Secret of Evermore (SNES)

Edit history:

Foetzli: 2008-01-08 11:57:33 pm

2008-01-08 11:28:51 pm

This is my favourite game for the snes but there's no run up on SDA. It seems to be that I can't run it within the next few months but I'm working on a route and wanted to know if anybody is interested in it. Category would be any% segmented.

Glitches I want to include:

- Spell glitch: Casting up to 9 or 10 spells at the same time by switching to the dog and controlling the boy's spells with the X-button

- Atlas glitch (credit to Saturn who used it in his 100% TAS: http://tasvideos.org/396M.html) : Cast atlas several times (depends on character level) and save. When it runs out after loading the damage goes down to negative numbers which results in 65000+ damage. Stable until you reach a level that increases your damage to a positive number.

- Infinite pepper glitch: In the volcano switch to the dog and leave the screen just when receiving pepper. Re-enter and repeat.

- ~~Infinite~~ 99 call beads glitch

So what do you think?

Thread title:

iamfanboy

2008-01-08 11:53:50 pm

I'm in your FF save, spanking Yuffie.

Ah, Secret of Glitchermore; I remember that game well. Tongue

Considering the glitches they allow in the Final Glitchasy 6 run, I don't think they'd have much to complain about.

sshplur

2008-01-09 03:36:21 am

I'm definitely interested and I think those glitches are fine. This is one of my favourite SNES games.

sunburstbasser

2008-01-09 05:01:16 am

Silver Hawk!

This could be an excellent run.

In the beginning-its faster to let the raptors kill you. And when running, its possible to run forever if you hold the button down at the right time. I think you need a level 2 weapon, then run until you hit 0%, then hold the button again and your power will charge up while running and even when you max out, it won't go back down. Play with that a bit; it'll be very handy. Sorry I can't be more precise on how, its been a while.

Good luck getting the planning!

getter77

2008-01-09 02:47:46 pm

100% runs=great to watch

I'd also like seeing this...go for it and good luck! 8)

Foetzli

Edit history:

Foetzli: 2008-01-09 10:40:54 pm

2008-01-09 10:32:43 pm

Quote:

This could be an excellent run.

I think you need a level 2 weapon, then run until you hit 0%, then hold the button again and your power will charge up while running and even when you max out, it won't go back down.

Yes I know that glitch, too but I think it takes more time to power up a weapon to lvl2 than running through the desert while repeatedly pressing A. The desert has to be crossed only once without the skeleton's help. I'm planning on not powering up any weapons at all. But thanks anyway :-)

Thanks a lot also for showing interest in that project. I'm trying to finish the route until tomorrow and then let's see what you think. The most annoying thing is to translate the German names into English ;-)

Please post all glitches you know that might help to save time. I've played that game a lot but I never used any glitches except for those already mentioned.

sunburstbasser

2008-01-10 02:09:03 am

Silver Hawk!

Awesome, didn't know if you knew of that one or not. I seem to remember that my Bone Crusher would get close to Level 2 on a normal play. Maybe using it even after you get the first axe you could level it up without going out of your way? I guess that'll be something to test with your planning runs.

Along with running a lot, route will probably be one of the biggest factors in speed. I remember not knowing where to go in some of the more maze-like areas and taking forever to get certain places. If you don't need to go out of your way for ingredients much you could be able to zip through several areas.

Lokarin

2008-01-10 11:49:58 am

Killer Chobocos don't get any chocolate.

The large insect boss near the beginning of the game...

You don't need to charge up at all when attacking the rib-cage. 3 whacks of any strength will open it up.

nrich

Edit history:

nrich: 2008-01-10 12:40:20 pm

2008-01-10 12:40:04 pm

Personally, I'd much rather see a clean speed run over one that abuses the glitches. A challenging playthrough ends up being the most entertaining, unlike seeing everything die within a few seconds, especially for a game like Secret of Evermore.

Foetzli

Edit history:

Foetzli: 2008-01-10 05:21:11 pm

2008-01-10 05:15:46 pm

[tt]I'm sorry I didn't add your names when quoting. Is there a fast way to automatically insert names, date and time if you want to quote multiple users? [/tt]

Quote:

You don't need to charge up at all when attacking the rib-cage. 3 whacks of any strength will open it up.

You don't even have to use a weapon on that boss :-) . Just hard ball combined with the spells glitch. Should take about 20-30 seconds.

I have also read something about to skip talking to Fireeyes for the first time but I have to try this out. Would be useful since I you don't need any call beads on the first boss and the first dialogue with Fireeyes is really long.

Quote:

Maybe using it even after you get the first axe you could level it up without going out of your way? I guess that'll be something to test with your planning runs.

The only weapon I'm going to power up will be the first spear since it is useful for the later Verminator fight. I only have to level it up to lvl1(throwing) which means killing 50-60 enemies. This isn't much and can be achieved without going out of my way (I have to kill some enemies in the pyramid because of those tight corridors).
The problem with leveling up weapons is leveling up the character, too which influences the atlas-glitch (see 1st post).

Quote:

Personally, I'd much rather see a clean speed run over one that abuses the glitches. A challenging playthrough ends up being the most entertaining, unlike seeing everything die within a few seconds, especially for a game like Secret of Evermore.

In that case you shouldn't view the OoT runs and especially don't watch "half-hour half-life" by SpiderWaffle ;-)
Seriously:
I really know what you mean and I agree with you in the point that rushing through games as fast as possible destroys the atmosphere. But this is Speed Demos Archive and not Playthrough Demos Archive. And because using glitches is faster I think they should be used. Feel free to do a non-glitched run... maybe there will be a separate category.

As for the route planning: I need another day or two. sunburstbasser is right... there are some things I have to try out first.

[tt]I'm sorry I didn't add your names when quoting. Is there a fast way to automatically insert names, date and time if you want to quote multiple users? [/tt]

[quote]
You don't need to charge up at all when attacking the rib-cage.  3 whacks of any strength will open it up.
[/quote]

You don't even have to use a weapon on that boss :-) . Just hard ball combined with the spells glitch. Should take about 20-30 seconds.

I have also read something about to skip talking to Fireeyes for the first time but I have to try this out. Would be useful since I you don't need any call beads on the first boss and the first dialogue with Fireeyes is really long.

[quote]Maybe using it even after you get the first axe you could level it up without going out of your way?  I guess that'll be something to test with your planning runs.[/quote]

The only weapon I'm going to power up will be the first spear since it is useful for the later Verminator fight. I only have to level it up to lvl1(throwing) which means killing 50-60 enemies. This isn't much and can be achieved without going out of my way (I have to kill some enemies in the pyramid because of those tight corridors). 
The problem with leveling up weapons is leveling up the character, too which influences the atlas-glitch (see 1st post).

[quote]Personally, I'd much rather see a clean speed run over one that abuses the glitches. A challenging playthrough ends up being the most entertaining, unlike seeing everything die within a few seconds, especially for a game like Secret of Evermore.[/quote]

In that case you shouldn't view the OoT runs and especially don't watch "half-hour half-life" by SpiderWaffle ;-)
Seriously:
I really know what you mean and I agree with you in the point that rushing through games as fast as possible destroys the atmosphere. But this is  [b]Speed[/b] Demos Archive and not [b]Playthrough[/b] Demos Archive. And because using glitches is faster I think they should be used. Feel free to do a non-glitched run... maybe there will be a separate category.

As for the route planning: I need another day or two. sunburstbasser is right... there are some things I have to try out first.

sunburstbasser

2008-01-10 08:44:21 pm

Silver Hawk!

I like the spear idea. Good luck with the run!

sshplur

Edit history:

sshplur: 2008-01-11 03:51:49 am

2008-01-11 03:50:50 am

Quote:

I have also read something about to skip talking to Fireeyes for the first time but I have to try this out.

Controlling the boy, stand by the guy blocking your way to Bug Muck. When the dog walks past him, change characters.

DoubleThink

2008-01-11 11:46:53 am

There's a word for that

Quote:

The only weapon I'm going to power up will be the first spear since it is useful for the later Verminator fight. I only have to level it up to lvl1(throwing) which means killing 50-60 enemies. This isn't much and can be achieved without going out of my way (I have to kill some enemies in the pyramid because of those tight corridors).

Um Verminator is actually skippable...

From Iron Knuckles' FAQ/Walkthrough:
Bypass Verminator
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you go all the way through the forest and to Ebon Keep, don't fight
Verminator. Head back to the chess board and the bridge to Ivor Tower will be
gone, but the one to Ebon Keep will be there instead. Continue on through and
you can talk to Tinker and Queen Camellia. This means that you can totally
cut out the fight with that rat king. The problem is you can't go through the
door where Verminator is/was because the boxes still block it. Also the game
might freeze if you try to enter his room.

I'm not sure since I've only played the game once, but this seems much faster... and I do remember what a pain Verminator was Sad

[quote]The only weapon I'm going to power up will be the first spear since it is useful for the later Verminator fight. I only have to level it up to lvl1(throwing) which means killing 50-60 enemies. This isn't much and can be achieved without going out of my way (I have to kill some enemies in the pyramid because of those tight corridors).[/quote]
Um Verminator is actually skippable...

From Iron Knuckles' FAQ/Walkthrough:
[i]Bypass Verminator
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
 If you go all the way through the forest and to Ebon Keep, don't fight 
Verminator. Head back to the chess board and the bridge to Ivor Tower will be 
gone, but the one to Ebon Keep will be there instead. Continue on through and 
you can talk to Tinker and Queen Camellia. This means that you can totally 
cut out the fight with that rat king. The problem is you can't go through the 
door where Verminator is/was because the boxes still block it. Also the game 
might freeze if you try to enter his room.
[/i]

I'm not sure since I've only played the game once, but this seems much faster... and I do remember what a pain Verminator was :(

Veritate

2008-01-11 01:22:19 pm

No. You're forced to go back thorugh the whole frikkin' forest then, which costs far more time than fighting Verminator.

Foetzli

2008-01-11 02:42:06 pm

Quote:

Um Verminator is actually skippable...

I do remember what a pain Verminator was Sad

When I played the game for the first time I actually got stuck there for almost a month.

But you have to consider that I can either throw my spear which does 65000+ damage or I can use the spells glitch. Depends on what is faster. Charging up the spear takes about as long as casting the spells but I'm vulnerable during charging up and due to my low character level the spells glitch might be the better choice.

sunburstbasser

2008-01-12 12:26:41 am

Silver Hawk!

Whats the plan for spell ingredients? Do you know all the spots where you can find ingredients so that you don't have to buy any?

Saturn

Edit history:

Saturn: 2008-01-12 12:53:49 pm

2008-01-12 12:46:56 pm

Foetzli, if you ever plan to speedrun this game, I strongly recommend to check my 100% TAS thoroughly to learn the best and fastest strategies for every situation. Judged by your previous posts in this thread you seem to not have done that yet.

So here are some reminders:

You don't have to run across the dessert even once, since you can simply use the dessert warp glitch to pass it in 10 sec. See my TAS on how it's done.

In order to use the unlimited run trick, you have to level up a weapon to the max level (3rd one), 2nd level won't be enough to make it work. Also keep in mind that after using the Atlas glitch for 65000+ attack power, it will only work when you hit the enemy with the weakest form of your attack (below 100% charge bar). Everything above will result in a positive number again and that way even a level 3 spear throw would only do 1 HP damage at most. Smiley

Because of this 2 reasons, leveling up any weapon would be a pure waste of time. Use the spell glitch to make 8x Hard Ball combos on early bosses instead, until you get the Atlas formula. Once again, see my 100% TAS for the optimal way to handle this early situation as fast as possible.

Regarding the Verminator, it's definitely faster to just fight him instead of skipping. He is the only boss aside Aquagoth that is not reachable with weapons, so have enough Hard Balls and Call Beads for this 2 bosses to quickly kill them with the spell glitch.

The 99 Call Bead glitch isn't worth to perform at all, since all bosses from that point can be killed much faster with the weapons alone. Also in order to make this glitch work, you have to get the Magic Gourd before going to Gothica the first time, and this will require you 10000 Jewels to buy, a amount that you simply won't have at this part of the game without slowing down alot to kill many enemies.

In any case, despite there are ~4 failed speedrun attempts for this game already, I would be interested to see one done someday, and of course would be willing to support the player if there are questions.

Foetzli, if you ever plan to speedrun this game, I strongly recommend to check my 100% TAS thoroughly to learn the best and fastest strategies for every situation. Judged by your previous posts in this thread you seem to not have done that yet.

So here are some reminders:

You don't have to run across the dessert even once, since you can simply use the dessert warp glitch to pass it in 10 sec. See my TAS on how it's done.

In order to use the unlimited run trick, you have to level up a weapon to the max level (3rd one), 2nd level won't be enough to make it work. Also keep in mind that after using the Atlas glitch for 65000+ attack power, it will only work when you hit the enemy with the weakest form of your attack (below 100% charge bar). Everything above will result in a positive number again and that way even a level 3 spear throw would only do 1 HP damage at most. :)

Because of this 2 reasons, leveling up any weapon would be a pure waste of time. Use the spell glitch to make 8x Hard Ball combos on early bosses instead, until you get the Atlas formula. Once again, see my 100% TAS for the optimal way to handle this early situation as fast as possible.

Regarding the Verminator, it's definitely faster to just fight him instead of skipping. He is the only boss aside Aquagoth that is not reachable with weapons, so have enough Hard Balls and Call Beads for this 2 bosses to quickly kill them with the spell glitch.

The 99 Call Bead glitch isn't worth to perform at all, since all bosses from that point can be killed much faster with the weapons alone. Also in order to make this glitch work, you have to get the Magic Gourd before going to Gothica the first time, and this will require you 10000 Jewels to buy, a amount that you simply won't have at this part of the game without slowing down alot to kill many enemies.

In any case, despite there are ~4 failed speedrun attempts for this game already, I would be interested to see one done someday, and of course would be willing to support the player if there are questions.

Foetzli

2008-01-13 03:46:32 am

Quote:

Foetzli, if you ever plan to speedrun this game, I strongly recommend to check my 100% TAS thoroughly to learn the best and fastest strategies for every situation. Judged by your previous posts in this thread you seem to not have done that yet.

So here are some reminders:

You don't have to run across the dessert even once, since you can simply use the dessert warp glitch to pass it in 10 sec. See my TAS on how it's done.

In order to use the unlimited run trick, you have to level up a weapon to the max level (3rd one), 2nd level won't be enough to make it work. Also keep in mind that after using the Atlas glitch for 65000+ attack power, it will only work when you hit the enemy with the weakest form of your attack (below 100% charge bar). Everything above will result in a positive number again and that way even a level 3 spear throw would only do 1 HP damage at most. Smiley

Because of this 2 reasons, leveling up any weapon would be a pure waste of time. Use the spell glitch to make 8x Hard Ball combos on early bosses instead, until you get the Atlas formula. Once again, see my 100% TAS for the optimal way to handle this early situation as fast as possible.

Regarding the Verminator, it's definitely faster to just fight him instead of skipping. He is the only boss aside Aquagoth that is not reachable with weapons, so have enough Hard Balls and Call Beads for this 2 bosses to quickly kill them with the spell glitch.

The 99 Call Bead glitch isn't worth to perform at all, since all bosses from that point can be killed much faster with the weapons alone. Also in order to make this glitch work, you have to get the Magic Gourd before going to Gothica the first time, and this will require you 10000 Jewels to buy, a amount that you simply won't have at this part of the game without slowing down alot to kill many enemies.

In any case, despite there are ~4 failed speedrun attempts for this game already, I would be interested to see one done someday, and of course would be willing to support the player if there are questions.

all of that really makes sense. thank you so much for pointing these things out, especially the verminator thing and the one with powering up. Infinite call beads are not necessary as i found out today... i just neet 3 to 4 call beads in the last fight for being invincible (no frame advance to dodge attacks ;-) )

I thought about the desert warp glitch and I think SDA won't accept it because "mysterious warping" is not allowed here.

Well Saturn. It's an honour to have you here in this thread. I've seen your TAS but that was about 3 months ago. It seems to be that there is hardly any person who knows as much about this game as you do. Because of your advices I have to do a bit more planning and route changing. Thank you so much once again!

I have one question: How does the "don't give away the diamond eyes after pyramid"-glitch work? Just selecting the dog and "sniff" over the trigger? Am I completely wrong?

[quote]Foetzli, if you ever plan to speedrun this game, I strongly recommend to check my 100% TAS thoroughly to learn the best and fastest strategies for every situation. Judged by your previous posts in this thread you seem to not have done that yet.

So here are some reminders:

You don't have to run across the dessert even once, since you can simply use the dessert warp glitch to pass it in 10 sec. See my TAS on how it's done.

In order to use the unlimited run trick, you have to level up a weapon to the max level (3rd one), 2nd level won't be enough to make it work. Also keep in mind that after using the Atlas glitch for 65000+ attack power, it will only work when you hit the enemy with the weakest form of your attack (below 100% charge bar). Everything above will result in a positive number again and that way even a level 3 spear throw would only do 1 HP damage at most. :)

Because of this 2 reasons, leveling up any weapon would be a pure waste of time. Use the spell glitch to make 8x Hard Ball combos on early bosses instead, until you get the Atlas formula. Once again, see my 100% TAS for the optimal way to handle this early situation as fast as possible.

Regarding the Verminator, it's definitely faster to just fight him instead of skipping. He is the only boss aside Aquagoth that is not reachable with weapons, so have enough Hard Balls and Call Beads for this 2 bosses to quickly kill them with the spell glitch.

The 99 Call Bead glitch isn't worth to perform at all, since all bosses from that point can be killed much faster with the weapons alone. Also in order to make this glitch work, you have to get the Magic Gourd before going to Gothica the first time, and this will require you 10000 Jewels to buy, a amount that you simply won't have at this part of the game without slowing down alot to kill many enemies.

In any case, despite there are ~4 failed speedrun attempts for this game already, I would be interested to see one done someday, and of course would be willing to support the player if there are questions.[/quote]

all of that really makes sense. thank you so much for pointing these things out, especially the verminator thing and the one with powering up. Infinite call beads are not necessary as i found out today... i just neet 3 to 4 call beads in the last fight for being invincible (no frame advance to dodge attacks ;-) )

I thought about the  desert warp glitch and I think SDA won't accept it because "mysterious warping" is not allowed here.

Well Saturn. It's an honour to have you here in this thread. I've seen your TAS but that was about 3 months ago. It seems to be that there is hardly any person who knows as much about this game as you do. Because of your advices I have to do a bit more planning and route changing. Thank you so much once again!

I have one question: How does the "don't give away the diamond eyes after pyramid"-glitch work? Just selecting the dog and "sniff" over the trigger? Am I completely wrong?

Saturn

Edit history:

Saturn: 2008-01-13 11:41:48 pm

2008-01-13 11:38:39 pm

Quote:

I thought about the desert warp glitch and I think SDA won't accept it because "mysterious warping" is not allowed here.

Hmmm, thats strange. If stuff like the Atlas glitch is allowed here, then I don't see why this warp glitch isn't. But anyway, even if you have to pass this dessert the usual way, it's not worth to level up any weapons for the unlimited run trick. Tapping the run button optimally won't be much of a slowdown here anyway.

Quote:

How does the "don't give away the diamond eyes after pyramid"-glitch work? Just selecting the dog and "sniff" over the trigger?

Nope. As long as you have control over the dog, you can't pass the trigger. You have to move him as close to it as possible, then switch to the boy and wait until the CPU controlled dog starts to sniff into the right direction. It's pretty random and can take a while until it works. Be sure to keep the boy near the dog all the time so that he won't move back before passing the trigger. After he passed it, switch back to the dog in time, and enter the next room with him. Then switch to the boy again to continue. And very important, don't forget to pick up the roots from the little bush at the top of that corridor before having both Diamond Eyes. It's right in the area where the trigger line is, so if you miss them in the beginning, you won't be able to pick them up again without runing into the trigger. And as long as the roots are there, you won't be able to use the sniff trick to pass the trigger with the dog.

[quote]I thought about the  desert warp glitch and I think SDA won't accept it because "mysterious warping" is not allowed here.[/quote]
Hmmm, thats strange. If stuff like the Atlas glitch is allowed here, then I don't see why this warp glitch isn't. But anyway, even if you have to pass this dessert the usual way, it's not worth to level up any weapons for the unlimited run trick. Tapping the run button optimally won't be much of a slowdown here anyway.

[quote]How does the "don't give away the diamond eyes after pyramid"-glitch work? Just selecting the dog and "sniff" over the trigger?[/quote]
Nope. As long as you have control over the dog, you can't pass the trigger. You have to move him as close to it as possible, then switch to the boy and wait until the CPU controlled dog starts to sniff into the right direction. It's pretty random and can take a while until it works. Be sure to keep the boy near the dog all the time so that he won't move back before passing the trigger. After he passed it, switch back to the dog in time, and enter the next room with him. Then switch to the boy again to continue. And very important, don't forget to pick up the roots from the little bush at the top of that corridor before having both Diamond Eyes. It's right in the area where the trigger line is, so if you miss them in the beginning, you won't be able to pick them up again without runing into the trigger. And as long as the roots are there, you won't be able to use the sniff trick to pass the trigger with the dog.

nokia3311

2010-04-10 01:24:04 pm

Imagine I want to do a speedrun of the game. I don't want to use any of the glitches. What do you think: Can I use the multiple spell casting or is this already categorized as a glitch?

mocliamtoh

2010-04-10 11:42:00 pm

My name is unpronounceable

I don't remember how hard it is to find the spell for defence, but you can perform a glitch that effectively works the same way as the Atlas glitch, but for defence. If you're going to perform the Atlas glitch, that might be the best opportunity to do this, but I don't remember how long it takes. Also worth noting is that there are some attacks that do "plot damage". I'm not sure if there is any commonly accepted term for it, but essentially the attacks bypass your defence.

MetaSigma

2012-12-26 10:46:02 pm

Evermore Extrodinare ᕦ(° Д°)ᕤ

Just completed a run on console with about 2 and a half minutes of possible time to save due to bad execution/planning

Final time was 2:40:35 Single Segment =)

Rakuen

2012-12-27 08:54:52 am

Weegee Time

Well hell, that came out of nowhere. Nice job, MetaSigma!

PJ

2012-12-27 09:07:35 am

Is PJ

Wow yea, crazy time! I'm interested to see how you saved so much time over the segmented run.

Atlas run after this?

Omnigamer

2012-12-27 09:14:21 am

All the things

Well the segmented run on-site is PAL. I'm not sure how they handled the conversion, but just a pure slowdown to 50 Hz can account for a lot of that time difference.