Secret of Mana

DateHell

Edit history:

DateHell: 2009-10-03 06:54:56 am

2009-10-03 06:00:40 am

po0oq

Quote from Enhasa:

Mike: What do you mean by working with AI? It has nothing to do with AI, you just get past the charge cap check by setting your weapon level below what you have (the same way switching weapons works, but more direct and elegant). Sorry if you already knew that.

it has everything to do with the AI Smiley

Using the 1-player supercharge glitch, you need to rely on your partymember's AI to hit the enemies
I'll fire up my SNES right now to see if switching control to the glitch-chraged character is possible

edit: right... it's possible to switch to the glitch-charged character but then it'll unleash the attack immediately. First holding the attack button and then switching control is impossible (it simply doesnt switch). Perhaps in a TAS it's possible to switch and start holding the attack button simultaneously but for a speedrun I think it'll be hard to control (though still worth it)

mikwuyma

2009-10-03 10:52:15 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Enhasa:

1. That kind of answer to the new charge glitch sounds like you're really rusty and haven't played the game recently. D: It would be nice if you could do some testing with me and Molotov, because at this point, we're really not confident we can have a run that can consistently get past Spiky Tiger (and no, it's not just because of the dumb AI). Even with the weapon charge glitch, you have to be lucky enough to have enough time to have a charge attack ready when Spiky Tiger is on the ground. After Spiky Tiger things should be okay, but Spiky Tiger is such a big hurdle it needs to be solved.

2. The more important thing (more so with RPGs than anything else because they're long) is that we're playing a game that at least some people know, and according to you, SoM is more popular than FF3 (which I still don't believe, but I know it's still pretty popular). It's more important we can get through the game at a good pace than making sure the game is as entertaining as possible, which is hard to do in most RPGs, IMO

I really really really think we should use the charge glitch, it makes planning a lot easier, and we won't have to spend time leveling up any magic. I know we won't have to level up as much as Seiken even if we don't use the glitch, but still, I think we would have to level up a spell or two if we went the no weapon glitch route.

Enhasa:

1. That kind of answer to the new charge glitch sounds like you're really rusty and haven't played the game recently. D: It would be nice if you could do some testing with me and Molotov, because at this point, we're really not confident we can have a run that can consistently get past Spiky Tiger (and no, it's not just because of the dumb AI). Even with the weapon charge glitch, you have to be lucky enough to have enough time to have a charge attack ready when Spiky Tiger is on the ground. After Spiky Tiger things should be okay, but Spiky Tiger is such a big hurdle it needs to be solved.

2. The more important thing (more so with RPGs than anything else because they're long) is that we're playing a game that at least some people know, and according to you, SoM is more popular than FF3 (which I still don't believe, but I know it's still pretty popular). It's more important we can get through the game at a good pace than making sure the game is as entertaining as possible, which is hard to do in most RPGs, IMO

I really really really think we should use the charge glitch, it makes planning a lot easier, and we won't have to spend time leveling up any magic. I know we won't have to level up as much as Seiken even if we don't use the glitch, but still, I think we would have to level up a spell or two if we went the no weapon glitch route.

Hattori HANZo

Edit history:

Hattori HANZo: 2009-10-04 06:38:22 am

2009-10-04 05:20:50 am

contraddicted

I did test a little to see how reliable Spiky Tiger can get.
I went for a Chain Vest, a Power Wrist, the 90GP helmet, the sword orb and some candy. I earned the money for that on some green slimes with the boomerang. If you go outside the dwarf village to the left, there's a green slime that you can lure into the small passage towards the step. The boomerang keeps you in a safe distance and hits all three slimes most of the time.
I spend a little too much time on that, cause after shopping i had a 100GP left.

With the Vest, Wrist and Helmet the werewolves around 3 to 7 damage per hit. No problem with that Wink

Spiky Tiger himself also got pretty harmless. With about 100 health and less than 20 damage from a usual hit you don't need to candy-cancel normal hits. With a second player alive you also don't have to worry about getting engulfed. Otherwise you should make sure to take a candy the instant he starts casting. Otherwise you might get fried. The Fire Breath alone does not kill you, but Spiky tiger likes to add his other fire spell to finish you off.

Edit:
I went on a bit and it went pretty easy. Take the way back to the water palace with the whip and go directly to the cave. The boss there is not a real challenge.
Via cannon back to the dwarf village and into the earth palace. Just run through. Some physical hits and the remaining frost waves finish off the boss. Just make sure to heal at the right moment.
I noticed that i missed the magic rope. At this point you should have it, because it takes you back to the entrance in an instant. This might already be true for the witch's castle!

In Pandora you have to find Phanna and hurry to the ruins, through which you just run without getting stoppped by the enemies. Remember to np at the inn, or you will end with no MP in front of the wall. (happened to me ;D)
The fight against the wall needs a bit of tactic, or you might get squashed against the spikes. Best to me seems:
Kill the right eye as fast as possible. When it gets revived, kill it as fast as possible. Else it heals the wall itself. When the right eye is dead, position the boy between the left eye and the wall's center. This way he will hit both with one strike and shield the rest against the eye's physical attacks. The girl and the sprite should attack the wall itself, to weaken it before the left eye goes down. When it then starts to move, cast that jewel spell until you're out of magic and use physical attacks until the wall is down.

With a little leveling and equipment, Spiky Tiger is passable and past him it goes nice and fast Smiley

I did test a little to see how reliable Spiky Tiger can get.
I went for a Chain Vest, a Power Wrist, the 90GP helmet, the sword orb and some candy. I earned the money for that on some green slimes with the boomerang. If you go outside the dwarf village to the left, there's a green slime that you can lure into the small passage towards the step. The boomerang keeps you in a safe distance and hits all three slimes most of the time.
I spend a little too much time on that, cause after shopping i had a 100GP left.

With the Vest, Wrist and Helmet the werewolves around 3 to 7 damage per hit. No problem with that ;)

Spiky Tiger himself also got pretty harmless. With about 100 health and less than 20 damage from a usual hit you don't need to candy-cancel normal hits. With a second player alive you also don't have to worry about getting engulfed. Otherwise you should make sure to take a candy the instant he starts casting. Otherwise you might get fried. The Fire Breath alone does not kill you, but Spiky tiger likes to add his other fire spell to finish you off.

Edit:
I went on a bit and it went pretty easy. Take the way back to the water palace with the whip and go directly to the cave. The boss there is not a real challenge.
Via cannon back to the dwarf village and into the earth palace. Just run through. Some physical hits and the remaining frost waves finish off the boss. Just make sure to heal at the right moment.
I noticed that i missed the magic rope. At this point you should have it, because it takes you back to the entrance in an instant. This might already be true for the witch's castle!

In Pandora you have to find Phanna and hurry to the ruins, through which you just run without getting stoppped by the enemies. Remember to np at the inn, or you will end with no MP in front of the wall. (happened to me ;D)
The fight against the wall needs a bit of tactic, or you might get squashed against the spikes. Best to me seems:
Kill the right eye as fast as possible. When it gets revived, kill it as fast as possible. Else it heals the wall itself. When the right eye is dead, position the boy between the left eye and the wall's center. This way he will hit both with one strike and shield the rest against the eye's physical attacks. The girl and the sprite should attack the wall itself, to weaken it before the left eye goes down. When it then starts to move, cast that jewel spell until you're out of magic  and use physical attacks until the wall is down.

With a little leveling and equipment, Spiky Tiger is passable and past him it goes nice and fast :)

mikwuyma

2009-10-04 10:00:03 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Eviljogga: At the Witch's castle you can just talk to the witch after picking up the treasure and she teleports you right outside of the castle.

Enhasa

2009-10-04 12:25:41 pm

everybody wanna tell you the meaning of music

Ok, charge glitch it is then. Magic is lame anyway.

Molotov

Edit history:

Molotov: 2009-10-04 05:27:36 pm

2009-10-04 12:47:53 pm

I'm fairly sure I fixed the Spikey problem. I told Mike and Nitrodon about the idea, and tests have been quite promising. These tests were done with 1 or 2 human players, so obviously things would be even easier in the marathon. Also consider that my charge glitch timing is bad, so that will be easier at MAGFest as well (assuming I'm not playing the boy, that is).

Here's the plan (could easily be changed, but this is how I do it):

Requirements: All three characters alive. Shouldn't be THAT hard with human players instead of AI.

1. Boy and girl move down-left (to the corner) at the start of the fight. The Sprite just goes straight down.
2. After Spikey lands, move the Sprite into Spikey's mouth (whether it matters or not, player 3 shouldn't resist the munching). Begin charging with the boy.
3. Player 2 swaps weapons with the boy as quickly as possible (time is somewhat short).
4. Let the weapon charge and go go one-hit kill.

For added safety, unleash the weapon glitch on Spikey's left side. Spikey sometimes like to magically grab and snack on the boy while unleashing the charge, so staying away from his face probably helps.

[Edit]: To give you an idea of how reliable this is, note that I had my sister control players 2 and 3 at 100% speed. Managed to come away with a couple victories and at least hit Spikey with the glitch a few other times. Considering the fact that I just told her what to do before/during practice (that only lasted about 5 minutes or so), I'd say that's a very nice success rate.

[Edit 2]: Also, for the record, the wall is pretty easy. The only real problem is that the boy tends to get nailed with magic, which can throw off your weapon glitch timing. I use the axe for unleashing it and had little trouble winning, so I bet things will be easier in the actual run. (Thanks to the ranged weapon which we'll need to use on Spring Beak.)

[Edit 3]: Upon further testing, I've realized that Spring Beak is near impossible to touch with a ranged weapon. Magic should definitely be used here. Maybe Spring Beak is just offended that I'm using the standard whip or something. Tongue

Also, I found a nice little level up spot in the Upper Lands (if necessary). Enter the room before Spring Beak, leave, and hide behind the rocks on the left. Three Rabite clones will get stuck on the other side of those rocks, so you can just pick them all off with the whip. 273 experience and 237 GP per trip isn't bad, considering there really isn't any risk involved. I suppose one of them might use magic on you, but meh.

[Edit 4]: It seems the freaking Pole Dart can hit Spring Beak consistently, even when he's up on a platform. Finally a use for a weapon I like! I'll level it up and continue on, but hopefully I won't be overleveled because of it.

By the way, I just killed Spring Beak using the weapon glitch with the Pole Dart. Worked like a charm. Smiley

I'm fairly sure I fixed the Spikey problem. I told Mike and Nitrodon about the idea, and tests have been quite promising. These tests were done with 1 or 2 human players, so obviously things would be even easier in the marathon. Also consider that my charge glitch timing is bad, so that will be easier at MAGFest as well (assuming I'm not playing the boy, that is).

Here's the plan (could easily be changed, but this is how I do it):

Requirements: All three characters alive. Shouldn't be THAT hard with human players instead of AI.

1. Boy and girl move down-left (to the corner) at the start of the fight. The Sprite just goes straight down.
2. After Spikey lands, move the Sprite into Spikey's mouth (whether it matters or not, player 3 shouldn't resist the munching). Begin charging with the boy.
3. Player 2 swaps weapons with the boy as quickly as possible (time is somewhat short).
4. Let the weapon charge and go go one-hit kill.

For added safety, unleash the weapon glitch on Spikey's left side. Spikey sometimes like to magically grab and snack on the boy while unleashing the charge, so staying away from his face probably helps.

[Edit]: To give you an idea of how reliable this is, note that I had my sister control players 2 and 3 at 100% speed. Managed to come away with a couple victories and at least hit Spikey with the glitch a few other times. Considering the fact that I just told her what to do before/during practice (that only lasted about 5 minutes or so), I'd say that's a very nice success rate.

[Edit 2]: Also, for the record, the wall is pretty easy. The only real problem is that the boy tends to get nailed with magic, which can throw off your weapon glitch timing. I use the axe for unleashing it and had little trouble winning, so I bet things will be easier in the actual run. (Thanks to the ranged weapon which we'll need to use on Spring Beak.)

[Edit 3]: Upon further testing, I've realized that Spring Beak is near impossible to touch with a ranged weapon. Magic should definitely be used here. Maybe Spring Beak is just offended that I'm using the standard whip or something. :P

Also, I found a nice little level up spot in the Upper Lands (if necessary). Enter the room before Spring Beak, leave, and hide behind the rocks on the left. Three Rabite clones will get stuck on the other side of those rocks, so you can just pick them all off with the whip. 273 experience and 237 GP per trip isn't bad, considering there really isn't any risk involved. I suppose one of them might use magic on you, but meh.

[Edit 4]: It seems the freaking Pole Dart can hit Spring Beak consistently, even when he's up on a platform. Finally a use for a weapon I like! I'll level it up and continue on, but hopefully I won't be overleveled because of it.

By the way, I just killed Spring Beak using the weapon glitch with the Pole Dart. Worked like a charm. :)

Hattori HANZo

2009-10-04 04:48:33 pm

contraddicted

I rushed in single player until the Emperor's Castle.
After Jabberwocky it really gets easy. I bought equipment once in Matango and on the frosty island. No problems with damage. You should take a walnut with you as soon as you can buy it regularly, though. And be it only for healing when you use the charge glitch.

DateHell

2009-10-05 11:01:17 am

po0oq

Hmmm back to the wall glitch.... am I doing something wrong or is there a version difference?

Boy starts with 204064 XP
Girls starts with 197871 XP
I have 1-player control over boy
I let the sprite cast fireball on a knight with Wall
Spell is reflected, killing (only) girl in the progress
Boy still has 204064 XP

RaneofSOTN

2009-10-05 02:07:45 pm

I want off the ride....

Quote from DateHell:

Hmmm back to the wall glitch.... am I doing something wrong or is there a version difference?

Boy starts with 204064 XP
Girls starts with 197871 XP
I have 1-player control over boy
I let the sprite cast fireball on a knight with Wall
Spell is reflected, killing (only) girl in the progress
Boy still has 204064 XP

I dont know if you have to cast wall yourself or if it doesn't matter if its naturally occuring. But I know that generally that you have to be able to kill the girl with the spell (1 cast) or else it might not work properly... Not fully sure, and its hard to find information on this glitch specifically.

Molotov

2009-10-06 01:50:30 am

I just hit the biggest snag since Spikey...and his name is Gorgon Bull. I've tried a few times and I just don't think weapon glitching that guy is going to work out at all. Probably a given due to HP on later bosses and what-not, but this guy just confirms it. Freaking level 8 Earth Slide is either a one-hit kill (he seems to use it on everyone too) or darn close. His charge attack is definitely a one-hit kill, though my armor is bad: Tiger Cap x 3, Power Wrist x 2, Spiky Suit, and base armor for the flunkies.

I managed to make it through Blue Spike by using the Spikey plan at the start to buy time. If the Sprite can take a second hit, it might not be a terrible idea to do it again when Blue Spike comes back down to ground level. His fake death gives plenty of time to weapon glitch, so that shouldn't be a problem at all. If it matters, I've been doing a lot of double switching to save in-game time. Definitely worth doing in the real run to reduce risk for some fights.

Also worth mentioning is that the first room of Gold Tower is pure evil. Those two wolves at the start were killing me in 2-3 hits. Heck, I've even seen the flunkies get killed in one shot each...at the same time. Has something to do with the awful battle system in this game, I'm sure.

Maybe I should just go back to Northtown, upgrade my armor, and come back? I can't afford anything better than 1 Dragon Helmet in Gold City (bleh). I'll give that a shot, but I still think magic is the way to go here. Also worth noting that Vampire is a good target for magic as well, because he likes to spend centuries in the air. He has enough HP to require multiple hits and likes to cast status magic in the air too. >:|

On the bright side, I might have figured out a way to make Mech Rider 2 look really stupid (not hard, I know). The savestate was likely causing the same results, but standing in that bottom gap on the right seemed to confuse him. Hit him once and still had time to hit him with the glitch again, because he just kept moving to the left very slowly. Someone else should test that to see if it was a fluke.

I just hit the biggest snag since Spikey...and his name is Gorgon Bull. I've tried a few times and I just don't think weapon glitching that guy is going to work out at all. Probably a given due to HP on later bosses and what-not, but this guy just confirms it. Freaking [b]level 8[/b] Earth Slide is either a one-hit kill (he seems to use it on everyone too) or darn close. His charge attack is definitely a one-hit kill, though my armor is bad: Tiger Cap x 3, Power Wrist x 2, Spiky Suit, and base armor for the flunkies.

I managed to make it through Blue Spike by using the Spikey plan at the start to buy time. If the Sprite can take a second hit, it might not be a terrible idea to do it again when Blue Spike comes back down to ground level. His fake death gives plenty of time to weapon glitch, so that shouldn't be a problem at all. If it matters, I've been doing a lot of double switching to save in-game time. Definitely worth doing in the real run to reduce risk for some fights.

Also worth mentioning is that the first room of Gold Tower is pure evil. Those two wolves at the start were killing me in 2-3 hits. Heck, I've even seen the flunkies get killed in one shot each...at the same time. Has something to do with the awful battle system in this game, I'm sure.

Maybe I should just go back to Northtown, upgrade my armor, and come back? I can't afford anything better than 1 Dragon Helmet in Gold City (bleh). I'll give that a shot, but I still think magic is the way to go here. Also worth noting that Vampire is a good target for magic as well, because he likes to spend centuries in the air. He has enough HP to require multiple hits and likes to cast status magic in the air too. >:|

On the bright side, I might have figured out a way to make Mech Rider 2 look really stupid (not hard, I know). The savestate was likely causing the same results, but standing in that bottom gap on the right seemed to confuse him. Hit him once and still had time to hit him with the glitch again, because he just kept moving to the left very slowly. Someone else should test that to see if it was a fluke.

DateHell

Edit history:

DateHell: 2009-10-06 02:43:56 am

2009-10-06 02:37:07 am

po0oq

I found it very easy to avoid Gordon Bull's physical attacks, which means you 'just' need to luck out on his spells

Hmm I'm a bit fuzzy here... is the order of Palace of Darkness and Gold City a free choice? (if so, what's yours?)

for bosses in general, you can use the girl's magic (analyzer at 1MP) to keep them in a place you want (e.g. Vampire on the ground)... which also stops the boss from attacking/casting and gives you some time to glitch-charge. Not sure whether this is way obvious or if you can afford the MP
if you can manage gold city's bosses before buying stuff, then you'll gain 8640 from spike+gordon. Maybe you can spend the GP in kakkara on your way to the Moon Palace?
edit: in Kakkara you get 3x (Golden Vest, Silver Band, Raccoon Cap) for 10K... haven't really though whether or not it's best to spend money on only chest rather than chest+cap or not, and I don't know the reasons for/against either Tongue

not sure what you mean by double-switching... I'm guessing that you're using the same weapon to do a glitch-charge with both characters (do the lvl2-charge while the other glitches)

Hope I'm not telling you overly obvious things here Tongue

I found it very easy to avoid Gordon Bull's physical attacks, which means you 'just' need to luck out on his spells

Hmm I'm a bit fuzzy here... is the order of Palace of Darkness and Gold City a free choice? (if so, what's yours?)

for bosses in general, you can use the girl's magic (analyzer at 1MP) to keep them in a place you want (e.g. Vampire on the ground)... which also stops the boss from attacking/casting and gives you some time to glitch-charge. Not sure whether this is way obvious or if you can afford the MP
if you can manage gold city's bosses before buying stuff, then you'll gain 8640 from spike+gordon. Maybe you can spend the GP in kakkara on your way to the Moon Palace?
edit: in Kakkara you get 3x (Golden Vest, Silver Band, Raccoon Cap) for 10K... haven't really though whether or not it's best to spend money on only chest rather than chest+cap or not, and I don't know the reasons for/against either :P

not sure what you mean by double-switching... I'm guessing that you're using the same weapon to do a glitch-charge with both characters (do the lvl2-charge while the other glitches)

Hope I'm not telling you overly obvious things here :P

Molotov

Edit history:

Molotov: 2009-10-06 12:21:08 pm

2009-10-06 02:58:55 am

Quote from DateHell:

I found it very easy to avoid Gordon Bull's physical attacks, which means you 'just' need to luck out on his spells

It's probably easy enough to dodge, but the AI just waits to get hit by the bus and charging makes you so slow. That said, I'm sure it would be best to minimize luck (especially at that point). Chain casting is the way to go at some point anyway, if you ask me.

Quote:

Hmm I'm a bit fuzzy here... is the order of Palace of Darkness and Gold City a free choice? (if so, what's yours?)

I noticed that in a FAQ after making that post. Was going to make an edit about my stupidity in choosing Gold City first, but left it alone in case it would go under the radar. I guess not. Tongue

Quote:

for bosses in general, you can use the girl's magic (analyzer at 1MP) to keep them in a place you want (e.g. Vampire on the ground)... which also stops the boss from attacking/casting and gives you some time to glitch-charge. Not sure whether this is way obvious or if you can afford the MP

Seriously? Dude, that's awesome. I always used attack magic (or sometimes Speed Down for generics) to keep enemies in place, but this sounds much better. Thanks. Smiley

Quote:

if you can manage gold city's bosses before buying stuff, then you'll gain 8640 from spike+gordon. Maybe you can spend the GP in kakkara on your way to the Moon Palace?

Hm, I'll have to keep that in mind. As long as I can get decent armor for two people, I'll probably be fine for a while. The low level FAQ mentions awesome drops from the knights in Shade's palace (Gauntlet?!), but I'm sure that's not even reasonable in a single-segment. ~~Though maybe we should kill a few anyway and hope for the best?~~

Quote:

not sure what you mean by double-switching... I'm guessing that you're using the same weapon to do a glitch-charge with both characters (do the lvl2-charge while the other glitches)

Charge a level 1 weapon, switch for a level 2+ weapon, and then switch back. The meter will automagically go from 1 to maximum when you switch the first time, so you cut your charge time in half. Very convenient.

[Edit]: It seems the double switch only gives you 1 free charge level. That's usually enough anyway, so that's not a problem.

Also, I did manage to kill Gorgon Bull without new equipment. Used Analyzer on him once or twice, but the main reason I won was due to ~~heavy savestate abuse~~ Remedy invincibility. The idiot likes to strike a pose before casting Earth Slide, so that was my cue to cast Remedy. This worked well unless he decided to double cast. Perhaps someone could use two Medical Herbs when he does that (since the girl is still recovering from the casting)?

Worth noting that he randomly decides to be a jerk and cast Earth Slide right after you've taken damage from something. Always fun to mess up and get tagged by the first spell and then get finished off before you get the chance to do anything else. >_<

As for equipment shopping, I'm going to go buy the Tiger Suit and Tiger Bikini and make them last. The stuff in Kakkara is weaker than I remember it being, so that won't work out. The Magical Armor is really nice (78 defense = whee!), but I can't afford two. The Tiger Suit/Bikini offer nice defense for the cost, so it should be ok for now.

[quote="DateHell"]I found it very easy to avoid Gordon Bull's physical attacks, which means you 'just' need to luck out on his spells[/quote]

It's probably easy enough to dodge, but the AI just waits to get hit by the bus and charging makes you so slow. That said, I'm sure it would be best to minimize luck (especially at that point). Chain casting is the way to go at some point anyway, if you ask me.

[quote]Hmm I'm a bit fuzzy here... is the order of Palace of Darkness and Gold City a free choice? (if so, what's yours?)[/quote]

I noticed that in a FAQ after making that post. Was going to make an edit about my stupidity in choosing Gold City first, but left it alone in case it would go under the radar. I guess not. :P

[quote]for bosses in general, you can use the girl's magic (analyzer at 1MP) to keep them in a place you want (e.g. Vampire on the ground)... which also stops the boss from attacking/casting and gives you some time to glitch-charge. Not sure whether this is way obvious or if you can afford the MP[/quote]

Seriously? Dude, that's awesome. I always used attack magic (or sometimes Speed Down for generics) to keep enemies in place, but this sounds much better. Thanks. :)

[quote]if you can manage gold city's bosses before buying stuff, then you'll gain 8640 from spike+gordon. Maybe you can spend the GP in kakkara on your way to the Moon Palace?[/quote]

Hm, I'll have to keep that in mind. As long as I can get decent armor for two people, I'll probably be fine for a while. The low level FAQ mentions awesome drops from the knights in Shade's palace (Gauntlet?!), but I'm sure that's not even reasonable in a single-segment. [s]Though maybe we should kill a few anyway and hope for the best?[/s]

[quote]not sure what you mean by double-switching... I'm guessing that you're using the same weapon to do a glitch-charge with both characters (do the lvl2-charge while the other glitches)[/quote]

Charge a level 1 weapon, switch for a level 2+ weapon, and then switch back. The meter will automagically go from 1 to maximum when you switch the first time, so you cut your charge time in half. Very convenient.

[Edit]: It seems the double switch only gives you 1 free charge level. That's usually enough anyway, so that's not a problem.

Also, I did manage to kill Gorgon Bull without new equipment. Used Analyzer on him once or twice, but the main reason I won was due to [s]heavy savestate abuse[/s] Remedy invincibility. The idiot likes to strike a pose before casting Earth Slide, so that was my cue to cast Remedy. This worked well unless he decided to double cast. Perhaps someone could use two Medical Herbs when he does that (since the girl is still recovering from the casting)?

Worth noting that he randomly decides to be a jerk and cast Earth Slide right after you've taken damage from something. Always fun to mess up and get tagged by the first spell and then get finished off before you get the chance to do anything else. >_<

As for equipment shopping, I'm going to go buy the Tiger Suit and Tiger Bikini and make them last. The stuff in Kakkara is weaker than I remember it being, so that won't work out. The Magical Armor is really nice (78 defense = whee!), but I can't afford two. The Tiger Suit/Bikini offer nice defense for the cost, so it should be ok for now.

Hattori HANZo

2009-10-06 03:49:21 pm

contraddicted

On my testrun I went for one screen of wolves on the frozen island and bought the stuff there (same as in Kakkara). This should be good enough for the Night Palace at least. If you go for less enemy killing (could work out with human players) this could be too expensive at this point though.
It will be interesting to see Pureland with Tiger Suits though. I can't really estimate, but this could maybe be too little defense...

@ DateHell
Yes, you can do Gold Tower before Night Palace. In a low level run I wouldn't recommend it though, as the enemies and especially the boss are way easier in the intended order.

RaneofSOTN

2009-10-06 05:05:24 pm

I want off the ride....

Quote from RaneofSOTN:

Quote from DateHell:

Hmmm back to the wall glitch.... am I doing something wrong or is there a version difference?

Boy starts with 204064 XP
Girls starts with 197871 XP
I have 1-player control over boy
I let the sprite cast fireball on a knight with Wall
Spell is reflected, killing (only) girl in the progress
Boy still has 204064 XP

I dont know if you have to cast wall yourself or if it doesn't matter if its naturally occuring. But I know that generally that you have to be able to kill the girl with the spell (1 cast) or else it might not work properly... Not fully sure, and its hard to find information on this glitch specifically.

handy video with stuff on the wall glitch; if for anyone who wants to really run with full glitches...
well by this... the guy who posted should get 1263 exp...

DateHell

2009-10-07 01:54:40 am

po0oq

Quote from RaneofSOTN:

Quote from DateHell:

Hmmm back to the wall glitch.... am I doing something wrong or is there a version difference?

Boy starts with 204064 XP
Girls starts with 197871 XP
I have 1-player control over boy
I let the sprite cast fireball on a knight with Wall
Spell is reflected, killing (only) girl in the progress
Boy still has 204064 XP

I dont know if you have to cast wall yourself or if it doesn't matter if its naturally occuring. But I know that generally that you have to be able to kill the girl with the spell (1 cast) or else it might not work properly... Not fully sure, and its hard to find information on this glitch specifically.

handy video with stuff on the wall glitch; if for anyone who wants to really run with full glitches...
well by this... the guy who posted should get 1263 exp...

yeah that's what I based my approach on.... and yes I did expect 197871`MOD`FFFF XP.... but I didn't get anything Sad

That's why I asked here if anybody knows why Im not getting anything or whether I'm doing something wrong Tongue

[quote="RaneofSOTN"]
[quote="RaneofSOTN"]
[quote="DateHell"]
Hmmm back to the wall glitch.... am I doing something wrong or is there a version difference?

Boy starts with 204064 XP
Girls starts with 197871 XP
I have 1-player control over boy
I let the sprite cast fireball on a knight with Wall
Spell is reflected, killing (only) girl in the progress
Boy still has 204064 XP
[/quote]
I dont know if you have to cast wall yourself or if it doesn't matter if its naturally occuring. But I know that generally that you have to be able to kill the girl with the spell (1 cast) or else it might not work properly... Not fully sure, and its hard to find information on this glitch specifically.
[/quote]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joajlbigeVs&feature=rec-HM-fresh+div
handy video with stuff on the wall glitch; if for anyone who wants to really run with full glitches...
well by this... the guy who posted should get 1263 exp...
[/quote]

yeah that's what I based my approach on.... and yes I did expect 197871`MOD`FFFF XP.... but I didn't get anything :( That's why I asked here if anybody knows why Im not getting anything or whether I'm doing something wrong :P

Molotov

2009-10-08 01:51:32 am

Quote from EvilJogga:

It will be interesting to see Pureland with Tiger Suits though. I can't really estimate, but this could maybe be too little defense...

You are definitely right about that. I just got there recently and one hit is fatal for the flunkies (two for the boy) in most cases. Note that I bought two Needle Helmets for the boy and girl. 239 total defense for the boy, by the way. Sad

Speaking of Pure Land, I would like to mention something that may be worth a facepalm or two:

Quote:

<@Enhasa> pure land is ez
...
<@Enhasa> the only thing that is dangerous is getting locked in an infinite loop while walking around lol
<@Enhasa> but that's only an issue 1p

Fun fact: You can't get stun locked when you die in one hit anyway. >_<

(Enhasa, if you're reading this, I would really like to hear a detailed explanation of what to do there. Not just "dodge the enemies lol.")

Anyway, I only have two more things worth noting:

1. The shortcut in the Sunken Palace is worthless because you can't hit the colorful buttons. Did I miss something?
2. Two weapon glitch users would make Hexas FAR less annoying (if we're still relying on it by then). Dispel Magic = >:|

[quote="EvilJogga"]It will be interesting to see Pureland with Tiger Suits though. I can't really estimate, but this could maybe be too little defense...[/quote]

You are definitely right about that. I just got there recently and one hit is fatal for the flunkies (two for the boy) in most cases. Note that I bought two Needle Helmets for the boy and girl. 239 total defense for the boy, by the way. :(

Speaking of Pure Land, I would like to mention something that may be worth a facepalm or two:

[quote]<@Enhasa> pure land is ez
...
<@Enhasa> the only thing that is dangerous is getting locked in an infinite loop while walking around lol
<@Enhasa> but that's only an issue 1p[/quote]

Fun fact: You can't get stun locked when you die in one hit anyway. >_<

(Enhasa, if you're reading this, I would [i]really[/i] like to hear a detailed explanation of what to do there. Not just "dodge the enemies lol.")

Anyway, I only have two more things worth noting:

1. The shortcut in the Sunken Palace is worthless because you can't hit the colorful buttons. Did I miss something?
2. Two weapon glitch users would make Hexas FAR less annoying (if we're still relying on it by then). Dispel Magic = >:|

Hattori HANZo

2009-10-08 08:08:46 am

contraddicted

Quote from Molotov:

You are definitely right about that. I just got there recently and one hit is fatal for the flunkies (two for the boy) in most cases. Note that I bought two Needle Helmets for the boy and girl. 239 total defense for the boy, by the way. Sad

I hoped I was wrong. Are the needle helmets those from Neko on the sunken continent after it re-sunk?
I guess there won't be much else as an option than grind for money and buy better armor. Maybe the more expensive stuff from Gold City might do it, maybe you'll need additional levels or even go for Neko's ultra expensive shit Sad

For Pureland I still think the best option is to use MP drain and Earth Slide for killing enemies or Gem Rain to keep them stunned, run by and have them killed while you leave the screen.

mikwuyma

2009-10-08 08:11:58 am

My feelings on The Demon Rush

IIRC, even in normal playthroughs Pure Land enemies do tons of damage until you buy a full set of Neko's gear. Also, wouldn't it be a better idea to equip one person with good armor (probably the girl), than spreading the armor across two people.

BTW, doesn't the armor provide more defense? Wouldn't that be a better idea than the helmet? I know the helmet has more even defense and magic defense, but the armor and gauntlets provide a bigger overall boost (IIRC, it was 240/90)

Molotov

Edit history:

Molotov: 2009-10-08 02:55:33 pm

2009-10-08 02:47:57 pm

Quote from EvilJogga:

I hoped I was wrong. Are the needle helmets those from Neko on the sunken continent after it re-sunk? I guess there won't be much else as an option than grind for money and buy better armor. Maybe the more expensive stuff from Gold City might do it, maybe you'll need additional levels or even go for Neko's ultra expensive shit Sad

Yeah, I bought those helmets from Neko. I'm thinking that I should just go back to Shade's palace and kill off party members for experience/gold, but this wouldn't help my magic levels much. I'm not confident about being able to win against the Pure Land bosses (except Thunder Gigas, since he's slow) with the weapon glitch alone, you know? Could just be paranoia though.

I could also try Lucid Barrier spamming to survive a few screens, but I'm not sure how effective it is. A level 0 Lucid Barrier should block at least 1 hit for each party member, right? The problem is getting smoked while waiting for her to cast it. Tongue

~~Maybe I need to use level 0 Balloon!~~

Quote from mikwuyma:

IIRC, even in normal playthroughs Pure Land enemies do tons of damage until you buy a full set of Neko's gear. Also, wouldn't it be a better idea to equip one person with good armor (probably the girl), than spreading the armor across two people.

I've been sticking to two people because I don't like the idea of getting stomped by freak hits (which you know this game is full of). It has worked well until now, at least. :/

Quote:

BTW, doesn't the armor provide more defense? Wouldn't that be a better idea than the helmet? I know the helmet has more even defense and magic defense, but the armor and gauntlets provide a bigger overall boost (IIRC, it was 240/90)

The armor gives 100 more defense than the helmet. I had like 64,xxx GP right before Neko, so I think I could sell the Tiger Bikini to purchase a Vestguard. I'm not really convinced it's worthwhile to buy just that one thing though. But then again, it's completely obvious that the Needle Helmet isn't doing the girl any good right now...

I'll put more effort into it tonight, since I didn't try very hard last time.

[Edit]: Level 0 Ice Saber? Hm, that's an interesting thought.

[quote="EvilJogga"]I hoped I was wrong. Are the needle helmets those from Neko on the sunken continent after it re-sunk? I guess there won't be much else as an option than grind for money and buy better armor. Maybe the more expensive stuff from Gold City might do it, maybe you'll need additional levels or even go for Neko's ultra expensive shit :([/quote]

Yeah, I bought those helmets from Neko. I'm thinking that I should just go back to Shade's palace and kill off party members for experience/gold, but this wouldn't help my magic levels much. I'm not confident about being able to win against the Pure Land bosses (except Thunder Gigas, since he's slow) with the weapon glitch alone, you know? Could just be paranoia though.

I could also try Lucid Barrier spamming to survive a few screens, but I'm not sure how effective it is. A level 0 Lucid Barrier should block at least 1 hit for each party member, right? The problem is getting smoked while waiting for her to cast it. :P

[s]Maybe I need to use level 0 Balloon![/s]

[quote="mikwuyma"]
IIRC, even in normal playthroughs Pure Land enemies do tons of damage until you buy a full set of Neko's gear. Also, wouldn't it be a better idea to equip one person with good armor (probably the girl), than spreading the armor across two people.[/quote]

I've been sticking to two people because I don't like the idea of getting stomped by freak hits (which you know this game is full of). It has worked well until now, at least. :/

[quote]BTW, doesn't the armor provide more defense? Wouldn't that be a better idea than the helmet? I know the helmet has more even defense and magic defense, but the armor and gauntlets provide a bigger overall boost (IIRC, it was 240/90)[/quote]

The armor gives 100 more defense than the helmet. I had like 64,xxx GP right before Neko, so I think I could sell the Tiger Bikini to purchase a Vestguard. I'm not really convinced it's worthwhile to buy just that one thing though. But then again, it's completely obvious that the Needle Helmet isn't doing the girl any good right now...

I'll put more effort into it tonight, since I didn't try very hard last time.

[Edit]: Level 0 Ice Saber? Hm, that's an interesting thought.

mikwuyma

2009-10-08 02:49:37 pm

My feelings on The Demon Rush

Oh, in that case, would buying a needle helmet and a gauntlet for one person be more helpful?

Hattori HANZo

2009-10-08 08:28:42 pm

contraddicted

Quote from Molotov:

[Edit]: Level 0 Ice Saber? Hm, that's an interesting thought.

I should try how far a single magic gets you in Pureland. IIRC, earth magic pretty much helps against everything if high enough. Hmm, I need to think about this some more...

But a tip:
Ice Saber has the same level as Cure Water. And if you keep it below 4 until Pureland, I would be impressed Grin

DateHell

2009-10-09 10:19:07 am

po0oq

Quote from Molotov:

The armor gives 100 more defense than the helmet. I had like 64,xxx GP right before Neko, so I think I could sell the Tiger Bikini to purchase a Vestguard. I'm not really convinced it's worthwhile to buy just that one thing though. But then again, it's completely obvious that the Needle Helmet isn't doing the girl any good right now...

[Edit]: Level 0 Ice Saber? Hm, that's an interesting thought.

well if the wall-glitch works like i expect it will, then you should have ~260K GP if you perform it twice.. enough for 2 full grand-palace-neko sets! (unfortunately can't test that.... for reason i still don't know)

of course you'd be way cool if you don't need high armor Smiley

any-lvl ice saber sounds cool Smiley

Molotov

Edit history:

Molotov: 2009-10-14 03:12:12 am

2009-10-12 02:44:46 am

I finally completed the first practice run (wow laziness). Notable things from the Snow Dragon on:

1. The Snow Dragon is a complete biotch to kill. Salamando takes ten years to level up and my trusty level 5 Gnome was useless on him. Heck, the only reason I won without further grinding is because the moron glitched himself off the screen. He flew off to the right and never came back, so all I could see was his left wing (maybe tail too) as he moved up and down. Grabbed my trusty Pole Dart and gave him a bunch of standard hits, since the weapon glitch caused my attacks to miss.

After a bunch of 200%+ speed hits, I eventually started missing all the time. I tried moving around and using other weapons, but nothing worked. I figured I was screwed at that point, but then the thing magically exploded as I approached the entrance. O_O

And since haws should be shared, here's a special SMV for what I just described.

2. Axe Beak and the Fire Dragon are both complete wimps that even a level 4/5 Undine killed with ease. Didn't even waste my time trying the weapon glitch (this applies to many future bosses as well).

3. The Thunder Gigas and Blue Dragon were easy. Thank you, 5/6 Gnome.

4. The Mana Fortress is a freaking nightmare for just one player to run through. To make things even better, I even had to go ALL the way back and restock my items after Dread Slime. >:|

5. 5/6 Gnome wasn't very useful on Buffy. I was averaging about 150 or so per Gem Missile, so the fight lasted forever. Could've tried the weapon glitch, but I'm too lazy (and that enemy type is hard to hit anyway).

6. Dread Slime is ridiculously easy. Level 0 Wall + weapon glitch = yawn.

7. The Dark Lich is easy too! Whee! I practically just stood on his left side and won by using items at the right time. Used the weapon glitch the entire time too. He has long fade-in/out times though, which can screw up your attack timing a bit.

8. The Mana Beast is also easy. Remedy dodge -> charge 1 -> Remedy dodge (if you had Wall from the fight with the Dark Lich, wait a bit and use Cure Water instead) -> Moon Energy -> switch -> switch -> attack. Use Cure Water whenever you see Lucent Beam and then repeat the attack pattern. Remedy dodge the side attack and use a Faerie Walnut here if necessary.

Now that I've explained something completely obvious, I'd like to note that the Mana Beast randomly decides to become a homicidal maniac. I remember seeing the freak cast Lucent Beam on the boy like 4 times in a row (talk about an overworked Undine), so that's something to keep in mind. Wall would obviously prevent that, but it screws up your ability to dodge the head-on charge (not the fire swirl).

I took screenshots of all my final stats (not equipment though), so let's take a look at what I ended up with:

Boy (level 43):

Head: Needle Helmet
Body: Vestguard
Arm: Power Wrist

Spike Knuckle: 0:0
Claymore: 3:34
Stout Axe: 3:0
Spear: 0:0
Backhand Whip: 1:66
Chobin's Bow: 0:0
Boomerang: 0:0
Light Trident: 1:8

Girl (level 40):

Head: Needle Helmet
Body: Vestguard
Arm: None

Spike Knuckle: 0:73
Claymore: 1:51
Stout Axe: 2:7
Spear: 0:0
Backhand Whip: 0:0
Chobin's Bow: 0:0
Boomerang: 0:0
Light Trident: 0:0

Undine: 2:84
Gnome: 0:0
Sylphid: 0:36
Salamando: 0:99
Lumina: 0:18
Luna: 0:63
Dryad: 0:62

Sprite (level 41):

Head: Circlet
Body: Spiky Suit
Arm: Lazuri Ring

Spike Knuckle: 1:0
Claymore: 0:41
Stout Axe: 0:46
Spear: 0:0
Backhand Whip: 0:4
Chobin's Bow: 0:0
Boomerang: 0:0
Light Trident: 1:7

Undine: 5:44
Gnome: 7:34
Sylphid: 4:95
Salamando: 3:12
Shade: 1:8
Luna: 2:21
Dryad: 1:0

No idea what my final time was, by the way. I stopped recording the SMV at around Spikey or something. I obviously need to play through again and do a better job of planning out magic/weapon levels. Figuring out the stupid world map can come later... >_<

[Edit]: I started my second practice run tonight (on the Virtual Console this time). Here's an example of the Spikey plan, in case you want to see it. Keep in mind that I was controlling all three characters, so I was pretty slow. I also forgot to equip the spear before the battle, so that was a small mistake too.

By the way, I've been doing quite well on this new practice run so far. I haven't had a huge amount of trouble outside of those two Werewolves and their stupid hit-stun. Hit level 4 without even stopping for serious grinding (I killed a few things along the way instead) and Tropicallo was stupidly easy. Things are looking good! Smiley

I finally completed the first practice run (wow laziness). Notable things from the Snow Dragon on:

1. The Snow Dragon is a complete biotch to kill. Salamando takes ten years to level up and my trusty level 5 Gnome was useless on him. Heck, the only reason I won without further grinding is because the moron glitched himself off the screen. He flew off to the right and never came back, so all I could see was his left wing (maybe tail too) as he moved up and down. Grabbed my trusty Pole Dart and gave him a bunch of standard hits, since the weapon glitch caused my attacks to miss.

After a bunch of 200%+ speed hits, I eventually started missing all the time. I tried moving around and using other weapons, but nothing worked. I figured I was screwed at that point, but then the thing magically exploded as I approached the entrance. O_O

And since haws should be shared, here's a special [url=http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1969629605/hawhaw.smv]SMV[/url] for what I just described.

2. Axe Beak and the Fire Dragon are both complete wimps that even a level 4/5 Undine killed with ease. Didn't even waste my time trying the weapon glitch (this applies to many future bosses as well).

3. The Thunder Gigas and Blue Dragon were easy. Thank you, 5/6 Gnome.

4. The Mana Fortress is a freaking nightmare for just one player to run through. To make things even better, I even had to go ALL the way back and restock my items after Dread Slime. >:|

5. 5/6 Gnome wasn't very useful on Buffy. I was averaging about 150 or so per Gem Missile, so the fight lasted forever. Could've tried the weapon glitch, but I'm too lazy (and that enemy type is hard to hit anyway).

6. Dread Slime is ridiculously easy. Level 0 Wall + weapon glitch = yawn.

7. The Dark Lich is easy too! [b]Whee![/b] I practically just stood on his left side and won by using items at the right time. Used the weapon glitch the entire time too. He has long fade-in/out times though, which can screw up your attack timing a bit.

8. The Mana Beast is also easy. Remedy dodge -> charge 1 -> Remedy dodge (if you had Wall from the fight with the Dark Lich, wait a bit and use Cure Water instead) -> Moon Energy -> switch -> switch -> attack. Use Cure Water whenever you see Lucent Beam and then repeat the attack pattern. Remedy dodge the side attack and use a Faerie Walnut here if necessary.

Now that I've explained something completely obvious, I'd like to note that the Mana Beast randomly decides to become a homicidal maniac. I remember seeing the freak cast Lucent Beam on the boy like 4 times in a row (talk about an overworked Undine), so that's something to keep in mind. Wall would obviously prevent that, but it screws up your ability to dodge the head-on charge (not the fire swirl).

I took screenshots of all my final stats (not equipment though), so let's take a look at what I ended up with:

[spoiler]
Boy (level 43):

Head: Needle Helmet
Body: Vestguard
Arm: Power Wrist

Spike Knuckle: 0:0
Claymore: 3:34
Stout Axe: 3:0
Spear: 0:0
Backhand Whip: 1:66
Chobin's Bow: 0:0
Boomerang: 0:0
Light Trident: 1:8

Girl (level 40):

Head: Needle Helmet
Body: Vestguard
Arm: None

Spike Knuckle: 0:73
Claymore: 1:51
Stout Axe: 2:7
Spear: 0:0
Backhand Whip: 0:0
Chobin's Bow: 0:0
Boomerang: 0:0
Light Trident: 0:0

Undine: 2:84
Gnome: 0:0
Sylphid: 0:36
Salamando: 0:99
Lumina: 0:18
Luna: 0:63
Dryad: 0:62

Sprite (level 41):

Head: Circlet
Body: Spiky Suit
Arm: Lazuri Ring

Spike Knuckle: 1:0
Claymore: 0:41
Stout Axe: 0:46
Spear: 0:0
Backhand Whip: 0:4
Chobin's Bow: 0:0
Boomerang: 0:0
Light Trident: 1:7

Undine: 5:44
Gnome: 7:34
Sylphid: 4:95
Salamando: 3:12
Shade: 1:8
Luna: 2:21
Dryad: 1:0
[/spoiler]

No idea what my final time was, by the way. I stopped recording the SMV at around Spikey or something. I obviously need to play through again and do a better job of planning out magic/weapon levels. Figuring out the stupid world map can come later... >_<

[Edit]: I started my second practice run tonight (on the Virtual Console this time). Here's an example of the [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDjBqDyTyO8]Spikey[/url] plan, in case you want to see it. Keep in mind that I was controlling all three characters, so I was pretty slow. I also forgot to equip the spear before the battle, so that was a small mistake too.

By the way, I've been doing quite well on this new practice run so far. I haven't had a huge amount of trouble outside of those two Werewolves and their stupid hit-stun. Hit level 4 without even stopping for serious grinding (I killed a few things along the way instead) and Tropicallo was stupidly easy. Things are looking good! :)

Molotov

2009-10-15 02:21:33 pm

Since I seem to be killing this topic anyway, I'll just continue to do so. I completed the second practice run last night, and since it was done on the Virtual Console, that's a nice confidence booster for doing the real thing (screw you, savestates). The fact that multiple players will make things so much easier is obviously a bonus as well. Needing to move two characters (or three, in some cases) at the same time is so freaking tedious...

Fun fact: I practically completed that test run in one day. Before Undine -> Northtown in one shot and then Northtown -> completion in the next session. It's like mini-marathon practice! (Not recommended.)

Anyway, I learned the hard way that we will definitely want a level 4+ Undine for Axe Beak. Because I had been focusing my attention on Gnome and/or Salamando/Sylphid, Undine was level 0 by the time I got there. I used Freeze as much as I could (only one Faerie Walnut, I think), but it just wasn't enough to kill it. And since the weapon glitch refused to work, I had to take him down manually with the freaking Pole Dart. The boy was doing something like 17 - 30 damage per uncharged hit, and ended up at 29 HP (no healing left) before Axe Beak finally died. Considering my last save was before entering the Pure Land, one could probably call that battle epic.

Worth noting that I spent some time to use the Wall glitch at Shade's palace. The boy and Sprite ended up in the level 40 range with something like 100,000 GP. Obviously, this made the rest of the game MUCH easier. It takes a bit of time to do, but we should definitely do this in the real run. Except for the girl (the poor victim of the Wall glitch), it should allow us to tank things pretty well.

Also, I didn't do any unnecessary forging this time around. Level 2 Broad Sword, level 1 Spear, and level 1 Pole Dart worked all game long. Rad Hazard's old weapon glitch TAS didn't upgrade weapons either, but it's nice to know it works out just fine in real-time as well. The Pole Dart was only useful against two bosses though: Spring Beak and Metal Mantis. Spring Beak has been mentioned before, but Metal Mantis was unexpected. For some stupid reason, he laughed at my spear attacks. After a lot of frustration and cursing, I tried the Pole Dart...and it worked just fine. -_-

Since I seem to be killing this topic anyway, I'll just continue to do so. I completed the second practice run last night, and since it was done on the Virtual Console, that's a nice confidence booster for doing the real thing (screw you, savestates). The fact that multiple players will make things so much easier is obviously a bonus as well. Needing to move two characters (or three, in some cases) at the same time is so freaking tedious...

Fun fact: I practically completed that test run in one day. Before Undine -> Northtown in one shot and then Northtown -> completion in the next session. It's like mini-marathon practice! (Not recommended.)

Anyway, I learned the hard way that we will definitely want a level 4+ Undine for Axe Beak. Because I had been focusing my attention on Gnome and/or Salamando/Sylphid, Undine was level 0 by the time I got there. I used Freeze as much as I could (only one Faerie Walnut, I think), but it just wasn't enough to kill it. And since the weapon glitch refused to work, I had to take him down manually with the freaking Pole Dart. The boy was doing something like 17 - 30 damage per uncharged hit, and ended up at 29 HP (no healing left) before Axe Beak finally died. Considering my last save was before entering the Pure Land, one could probably call that battle epic.

Worth noting that I spent some time to use the Wall glitch at Shade's palace. The boy and Sprite ended up in the level 40 range with something like 100,000 GP. Obviously, this made the rest of the game MUCH easier. It takes a bit of time to do, but we should definitely do this in the real run. Except for the girl (the poor victim of the Wall glitch), it should allow us to tank things pretty well.

Also, I didn't do any unnecessary forging this time around. Level 2 Broad Sword, level 1 Spear, and level 1 Pole Dart worked all game long. Rad Hazard's old weapon glitch TAS didn't upgrade weapons either, but it's nice to know it works out just fine in real-time as well. The Pole Dart was only useful against two bosses though: Spring Beak and Metal Mantis. Spring Beak has been mentioned before, but Metal Mantis was unexpected. For some stupid reason, he laughed at my spear attacks. After a lot of frustration and cursing, I tried the Pole Dart...and it worked just fine. -_-

RaneofSOTN

2009-10-15 05:14:08 pm

I want off the ride....

As I feared that the weapon selection would be rather reduced.. I think it'd be funny to set up a 2p weapon glitch with the third one casting intermittantly.. I mean it would probably generate some button mashing but think about it... on the later bosses if you can get TWO of the weapons to hit (any 2 really) it would be simple to get one to level 2 (broad sword / spear) then be able to swap to the respective ones you need. Then the third can be used to swap the weapons nearly at the same time then when they recharge, cast spells inbetween..
Would be menu hell but would probably lead to some quick boss ends in the end game (spells would lock them in place for a sec, then timing of hits would lead to quick deaths). I have no grounds on which to do this...

but if anyone of the 3 wants to do some EMULATED online testing.. i'll be down for that sometime soon (i have to write a paper this weekend) so... If you wanted to molotov, if you wanna do some testing, create save states for each boss in whatever emu w/ online you got. Then i'll grab it from you and we'll do some 2p testing see how it works out, maybe 3p if i can get my room mate in on that shit (for testing).

Thats what we really need to see... what can 3p do! not what 1p can do.

As I feared that the weapon selection would be rather reduced.. I think it'd be funny to set up a 2p weapon glitch with the third one casting intermittantly.. I mean it would probably generate some button mashing but think about it... on the later bosses if you can get TWO of the weapons to hit (any 2 really) it would be simple to get one to level 2 (broad sword / spear) then be able to swap to the respective ones you need. Then the third can be used to swap the weapons nearly at the same time then when they recharge, cast spells inbetween..
Would be menu hell but would probably lead to some quick boss ends in the end game (spells would lock them in place for a sec, then timing of hits would lead to quick deaths). I have no grounds on which to do this...

but if anyone of the 3 wants to do some EMULATED online testing.. i'll be down for that sometime soon (i have to write a paper this weekend) so... If you wanted to molotov, if you wanna do some testing, create save states for each boss in whatever emu w/ online you got. Then i'll grab it from you and we'll do some 2p testing see how it works out, maybe 3p if i can get my room mate in on that shit (for testing).

Thats what we really need to see... what can 3p do! not what 1p can do.