Dust: An Elysian Tail (Studying the game)

2013-06-07 09:42:01 pm

Broken glitch courtesy of Andreyj857.

Ridiculous teleports makes the run really quick, little less than 44 minutes off my pb. Could squeeze a bit more efficiency out of it but I'm tired today.

You can completely skip the forest though the flesh sheath makes a huge difference on Tethys, as well as unlocking the +220 attack weapon aug for the shop at the end of the run which makes a large difference as well.

This does use mode changes since you'll be severely under level so you can pump as much attack as possible, especially off of kane.

Vulajin

Edit history:

Vulajin: 2013-06-07 10:22:44 pm

2013-06-07 10:22:21 pm

Okay, that's awesome. I'm looking forward to giving it a try myself, and seeing how it can be incorporated into 117%.

Is this only possible on PC, since it seems to involve using the mouse for map scrolling?

CamTSB

2013-06-07 10:23:43 pm

Kanzen shouryuu cha!

NOW THIS IS WHAT I LIKE TO SEE.

Completely broken now, we in there.

Looks like PC is the only way to go now, awesome!

Vulajin

2013-06-07 10:24:18 pm

I would think this would have to make PC a separate category, assuming the glitch is literally not possible on Xbox.

ogam

Edit history:

ogam: 2013-06-07 10:27:20 pm

ogam: 2013-06-07 10:25:51 pm

ogam: 2013-06-07 10:25:11 pm

2013-06-07 10:24:57 pm

Not sure but if you can plug a mouse to your xbox should work. Though I don't have the console to test. Reminds me of wrong warp for ooT since you can actually get stuck OOBs on some areas and won't be able to get back unless you reload, sometimes crash or even send you back to a previous save or closest location

CamTSB

2013-06-07 10:30:44 pm

Kanzen shouryuu cha!

Later today after I'm home from work I'll see if this can be reproduced somehow on console. I don't think a mouse would be usable, and I don't think it'll even be possible at all, but we'll see.

Vulajin

2013-06-08 05:54:09 am

Did a basically blind run with the glitch (having only watched Ogam's video), got a 51:31. Did a little bit of rerouting afterwards for 117%, and it definitely helps reduce a lot of backtracking - not the major backtracking, like having to make second trips to certain zones, but the little things, like having to hit the same room twice. I was able to do a test run in around 3:25.

New thing I discovered during experimentation tonight: when you select a zone to enter, it defaults to one of that zone's various entrances, or you can pick one. You then manipulate the map to point at a different square entirely. The side of the screen on which you would have entered the previously-selected entrance ends up being the side you enter from in the room you warp to.

So, for example, if you select Sorrowing Meadows, and it starts on the left entrance, and you choose the quest hub room - you will enter from the left. On the other hand, if you switch to the right ("back") entrance, and then choose the quest hub room - you will enter from the right. This allows a little bit more precise map warping for certain mansions.

Completely unrelated glitch I discovered tonight: if you are standing on top of a vendor, and reload a save file, and then immediately press Up right after the save loads, you will enter the vendor dialog, even though there is no vendor present (since you're standing on a save point). I stumbled upon this because I was reloading repeatedly trying different possible map warps.

Did a basically blind run with the glitch (having only watched Ogam's video), got a 51:31. Did a little bit of rerouting afterwards for 117%, and it definitely helps reduce a lot of backtracking - not the major backtracking, like having to make second trips to certain zones, but the little things, like having to hit the same room twice. I was able to do a test run in around 3:25.

New thing I discovered during experimentation tonight: when you select a zone to enter, it defaults to one of that zone's various entrances, or you can pick one. You then manipulate the map to point at a different square entirely. The side of the screen on which you would have entered the previously-selected entrance ends up being the side you enter from in the room you warp to.

So, for example, if you select Sorrowing Meadows, and it starts on the left entrance, and you choose the quest hub room - you will enter from the left. On the other hand, if you switch to the right ("back") entrance, and then choose the quest hub room - you will enter from the right. This allows a little bit more precise map warping for certain mansions.

Completely unrelated glitch I discovered tonight: if you are standing on top of a vendor, and reload a save file, and then immediately press Up right after the save loads, you will enter the vendor dialog, even though there is no vendor present (since you're standing on a save point). I stumbled upon this because I was reloading repeatedly trying different possible map warps.

MilsTailsPrower

Edit history:

MilsTailsPrower: 2013-06-08 07:09:11 am

2013-06-08 07:05:36 am

I don't know if it is known already ... But i found a way to skip some bosses of the game on console like by example the 2 first Giants , Fuse , the boss before the Double Jump Powerup ( That one is probably slower , but cool anyways! )
I will make a video today , i hope it is not known already lol

CamTSB

Edit history:

CamTSB: 2013-06-08 11:53:53 am

2013-06-08 11:47:26 am

Kanzen shouryuu cha!

Okay, just finished testing on 360, and no, the map glitch does NOT work. I'll link my highlight in another post or in an edit once I've gotten it highlighted.

Edit: http://www.twitch.tv/camtsb/c/2395948 There's the highlight.

Quote from Vulajin:

Completely unrelated glitch I discovered tonight: if you are standing on top of a vendor, and reload a save file, and then immediately press Up right after the save loads, you will enter the vendor dialog, even though there is no vendor present (since you're standing on a save point). I stumbled upon this because I was reloading repeatedly trying different possible map warps.

Does it go to the trade screen, or does it only do the dialogue and then leave you sitting where you were?

MilsTailsPrower

2013-06-08 12:20:02 pm

Vulajin

2013-06-08 01:20:56 pm

Quote from CamTSB:

Does it go to the trade screen, or does it only do the dialogue and then leave you sitting where you were?

It does go to the trade screen, and you can buy stuff normally. However, it doesn't do anything glitchy like using your inventory from the previous save, or letting you buy things without paying, or letting you keep items from the previous save. I only played with it for about 10 minutes, so feel free to mess around and see if you can find anything else about it.

Quote from MilsTailsPrower:

I don't know if it is known already ... But i found a way to skip some bosses of the game on console like by example the 2 first Giants , Fuse , the boss before the Double Jump Powerup ( That one is probably slower , but cool anyways! )
I will make a video today , i hope it is not known already lol

Nice! These could be really useful on an Xbox run. For the PC run, the Fuse skip is obsoleted by just map warping to the end of Abadis, and the giant skip is probably not okay because you really, really need that XP. The two Blackmoor skips are also irrelevant for PC but nice for Xbox.

[quote="CamTSB"]Does it go to the trade screen, or does it only do the dialogue and then leave you sitting where you were?[/quote]

It does go to the trade screen, and you can buy stuff normally. However, it doesn't do anything glitchy like using your inventory from the previous save, or letting you buy things without paying, or letting you keep items from the previous save. I only played with it for about 10 minutes, so feel free to mess around and see if you can find anything else about it.

[quote="MilsTailsPrower"]I don't know if it is known already ... But i found a way to skip some bosses of the game on console like by example the 2 first Giants , Fuse , the boss before the Double Jump Powerup ( That one is probably slower , but cool anyways! )
I will make a video today , i hope it is not known already lol[/quote]

Nice! These could be really useful on an Xbox run. For the PC run, the Fuse skip is obsoleted by just map warping to the end of Abadis, and the giant skip is probably not okay because you really, really need that XP. The two Blackmoor skips are also irrelevant for PC but nice for Xbox.

ogam

Edit history:

ogam: 2013-06-08 01:47:06 pm

2013-06-08 01:29:05 pm

I did a run earlier today after tails noted about the giants. It can be skipped freely since you don't really need the exp

Since monsters scale with the zone, you'll get it back when killing random hornets along the way or a zombie pack even.

Noticed you can warp straight to flesh sheath, you'll just have to dust storm back to the room. As long as you have an extra key it should be fine and save time from backtracking 2 rooms. You'll still have to do go through the vertical puzzle though.

Vulajin

2013-06-08 02:09:14 pm

@Cam: I watched your highlight. Regarding categories, I was thinking that perhaps the best way to split is "map warp" vs. "no map warp". Xbox runs would necessarily go under the no map warp category, while PC runs could choose to do either one. After all, there's no specific reason that you should be required to do the map warp on PC, and it's not the kind of glitch you would "accidentally" do during normal play without trying.

That would leave the current best times at 31:11 for map warp, and 1:18:10 for no map warp, both by Ogam on PC.

ogam

Edit history:

ogam: 2013-06-08 06:59:21 pm

2013-06-08 06:58:56 pm

Have you ever wanted to go out with Gaius but he kept rejecting you and knocking you down? (Parry spam..)
Well here's one way to ease the rejection.

Skip straight to phase 4 of Gaius.

Vulajin

2013-06-08 08:37:47 pm

YES

I was trying to do that so many different ways last night, and you just accomplished it. You are a goddamn champion.

CamTSB

2013-06-08 08:48:51 pm

Kanzen shouryuu cha!

Ogam, you are my hero. I still haven't been free enough to test out map warping in general, but I think this is going to make things way more fun.

Vulajin

Edit history:

Vulajin: 2013-06-09 01:49:34 pm

2013-06-09 03:14:23 am

I was able to get a run of 25:57. I really like how this category has evolved. My thoughts on the next direction are:

1) Have we looked for ways to skip fighting Lady Tethys? Maybe there's a way to skip the encounter trigger in her room, but somehow cause the game to still think you defeated her?
2) Can we skip the Sorrowing Meadow entirely by bypassing the gate at the front? And if so, would we even have enough attack to kill Gaius?
2b) If not, are there any possible optimizations to the Sorrowing Meadows route? This is where the majority of the gameplay is, so this is probably where any optimizations will need to be made.

(edit) Here's the recording of my best attempt, for reference: http://www.twitch.tv/vulajin/c/2399512

CamTSB

2013-06-09 11:39:59 am

Kanzen shouryuu cha!

1) We can look into it, since it'd be a great time saver.
2) If we can find a way to bypass the gate yeah, of course we can skip it. I think it just would require it being on the same map area, which... I think it is? The area just past the gate I mean, before you hit mountains.

I finally just got a chance to try the map warp, and I can already tell how wide openly broken this game is now. This is going to be way too fun.

Vulajin

2013-06-10 03:15:13 am

I did a bunch of runs tonight and managed a sub-25 time (24:54). Video: http://www.twitch.tv/vulajin/c/2404501

Something new I found: when you warp to the area at the bottom of Aurora Village to go to Cirromon Caverns, there's one monster down there floating around. Normally you can just ignore him and roll to the right - but instead, draw him towards the edge, and kill him, then immediately roll out the exit. When you enter Cirromon, you should immediately level up, knocking you back into Aurora and skipping the lengthy zone intro. I didn't actually get this skip in the above run, but I did get it at least once tonight.

Also, the crawling segment lasts about 44.8 seconds. However, the time I gave above uses Ogam's current timing method of splitting when the explosion knocks Dust out after Gaius. My run is 25:39 in SDA timing.

ogam

Edit history:

ogam: 2013-06-10 05:53:17 pm

ogam: 2013-06-10 05:10:40 pm

ogam: 2013-06-10 04:40:18 pm

ogam: 2013-06-10 04:39:54 pm

ogam: 2013-06-10 04:39:11 pm

ogam: 2013-06-10 04:38:46 pm

ogam: 2013-06-10 04:37:02 pm

ogam: 2013-06-10 04:36:15 pm

2013-06-10 04:36:02 pm

Gaius - 23:46 and crawl - 24:31
The level up trick is a really good time saver since it's about 20+ seconds when entering the caverns.

Figured out a way to skip the Mudpot cut scene, just move towards then immediately move back from the edge of the screen. (It's at 11:50 if you want a reference.)
I'm not sure if it'll work for The Glade or Aurora Village but you can try, I know on occasion you can skip Aurora Village from dodge canceling as long as you land right at the edge of the screen. Though Aurora Village skip seems more luck base.

Alternate Room Glitch -
-Warp to a <-] or [-> on any map, the location displayed should be called 'The Glade'. Then run over an auto save in the same room you came back to.
-Go to any map in the world, then load up your auto save, the location should be 'The Glade'.
-When you go to any new room your auto save should be updated to the current room with the location still being 'The Glade', even if you're in say Abadis Forest r2,3. (Don't go here you'll probably crash.)
-After reloading you'll be in the same room but the zone will be 'The Glade', all chests/keys/rock wall/bomb walls will despawn, also you'll be warped to a fixed location. Some fixed locations can be OOBs and you can traverse the rest of the zone OOBs in some cases.

Pros:
Explore the hidden content
Get around areas of nuisance

Cons:
Any Items obtained then reloaded even after going to another area after auto save updates will cause you to lose that item. So if you grabbed a quest item for kane, you'll have to redo that quest item if you reload to it.
All Chests and Keys will despawn if you reload the room.
Trying to reload your auto save from a new client (aka crash/new session), this will cause your game to load you to a room one of the exits, [->, in the glades

Work Arounds:
If you grab an item that you like and want to keep it, just run over a real save point or manually save.

Though I do see this being plausible for 117% since you can to skip empty rooms, environmental annoyances (bomb walls/rock walls), or using OOBs to lower the amount of backtracking. Good luck with the extra level of overhead.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5fYFJT9USc

Gaius - 23:46 and crawl - 24:31
The level up trick is a really good time saver since it's about 20+ seconds when entering the caverns.

Figured out a way to skip the Mudpot cut scene, just move towards then immediately move back from the edge of the screen. (It's at 11:50 if you want a reference.)
I'm not sure if it'll work for The Glade or Aurora Village but you can try, I know on occasion you can skip Aurora Village from dodge canceling as long as you land right at the edge of the screen. Though Aurora Village skip seems more luck base.

Alternate Room Glitch -
-Warp to a <-] or [-> on any map, the location displayed should be called 'The Glade'. Then run over an auto save in the same room you came back to.
-Go to any map in the world, then load up your auto save, the location should be 'The Glade'.
-When you go to any new room your auto save should be updated to the current room with the location still being 'The Glade', even if you're in say Abadis Forest r2,3. (Don't go here you'll probably crash.)
-After reloading you'll be in the same room but the zone will be 'The Glade', all chests/keys/rock wall/bomb walls will despawn, also you'll be warped to a fixed location. Some fixed locations can be OOBs and you can traverse the rest of the zone OOBs in some cases.

Pros:
Explore the hidden content
Get around areas of nuisance

Cons:
Any Items obtained then reloaded even after going to another area after auto save updates will cause you to lose that item. So if you grabbed a quest item for kane, you'll have to redo that quest item if you reload to it.
All Chests and Keys will despawn if you reload the room.
Trying to reload your auto save from a new client (aka crash/new session), this will cause your game to load you to a room one of the exits, [->,  in the glades

Work Arounds:
If you grab an item that you like and want to keep it, just run over a real save point or manually save.

Though I do see this being plausible for 117% since you can to skip empty rooms, environmental annoyances (bomb walls/rock walls), or using OOBs to lower the amount of backtracking. Good luck with the extra level of overhead.

Vulajin

Edit history:

Vulajin: 2013-06-14 03:28:00 am

Vulajin: 2013-06-14 03:16:47 am

2013-06-14 03:16:34 am

http://www.twitch.tv/vulajin/c/2422671

Improved Ogam's time by 13 seconds, to 24:18. Might have gotten more, but I accidentally triggered the chest cutscene in the Glade, and accidentally tried to open that chest, and failed the wall grip cutscene skip, and had to kill the blob on that screen, and also failed the Mudpot cutscene skip. The run was powered primarily by a nearly flawless Sorrowing Meadows and a good (but not perfect) Gaius fight.

In a subsequent run, I had this fight with Gaius: http://www.twitch.tv/vulajin/c/2422688

I don't think I'll ever top that fight, but if I can get one in a solid run, that alone will propel the time below 24 minutes.

(edit) My sum of best splits is 23:26 or so. Let's go for 23!

Naglfar

2013-06-14 09:06:45 am

http://www.twitch.tv/naglfarnr/c/2423540

look, I did a run! 24:29 SDA timing. it starts on a bit of exasperation over a botched attempt at the flesh sheath, I hope you don't mind. I also hope my strats are helpful to some of you. just don't leave me too far behind. Sad

also: races? I would like some and I'm fine with them happening just about whenever, what do you all think?

ogam

Edit history:

ogam: 2013-06-14 02:35:37 pm

2013-06-14 02:23:52 pm

Nice 24:18, good run.
+1 to 11:51 boom.

I was thinking somewhere around 23:00 as well.

On a side note, Hardcore Any% is a lot more boring than I thought It would have been. Only point that's interesting is still the wall climb for flesh sheath since it has to be one shot. Also has NPC grinding, aka talk to everyone in mudpot on the way and go back to Aurora Village right before Gaius for more damage. For Gaius it was playing it really safe by doing delayed grabs only.
One thing that did not work is the level up cavern trick, since you have to talk to Fidget before bouncing backwards.

Regarding racing, that'll be fun. I know Astro_Night (www.twitch.tv/astro_night) is interested in doing races. I'm usually on SRL irc so send a message or page and we'll set one up.

Vulajin

Edit history:

Vulajin: 2013-06-14 02:51:41 pm

Vulajin: 2013-06-14 02:43:20 pm

2013-06-14 02:39:13 pm

Races sound great. I was thinking it would be cool to set up a weekly race, but I'm also fine just trying to find random times to do races.

Random note: yesterday on stream, I did a timed comparison of different movement methods. I found that just walking on the first screen is practically the same speed as doing jump slashes or anything like that (within half a second of difference). Naglfar's XXY-jump trick doesn't seem to save enough time to be worth the difficulty either.

Also, in case it wasn't obvious, roll-cancels are the fastest method of movement on flat ground. Aerial Dust Storm is about 50% slower.

Vulajin

Edit history:

Vulajin: 2013-06-15 03:54:53 am

2013-06-15 03:52:24 am

It keeps going down! 23:40 now: http://www.twitch.tv/vulajin/c/2427254

I've tightened up the Glade strats a lot. In the first room, it's as fast to just walk as it is to try anything else like jump slashes or whatever. In the room where you get the Aerial Dust Storm, you want to use it near the ground so that you can get the boost from having nearby mobs to home in on - but be careful not to fall down the path at the end without getting the key! In the room with the wall grip cutscene, you should kill the slime, because you need the XP to guarantee that the Cirromon intro skip works, and you have to spend time drawing him away from the zone boundary anyway. You still want to talk to Fale in Aurora Village for his XP as well.

Naglfar discovered a nice improvement to the early Flesh Sheath trick - when falling down from the room above, spam A like your life depends on it. The game thinks you're in the standing position, not falling, so it allows you to jump, returning you above to the room with the Flesh Sheath. When doing the climb, you want to Rising Dust Storm up to the second set of spikes, then ram into them from the left side, so that they knock you on top of the first set of spikes. From there, jump up+right and dodge right. You will now be on top of the second spikes. From here, use the Rising Dust Storm to continue upwards, avoiding all the remaining spikes. (This method is used in my video above.) I've timed this to be faster than a "perfect" climb (i.e. no spikes) by about 4 seconds.

On the way out of Mudpot after Lady Tethys, talk to FloHop (I think that's her name - the lady who wants the red moss) to get some quick XP. This will help guarantee Baron Kane gets you up to level 8. In Sorrowing Meadows, use Naglfar's trick again while falling when you're going to the bottom-right mansion.

Finally, Naglfar introduced one more nice trick: use Mudpot to set up the Gaius skip instead of Abadis Forest. To do this, enter the Mudpot entrance of Cirromon Caverns (the normal entrance, no map warp here). Use the Dust Storm + Fidget's projectiles to draw the imp there into the air. Then, jump and Aerial Dust Storm off him into the sky, and exit to the left at the top of the screen. Now go to Everdawn Basin and map warp to the last Gaius room as usual. When you enter, you will need to Rising Dust Storm immediately about 3-4 times to the right. Keep doing it until you are simply deposited into the room. I timed this as well, and it's about 4-5 seconds faster than the Abadis Forest setup. Even if you accidentally kill the imp without lifting him into the air, you can just zone out and in and it only costs you those 4-5 seconds.

It keeps going down! 23:40 now: http://www.twitch.tv/vulajin/c/2427254

I've tightened up the Glade strats a lot. In the first room, it's as fast to just walk as it is to try anything else like jump slashes or whatever. In the room where you get the Aerial Dust Storm, you want to use it near the ground so that you can get the boost from having nearby mobs to home in on - but be careful not to fall down the path at the end without getting the key! In the room with the wall grip cutscene, you should kill the slime, because you need the XP to guarantee that the Cirromon intro skip works, and you have to spend time drawing him away from the zone boundary anyway. You still want to talk to Fale in Aurora Village for his XP as well.

Naglfar discovered a nice improvement to the early Flesh Sheath trick - when falling down from the room above, spam A like your life depends on it. The game thinks you're in the standing position, not falling, so it allows you to jump, returning you above to the room with the Flesh Sheath. When doing the climb, you want to Rising Dust Storm up to the second set of spikes, then ram into them from the left side, so that they knock you on top of the first set of spikes. From there, jump up+right and dodge right. You will now be on top of the second spikes. From here, use the Rising Dust Storm to continue upwards, avoiding all the remaining spikes. (This method is used in my video above.) I've timed this to be faster than a "perfect" climb (i.e. no spikes) by about 4 seconds.

On the way out of Mudpot after Lady Tethys, talk to FloHop (I think that's her name - the lady who wants the red moss) to get some quick XP. This will help guarantee Baron Kane gets you up to level 8. In Sorrowing Meadows, use Naglfar's trick again while falling when you're going to the bottom-right mansion.

Finally, Naglfar introduced one more nice trick: use Mudpot to set up the Gaius skip instead of Abadis Forest. To do this, enter the Mudpot entrance of Cirromon Caverns (the normal entrance, no map warp here). Use the Dust Storm + Fidget's projectiles to draw the imp there into the air. Then, jump and Aerial Dust Storm off him into the sky, and exit to the left at the top of the screen. Now go to Everdawn Basin and map warp to the last Gaius room as usual. When you enter, you will need to Rising Dust Storm immediately about 3-4 times to the right. Keep doing it until you are simply deposited into the room. I timed this as well, and it's about 4-5 seconds faster than the Abadis Forest setup. Even if you accidentally kill the imp without lifting him into the air, you can just zone out and in and it only costs you those 4-5 seconds.