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Dragondarch: 2007-12-12 01:35:29 pm
I said I'd start this topic when M&L reached the recording phase (provided my DVD Recorder doesn't eat any more of my runs...RIP Julius Hard Mode 8:58 and 8:52)

Anyway, But yeah, there's one more AoS run I'm in the middle of, then on to recording M&L - I ave everything planned up until Lil' Fungitown at which point I need to run ahead and check a couple things that I lost when I had to reformat my PC.

I'll just leave it at that, and let you guys start us off (/points at Enhasa  :-*) while I get this last AoS run done, and start my research on Lufia II (which should be tomorrow provided nothing unexpected happens).
Thread title:  
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
Ok, I'll take the bait! I'm mostly gonna copy crap from the Lufia 1 thread for now.

Mr Nice Guy did a test run in 6:37, but I didn't pay it much attention because I thought it could be better. At least we know sub 7 is a guarantee. I think sub 5 is a good time to shoot for. Hopefully it's possible.

This is some general stuff I had in the other thread:
If you need help vs Idura (hardest fight in the game but I doubt it), the Reds would be useful. No point in fighting Nos since by that point every fight is cake.

More details when it's time but here are some general points:
1) No leveling.
2) No Ancient Cave.
3) No capsule monsters.
4) Redo segments until you get useful drops such as Catfish Jewel. This sounds kinda crazy but there are people who do this for normal play, so it can't be that bad.
5) This is what I am referring to by "crocodile hunter" btw. Use items when they're better. Boomerang fucking owns everyone at the beginning of the game.
6) Don't get the chests that involve, say, doing a 1 minute puzzle to get. Battles are pretty fast in this game anyway.
7) Two people to talk to: quietkane at bisqwit's, who did a good TAS WIP up to the Ancient Cave, and relnqshd at gamefaqs, who is a romhacker who could tell you all the formulas and everything you ever wanted to know about this game.

From trying out the beginning, I realize that running Lufia 2 will require a lot of route planning just within dungeons to optimize them. It'll also require a lot of play skill since Maxim moves so fast and you need to be able to do the puzzles quickly, make sure you stun enemies instead of meeting them, and so on. And of course there's the normal RPG macro level planning. It seems like it'd all be real fun though.

One more thing before I forget. I said this somewhere else, but I'll say it again. After Dragondarch does a Normal game run, I will try a Gift mode run (i.e. from scratch) of the Ancient Cave. Don't expect anywhere near perfection because this is obviously one of the most random things ever, and definitely on SDA. (I can do 5 minutes with massive save state abuse on ZSNES heh.) Oh and before anyone asks I will do the suicide vs Master Jelly. That seems like a given to me but I bet someone would ask.

Mr Nice Guy posted a time of 27 mins to get Tia and save in the town. I wanted to see what I could do, so I did a SS to there in one try and got 12 mins with the Insect Crush. So like Lufia 1, that's a guideline for the very beginning of the game. The main things are to be minimalist and abuse Boomerangs. Also obviously you want to use all the dungeon shortcuts like using those jumping down arrows.

Here is the thread for the Lufia 2 WIP (stalled at the AC) at TASvideos. quietkane has started work again, so dunno if a full version can come out fast enough to be useful. The WIP could be more optimized, but at the very least, it's a good watch to find out the very best ways to do the puzzles and navigate through the dungeons. There were a couple of instances where there was a slightly faster way to do some of the puzzles than conventional wisdom.
Battle Is My Forte
well, i got the 27 minutes because of BAD LUCK :/
Stupid catfish kept using Quacke >_<

Although the quoted section says "no capsule monsters", wouldnt it be handy to at least have 1, since it can take a hit if the enemy attacks normally(not magic of course).

Gades first fight must be a no go, since you need to be lv20 and have some MUST HAVE items from dungeons... Perhaps on New Game+

Got to portravia and immideantly leave, and go to Chaed so you can buy the best equips until you reach Narvick.

World's most difficult puzzle must be skipped. Unless you can do it fast of course. That Dragon killing weapon might come in use.

Buy stuff carefully, since i was having trouble buy good equip because i bought equips in the previous town and run out of money.

Perhaps only the first set of Dragon Eggs is good. That way you can skip the boxes containing S-Rings (if you want that wish) or an Old Shield.
Fucking Weeaboo
1st boss fight can be beaten on Lv 2.  Get yourself some boomerangs from Tia.

And remember the most insane thing of them all: Every chest in Doom Island is a Miracle.
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
That's understandable you got 27 mins because of bad luck, but a real run will obviously not have any bad luck. Wink

IF you were to get any capsule monsters at all, it would be only 1, as the difference between any of them will not be large enough to bother getting. (I definitely don't think it's worth it, and besides, with Dragon's history, he skipped item creation in SO3, which is much more debatable than this would ever be.) It would probably be Blaze, although Jelze is quicker to get, because Blaze has better offense and could be useful vs Tarantula. Boomerangs make Jelze a spectator early on anyway. Also, you would never feed your capsule monster because that takes a lot of time. Finally, it is a guarantee that later on, the time it takes them to attack is not worth it, so you should permanently bench them. Like I said, my opinion is permanent benching from the beginning. I will use Gusto for AC if you really want to see capsule monster use though.

Stepping into towns so you can warp there later is a good idea like you said.

It doesn't matter if you could do the Bricks puzzle frame perfect. It's not worth it. After a certain point in the game, the difficulty goes way down and you are crushing through the bosses anyway.

Oh, I forgot to say that I am definitely against Dragon Eggs. I think you even need to backtrack into a couple dungeons, which is a definite no-no. Even if you didn't, and there was a good reward, it's not worth it because the game gets easier near the end like I said. In Lufia 1, it's useful to gain 2 levels. There's nothing nowhere near that useful here. The stat up potions take time to use too.

1st boss fight (Lizard Man) should be done at level 1. I fought exactly one battle (the frog right in front) to do Master Catfish at level 5 instead of 4. It might be a good idea to do at level 4, dunno, but you'd need to spend more time using Potions so maybe not.

At any rate, Lizard Man dies to 2 Boomerangs. Master Catfish dies to 4. Something like 1 Red Jelly you can just kill with one attack, but every regular encounter that takes more than one hit should be done with 1 Boomerang. A godsend against those eagles.

It's not worth picking up those Miracles, since the Sinistrals are absolute cake. Sounds crazy because Miracles are essential in 1, but it's true.
Killer Chobocos don't get any chocolate.
I recommend no pet until you get Blaze... ditch blaze before you leave for Bound... don't get Flash... and use Gusto until you beat the last Idura... then never use capsules again

Edit history:
Enhasa: 2006-06-23 07:16:00 am
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
That's the first capsule monster related suggestion I've heard that actually might make sense. The problem with them though, well... in most RPG runs the biggest thing most people miss is that it is faster to defend than to attack with a character that does relatively low damage. People often miss this because it goes against years of RPG playing experience.

So that's what the capsule monsters are like IIRC. Their attacks just generally aren't worth the time they take to execute. Especially against bosses, which is most of the fights in a speedrun.

The TAS WIP skipped capsule monsters too FWIW. And if anything, they're better there because they can be luck manipulated.
Lokarin: I recommend no pet until you get Blaze... ditch blaze before you leave for Bound... don't get Flash... and use Gusto until you beat the last Idura... then never use capsules again

Enhasa: That's the first capsule monster related suggestion I've heard that actually might make sense.

Oddly enough, that's what I was contemplating last night while at work.

(Note: I'll be double checking all these)
Jelze: No. Easy to get, but IIRC there's no immediate boss in the next area (Alunze Castle Basement I think), so he wouldn't have enough bang beyond that.
Blaze: Yes. Also fairly easy to get, and can help on Tarantula. Worth it for that alone.
Flash: No. Obviously I don't need another healer...I need the enemies dead.
Gusto: Possibly. Depending on how useful he is for that boss.
Sully: Same as Gusto...need to guage usefulness.
Zeppy/Darbi: Both are out of the way IIRC, and by that point not worth it.

Ideally I'd be ditching each one when their usefulness runs its course (if they have any to begin with).
Battle Is My Forte
Blade is good against the Tarantula and 1 of the clown, and the flower boss.
Howerver, i seem to remember that Blaze runs away a lot.

Are you getting the Fire Dagger from Camu's Tower? It would help a lot against the Tarantula.

Idura shouldnt be a trouble if you dont sell(or feed) the Aqua/Ice weapons.

Which special chest equips are you gonna get and which to skip? Like Jet helm etc.

If you dont have the world map anymore, download and print it from
Since that way you know for sure that you arent taking the long way to a certain place.

some special rings are good to have. Undead ring protects you against instant death spells if memory serves me right. There were quite a few rings that protect against status ailment.
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
Yes, there is the fact that Blaze is a total wuss. Besides the fact that it's probably better anyway, it's better to do things such as skipping all capsule monsters in a test run and skipping chests, because it's easier to add elements to a minimal run later than it is to trim down.

I think Insect Crush + Fire Dagger would be enough vs Tarantula and you wouldn't need Blaze. About those, conventional wisdom is you want them both. I can't say 100% since TASvideos is down atm, but I think the TAS gets both of them, but quietkane expressed doubts about it, and I think is leaning towards "no" for future runs.

Then again, a speedrun would require them more, so gotta test. I'm more in favor of this than any capsule monsters really.

Which special chest equips are you gonna get and which to skip? Like Jet helm etc.

In general, there shouldn't be all that much that you want. I think most of the time that could be saved from your test run is in generally doing a lot less. Like for example, when you said you bought all new weapons/armor at most towns, that surprised me.

some special rings are good to have. Undead ring protects you against instant death spells if memory serves me right. There were quite a few rings that protect against status ailment.

In general, if it doesn't increase damage output, skip it. This isn't a SS you know. If you get unlucky status ailments, you can always reset. Actually, this game is a lot nicer than its predecessor. I remember they totally nerfed instant death for example and it's terrible in this game.

Final thing: Iron Knuckle's FAQ is definitely the best at gamefaqs.
Battle Is My Forte
Final thing: Iron Knuckle's FAQ is definitely the best at gamefaqs.

Direct linking to gamefaqs faqs doesnt work Wink

I remember when I used the insect crush on the Tarantula, it did little damage. So it might be best to buy a good weapon in Tanbel or Clamento.

Kukri weapons in Tanbel is a must, since their electric IP is camu's weakness.
Fucking Weeaboo

Direct linking to gamefaqs faqs doesnt work Wink

Let me inform you of the little friend named "RIGHT CLICK".
Edit history:
Dragondarch: 2006-06-25 05:03:29 pm
Well, it looks like the recording of M&L will be delayed yet unreliable DVD Recorder continues to eat my runs at a rate of about 1/3 or so, randomly. With it in this unreliable state, I'm not going to risk having an awesome M&L segment be devoured and have to redo it until the DVD Recorder cooperates.

/middle finger

I think I may buy one with a hard drive now...Glad I have the $$$ to get one...
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
Well, I went back and watched the TAS WIP again (keep in mind, only gets as far as the AC) so I could take notes for a console run. I'll try to summarize here but at least Dragondarch should still watch the WIP because what I say is no substitute. And I'm not even going to try to describe things like the Alunze block matching puzzle.

General notes:
- I think you should probably skip Strong and use potions instead. The TAS is skipping it, but you'll probably get Stronger for the AOE, but you could try Hi-Potions.
- Some equipment like Tia's Frock has healing to restore the whole group. Check for those.
- Look at bosses' element weaknesses in the FAQ, especially the "hard" element weakness, aka "good vs strong enemies."
- The WIP picks up a lot of chests that won't be picked up in the real version, or even in a console run I think. Besides Insect Crush and Fire Dagger, which I'll get to later, these include Horse Rock, Witch Ring, Jute Helmet, Camu Armor, Pearl Brace, Aqua Whip, Fury Helmet, Mind Ring.
- This game has the FF5 overworld effect, although since encounters are lower and there's less distance to walk and running away is faster, it's less important but still useful. Basically when you bring up the menu, it resets the
step counter. So the best policy is just to walk as far as it feels like you're about to get into a fight, quickly bring up and close the menu, and continue. You can kinda predict this. For example, to get to the Cave to Sundletan, you'll probably want to bring up the menu exactly once in the middle.
- Buy Escapes and Warps until you get the spells, and use them correctly. You can buy them from the beginning, but can't really afford them yet. One slightly tricky use of Escapes is if a dungeon branches off near the beginning and one side leads all the way down to the key, and the other side has the locked door, then an Escape would be useful after getting the key.

Now for some specific stuff, in order:
- In the Cave to Sundletan, after hitting the switch to make the bridge, you can just jump down using the arrows. This is possible to miss because for example the FAQ does. In general, pay close attention to the arrows.
- Possibly get Escape in Cave to Sundletan, if getting the Life Potion, but almost certainly not. (more on this later)
- The trigger for the Catfish is seeing the earthquake in Sundletan. Not really an issue since you need to go to the item shop for Boomerangs anyway.
- Make sure to get the Catfish Jewel as it's a beast and only costs 20/255 IP.
- Lake Cave B3 has a solution that is slightly faster than what I think most people do. Here is a screenshot on how to start it, and working clockwise. In general, it's worth watching the WIP to get the optimal solutions for puzzles and enemies, most of which are predictable. For example, look at this screenshot. The bushes show how you get in; they will have grown back on the way out. But from this position getting out, you want to walk DRDL, shoot. And then work your way from there, using the R button to turn. You only have to shoot him twice.
- Get the Escape in Alunze Basement, then use it to get out.
- IF getting Fire Dagger and friends, do so before meeting Guy. I think Fire Dagger should be skipped if possible (because it takes forever and a half), more on this later.
- Buy 2 Kukri, and Flash if you can, for fighting Camu.
- Get Undead Ring in Treasure Sword Shrine, not because of death prot or anything else, but because it makes all your attacks light element, which is good vs Gades and other guys.
- Get Cold Rapier and probably Anger Brace for the IP. I also have a soft spot for the old "Anger Braces" heh.
- FYI, Daniele is weak against fire AND thunder. Pierre is weak against ice and water.
- Merix is the only town to buy Trick if you want it... I recommend this. The TAS gets Fireball for 4x Mummy and 3x Troll, and because you don't get Bolt along with the other level 2 spells in Aleyn. I would tend to agree if you can afford it.
- Thunder Ring in North Tower is the earliest element magic pumping ring, and the best because thunder spells have better base dmg. And you only need one ring and stick to that element.
- The TAS then goes on a spending spree buying equipment in Bound Kingdom. Dunno what you want to do but Gades and later Idura are the toughest parts of the game.
- The TAS gets Fire Ring, which is good if you have Fireball until you get Bolt, and vs Rogue Flower later.
- Idura is weak against ice and hard. IIRC there's some kind of hard element IP around this time, forget what exactly.

Direct linking to gamefaqs faqs doesnt work Wink

Really? What kind of crap browser do you use? Tongue It seems to work just like any other link to me.

Another FAQ that's probably worth reading through is the Odds and Ends FAQ. Sorry about the hotlinking, but this thread is like a bookmark page to me, heh.

I went through the beginning of the game again (aka until getting Tia), and I'm almost completely sure what to do. I'll make a separate post for that, but like I said, I think the v1 test run should try to pick up the complete bare minimum, erring on the "not enough" side. Then you can find out something like "no Insect Crush, no Fire Dagger, no Blaze" means no chance against Tarantula without leveling, and try again with say the Fire Dagger/Camu Armor/Pearl Brace maybe. You don't need to restart or anything, because the goal is more to find out what is possible in the v1 test run than to get an accurate time.
Edit history:
Enhasa: 2006-07-03 05:42:01 am
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
Stuff about Insect Crush, level 4 vs 5, and other pickups at the bottom.

- Immediately go back to Tia and buy 6 Boomerangs with all your money.
- In the practice cave, skip the skippable fight of course, push the pillar on the switch without stepping on it first, use Boomerang on every fight except 1 Red Jelly or 1 Lizard.
- Get absolutely nothing in the Cave to Sundletan. You don't need to talk to the guy in that first room either btw. Do make sure to jump down after hitting the bridge switch. Do NOT heal before the Lizard Man (the fight will go Boomerang, his attack, Boomerang), no need to save either. Theoretically, you don't really need to heal afterwards, since you'll need to potion up before Big Catfish anyway and you shouldn't be taking any hits.
- Buy 7 Boomerangs (up to 10-11) in Sundletan.
- Don't get anything in the Lake Cave either. DO level to 5, which should take 2 or maybe 3 unnecessary fights. One of these should definitely be the Eagle(s) when you're going back to the room next to the save point, so that you can use the arrow coming back from getting the key. Also that fight will give you 30 or 60 EXP. So actually, if you fight the Eagle when you first drop down from the upper level, and again when you drop down from the arrow, you will level to 5 unless you get rather unlucky and get the 1 Eagle combination both times. Drop down through the floor, save, then reload a lot against the Eagle fight until an Eagle Rock is dropped.
- SAVE at the save point before Big Catfish, since he's tough and you NEED the Catfish Jewel. Saving is ultra quick in this game, but that's the only one you need so far, since the first boss is a wuss. Although, since it's so quick, there's no shame in using every save point you see.
- Against Big Catfish, you're fine unless he uses Flash. Assume he doesn't. 4 Boomerangs kill him, so if you're almost dead but one more Boomerang kills him, go for the jugular. This fight is not too difficult at level 5 because you're faster than he is. You'll probably just need to use 1 Potion because of Mega Quake.
- Remember to save Tia for great justice. When you're done, you'll have 2-3 Boomerangs left.

Whee, 11-12 minutes.

I tried level 4 vs Big Catfish. It is a tremendously bad idea, even if you didn't need to reset for Catfish Jewel drop. I was using save states and couldn't even win, though it should be possible. I even tried picking up the Hide Armor and Life Potion in the Cave to Sundletan, and it still didn't help. The problem is at level 4, he typically goes before you, except you typically can go before his Mega Quake. This is quite a problem and a lot of guesswork is involved. At level 5, you go first, which is the key in these duel type of fights.

I decided Insect Crush is rather a bad idea since you'll want Kukri already for Camu, and Catfish Jewel makes Insect Crush obsolete early on. The only thing is, the fights you need for it line up well with getting to level 5. STILL, I don't think the time it takes to pick it up and equip is worth it, and 2 eagle fights is faster than the 3-4 fights it would take you that way.

Like I said earlier, skipping Fire Dagger would be ideal if possible, and it's not even essential during the clown fights because Thunder Blast from the Kukri works just as well.
Edit history:
Dragondarch: 2006-07-19 05:25:59 pm
Well, good news, I'll be getting a new DVD Recorder tomorrow, so that takes care of that problem.

As for the info Enhasa: I'll take note of all of it, and check out the TAS at some point. I'd also like to mention that Eagles drop Eagle Rocks...which might be worth getting. +15 AGL might make Lvl 4 against Catfish possible.

Also, my first "test run" will be a normal playthrough while cataloging items and enemies in all areas.

UPDATE: AoS runs are now all complete, and M&L will start being recorded tomorrow.

UPDATE 2: New DVD Recorder I bought needs to be returned on account of the front panel buttons don't work, period. This wouldn't have been a problem if I had any other way to open the disc tray...

UPDATE 3: Returned the DVD Recorder and got a brand spankin' new one that works correctly. No more delays!

M&L Progress (For those who care):
Before Coin Collecting in Stardust Fields: 0:12 (2 Minutes Ahead)
Before Tolstar: 0:19 (1 Minute Ahead)
Before Hoohooros: 0:26 (1 Minute Ahead)
Before Dragohoho: 0:30 (3 Minutes Ahead)
Before Queen Bean: 0:41 (4 Minutes Ahead)
Before Popple/Rookie 1: 0:47 (8 Minutes Ahead)
Before Wiggler: 0:55 (7 Minutes Ahead)
Before Chuckolator: 0:58 (10 Minutes Ahead)
Hoohoo Hooniversity Entrance: 1:06 (No Comparison Time)
Before Cackletta: 1:14 (23 Minutes Ahead)
Before Popple/Rookie 2: 1:18 (27 Minutes Ahead)
Before Mom Piranha: 1:33 (26 Minutes Ahead)
Before Teehee Valley: 1:39 (28 Minutes Ahead)
Before Trunkle: 1:42 (35 Minutes Ahead)
Gwarhar Lagoon Entrance: 2:06 (43 Minutes Ahead)
Before Hermie III: 2:15 (39 Minutes Ahead)
Before Splart: 2:22 (No Comparison Time - This Section is done in a different order)
After Splart: 2:25 (No Comparison Time - This Section is done in a different order)
Before Popple: 2:33 (No Comparison Time - This Section is done in a different order)
Joke's End Entrance: 2:41 (44 Minutes Ahead)
Before Jojora/Chucklissa: 2:48 (45 Minutes Ahead)
Before Popple/Birdo: 2:56 (48 Minutes Ahead)
Before Iggy: 3:02 (49 Minutes Ahead)
Before Lemmy: 3:06 (51 Minutes Ahead)
Before Ludwig: 3:08 (52 Minutes Ahead)
Before Roy: 3:12 (52 Minutes Ahead)
Before Larry: 3:18 (54 Minutes Ahead)
FINAL SAVE: 3:22 (55 Minutes Ahead, 25 Minutes Ahead of Japanese Final Save)
Clear Time: 3:26 (1 HOUR Ahead!)

1 - Wasn't going to save before coin collecting, but Mario got a +3 POW Bonus on the Koopa Cruiser...which never happens and I didn't want to lose it.
2 - I didn't actually lose a minute coin collecting...I actually saved slightly earlier than I did last time. Luigi also got a +3 POW Bonus.
3 - Didn't really lose any time on Hoohoo Mountain. Mario got a +3 POW from Tolstar, and Luigi got +2.
4 - Had to take +2 POW from Hoohooros for both Mario and Luigi. +3s here seemed almost impossible to get while getting at least a +2 for the other Bro.
5 - There was a second or 3 lost on this segment from stupid stuff, but getting +2 POW for Mario AND +3 POW for Luigi from Dragohoho is damn difficult as it stands.
6 - All the +POW Bonuses I had been luck manipulating were for the Queen Bean fight. Last time I spent 15 rounds on this fight - this time I only spent 8 rounds.
7 - No, I did not lose a minute here. I saved after getting the White Chuckola Fruit, instead of getting it after Wiggler. The only time I lost here was having to wait a few seconds for the spiny thing in front of the pipe to move out of my way.
8 - This was the first time I was willing to take +1 POW Bonuses...but that's only because Wiggler is such a bitch.
9 - At this point it's no longer necessary to worry about what I get for Level Bonuses. Chuckolator was being a bitch for a while and kept doing that unavoidable move on Mario.
10 - I remember why I hated Hoohoo Hooniversity so much. I made this one long segment, instead of 3 like last time. Those Viruses are evil I tell you...EVIL!
11 - Somehow, I got the exact Cackletta fight I wanted on the first try! She only split once, and I guessed right with Chopper Bros. so I didn't lose any time. I think I may have been able to shave a couple more seconds in the basement with some better maneuvering, but not many.
12 - Again, no minute actually lost...I saved before opening the door instead of after. The only mishaps here were a slight delay in character switching in the Seabed, and 3 double pounds when collecting Chuckle Beans at the Airport.
13 - Found that killing the Baby Piranhas and then luck manipulating Mom Piranha into not reviving them is the fastest method.
14 - I had originally thought I would have to do 5 fights here, but after some speculation I reduced that to 3. Then I compared fights times vs. Peach rescue times. Peach rescue times were only 8 seconds slower if the Goomba was by the pipe. Then I only had 1 fight to think about. I scrapped all that, however, and found a way to manipulate Peach past EVERY SINGLE GOOMBA without her getting captured!
15 - This segment had a few mistakes in it, but nothing too costly. The worst ones were in the Seabed...I accidentally switched rooms in the one after the one filled with Bloobers, and then Mario just couldn't seem to get in the hole in the one after that. I also managed a perfect Guffawha Ruins, but the Barrel Mini-game kinda sucked.
16 - No, I didn't lose 4 minutes here...I saved before the Hand Bros. tutorial this time. This place went pretty much as well as it could have. Note: I fucking hate Tutorials!
17 - Hermie III went down in 2 rounds, instead of 3 like I had originally planned. Scoring all 10 hits with Chopper Bros. is extremely difficult and I honestly didn't expect to pull it off both times. The only mishap here was a mistimed jump in Southwest Beanbean.
18 - Once again, Splart gets it's own segment. I still hate Splart. I find it funny that Harhall spends about twice as much time explaining Splart that I do actually performing it.
19 - Actually wound up doing LESS damage to the Piranha Bean than my last run (although it took the same number of rounds). My POW was 83 (vs. 101 last time), but the Mush Badge was making up 14 of my damage (which would have been a paltry 12 without any Mushrooms). I would have needed more luck with level bonuses to get any more rounds off this fight (+4 more POW should have been enough to knock one more round off...I should also note that I was 5 levels down from last time as well)
20 - This segment took MUCH longer than it should have...Popple has one attack that's nothing but a time waster, that Tanoomba in front of Yoshi Theater is a bitch, and if I ever see another Lakitu I'm gonna stick a telephone pole up it's ass!
21 - All I'm going to say is that Joke's End is a nightmare to pull off completely in one go (although it took me less time to get this segment right than it did the last one...)
22 - This was an easy segment, actually. Re-equipped the Work Pants/Work Jeans so I wouldn't have to waste a turn attacking Jojora, and Chucklissa dropped in 3 rounds. Also grabbed a couple items on the Koopa Cruiser.
23 - I didn't see a single mistake in this one. I had originally planned to have this one run all the way to Lemmy, but Morton's pre-rooms were giving me shit.
24 - Both fights went exactly as planned...I intentionally did less damage with Mario on the first round of both Iggy and Morton to make sure Luigi would get 2 turns (in case Mario went first the 2nd round). Mario also finally learned Chopper Bros. Advance during the Morton fight.
25 - For such a short segment, this one gave me a friggin' migraine! Lemmy's "Find the Real Lemmy" minigame is rigged so I always lose the first round (always appears one counter-clockwise from the one I hit). The second round also most certainly isn't a 25% chance to get it right either. The reason I didn't do more in the segment was due to the fact that I had Lemmy to deal with, and that damned Power Conduit thing as well.
26 - I would have extended this segment if it weren't for the "Boo Barrel" room shortly after Roy. Nothing major in terms of mistakes here except a couple of hang ups on walls.
27 - This segment had it's share of seconds lost, but most were only one per loss. This is one of the most annoying segments due to to frequency you need to switch who's in the lead and which abilities need to be active.
28 - This segment was a bitch. I needed Luigi to get 3 Knockback Bros. off on both Larry and Fawful, which meant he had to go first on the 3rd round in both fights. Larry decided to play ping pong for his 2 attacks, which ate a little time compared to him spinning (which seems to be his least likely move). Fawful only got the Orb Spinning counter - I missed the first orb but it only cost me like 1 second so no biggie.
29 - God, this segment took me longer than all others. There were just so many things that could go wrong. Unfortunately I don't have enough room in this post to list all the shit that caused me headaches, so I'll have to save it for the actual commentary.
Edit history:
Son_of_Dad: 2006-06-29 09:15:15 am
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Hello Enhasa, Dragonarch and Mr Nice guy.

I've been following your progress on Lufia 1 and have been following SDA for ages. Well, now Lufia 2 begins and i want to help in any way possible. I've finished the game countless times etc.

Ok, i've got the PAL ver on SNES but i'll be testing on ZSNES. I did a trial run from start to rescuing Tia and Saving. It took 20 mins (some loading) and i managed to get a catfish jewel.

A few questions:
How are the segments going to be organised? Small segments like the 20 mins^ or more sustained up to camu?

Is it wise to waste a couple seconds to get items on route to help, like the hide armour you mentioned...if it will lessen the damage from the catfish.

Anyways, i'll be around and checking your progress because this run is going to be great Smiley

PS: 11 mins!  Tongue
Edit history:
Enhasa: 2006-07-03 05:41:14 am
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
I'd also like to mention that Eagles drop Eagle Rocks...which might be worth getting. +15 AGL might make Lvl 4 against Catfish possible.

Actually, I knew this but I dismissed it because I figured it wouldn't be worth it since it's only one less battle and there's no way you're getting that and then Catfish Jewel. I forgot at the time that there's a save point with an eagle fight right outside, so the best idea is to drop down, save, and then reload a lot against that eagle until a rock is dropped, then save again. That's gonna be such a short segment, lol. (Or you could just do the next bit until your pre-Catfish save actually.)

How are the segments going to be organised? Small segments like the 20 mins^ or more sustained up to camu?

I imagine there will be a lot of segments since saving is pretty damn quick and you can save a lot of time this way.

Is it wise to waste a couple seconds to get items on route to help, like the hide armour you mentioned...if it will lessen the damage from the catfish.

In general, no, because all that time adds up and if you can win the fight, it doesn't matter. HP is a resource that you can spend to be faster; as long as it is above 0, it's all the same. Weapons that help you win faster than the time it takes to get them are the exception of course. In particular, lessening damage is not the goal against the Catfish, but being faster than him.

PS: 11 mins!  Tongue

Is that the time you got? If so, good job!
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Yeah...but i didn't get insect crush nor did i use escape

What's the next segment up to?  Smiley
everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music
Well actually, I don't think you should get either the Insect Crush or any of the Escapes so far, so you're right on track.

If you're talking to me, I haven't had any time yet to work on this more. I did the first part back in the Lufia 1 thread, and I figure I can wait until Dragondarch has done more here.

Actually, would you mind posting your ZST or SRM or whatever you have? That'd be easier than me going back and redoing the first part just to get Catfish Jewel. Although, if you didn't pick up the Eagle Rock, you'd probably need to redo that as well.
I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

No Eagle Rock...i'll redo it. Maybe i can get 10 min Smiley
Well, M&L is finished (see 1st post on this page for mini-commentary) with a clear time of 3:26.

Now to (finally) start work on Lufia II. Should be a nice change from M&L at least  Tongue
Never give up!
Nothing to say on Lufia 2 at this point, but I do have something to mention regarding M&L:

Clear Time: 3:26 (1 HOUR Ahead!)

SnapDragon's improvement to Prince of Persia: Warrior Within a while back is going to seem dull in comparison to the bolded part of the above quote.

I concede to you, Dragondarch - you can definitely rip through M&L better than I ever could.
i was like OMG yay it done!!
but then realised.. wth, mario & luigi.....
had my adrealine rush up... -_____________-
pls use it in seperate topic ;D!!
Easy there.  It's going to take a bit of planning to get this run done.