Secret of Evermore (SNES)

2014-04-06 07:32:49 am

I play on a SFC with a sd2snes (with the SoE US Rom). I save/load the game like 5 time at magmar and one save at blimp before atlas glitch. In this attemps I try to enter with both character at full energy to avoid a "cling" sound when the energy is refill in the transition (we never know ~~).

I don't think is a sd2snes issue (it just load the rom to the snes), because my previous test for that (see some previous post) have similar behavior from what I see in Darklink tests.

I get the no sound in jail stuff and normal crash in the next run (with an epic 10 min aquagoth because I am stupid)

DLDarklink

2014-04-07 02:06:49 am

...

Yesterday i've dropped the time for the PAL record Tongue

Now it's 1:50:31, but i need to retime it... Timer started at the file select menu (race time)
It could have been sub 1:50, but I forgot the strats for the final battle. Not casting aura costs a lot of time Sad

Vultuz

2014-04-20 03:47:50 am

I was pretty tired of Any% so i just did a "Glitchless" Run
http://www.twitch.tv/vultuz/c/4094727
No (Rock) Skips, No Atlas Glitch, No Multicasting (except call beads, you just can do it from the boy because no casting animation)
Unfortunately i died 2-3 times and softlocked the game twice just by playing it normal...

TheAngryPanda

Edit history:

TheAngryPanda: 2014-04-21 12:57:47 pm

TheAngryPanda: 2014-04-20 05:52:02 pm

2014-04-20 05:51:40 pm

Speed > Safety

Nice. Does anyone actively run this still? For Any% and 100% I mean.

edit: I just wanted to say, in light of recent events elsewhere in games I'm involved with, I cannot thank you guys enough for not being giant bitches about the RNG in this game. It is absolutely awesome that you're not lazy and don't mind the resets too terribly much. Thanks.

DLDarklink

2014-04-21 01:35:05 pm

...

I'm switching back and forth with Terra, right now I'll be putting a bit more time into SoE Wink

I still want to get a sub 1:20 someday Tongue

TheAngryPanda

2014-04-22 07:06:46 pm

Speed > Safety

http://pastebin.com/i88Affqj

I cleaned it up a bit, for anyone that might be thinking about picking up the game. It is NOT a short read, deal with it.

CrAwEk

2014-04-25 04:31:29 am

Secret of Evermore any% TTAS 1:16:14
http://www.twitch.tv/crawek/c/4128522

CrAwEk

2014-04-26 05:13:21 am

New setup for verminator skip.
I use wings when I enter on the prison.
The console no supports agro enemies, which gives a process to manage less
I try this setup 30 times and never crash
Sorry for my english!

CrAwEk

2014-04-26 05:13:31 am

http://www.twitch.tv/crawek/c/4134680

TheAngryPanda

2014-04-26 10:52:08 am

Speed > Safety

Would you mind trying this on Higan? Or Bizhawk.

crawek

2014-04-26 01:13:58 pm

snes9x 1.53
I have not wings on my bsnes save Sad

but when I have time, I try with higan^^

Vultuz

2014-04-27 09:19:36 am

Alrighty, improved my Glitchless stuff Tongue

Time: 3:07:20
http://www.twitch.tv/vultuz/c/4142139

My Question is: There was a kinda big discussion about Multi Casting not be a glitch, how other people see it?

My opinion about is pretty simple, as the boy you can just 2 cast every spell (Except callbeads) So i think its the intentional way how to use Spells and may not switch to the dog for the 8-Cast thing.
Shortversion: Its a "glitch" for me.

TheAngryPanda

2014-04-27 10:55:49 am

Speed > Safety

Multi-Casting is a glitch in my eyes as well. For example, when in the desert, you can at max cast 3 spells, usually only 2. By this logic alone, being able to cast upwards of 8 would be considered an unintentional side effect of a poorly designed menu'ing system that isn't properly checking for things it needs to be when determining what has or has not been casted previously by the boy.

Consider this:

Just when Boy multi-casting (intended mechanics of the game):
- You open menu, you cast spell
- You close menu, an animation is triggered at this point even if you're holding Y to re-open the menu on the first frame possible
- You re-open the menu, you cast spell #2
- You close menu, an animation is being completed now since the previous animation never finished due to opening the menu quickly enough
- Under various circumstances, you can do this once more, but usually it's only 2x. As Vultuz pointed out, Call Beads are an exception for whatever reason (not sure on this one)

When you have the Dog and are Multi-Casting as we do in normal runs:
- You control dog, thus mechanically, this is all the game cares about.
- You open Boy's menu, cast spell from X class
- You close menu, animation begins to play on boy but since you're on dog, you have no animation, thus you can immediately repeat the process (this is the unintended abuse of the system)
- re-open Boy's menu up to however many times you need, usually 7 more, 6 more on certain bosses

This is a glitch, in my opinion. As for whether or not it should be counted in a "glitchless" run, I'd just leave it out purely on speculation that it might be considered one and better safe than sorry.
I don't really follow glitchless or All Bosses as categories since their fairly arbitrary and not really my thing, but I've always considered Multi-Casting to be a glitch, and it's generally always been referenced as such by most runners.

Multi-Casting is a glitch in my eyes as well. For example, when in the desert, you can at max cast 3 spells, usually only 2. By this logic alone, being able to cast upwards of 8 would be considered an unintentional side effect of a poorly designed menu'ing system that isn't properly checking for things it needs to be when determining what has or has not been casted previously by the boy.

Consider this:

Just when Boy multi-casting (intended mechanics of the game):
- You open menu,  you cast spell
- You close menu, an animation is triggered at this point even if you're holding Y to re-open the menu on the first frame possible
- You re-open the menu, you cast spell #2
- You close menu, an animation is being completed now since the previous animation never finished due to opening the menu quickly enough
- Under various circumstances, you can do this once more, but usually it's only 2x. As Vultuz pointed out, Call Beads are an exception for whatever reason (not sure on this one)

When you have the Dog and are Multi-Casting as we do in normal runs:
- You control dog, thus mechanically, this is all the game cares about.
- You open Boy's menu, cast spell from X class
- You close menu, animation begins to play on boy but since you're on dog, you have no animation, thus you can immediately repeat the process (this is the unintended abuse of the system)
- re-open Boy's menu up to however many times you need, usually 7 more, 6 more on certain bosses

This is a glitch, in my opinion. As for whether or not it should be counted in a "glitchless" run, I'd just leave it out purely on speculation that it might be considered one and better safe than sorry.
I don't really follow glitchless or All Bosses as categories since their fairly arbitrary and not really my thing, but I've always considered Multi-Casting to be a glitch, and it's generally always been referenced as such by most runners.

Vultuz

Edit history:

Vultuz: 2014-04-27 03:22:08 pm

2014-04-27 03:19:47 pm

thanks for that Panda, so i think i leave it as a glitch Tongue

I might be done with that already. The run isn't extremly good, but i think its good enough pushing the game to about 3 Hours in "glitchless".
Especially because the WR was about 2:20 about a bit more then a year ago.

assassin17

2014-04-27 10:22:37 pm

I love YaBB 1G - SP1!

i just watched some of the final battles. nice; the enemies could barely move. but is there any reason you didn't have the Dog's gauge charging past 100%? Toaster Dog can do mondo damage with level 2 or level 3. you were casting Energize on both characters, so the wait would be short, and i'm assuming his attack levelled up at least once during the course of the game.

----------

in other news, i finally updated my "Prizes by Location List" to include AsFarAsIGet's findings:

http://www14.brinkster.com/assassin17/

CrAwEk

2014-04-28 03:26:36 am

I think Secret of Evermore without atlas glitch and all skip it's a really good idea vultuz.
But remove 8 cast it's bad idea because the speedrun become very slow and a little boring in my opinion.
The strong point of the game is the use of spells and not the use of weapons.

TheAngryPanda

2014-04-28 03:12:59 pm

Speed > Safety

Well it wouldn't be glitchless if it included a glitch.

That being said, I find it about as entertaining as All Bosses personally, but arbitrary categories have never really been something I find interest in.

Skarsnik

Edit history:

Skarsnik: 2014-05-04 07:12:12 pm

2014-05-04 07:04:01 pm

Ok I test the wing thing for verminator skip from a saved file at tinker (still on my SFC)

10 try with doing nothing : 8 crash, 2 no crash
10 try with wings entering the jail : 0 crash

( I suck at multi casting, but I am tired x))

start around 7 min
http://www.twitch.tv/skarsnikus/b/525944401

the first 40 min doesn't look good probably, forget to cut the torrent client

CrAwEk

2014-05-05 12:44:22 am

thx skarsnikus for try that
lovablelambchop made a run on console with verminator skip. He use wings and no crash.
I'm glad to have found this setup.
Now we can get sub 1:17 Smiley

DLDarklink

2014-05-05 01:45:27 am

...

There still is one thing we need to rule out, Meta's sound dropped as soon as he entered the room. Using Wings would be useless in that case since you're already screwed at that point.

If someone can reproduce that issue and find a 100% workaround, I'm fine with the Verm skip

CrAwEk

2014-05-05 02:02:52 am

if you open menu when you enter on the prison, the sound dont drop

CrAwEk

2014-05-05 02:09:56 am

I think menu sound prevents sound crash

GreenAmbler

2014-05-05 05:43:47 am

The only explanation I can think of for Meta's insta sound drop would still be because he used a petal before entering, perhaps in addition to having the action bar filled to 100% sound effect which may or may not be a factor. As far as I know, that's the only time the sound has instantly dropped, and the petal strat was not tested very thoroughly, or at least not on console.

Opening the menu might also help prevent the immediate sound glitch, I know if you get the really glitchy raptor sound going you can bring up the menu and wait 5-10 seconds for it to stop to avoid softlocking (but if audio is already silent it's too late).

Skarsnik

2014-05-05 05:48:22 am

I never see the sound drop immedialty, generaly the game play a bit of the castle music (to have a sweet music transition probably), then he drop or became all weird

MetaSigma

2014-05-05 09:59:34 pm

Evermore Extrodinare ᕦ(° Д°)ᕤ

So in other words I need to do a full any% run on console and use wings ASAP in the dungeon as well as DO NOT walk in until the action bar is already at 100% and WALK in not run? Is that what I'm hearing? Also yeah I'm in the same boat with Darklink on this if that fixes the issue then by all means we're throwing this glitch in. The great thing is there is a set of wings in the pyramids we can pick up that costs maybe a second or two and would work (Unless you guys planned on just buying them that works too :P)

All in all nice find guys while I was away Smiley