if you say no, I'd rather not do them anyway Tongue

romscout

2011-08-24 10:17:26 am

that Metroidvania guy

I'm practicing Oracle of Seasons mainly for AGDQ but also plan to do a run for SDA eventually when I'm good at it (might be a while). I've been doing the run with save warps, and it saves countless minutes in dungeons and even allows for some sequence breaks (notably skipping a key in dungeon 6). I'd estimate like 7-8 minutes being saved (it's about 4 minutes saved halfway through the route so far and the dungeon 6 key skip saves a TON of time on its own later) and the run looks to be sub-2 hours. I'm running it like this for AGDQ anyway and I'll probably never bother doing a full SS run w/o resets since there's so many more rooms where you can get unlucky and it's infuriating, so hopefully save warping's acceptable here. :p

dballin

2011-08-24 04:49:06 pm

Balls jerky

That post ^ only replace Seasons with Ages. Except of course about the sub 2 hours part...

ridd3r.

2011-08-28 10:34:23 am

we have lift off

I've tested Max Payne and estimate 2:20-2:40 saved. This is literally by playing through both ways and timing the difference. All of this time is because of save glitching (which requires a well placed quick save and then you need to reload that save). The total length of a SS run is just under 58 minutes, so a SS w/ resets would be a mid 55.

Note I haven't decided if I'm doing this yet, but I have accurately tested it.

Flip

2011-09-02 01:57:49 pm

1-Up!

Quote from CMiller:

Quote from Flip:

Not enough benefit outside of resets for luck manip.

If the benefit is small, why not simply allow resets but just not include it as a separate category?

This would lead to a slippery slope that I don't want to go down. Too early in the life of SS w/ Resets to start handing out exceptions.

Quote from Aftermath:

Quick question, once a game is allowed to use resets for big timesavers, should we try to use them wherever optimizes the run? There's a few places where you have to backtrack for items in Darksiders and it autosaves when you get them, so in certain areas you can reload and save some time. I haven't tested all of them, but currently there's about 30 seconds saved from 2 reloads, a third I need to test would be an additional 30 or so seconds.

It's fine if you say no, I'd rather not do them anyway Tongue

Consider it like segmentation. If you do a segmented run, and fail to segment where it would have saved time, the verifiers will not like it. If you're allowed to use resets to save time, then you should use them wherever time can be saved.

Quote from romscout:

I'm practicing Oracle of Seasons mainly for AGDQ but also plan to do a run for SDA eventually when I'm good at it (might be a while). I've been doing the run with save warps, and it saves countless minutes in dungeons and even allows for some sequence breaks (notably skipping a key in dungeon 6). I'd estimate like 7-8 minutes being saved (it's about 4 minutes saved halfway through the route so far and the dungeon 6 key skip saves a TON of time on its own later) and the run looks to be sub-2 hours. I'm running it like this for AGDQ anyway and I'll probably never bother doing a full SS run w/o resets since there's so many more rooms where you can get unlucky and it's infuriating, so hopefully save warping's acceptable here. :p

Should be ok. Give me estimates for total time w/o warps and time w/ warps when you have good data.

Quote from dballin:

That post ^ only replace Seasons with Ages. Except of course about the sub 2 hours part...

Same as my reply to romscout.

Quote from ridd3r.:

I've tested Max Payne and estimate 2:20-2:40 saved. This is literally by playing through both ways and timing the difference. All of this time is because of save glitching (which requires a well placed quick save and then you need to reload that save). The total length of a SS run is just under 58 minutes, so a SS w/ resets would be a mid 55.

Note I haven't decided if I'm doing this yet, but I have accurately tested it.

I appreciate you checking both ways and giving me good estimates. By my calculations, we're looking at ~4.3% time saved due to resets. I'm still formulating what I think is an acceptable threshold but I'm pretty sure it should be at least 5%, if not more. If you do decide you want to run this category check back with me and I'll probably have made up my mind by then.

[quote="CMiller"][quote="Flip"]Not enough benefit outside of resets for luck manip.[/quote]

If the benefit is small, why not simply allow resets but just not include it as a separate category?[/quote]
This would lead to a slippery slope that I don't want to go down. Too early in the life of SS w/ Resets to start handing out exceptions.

[quote="Aftermath"]Quick question, once a game is allowed to use resets for big timesavers, should we try to use them wherever optimizes the run? There's a few places where you have to backtrack for items in Darksiders and it autosaves when you get them, so in certain areas you can reload and save some time. I haven't tested all of them, but currently there's about 30 seconds saved from 2 reloads, a third I need to test would be an additional 30 or so seconds.

It's fine if you say no, I'd rather not do them anyway :P[/quote]
Consider it like segmentation. If you do a segmented run, and fail to segment where it would have saved time, the verifiers will not like it. If you're allowed to use resets to save time, then you should use them wherever time can be saved.

[quote="romscout"]I'm practicing Oracle of Seasons mainly for AGDQ but also plan to do a run for SDA eventually when I'm good at it (might be a while). I've been doing the run with save warps, and it saves countless minutes in dungeons and even allows for some sequence breaks (notably skipping a key in dungeon 6). I'd estimate like 7-8 minutes being saved (it's about 4 minutes saved halfway through the route so far and the dungeon 6 key skip saves a TON of time on its own later) and the run looks to be sub-2 hours. I'm running it like this for AGDQ anyway and I'll probably never bother doing a full SS run w/o resets since there's so many more rooms where you can get unlucky and it's infuriating, so hopefully save warping's acceptable here. :p[/quote]
Should be ok. Give me estimates for total time w/o warps and time w/ warps when you have good data.

[quote="dballin"]That post ^ only replace Seasons with Ages. Except of course about the sub 2 hours part...[/quote]
Same as my reply to romscout.

[quote="ridd3r."]I've tested Max Payne and estimate 2:20-2:40 saved. This is literally by playing through both ways and timing the difference. All of this time is because of save glitching (which requires a well placed quick save and then you need to reload that save). The total length of a SS run is [i]just[/i] under 58 minutes, so a SS w/ resets would be a mid 55.

Note I haven't decided if I'm doing this yet, but I have accurately tested it.[/quote]
I appreciate you checking both ways and giving me good estimates. By my calculations, we're looking at ~4.3% time saved due to resets. I'm still formulating what I think is an acceptable threshold but I'm pretty sure it should be [i]at least[/i] 5%, if not more. If you do decide you want to run this category check back with me and I'll probably have made up my mind by then.

ExtremeYoshiFan

Edit history:

ExtremeYoshiFan: 2011-09-02 02:46:53 pm

ExtremeYoshiFan: 2011-09-02 02:45:35 pm

ExtremeYoshiFan: 2011-09-02 02:45:26 pm

ExtremeYoshiFan: 2011-09-02 02:44:33 pm

2011-09-02 02:40:03 pm

Alright, I don't know how it was passed up, but I am fully serious about running Pokemon Pearl, and resets easily save 2 hours, and possibly up to 3 if properly utilized with my current path(along with some luck). So, can I have the OK for the Generation IV games?

Right now we are looking at less than 1.5 hours as opposed to 4 or more. In a math standpoint, that is a 62% increase in efficiency.

And this is on a US copy, on the Japanese copy(which I assume has less text), you could potentially save even more time.

Flip

2011-09-02 03:52:37 pm

1-Up!

Sorry for overlooking. Added.

Musashi

Edit history:

Musashi: 2011-09-25 11:06:56 am

2011-09-25 11:03:12 am

But time flows like a river...

Hello.

I wanna ask if this reset is allowed, the game is Secret of Mana, and here I try to explain it.

The glitch allow you to skip the Underground City Palace before the Tree Palace (Dryad's Palace, NOT PureLand), this trick is saving ~15minutes, and this is how it is working:

When you get Flammy, go to Ice Country at Neko's place, save your game in any slot, then continue your game, then when you reach the lost continent (the Tree Palace), kill the first boss Aegagropilon, then when the continent appears, instead of entering in it, go back to Neko's place, then save in another slot.
Go back to the continent, enter in the Underground City Palace, then use the reset (start+select+L+R), choose the first save, you will spawn in the same place, but with your old stats, just go out of the Undeground City Palace, and now the stairs appeared, enter in the Tree Palace, then reset your game one more time, and finally restore the second save, and you will respawn in the Tree Palace with your current stats, skipping the Underground City Palace.

Hope it's clear, I'm not really good about explanation, actually I'm trying this run, I can't say if I'm going to submit it, but this is in a good way.

Thanks !

Hello.

I wanna ask if this reset is allowed, the game is Secret of Mana, and here I try to explain it.

The glitch allow you to skip the Underground City Palace before the Tree Palace (Dryad's Palace, NOT PureLand), this trick is saving ~15minutes, and this is how it is working:

When you get Flammy, go to Ice Country at Neko's place, save your game in any slot, then continue your game, then when you reach the lost continent (the Tree Palace), kill the first boss Aegagropilon, then when the continent appears, instead of entering in it, go back to Neko's place, then save in another slot.
Go back to the continent, enter in the Underground City Palace, then use the reset (start+select+L+R), choose the first save, you will spawn in the same place, but with your old stats, just go out of the Undeground City Palace, and now the stairs appeared, enter in the Tree Palace, then reset your game one more time, and finally restore the second save, and you will respawn in the Tree Palace with your current stats, skipping the Underground City Palace.

Hope it's clear, I'm not really good about explanation, actually I'm trying this run, I can't say if I'm going to submit it, but this is in a good way.

Thanks !

Flip

2011-09-25 01:37:50 pm

1-Up!

How long would the entire run be without this exploit?

Musashi

Edit history:

Musashi: 2011-09-25 02:48:43 pm

Musashi: 2011-09-25 02:48:25 pm

Musashi: 2011-09-25 02:44:31 pm

Musashi: 2011-09-25 02:38:16 pm

Musashi: 2011-09-25 02:37:25 pm

2011-09-25 02:32:54 pm

But time flows like a river...

Well I'm planning a full glitchy run, without this glitch the final timer should be 3h35-3h50, maybe more because this palace is really hard and the AI is so stupid.

Flip

2011-09-27 07:20:02 pm

1-Up!

Added Secret of Mana.

Musashi

2011-09-28 08:50:39 am

But time flows like a river...

Yay, thanks. Wink

D F

2011-09-28 06:57:21 pm

So what happens in the unlikely scenario that a run using reset-related glitches is published and then beaten by a run that has a faster route not using reset-related glitches?

Flip

2011-09-28 07:40:19 pm

1-Up!

SS can obsolete SS w/ Resets.

bloodisblue

2011-10-02 10:50:08 am

Game title : Endeavor
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/555072 link to the game

Reasoning behind Single Segment with Resets
In Endeavor you are able to save anywhere by exiting out to the title screen. This replaces you back at the first map of the underground section of the game. From this area there are a multitude of gems which once collected throughout the world allow you to warp to where they were collected. This is the fastest way of back tracking available in the game.
My run uses this to save a great amount of time. Using two resets saves about 30-45 seconds because of cutting out platforming segments and having a more optimized soul collection route. For a 5-6 minute run this is a highly significant amount of time saved.

Flip

2011-10-03 05:33:15 pm

1-Up!

Allowed.