General Kong - Bullets and Bananas
Here comes trouble. 
Did you already beat my time?
Quote from DK28:
Here comes trouble. Did you already beat my time?
Not exactly...but I might with some luck
SDA Forum
I just watched your accepted run. It was very good. I was frightened by how perfect you could execute that flying knee.
Anyway, here are some things I think might be a bit faster in case any one wants to improve the run.
*Note: I did not actually measure the times needed, I'm just purely guessing so I could be wrong.*
All in all these improvements might only save 3 seconds max, so it's nothing big, but I just thought I'd mention them. (if they even are improvements ;p)
I'm almost certain the first boss battle is faster if you lure him to the left and kick him off screen. (maybe knee kick him in that direction once to make em go faster).
@5:33 (after the 'underground' level) you'll get 4 conveyor belts (or w/e you call em). In the video you go down first, but if you time it correctly you can just jump from the first one you stand on to the other side and if you then knee kick when you land you won't fall off. It won't save too much time and is a lot more dangerous, but hey, it's possible and faster so I'd figure I'd mention it.
@6:10 (the next stage) I was wondering if it wasn't faster to use the upper platform, because you need less jumping then.
I also thought you could kill the endboss quite easily if you got into a certain pattern, but I'm not certain of this anymore, maybe I'll check if I can find it again (and if it works).
Anyway, here are some things I think might be a bit faster in case any one wants to improve the run.
*Note: I did not actually measure the times needed, I'm just purely guessing so I could be wrong.*
All in all these improvements might only save 3 seconds max, so it's nothing big, but I just thought I'd mention them. (if they even are improvements ;p)
I'm almost certain the first boss battle is faster if you lure him to the left and kick him off screen. (maybe knee kick him in that direction once to make em go faster).
@5:33 (after the 'underground' level) you'll get 4 conveyor belts (or w/e you call em). In the video you go down first, but if you time it correctly you can just jump from the first one you stand on to the other side and if you then knee kick when you land you won't fall off. It won't save too much time and is a lot more dangerous, but hey, it's possible and faster so I'd figure I'd mention it.
@6:10 (the next stage) I was wondering if it wasn't faster to use the upper platform, because you need less jumping then.
I also thought you could kill the endboss quite easily if you got into a certain pattern, but I'm not certain of this anymore, maybe I'll check if I can find it again (and if it works).
sinister1
so pro u don't even know
Quote from ZaibirQuild:
...Anyway, here are some things I think might be a bit faster in case any one wants to improve the run.
*Note: I did not actually measure the times needed, I'm just purely guessing so I could be wrong.*
All in all these improvements might only save 3 seconds max, so it's nothing big, but I just thought I'd mention them. (if they even are improvements ;p)
I'm almost certain the first boss battle is faster if you lure him to the left and kick him off screen. (maybe knee kick him in that direction once to make em go faster).
@5:33 (after the 'underground' level) you'll get 4 conveyor belts (or w/e you call em). In the video you go down first, but if you time it correctly you can just jump from the first one you stand on to the other side and if you then knee kick when you land you won't fall off. It won't save too much time and is a lot more dangerous, but hey, it's possible and faster so I'd figure I'd mention it....I also thought you could kill the endboss quite easily if you got into a certain pattern, but I'm not certain of this anymore, maybe I'll check if I can find it again (and if it works).
*Note: I did not actually measure the times needed, I'm just purely guessing so I could be wrong.*
All in all these improvements might only save 3 seconds max, so it's nothing big, but I just thought I'd mention them. (if they even are improvements ;p)
I'm almost certain the first boss battle is faster if you lure him to the left and kick him off screen. (maybe knee kick him in that direction once to make em go faster).
@5:33 (after the 'underground' level) you'll get 4 conveyor belts (or w/e you call em). In the video you go down first, but if you time it correctly you can just jump from the first one you stand on to the other side and if you then knee kick when you land you won't fall off. It won't save too much time and is a lot more dangerous, but hey, it's possible and faster so I'd figure I'd mention it....I also thought you could kill the endboss quite easily if you got into a certain pattern, but I'm not certain of this anymore, maybe I'll check if I can find it again (and if it works).
First of all great job DK28, terrific run. You really execute the special moves precisely and have finally established a good time for one of the best NES games previously absent from this site. I admire your persistence for not giving up after the rejection and smashing your previously submitted time...awesome.
I can confirm ZabirQuild is right about a few of the improvements in case anyone is looking to improve DK28's time. I can also confirm the level 6 glitch mentioned earlier in this thread by honorableJay, however it is fairly difficult and you would have to have balls of steel to attempt it that late in the run because if you mess up its a reset (if you hit it saves a lot of time though).
General Kong - Bullets and Bananas
Thank you, it was some hard work. Like I mentioned in the verification thread, I'm really just unhappy about the Final Boss fight. He was being damn stubborn. I had a 14:05 run with no deaths where I obliterated him in moments. He was running into my knees like a lemming.
About crossing the river on the upper platform, yes, it's faster. Force of habit on my part taking the bottom. It's easier to align yourself with the bottom and you are more likely to go swimming as the jump is farther to the other side. The risk/return of 1 second just wasn't enough of a reward to use it.
But about the level 6 trick. I gave up on that after many failed attempts, I would say you save about 5-6 seconds, but if you can get lucky and have a run with it being successful, bonus.
About crossing the river on the upper platform, yes, it's faster. Force of habit on my part taking the bottom. It's easier to align yourself with the bottom and you are more likely to go swimming as the jump is farther to the other side. The risk/return of 1 second just wasn't enough of a reward to use it.
But about the level 6 trick. I gave up on that after many failed attempts, I would say you save about 5-6 seconds, but if you can get lucky and have a run with it being successful, bonus.
General Kong - Bullets and Bananas
Quote from sinister1:
I have some good stuff in my bag of tricks for that green haired idiot. I hope to submit my run by the end of this week, but I need some luck.
The best to you. I've been experementing with some patterns, not full time though. I have a few other games in line first before I can really get back on it. Good luck.
sinister1
so pro u don't even know
A TAS'ing friend of mine told me you have 4 frames (6, 7, 8 & 9) if frame 0 is the first of you in the kneeling position (landing from a jump/knee/fall or standing up off the ground). That means you have 1/15 of a second since the game runs at 60 fps.
It is pretty precise but once you get it down its automatic. I would say I get it around 95-98% of the time. I do not recommend button mashing to get the knee consistently, you just have to master the timing. The only place I button mash is in level 4 underground because for some reason I have trouble getting it there.
I hope this is helpful.
It is pretty precise but once you get it down its automatic. I would say I get it around 95-98% of the time. I do not recommend button mashing to get the knee consistently, you just have to master the timing. The only place I button mash is in level 4 underground because for some reason I have trouble getting it there.
I hope this is helpful.
Quote from sinister1:
A TAS'ing friend of mine told me you have 4 frames (6, 7, 8 & 9) if frame 0 is the first of you in the kneeling position (landing from a jump/knee/fall or standing up off the ground). That means you have 1/15 of a second since the game runs at 60 fps.
Can't help but doubt this game runs at 60 fps. Don't they all run @ 24 and/or 25 fps?
Offcourse still a hard thing to do even if it is at 25 fps (could be 60, but for some reason I doubt it) with such great consistancy.
contraddicted
Quote from ZaibirQuild:
Can't help but doubt this game runs at 60 fps. Don't they all run @ 24 and/or 25 fps?
It runs at 60 half frames per second. Every 1\60 of a second either the odd or the even lines are put out. That's called "interlaced video" and done like this because of the way CRTs work. The 60\30 thing is NTSC, the (also) american video standard.
25 fps would be PAL (Europe), but there are actually also 50 half frames a second.
24 fps is cinematographic standard iirc and usually there are full frames as output, which is then called "progressive video".
Quote from EvilJogga:
Quote from ZaibirQuild:
Can't help but doubt this game runs at 60 fps. Don't they all run @ 24 and/or 25 fps?
It runs at 60 half frames per second. Every 1\60 of a second either the odd or the even lines are put out. That's called "interlaced video" and done like this because of the way CRTs work. The 60\30 thing is NTSC, the (also) american video standard.
25 fps would be PAL (Europe), but there are actually also 50 half frames a second.
24 fps is cinematographic standard iirc and usually there are full frames as output, which is then called "progressive video".
ah yes. I got confused with the half frames bit and actually thought NTSC was 23,976, but yeh I mixed them all up a bit. ( I have done some video editing and learned a bit about it (yes only for fun), but I mixed some things up I guess ;p). Thanks for explaining!
The reason I doubted it was because I also have tried running this game and try to do the trick and I'm also (still) working on a very good Kirby run were I need to perform (so they say) a 1-frame trick. I've also practiced with that trick and succeeded several times. I just could not imagine that 4 frames would aleady need such a small time span, because that would mean that 1-frame trick would need even less. (luckily you need to do it WAAAAY less then the knee kick ^^ and I'm doing it on PAL ;p)
Ah well, all is clear now. As said before, it's amazing
The Dork Knight himself.
Very nice run, definitely with the flying knee timing. Even when I played that game to death as a kid the knee was always the hardest move to pull off consistently.
For anyone wanting to improve the time, here are a few suggestions for time savers.
lvl 1: Since a lot of the enemies here are weak, the uppercut maneuver (attack just as you land) can come in handy since a bunch of your targets will die from one hit with it (chicks, knife throwers who exit the door after the ladder). The easiest way I've found to take down the boss is to lead him to the edge on the left, then walk in a diagonal pattern towards him. Once you're close enough, jump to his right side, then send him flying over the left edge with a knee. The diagonal pattern keeps him from grabbing you.
lvl 2: After the first two guys you have to take down, walk off the left edge of the platform to go down instead of using the ladder. Once at the bottom, take out the first guy with either a knee or a cyclone off the right edge, then jump kick the second one coming down the ladder (knock him off to the left) so he falls into the pit. Doing this will cost you a life, but you'll take about 10 seconds off the clock.
lvl 3: After you take down the first two guys with a knee, pick up a bar and throw it at the 3rd guy as soon as the door opens. You'll kill him instantly and will save time (since you don't have to setup a knee).
lvl 4: On the top level of the ship, when the chicks come after you, manipulate the screen scrolling so as you kill them, the 3rd one appears from the right side of the screen instead of the left (it's easier to do with 2 players, not sure how well it can be done with 1 player).
lvl 5: After the first 3 chicks are taken down, level yourself out near the top and jump off the edge. Once you land, the one guy will appear right in front of you. Execute an uppercut to send him over the edge, then jump off the bottom to continue (should save about 2 seconds from the current run). For the water, cross at the top platform to minimize jumping.
lvl 6: The exit skip is tricky, but it's worth getting down to save time. Jump onto the 3rd platform (second disappearing one, first small platform) and stand on the right edge. Then jump off to the right and hold up. There's no need to do a cyclone like I described before, I just did that as a kid thinking it would give me more height. It's possible to just jump to the door. For 2 players it is possible to cyclone both players up to the door if you play on game mode B, but it's a very slim chance to actually get it at the moment (tas guys are working on figuring out how it works at the moment).
lvl 7: There's a quick timesaver in the beginning. Execute a flying knee from the small treadmill next to the door to save about half a second.
That's about all I know right now. The only advice I can give with Mr. Greenhair is to try jumping away from him and doing a cyclone. If he's close enough he'll almost always try to do a headstand kick (and always get creamed by the cyclone too). If he gets his late enough you can hit him with a flying knee just as he gets up for a lovely 2 hit combo.
For anyone wanting to improve the time, here are a few suggestions for time savers.
lvl 1: Since a lot of the enemies here are weak, the uppercut maneuver (attack just as you land) can come in handy since a bunch of your targets will die from one hit with it (chicks, knife throwers who exit the door after the ladder). The easiest way I've found to take down the boss is to lead him to the edge on the left, then walk in a diagonal pattern towards him. Once you're close enough, jump to his right side, then send him flying over the left edge with a knee. The diagonal pattern keeps him from grabbing you.
lvl 2: After the first two guys you have to take down, walk off the left edge of the platform to go down instead of using the ladder. Once at the bottom, take out the first guy with either a knee or a cyclone off the right edge, then jump kick the second one coming down the ladder (knock him off to the left) so he falls into the pit. Doing this will cost you a life, but you'll take about 10 seconds off the clock.
lvl 3: After you take down the first two guys with a knee, pick up a bar and throw it at the 3rd guy as soon as the door opens. You'll kill him instantly and will save time (since you don't have to setup a knee).
lvl 4: On the top level of the ship, when the chicks come after you, manipulate the screen scrolling so as you kill them, the 3rd one appears from the right side of the screen instead of the left (it's easier to do with 2 players, not sure how well it can be done with 1 player).
lvl 5: After the first 3 chicks are taken down, level yourself out near the top and jump off the edge. Once you land, the one guy will appear right in front of you. Execute an uppercut to send him over the edge, then jump off the bottom to continue (should save about 2 seconds from the current run). For the water, cross at the top platform to minimize jumping.
lvl 6: The exit skip is tricky, but it's worth getting down to save time. Jump onto the 3rd platform (second disappearing one, first small platform) and stand on the right edge. Then jump off to the right and hold up. There's no need to do a cyclone like I described before, I just did that as a kid thinking it would give me more height. It's possible to just jump to the door. For 2 players it is possible to cyclone both players up to the door if you play on game mode B, but it's a very slim chance to actually get it at the moment (tas guys are working on figuring out how it works at the moment).
lvl 7: There's a quick timesaver in the beginning. Execute a flying knee from the small treadmill next to the door to save about half a second.
That's about all I know right now. The only advice I can give with Mr. Greenhair is to try jumping away from him and doing a cyclone. If he's close enough he'll almost always try to do a headstand kick (and always get creamed by the cyclone too). If he gets his late enough you can hit him with a flying knee just as he gets up for a lovely 2 hit combo.