Undertale

smellyfeetyouhave

Edit history:

smellyfeetyouhave: 2015-12-07 07:41:51 am

smellyfeetyouhave: 2015-12-04 07:36:02 pm

2015-12-04 07:31:48 pm

Once again, Discord link for anyone who doesn't have it:
https://discord.gg/0fJMcmFC7YN21T6M

A few of us in the Discord were able to get it multiple times, but it's really precise. I'll try and make a proper explanation of it at some point, but here's a basic rundown.

Basically, you have to bounce off of the wall to hit the trigger and then interact with the dog food ~three frames later. The best setup I found was:

Go to the right of the dog food and let go

Press and hold left.
Then press and hold right. (you should still be facing left and not moving at all)
Then press the up arrow while holding the other two arrows to wallhump off the wall. You're bounce into the trigger and then look back at the dog food and will be able to interact with it for a very small period of time (maybe a frame or two?)

We tested it and it doesn't break anything. It allows you to skip the entire cutscene+mettaton+upgrade with no lasting effects from what I saw. You just can't go back into the lab until you get to the True Lab, but you shouldn't be going back into it until then anyways.
The biggest issue is getting it consistent. It seems to be fairly frame precise so a more consistent setup would help a lot, but so far the setup I explained above is the best one I've found.

You'd also be able to have a much safer Undyne if you could get this consistent as you wouldn't need to be at 1hp for the quiz skip.

Once again, Discord link for anyone who doesn't have it:
https://discord.gg/0fJMcmFC7YN21T6M

A few of us in the Discord were able to get it multiple times, but it's really precise. I'll try and make a proper explanation of it at some point, but here's a basic rundown.

Basically, you have to bounce off of the wall to hit the trigger and then interact with the dog food ~three frames later. The best setup I found was:

Go to the right of the dog food and let go

Press and hold left.
Then press and hold right. (you should still be facing left and not moving at all)
Then press the up arrow while holding the other two arrows to wallhump off the wall. You're bounce into the trigger and then look back at the dog food and will be able to interact with it for a very small period of time (maybe a frame or two?)

We tested it and it doesn't break anything. It allows you to skip the entire cutscene+mettaton+upgrade with no lasting effects from what I saw. You just can't go back into the lab until you get to the True Lab, but you shouldn't be going back into it until then anyways.
The biggest issue is getting it consistent. It seems to be fairly frame precise so a more consistent setup would help a lot, but so far the setup I explained above is the best one I've found.

You'd also be able to have a much safer Undyne if you could get this consistent as you wouldn't need to be at 1hp for the quiz skip.

Omgwthdude

Edit history:

Omgwthdude: 2015-12-04 08:59:37 pm

Omgwthdude: 2015-12-04 08:49:46 pm

Omgwthdude: 2015-12-04 08:48:25 pm

Omgwthdude: 2015-12-04 08:48:19 pm

Omgwthdude: 2015-12-04 08:39:06 pm

2015-12-04 08:31:20 pm

RNG Gods Guide Me

Thank you for the explanation finally got it but not through traditional means, I used cheat engine to determine how fast I would have to mash considering I mash pretty fast. Your setup or mine, it doesn't matter you bounce back and then press z,x and then get your hands in position to mash z and enter as fast as possible(take your hands off after you get the text, you will auto bounce back). Not frame specific, just 1-3 frames to do it(which is like .3 nano secs). I get it consistently, but i will drop to one hp just in case I fail the skip

TGH

2015-12-05 01:55:34 am

Anime is not real.

Skip is sooooo damn hard hahaha

I'm getting the setup right and can talk to the dogfood easily while basically standing on the trigger, but the cutscene never triggers until I cancel the dialogue. But no matter how quickly I cancel that dialogue and try to start a new one with Z+enter, which I guess would pull off the skip, the game just won't have it. Am I doing something wrong here? Or am I really not fast enough lol

Omgwthdude

Edit history:

Omgwthdude: 2015-12-05 07:24:48 am

2015-12-05 07:21:54 am

RNG Gods Guide Me

Quote from TGH:

Skip is sooooo damn hard hahaha

I'm getting the setup right and can talk to the dogfood easily while basically standing on the trigger, but the cutscene never triggers until I cancel the dialogue. But no matter how quickly I cancel that dialogue and try to start a new one with Z+enter, which I guess would pull off the skip, the game just won't have it. Am I doing something wrong here? Or am I really not fast enough lol

You have to cancel the dialogue, but after you cancel it you have 1-3 frames to mash z and enter, so set it up, and then when the text reaches full length, let go of the movement keys, you dont need them anymore. At that point with the full text in the text box and your hands above z and enter. When you press z/enter to end the text box you have specifically 1-3 frames to hit the dog food again(.3 nano secs). So mash like you life depended on it after you close the text box and hope you hit z or enter within that .3 nano seconds. But to answer your question not mashing fast enough, how are you in first place Kappa

[quote="TGH"]Skip is sooooo damn hard hahaha

I'm getting the setup right and can talk to the dogfood easily while basically standing on the trigger, but the cutscene never triggers until I cancel the dialogue.  But no matter how quickly I cancel that dialogue and try to start a new one with Z+enter, which I guess would pull off the skip, the game just won't have it.  Am I doing something wrong here?  Or am I really not fast enough lol[/quote]

You have to cancel the dialogue, but after you cancel it you have 1-3 frames to mash z and enter, so set it up, and then when the text reaches full length, let go of the movement keys, you dont need them anymore. At that point with the full text in the text box and your hands above z and enter. When you press z/enter to end the text box you have specifically 1-3 frames to hit the dog food again(.3 nano secs).  So mash like you life depended on it after you close the text box and hope you hit z or enter within that .3 nano seconds. But to answer your question not mashing fast enough, how are you in first place Kappa

PinkDreemurr

2015-12-05 09:51:46 am

Wait what you have to get the dog food dialogue twice? I only got it once and I can get the trick pseudo consistently by just timing correctly. A 3 frame window in a 30 FPS game isn't something that really needs to be mashed imo. But hey if it works it works.

TGH

Edit history:

TGH: 2015-12-05 10:45:34 am

2015-12-05 10:44:26 am

Anime is not real.

Okay I can get the skip like 1/5 times now from the mashing technique. Timing it correctly just doesn't seem to work for me.

Quote from Omgwthdude:

(.3 nano secs)

Didn't realize Undertale ran at ten billion frames per second Shocked

A nanosecond is one billionth of a second. 3 frames in a 30 fps game is about 1/10 of a second, or 1 decisecond

Which makes it hard for me to believe that the window for the skip is that big lol

Omgwthdude

Edit history:

Omgwthdude: 2015-12-05 11:51:17 am

2015-12-05 11:26:10 am

RNG Gods Guide Me

I'm dumb i meant .3 secs, I suck. But its is so its 3/10 of a second, if you dont believe me, go to cheat engine set it to .3 speed instead of 1.0 speed, and get it consistently

smellyfeetyouhave

Edit history:

smellyfeetyouhave: 2015-12-05 01:25:12 pm

smellyfeetyouhave: 2015-12-05 01:21:15 pm

2015-12-05 01:20:02 pm

You can get it with double dialog or single dialog. The double dialog method is basically a buffer. You have like three frames after the trigger is activated to hit it, so the double dialog box method makes it so from the moment you close that box, you know what your three frames are.
I'm personally a lot better at doing it unbuffered and just getting the timing right with a single box than with the buffered method of double-dialog boxes, but that's gonna vary depending on person.

I've also noticed that in the wallhump position, buffered is easier. In the non-wallhump position, unbuffered is easier. Could just be me though as so far it seems like getting it down is different for everyone.

Also, the entire lab scene (alphys + quiz + upgrade) is a little over 2 minutes if you go in with 1hp, so if you're fairly good at the trick but aren't perfect at it, you could actually save before the lab and retry the trick multiple times. It's ~20 seconds to quit the game, restart, and try the trick again so you could fail it five times and still save time.

You can get it with double dialog or single dialog. The double dialog method is basically a buffer. You have like three frames after the trigger is activated to hit it, so the double dialog box method makes it so from the moment you close that box, you know what your three frames are.
I'm personally a lot better at doing it unbuffered and just getting the timing right with a single box than with the buffered method of double-dialog boxes, but that's gonna vary depending on person.

I've also noticed that in the wallhump position, buffered is easier. In the non-wallhump position, unbuffered is easier. Could just be me though as so far it seems like getting it down is different for everyone.

Also, the entire lab scene (alphys + quiz + upgrade) is a little over 2 minutes if you go in with 1hp, so if you're fairly good at the trick but aren't perfect at it, you could actually save before the lab and retry the trick multiple times. It's ~20 seconds to quit the game, restart, and try the trick again so you could fail it five times and still save time.

smellyfeetyouhave

2015-12-05 03:51:13 pm

All right so it looks like the non-hump position is much easier as a natural position.

I know TGH was doing it this way, but for anyone else who might have been:

DO NOT PRACTICE THIS TRICK WITH A SAVE INSIDE OF THE LAB

If you change you room to the lab in your save (or use debug mode), you spawn slightly offset from where you'd spawn if you walked into the room. This leads you to get the wallhump position basically always and that's actually the harder position. If you enter the room naturally, you'll basically always get the other position and this is what you'd be doing in an actual run, so practice it this way because it's different.

Omgwthdude

2015-12-05 04:55:48 pm

RNG Gods Guide Me

Note: Smelly is right I was doing ti the way TGH was too, was confused why I never got the wall hump. The non wall hump is just as easy as the wallhump. But the way I do it (left,up, and then right) all I need to do is hit z as I hit right and I'll always clip.

TGH

2015-12-06 03:54:43 pm

Anime is not real.

Quote from Omgwthdude:

I'm dumb i meant .3 secs, I suck. But its is so its 3/10 of a second, if you dont believe me, go to cheat engine set it to .3 speed instead of 1.0 speed, and get it consistently

.3 seconds is ~10 frames

I get it pretty consistently now with about a .1 second gap between the UP and Z inputs. I think it's about a 2-3 frame trick

Also by my time with the DRM-free standalone version of the game, the time lost is actually equal to about 15 seconds if you can quit and restart fast enough

BackSapper

Edit history:

BackSapper: 2015-12-06 10:49:03 pm

2015-12-06 10:45:04 pm

So giving the new dog food skip a try, interacting with the dog food first allows you to get into wall hump and interacting with it within the timeframe is a lot easier than the unbuffered option.

What I found got me a 80% success rate was to interact with the dog food, switch hands and let my left hand do the movement while my right hand hits enter twice in rapid succession. I was also able to do the unbuffered wall hump, but it required a lot more precise timing.

smellyfeetyouhave

Edit history:

smellyfeetyouhave: 2015-12-07 07:49:20 am

smellyfeetyouhave: 2015-12-07 07:45:49 am

2015-12-07 07:43:48 am

Quote from BackSapper:

So giving the new dog food skip a try, interacting with the dog food first allows you to get into wall hump and interacting with it within the timeframe is a lot easier than the unbuffered option.

What I found got me a 80% success rate was to interact with the dog food, switch hands and let my left hand do the movement while my right hand hits enter twice in rapid succession. I was also able to do the unbuffered wall hump, but it required a lot more precise timing.

I'm much better at the non-hump position but some people seem to be much better at the hump-based, double interact version. There really isn't much of a difference in time so it's just going to come down to personal preference for most people.

Random question, what keyboard do you have? I'm on a mechanical keyboard with MX Blues so pressing the key twice with such little delay is much harder than on a rubber-dome keyboard IMO (since those normally actuate when they bottom out while mechs actuate much earlier).

I'd compare the setup to pan strats vs gun strats. Grabbing the pan takes more time than grabbing the gun, but the pan is much easier for some people so for Asgore it's worth the small time loss over the gun if you can consistently get golds with the pan but not with the gun.

Retoasting link again. Discord is now letting me make a permalink so it wont change any more.
https://discord.gg/0fJMcmFC7YN21T6M

[quote="BackSapper"]So giving the new dog food skip a try, interacting with the dog food first allows you to get into wall hump and interacting with it within the timeframe is a lot easier than the unbuffered option.

What I found got me a 80% success rate was to interact with the dog food, switch hands and let my left hand do the movement while my right hand hits enter twice in rapid succession. I was also able to do the unbuffered wall hump, but it required a lot more precise timing.[/quote]

I'm much better at the non-hump position but some people seem to be much better at the hump-based, double interact version. There really isn't much of a difference in time so it's just going to come down to personal preference for most people.

Random question, what keyboard do you have? I'm on a mechanical keyboard with MX Blues so pressing the key twice with such little delay is much harder than on a rubber-dome keyboard IMO (since those normally actuate when they bottom out while mechs actuate much earlier).

I'd compare the setup to pan strats vs gun strats. Grabbing the pan takes more time than grabbing the gun, but the pan is much easier for some people so for Asgore it's worth the small time loss over the gun if you can consistently get golds with the pan but not with the gun.

Retoasting link again. Discord is now letting me make a permalink so it wont change any more.
https://discord.gg/0fJMcmFC7YN21T6M

TGH

2015-12-07 08:09:46 am

Anime is not real.

Not sure if this was detailed or not or if I missed something but

Don't do the lab skip on a genocide or neutral run

It makes you do all the puzzles and gives you Alphys' status updates lmao

Anty-Lemon

2015-12-07 08:25:42 am

Quote from TGH:

Not sure if this was detailed or not or if I missed something but

Don't do the lab skip on a genocide or neutral run

It makes you do all the puzzles and gives you Alphys' status updates lmao

It doesn't make you do all the puzzles, it just makes you do everything up to the first elevator, where you can go to L3 and continue the run normally. Geno guards and Muffet, no Mettaton, no Alphys, and you get Mettaton Neo at the hotel. Until the Core elevator, which doesn't work

TGH

2015-12-07 08:47:00 am

Anime is not real.

Quote from Anty-Lemon:

Quote from TGH:

Not sure if this was detailed or not or if I missed something but

Don't do the lab skip on a genocide or neutral run

It makes you do all the puzzles and gives you Alphys' status updates lmao

It doesn't make you do all the puzzles, it just makes you do everything up to the first elevator, where you can go to L3 and continue the run normally. Geno guards and Muffet, no Mettaton, no Alphys, and you get Mettaton Neo at the hotel. Until the Core elevator, which doesn't work

Yeah

My point was, don't do it lol

BackSapper

2015-12-07 10:44:48 pm

Quote from smellyfeetyouhave:

Quote from BackSapper:

So giving the new dog food skip a try, interacting with the dog food first allows you to get into wall hump and interacting with it within the timeframe is a lot easier than the unbuffered option.

What I found got me a 80% success rate was to interact with the dog food, switch hands and let my left hand do the movement while my right hand hits enter twice in rapid succession. I was also able to do the unbuffered wall hump, but it required a lot more precise timing.

I'm much better at the non-hump position but some people seem to be much better at the hump-based, double interact version. There really isn't much of a difference in time so it's just going to come down to personal preference for most people.

Random question, what keyboard do you have? I'm on a mechanical keyboard with MX Blues so pressing the key twice with such little delay is much harder than on a rubber-dome keyboard IMO (since those normally actuate when they bottom out while mechs actuate much earlier).

I'd compare the setup to pan strats vs gun strats. Grabbing the pan takes more time than grabbing the gun, but the pan is much easier for some people so for Asgore it's worth the small time loss over the gun if you can consistently get golds with the pan but not with the gun.

Retoasting link again. Discord is now letting me make a permalink so it wont change any more.
https://discord.gg/0fJMcmFC7YN21T6M

I'm actually on a Razer Blackwidow with their proprietary switches (they're pretty much blues) and I'm able to do it really easy. Plus I am using my dominant hand for the presses so they can be faster.

[quote="smellyfeetyouhave"][quote="BackSapper"]So giving the new dog food skip a try, interacting with the dog food first allows you to get into wall hump and interacting with it within the timeframe is a lot easier than the unbuffered option.

What I found got me a 80% success rate was to interact with the dog food, switch hands and let my left hand do the movement while my right hand hits enter twice in rapid succession. I was also able to do the unbuffered wall hump, but it required a lot more precise timing.[/quote]

I'm much better at the non-hump position but some people seem to be much better at the hump-based, double interact version. There really isn't much of a difference in time so it's just going to come down to personal preference for most people.

Random question, what keyboard do you have? I'm on a mechanical keyboard with MX Blues so pressing the key twice with such little delay is much harder than on a rubber-dome keyboard IMO (since those normally actuate when they bottom out while mechs actuate much earlier).

I'd compare the setup to pan strats vs gun strats. Grabbing the pan takes more time than grabbing the gun, but the pan is much easier for some people so for Asgore it's worth the small time loss over the gun if you can consistently get golds with the pan but not with the gun.

Retoasting link again. Discord is now letting me make a permalink so it wont change any more.
https://discord.gg/0fJMcmFC7YN21T6M[/quote]

I'm actually on a Razer Blackwidow with their proprietary switches (they're pretty much blues) and I'm able to do it really easy. Plus I am using my dominant hand for the presses so they can be faster.

BackSapper

2015-12-08 02:04:53 am

So I was looking at doing the dog food skip on Genocide, and could be possible to save a second or two in time by playing through the cut scene and having Frisk at the door for a fast exit.

It appears that there is a trigger that activates when Frisk is in genocide routing in Alphys Lab. Though that trigger is not active until Frisk "moves ahead" challenging Mettaton. Once Frisk moves ahead, you can move your character to the trigger, then stop when the camera is panning which will focus the camera on where Frisk's actual body is.

With precise set-up speed and mashing, it should be possible to save time during that cut scene by doing this. My slower speedrunning amounted to me being half a second faster than going through the scene normally. This could possibly be abused when the speed run times start to get very close and competitive, or for a recovery off of a bad RNG roll for encounters(?).

Mylexsi

2015-12-08 05:41:30 am

Quote:

Grabbing the pan takes more time than grabbing the gun

Wait what? How?

Wolfiexe

2015-12-08 10:50:01 am

Runs things speedily

Quote from Mylexsi:

Quote:

Grabbing the pan takes more time than grabbing the gun

Wait what? How?

Going out of the way in Hotlands takes about 15~ seconds or so, whereas the Gun is just to the right of the CORE hotel where you're already going, so fast menuing in the shop means getting the Gun only takes about 8~ seconds or so. Of course this doesn't matter in TPE because you wouldn't have the money for it anyway, but I guess in an optimized AYC run you'd go for the Gun over the Pan. Grin

Anty-Lemon

Edit history:

Anty-Lemon: 2015-12-08 11:57:40 am

2015-12-08 11:57:16 am

Quote from BackSapper:

So I was looking at doing the dog food skip on Genocide, and could be possible to save a second or two in time by playing through the cut scene and having Frisk at the door for a fast exit.

It appears that there is a trigger that activates when Frisk is in genocide routing in Alphys Lab. Though that trigger is not active until Frisk "moves ahead" challenging Mettaton. Once Frisk moves ahead, you can move your character to the trigger, then stop when the camera is panning which will focus the camera on where Frisk's actual body is.

With precise set-up speed and mashing, it should be possible to save time during that cut scene by doing this. My slower speedrunning amounted to me being half a second faster than going through the scene normally. This could possibly be abused when the speed run times start to get very close and competitive, or for a recovery off of a bad RNG roll for encounters(?).

Did you actually disable Alphys's calls, or are you theorycrafting? I fooled around with getting the trigger to work for about am hour and nothing worked

[quote="BackSapper"]So I was looking at doing the dog food skip on Genocide, and could be possible to save a second or two in time by playing through the cut scene and having Frisk at the door for a fast exit.

It appears that there is a trigger that activates when Frisk is in genocide routing in Alphys Lab. Though that trigger is not active until Frisk "moves ahead" challenging Mettaton. Once Frisk moves ahead, you can move your character to the trigger, then stop when the camera is panning which will focus the camera on where Frisk's actual body is.

With precise set-up speed and mashing, it should be possible to save time during that cut scene by doing this. My slower speedrunning amounted to me being half a second faster than going through the scene normally. This could possibly be abused when the speed run times start to get very close and competitive, or for a recovery off of a bad RNG roll for encounters(?).[/quote]
Did you actually disable Alphys's calls, or are you theorycrafting? I fooled around with getting the trigger to work for about am hour and nothing worked

Mylexsi

2015-12-08 02:34:30 pm

Quote from Wolfiexe:

Of course this doesn't matter in TPE because you wouldn't have the money for it anyway, but I guess in an optimized AYC run you'd go for the Gun over the Pan. Grin

Yeah that's the part that confused me ;P

BackSapper

2015-12-08 04:25:37 pm

Quote from Anty-Lemon:

Quote from BackSapper:

So I was looking at doing the dog food skip on Genocide, and could be possible to save a second or two in time by playing through the cut scene and having Frisk at the door for a fast exit.

It appears that there is a trigger that activates when Frisk is in genocide routing in Alphys Lab. Though that trigger is not active until Frisk "moves ahead" challenging Mettaton. Once Frisk moves ahead, you can move your character to the trigger, then stop when the camera is panning which will focus the camera on where Frisk's actual body is.

With precise set-up speed and mashing, it should be possible to save time during that cut scene by doing this. My slower speedrunning amounted to me being half a second faster than going through the scene normally. This could possibly be abused when the speed run times start to get very close and competitive, or for a recovery off of a bad RNG roll for encounters(?).

Did you actually disable Alphys's calls, or are you theorycrafting? I fooled around with getting the trigger to work for about am hour and nothing worked

Multiple times, though I haven't figured out where exactly the trigger is. Even if you play through the scene then exit, you still get the neutral routing.
I have determined that the trigger can only be hit after Frisk moves forward, as you can technically still move even through Frisk is stuck in position.

So I hit the switch, stop when the camera starts panning, and the camera immediately snaps back to where Frisk froze at and you exit.

[quote="Anty-Lemon"][quote="BackSapper"]So I was looking at doing the dog food skip on Genocide, and could be possible to save a second or two in time by playing through the cut scene and having Frisk at the door for a fast exit.

It appears that there is a trigger that activates when Frisk is in genocide routing in Alphys Lab. Though that trigger is not active until Frisk "moves ahead" challenging Mettaton. Once Frisk moves ahead, you can move your character to the trigger, then stop when the camera is panning which will focus the camera on where Frisk's actual body is.

With precise set-up speed and mashing, it should be possible to save time during that cut scene by doing this. My slower speedrunning amounted to me being half a second faster than going through the scene normally. This could possibly be abused when the speed run times start to get very close and competitive, or for a recovery off of a bad RNG roll for encounters(?).[/quote]
Did you actually disable Alphys's calls, or are you theorycrafting? I fooled around with getting the trigger to work for about am hour and nothing worked[/quote]

Multiple times, though I haven't figured out where exactly the trigger is. Even if you play through the scene then exit, you still get the neutral routing.
I have determined that the trigger can only be hit after Frisk moves forward, as you can technically still move even through Frisk is stuck in position.

So I hit the switch, stop when the camera starts panning, and the camera immediately snaps back to where Frisk froze at and you exit.

SeriouslyRidiculous

Edit history:

SeriouslyRidiculous: 2015-12-08 06:24:00 pm

2015-12-08 06:20:34 pm

Not sure if anyone has found this yet, but during the hangout with Papyrus, if you time bringing up the "hangout hud" somewhere right after he pulls out the manual, but before he starts reading it, you can skip a few boxes of text (I.e - He doesn't mention the boxes to bring up the hud, "You've had this up the whole time?!" or something to that extent, which is even longer). Learning the True Pacifist speed route, and it hadn't been the first time it happened.

Don't really have the frame data for it, I do have it recorded though. No keystroke info on it either. ; n ;

Anty-Lemon

Edit history:

Anty-Lemon: 2015-12-08 10:50:53 pm

2015-12-08 10:50:36 pm

Apparently the bandage has a 100% flee chance outside of hard mode

if (flag[hardmode] == 0)
runvalue = random(100) + 10*turn
else
{
if (turn == 0){runvalue = 0}
if (turn >= 1){runvalue = random(100) + 10*(turn-1)}
}

if (instance_exists(272))
runvalue = 100

if (flag[hardmode] == 0)
{
if (armor == 4)
{
runvalue = 100
}
}

if (runvalue > 50)
{
runaway = 1
// running away stuff
}