Dust: An Elysian Tail (Studying the game)

2014-01-06 04:48:24 pm

Thanks!

Got my time down to 1:23:45 today even with like 6-7 Minutes Lost @Gaius Cheesy

Damn that Fight is long without a) the ATK-Boost from getting that Difficulty-Switch @Kane - and b) The 1.5x ATK Soup - which apparently I could not purchase after not picking up the required food.
I guess you usually get that from the wedding ring chest and I didnt pay full attention :S

ogam

Edit history:

ogam: 2014-01-07 07:39:21 am

2014-01-07 06:23:39 am

Wow.... There is finally a use for glade warping... This lets you skip most of the crawling at the end of the game... I don't know how much it saves but it's a decent amount. Also found a poor man's setup for quick kill on Tethys since I can't get Tony's Tethys setup consistent D:. I'll make a highlight in a bit.

Tethys: http://www.twitch.tv/mrogam/c/3510028
Crawl Skip: http://www.twitch.tv/mrogam/c/3510049

Starting the timer from menu after being able to crawl came out to be 30-31 seconds. Flying up from the middle between the two lava flows is 14-15 seconds.

I was waching AGDQ for the most part so that caused the stream to have some stutter.

Findus

Edit history:

Findus: 2014-01-07 08:12:50 am

2014-01-07 08:08:16 am

Very cool! So you save around 15 sec with that minus the setup time?
Btw does this change the run category to NG+ ? Didn't really get into all the different categories yet.

PS: Regarding AGDQ it would be really awesome if Vulajin did a 117% run live Cheesy

But I don't know how they choose their Bonus runs... so probably not happening.

ogam

Edit history:

ogam: 2014-01-07 08:13:38 am

2014-01-07 08:12:47 am

This can be done in a NG run, as long as you setup a glade warp during the run. If you set it up before a NG run then I would consider it a NG+.

I posted some info in glade warping but here it is again http://pastebin.com/1rhSRynb.
Not sure if that's more understandable or confusing but after some tries it should be easier to understand.

Also a setup takes ~2.5s so you'll save 12-13s in the long run.

ogam

Edit history:

ogam: 2014-01-09 10:15:40 am

ogam: 2014-01-09 05:49:11 am

2014-01-09 05:15:38 am

So I noticed if you warped directly to the Flesh Sheathe normally you would be dropped to the room below, that's normal.

If you load up your glade warp you can save a teleport stone and be able to get up top directly, so in turn you can technically have 11 teleport stones through each Any% run. Really convenient as you can do all of Tony's warp optimizations without worrying about teleport stone cost. (Mainly the last one to Gaius if you use Abadis Forest Warp from monument)

One thing I do need to warn you about is if you glade warp during Gaius fight you will soft lock yourself as he can be damaged by the lava and get stuck below when he dies.

After doing a run or two this morning I noticed if you ~~load up your glade warp the second time while Dust is in the jumping animation~~ use a glade warp from Abadis forest Left Exit or Cirromon Caverns Left Exit (Thanks Naglfar), you will actually get boosted above the crawl platform and can just do a couple ADC to finish the game.. 25 seconds saved compared to 15. Well worth the effort to do now.

So I noticed if you warped directly to the Flesh Sheathe normally you would be dropped to the room below, that's normal.

If you load up your glade warp you can save a teleport stone and be able to get up top directly, so in turn you can technically have 11 teleport stones through each Any% run. Really convenient as you can do all of Tony's warp optimizations without worrying about teleport stone cost. (Mainly the last one to Gaius if you use Abadis Forest Warp from monument)

One thing I do need to warn you about is if you glade warp during Gaius fight you will soft lock yourself as he can be damaged by the lava and get stuck below when he dies.

After doing a run or two this morning I noticed if you [s]load up your glade warp the second time while Dust is in the jumping animation[/s] use a glade warp from Abadis forest Left Exit or Cirromon Caverns Left Exit (Thanks Naglfar), you will actually get boosted above the crawl platform and can just do a couple ADC to finish the game.. 25 seconds saved compared to 15. Well worth the effort to do now.

Findus

2014-01-09 11:41:18 am

Tbh I don't really understand the glade-warp so far. But looking forward to see it in a run anyway Smiley

I think I'll work it out from there.

Also I was wondering if it's possible (and allowed) to rebind your Gamepad buttons? I was thinking about making use of the unlimited fidgetspam that you theoretically have on casual. Could be a potential dmg-boost.

ogam

2014-01-09 12:45:39 pm

I don't think you can rebind your gamepad buttons if you use a xbox360 controller through the game, but if you use joy2key or xpadder I don't see a problem with it.

Glade Warp is confusing on it's own merit since it's just plain weird.

Findus

Edit history:

Findus: 2014-01-14 01:31:35 pm

2014-01-13 11:18:32 am

VULAJIN AGDQ ANY% RUN CONFIRMED! :D:D god I am happy now.

Scheduled to 2:20PM EST on Tuesday (14th)

Edit: So run just finished. Vulajin if you read this - It was a thing of beauty, you have my full respect Cheesy

Vulajin

2014-01-14 06:52:31 pm

Hopefully that run, despite being full of errors, helps show what Ogam intended with the Glade warp setup. You can use my same general approach, but do it less crappily, to do runs yourself.

ogam

2014-01-14 09:04:36 pm

Understanding a bit more about glade warping it can technically let us do the run with only picking up 4-5 keys from the start instead of 6 but due to load times it'll probably be slower compared to the 5 or 12 second loss throughout the run for a RTA. I don't have as much free time as last week for a while so won't be able to do much tests.

ogam

Edit history:

ogam: 2014-01-17 02:15:45 pm

ogam: 2014-01-17 02:00:36 pm

2014-01-17 01:12:36 pm

Not sure if it's faster but if you only do 1 shopping through the run and buy Plague Oil in Aurora Village after getting Flesh Sheathe + 5 stones, would this be faster than doing a 2 shopping throughout the run and deal with the long dialogue at the end?

Since Tethys and Kane aren't as trolly anymore not sure if it'll save time.

Also I had a fluke of some sorts and skipped Kane cutscene on Bottom Left last night. http://www.twitch.tv/mrogam/c/3564719

ogam

2014-01-19 05:16:33 pm

Vulajin noted yesterday he skipped the tutorial fight at the start of glade. So if there's a way to get consistent skips on cutscenes, it might be plausible to get the time even lower..

ogam

2014-01-29 06:35:41 pm

Playing with cutscenes more looks like sometimes a room isn't loaded properly and the triggers won't go off, so this will be a pain to figure out.

TheAngryPanda

2014-02-01 06:35:01 pm

Speed > Safety

Maybe try different angles of approach for the screen transition, events that alter positioning (level-ups are known to have interesting effects), or maybe even using an item/attacks at certain points leading into/out of the transition will yield results. I find it unlikely given other aspects of this game that a trigger simply won't go off. However, I've been out of the loop for a while, perhaps it's a result of another trick being performed?

Hope it gets figured out, I feel like this game is probably one of the more deserving titles of being broken into bits more than it already has and there's great people working on it. Smiley

Findus

2014-03-03 04:58:37 am

Since this mistake just keeps happening to me..
What food exactly do I need to unlock the Champong? (atk soup)
I seem to have forgotten and often end up not being able to purchase it at the end, which is pretty much a runkiller.

ogam

2014-03-03 01:40:35 pm

If I remember right you can get the attack food on the way from monsters. If you don't notice ever getting the buff icon above your head there's 1 chest I grab sometimes if I feel like I need more attack http://i.imgur.com/IkgLvex.jpg (from the wiki), there's also a chest at yellow resonance wall but not sure if that unlocks attack food for the shop.

ogam

Edit history:

ogam: 2014-04-07 02:25:29 pm

2014-04-06 04:00:03 pm

Not the best way to skip long tedious cutscenes but if position and rotated correctly with Normal, Hard or Hardcore then dust storming yourself to take damage for the first time. You can skip a cutscene. Just have to find a way to force fidget to talk whenever we want.

Doesn't Look like you can skip the bopo's dad dying scene. Also doesn't look like you use dust storm damage boost to knock yourself out of a map :\

Rabram

2014-04-15 03:15:48 am

Hy everyone,

I started to really get interested by speed running this game for 1-2 months and I finally managed to get a decent PB ... I'm always impressed by the execution of Tony on his WR Smiley

I hope one day we can make a race Any warpless% Smiley

btw here's my PB (1:07:55) : http://www.twitch.tv/rabram/c/4019298

PS: sorry for the music, but because I had no mic I wanted to put something other than the sound of the game Smiley

ogam

2014-04-16 05:08:03 am

Nice a warpless run, that's a good time Rabram Cheesy

Thinking about entering mudpot from the right side you can skip the Bopo / Mom scene by using a dialogue box... *Cough* Dust Storm *Cough* might save a miniscule amount of time.

It's too bad Bopo's dad's death scene and the mountain village cutscenes can't be skipped, otherwise the next zones won't be available Sad

Rabram

2014-04-16 09:42:41 am

thank you for the help Ogam I'll try it for my next run Wink

the thing is that I still have a big problem during my speedrun, for no reason my brain Juste turn off and forgets to remember me to make the skip Smiley

And just a question about the Everdawn Basin cutscenes by going back to Aurora Village and talk to Fale if Fale is near the stairs do we still save time?? Basically is that skip rule by rng??

ogam

2014-04-16 10:35:11 am

Just have to make sure you talk to fale or any npc at the edge of the room before going to zone selection screen. Next frame where you can control dust will have a dialogue box come up and that'll override any cutscene that's suppose to play.

Vulajin

2014-04-16 12:16:00 pm

As you guessed, Rabram, there is an RNG component to the Fale storage skips. If he's far away, you're screwed. If he's close, hurray! It does save time no matter what, it's just less time the more you have to move him.

Findus

2014-04-18 02:46:35 am

Hooray a new runner! And he does Warpless?! NICE.
I don't really have the time to grind the game myself, but it is good to see there's still people running it Smiley

mishli

Edit history:

mishli: 2014-04-18 03:13:54 am

2014-04-18 03:03:13 am

DNA MoL SoTM

Hey guys, nice to meet you all. Brand new to speed running and I wanted to make dust the first game I run. Still getting a few of the finer details down atm, but I'm confident I can get at least a decent PB soon. Can I ask what program you guys use to do your splits? I've but never heard the name.

Sorry to join in so late, but I do have some info which might still be useful for cutting some more corners.

Someone asked earlier how much height you lose/ gain for ADC vs RDS. It's a little iffy depending on how good your RDS is, but app the height of 1 jump = 2 ADC = 4-5 RDS.

Also, I don't know if this is a well known trick or not, but if you dodge while holding the stick in the same direction you're dodging, then press jump within a few frames (it's not that picky, just gotta do it pretty quick) dust will do a long jump in that direction. It seems to lose a bit of height sometimes, but it gets 2x his usual jump distance in about the same amount of time as a single jump. It's very fast at first, but he loses a lot of momentum at the end of it, though it still seems to be almost as fast as dodge cancelling, i can't measure it close enough to tell though. side note, dust can do this facing backwards, but I don't think it has any use/effect.

However, if you aerial dust storm shortly before the jump is half way, you keep your momentum and start zipping really fast with the dust storm. My early tests show this is faster than normal dodge cancelling.

I need to do more research, but dust seems to lose a bit of speed when he contacts an enemy in this state, however the initial speed boost will take him quite a distance and I still think it could be worth using.

just to clarify, this looks like (hold) ->, LT then A, to long jump, then press y quickly to get the dust storm boost.

It's possible to chain together long jumps, but if you air dodge you'll need to crouch slash to cancel the landing lag. It's also possible to long jump out of a slide for a little extra distance, but i'm not sure if it's worth it.

One other thing, I found a much easier way to guarantee you get the double zone (where you zone in one area, then immediately zone back) stand about the width of dust (or less) away from the zone line and tap forward + X (light attack) then immediately press the opposite direction. You can't normally interrupt the attack animation, but the zoning will, this lets you buffer the second direction input and he'll simply turn around upon entering the next area. The farther away from the zone line you stand, the more time you have, since all you have to do is press forward attack he'll step into the strike, which will make him walk into the zone, then all you have to do is hold back while he crosses it and you're set.

I hope to get into no oob (warpless) normal and 117% runs soon, once i get my graphics card fixed. Hope my info helps

Hope this lowly noob can help. Gl to everyone and congrats on the crazy good runs so far.

Hey guys, nice to meet you all. Brand new to speed running and I wanted to make dust the first game I run. Still getting a few of the finer details down atm, but I'm confident I can get at least a decent PB soon. Can I ask what program you guys use to do your splits? I've but never heard the name.

Sorry to join in so late, but I do have some info which might still be useful for cutting some more corners.

Someone asked earlier how much height you lose/ gain for ADC vs RDS. It's a little iffy depending on how good your RDS is, but app the height of 1 jump = 2 ADC = 4-5 RDS.

Also, I don't know if this is a well known trick or not, but if you dodge while holding the stick in the same direction you're dodging, then press jump within a few frames (it's not that picky, just gotta do it pretty quick) dust will do a long jump in that direction. It seems to lose a bit of height sometimes, but it gets 2x his usual jump distance in about the same amount of time as a single jump. It's very fast at first, but he loses a lot of momentum at the end of it, though it still seems to be almost as fast as dodge cancelling, i can't measure it close enough to tell though. side note, dust can do this facing backwards, but I don't think it has any use/effect.

However, if you aerial dust storm shortly before the jump is half way, you keep your momentum and start zipping really fast with the dust storm. My early tests show this is faster than normal dodge cancelling.

I need to do more research, but dust seems to lose a bit of speed when he contacts an enemy in this state, however the initial speed boost will take him quite a distance and I still think it could be worth using.

just to clarify, this looks like (hold) ->, LT then A, to long jump, then press y quickly to get the dust storm boost.

It's possible to chain together long jumps, but if you air dodge you'll need to crouch slash to cancel the landing lag. It's also possible to long jump out of a slide for a little extra distance, but i'm not sure if it's worth it.

One other thing, I found a much easier way to guarantee you get the double zone (where you zone in one area, then immediately zone back) stand about the width of dust (or less) away from the zone line and tap forward + X (light attack) then immediately press the opposite direction. You can't normally interrupt the attack animation, but the zoning will, this lets you buffer the second direction input and he'll simply turn around upon entering the next area. The farther away from the zone line you stand, the more time you have, since all you have to do is press forward attack he'll step into the strike, which will make him walk into the zone, then all you have to do is hold back while he crosses it and you're set.

I hope to get into no oob (warpless) normal and 117% runs soon, once i get my graphics card fixed. Hope my info helps

Hope this lowly noob can help. Gl to everyone and congrats on the crazy good runs so far.

Vulajin

2014-04-18 03:24:54 am

Welcome, Mishli! The main trick you're describing there is known and used in 117% warps runs, though I don't think we have a good name for it yet (I've been going with Flying Dust Storm, but that's me). The other info you provided is pretty useful too, I'll give that a shot next time I'm practicing the Mudpot cutscene skip.

Just as a note, "no oob" isn't an accurate designation for any category of Dust. Even in warpless, there is a room in Blackmoor Mountains where you can (and do) clip out of bounds to skip a scripted encounter.