Secret of Mana

2009-09-28 07:42:39 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Enhasa: We should use a couple of save spots for hard spots like Spiky Tiger and Pure Land (trust me, this place is pretty rough), so we can try a couple of times in case if we fail. If we try more than 2 or 3 times, then I would say nuke the run. I do agree our route should be as safe and reliable as possible though.

Quote from EvilJogga:

An intersting point will be that you won't be able to stack magic, if you play with 3P. This might make some boss fights a lot harder, as you can't keep the bosses stunned with casting magic.
I am really looking forward to this!

Not true, I've played 3-players before, and the Sprite recovers quickly enough from certain spells (freeze, gem missile, dark force, and a couple of others) to repeat casting.

honorableJay

2009-09-28 07:51:06 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

From what I recall, you can trade players out at will. This way, if you need to stack magic attacks, the player controlling the sprite can tag out, let someone else start casting spells like crazy, then tag back in once the stack is done. Granted I have no idea what this can do to a true 3P run (or even the rules that are going into this run). The good thing is nobody will have to watch the computer run around like an idiot for a while Smiley

Hattori HANZo

2009-09-28 07:53:22 pm

contraddicted

Quote from mikwuyma:

Enhasa: We should use a couple of save spots for hard spots like Spiky Tiger and Pure Land (trust me, this place is pretty rough), so we can try a couple of times in case if we fail. If we try more than 2 or 3 times, then I would say nuke the run. I do agree our route should be as safe and reliable as possible though.

Seconded!
Some bad luck can easily kill you in a boss fight. It would be a shame if the run would end like that or you would just spend half the time grinding to avoid that. If you do it for fun and entertaining anyways, who cares about a reload here and there?

mikwuyma

2009-09-28 10:19:35 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

honorablejay: The rule is to just have a good run, so we'll switch to cpu if necessary.

RaneofSOTN

2009-09-28 11:03:12 pm

I want off the ride....

Well enhasa and Mike, you guys should really figure out weapons for all 3 characters so you guys can do that weapon glitch..

Straight up, if both of you charged up weapons then on the 3rd character, swapped them (after they were charged) to another weapon you can't charge that high (requires another human player), the game glitches and allows you to charge up to level 256, granting 999 on an attack, if two of you were to abuse this with a 3rd person to switch out weapons, almost all bosses would drop with little to no fight.

DoubleThink

2009-09-29 01:43:01 am

There's a word for that

Yeah if you can't get the weapon glitch to work then later on you won't have much choice but to grind magic in order to be able to hurt certain things effectively, because weapons don't really work that well in a few fights (the big slimes come to mind for a start). Having someone using a ranged weapon certainly won't be a bad idea (whip counts! :D).

Defensive crunchpoints (running mostly off memory, I think the last time I played this was two years ago):
-The ones already mentioned before getting magic, like the werewolves and Spikey Tiger. A lack of cash for items will probably be the biggest problem early on, and grinding takes time.
-The Ma Goblins in the underground palace hit pretty hard, so do the Dinofish in the sewers (much later) that launch missiles at you.
-Wall Face. If you can't hit it hard and fast the battle will take a long time, and then you'll likely die on the spikes because it has too much HP left.
-Anything that casts Wall on itself, and accidentally draining undead enemies.
-The armour that Neko sells after the Grand Palace is hella expensive, but without it the enemies in the Pure Land hit very hard like Mike says. At least one piece for everyone will save a lot of pain. Even then...
-Thunder Gigas; Blitz Breath hits for 400+, even with a full set of Neko's fancy armour.
-Running out of Walnuts in the Mana Fortress. This is a biggie: If you run out of magic for the girl, not only is the Mana Beast very hard to damage but there's no way to heal from his attacks. Lich and especially Dread Slime will be a colossal pain to deal with without the weapon glitch.

You had better get a Power Wrist too Angry

Yeah if you can't get the weapon glitch to work then later on you won't have much choice but to grind magic in order to be able to hurt certain things effectively, because weapons don't really work that well in a few fights (the big slimes come to mind for a start). Having someone using a ranged weapon certainly won't be a bad idea (whip counts! :D).

Defensive crunchpoints (running mostly off memory, I think the last time I played this was two years ago):
-The ones already mentioned before getting magic, like the werewolves and Spikey Tiger. A lack of cash for items will probably be the biggest problem early on, and grinding takes time.
-The Ma Goblins in the underground palace hit pretty hard, so do the Dinofish in the sewers (much later) that launch missiles at you.
-Wall Face. If you can't hit it hard and fast the battle will take a long time, and then you'll likely die on the spikes because it has too much HP left.
-Anything that casts Wall on itself, and accidentally draining undead enemies.
-The armour that Neko sells after the Grand Palace is hella expensive, but without it the enemies in the Pure Land hit very hard like Mike says. At least one piece for everyone will save a lot of pain. Even then...
-Thunder Gigas; Blitz Breath hits for 400+, even with a full set of Neko's fancy armour.
-Running out of Walnuts in the Mana Fortress. This is a biggie: If you run out of magic for the girl, not only is the Mana Beast very hard to damage but there's no way to heal from his attacks. Lich and especially Dread Slime will be a colossal pain to deal with without the weapon glitch.

You had better get a Power Wrist too >:(

Enhasa

2009-09-29 01:36:18 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

About the stat glitch for a second. Isn't it just using a buff, then saving and reloading? (Since you restart before the effect wears off, the game is dumb and lets you keep it permanently.) Is the only reason we wouldn't use that just cheapness? Molotov was implying it was unreliable, if I understood correctly. I don't think it's fundamentally more cheap than other things we can be doing, but maybe I'll look into it more.

Quote from EvilJogga:

I'd say ditch the bitch. If you don't wanna lose her, you have to run the whole way to the woods, find the barrier you need the axe for and go to the dwarfs' village. Running halfway through the woods twice is most likely not worth having the girl at your side. The werewolves aren't THAT bad Wink

Ok, that's exactly what I was saying. The other route takes forever, it doesn't help against Spiky Tiger, and werewolves aren't hard if you know what you're doing anyway.

Healing trick is especially useful in the final fight. If people get themselves into the wrong positions like against the mech rider, can be used then too.

This goes to honorableJay too: Can't you chain magic even with 3p? I remember being able to. Anyway, it's not a big deal at all, the normal casting speed is more than fast enough.

Mike: We should definitely save at points because there's no reason not to, and people like seeing intermediary times anyway. I really don't anticipate failing though, especially if we plan out pre-Spiky Tiger. I'm more afraid of a braincramp and not knowing where to go at times, which looks really stupid. Hopefully with 3 people we can keep that stuff down to a minimum.

DT: Isn't the weapon glitch reliable? Anyway with weapons, it is definitely best to only level 3 types up at max, one for each character. (Although if you really wanted to skimp, only the boy's is necessary.) So you want to pick the best types (some are wayyyyy better than others) and just stick to those. Shouldn't be hard to plan it out by looking at a FAQ and seeing the order you get them in. Some weapons (specific weapons, not types) also have special effects like buffing your magic, so if it's easy to get one of those (later, you will have enough orbs and money to go straight from level 1 to say 4 if you want to), you can do that and just leave the type at that level.

Whip is the best ranged weapon, and the best part about it is that you're required to use it a lot anyway. Having to switch like a million times is slow. What weapons do you have to use again in the field? Whip, sword, axe? Bow? I don't really remember at all. I think also for some of the weapon requirements, there are overlaps, like both axe or sword will be ok.

Another thing about weapons is sometimes you glitch and get multiple weapon orbs and thus get ahead of the curve. Or maybe I'm just making that up and what happens is if you miss one, the game lets you catch up that way. Hmm, that's probably it.

One thing that I thought was crazy about the current run on SDA is that he leveled up lots of different magic types IIRC. That takes a lot of time, and even if some bosses have special weaknesses, you can still kinda pound them with say, freeze or burst.

I've gone through this game with no forced fights, so exp should be good. I mean, we'll be fighting guys in our path. Cash is really not a problem either. I don't remember having to get cash. BTW it depends on what your perspective is, if you're the kind of guy who needs to buy new equipment each new town, then yeah, this game has money issues at low level. But what you really spend your money on is just items. The real reason this game gets easier later on is because you can stock up on life potions and walnuts.

I don't remember if it happens, but I'm more worried about running out of walnuts in Pure Land if anywhere (because you have to fight just a ton of bosses). Maybe sprite should level up mp drain, who knows, but in a pinch, it's not the end of the world to fly out and go to the inn. It's not a long dungeon or anything if the bosses are already cleared.

Even without glitches and without either fighting at all or offensive magic (pick one), I don't remember anything being threatening past Spiky Tiger. I'm NOT going to be overconfident though, since others don't seem to share this view and I am likely wrong. Everyone brings up Pure Land but the only real dangerous thing I see there is someone getting hitlocked to death, which is only a problem 1p.

Speaking of 1p, this is one of the very rare games where AI control is actually faster than human control. 3p: everyone has to run and use meter. 1p: you can run, then switch and run, switch and run, etc with no downtime.

About the stat glitch for a second. Isn't it just using a buff, then saving and reloading? (Since you restart before the effect wears off, the game is dumb and lets you keep it permanently.) Is the only reason we wouldn't use that just cheapness? Molotov was implying it was unreliable, if I understood correctly. I don't think it's fundamentally more cheap than other things we can be doing, but maybe I'll look into it more.

[quote="EvilJogga"]
I'd say ditch the bitch. If you don't wanna lose her, you have to run the whole way to the woods, find the barrier you need the axe for and go to the dwarfs' village. Running halfway through the woods twice is most likely not worth having the girl at your side. The werewolves aren't THAT bad ;)[/quote]
Ok, that's exactly what I was saying. The other route takes forever, it doesn't help against Spiky Tiger, and werewolves aren't hard if you know what you're doing anyway.

Healing trick is especially useful in the final fight. If people get themselves into the wrong positions like against the mech rider, can be used then too.

This goes to honorableJay too: Can't you chain magic even with 3p? I remember being able to. Anyway, it's not a big deal at all, the normal casting speed is more than fast enough.

Mike: We should definitely save at points because there's no reason not to, and people like seeing intermediary times anyway. I really don't anticipate failing though, especially if we plan out pre-Spiky Tiger. I'm more afraid of a braincramp and not knowing where to go at times, which looks really stupid. Hopefully with 3 people we can keep that stuff down to a minimum.

DT: Isn't the weapon glitch reliable? Anyway with weapons, it is definitely best to only level 3 types up at max, one for each character. (Although if you really wanted to skimp, only the boy's is necessary.) So you want to pick the best types (some are wayyyyy better than others) and just stick to those. Shouldn't be hard to plan it out by looking at a FAQ and seeing the order you get them in. Some weapons (specific weapons, not types) also have special effects like buffing your magic, so if it's easy to get one of those (later, you will have enough orbs and money to go straight from level 1 to say 4 if you want to), you can do that and just leave the type at that level.

Whip is the best ranged weapon, and the best part about it is that you're required to use it a lot anyway. Having to switch like a million times is slow. What weapons do you have to use again in the field? Whip, sword, axe? Bow? I don't really remember at all. I think also for some of the weapon requirements, there are overlaps, like both axe or sword will be ok.

Another thing about weapons is sometimes you glitch and get multiple weapon orbs and thus get ahead of the curve. Or maybe I'm just making that up and what happens is if you miss one, the game lets you catch up that way. Hmm, that's probably it.

One thing that I thought was crazy about the current run on SDA is that he leveled up lots of different magic types IIRC. That takes a lot of time, and even if some bosses have special weaknesses, you can still kinda pound them with say, freeze or burst.

I've gone through this game with no forced fights, so exp should be good. I mean, we'll be fighting guys in our path. Cash is really not a problem either. I don't remember having to get cash. BTW it depends on what your perspective is, if you're the kind of guy who needs to buy new equipment each new town, then yeah, this game has money issues at low level. But what you really spend your money on is just items. The real reason this game gets easier later on is because you can stock up on life potions and walnuts.

I don't remember if it happens, but I'm more worried about running out of walnuts in Pure Land if anywhere (because you have to fight just a ton of bosses). Maybe sprite should level up mp drain, who knows, but in a pinch, it's not the end of the world to fly out and go to the inn. It's not a long dungeon or anything if the bosses are already cleared.

Even without glitches and without either fighting at all or offensive magic (pick one), I don't remember anything being threatening past Spiky Tiger. I'm NOT going to be overconfident though, since others don't seem to share this view and I am likely wrong. Everyone brings up Pure Land but the only real dangerous thing I see there is someone getting hitlocked to death, which is only a problem 1p.

Speaking of 1p, this is one of the very rare games where AI control is actually faster than human control. 3p: everyone has to run and use meter. 1p: you can run, then switch and run, switch and run, etc with no downtime.

mikwuyma

2009-09-29 02:17:50 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Stat glitch: What I meant to say was it's more confusing than anything else. Viewers will wonder why we're saving and reloading the game when we haven't even died. I don't care about using glitches really, but making the run as continuous (or smooth) as possible is important, IMO.

Chaining magic: I mentioned this earlier, but you can definitely do this with 3-players, especially if you use spells with long casting animations and quick recovery times, like freeze or dark force.

Saving: Yeah, I was planning on saving no matter what at least every 30 minutes or so, but the way you phrased it earlier sounded like you didn't want to.

Weapon glitch: I'll try it out soon, but I'm confused. Wouldn't we just need to level up 2 weapons since you have to switch out weapons while performing the glitch, and it sounds like one character wouldn't be able to switch. And do we have to level up the weapons up to max? It sounds like with the glitch we don't have to, but again, I don't know.

Weapons: Axe overlaps with sword when it comes to destroying scenery, and it destroys things the sword can't, like rocks, but don't you need to level up the sword for the final battle? Or does the final spell just auto-level your sword up to max? We need a SoM guru or detailed stats list or something. Also, I agree that whip is the best ranged weapon, not only is it used to traverse across obstacles, it's the ranged weapon with the best hit rate (bows and boomerangs are terrible at hitting things, IIRC). I would say weapon leveling should be Sword, Whip, and Axe, in roughly that order. Everything else either sucks (gloves, boomerangs) or is superfluous (spears). Well, gloves let you do cool sf-style moves, but that's about it.

Progress through the game: Overall I agree with you that the game gets a lot easier after Spiky Tiger (though Double Think did mention some bosses that could be difficult outside of Pure Land) because you get spells and more healing items like chocolate and honey. I'm still thinking it might be a good idea to grind on green slimes for some levels and cash for a minute or two, if nothing else, we want to afford the level 2 sword before we fight Spiky Tiger (pretty sure you can't visit Watts outside of the Dwarf village at that point).

Werewolves are still hard IMO Sad

but I haven't played since Saturday. I'm guessing you want to adopt a mostly hit and run strategy.

Stat glitch: What I meant to say was it's more confusing than anything else. Viewers will wonder why we're saving and reloading the game when we haven't even died. I don't care about using glitches really, but making the run as continuous (or smooth) as possible is important, IMO.

Chaining magic: I mentioned this earlier, but you can definitely do this with 3-players, especially if you use spells with long casting animations and quick recovery times, like freeze or dark force.

Saving: Yeah, I was planning on saving no matter what at least every 30 minutes or so, but the way you phrased it earlier sounded like you didn't want to.

Weapon glitch: I'll try it out soon, but I'm confused. Wouldn't we just need to level up 2 weapons since you have to switch out weapons while performing the glitch, and it sounds like one character wouldn't be able to switch. And do we have to level up the weapons up to max? It sounds like with the glitch we don't have to, but again, I don't know.

Weapons: Axe overlaps with sword when it comes to destroying scenery, and it destroys things the sword can't, like rocks, but don't you need to level up the sword for the final battle? Or does the final spell just auto-level your sword up to max? We need a SoM guru or detailed stats list or something. Also, I agree that whip is the best ranged weapon, not only is it used to traverse across obstacles, it's the ranged weapon with the best hit rate (bows and boomerangs are terrible at hitting things, IIRC). I would say weapon leveling should be Sword, Whip, and Axe, in roughly that order. Everything else either sucks (gloves, boomerangs) or is superfluous (spears). Well, gloves let you do cool sf-style moves, but that's about it.

Progress through the game: Overall I agree with you that the game gets a lot easier after Spiky Tiger (though Double Think did mention some bosses that could be difficult outside of Pure Land) because you get spells and more healing items like chocolate and honey. I'm still thinking it might be a good idea to grind on green slimes for some levels and cash for a minute or two, if nothing else, we want to afford the level 2 sword before we fight Spiky Tiger (pretty sure you can't visit Watts outside of the Dwarf village at that point).

Werewolves are still hard IMO :( but I haven't played since Saturday. I'm guessing you want to adopt a mostly hit and run strategy.

Enhasa

2009-09-29 03:43:12 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Stat glitch: Well I just realized the obvious answer anyway. It singlehandedly ruins SS. That's way more than enough reason just by itself.

Saving: I never said a word about not saving. Where do you read into what I'm saying all the time? I say things really directly. Too directly. Tongue

This game is so glitchy and saving is so fast, I'd want to do it all the time anyway. Oh, maybe when I said SS. But SS doesn't mean you can't save and can't die.

Weapon glitch: Who knows, I couldn't even tell which glitches we were planning on using at one point.

Weapon levels: I think the final spell levels it up to max. There is tons of detailed and great info for this game online (SNES Square game), but we are too lazy to do all that research ourselves.

BTW you might be confusing two different things. There is a weapon level for your weapon, they upgrade. That also sets your max charge level for charge attacks. They aren't the same thing though. The glitch lets you get around your max charge level (switching weapons confuses the check). You still have the same level weapon though, meaning same attack bonus etc. You just have a high level charge. You still have to charge that bad boy up though. You can still lose it if you get hit (although I forget exactly how this works again, you can keep it if hit physically or something IIRC). You can still miss with it. You still have to do it everytime. It's not as useful as Kevin glitch in SD3. I dunno though, we didn't use glitches when we played, and we didn't even use charges unless the boss is in an invulnerability period or some time you can do it for free.

The best weapons IIRC are sword, axe, spear, and whip, won't speculate on the order. I remember not using the sword at times. Axe and whip should be gimmes since you need them in the field, although I don't think the situations where you need to switch to axe over sword/spear are really that great. Spear is amazing good against regular enemies because there are some sick status effects like balloon, confusion, sleep (I remember the Sprite's Spear did the balloon, and when playing as the sprite I would always convince other players to give me the spear since it says Sprite's Spear after all ;D). I guess the thing to do is map out when in the game you get which orbs, and how that matches up with bosses for the strong vs whatevers. I'd go with spear, axe, whip if I could though. Nice variety and synergy, since the greater reach of whip and somewhat spear can let you hit guys you couldn't with axe or sword. Speaking of which, I think the bow is the only thing that can hit Spiky Tiger when he's up high, but of course you can always swap so boy has the bow for that.

About grinding on slimes: maybe, but it wouldn't be for money for sword. I remember clearly you can afford that. You can't visit Watts once you leave dwarf village until later, but it doesn't matter since you don't get any important orbs (or any orbs?) since the very next boss after Tropicallo is Spiky Tiger. Yes, Spiky Tiger is the 2nd real boss in the entire game (3rd if including Mantis Ant) so that's why he's hard, your levels are pretty low at that point without bosses to pump them up. And this is why later on the game is a lot easier at low levels, they throw a lot more bosses at you and you gain exp.

Werewolves: Yeah, hit and run, you basically induce them to whiff and then punish, repeat. If you practice a bit, you will definitely get it down.

BTW I remember with Tropicallo, it's pretty tough when ignoring regular enemies. In fact, you usually die. So it's definitely worth getting one level above that (and it's still hard). This is where slimes can come in. The only problem with slimes is: they're pretty tough for regular enemies at the time, and you can actually just flat out die against them. Anyway, the beginning of this game is scary and fun and I wish the whole game was like that. Magic and boss special moves and all that crap are so noninteractive, and because it's a Square game, you can just heal and heal and heal and heal and heal and heal and heal.

Oh yeah, you need money to see the sprite's show too, even though you get it back. BTW lol, I'm looking at the low level guide at gamefaqs and it's actually overleveled. Don't ask me how this is possible. Lips Sealed

For reference, he's at 4 for Tropicallo, 8 for werewolves, and 10 for Spiky Tiger.

Stat glitch: Well I just realized the obvious answer anyway. It singlehandedly ruins SS. That's way more than enough reason just by itself.

Saving: I never said a word about not saving. Where do you read into what I'm saying all the time? I say things really directly. Too directly. :P This game is so glitchy and saving is so fast, I'd want to do it all the time anyway. Oh, maybe when I said SS. But SS doesn't mean you can't save and can't die.

Weapon glitch: Who knows, I couldn't even tell which glitches we were planning on using at one point.

Weapon levels: I think the final spell levels it up to max. There is tons of detailed and great info for this game online (SNES Square game), but we are too lazy to do all that research ourselves.

BTW you might be confusing two different things. There is a weapon level for your weapon, they upgrade. That also sets your max charge level for charge attacks. They aren't the same thing though. The glitch lets you get around your max charge level (switching weapons confuses the check). You still have the same level weapon though, meaning same attack bonus etc. You just have a high level charge. You still have to charge that bad boy up though. You can still lose it if you get hit (although I forget exactly how this works again, you can keep it if hit physically or something IIRC). You can still miss with it. You still have to do it everytime. It's not as useful as Kevin glitch in SD3. I dunno though, we didn't use glitches when we played, and we didn't even use charges unless the boss is in an invulnerability period or some time you can do it for free.

The best weapons IIRC are sword, axe, spear, and whip, won't speculate on the order. I remember not using the sword at times. Axe and whip should be gimmes since you need them in the field, although I don't think the situations where you need to switch to axe over sword/spear are really that great. Spear is amazing good against regular enemies because there are some sick status effects like balloon, confusion, sleep (I remember the Sprite's Spear did the balloon, and when playing as the sprite I would always convince other players to give me the spear since it says Sprite's Spear after all ;D). I guess the thing to do is map out when in the game you get which orbs, and how that matches up with bosses for the strong vs whatevers. I'd go with spear, axe, whip if I could though. Nice variety and synergy, since the greater reach of whip and somewhat spear can let you hit guys you couldn't with axe or sword. Speaking of which, I think the bow is the only thing that can hit Spiky Tiger when he's up high, but of course you can always swap so boy has the bow for that.

About grinding on slimes: maybe, but it wouldn't be for money for sword. I remember clearly you can afford that. You can't visit Watts once you leave dwarf village until later, but it doesn't matter since you don't get any important orbs (or any orbs?) since the very next boss after Tropicallo is Spiky Tiger. Yes, Spiky Tiger is the 2nd real boss in the entire game (3rd if including Mantis Ant) so that's why he's hard, your levels are pretty low at that point without bosses to pump them up. And this is why later on the game is a lot easier at low levels, they throw a lot more bosses at you and you gain exp.

Werewolves: Yeah, hit and run, you basically induce them to whiff and then punish, repeat. If you practice a bit, you will definitely get it down.

BTW I remember with Tropicallo, it's pretty tough when ignoring regular enemies. In fact, you usually die. So it's definitely worth getting one level above that (and it's still hard). This is where slimes can come in. The only problem with slimes is: they're pretty tough for regular enemies at the time, and you can actually just flat out die against them. Anyway, the beginning of this game is scary and fun and I wish the whole game was like that. Magic and boss special moves and all that crap are so noninteractive, and because it's a Square game, you can just heal and heal and heal and heal and heal and heal and heal.

Oh yeah, you need money to see the sprite's show too, even though you get it back. BTW lol, I'm looking at the low level guide at gamefaqs and it's actually overleveled. Don't ask me how this is possible. :-X For reference, he's at 4 for Tropicallo, 8 for werewolves, and 10 for Spiky Tiger.

Hattori HANZo

2009-09-29 03:57:52 pm

contraddicted

Weapons:
You need the axe for some things and the whip, iirc. Sword as the third makes sense, because you have it early, it deals good damage and helps against plants before you get the axe.
I never really used the rest, except for the boomerang, which is not better than the whip, imo.

Pureland:
I'd say use MP drain and the sprite's magic a lot. Even with proper armor the enemies like to hit you hard and walnuts could be an issue. Though heal should have been leveled quite far until there, just by itself Wink

IIRC, using earth and fire did very well against the usual enemies. Those footsies should be weak against earth, the Hedgehog like things too and the fork throwing toadies go down nice with fire.
Maybe earth alone would be enough for pureland. But I'd propose excessive magic use.

Mana Beast:
Hell what? Charging weapons?
Buff the boy to death with the girl's moon spells and you will do a lot more damage by normal strikes and hell of a lot more per time, than with charging weapons.

DateHell

2009-09-30 01:50:27 am

po0oq

Appearently someone found a cool teleport glitch and told the ppl at TASvideos (note that I do not personally understand the workings atm... just reporting it here)

mikwuyma

Edit history:

mikwuyma: 2009-09-30 10:11:07 am

2009-09-30 08:10:13 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

I did a bit of testing for the beginning of the game (up to when you rescue the girl).

-Dying on the first boss twice because he spell spams you is embarrassing. Sad

Good thing you don't have to worry about your hp at that point.

-Flowers are deadly. Sad

-You only need money for seeing the show. If you don't have enough money to cure the Sprite, the elder just berates you for being poor, and the story goes on like normal. You might also need money to upgrade the sword, I forgot.

-It's definitely worth leveling before tropicallo, IMO. If you don't level at all, you'll only be level 1, doing pitiful damage while always risking death (you die in two hits). Although I'm sure leveling is slower, leveling on the slimes up to level 4 makes the Tropicallo battle much faster and easier because you can charge your sword and you can take another hit (plus you can actually afford a power wrist in the Dwarf village if you level).

-The weapon glitch requires at least 1 level 2 charge, and one level 1 charge, so the earliest you can exploit it is when you arrive at the Dwarf Village (level 2 sword, level 1 spear). You could level up weapons before Spiky Tiger so you could take it out in one hit with the weapon glitch. This method might be worth it just to make getting past the fight a lot easier, but I'm sure leveling up the sword and spear is a lot slower than just going straight to Spiky Tiger.

-Keeping the cpu sprite alive in the forest is nearly impossible, but that's probably a non-issue when we play together.

-Werewolves aren't too bad, unless if they happen to combo you repeatedly. :-/ Also, their cure waters are so annoying. EDIT: Actually Werewolves are awful because half the time they hit you, they combo you for another 2 or 3 hits. It's so stupid.

EDIT: I figured out how Mantis Ant works. You just stay close to him and he's a lot less likely to use spells.

I did a bit of testing for the beginning of the game (up to when you rescue the girl).

-Dying on the first boss twice because he spell spams you is embarrassing. :( Good thing you don't have to worry about your hp at that point.

-Flowers are deadly. :(

-You only need money for seeing the show. If you don't have enough money to cure the Sprite, the elder just berates you for being poor, and the story goes on like normal. You might also need money to upgrade the sword, I forgot.

-It's definitely worth leveling before tropicallo, IMO. If you don't level at all, you'll only be level 1, doing pitiful damage while always risking death (you die in two hits). Although I'm sure leveling is slower, leveling on the slimes up to level 4 makes the Tropicallo battle much faster and easier because you can charge your sword and you can take another hit (plus you can actually afford a power wrist in the Dwarf village if you level).

-The weapon glitch requires at least 1 level 2 charge, and one level 1 charge, so the earliest you can exploit it is when you arrive at the Dwarf Village (level 2 sword, level 1 spear). You could level up weapons before Spiky Tiger so you could take it out in one hit with the weapon glitch. This method might be worth it just to make getting past the fight a lot easier, but I'm sure leveling up the sword and spear is a lot slower than just going straight to Spiky Tiger.

-Keeping the cpu sprite alive in the forest is nearly impossible, but that's probably a non-issue when we play together.

-Werewolves aren't too bad, unless if they happen to combo you repeatedly. :-/ Also, their cure waters are so annoying. EDIT: Actually Werewolves are awful because half the time they hit you, they combo you for another 2 or 3 hits.  It's so stupid.

EDIT: I figured out how Mantis Ant works. You just stay close to him and he's a lot less likely to use  spells.

DoubleThink

2009-09-30 09:52:09 am

There's a word for that

Green Drops are very nasty to level on, mostly because they troll-dodge 4 out of 5 hits. The current run uses a room with 2 sleeping Kid Goblins and some pushing to level up (not the one with the Magic Rope, the chest gets in the way there). They give 8 exp relative to Green Drop's 10, give 14 GP relative to 12, and have 28 GP as a common drop relative to 24 GP as a rare. They hit slightly harder, but can't poison. Current run also upgrades the sword for the Tropicallo fight, for the one-time special price of 100 GP. That gives +5 same as the Power Wrist for 50 less GP, so it probably has priority.

Magic chaining is easy enough to do with ONE character, if that even matters anymore >_> Oh and this shows off Blitz Breath, about 25 seconds in. It's only single target, but it's still pretty much a 1-hit at lower levels.

Molotov

2009-09-30 12:50:41 pm

Quote from mikwuyma:

-Dying on the first boss twice because he spell spams you is embarrassing. Sad

Good thing you don't have to worry about your hp at that point.

It's good to know that I wasn't the only one getting smoked by Mantis Ant. I seriously thought I had downloaded that "hard" hack I've heard some GameFAQs people mention. >_<

Quote:

-Flowers are deadly. Sad

I found Buzz Bees to be far more lethal, because they ambush you from offscreen and sometimes come in groups. Sad

Quote:

...(plus you can actually afford a power wrist in the Dwarf village if you level).

Good grief. I fought Tropicallo without any new equipment at all, so no wonder it was insane.

Quote:

You could level up weapons before Spiky Tiger so you could take it out in one hit with the weapon glitch. This method might be worth it just to make getting past the fight a lot easier, but I'm sure leveling up the sword and spear is a lot slower than just going straight to Spiky Tiger.

Well, I think we should just kill most enemies along the way before Spiky. I know it's slower, but it would certainly make most things easier. You'd want to level your weapons anyway and you might even be able to afford a freaking Spiky Suit. Tongue

Quote:

-Keeping the cpu sprite alive in the forest is nearly impossible, but that's probably a non-issue when we play together.

~~Depends on who is playing him. Ho ho ho.~~

Quote:

EDIT: Actually Werewolves are awful because half the time they hit you, they combo you for another 2 or 3 hits. It's so stupid.

Don't forget the fact that you take damage for going within 20 feet of one. Also doesn't help that I didn't have enough money to buy more than two Power Wrists (freaking Watts!).

[quote="mikwuyma"]-Dying on the first boss twice because he spell spams you is embarrassing. :( Good thing you don't have to worry about your hp at that point.[/quote]

It's good to know that I wasn't the only one getting smoked by Mantis Ant. I seriously thought I had downloaded that "hard" hack I've heard some GameFAQs people mention. >_<

[quote]-Flowers are deadly. :([/quote]

I found Buzz Bees to be far more lethal, because they ambush you from offscreen and sometimes come in groups. :(

[quote]...(plus you can actually afford a power wrist in the Dwarf village if you level).[/quote]

Good grief. I fought Tropicallo without any new equipment at all, so no wonder it was insane.

[quote]You could level up weapons before Spiky Tiger so you could take it out in one hit with the weapon glitch. This method might be worth it just to make getting past the fight a lot easier, but I'm sure leveling up the sword and spear is a lot slower than just going straight to Spiky Tiger.[/quote]

Well, I think we should just kill most enemies along the way before Spiky. I know it's slower, but it would certainly make most things easier. You'd want to level your weapons anyway and you might even be able to afford a freaking Spiky Suit. :P

[quote]-Keeping the cpu sprite alive in the forest is nearly impossible, but that's probably a non-issue when we play together.[/quote]

[s]Depends on who is playing him. Ho ho ho.[/s]

[quote]EDIT: Actually Werewolves are awful because half the time they hit you, they combo you for another 2 or 3 hits.  It's so stupid.[/quote]

Don't forget the fact that you take damage for going within 20 feet of one. Also doesn't help that I didn't have enough money to buy more than two Power Wrists (freaking Watts!).

Enhasa

2009-09-30 02:07:08 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Charging: Yeah, 100% is a lot better than charging generally, but sometimes you can charge during a boss when there is nothing else to do.

Hate to repeat info, but yes, Mantis Ant would really be "hard" at level 1, but since you can't actually die, he's easy. Santa Claus is the same way, you literally cannot die against him.

Oh crap, I forgot you have to level up your weapons, lol. Another strike against the weapon glitch early on.

honorableJay

2009-10-01 05:02:53 pm

The Dork Knight himself.

@Enhasa: The magic stacking that I'm talking about requires you to have the cpu controlling the magic character and allows stacking for all magic spells (not just the ones that have long animations). Basically you have the cpu character cast a spell. As soon as the elemental sprite disappears, you can immediately cast the spell again. For attack spells, the damage dealt isn't shown until you allow the spell to finish. However, while you're stacking the spells this way, your target is frozen in place and can't do anything. I'm not sure if you can do any physical attacks, but this makes most boss fights a cakewalk. Just cast the spell the amount of times required and you're done. The only limitation I know (or at least I can guess) is that the maximum stacked damage is 9999 (or 999, been a while since I've played the game but I know it's one of the two).

SkratMan

2009-10-01 08:11:20 pm

[+--oo] In control since '86

The screen shows the max of 999 damage, but I don't know if it can stack any higher.

I think if you're going to power level early on, the kid goblins are the way to go. Much lower evasion rate, no poison (so no dodge-into-poison since all you've got are close-range weapons), you can gauge how many you need to kill within a relatively definite time before moving on, and there's no real "oops" factor if you kill off the last slime OR are stuck waiting around for the slime to divide.

Axe & whip are certainties. The spear does have better status effects iirc, but the sword is generally stronger.

Leveling magic... whoo, that's kind of tough. I really don't know. I like just about all of them at least lvl5. I hope the ease you all forsee after Spikey Tiger isn't in relation to you usually having high damage spells. Chaining/stacking will be all well and good, but I can think of a couple towers where there are a few bosses in succession. If you don't have high level spells, I could see you running out of mana/walnuts before they're all defeated. Having a medium level of MP steal would be great, but how long would that take to build up? Seems like it would add many minutes to a run when compared to buying walnuts a couple extra times. It's a dilemma in my brain...

The screen shows the max of 999 damage, but I don't know if it can stack any higher.

I think if you're going to power level early on, the kid goblins are the way to go.  Much lower evasion rate, no poison (so no dodge-into-poison since all you've got are close-range weapons), you can gauge how many you need to kill within a relatively definite time before moving on, and there's no real "oops" factor if you kill off the last slime OR are stuck waiting around for the slime to divide.

Axe & whip are certainties.  The spear does have better status effects iirc, but the sword is generally stronger.

Leveling magic...  whoo, that's kind of tough.  I really don't know.  I like just about all of them at least lvl5.  I hope the ease you all forsee after Spikey Tiger isn't in relation to you usually having high damage spells.  Chaining/stacking will be all well and good, but I can think of a couple towers where there are a few bosses in succession.  If you don't have high level spells, I could see you running out of mana/walnuts before they're all defeated.  Having a medium level of MP steal would be great, but how long would that take to build up?  Seems like it would add many minutes to a run when compared to buying walnuts a couple extra times.  It's a dilemma in my brain...

Hattori HANZo

2009-10-01 08:28:09 pm

contraddicted

Maximum damage is pretty sure 999. If not, then not too much more. I used to level magic in boss battles sometime and just stacked like crazy. Even if you blow 20+ hits on some boss with only several k HP, he won't die, though even 3 attacks would have been close to 999.

Leveling spells for the sprite, especially MP drain could be done "en passant" to a certain extend, by just using it on one enemy of a group to keep it stunned while killing off the rest.
IIRC, you get ten level sub points per casting on level 0, 9 on level one and so on. If this is right, then reaching level 4 should be 10+12+13+15 castings. So around 50. Sounds much, but with a proper level of MP drain you can fuel the sprite by leaching boss' MPs. And then you can train the spells "just in time", at the boss itself.

I am not sure about the speed of this method, but having MP drain as a kind of life saver can't hurt in a somehow single segmented run.

Enhasa

Edit history:

Enhasa: 2009-10-02 01:24:45 am

2009-10-01 10:03:52 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Yeah, I know how the stacking works. I promise, it really isn't all that important. Also, it does cap at 999 and you can tack on physical hits if you time it right. SD3 has a WAY more important magic bug, which is that time spent in the ring menu counts towards casting time. (!)

I think everyone can agree on kid goblins.

About running out of walnuts for a sec: leaving a dungeon, going to the inn, and coming back looks really stupid, if necessary, but it's still faster than spending all your time leveling magic. Most dungeons in this game are really short if you're just running through them.

Yeah, the best part about leveling mp drain is you can do it forever without resting. Think about all the spell animations and everything though. I'm not convinced it's faster than simply backtracking to an inn if need be (should be really rare, like pure land for example). Also the sprite could have spent that time chipping in damage to kill guys faster.

The weapons in this game are often dictated by the set order you get orbs in, which tends to help the already better ones -- fabulous game balance, lol. Looking at an FAQ, order of sword vs spear orbs you get (simultaneous ie before next Watts on the same line, bosses in between in parens). I did this really quickly and I'm not entirely sure where Watts is, say he's in a dungeon, so this could be very wrong.

sword 2, spear 2
spear 3, sword 3
sword 4 (mech rider 1... here is the one time sword is ahead)
spear 4
spear 5, sword 5
spear 6 (blue spike, gorgon bull, dark stalker)
sword 6
spear 7 (hydra, kettle kin, snap dragon.... possibly hexas and mech rider 3 except any sane person would leave after snap dragon)
sword 7, spear 8 (dragon worm, snow dragon, axe beak, red dragon, thunder gigas, blue dragon)
sword 8

str levels of spear: 4, 11, 16, 23, 29, 38, 46, 54
str levels of sword: 3, 8, 14, 20, 27, 35, 43, 52
str levels of whip: 2, 6, 12, 17, 24, 30, 38, 47

There are only 3 types of weapon strength progressions btw: axe and spear start at 4, sword and bow are 3 (yes, the bow is tied for 2nd strongest), knuckle whip boomerang dart are 2. Since whip is lowest power, it might be worth comparing to bow, but I still think whip is better, plus you need it a lot on the field. Mana Sword is 127 but you don't need level 8, it just automagically gives you level 9.

Seems to me what I remember is true. Spear is probably even better than axe because of when you get orbs. Of course, when we played, we would always use axe, spear, and sword. Those are the manly weapons after all. Tongue

SPEAR DUDE > WHIP GUY!

~~I'm looking at when you get whip's orbs and it just flat-out sucks.~~ Ten times worse when I was looking at a crappy FAQ the first time without all the correct orb locations! Tongue

This is when you get them (before not after):

whip 2: jabberwocky
whip 3: spring beak
whip 4: boreal face
whip 5: metal mantis
whip 6: lime slime
whip 7: hexas
whip 8: dragon worm

sword 2: spiky tiger
sword 3: kilroy
sword 4: mech rider 1
sword 5: metal mantis
sword 6: dopplegangers
sword 7: dragon worm
sword 8: buffy

this means:

sword 2 (spiky tiger, biting lizard, fire gigas, wall face)
sword 3 (KILROY IS TWO WEAPON LEVELS AHEAD!!, jabberwocky)
sword 4 (mech rider 1)
whip 6 (lime slime, blue spike, gorgon bull, dark stalker)
whip 7 (hexas, mech rider 3)
whip 8 (dragon worm, snow dragon, axe beak, red dragon, thunder gigas, blue dragon)

Worth noting that spear and whip are the two types that are ahead for pure land (the other 6 types you get from pure land bosses, the sword in particular you get near the end). I'll try to figure out what this means for weapons sometime later, but whip is way way worse than the sword early on, and "better" later. Only thing is that earlier is much more important than later. Not only are you less dependent on magic, the difference between 11, 8, and 6 str is a lot more significant than 54, 52, 47. Also we have to decide just how much usage the secondary weapons are getting. Since it's a speedrun, it would be nice for the girl and possibly sprite to be attacking later on, but I don't know how feasible. Regulars will be fought and better damage will speed that up. I'm beginning to think swapping in the whip is not a big deal at all. Plus, usually when you need it, it's a lot in a row, so you can keep it for walking through a dungeon if you want.

See what you think, but it looks like the boy should stick to the spear for effectively the whole game.

Ok, I can't help it, here is axe.

axe 2: wall face
axe 3: spring beak
axe 4: doom's wall
axe 5: lime slime
axe 6: dark stalker
axe 7: buffy

Ok, I don't know what the deal is, but I checked multiple FAQs and they're all missing an axe orb. The above would look just too horrible if true.

That's more than enough for today.

Edit: Talked with Rane and the axe progression really is that crappy. For the axe and glove, you need to get the level 8 from the same rare drops you get the level 9. This could mean the axe is too crappy to even use. I should figure out which weapons to use some time.

Yeah, I know how the stacking works. I promise, it really isn't all that important. Also, it does cap at 999 and you can tack on physical hits if you time it right. SD3 has a WAY more important magic bug, which is that time spent in the ring menu counts towards casting time. (!)

I think everyone can agree on kid goblins.

About running out of walnuts for a sec: leaving a dungeon, going to the inn, and coming back looks really stupid, if necessary, but it's still faster than spending all your time leveling magic. Most dungeons in this game are really short if you're just running through them.

Yeah, the best part about leveling mp drain is you can do it forever without resting. Think about all the spell animations and everything though. I'm not convinced it's faster than simply backtracking to an inn if need be (should be really rare, like pure land for example). Also the sprite could have spent that time chipping in damage to kill guys faster.

The weapons in this game are often dictated by the set order you get orbs in, which tends to help the already better ones -- fabulous game balance, lol. Looking at an FAQ, order of sword vs spear orbs you get (simultaneous ie before next Watts on the same line, bosses in between in parens). I did this really quickly and I'm not entirely sure where Watts is, say he's in a dungeon, so this could be very wrong.

sword 2, spear 2
spear 3, sword 3
sword 4 (mech rider 1... here is the one time sword is ahead)
spear 4
spear 5, sword 5
spear 6 (blue spike, gorgon bull, dark stalker)
sword 6
spear 7 (hydra, kettle kin, snap dragon.... possibly hexas and mech rider 3 except any sane person would leave after snap dragon)
sword 7, spear 8 (dragon worm, snow dragon, axe beak, red dragon, thunder gigas, blue dragon)
sword 8

str levels of spear: 4, 11, 16, 23, 29, 38, 46, 54
str levels of sword: 3, 8, 14, 20, 27, 35, 43, 52
str levels of whip: 2, 6, 12, 17, 24, 30, 38, 47

There are only 3 types of weapon strength progressions btw: axe and spear start at 4, sword and bow are 3 (yes, the bow is tied for 2nd strongest), knuckle whip boomerang dart are 2. Since whip is lowest power, it might be worth comparing to bow, but I still think whip is better, plus you need it a lot on the field. Mana Sword is 127 but you don't need level 8, it just automagically gives you level 9.

Seems to me what I remember is true. Spear is probably even better than axe because of when you get orbs. Of course, when we played, we would always use axe, spear, and sword. Those are the manly weapons after all. :P [game=CastlevaniaBloodlines]SPEAR DUDE > WHIP GUY![/game]

[s]I'm looking at when you get whip's orbs and it just flat-out sucks.[/s] Ten times worse when I was looking at a crappy FAQ the first time without all the correct orb locations! :P This is when you get them (before not after):

whip 2: jabberwocky
whip 3: spring beak
whip 4: boreal face
whip 5: metal mantis
whip 6: lime slime
whip 7: hexas
whip 8: dragon worm

sword 2: spiky tiger
sword 3: kilroy
sword 4: mech rider 1
sword 5: metal mantis
sword 6: dopplegangers
sword 7: dragon worm
sword 8: buffy

this means:

sword 2 (spiky tiger, biting lizard, fire gigas, wall face)
sword 3 (KILROY IS TWO WEAPON LEVELS AHEAD!!, jabberwocky)
sword 4 (mech rider 1)
whip 6 (lime slime, blue spike, gorgon bull, dark stalker)
whip 7 (hexas, mech rider 3)
whip 8 (dragon worm, snow dragon, axe beak, red dragon, thunder gigas, blue dragon)

Worth noting that spear and whip are the two types that are ahead for pure land (the other 6 types you get from pure land bosses, the sword in particular you get near the end). I'll try to figure out what this means for weapons sometime later, but whip is way way worse than the sword early on, and "better" later. Only thing is that earlier is much more important than later. Not only are you less dependent on magic, the difference between 11, 8, and 6 str is a lot more significant than 54, 52, 47. Also we have to decide just how much usage the secondary weapons are getting. Since it's a speedrun, it would be nice for the girl and possibly sprite to be attacking later on, but I don't know how feasible. Regulars will be fought and better damage will speed that up. I'm beginning to think swapping in the whip is not a big deal at all. Plus, usually when you need it, it's a lot in a row, so you can keep it for walking through a dungeon if you want.

See what you think, but it looks like the boy should stick to the spear for effectively the whole game.

Ok, I can't help it, here is axe.

axe 2: wall face
axe 3: spring beak
axe 4: doom's wall
axe 5: lime slime
axe 6: dark stalker
axe 7: buffy

Ok, I don't know what the deal is, but I checked multiple FAQs and they're all missing an axe orb. The above would look just too horrible if true.

That's more than enough for today.

Edit: Talked with Rane and the axe progression really is that crappy. For the axe and glove, you need to get the level 8 from the same rare drops you get the level 9. This could mean the axe is too crappy to even use. I should figure out which weapons to use some time.

DoubleThink

2009-10-02 07:46:13 am

There's a word for that

Doink. Looks like two weapons might not be needed after all.

mikwuyma

2009-10-02 08:00:17 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Doublethink: That is a cool glitch, and should make Spiky Tiger x10 times easier, except I wonder how easy it is to work with the AI like that. I'll do some testing tonight.

This is assuming we're going to use the weapon level glitch, and I hope we are because it will make planning way easier, as we won't have to spend much money on weapon orbs at all.

Enhasa, yes, you have to level up weapons to make the glitch work, but you save somewhere around 3 minutes on the Lizard boss, which at least comes close to making up the time needed to level weapons, if it doesn't make it up entirely.

DateHell

2009-10-02 08:14:42 am

po0oq

Wow impressive, who needs 2 players! Cheesy

Thomaz

2009-10-02 03:08:18 pm

Catchin' them all

Quote from Enhasa:

Ok, I can't help it, here is axe.

axe 2: wall face
axe 3: spring beak
axe 4: doom's wall
axe 5: lime slime
axe 6: dark stalker
axe 7: buffy

Ok, I don't know what the deal is, but I checked multiple FAQs and they're all missing an axe orb. The above would look just too horrible if true.

Edit: Talked with Rane and the axe progression really is that crappy. For the axe and glove, you need to get the level 8 from the same rare drops you get the level 9. This could mean the axe is too crappy to even use. I should figure out which weapons to use some time.

Yes, it's true. Whenever I played the game (and I've played it tons), I would always resort to the rare drops to get level 8 and 9. =/

Oh, wow, that's a pretty cool glitch btw. I just gotta try that out sometime. =D

Enhasa

2009-10-02 04:17:08 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

I vaguely remember something about that glitch from a long time ago, I think it was maybe even in Nintendo Power. Would have been the kind of thing I tried out and then forgot about (since it's too broken to want to use). I didn't bring it up because I thought I was misremembering that and somebody else would have said it already if it existed. Anyway, just put "secret of mana" "charge glitch" into google and this is the first result.

I know the no stat glitch is because it's segmented and not because of raw power, but if throwing around the "viewers will call that cheap," this has to rank much higher. I mean, seriously, lol. The run up on the site didn't use anything like this, it's probably even more prudish/suboptimal than the first SOTN run that didn't use anything. We should see if we can obsolete the run with our Magfest run, lol. (I forget what, but I know some things are considered a different category, we could use the stuff that isn't.)

Mike: What do you mean by working with AI? It has nothing to do with AI, you just get past the charge cap check by setting your weapon level below what you have (the same way switching weapons works, but more direct and elegant). Sorry if you already knew that.

I didn't say charge glitch was slower, my only concern is that it's less interesting to watch, which is only magnified by having to level, which is also less interesting to watch.

Anyway, the very first thing we have to do is decide for reals on what glitches we're using. Is our goal to make the fastest speedrun or to be interesting? Then again, we're showing FF6 and that's way more uninteresting than this could ever be already. I'm tempted to say we're not showing the most exciting selection of games, but of course people would rather watch anything from a game they've played than the most fabulous, exciting run of something they haven't, so I think we're doing it right.

I vaguely remember something about that glitch from a long time ago, I think it was maybe even in Nintendo Power. Would have been the kind of thing I tried out and then forgot about (since it's too broken to want to use). I didn't bring it up because I thought I was misremembering that and somebody else would have said it already if it existed. Anyway, just put "secret of mana" "charge glitch" into google and [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU_NvCKdMfY]this[/url] is the first result.

I know the no stat glitch is because it's segmented and not because of raw power, but if throwing around the "viewers will call that cheap," this has to rank much higher. I mean, seriously, lol. The run up on the site didn't use anything like this, it's probably even more prudish/suboptimal than the first SOTN run that didn't use anything. We should see if we can obsolete the run with our Magfest run, lol. (I forget what, but I know some things are considered a different category, we could use the stuff that isn't.)

Mike: What do you mean by working with AI? It has nothing to do with AI, you just get past the charge cap check by setting your weapon level below what you have (the same way switching weapons works, but more direct and elegant). Sorry if you already knew that.

I didn't say charge glitch was slower, my only concern is that it's less interesting to watch, which is only magnified by having to level, which is also less interesting to watch.

Anyway, the very first thing we have to do is decide for reals on what glitches we're using. Is our goal to make the fastest speedrun or to be interesting? Then again, we're showing FF6 and that's way more uninteresting than this could ever be already. I'm tempted to say we're not showing the most exciting selection of games, but of course people would rather watch anything from a game they've played than the most fabulous, exciting run of something they haven't, so I think we're doing it right.

Hattori HANZo

2009-10-02 05:15:27 pm

contraddicted

@ Enhasa

Well, the choice of physical weapons is not dependant on the glitches, so I'll toss my 2 cents at you Grin

I don't have weapon orb locations and the next best smith locations in mind, but from what you say I would really stick to the spear for the boy. And I would use the bow for either the sprite or the girl. Having at least one in your group with a distance weapon makes things a lot easier. Enemies can be hitstunned before someone is in their range and they will get the second hit before being able to recover by the onrushing rest of the group. If you can get this advantage without sacrificing attack power, what could possibly speak against that?
The third weapon, well, err, whatever fits. Axe is too crappy, whip is too weak, maybe just stick to the sword.

As for the question what glitches to use...
That's a tough one. No glitches seems dumb, as magic stacking could be counted and this is something maybe everyone just used. If you wanna appeal to people's memories, maybe just go with that and don't use the charge glitch or other stuff that you don't kind of discover forcibly throughout normal play.

@ Enhasa

Well, the choice of physical weapons is not dependant on the glitches, so I'll toss my 2 cents at you ;D

I don't have weapon orb locations and the next best smith locations in mind, but from what you say I would really stick to the spear for the boy. And I would use the bow for either the sprite or the girl. Having at least one in your group with a distance weapon makes things a lot easier. Enemies can be hitstunned before someone is in their range and they will get the second hit before being able to recover by the onrushing rest of the group. If you can get this advantage without sacrificing attack power, what could possibly speak against that?
The third weapon, well, err, whatever fits. Axe is too crappy, whip is too weak, maybe just stick to the sword.

As for the question what glitches to use...
That's a tough one. No glitches seems dumb, as magic stacking could be counted and this is something maybe everyone just used. If you wanna appeal to people's memories, maybe just go with that and don't use the charge glitch or other stuff that you don't kind of discover forcibly throughout normal play.