Thief - The Dark Project (normal done, expert done)

2009-04-06 03:43:01 am

Vae Victus!

It's like the man who commented on your YT vid - progressive audio desync. It means that it gets more and more out of sync. Basically you can hear no audio just before the end of the level. It's because when you finish the level, audio and video is cut off at the same time but with your delayed video it last some time longer than the sound. Simple operation of streching the audio in Audacity or any editor without changing the pitch should result in perfect sync. It's all in SDA KB.

Rogston

2009-04-06 05:44:12 am

After editing audio with audacity there is no desync. Only problem now is that the video timing is off. The game states that run was 1:29s but the video shows that it lasted 1:31.267 . Difference in fact is almost the time of desync 29+desync=31.467 or 31.267-desync=28.8 . This will probably cause some trouble with verification Undecided

Ugm

2009-04-06 06:51:50 am

Vae Victus!

I thought of that - if the video takes longer than in real then the timing is corrupted. Of course you could shorten the vid to the lenght of an audio but that would be even more difficult to verify. You certainly have to settle this recording case. Maybe your hard drive is causing the problem?

Rogston

2009-04-06 07:17:37 am

Quote:

Maybe your hard drive is causing the problem?

I did thief normal run with same hardware and plenty other video capturing. Only that now I have different version of windows xp installed and Im not eager to reinstall since everything else is working smoothly. Well I can meanwhile just train the maps.

Poesta

2009-04-06 08:17:28 am

Yarr

Quote from Rogston:

After editing audio with audacity there is no desync. Only problem now is that the video timing is off. The game states that run was 1:29s but the video shows that it lasted 1:31.267 . Difference in fact is almost the time of desync 29+desync=31.467 or 31.267-desync=28.8 . This will probably cause some trouble with verification Undecided

The timer is dependent on the framerate. It will run faster with a higher framerate but the game will also run faster so this should be no problem. However, sounds and conversations take the same amount of real time so that can be a problem if you have to wait for a conversation like in Eavesdropping in Thief 2 or the conversation at the beginning of Assassins. Iirc you're recording at 60 fps, maybe Assassins could be done a little quicker if you record at 30 fps.

Rogston

2009-04-07 12:48:46 am

Quote:

The timer is dependent on the framerate. It will run faster with a higher framerate but the game will also run faster so this should be no problem.

The problem isn't in the game. It works when recording fraps around 58-60fps (if there isn't horrendous amounths of particles) but the video afterwards is desync and bruised. If the audio would be only problem then everything would be fine but the video is so messed that I don't like to do any running and lose few precious seconds. Somehow fraps fails to do good recording and this happens on every game I have tried recording.

Timer shows the exact time of the run and in save files there is even more precise value (but I haven't looked for it yeat). But proving that based on faulty timed video and audio desync won't be easy task.

Poesta

2009-04-07 04:13:39 am

Yarr

Try updating your video drivers.

Rogston

Edit history:

Rogston: 2009-04-07 08:39:52 am

2009-04-07 05:09:17 am

I did, I also checked all installed hardware and tried disabling unnecessary drivers. No affect at all :-\. I probably have to install the other winxp and try out with that.

Edit: Reinstalled windows, desyncs still. Now I don't have any idea what is going on Angry

Edit edit: is there any other recording software that I should try out?

Poesta

2009-04-07 09:21:20 am

Yarr

I've tried ZD Soft Game Recorder before I tried Fraps. It lets you choose your own video codec (I used lagarith, a lossless codec) and it also lets you record the menu screens and books. It didn't run as smoothly as Fraps did so I'm using Fraps for my run, but I think that's not an issue with your rig. Wink

I just looked at their site and it seems like they merged a few of their different recording programs into one program called just ZD Recorder. I haven't had any experience with it, but you could try it out.

Rogston

Edit history:

Rogston: 2009-04-07 11:46:57 am

2009-04-07 09:54:06 am

Now that I have tried the ZD recorder:

Quote:

It lets you choose your own video codec

No this one doesn't which results horrid quality but no desync with audio or video timing.

Quote:

it also lets you record the menu screens and books

Yeap but each time it gets into menu (changes resolution) it cancels the recording. It will be impossible to runs with ZD recorder in those maps which you need to read stuff.

Thus ZD recorder is a failure but shows that the problems were in fraps rather than drivers or hardware.

Why fraps why? Cry

Edit: tried also capturing with VirtualDub , but the result was similar except very hilarious.

Sid

2009-04-07 01:35:19 pm

Now it's Sui^^

Have you installed any programs to Tweak your CPU, mobo or GPU?
I've had a big problems with recording after installing some programs that were on my mobo CD.

Rogston

2009-04-07 02:12:03 pm

No I haven't installed tweaks or unofficial drivers. This is very strange indeed since fraps has worked the last two years flawlessly and suddenly it just stopped. It almost feels like the economical crisis is degrading the software Tongue

I don't really even overclock my system, since usually it just fails to work at my requirements (12h, full load, etc). I just buy a system powerful enough to do everything I need without manipulating it.

Sid

2009-04-07 03:01:42 pm

Now it's Sui^^

Very strange... the last thing I know that can cause problems is multi-stream recording on Realtek HD, but it's usually turned off (default configuration) Undecided

Rogston

2009-04-14 01:01:01 pm

After several testing I've noticed that audio isn't desync so the real problem is the video. Then only fitting the video with the audio should be the solution except im not sure if it ok for verifying. I can prove the time with save files and screenshots.

Ugm

2009-04-15 01:48:13 am

Vae Victus!

Longer video means duplicate frames... somewhere. If you'll shorten it by streching you may ruin the smoothness because it'll delete certain frames yet with remaining duplicates. So choppy and laggy video at the same time. However we may not notice it, it depends on the material. Anyway verifying in SDA terms would be very hard (longer video would have to be verified I suppose).

Rogston

2009-04-15 04:19:55 am

I did a longer playthrough as a test. game time is 15m 6s and video time is 15m 43s.

Quote:

Longer video means duplicate frames

Not only that, fraps somehow manages to lag the video end of a raw video part (because it needs to another file) and it causes 8-10s lag. I can't do nothing when it is lagging but the game counter goes on. So the longer the capture the more dublicate frames I will have and lag.

Editing longer segments would be difficult and I am out of ideas Undecided

I'll probably have to do a thread to tech support.

Ghoti

2009-05-08 07:52:17 pm

Currently occupying the grey area.

Is someone following us? Must be just the wind... stop. is someone there? Cheesy

what a pair of plonkers.

Rogston

2009-07-21 10:15:10 am

Update:

Me and SaunaChum are again improving normal tdp runs and of course I am also working with the expert run. We have been looking closely at the problems and possible improvements on every map. Currently improved:

Undercover - SaunaChum - 2:22 (10s improvement)

Poesta

2009-07-21 04:00:37 pm

Yarr

I would have posted more, but:

Grin

SaunaChum

Edit history:

SaunaChum: 2009-09-05 03:25:50 am

2009-08-02 03:19:11 am

Well, here goes an update while Rogston is gone somewhere in southern Finland.
Rogston hasn't been able to record anything properly because of his problems with his computer though he has found some nice tricks for his maps.
But I have been enhancing my part and recorded them.

Lost City - SaunaChum - 4:59 - (26 seconds)
-A new route after getting the water talisman and more bunnyhopping
Undercover - SaunaChum - 2:20 (12 seconds)
-More straight route because I use fire arrow to open the door in the cellar, also resolution switch to 640x480 which makes scroll reading faster
Return to Cathedral - SaunaChum - 0:36 (1 second)
-Just a slightly better run
Escape - SaunaChum - 0:49 (1 second again)
-Again a slightly better run

All in all that's 40 seconds improvement now.

EDIT: links to youtube

Well, here goes an update while Rogston is gone somewhere in southern Finland.
Rogston hasn't been able to record anything properly because of his problems with his computer though he has found some nice tricks for his maps. 
But I have been enhancing my part and recorded them.

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK-_Ikqt_-s]Lost City - SaunaChum - 4:59 [/url] - (26 seconds)
 -A new route after getting the water talisman and more bunnyhopping
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnplmAuUhPw]Undercover - SaunaChum - 2:20 [/url] (12 seconds)
 -More straight route because I use fire arrow to open the door in the cellar, also resolution switch to 640x480 which makes scroll reading faster
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3m4qlooUDY]Return to Cathedral - SaunaChum -  0:36 [/url] (1 second)
 -Just a slightly better run
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIPFuj6-mfw]Escape - SaunaChum - 0:49 [/url] (1 second again)
 -Again a slightly better run

All in all that's 40 seconds improvement now.

EDIT: links to youtube

Rogston

Edit history:

Rogston: 2009-09-04 03:34:40 am

2009-09-03 03:36:36 am

Improvements:
Training - 1m 39s - Rogston (1m 46s old record by Luthien)
Break from Cragscleft Prison - 2m 43s - Rogston (-3s from my old record)
Down in the Bonehoard - 2m 26s - Rogston (-2s from my old record)
Assassins - 4m 26s - Rogston (-12s from my old record)
Making total of 57s of improvement.

Expect alot zombie action.

Rogston

2009-09-06 02:11:32 am

The update is now ready to be verified! Smiley

Rogston

Edit history:

Rogston: 2009-11-12 05:52:27 am

2009-11-12 05:36:51 am

Do you hate the imprecise timer of the dark engine? At least I do and I have been researching possibilities to do better timing:

The save files ,which dark engine creates, contain a variable which stores the time in milliseconds (whoah!). I have been programming to do a easy to use
application to grab that time from the save file and present it in readable form. The application is quiet crude at the moment and I would like to find if it works on different
versions of thief (tdp,gold,metal age). I use tdp v1.14 which is the retail and the application works fine:

>thieftimer.exe 1.sav DrSTime
Thief timer -beta by: Rogston
0 m 49,17 s

So if you want to help , grab the attachment and try out it on your version of thief. Later report your findings here and if you had problems please attach your used save file.

Also I am planning to start doing tdp expert run on christmas holiday.

edit: one more example of using the program:

C:\Users\Rogston\Desktop\ohjelmointi>thieftimer.exe E:/Thief/SAVES/game0001.sav
Thief timer -beta by: Rogston
Second parameter not given. Looking out DrSTime...
4 m 47,180 s

Do you hate the imprecise timer of the dark engine? At least I do and I have been researching possibilities to do better timing:

The save files ,which dark engine creates, contain a variable which stores the time in milliseconds (whoah!). I have been programming to do a easy to use
application to grab that time from the save file and present it in readable form. The application is quiet crude at the moment and I would like to find if it works on different
versions of thief (tdp,gold,metal age). I use tdp v1.14 which is the retail and the application works fine:

>thieftimer.exe 1.sav DrSTime
Thief timer -beta by: Rogston
0 m 49,17 s

So if you want to help , grab the attachment and try out it on your version of thief. Later report your findings here and if you had problems please attach your used save file.

Also I am planning to start doing tdp expert run on christmas holiday.

edit: one more example of using the program:

C:\Users\Rogston\Desktop\ohjelmointi>thieftimer.exe E:/Thief/SAVES/game0001.sav
Thief timer -beta by: Rogston
Second parameter not given. Looking out DrSTime...
4 m 47,180 s

Attachment:

thieftimer.exe

Poesta

2009-11-25 04:38:10 pm

Yarr

Nice. It also works with TMA v1.18 and Thief Gold v1.37.

The save name always appears at the same position (0x128 with a maximum length of 32 bytes/characters), so you could let it generate a list of all the save names in the directory, together with the current times of the corresponding missions.

Rogston

2009-11-26 12:29:10 am

Thanks for testing it!

Yeah I had similar idea to automatically generate list from default directory path and showing the mission name. Somehow I lost the source code (not the first time, doh!) while cleaning my desktop. No worries though, I will code it in c++ instead of c this time. Also I'll try to find if there is more useful information on those save files.