Undertale

Anty-Lemon

Edit history:

Anty-Lemon: 2015-11-27 12:01:13 am

Anty-Lemon: 2015-11-26 07:09:06 pm

Anty-Lemon: 2015-11-26 07:08:39 pm

Anty-Lemon: 2015-11-26 06:59:44 pm

Anty-Lemon: 2015-11-26 06:59:10 pm

2015-11-26 06:58:43 pm

Waterfall data dump for genocide

Encounter groups:

water1 encounter group
1st encounter: Aaron
2nd: Woshua
3rd: 2 Moldsmal
4+: Random

26.7% Woshua
26.7% 2 Moldsmal
20.0% Aaron
26.7% Woshua + Aaron

water2 encounter group
1st encounter: Temmie
2nd: 2 Moldsmal
3rd: Woshua + Aaron
4th: Moldbygg + Woshua
5+: Random

33.3% Woshua + Aaron
40.0% Moldbygg + Woshua
26.7% Temmie

Room specific data:

2nd bridge seed puzzle - water1
no enemies have been encountered in water1 before:
base steps = 20
max steps = 50
further encounters cannot occur until reentering

on entering:
base steps = 340
max steps = 370

on encounter:
base steps = 340
max steps = 720

1st telescope room - water1
on entering:
base steps = 110
max steps = 140

on encounter:
base steps = 1040
max steps = 1420

Echo flower maze - water1
on entering:
base steps = 360
max steps = 390

on encounter:
base steps = 340
max steps = 720

1st three rooms after Gerson's shop - water2
on entering (genocide):
base steps = 60
max steps = 80

on encounter (genocide):
base steps = 120
max steps = 170

on entering:
base steps = 360
max steps = 390

on encounter:
base steps = 640
max steps = 1020

Fastest strat is to grind in the 1st telescope room, exiting and reentering after each encounter, until 3 left. The last three will be Shyren, Glad Dummy, and Temmie. Temmie should appear before the end of the lantern maze

Waterfall data dump for genocide

[b][size="14"]Encounter groups:[/size][/b]

[b]water1 encounter group[/b]
1st encounter: Aaron
2nd: Woshua
3rd: 2 Moldsmal
4+: Random

26.7% Woshua
26.7% 2 Moldsmal
20.0% Aaron
26.7% Woshua + Aaron

[b]water2 encounter group[/b]
1st encounter: Temmie
2nd: 2 Moldsmal
3rd: Woshua + Aaron
4th: Moldbygg + Woshua
5+: Random

33.3% Woshua + Aaron
40.0% Moldbygg + Woshua
26.7% Temmie

[b][size="14"]Room specific data:[/size][/b]

[b]2nd bridge seed puzzle[/b] - water1
no enemies have been encountered in water1 before:
base steps = 20
max steps = 50
further encounters cannot occur until reentering

on entering:
base steps = 340
max steps = 370

on encounter:
base steps = 340
max steps = 720

[b]1st telescope room[/b] - water1
on entering:
base steps = 110
max steps = 140

on encounter:
base steps = 1040
max steps = 1420

[b]Echo flower maze[/b] - water1
on entering:
base steps = 360
max steps = 390

on encounter:
base steps = 340
max steps = 720

[b]1st three rooms after Gerson's shop[/b] - water2
on entering (genocide):
base steps = 60
max steps = 80

on encounter (genocide):
base steps = 120
max steps = 170

on entering:
base steps = 360
max steps = 390

on encounter:
base steps = 640
max steps = 1020

Fastest strat is to grind in the 1st telescope room, exiting and reentering after each encounter, until 3 left. The last three will be Shyren, Glad Dummy, and Temmie. Temmie should appear before the end of the lantern maze

smellyfeetyouhave

Edit history:

smellyfeetyouhave: 2015-11-26 07:18:06 pm

2015-11-26 07:14:47 pm

Quote from Anty-Lemon:

Quote from Tenebrae:

I'm not understanding why the total population for ruins is 21 when the game only requires 20 area kills. All of the other areas have total populations consistent with their requirement for area kills. Is this because these values are from the demo and not the full game?

Ruins population is 18 in the demo. In the full game it is definitely 20.

He got 21 from a brain fart, counting 0 where he definitely shouldn't have

I was actually going off of the wiki because I was tired. The wiki isn't known to be right though. They were probably including Toriel

Tenebrae

Edit history:

Tenebrae: 2015-11-26 08:04:11 pm

Tenebrae: 2015-11-26 08:02:28 pm

Tenebrae: 2015-11-26 07:56:36 pm

Tenebrae: 2015-11-26 07:53:06 pm

2015-11-26 07:47:47 pm

The same wiki that claimed you could break genocide by not critting Mettaton Neo? I hope they've made some revisions since then.

Quote from Anty-Lemon:

Waterfall data dump for genocide

Can you post the encounter chances for Ruins? Specifically the single Whimsun and Froggit encounters as they are very impactful to each of the routes. The encounters in the three rock room can also be problematic but it's already a 5-way split so knowing the breakdown is less relevant.

Also, is there any way you can find the attack chance for each monster? Things like the Froggit leap attack, Greater Dog's bark attack, and Astigmatism's "Pick On/Don't Pick On" come to mind.

smellyfeetyouhave

2015-11-26 08:33:34 pm

Quote from Tenebrae:

The same wiki that claimed you could break genocide by not critting Mettaton Neo? I hope they've made some revisions since then.

Quote from Anty-Lemon:

Waterfall data dump for genocide

Can you post the encounter chances for Ruins? Specifically the single Whimsun and Froggit encounters as they are very impactful to each of the routes. The encounters in the three rock room can also be problematic but it's already a 5-way split so knowing the breakdown is less relevant.

Also, is there any way you can find the attack chance for each monster? Things like the Froggit leap attack, Greater Dog's bark attack, and Astigmatism's "Pick On/Don't Pick On" come to mind.

The encounters depend on the room.
If you're going with the leaf-pile room, it's base steps 80, random steps 40.
The choice of which enemy it is is that it picks a random number between 0-2. If the number is greater than 1, it's Whimsun, if it's less then or equal to 1, it's Froggit.

You'd need to get the values from Mirrawrs to determine the attack frequency.

[quote="Tenebrae"]The same wiki that claimed you could break genocide by not critting Mettaton Neo? I hope they've made some revisions since then.

[quote="Anty-Lemon"]Waterfall data dump for genocide[/quote]

Can you post the encounter chances for Ruins? Specifically the single Whimsun and Froggit encounters as they are very impactful to each of the routes. The encounters in the three rock room can also be problematic but it's already a 5-way split so knowing the breakdown is less relevant.

Also, is there any way you can find the attack chance for each monster? Things like the Froggit leap attack, Greater Dog's bark attack, and Astigmatism's "Pick On/Don't Pick On" come to mind.[/quote]

The encounters depend on the room.
If you're going with the leaf-pile room, it's base steps 80, random steps 40.
The choice of which enemy it is is that it picks a random number between 0-2. If the number is greater than 1, it's Whimsun, if it's less then or equal to 1, it's Froggit.

You'd need to get the values from Mirrawrs to determine the attack frequency.

Anty-Lemon

Edit history:

Anty-Lemon: 2015-11-26 09:19:11 pm

Anty-Lemon: 2015-11-26 09:16:38 pm

Anty-Lemon: 2015-11-26 09:11:30 pm

Anty-Lemon: 2015-11-26 09:11:16 pm

2015-11-26 09:06:48 pm

Quote from Tenebrae:

Can you post the encounter chances for Ruins? Specifically the single Whimsun and Froggit encounters as they are very impactful to each of the routes. The encounters in the three rock room can also be problematic but it's already a 5-way split so knowing the breakdown is less relevant.

Neutral / genocide: Leaf Pile, mandatory fall, and single rock have the highest chance of encountering a Whimsun, at 50%. Three rocks has the lowest base steps, and also has a 75% chance of encountering multiple enemies
AYC: Four frogs, 6 holes, and all perspective rooms have 40% Loox. Perspective SE, SW, and NW also have a 45% chance of encountering Migosp

ruins1 - Leaf Pile, mandatory fall, single rock
on entering:
base steps = 80
max steps = 120

on encounter:
base steps = 190
max steps = 270

50.0% Froggit
50.0% Whimsun

ruins2 - Leaf path
on entering:
base steps = 260
max steps = 400

on encounter:
base steps = 250
max steps = 480

25.0% Froggit
25.0% Whimsun
25.0% Moldsmal
15.0% Froggit + Whimsun
10.0% 2 Froggit

ruins3 - Three rocks
on entering:
base steps = 60
max steps = 120

on encounter:
base steps = 290
max steps = 390

25.0% Froggit + Whimsun
25.0% Moldsmal
25.0% 3 Moldsmal
15.0% 2 Froggit
10.0% 2 Moldsmal

ruins4 - Perspective SE, SW, NW
on entering:
base steps = 90
max steps = 190

on encounter:
base steps = 120
max steps = 220

20.0% Moldsmal + Migosp
20.0% Migosp + Vegetoid
20.0% Loox
20.0% 2 Vegetoid
15.0% 2 Loox
5.0% Loox + Vegetoid + Migosp

ruins5 - Four frogs, Perspective NE
on entering:
base steps = 120
max steps = 260

on encounter:
base steps = 130
max steps = 290

13.3% Vegetoid
46.7% Moldsmal + Migosp
40% Loox

ruins6 - 6 holes
on entering:
base steps = 140
max steps = 260

on encounter:
base steps = 140
max steps = 350

13.3% Vegetoid
46.7% Moldsmal + Migosp
40% Loox

[quote="Tenebrae"]Can you post the encounter chances for Ruins? Specifically the single Whimsun and Froggit encounters as they are very impactful to each of the routes. The encounters in the three rock room can also be problematic but it's already a 5-way split so knowing the breakdown is less relevant.[/quote]
Neutral / genocide: Leaf Pile, mandatory fall, and single rock have the highest chance of encountering a Whimsun, at 50%. Three rocks has the lowest base steps, and also has a 75% chance of encountering multiple enemies
AYC: Four frogs, 6 holes, and all perspective rooms have 40% Loox. Perspective SE, SW, and NW also have a 45% chance of encountering Migosp

[b]ruins1[/b] - Leaf Pile, mandatory fall, single rock
on entering:
base steps = 80
max steps = 120

on encounter:
base steps = 190
max steps = 270

50.0% Froggit
50.0% Whimsun

[b]ruins2[/b] - Leaf path
on entering:
base steps = 260
max steps = 400

on encounter:
base steps = 250
max steps = 480

25.0% Froggit
25.0% Whimsun
25.0% Moldsmal
15.0% Froggit + Whimsun
10.0% 2 Froggit

[b]ruins3[/b] - Three rocks
on entering:
base steps = 60
max steps = 120

on encounter:
base steps = 290
max steps = 390

25.0% Froggit + Whimsun
25.0% Moldsmal
25.0% 3 Moldsmal
15.0% 2 Froggit
10.0% 2 Moldsmal

[b]ruins4[/b] - Perspective SE, SW, NW
on entering:
base steps = 90
max steps = 190

on encounter:
base steps = 120
max steps = 220

20.0% Moldsmal + Migosp
20.0% Migosp + Vegetoid
20.0% Loox
20.0% 2 Vegetoid
15.0% 2 Loox
5.0% Loox + Vegetoid + Migosp

[b]ruins5[/b] - Four frogs, Perspective NE
on entering:
base steps = 120
max steps = 260

on encounter:
base steps = 130
max steps = 290

13.3% Vegetoid
46.7% Moldsmal + Migosp
40% Loox

[b]ruins6[/b] - 6 holes
on entering:
base steps = 140
max steps = 260

on encounter:
base steps = 140
max steps = 350
 
13.3% Vegetoid
46.7% Moldsmal + Migosp
40% Loox

Anty-Lemon

Edit history:

Anty-Lemon: 2015-11-27 12:00:44 am

2015-11-27 12:00:02 am

WELP. I misread something

The water2 lower base steps are actually triggered by scr_murderlv() >= 10 && global.flag[spared_specific] == 0, and I misread the latter as global.flag[spared_specific] != 0. Probably because the flag is described as being a "redemption" flag which makes the game less desolate

And since it makes base steps equal 60, it turns out the old route is way better lol

Tenebrae

2015-11-27 02:47:19 am

Quote from Anty-Lemon:

WELP. I misread something

The water2 lower base steps are actually triggered by scr_murderlv() >= 10 && global.flag[spared_specific] == 0, and I misread the latter as global.flag[spared_specific] != 0. Probably because the flag is described as being a "redemption" flag which makes the game less desolate

And since it makes base steps equal 60, it turns out the old route is way better lol

I wasn't going to argue with the numbers but I previously tested encounter rates for all 18 monsters in the telescope room and the three rooms after Gerson. In the telescope room: the time ranges from 5 seconds up to almost 35 seconds on the last encounter. Including prerequisite event monsters, the rooms after Gerson start as low as 3 seconds for the Temmie and stop around 21 seconds for the 18th monster.

Thanks for posting all of the numbers. A lot of this is impractical without any way to manipulate it, but at least it's comforting to know TPE runners have a 7.5% chance to get 3 Froggits and any Moldsmal... and a 1.56% chance of getting all of those Froggits to jump.

[quote="Anty-Lemon"]WELP. I misread something

The water2 lower base steps are actually triggered by scr_murderlv() >= 10 && global.flag[spared_specific] == 0, and I misread the latter as global.flag[spared_specific] != 0. Probably because the flag is described as being a "redemption" flag which makes the game less desolate

And since it makes base steps equal 60, it turns out the old route is way better lol[/quote]

I wasn't going to argue with the numbers but I previously tested encounter rates for all 18 monsters in the telescope room and the three rooms after Gerson. In the telescope room: the time ranges from 5 seconds up to almost 35 seconds on the last encounter. Including prerequisite event monsters, the rooms after Gerson start as low as 3 seconds for the Temmie and stop around 21 seconds for the 18th monster.

Thanks for posting all of the numbers. A lot of this is impractical without any way to manipulate it, but at least it's comforting to know TPE runners have a 7.5% chance to get 3 Froggits and any Moldsmal... and a 1.56% chance of getting all of those Froggits to jump.

Mylexsi

Edit history:

Mylexsi: 2015-11-27 08:04:46 am

Mylexsi: 2015-11-27 08:04:14 am

Mylexsi: 2015-11-27 08:03:57 am

Mylexsi: 2015-11-27 08:03:21 am

Mylexsi: 2015-11-27 08:02:02 am

Mylexsi: 2015-11-27 05:36:38 am

Mylexsi: 2015-11-27 05:36:16 am

Mylexsi: 2015-11-27 05:34:59 am

Mylexsi: 2015-11-27 05:30:21 am

Mylexsi: 2015-11-27 05:25:31 am

Mylexsi: 2015-11-27 05:22:45 am

Mylexsi: 2015-11-27 05:22:19 am

Mylexsi: 2015-11-27 05:21:51 am

Mylexsi: 2015-11-27 05:21:04 am

Mylexsi: 2015-11-27 05:19:45 am

2015-11-27 05:18:24 am

Quote from Tenebrae:

but at least it's comforting to know TPE runners have a 7.5% chance to get 3 Froggits and any Moldsmal... and a 1.56% chance of getting all of those Froggits to jump.

Get 2 gold before Napstablook and 5 after. Far more consistent and potentially actually faster;
- The 2g can come from either a Whimsun or Froggit. 1st encounter is always 1 of these, and menuing for both is →ZZ↓Z so you don't even have to check what encounter you have. No RNG here except 1 potential Froggit jump. Skip all other encounters.
- For the 5g you go to the room above Napstablook and hope for a Loox. It's RNG, but far, far less than what you're describing up there(I feel like 45%?), and you're condensing what would've been 3 battles down to 1. 2 if you're relatively unlucky.

As for wasted encounters on the way there, you can get there with just 1, in the 3-rock room(Optimised movement is important for this.). If you want to go full RNG tryhard mode, that encounter can be all Moldsmals, and usually is.

[quote="Tenebrae"] but at least it's comforting to know TPE runners have a 7.5% chance to get 3 Froggits and any Moldsmal... and a 1.56% chance of getting all of those Froggits to jump.
[/quote]

Get 2 gold before Napstablook and 5 after. Far more consistent and potentially actually faster;
- The 2g can come from either a Whimsun or Froggit. 1st encounter is always 1 of these, and menuing for both is →ZZ↓Z so you don't even have to check what encounter you have. No RNG here except 1 potential Froggit jump. Skip all other encounters.
- For the 5g you go to the room above Napstablook and hope for a Loox. It's RNG, but far, [i]far[/i] less than what you're describing up there(I feel like 45%?), and you're condensing what would've been 3 battles down to 1. 2 if you're relatively unlucky.

As for wasted encounters on the way there, you can get there with just 1, in the 3-rock room(Optimised movement is important for this.). If you want to go full RNG tryhard mode, that encounter can be all Moldsmals, and usually is.

Symm

2015-11-27 09:36:06 am

twitch.tv/Symm_

Hi. I was going to speedrun neutral a while back but was put off because my game takes anywhere between 10-20 seconds to start-up (A big pain for Omega Flowey).
I was just wondering if anyone else has a similar problem and any fixes for it? Thanks!

PinkDreemurr

2015-11-27 09:40:48 am

Are you using Steam version or DRM-free version?

Symm

2015-11-27 09:41:44 am

twitch.tv/Symm_

Steam version. I forgot to mention it happens for pretty much all my steam games so I guess its a hardware issue on my part there :/

Omgwthdude

2015-11-27 09:53:02 am

RNG Gods Guide Me

Quote from Symm:

Steam version. I forgot to mention it happens for pretty much all my steam games so I guess its a hardware issue on my part there :/

Get a drm free version mine used to take 8-10 secs to load now it takes 2-4 secs. problem with steam version unless you have an ssd, the game has to load it from steam and then launch. So your computer goes through steam in order to find the game, and then once it has found the game , it launches

PinkDreemurr

2015-11-27 10:36:14 am

You don't have to buy the DRM-free version. I believe there is a way to extract the game from the lone exe in the steam version, but I don't recall how.

smellyfeetyouhave

Edit history:

smellyfeetyouhave: 2015-11-27 01:08:13 pm

2015-11-27 01:06:12 pm

When you launch it it extracts to your /temp dir. You can either find it there and copy it to the desktop (then remove steam_api.dll for even faster loads) or you can use 7zip/winrar/etc to extract it from Undertale.exe in /steamapps/common/undertale/. Remove steam_api.dll as well. Makes it launch without Steam and not have to extract.

smellyfeetyouhave

Edit history:

smellyfeetyouhave: 2015-11-28 12:16:35 pm

smellyfeetyouhave: 2015-11-28 12:16:19 pm

smellyfeetyouhave: 2015-11-27 01:44:41 pm

2015-11-27 01:25:01 pm

New Discord invite link by the way since they die after a day and stuff for people that haven't joined yet.

https://discord.gg/0fJMcmFC7YPRzcdl

Link updated: 11/28/2015

smellyfeetyouhave

Edit history:

smellyfeetyouhave: 2015-11-27 11:39:25 pm

smellyfeetyouhave: 2015-11-27 11:29:46 pm

smellyfeetyouhave: 2015-11-27 11:29:34 pm

smellyfeetyouhave: 2015-11-27 11:28:34 pm

smellyfeetyouhave: 2015-11-27 11:28:06 pm

2015-11-27 11:27:41 pm

Here's a damage chart for ASGORE at LV 16 (Neutral run)

He starts at 10 atk, -30 def.
Pie makes him 9 atk, -35 def.

In pacifist, talking makes him 9 atk, -40 def
In pacifist, talking + pie makes him 8 atk, -45 def.

In the actual fight (tested on the lv 16 one, might be different if lv is 1):
Starts on turn 0, every time he attacks it's incremented by 1.

Once he performs his 20th attack, he loses 10 def (-40)
Once he performs his 21st attack, he loses 15 def (-55)
Once he performs his 22nd attack, he loses 15 def (-70)
Once he performs his 23rd attack (this will ALWAYS be his flashy eyes spear swipe attack), he loses 10 def. (-80)

When his 23rd attack is over, the counter goes back to 20. This means his next attack will count as 21 (-15).

That means:
Once he performs his 24th attack, he loses 15 def (-95)
Once he performs his 25th attack, he loses 10 def (-105)
Once he performs his 26th attack (FLASHY EYES), he loses 10 def (-115)

Go back again

Once he performs his 27th attack, he loses 15 def. There's a cap at -125 though so his actual def lands on (-125)

The cycle of random attack > random attack > flashy eyes goes on until the end/

Here's a damage chart for ASGORE at LV 16 (Neutral run)

[img]http://narry.land/D4Fi6b[/img]

He starts at 10 atk, -30 def.
Pie makes him 9 atk, -35 def.

In pacifist, talking makes him 9 atk, -40 def
In pacifist, talking + pie makes him 8 atk, -45 def.

In the actual fight (tested on the lv 16 one, might be different if lv is 1):
Starts on turn 0, every time he attacks it's incremented by 1.

Once he performs his 20th attack, he loses 10 def (-40)
Once he performs his 21st attack, he loses 15 def (-55)
Once he performs his 22nd attack, he loses 15 def (-70)
Once he performs his 23rd attack (this will ALWAYS be his flashy eyes spear swipe attack), he loses 10 def. (-80)

When his 23rd attack is over, the counter goes back to 20. This means his next attack will count as 21 (-15).

That means:
Once he performs his 24th attack, he loses 15 def (-95)
Once he performs his 25th attack, he loses 10 def (-105)
Once he performs his 26th attack (FLASHY EYES), he loses 10 def (-115)

Go back again

Once he performs his 27th attack, he loses 15 def. There's a cap at -125 though so his actual def lands on (-125)

The cycle of random attack > random attack > flashy eyes goes on until the end/

PinkDreemurr

2015-11-28 12:17:27 am

On that note, for Pacifist run Burnt Pan is actually something that is worth picking up. Getting 3 of the 4 swish-y lines correct puts you above worn dagger, and with practice you could probably shave a few turns off the Asgore fight, at the very least enough to warrant the ~17 second detour to pick up Burnt Pan.

smellyfeetyouhave

Edit history:

smellyfeetyouhave: 2015-11-28 02:57:51 pm

2015-11-28 12:58:51 pm

ASGORE Cycle:

3500 HP. Once his health hits 500 exactly, it's a kill shot. That means if he's at 700 and you deal 250, it's a kill shot. If he's at 700 and you deal 199, it's not a kill shot.

1st attack is double hands quick
2nd attack wavy bands
3rd attack wavy !
4th attack double eye
5th attack 5 hands
6 attack circles
7th attack firestorm
8th attack eyes
9th attack wavy bands
10th attack 5 hands
11th attack circles
12th attack 3 eyes
13th attack firestorm
14th attack wavy !
15th attack circles
16th attack 3 eyes
17th attack 5 hands
18th attack circles
19th attack firestorm
20th attack 4 eyes

21 and 22 are random (could be anything except the eye attack)
23 is 4-eyes
24 and 25 are random (could be anything except the eye attack)
26 is 4-eyes

This repeats until he ded.

Mylexsi

Edit history:

Mylexsi: 2015-11-28 06:29:09 pm

Mylexsi: 2015-11-28 06:29:02 pm

Mylexsi: 2015-11-28 06:18:41 pm

Mylexsi: 2015-11-28 03:53:05 pm

Mylexsi: 2015-11-28 03:49:42 pm

2015-11-28 03:49:00 pm

And I've been doing a lot of Asgore practice with the pan.
Since it takes apparently 16-18s to pick up the pan, and each attack takes something like 6-7s, you need to save 3 turns to break even/save time.
After an hour or 2 of practice, I'm hitting that consistently.

For some realistic damage numbers to measure against. Assumes LV1, used pie, didn't talk. Also assumes you never hit an attack bar in the yellow/red areas:

- Worn Knife does 131-135 dmg.
- Pan 0/4 golds does something like 120-132
- Pan 1-2/4 golds ~= 131-138
- Pan 3/4 (proper gold hit) ~= 171-180 (NOTE: You can get a proper gold hit with 2/4 iff the other 2 hits were accurate enough)
- Pan 4/4 ~= 340-380

Based on damage differences, getting a non-perfect gold hit is equivalent to saving about 2 seconds.
Getting a perfect hit is equivalent to saving about 12s.

So, in the simplest terms, if you get any of the following, then picking up the pan was worth it:

- 9+ non-perfect gold hits
- 1 perfect gold hit and 3+ non-perfect golds
- 2 perfects
(assuming you don't completely fuck up any of your other attacks).

WR takes 23 turns to kill Asgore. I can consistently get under 20 now. Best is ~~18 but i've gotten it several times~~ 15, so this is definitely worth it, and needs grinding.
And on that note, here's a save for your convience: https://www.dropbox.com/s/z3cs6hn3usrl8db/ut_practice_asgore.rar?dl=0
Pie's in the right inventory slot. Has the Worn Dagger (and Empty Gun) if you want to test/practice those, too.
Staind Apron + Pan already equipped.

Also of note, the pan will only give you a gold in one position on the rhythm thingy, and that position is slightly BEFORE the centre.
Don't aim for the middle; instead aim for halfway between the middle and the first green bit.

15-turns video:

And I've been doing a lot of Asgore practice with the pan.
Since it takes apparently 16-18s to pick up the pan, and each attack takes something like 6-7s, you need to save 3 turns to break even/save time.
After an hour or 2 of practice, I'm hitting that consistently.

For some realistic damage numbers to measure against. Assumes LV1, used pie, didn't talk. Also assumes you never hit an attack bar in the yellow/red areas:

- Worn Knife does 131-135 dmg.
- Pan 0/4 golds does something like 120-132
- Pan 1-2/4 golds ~= 131-138
- Pan 3/4 (proper gold hit) ~= 171-180  (NOTE: You can get a proper gold hit with 2/4 iff the other 2 hits were accurate enough)
- Pan 4/4 ~= 340-380

Based on damage differences, getting a non-perfect gold hit is equivalent to saving about 2 seconds.
Getting a perfect hit is equivalent to saving about 12s.

So, in the simplest terms, if you get any of the following, then picking up the pan was worth it:

- 9+ non-perfect gold hits
- 1 perfect gold hit and 3+ non-perfect golds
- 2 perfects
(assuming you don't completely fuck up any of your other attacks).

WR takes 23 turns to kill Asgore. I can consistently get under 20 now. Best is [s]18 but i've gotten it several times[/s] 15, so this is definitely worth it, and needs grinding.
And on that note, here's a save for your convience: https://www.dropbox.com/s/z3cs6hn3usrl8db/ut_practice_asgore.rar?dl=0
Pie's in the right inventory slot. Has the Worn Dagger (and Empty Gun) if you want to test/practice those, too.
Staind Apron + Pan already equipped.

Also of note, the pan will only give you a gold in one position on the rhythm thingy, and that position is slightly BEFORE the centre.
Don't aim for the middle; instead aim for halfway between the middle and the first green bit.

15-turns video: 
https://youtu.be/14hHrL5ULgQ

Tenebrae

2015-11-28 07:17:38 pm

Quote from Mylexsi:

And I've been doing a lot of Asgore practice with the pan.
Since it takes apparently 16-18s to pick up the pan, and each attack takes something like 6-7s, you need to save 3 turns to break even/save time.
After an hour or 2 of practice, I'm hitting that consistently.

Are you including the time saved from not picking up the Worn Dagger? Also, does this mean it's strictly better to get the Empty Gun in AYC considering you'd have more than enough gold for it?

Anty-Lemon

Edit history:

Anty-Lemon: 2015-11-28 07:21:27 pm

2015-11-28 07:19:44 pm

Quote from Tenebrae:

Are you including the time saved from not picking up the Worn Dagger? Also, does this mean it's strictly better to get the Empty Gun in AYC considering you'd have more than enough gold for it?

That's not including the time save. Still about 3 turns, tho

The gun is better overall, and wastes less time to get. If you can afford it, get the hat too

PinkDreemurr

Edit history:

PinkDreemurr: 2015-11-28 07:37:48 pm

2015-11-28 07:21:44 pm

Gun+Hat is MUCH stronger than Pan, wastes less time, and the only reason we don't get it in TPE is because we don't have the gold required. Also, idk if you guys do the same purchasing as TPE, but you could skip a shop if you get hat for mettaton.

EDIT: or ribbon. Ribbon can be skipped too.

Anty-Lemon

Edit history:

Anty-Lemon: 2015-11-28 10:45:34 pm

Anty-Lemon: 2015-11-28 10:45:01 pm

2015-11-28 10:44:49 pm

https://www.desmos.com/calculator/tbzvlig4eu

If my math is right, a perfectly average neutral/genocide Ruins will be fastest if you grind in the single rock room until 12 kills, then grind in the three rock room to 20

Tenebrae

Edit history:

Tenebrae: 2015-11-28 11:12:44 pm

Tenebrae: 2015-11-28 11:11:19 pm

Tenebrae: 2015-11-28 11:09:23 pm

2015-11-28 10:59:00 pm

Quote from Mylexsi:

15-turns video:

Am I miscounting or is this 16 turns: 1 turn for pie and 15 attacks? Either way that's a 40-50 second difference over the previous 23 turn route and almost a minute faster than the WR Asgore fight. Just need to figure out the combined time difference between picking up the Burnt Pan and not picking up the Worn Dagger and this could be a substantial time save.

As for the Empty Gun or Cowboy Hat, TPE runs typically get to the hotel with around 160G so both of them are out for that category.

Anty-Lemon

2015-11-28 11:03:44 pm

Quote from Tenebrae:

As for the Empty Gun or Cowboy Hat, TPE runs typically get to the hotel with around 160G so both of them are out for that category.

I know TPE doesn't even have close to enough. I was talking about AYC