What's with the Pikmin 1 speed run? Is an improvement possible?

2011-09-04 07:49:27 pm

Quote from xHaibara:

Hey there

I'm now going to do a 8 day speedrun of Pikmin, some videos are already posted on my Youtube channel, but that was just to show other people how to beat the game in 8 days.
Now doing more videos about it, almost 2 minutes saved by only re-doing day 2 and day 3.

The thing that comes to mind immediately is whether completing the game in 8 days is even faster. Splitting up a day may turn out to be quicker in the long run. Also, be prepared to deal with snitchbugs because in a speedrun, you'd go to impact site to grow blues before going to distant spring. There are an incredible amount of routes that can be taken in this game so I'm excited to see what you will come up with.

Quote:

It's worth noting that a 7-day route is in the works.

7 day completion would almost certainly be slower so I wouldn't even worry about it. It would be a nice challenge run but it's not suited for a speedrun. As you can see in my Positron Generator with reds video, it basically takes a whole day to retrieve the part.

Quote:

To xHaibara and T3: have you spoken to TimmyNuc1eus about the route for Forest of Hope without blues?

I took a look at his route and it had flaws in it anyway. I wouldn't really trust what he's saying. I figured out a way to do that area in one day anyway so it doesn't matter. All that's needed to solve a 7 day completion is to get the Positron Generator out of the water without having to restart the day. I've gotten very close but I haven't gotten it all the way out. Though, I'm pretty sure it's possible.

[quote="xHaibara"]Hey there :D
I'm now going to do a 8 day speedrun of Pikmin, some videos are already posted on my [url=http://www.youtube.com/xHaibara]Youtube channel[/url], but that was just to show other people how to beat the game in 8 days.
Now doing more videos about it, almost 2 minutes saved by only re-doing day 2 and day 3.[/quote]

The thing that comes to mind immediately is whether completing the game in 8 days is even faster. Splitting up a day may turn out to be quicker in the long run. Also, be prepared to deal with snitchbugs because in a speedrun, you'd go to impact site to grow blues before going to distant spring. There are an incredible amount of routes that can be taken in this game so I'm excited to see what you will come up with.

[quote]It's worth noting that a 7-day route is in the works.[/quote]

7 day completion would almost certainly be slower so I wouldn't even worry about it. It would be a nice challenge run but it's not suited for a speedrun. As you can see in my Positron Generator with reds video, it basically takes a whole day to retrieve the part.

[quote]To xHaibara and T3: have you spoken to TimmyNuc1eus about the route for Forest of Hope without blues?[/quote]

I took a look at his route and it had flaws in it anyway. I wouldn't really trust what he's saying. I figured out a way to do that area in one day anyway so it doesn't matter. All that's needed to solve a 7 day completion is to get the Positron Generator out of the water without having to restart the day. I've gotten very close but I haven't gotten it all the way out. Though, I'm pretty sure it's possible.

xHaibara

2011-09-05 01:35:41 pm

@T3 : So, what about completing Forest Navel in one day?
Btw, I have a problem about doing the glitch you used to get main engine on day 2, it may be because I play PAL version (slower) or not doing it correctly :p
And I'm waiting for youtube to allow me posting videos longer than 15 minutes to upload the vids Wink

@Silly : Thanks for your post, and there may be another way to get sagittarius on GC version other than trowing pikmin in water and call them on the other side so that they build the bridge. Gonna try it on vid and see if it looks possible Wink

Sillygramcracker

2011-09-05 06:50:41 pm

THIS RUN CONTAINS SECRET WORLDS

Just a quick heads up. The following video demonstrates that the first of two gates blocking the cannon beetle in Forest of Hope can also be blown up by two yellows with bombs, in such a manner that they can both be saved from drowning. To see the trick in question, skip to 6:40 in the video.

himajin4572

2011-09-06 11:04:55 am

@Silly：Thank you for advertising my video.

I will post [FoH 1day without bule] on YouTube.
It would be greatly appreciated by me if it is useful for speedrun.

T3

2011-09-06 12:34:06 pm

Quote:

So, what about completing Forest Navel in one day?

It's probably possible but I haven't managed to do it yet. Though, it doesn't really matter because that's probably significantly harder than just pulling a part out of water.

Quote:

It would be greatly appreciated by me if it is useful for speedrun.

Probably not useful for a speedrun but definitely useful for a 7 day completion.

xHaibara

2011-09-17 09:29:23 am

Day 2 redo finally uploaded Smiley

(link to part B at the end of the vid)

Enjoy & tell me if you see something wrong with the strat that can be improved Wink

Anonymous52555

Edit history:

Anonymous52555: 2011-09-18 09:09:36 pm

Anonymous52555: 2011-09-18 09:09:24 pm

2011-09-18 08:59:28 pm

Metroidvanias are God Tier

7day is possible? cool. Just a thought, Why can't we do Forest Navel in one day?

~~Also I wonder what would happen if you were to take all your reds and drown them on day one, Would you be able to like skip the engine for a while or something?~~

Edit: Just watched T3's video on it. However I wonder if you could use the trick to get the positron generator first and skip the engine until you felt like going back for it.

himajin4572

2011-11-24 09:59:40 pm

Now, 7day run is possible.
Please look at my avatar, it is proof.

I'll post video on YouTube soon.

HavokMoobii

2011-11-24 10:04:48 pm

Awesome. Checked your channel a few times since you said you would and just assumed the lack of the video meant it wasn't possible. Can't wait to see it.

Sillygramcracker

2011-11-25 08:36:08 pm

THIS RUN CONTAINS SECRET WORLDS

@HavokMoobii: It seems that himajin is in the middle of uploading the videos. At the time of this posting, 5 of the 7 videos are up.

The question we must ask now is whether this 7-day route is faster than the 8-day route. Also, seeing that Forest Navel can be finished in 1 day, I'm beginning to wonder if 6 days may be possible, but only if several logistical limitations can be remedied. Himajin currently takes advantage of the required 2nd visit to Impact Site to grow enough blues because there is not enough time in 1 day to grow 90 blues and gather all 9 ship parts in Forest Navel. Also, Forest Navel in 1 day seems to only be possible through either splitting Forest of Hope into 2 days, as himajin has done, or by growing extra reds and getting early Positron Generator in Impact Site on day 2. At the moment the former strategy allows you to delay your visit to IS in order to grant extra time for gathering blues, allowing for DS in 1 day, while the latter strategy comes at the cost of either FN in 1 day or DS in 1 day (though not both). Unless this conflict of resource management can be reconciled, 7 days is the limit for now.

@HavokMoobii: It seems that himajin is in the middle of uploading the videos. At the time of this posting, 5 of the 7 videos are up.

The question we must ask now is whether this 7-day route is faster than the 8-day route. Also, seeing that Forest Navel can be finished in 1 day, I'm beginning to wonder if 6 days may be possible, but only if several logistical limitations can be remedied. Himajin currently takes advantage of the required 2nd visit to Impact Site to grow enough blues because there is not enough time in 1 day to grow 90 blues and gather all 9 ship parts in Forest Navel. Also, Forest Navel in 1 day seems to only be possible through either splitting Forest of Hope into 2 days, as himajin has done, or by growing extra reds and getting early Positron Generator in Impact Site on day 2. At the moment the former strategy allows you to delay your visit to IS in order to grant extra time for gathering blues, allowing for DS in 1 day, while the latter strategy comes at the cost of either FN in 1 day or DS in 1 day (though not both). Unless this conflict of resource management can be reconciled, 7 days is the limit for now.

T3

Edit history:

T3: 2011-11-28 05:19:21 pm

T3: 2011-11-28 05:15:35 pm

2011-11-28 05:13:58 pm

Quote:

Unless this conflict of resource management can be reconciled, 7 days is the limit for now.

6 days seems right around the corner as I see it. All that it takes is collecting the positron generator on day 2 while growing 80 or so reds. Though, later on, completing distant spring in one day would become significantly harder with fewer blues but still not impossible.

Basically the route would go something like this:

Day 1 - Impact Site (main engine)
Day 2 - Impact Site (collect positron generator and grow a bunch of reds)
Day 3 - Forest of Hope (clear this area)
Day 4 - Forest Navel (clear this area)
Day 5 - Distant Spring (clear this area with snitchbugs and ~40 blues)
Day 6 - Final Trial (secret safe)

If I understood correctly, Himajin said in one of his video comments that he's actually done something similar to day 5, so the only problem is day 2.

Of course, there is always another option for completing 6 days but that involves clearing forest of hope with only 25 reds <_<

Also, if anybody is interested, here's Himajin's video of completing Forest Navel in 1 day:

[quote]Unless this conflict of resource management can be reconciled, 7 days is the limit for now.[/quote]

6 days seems right around the corner as I see it. All that it takes is collecting the positron generator on day 2 while growing 80 or so reds. Though, later on, completing distant spring in one day would become significantly harder with fewer blues but still not impossible.

Basically the route would go something like this:

Day 1 - Impact Site (main engine)
Day 2 - Impact Site (collect positron generator and grow a bunch of reds)
Day 3 - Forest of Hope (clear this area)
Day 4 - Forest Navel (clear this area)
Day 5 - Distant Spring (clear this area with snitchbugs and ~40 blues)
Day 6 - Final Trial (secret safe)

If I understood correctly, Himajin said in one of his video comments that he's actually done something similar to day 5, so the only problem is day 2.

Of course, there is always another option for completing 6 days but that involves clearing forest of hope with only 25 reds <_<

Also, if anybody is interested, here's Himajin's video of completing Forest Navel in 1 day:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH0KNqQPI0U

HavokMoobii

2011-11-28 08:46:07 pm

Wow.. that Forest Navel run is incredible. Hopefully 6 days is possible!

So much for 9 days being the absolute minimum required to beat the game. Smiley

Sillygramcracker

Edit history:

Sillygramcracker: 2012-01-01 06:54:32 pm

2012-01-01 06:42:14 pm

THIS RUN CONTAINS SECRET WORLDS

HUGE UPDATE: himajin completed a six day run, and deserves our congratulations!! Did I mention it was done without early Positron Generator?

The run has a couple of deaths in it, one due to shitty luck against the Burrowing Snagret and the other due to that dumb counting glitch in Distant Spring where you lose a pikmin for no good reason (you'll notice at the beginning of Day 4 that though Olimar takes out 100 pikmin, the counter goes down to 99 and the lost pikmin never comes back). Considering the nature of these deaths it's obvious that a deathless 6 day run is still possible.

The video quality is sort of meh, but this still stands as a valid proof of concept. All pikmin runners must watch the following videos:

Day 1 (which takes a while since you need flower pikmin to finish FoH in 1 day without early Positron Generator)

Day 2: FoH in 1 day

Day 3: FN in 1 day; enough blues grown here to prepare for DS

Day 4: DS in 1 day; apparent absence of snitchbugs (a.k.a run killers) due to extremely early arrival
EDIT: Sorry, I forgot to note that the end of this day gets cut off in the recording, but only after the last part is obtained and all pikmin are back at the base.

Day 5: Laughably obligatory second visit to Impact Site

Day 6: Final Trial gets destroyed

With this run in place, what needs to be done now is to try to optimize execution for the existing routes for 6 days, 7 days, and 8 days, and time them, to see which is fastest. It's now only a matter of time before the old 9-day run gets booted from the SDA page....

HUGE UPDATE: himajin completed a six day run, and deserves our congratulations!! Did I mention it was done without early Positron Generator?

The run has a couple of deaths in it, one due to shitty luck against the Burrowing Snagret and the other due to that dumb counting glitch in Distant Spring where you lose a pikmin for no good reason (you'll notice at the beginning of Day 4 that though Olimar takes out 100 pikmin, the counter goes down to 99 and the lost pikmin never comes back). Considering the nature of these deaths it's obvious that a deathless 6 day run is still possible.

The video quality is sort of meh, but this still stands as a valid proof of concept. All pikmin runners must watch the following videos:

Day 1 (which takes a while since you need flower pikmin to finish FoH in 1 day without early Positron Generator)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2-lQB6Z_SQ

Day 2: FoH in 1 day
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONFojrC_39s

Day 3: FN in 1 day; enough blues grown here to prepare for DS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWKFJw3RtI0

Day 4: DS in 1 day; apparent absence of snitchbugs (a.k.a run killers) due to extremely early arrival
EDIT: Sorry, I forgot to note that the end of this day gets cut off in the recording, but only after the last part is obtained and all pikmin are back at the base.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEdQabTTX9k

Day 5: Laughably obligatory second visit to Impact Site
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-kpJohMGF0

Day 6: Final Trial gets destroyed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo35t8Yj0cE

With this run in place, what needs to be done now is to try to optimize execution for the existing routes for 6 days, 7 days, and 8 days, and time them, to see which is fastest. It's now only a matter of time before the old 9-day run gets booted from the SDA page....

Sillygramcracker

2012-01-01 07:34:20 pm

THIS RUN CONTAINS SECRET WORLDS

For those who understand Japanese, here's himajin's blog entry documenting and commenting on the process of recording this extraordinary run. Interestingly, the title, when translated through Google, is "The Last Day of Pikmin Pain". After reading a mangled translation I get the impression that himajin is retiring for a while.

Original page:
http://himajinpikmin.seesaa.net/?1317309220

Google's attempt at translating into English:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fhimajinpikmin.seesaa.net%2F%3F1317309220

himajin4572

2012-01-01 09:13:35 pm

Happy New Year guys!

I'm sorry to be late for seeing this website.

@T3
Thank you for advertizing my FN in 1day video.
I couldn't succeed 7day, and 6day run without your 8day run.
It was still great job!

@Silly
Thank you for advertizing my 6day completion videos.
The video quality....It was horrible>_>. I'm really sorry about that.
When I was recording day2 and day3, I couldn't use the TV which always used for recording.
Those videos quality were the worst ever>_<.
And on day4, My video camera battery is out then>_>.

It was 2 deaths, but no-death run is possible. 海鮮丼 who is 2nd 7day runnner will try it.
His videos are here: http://www.nicozon.net/myvideo/22565271
Those videos are recorded by capture card, so you can see better quality.

And thank you for link to my blog.
That's right. I am retiring for a while.....

I can't use English well... My English sentence is horrible>_><_<.
Sorry....

ShadowWraith

2012-01-02 09:38:40 am

.

Your english is perfectly understandable. Smiley

Manocheese

2012-01-02 07:47:07 pm

Yes, a cucco riding the ground.

Wow, incredible. I'll be sure to watch this soon.

MUGG

2012-01-03 08:26:27 am

TASer

Quote:

With this run in place, what needs to be done now is to try to optimize execution for the existing routes for 6 days, 7 days, and 8 days, and time them, to see which is fastest. It's now only a matter of time before the old 9-day run gets booted from the SDA page....

Quoting the previous runner in his Youtube uploads: "The goal of this run was to complete the game in only 9 days with 50 Pikmin, which are the minimum requirements." So I was under the impression that a new run should primarily aim for the least amount of days and then for a) least amount of pikmin, b) for fastest completion time or c) both.

kirbymastah

2012-01-03 10:22:51 am

6 day doesn't seem ideal for fastest completion time because you have to use so much time to grow flowers in the first day...

Raiker Z

2012-01-03 12:53:09 pm

Doesn't the run on the site already skip day 1? If that's so then it may still be an option, although I am in favor of requiring runs to include day 1 because of timing, a 6 day run may be fine if skipping day 1 is still allowed.

TheOthin

2012-01-03 04:27:36 pm

The runner may have used those as his goals, but that doesn't mean those are goals recognized by SDA. The standards the other runs are judged by would simply require the fastest completion over the course of all days, including Day 1 - regardless of how many days and Pikmin that takes. Runs that go for low day count and low Pikmin count might be possible to get as additional categories, but for the absolute speed run, it hardly seems like they have a reason to matter if they don't contribute to speed.

Sillygramcracker

Edit history:

Sillygramcracker: 2012-01-06 07:33:47 pm

2012-01-06 07:09:42 pm

THIS RUN CONTAINS SECRET WORLDS

I put together an Excel document attempting to time and compare xHaibara's 8 day run, himajin's 7 day run, and himajin's 6 day run.

My findings are as follows: 8 days is probably significantly slower than both 7 days and 6 days, and 6 days may be slower than 7 days. I say this because my estimates are almost certainly slightly off (I had to take some liberties when timing day 4 of the 6 day run), and because we only have himajin's runs as samples for 6 days and 7 days, neither of which are optimized. I also say this because, quite notably, himajin's 6 day run is only between 1 and 3 mins. slower than his(?) 7 day run.

The only thing I'm fairly certain about is that a run whose only goal is to minimize time must either be a 7 day or 6 day run. We can probably safely rule out an 8 day route.

I encourage all interested runners to examine my document carefully and time these three runs themselves. Feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Attachment:

Pikmin route comparison.xlsx

xHaibara

2012-01-10 10:50:42 am

Quote from Sillygramcracker:

I put together an Excel document attempting to time and compare xHaibara's 8 day run, himajin's 7 day run, and himajin's 6 day run.

My findings are as follows: 8 days is probably significantly slower than both 7 days and 6 days, and 6 days may be slower than 7 days. I say this because my estimates are almost certainly slightly off (I had to take some liberties when timing day 4 of the 6 day run), and because we only have himajin's runs as samples for 6 days and 7 days, neither of which are optimized. I also say this because, quite notably, himajin's 6 day run is only between 1 and 3 mins. slower than his(?) 7 day run.

The only thing I'm fairly certain about is that a run whose only goal is to minimize time must either be a 7 day or 6 day run. We can probably safely rule out an 8 day route.

I encourage all interested runners to examine my document carefully and time these three runs themselves. Feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Without looking into your Excel document, I already know that my times are really bad compared the 7days and 6 days runs because they both were done on an NTSC version Wink

Anyway, I started working on it. If I manage to get the 6 days completion, it will be posted as a full run video on my account Smiley

[quote="Sillygramcracker"]I put together an Excel document attempting to time and compare xHaibara's 8 day run, himajin's 7 day run, and himajin's 6 day run.

My findings are as follows: 8 days is probably significantly slower than both 7 days and 6 days, and 6 days may be slower than 7 days. I say this because my estimates are almost certainly slightly off (I had to take some liberties when timing day 4 of the 6 day run), and because we only have himajin's runs as samples for 6 days and 7 days, neither of which are optimized. I also say this because, quite notably, himajin's 6 day run is only between 1 and 3 mins. slower than his(?) 7 day run.

The only thing I'm fairly certain about is that a run whose only goal is to minimize time must either be a 7 day or 6 day run. We can probably safely rule out an 8 day route.

I encourage all interested runners to examine my document carefully and time these three runs themselves. Feedback would be greatly appreciated.[/quote]

Without looking into your Excel document, I already know that my times are really bad compared the 7days and 6 days runs because they both were done on an NTSC version ;)

Anyway, I started working on it. If I manage to get the 6 days completion, it will be posted as a full run video on my account :)

Raiker Z

2012-01-10 05:04:04 pm

^Can't wait to see the new improved 6-day run

himajin4572

2012-01-16 08:51:03 am

Quote:

6 day doesn't seem ideal for fastest completion time because you have to use so much time to grow flowers in the first day...

It is probably possible to beat FoH in 1 day on day 2 even if you don't grow flowers, but it's so hard.