Teslagrad

2014-07-23 02:25:12 pm

I don't know how to make the glitch happen, but I think I know how to tell when it happens. If the first soldier at the beginning of the game is running towards you as get to the boxes, then it's happened.

MisterJack112

2014-07-25 07:33:42 am

I've make a new NG+ run for take a little breack with the classic any% (I've make this time after 2-3 hours playing lol). My last run in 21:41 is completely outdated with all the new strats.
The run is not perfect, mainly the ridiculus dead at 12:32, I've missed my jump before blink.
2-3 other mistake but the run is pretty good, NG+ is not the most important for me. And the king was in 3 pattern, that wasn't expected.
I think sub 20 is possible with an awsome run ... and an awsome king. Ahhh RNG Smiley

Enjoy.

BoursinBurger

Edit history:

BoursinBurger: 2014-07-27 09:45:39 am

BoursinBurger: 2014-07-27 09:43:23 am

2014-07-27 09:39:53 am

Hello folks!

Arturrian got me interested in this game and I have been looking for time savers as I play.
Furthermore, I have investigated the possibility of using Hourglass to make a TAS of Teslagrad.
Unfortunately I have found it is currently impossible. The game's API for input is non-standard, and therefore Hourglass cannot capture game input.
The details are outlined here: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15282

We have confirmed that the scale skip IS possible from a new game, but for some reason is much harder to execute than from loading a save. The timing seems much tighter for some reason.
When the timing is perfect, you can avoid the ledge grab altogether:

I also optimized a trick I saw in Truljin's video - riding the slug across the beam instead of making the slug drag down the red bar. This saves about 2 seconds:

Moatman

Edit history:

Moatman: 2014-07-27 09:59:53 pm

2014-07-27 06:20:13 pm

So I was practicing the slug jump, and I accidentally got the slug stuck. If you move on the beam when the slug is under it, you bounce around.
I don't think this is very useful for a run, but the bit at the end might be. After jumping around on it for a while, the beam disappeared. Lotta stuff could be skipped if that happens in other areas.

e: just got sub-35 (34:42). Taking my pb down a minute a night is nice. I can go another minute and a half down by not dying to Oleg. There are so many timesavers I can get and miss

Arturrian

2014-08-01 03:57:59 pm

So... I found out a way to duplicate the glitch where enemies can't see you. I also finally got around to making a video about it. I don't know if this glitch will be useful at all, and it could even potentially cause some soft locks (Faradeus is the first to come to mind). Have fun experimenting with it! Smiley

MisterJack112

Edit history:

MisterJack112: 2014-08-03 05:50:12 am

2014-08-03 05:44:11 am

This is really interessant. I've try, if you just reload the checkpoint after fall in the whole that work too. I make it and I'm go to Faradeus and he dosn't crash but I don't think this is really usefull ... for the moment.

And yes we can make the scale trick with a new game indeed. But this is so hard, the hardest trick in the game for me. A pixel-perfect/RNG trick. I don't really understand when it passes. I have maybe 5% chance of success lol. I don't try to make it when I run.

I've find a new trick. Not so easy to make, I still reflected if I make it in run. If I failit once (twince maximum) this is the reset for me ...
You should to make it with the cloak (hold blue) for give you an idea. Don't save a lot of time but really cool to make and watch if it succeeded the first time.

Moatman

Edit history:

Moatman: 2014-08-04 12:06:44 am

Moatman: 2014-08-03 10:46:02 pm

Moatman: 2014-08-03 10:35:45 pm

Moatman: 2014-08-03 10:30:51 pm

Moatman: 2014-08-03 10:29:32 pm

Moatman: 2014-08-03 10:28:21 pm

Moatman: 2014-08-03 10:27:46 pm

Moatman: 2014-08-03 10:27:01 pm

2014-08-03 10:26:42 pm

So it turns out that you can get stuck on Faradeus and be completely safe during the bomb egg phase.
http://i.imgur.com/WjtpADS.png (the picture ended up being huge when I used image tags)

e: It also turns out that you fall if you stand there for too long.
e2: it might also be possible to clip down through the fight, but I'm not sure
e3: and now I just clipped through the floor and died. This fight does weird things if you blink into faradeus during the smash attack
e4: If you set up right, you can get in a double hit

MisterJack112

2014-08-04 06:12:00 am

Each time you should return to faradeus since the beginning ?
I've try and if I stay in the Faradeus cage in the first pattern the lightning killed me.
The egg bird killed you if you tuch them ? And the wall of light ?

I also wonder if orb can tuch you ...

So many thing to test for know if we can save time somewhere. But this is not totaly brocken if only we can passes throught all the "beam light" (if you know what I mean ^^).

But thanks for your search Smiley

Moatman

Edit history:

Moatman: 2014-08-04 08:08:31 pm

Moatman: 2014-08-04 08:08:15 pm

2014-08-04 08:04:29 pm

Here's a video of what I mean:

Also looks like it's possible to get stuck in the floor of the middle pillar, don't know what I can do with that yet. You can jump out and be on solid ground
e: and yeah, if you get yourself into faradeus, you dodge the wall and can hit as soon as it becomes vulnerable

MisterJack112

Edit history:

MisterJack112: 2014-08-05 07:17:33 am

MisterJack112: 2014-08-05 07:17:17 am

2014-08-05 07:12:57 am

Oh sorry first I had understood you make a glitch to Faradeus with the Arturrian's glitch.
Awsome glitch. All the normals cut is found (maybe not), we now find all the weird stuff. ^^

You say we can make a double hit ? The fight is shorter ? How did you get that ?

I've try 1 hour I have make the glitch many time and try some random thing but nothing has work. We can just blink trought the cage as soon as it becomes vulnerable like you say but this is very risky just for that.
In a fight I have make the glitch the 2 first time for hit Faradeus as soon as possible and the 3rd I've make by the normal way. I don't know how much time that save for each pattern. Maybe 2-3 seconde. But you need a really constant setup.

I've find a glitch like this some day ago. I've try but I didn't get it, that was on the alpha game. The save spot work by the way.

MisterJack112

2014-08-08 06:20:59 am

... close enough

We can save like 5-6 second on the fight if it's make it well on the 3 pattern ... not so much.

MisterJack112

Edit history:

MisterJack112: 2014-08-20 12:39:03 pm

2014-08-20 12:36:09 pm

Today a new PB in any% kill by the king in 8 patterns.
Enter in the boss room : - 20 second
Out : +10 second

Thanks RNG.

New shortcut by the way.

BoursinBurger

2014-08-20 04:17:53 pm

Wow! Does this change the Any% routing now that Scroll 20 is basically in-route?

Elesder

Edit history:

Elesder: 2014-08-20 06:17:40 pm

2014-08-20 06:12:50 pm

Hi there, i'm in running this game, any% for now (shitty pb at 36:04, sob is 31:28).
Just a little tip for training purpose.
you can go to C:\Users\*USERNAME*\AppData\LocalLow\Rain\Teslagrad and find directories named 1 to 6 corresponding to the 6 slots of the save in the game.
If you put the file in there in read only mode (right click, properties, check read only), then the game will send you some save problem messages but will not erase the save and run normaly.
So you can train a room, if you passed the next checkpoint, if yuou die after it reset as usual but if you reset the game you start at your old saved spot.
Hope it help Wink

MisterJack112

Edit history:

MisterJack112: 2014-08-21 06:19:55 am

2014-08-21 03:50:40 am

In any% I don't think I will change my route. The problem is if I change a scroll it's a scroll before this one, so if I miss it this is the reset. If I change a scroll after this one I can miss it and take the old one but I don't see what scroll I can change after this one ... maybe the scroll just before orb boss. So if I miss it I have a plan B but the time saved is ridiculous (maybe 3-4 seconde). Even if I we change a scroll before we don't save more time in fact.
I don't make some strat (scale trick, trial trick and faradeus trick). If I make all the strat I don't make (with this one now) I can save 15 seconde ... but a lot a reset. Now I just wanna make a really good run with my acutal road and I see after that. I've miss a 28:30 yesterday and that's not bad at all.

The must interessant is in 100%, you can fail 4 time you don't loose time. But this is really hard trick. Each time I'm really close but I don't take it (but I don't die, I can go on the left).

BoursinBurger

2014-08-21 05:19:29 am

Let's assume you're really awesome and you can get Scroll 20 every time. Because with enough practice you WILL be that awesome. Smiley

Taking out a slow scroll and replacing it with #20, it looks like the scroll to skip would be #17. That would save about 10 seconds.

The reason why I'm seeking the optimal route is because in the future we may be able to TAS this game. In that case reflexes won't matter. Then we can really break this game.
I have been working on organizing the two main routes, with video demonstrations of all the skips that have been found.
Here it is: https://docs.google.com/document/d/13bE__7dYECG8WWok1EQ1Vso51EtKdkTQshzFQSueeOo/edit?usp=sharing

MisterJack112

Edit history:

MisterJack112: 2014-08-21 10:12:40 am

2014-08-21 06:19:20 am

I'm definitly interest to TAS this game since I've start running.
In your TASvideo link you have send they said "The game isn't receiving any input". They just can"t move or ?

My frient "PrettyFrenchMan" has try to start TAS this game some month ago and he can move but can't record it (he has never TAS a game he has just try like that) so I don't know what they said by "The game isn't receiving any input".

But one day we can definitly TAS this game. Maybe we can make it to sereval person (They say it like that? I think sometimes my sentence are wierd sorry I'm not an english guy).

Don't forgot the Feradeus trick that saves some seconde. Your road is a good start. I haven't think about the 17th scroll. You need to go in the room on the right and return on the left for refresh the spider. Maybe the 5th or 8th (before and after the first boss). The time saved is really close each time I think.

Edit : I've try to lauch the game with Hourglass that dosn't work, I'm lost in the software lol
If they say that dosn't work I trust them ^^

I'm definitly interest to TAS this game since I've start running.
In your TASvideo link you have send they said "The game isn't receiving any input". They just can"t move or ?

My frient "PrettyFrenchMan" has try to start TAS this game some month ago and he can move but can't record it (he has never TAS a game he has just try like that) so I don't know what they said by "The game isn't receiving any input".

But one day we can definitly TAS this game. Maybe we can make it to sereval person (They say it like that? I think sometimes my sentence are wierd sorry I'm not an english guy).

Don't forgot the Feradeus trick that saves some seconde. Your road is a good start. I haven't think about the 17th scroll. You need to go in the room on the right and return on the left for refresh the spider. Maybe the 5th or 8th (before and after the first boss). The time saved is really close each time I think.

Edit : I've try to lauch the game with Hourglass that dosn't work, I'm lost in the software lol
If they say that dosn't work I trust them ^^

Arturrian

2014-08-21 04:01:52 pm

Quote from MisterJack112:

Today a new PB in any% kill by the king in 8 patterns.
Enter in the boss room : - 20 second
Out : +10 second

Thanks RNG.

New shortcut by the way.

That scroll 20 skip is amazing! I've started practicing it, and it's definitely the hardest trick in the game (outside maybe the scale). I've gotten to a point where I can get it about 1 out of 10 tries. Thanks for the great find, Jack!

Quote from Elesder:

Hi there, i'm in running this game, any% for now (shitty pb at 36:04, sob is 31:28).
Just a little tip for training purpose.
you can go to C:\Users\*USERNAME*\AppData\LocalLow\Rain\Teslagrad and find directories named 1 to 6 corresponding to the 6 slots of the save in the game.
If you put the file in there in read only mode (right click, properties, check read only), then the game will send you some save problem messages but will not erase the save and run normaly.
So you can train a room, if you passed the next checkpoint, if yuou die after it reset as usual but if you reset the game you start at your old saved spot.
Hope it help Wink

Thanks for this, Elesder. I'm planning on making a bunch of practice saves tonight. Cheesy

[quote="MisterJack112"]Today a new PB in any% kill by the king in 8 patterns. 
Enter in the boss room : - 20 second
Out : +10 second

Thanks RNG.

New shortcut by the way.[/quote]

That scroll 20 skip is amazing!  I've started practicing it, and it's definitely the hardest trick in the game (outside maybe the scale).  I've gotten to a point where I can get it about 1 out of 10 tries.  Thanks for the great find, Jack!

[quote="Elesder"]Hi there, i'm in running this game, any% for now (shitty pb at 36:04, sob is 31:28).
Just a little tip for training purpose.
you can go to C:\Users\*USERNAME*\AppData\LocalLow\Rain\Teslagrad and find directories named 1 to 6 corresponding to the 6 slots of the save in the game.
If you put the file in there in read only mode (right click, properties, check read only), then the game will send you some save problem messages but will not erase the save and run normaly.
So you can train a room, if you passed the next checkpoint, if yuou die after it reset as usual but if you reset the game you start at your old saved spot.
Hope it help ;)[/quote]

Thanks for this, Elesder.  I'm planning on making a bunch of practice saves tonight.  :D

BoursinBurger

2014-08-21 06:38:56 pm

Quote from MisterJack112:

I'm definitly interest to TAS this game since I've start running.
In your TASvideo link you have send they said "The game isn't receiving any input". They just can"t move or ?

Correct. Hourglass acts as a middleman between the game and the player. It captures the player's input, records it, then feeds it to the game via API.
Teslagrad, however, uses an API called XInput. Hourglass does not support XInput, so when running Teslagrad in Hourglass, the player's keypresses never make it to the game. You can't even get into the menu to start a new game.

Quote from MisterJack112:

But one day we can definitly TAS this game. Maybe we can make it to sereval person (They say it like that? I think sometimes my sentence are wierd sorry I'm not an english guy).

There is hope for the future. XInput is supported in Hourglass-Resurrection, a continuation of the old Hourglass project. However it is currently not ready for TASing games yet.

Moatman

Edit history:

Moatman: 2014-08-21 11:21:15 pm

2014-08-21 11:20:07 pm

Quote from Elesder:

Hi there, i'm in running this game, any% for now (shitty pb at 36:04, sob is 31:28).
Just a little tip for training purpose.
you can go to C:\Users\*USERNAME*\AppData\LocalLow\Rain\Teslagrad and find directories named 1 to 6 corresponding to the 6 slots of the save in the game.
If you put the file in there in read only mode (right click, properties, check read only), then the game will send you some save problem messages but will not erase the save and run normaly.
So you can train a room, if you passed the next checkpoint, if yuou die after it reset as usual but if you reset the game you start at your old saved spot.
Hope it help Wink

Oh man, thanks. That makes my life so much easier. My old way was to pull saves and then c/p them into the folder I was using every time I passed/reset.

e: I'm putting Teslagrad in for AGDQ, so fingers crossed that it's accepted.

PrettyFrenchMan

2014-08-22 05:28:07 am

Hey, I'm the guy Jack was talking about, I'm looking for tasing Teslagrad but apparently it can't work into Hourglass. I was wondering if there could be a way to make it work through an other way. I'm not developper at all but it seems like the issue is how Teslagrad receive inputs, so if a program could send to Teslagrad inputs the same way like 360 controller do, it could work right ? Or am I missing something ?
Otherwise I can contact one of the developper of Teslagrad, maybe this guy could help (he did congrats Jack on many of his run so I'm sure he would be glad to help, maybe I'm totally wrong, it's just the way i feel it).

Anyway, If you want to contact me you can add me on skype with this mail : simandersen@hotmail.fr , Im looking for any feedback that could help to improve the run (we found a lot of tricks with Jack and more we are, more tricks will be found I'm sure).

BoursinBurger

2014-08-22 05:33:55 am

Quote from MisterJack112:

I haven't think about the 17th scroll. You need to go in the room on the right and return on the left for refresh the spider. Maybe the 5th or 8th (before and after the first boss). The time saved is really close each time I think.

I tried a bit of comparison timing last night on scrolls 5, 8, and 17. I need to optimize each path to get a true timing comparison, but it looks like scroll 5 is about 7 seconds difference, and scrolls 8 and 17 are about 8 seconds difference.

I had a brilliant idea this morning regarding autosplitting Teslagrad times via LiveSplit. I can write a file watcher program to monitor the save file for updates, then make my program press the appropriate LiveSplit hotkey when a condition for a split is detected. I will need to experiment with this.

Arturrian

2014-08-22 02:30:09 pm

So; I really hate the "Magnetic Lift" room, so I was doing some work to see if it can be skipped altogether. I couldn't find a way to skip the room, but I found a little 1.5 second optimization for it.

Quote from Moatman:

e: I'm putting Teslagrad in for AGDQ, so fingers crossed that it's accepted.

I put in for it, as well. Maybe a race can be put together? O.o
Either way, it'd be great if I can sit on the couch while you're running or vice versa. Smiley

MisterJack112

2014-08-23 03:01:58 am

I ask me how many time it save but I think you know this trick.
Like in a other room (look my NG+ top on the page) at 6:30 you can push the spider for gain a little time.
(And at 10:55 I try the lift but it's a fail ^^)

That can be really cool if this game is in AGDQ to make know this game more.

BoursinBurger

Edit history:

BoursinBurger: 2014-08-25 04:26:42 am

BoursinBurger: 2014-08-25 03:41:30 am

2014-08-24 02:16:47 pm

My experimentation with monitoring the save file is a success. I have created a program to auto-split Teslagrad via LiveSplit based on updates to the saved game file.

Please note that the save file is not updated during three events we commonly use for splitting: Starting a new game at the opening cutscene, Killing the King, and reaching the Ende.
You can, however, either manually split those events, or use the following three things as a substitute:
The first game save is made at the end of the opening cutscene when the door opens. Briefly at this point, openBarriers is set to 0. SDA's rules say to start the timer when you gain control of the character, so this is the perfect event to use for their timing.
You can set a split point for reaching the Ende Moat scene after teleporting back to the tower in a 100% run.
Finally, after reaching the Ende, if you press Enter to return to the main menu, the gameComplete flag is set to 1. In an NG+ run, you can use defeatedBosses: 0 as a substitute.

The good news is that auto-splitting can be done on entering any room, collecting any scroll, killing any boss leading up to the King, and collecting any item. This can result in a very precise split route. My test file has 125 splits in it, all automatic except for the Beginning and the Ende.

Before releasing this program to the public, I will be spending some time testing it with Arturrian to make sure it works properly.

On to another topic! While I was practicing, I was climbing up to the elevator leading to the Brazen Bull. By accident, I blinked toward the elevator while a slug was approaching it. My blink caused me to overlap the slug, sending it flying backward off the ledge, toward the switch for opening Scroll 27. Perhaps this can be done on purpose in a 100% run to save time. I'm going to see if I can reproduce it ...

EDIT: Too unpredictable and precise to reproduce. Looks like something that may be TAS only. It's easier to just punch the slug red and drag it off the ledge with blue cloak.

Instead, here's something silly I found with Faradeus:

My experimentation with monitoring the save file is a success. I have created a program to auto-split Teslagrad via LiveSplit based on updates to the saved game file.

Please note that the save file is not updated during three events we commonly use for splitting: Starting a new game at the opening cutscene, Killing the King, and reaching the Ende.
You can, however, either manually split those events, or use the following three things as a substitute:
The first game save is made at the end of the opening cutscene when the door opens. Briefly at this point, openBarriers is set to 0. SDA's rules say to start the timer when you gain control of the character, so this is the perfect event to use for their timing.
You can set a split point for reaching the Ende Moat scene after teleporting back to the tower in a 100% run.
Finally, after reaching the Ende, if you press Enter to return to the main menu, the gameComplete flag is set to 1. In an NG+ run, you can use defeatedBosses: 0 as a substitute.

The good news is that auto-splitting can be done on entering any room, collecting any scroll, killing any boss leading up to the King, and collecting any item. This can result in a very precise split route. My test file has 125 splits in it, all automatic except for the Beginning and the Ende.

Before releasing this program to the public, I will be spending some time testing it with Arturrian to make sure it works properly.

On to another topic! While I was practicing, I was climbing up to the elevator leading to the Brazen Bull. By accident, I blinked toward the elevator while a slug was approaching it. My blink caused me to overlap the slug, sending it flying backward off the ledge, toward the switch for opening Scroll 27. Perhaps this can be done on purpose in a 100% run to save time. I'm going to see if I can reproduce it ...

EDIT: Too unpredictable and precise to reproduce. Looks like something that may be TAS only. It's easier to just punch the slug red and drag it off the ledge with blue cloak.

Instead, here's something silly I found with Faradeus:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SX9JekE6wZ0