Thief - The Dark Project (normal done, expert done)

2008-12-02 03:08:52 am

Quote:

SaunaChum wasted a little time on the elevator on RTC

If you mean the part where he climbs, it's impossible to climb on the edge of the door. You can see from the video that it's bit higher than the edge above elevator.
For improvement he should find a way to keep another hall door open, or two (you might buy something from shop and block doors with them. But it would be a money run then :))

Poesta

2008-12-02 08:42:40 am

Yarr

I thought this was a money run. You bought two speed potions in Cragscleft but you never got the money for it in Bafford's. Huh?

Rogston

Edit history:

Rogston: 2008-12-02 10:14:09 am

2008-12-02 09:07:28 am

Quote from Poesta:

I thought this was a money run. You bought two speed potions in Cragscleft but you never got the money for it in Bafford's. Huh?

You get a speedpotion at the beginning of Return to the Cathedral so it's not a money run.

And for reminder. These runs are individual , they don't really have connections to each other. Meaning that you can start them in two ways:

Normal run = you don't buy stuff
Money run = You'll buy stuff which help the run (using the previous level maximum money pool as a limit)

Most of the levels buying stuff doesn't affect the speed so that's why it's being used only in four levels.

Poesta

Edit history:

Poesta: 2008-12-03 12:48:45 pm

2008-12-02 01:25:05 pm

Yarr

You don't have to buy anything in RTC, but it could be improved. You can use the holy water to block the door next to the elevator and you can open the third door by 'using' it once instead of thrice.

Edit: I saw Thief is up for verification, but you haven't completed A Keeper's Training yet. Huh?

You have to complete all of the levels when you're doing an IL run.

Poesta

2008-12-03 12:48:56 pm

Yarr

I've just run Escape! in 54 seconds. Video: . Maybe we could do a submission by 3 runners! Grin

Rogston

Edit history:

Rogston: 2008-12-03 01:52:20 pm

2008-12-03 01:18:31 pm

Quote:

Edit: I saw Thief is up for verification, but you haven't completed A Keeper's Training yet.

I don't see why tutorial should be speedrunned and you can skip it by select to start the main campaing right away.

Quote:

I've just run Escape! in 54 seconds. Video: Maybe we could do a submission by 3 runners!

You seem to run a thief gold. There are alot beastmen in the last hallway in TDP. So it isn't eligible as tdp run Tongue

Well I don't see a problem if you'll do a gold level runs, since you should be faster because the beastmen aren't blocking you Cheesy

and that's weird, I have never seen that route...

Edit: had to clean the server bit, so most of the links won't work anymore . And we will see if we can do the escape with that new route of yours, thanks for enlightening us.

Edit Edit: Poesta if you get your hands on TDP, you can improve the escape if you wish. I'm currently ill and we both will be busy until christmas holiday.

[quote]Edit: I saw Thief is up for verification, but you haven't completed A Keeper's Training yet.[/quote]
I don't see why tutorial should be speedrunned and you can skip it by select to start the main campaing right away.

[quote]I've just run Escape! in 54 seconds. Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUBmwu5_TEM. Maybe we could do a submission by 3 runners! [/quote]
You seem to run a thief gold. There are alot beastmen in the last hallway in TDP. So it isn't eligible as tdp run :P
Well I don't see a problem if you'll do a gold level runs, since you should be faster because the beastmen aren't blocking you :D

and that's weird, I have never seen that route...

Edit: had to clean the server bit, so most of the links won't work anymore . And we will see if we can do the escape with that new route of yours, thanks for enlightening us.

Edit Edit: Poesta if you get your hands on TDP, you can improve the escape if you wish. I'm currently ill and we both will be busy until christmas holiday.

Poesta

2008-12-04 02:56:05 am

Yarr

I definitely have TDP. I don't have any of the gold missions, and this is what the box looks like: http://i33.tinypic.com/2cy1uet.jpg. This just took me a lot of tries to get the apebeasts out of the way in the last hallway and the hallway near the exit of the basement. The enemies don't have a fixed position, it's different every time you play it. For example, a lot of times there would be a giant spider around 20 seconds and there would be an apebeast blocking me at 30 econds.

Rogston

2008-12-04 10:53:05 am

Quote:

I definitely have TDP. I don't have any of the gold missions, and this is what the box looks like: http://i33.tinypic.com/2cy1uet.jpg.

Ok, we are using 1.14 version of TDP (fresh install) so I don't know if because of that we saw everytime beastmen...and good job finding that route Smiley

Poesta

Edit history:

Poesta: 2008-12-08 08:41:11 am

2008-12-05 05:51:05 am

Yarr

I haven't thought of that before; I have v1.33. I will try to make a run with v1.14.

Edit: it doesn't matter that my version differs. Quoting from the FAQ page:

Quote:

If a game has been patched and there are multiple versions, it is recommended to use whichever version makes for the fastest run.

Rogston

2009-01-11 08:37:43 am

Finally got gatepushing proof:
but since bigger gatepushes are ultra rare I have only archieved to do a 37s run on bafford.

Still really close on archieving 36s... Roll Eyes

Other updates:
Return to the cathedral - 37s
Escape! - 50s

Poesta

2009-01-11 09:20:08 am

Yarr

Congrats! I don't think the verifiers are done yet so you could let them verify the new runs. Btw, is that Bafford's in you bunnyhopping vid on YouTube?

Rogston

Edit history:

Rogston: 2009-01-11 09:33:19 am

2009-01-11 09:25:41 am

Quote:

Congrats! I don't think the verifiers are done yet so you could let them verify the new runs

Thanks and we will release the new runs on the next "update"

Quote:

Btw, is that Bafford's in you bunnyhopping vid on YouTube?

Yeap, on the roofs.
You can climb there at middle section of the caste (where is the garden).

Poesta

2009-01-13 12:02:15 pm

Yarr

Still waiting... Have you informed Mike yet? He has to know that you've made improvements to some of the missions. Remember that if you want your runs up on the site, they have to be verified.

Rogston

2009-01-13 12:37:18 pm

No, I have not, since the updates aren't ready yeat. It will probably take months until we have finished rest of the maps.

Poesta

Edit history:

Poesta: 2009-01-13 01:12:25 pm

2009-01-13 12:55:23 pm

Yarr

I see. I wonder why it's taking so long to verify 12 levels...

Edit: I've downloaded some crazy Thief videos a while ago but I didn't mention them here. There about NPC jumping and well, stuff. I can't find them on the net anymore but I'm uploading them to FileFront right now. When they're processed, they should appear here (they're the Matroska files). Enjoy.

Rogston

2009-01-13 04:25:36 pm

Quote:

Edit: I've downloaded some crazy Thief videos a while ago but I didn't mention them here. There about NPC jumping and well, stuff. I can't find them on the net anymore but I'm uploading them to FileFront right now. When they're processed, they should appear here (they're the Matroska files). Enjoy.

amazing and the best thing is that it works. Once again thanks for sharing this! I knew something like this was possible but I never really tried to lean on npcs Grin

I don't know if on those videos they have altered the dark engine since he seems to float a bit and when I tried out it never really threw me in air, but instead on a collision towards next wall, poor Garret. Perhaps with more practice...

Possible npc boosting:
Bafford (minimal, at the long hall and the guard with the key)
Cragscleft (minimal, first zombie after elevator)
Bonehoard (Fly all over the place. I hope that burrics and zombies will co-operate)
Assassins (minimal)
The Sword (minimal, possibly only get the sword bit faster)
Cathedral (minimal, zombie boosting if possible)
Lost City (minimal, maybe boost from mantis after getting the earth talisman)
Undercover (minimal)
Cathedral (minimal)
Escape! (huge benefit, possibly fly over the crowds and get boosts)
Bedfellows (huge benefit, Fly from the lower lvl instantly to the topside and maybe boosting (even with carrying the priest))
Maw (Fly all over the place, possibly skip huge parts of the level (tree and lava pits ))

I wonder how many years it will take to do a perfect run... And then someone shows a new trick which allows to walk through walls.

[quote]
Edit: I've downloaded some crazy Thief videos a while ago but I didn't mention them here. There about NPC jumping and well, stuff. I can't find them on the net anymore but I'm uploading them to FileFront right now. When they're processed, they should appear here (they're the Matroska files). Enjoy.[/quote]

amazing and the best thing is that it works. Once again thanks for sharing this! I knew something like this was possible but I never really tried to lean on npcs  ;D

I don't know if on those videos they have altered the dark engine since he seems to float a bit and when I tried out it never really threw me in air, but instead on a collision towards next wall, poor Garret. Perhaps with more practice...

Possible npc boosting:
Bafford (minimal, at the long hall and the guard with the key)
Cragscleft (minimal, first zombie after elevator)
Bonehoard (Fly all over the place. I hope that burrics and zombies will co-operate)
Assassins (minimal)
The Sword (minimal, possibly only get the sword bit faster)
Cathedral (minimal, zombie boosting if possible)
Lost City (minimal, maybe boost from mantis after getting the earth talisman)
Undercover (minimal)
Cathedral (minimal)
Escape! (huge benefit, possibly fly over the crowds and get boosts)
Bedfellows (huge benefit, Fly from the lower lvl instantly to the topside and maybe boosting (even with carrying the priest))
Maw (Fly all over the place, possibly skip huge parts of the level (tree and lava pits ))

I wonder how many years it will take to do a perfect run... And then someone shows a new trick which allows to walk through walls.

Poesta

2009-01-14 06:04:17 am

Yarr

Actually guards can wlak through walls. Tongue

I've recorded this on the second mission of Thief 2. Too bad, NPC boosting doesn't work in Thief 2, just like bunnyhopping. Cry

There is said to be a rare glitch in at least Thief 2 which can be really good for speedrunning: sometimes the effect of speed potions doesn't wear off, but I don't know how to reproduce this and it never happened to me.

Rogston

Edit history:

Rogston: 2009-01-14 06:35:33 am

2009-01-14 06:27:46 am

Quote:

sometimes the effect of speed potions doesn't wear off

I've heared from that glitch aswell. It should be possible also in original thief but atleast I have never seen one happening.

Also after testing the npc boosting , it only works in few situations
- Npc needs to be completely still, otherwise it doesn't work very well. Because of the mechanism of leaning , turning faster generates greater force which will cause character to be pushed away from the npc. If the npc moves, the force is smaller resulting either altered direction or speed. Often fatal, especially indoors.
- You can't lean when jumping (breaks bunnyhopping)
- Best way to use this is to boost up , just boosting speed is not practical since it cannot be done while bunnying and the direction is hard to manage.

This leaves only few maps which really benefit from this:
Bonehoard (boost from zombies up to the top without climbing and saves the speedpotion)
The sword (boost to get the sword faster)
Bedfellows (boost to the upper level after grabbing the key)
Maw (boost the tree part and the lavapits)

[quote]sometimes the effect of speed potions doesn't wear off[/quote]
I've heared from that glitch aswell. It should be possible also in original thief but atleast I have never seen one happening.

Also after testing the npc boosting , it only works in few situations
 - Npc needs to be completely still, otherwise it doesn't work very well. Because of the mechanism of leaning , turning faster generates greater force which will cause character to be pushed away from the npc. If the npc moves, the force is smaller resulting either altered direction or speed. Often fatal, especially indoors.
 - You can't lean when jumping (breaks bunnyhopping)
 - Best way to use this is to boost up , just boosting speed is not practical since it cannot be done while bunnying and the direction is hard to manage.

This leaves only few maps which really benefit from this:
 Bonehoard (boost from zombies up to the top without climbing and saves the speedpotion)
 The sword (boost to get the sword faster)
 Bedfellows (boost to the upper level after grabbing the key)
 Maw (boost the tree part and the lavapits)

Poesta

2009-01-14 07:50:52 am

Yarr

You're forgetting the most obvious one; Bafford's. As you can see in video nr 4, it might be possible to launch yourself into the garden and then use the secret passage. Just a thought: could you do the Maw even faster by doing it on expert?

Rogston

2009-01-14 11:51:57 am

Quote:

You're forgetting the most obvious one; Bafford's

It's impossible, there is a huge "skyblock" which doesn't allow a straight launch to the garden. I also noticed that this boosting also works on other "models" which appear in the game, for example the street lamps in bafford.

Poesta

2009-01-14 12:12:50 pm

Yarr

Yeah so what about the Maw? It makes sense to me that the ritual would be shorter on the higher difficulties but I haven't tried it out myself.

Rogston

2009-01-15 05:02:07 am

Quote:

Yeah so what about the Maw? It makes sense to me that the ritual would be shorter on the higher difficulties but I haven't tried it out myself.

It should be same lenght on all difficulties.

Rogston

2009-04-05 10:33:20 am

I started already bit with Thief the dark project expert speedrunning:

bafford 1m 29s
cragscleft 7m 21s (alot mistakes, I assume to get under 7 min)

I got inspired by the fact that alot people are interested from my TDP normal run and none has ever completed expert one. Too bad that my recent reinstalled windows causes desync audio to videos which are captured with fraps. Both times I have used windows xp pro , same version from fraps, same audio/video drivers. I also tried removing desync using VirtualDub but with no success. Audio desync occurs also in other games I have tried (Raven Shield, Diablo2 and Starcraft).

Ugm

2009-04-06 01:48:03 am

Vae Victus!

Is it audio that lags or is it the vid? Do you have black frames/no sound at the end of the recording? Does it happen when you lower your recording framerate/resolution too?

Rogston

2009-04-06 03:10:46 am

Quote:

Is it audio that lags or is it the vid?

Im not exactly sure, im guessing that the video is slowly getting behind audio.

Quote:

Do you have black frames/no sound at the end of the recording?

No blackframes and audio records ok.

Quote:

Does it happen when you lower your recording framerate/resolution too?

Changing resolution or framerate doesn't remove desync.

here is example: