Double Dragon II

2009-08-21 03:19:24 pm

Quote from sinister1:

Quote from DK28:

... But remember, the time has to be faster than your solo time. Wink

This might not be possible*
...
...
...
* We could conceivably beat my 12:01 but not my newer times (11:17). If we beat the 12:01 I will likely submit that here and just post my 11:17 on Youtube and send it to TG. The 2 player B run is very entertaining so it would definitely be worth it to get it up on SDA. I really wish we had more time to run this Sad

Is that rule about a 2p-run must be faster than a 1p-run really correctly interpreted ? It makes sense for games where enemies, obstacles, etc are identical in number and difficulty. But for games that are both harder and with more enemies when you play 2p (DDII for example), I don't see the logic in comparing the time with a 1p-run. Especially considering the perverse situation where a runner holds back a better run just to get his 2p-run posted.

feasel

2009-08-21 06:14:55 pm

difficult and stupidly random

I don't see the logic of the "2p must be faster than 1p" rule either. Playing 2-players usually makes a game harder, not easier.

A speedrun is a very error-prone thing, and having two players squares your success rate (making it far far smaller). It also adds extra dimensions of game play (coordinated screen scrolling, enemy manipulation, etc) that don't exist in single player mode. Yes, with 2 players you can sometimes save time by dividing up some of the work, but typically this advantage does not offset the steep increase in the failure rate.

So 2p is different in strategy, more challenging, and, it seems to me, shouldn't be judged by the same standards as a 1p game anyway. No more than you'd compare an "Expert" mode run to a "Novice" mode run.

mikwuyma

2009-08-21 07:11:45 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

The "2-players must be faster" thing was something Enhasa thought of. I understood where he was coming from, but now that I think about the rule, it's actually pretty stupid because like people are saying, a lot of games have tougher 2-player modes with more enemies (TMNT 2 and 4, DD II), or the enemies have more life (Contra Hard Corps).

I'm going to be putting up the rules for revision on the wiki, and I think this is definitely one of the rules I should revise. A multiplayer run only needs to be faster if there's nothing detrimental about playing multiplayer (Rescue Rangers, Rush'n Attack, Tales games, X-men Legends/Marvel Ultimate Alliance).

EDIT: Yeah what ktwo said.

Lag.Com

2009-08-23 04:09:46 am

sda loyalist

Quake has always had the 'more players must be faster' rule but the enemy count doesn't change in coop (unless the mapmaker was -really- devious) so I don't see why it should carry over to the main site. Unless the game is Doom, etc.

sinister1

Edit history:

sinister1: 2009-08-23 10:48:24 pm

2009-08-23 03:43:32 pm

sinister1

so pro u don't even know

I had been thinking the same things that some of you mentioned regarding SDA's standards for 2 player runs, but held back because I thought I would sound biased Tongue

UPDATE: Our new best time is 13:30 so we are making progress (I was fairly drunk for that one). I am thinking that a 12:30 run would be very solid based on my experience so far. We have improved some strats and are executing a bit better but still have a ways to go. I think we will be very lucky to get anywhere close to 12:30 in the short time we have left to play and we are about to make a few attempts right now. I will post more updates as we improve stuff.

EDIT: We just got 12:12. Only Missions 4 and 8 were not as clean as we would like. At this point I would have to say that a sub 12:00 run is possible but I doubt anything below 11:30 can be attained in 2 player mode. We are going to keep working on this but have only 1 day left so this might end up being our best run.

Riskbreaker Y

2009-08-23 03:52:52 pm

berserker status

I am seriously hoping you guys get something submittable in the short time you guys have. it would be pretty crazy if you guys accomplish this!

sinister1

2009-08-25 12:16:50 pm

sinister1

so pro u don't even know

FINAL UPDATE: Well I am sorry to report that we could not achieve sub 12:00. The 12:12 remains our best time and I dropped Jimmy Lee of at the airport a few hours ago so no more attempts. If we had more time, like even just 1 day I am pretty sure we get sub 12:00. So in that way it is kind of frustrating. On the bright side we did get a pretty solid run in a very short amount of time and I will say that I think the 12:12 would be a submittable run if the rules changes discussed in this thread do indeed take place. As far as entertainment value, the 2 player B run certainly delivers. We will definitely be running the game again, but it won't be for a while as we live about 2000 miles apart.

I will be posting this run on Youtube soon and hopefully submit it here. Thank you all for your advice and support it is greatly appreciated.

DK28

2009-08-25 02:03:33 pm

General Kong - Bullets and Bananas

Nice, still phenomenal for such a limited amount of time to plan and practice. Can't wait to see it. Wink

jprophet22

2009-08-25 06:02:16 pm

This world is all we have,cherish it

Damn I wish we could have gotten sub 12:00. We're definitely beating this run next time we see each other. Whenever that may be. Oh well, back to my zelda tas... I hope everyone enjoys the run when it gets posted.

sinister1

2009-08-26 05:22:59 pm

sinister1

so pro u don't even know

OK, the 2 player run is up on Youtube, enjoy Smiley

Part 1:

Part 2:

Any feedback is appreciated.

jprophet22

Edit history:

jprophet22: 2009-08-26 08:45:14 pm

2009-08-26 08:38:14 pm

This world is all we have,cherish it

God I feel sick. I just watched it on youtube and can't believe how many knees i missed. Oh well, this game is hard...

DK28

2009-08-26 10:01:39 pm

General Kong - Bullets and Bananas

Quote from sinister1:

OK, the 2 player run is up on Youtube, enjoy Smiley

Any feedback is appreciated.

You modest bastard. Wink

You haven't submitted this yet because....

honorableJay

2009-08-26 10:30:19 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

Great run, especially some of the screen/enemy manipulation parts. The Illusion fight was great too, almost like you guys were fighting over who'd get to deliver the final blows Smiley

As for Mr. Greenhair........I believe the term "rape" doesn't come close........

DK28

2009-08-26 10:35:55 pm

General Kong - Bullets and Bananas

Quote from honorableJay:

As for Mr. Greenhair........I believe the term "rape" doesn't come close........

Only if it is while skinning him alive and severing all four limbs, while laughing at him. Then you're in the same neighborhood.

sinister1

2009-08-27 12:03:36 am

sinister1

so pro u don't even know

Thanks for the positive feedback guys. It was pretty lucky that we finished him off so quick after I mistakenly let him out of "the trap."

There was a 12:16 run we had that he disappeared in and we got him in the trap while he was invisible the whole time, it was sick.

I will be submitting this and the 1 player run later this week.

jprophet22

2009-08-27 12:49:31 am

This world is all we have,cherish it

Quote from DK28:

Quote from sinister1:

You modest bastard. Wink

You haven't submitted this yet because....

If the modest part was directed my way because of my knee comment I must apologize. I'm somewhat of a perfectionist at times, as can be seen from my interest in TASing. I'm glad you guys like the run! Thanks for inspiring Sinister1 to run this game!

sinister1

2009-08-27 09:18:24 am

sinister1

so pro u don't even know

Quote from jprophet22:

Quote from DK28:

Quote from sinister1:

You modest bastard. Wink

You haven't submitted this yet because....

If the modest part was directed my way because of my knee comment I must apologize. I'm somewhat of a perfectionist at times, as can be seen from my interest in TASing. I'm glad you guys like the run! Thanks for inspiring Sinister1 to run this game!

I thought that too for a second when I saw the post, but he was quoting me so I am pretty sure it was directed at me. Also DK doesn't have the rapport with you to call you a bastard but he can get away with it with me.

Don't worry about missing knees man, you have not played the game on the console since the 90's and you played pretty freakin well for the amount of time we spent on the game. When we get together next time we will definitely improve the run.

mikwuyma

2009-08-27 02:47:34 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

So I saw the youtube videos expecting to see Double Dragon II, but instead I see a bunch of knees. What a gyp!

Seriously though, that run was pretty awesome. I have one question though.

In the beginning of the fourth stage (3:25ish) Jimmy Lee just hangs back and does nothing. Would he just get in the way, or were you trying to prevent some enemies from spawning?

Next time 3-player run with Bimmy Lee, BET IT!

jprophet22

2009-08-27 02:54:05 pm

This world is all we have,cherish it

Thanks for the feedback! The purpose of Jimmy hanging back is that if you scroll the screen too far to the right the lindas will spawn from the left side instead of by the elevator door forcing someone to walk left and kill them and have to traverse the entire screen back to the elevator. This would probably lose 5-10 seconds depending on thier movement. And the 3 player run is unfortunately not going to happen since Bimmy has developed terminal knee cancer :-[

DK28

2009-08-27 03:33:04 pm

General Kong - Bullets and Bananas

Quote from sinister1:

I thought that too for a second when I saw the post, but he was quoting me so I am pretty sure it was directed at me. Also DK doesn't have the rapport with you to call you a bastard but he can get away with it with me.

This.

sinister1

2009-08-28 02:37:30 pm

sinister1

so pro u don't even know

Both runs are submitted to SDA now and my 1 player run is up on Youtube here:

Part 1
Part 2

Humorisk

2009-10-28 08:16:37 am

The 2 player run is very entertaining. Good job to you.

Time for Double Dragon 3? Contrary to popular opinion, the elusive hidden character known as Bimmy Lee makes his first appearance there, and not Double Dragon 2.

sinister1

2009-10-28 04:58:23 pm

sinister1

so pro u don't even know

Quote from Humorisk:

The 2 player run is very entertaining. Good job to you.

Time for Double Dragon 3? Contrary to popular opinion, the elusive hidden character known as Bimmy Lee makes his first appearance there, and not Double Dragon 2.

Thanks it was a very fun run to complete. I think someone is running Double Dragon 3 not sure if there is a thread, but I know someone has a time for it in their sig.

sinister1

2011-07-31 12:59:31 pm

sinister1

so pro u don't even know

Necro bump time.

jprophet22 and I just got an 11:45 2 player B run which beats our posted SDA run by 28 seconds, a pretty solid improvement. Wondering if we should submit or go for lower. We missed the mission 6 skip and had a bit of a problem at the end of mission 4. I think the best we could do would be an 11:3x if we minimized mistakes.

Heidrage

2011-07-31 01:02:54 pm

Willing to teach you the impossible

Vid?