Rise of the Tomb Raider

2016-02-22 08:44:04 am

Also know as L0rdy

Well, thats why we post all the random things we find here, right?
At some point just randomly it will become useful ^^. I am glad this actually had a use... wish I could test around more, but too little time BibleThump.

CptKiwi

2016-02-22 09:16:59 am

Ok got it
This is the point/cutscene where you get it

Leemyy

Edit history:

Leemyy: 2016-02-22 09:28:56 am

2016-02-22 09:19:22 am

You should propably make the video unlised instead of private, so we can actually see it Tongue

EDIT: Nice. sub 1:20 we're coming.
Also, rip Ice Age skip.

CptKiwi

2016-02-22 09:21:55 am

TheArtisticBallistic

2016-02-22 09:33:20 am

Welp I consider quitting this game. Only rng and backscramble left it seems. (It is still a very nice find of course from a skiphunter point of view).

troblana

2016-02-22 03:42:42 pm

Question: Will runs now be done with the auto splitter?

Konjux

2016-02-23 02:16:19 am

Newbie Speedrunner - hitbox streamer

Seeing how much time that acropolis skip saves, I think we can muster doing first part of Path of the Deathless, seems like the 2nd part is where the most time is saved anyways (I might be wrong) seeing as it skips fighting the Deathless

SamuraiBlue

2016-02-23 07:48:29 am

I really feel the same as Artistic. My last 3 runs died just because of RNG, I was several mins ahead my pb each time... It kind of disgusts me of running the game :/

@Brassmaster Congratulations with that 1st sub 2h on console ! Smiley

Don't know if I'll find motivation to chase your time...

TheArtisticBallistic

2016-02-23 09:39:44 am

(This post is very subjective but I hope you can understand what I mean)

I'm so sad right now Sad

I had big hopes for this game and the first 2 weeks after the pc release looked promising and were quite exciting.

A speedrun that lacks variety won't have a bright future. I don't believe rottr any% will attract new runners because of that and the ones that have been running the game so far probably won't do so for a long time. What I particularly mean is that being able to hold 3-4 buttons at a time while memorizing a spot to stand in and a spot to aim at loses it's attraction quite quickly and doesn't provide any gameplay value. That being said I think the only way to make this game fun for a bigger crowd is if we manage to create a new route that has variety and a reasonably high skill cap (aka you actually need skill in order to be fast and not just luck and memory). However the 2 big problems with this are: There aren't really lots of variety options in the first place and creating a route with a method where Skip A is in the run "because I like it" and Skip B isn't in the run "because I don't like it" doesn't work out.

So if you have any suggestions for a different route I'm happy to hear your ideas Smiley

(This post is very subjective but I hope you can understand what I mean)

I'm so sad right now :( I had big hopes for this game and the first 2 weeks after the pc release looked promising and were quite exciting.

A speedrun that lacks variety won't have a bright future. I don't believe rottr any% will attract new runners because of that and the ones that have been running the game so far probably won't do so for a long time. What I particularly mean is that being able to hold 3-4 buttons at a time while memorizing a spot to stand in and a spot to aim at loses it's attraction quite quickly and doesn't provide any gameplay value. That being said I think the only way to make this game fun for a bigger crowd is if we manage to create a new route that has variety and a reasonably high skill cap (aka you actually need skill in order to be fast and not just luck and memory). However the 2 big problems with this are: There aren't really lots of variety options in the first place and creating a route with a method where Skip A is in the run "because I like it" and Skip B isn't in the run "because I don't like it" doesn't work out.

So if you have any suggestions for a different route I'm happy to hear your ideas :)

Leemyy

2016-02-23 01:43:03 pm

I just made a list of all the skips, that are currently part of Any%. If I missed some, please point them out.
Skips used in current Any% (Form: Skip name - Stats/Glitches used)

Legend:
Name in red - RNG is involved in this skip.
Name in bold italics - The skip requires - as Artistic so eloquently put it:

Quote from TheArtisticBallistic:

[...] being able to hold 3-4 buttons at a time while memorizing a spot to stand in and a spot to aim at [...]

Intro OoB - Skywalk or Jump, AX-Climb
Syria Trap OoB - RNG, Aim&Scramble
Syria Water Skip I - Aim&Scramble
Syria Water Skip II - AX-Climb
Bear Skip - Aim&Scramble
Pistol OoB - Aim&Scramble or AX-Climb
Prison Break-in - Jump, Aim&Scramble, AX-Climb
Prison Break-out - RNG, Aim&reAim
Prison Gate Skip - Aim&Scramble
Prison Fight Skip - Aim&Scramble
Tree Climb - AX-Climb, Skywalk, Melee Walk
Prophets Tomb Skip - RNG, Aim&Scramble
Mines to Waterfall - RNG, Aim&Scramble, AX-Climb
^^or Valley to Archives - Melee Walk, Aim&Walk
Reverse Archives - Aim&Scramble
Early Archives - Campfire Glitch, Aim&Scramble, Jump
Research Base Hike - Aim&Scramble, Ghostwalk, AX-Climb
^^or Rersearch Base OoBs - RNG, Aim&Scramble, AX-Climb
Early Terrible Fight - Aim&Scramble, Jump
Orrereray Skip - Aim&Scramble
Ice Age ^pt2 - Jump, Aim&Scramble, AX-Climb
Corela Skip - Aim&Scramble, AX-Climb
Swagstrat - Jump, Scramble&Jump

In case it's unclear, what I mean by some of those Strat names:

Skywalk: "Walking" on a slope, that Lara would normally slip off of.
AX-Climb: Pressing [Jump] and [Interact] at the same time, in order to climb certain slopes.
Aim&xyz: Aiming and some other action (xyz). Often accompanied by looking a specific direction and hlding specific directions.
Melee Walk: Using the axe swing attack to walk up slippery slopes.
Campfire Glitch: Using a campfire at the same time you trigger another action. Glitches the game state.
Jump: Making a precise landing or jumping in a specific location.
Scramble&Jump: Scramble off an edge and then jump, in order to increase the distance reached.
RNG: Either only works at random intervalls or refuses to work occasionally.

What I want to show with this list is that Artistic has a point. There is a lot of skips, that require Aiming in some way. Which is usually neither interesting nor hard. Most instances where it is not easy are usually ones involving RNG.
However, I don't think, that we should redefine Any% because of that. The way I see it, Any% is whichever is the fastest way of completing the game. Even if that route is not paticularly interesting.
Instead, I propose we create a new category, which forbids certain skips in order to be more interesting and challenging. I have no concrete ideas what that category should and should not include/allow. I have the suspicion that completely banning Aiming as a means of clipping might be a bit extreme. But maybe that will lead to more new Glitches being found. In case we do end up banning Aim-Clipping, I propose the category name "NoScope%" Tongue

Regarding Artistics second point; I, too, think that skips should not be in-/excluded depending on how much we like them. If they seem to be completely or even occasionally random though, we should think about banning them.

I just made a list of all the skips, that are currently part of Any%. If I missed some, please point them out.
[b]Skips used in current Any%[/b] (Form: Skip name - Stats/Glitches used)
[hidden][b]Legend:[/b]
[color="red"]Name in red[/color] - RNG is involved in this skip.
[b][i]Name in bold italics[/i][/b] - The skip requires - as Artistic so eloquently put it:
[quote="TheArtisticBallistic"][...] being able to hold 3-4 buttons at a time while memorizing a spot to stand in and a spot to aim at [...][/quote]
Intro OoB - Skywalk or Jump, AX-Climb
[color="red"][b][i]Syria Trap OoB[/i][/b][/color] - RNG, Aim&Scramble
[b][i]Syria Water Skip I[/i][/b] - Aim&Scramble
Syria Water Skip II - AX-Climb
[b][i]Bear Skip[/i][/b] - Aim&Scramble
[b][i]Pistol OoB[/i][/b] - Aim&Scramble or AX-Climb
[b][i]Prison Break-in[/i][/b] - Jump, Aim&Scramble, AX-Climb
[color="red"][b][i]Prison Break-out[/i][/b][/color] - RNG, Aim&reAim
[b][i]Prison Gate Skip[/i][/b] - Aim&Scramble
[b][i]Prison Fight Skip[/i][/b] - Aim&Scramble
Tree Climb - AX-Climb, Skywalk, Melee Walk
[color="red"][b][i]Prophets Tomb Skip[/i][/b][/color] - RNG, Aim&Scramble
[color="red"][b][i]Mines to Waterfall[/i][/b][/color] - RNG, Aim&Scramble, AX-Climb
^[sup]or[/sup] [b][i]Valley to Archives[/i][/b] - Melee Walk, Aim&Walk
[b][i]Reverse Archives[/i][/b] - Aim&Scramble
[b][i]Early Archives[/i][/b] - Campfire Glitch, Aim&Scramble, Jump
[b][i]Research Base Hike[/i][/b] - Aim&Scramble, Ghostwalk, AX-Climb
^[sup]or[/sup] [color="red"][b][i]Rersearch Base OoBs[/i][/b][/color] - RNG, Aim&Scramble, AX-Climb
[b][i]Early Terrible Fight[/i][/b] - Aim&Scramble, Jump
[b][i]Orrereray Skip[/i][/b] - Aim&Scramble
[b][i]Ice Age [sup]pt[/sup]2[/i][/b] - Jump, Aim&Scramble, AX-Climb
[b][i]Corela Skip[/i][/b] - Aim&Scramble, AX-Climb
Swagstrat - Jump, Scramble&Jump[/hidden]

In case it's unclear, what I mean by some of those Strat names:
[hidden]Skywalk: "Walking" on a slope, that Lara would normally slip off of.
AX-Climb: Pressing [Jump] and [Interact] at the same time, in order to climb certain slopes.
Aim&xyz: Aiming and some other action (xyz). Often accompanied by looking a specific direction and hlding specific directions.
Melee Walk: Using the axe swing attack to walk up slippery slopes.
Campfire Glitch: Using a campfire at the same time you trigger another action. Glitches the game state.
Jump: Making a precise landing or jumping in a specific location.
Scramble&Jump: Scramble off an edge and then jump, in order to increase the distance reached.
RNG: Either only works at random intervalls or refuses to work occasionally.[/hidden]

What I want to show with this list is that Artistic has a point. There is a lot of skips, that require Aiming in some way. Which is usually neither interesting nor hard. Most instances where it is not easy are usually ones involving RNG.
However, I don't think, that we should redefine Any% because of that. The way I see it, Any% is whichever is the fastest way of completing the game. Even if that route is not paticularly interesting. 
Instead, I propose we create a new category, which forbids certain skips in order to be more interesting and challenging. I have no concrete ideas what that category should and should not include/allow. I have the suspicion that completely banning Aiming as a means of clipping might be a bit extreme. But maybe that will lead to more new Glitches being found. In case we do end up banning Aim-Clipping, I propose the category name "NoScope%" :P

Regarding Artistics second point; I, too, think that skips should not be in-/excluded depending on how much we like them. If they seem to be completely or even occasionally random though, we should think about banning them.

brassmaster

2016-02-23 10:19:48 pm

I keep forgetting to post about this, but there is a cutscene skip in the Prophet's Tomb. It really isnt too bad (ela called it risky, but I haven't failed it yet). It's at 9:10 in my current PB http://www.twitch.tv/brsmstr/v/49321248

other edits for the glitch list:
Bear skip add in AX-climb (for console using either available route)
Aim&something has 2 effects, clipping and launching up walls. maybe mention which is which since Console cant use any of the launch up walls? (yet, I need to test more areas, but I'm not optimistic)
Prophet's Tomb Skip should be Prophets Blessing. the Tomb is the 2 level that you are calling Syria

As for another category/restrictions, I'm not sure what we would ban/alter other than do a no OoB run? an early proposed category was an All Tombs Run. dunno how interesting that would be. I fully believe a 100% run wouldn't be all that entertaining, but I have been wrong before.

@samuraiblue my 1:58 is not that great of a run. 1:55 will be an easy goal and I'm sure sub Console TR2013 will happen soon when I have more time to test and add in new stuff.

I keep forgetting to post about this, but there is a cutscene skip in the Prophet's Tomb.  It really isnt too bad (ela called it risky, but I haven't failed it yet).  It's at 9:10 in my current PB http://www.twitch.tv/brsmstr/v/49321248

other edits for the glitch list:
Bear skip add in AX-climb (for console using either available route)
Aim&something has 2 effects, clipping and launching up walls. maybe mention which is which since Console cant use any of the launch up walls? (yet, I need to test more areas, but I'm not optimistic)
Prophet's Tomb Skip should be Prophets Blessing. the Tomb is the 2 level that you are calling Syria

As for another category/restrictions, I'm not sure what we would ban/alter other than do a no OoB run?  an early proposed category was an All Tombs Run. dunno how interesting that would be.  I fully believe a 100% run wouldn't be all that entertaining, but I have been wrong before.

@samuraiblue my 1:58 is not that great of a run.  1:55 will be an easy goal and I'm sure sub Console TR2013 will happen soon when I have more time to test and add in new stuff.

Konjux

2016-02-24 02:10:35 am

Newbie Speedrunner - hitbox streamer

I wholeheartedly agree, that the Any% runs as of now are WAY too RNG, so many times have I raged at the game being 3 - 5 minutes ahead of my PB just to drop it all on the floor because one wall decides it doesn't like to be clipped through at the given time.
But then again, the Any% is all about getting through the game in the fastest way possible, but if that way is so inconsistent (because of RNG) it's really no fun to run it.

I don't see a 100% run being appealing either. It can be/is a thing, sure, just not my cup of tea.

Then there's Glitchless Any% runs, those can be fun, depending on who you are.

RotTR just seems like a game that doesn't fit a melee only or pistol only or whatever only, playstyle because of certain areas.

But I completely agree with @Artistic, all there is left is RNG and backscrambles.

But I also see it this way, now we've broken the game enough to start piecing fun routes together, no?

Eydas

2016-02-26 03:10:25 am

Infinite skill points!

You can get Field Medic pretty quickly this way (just one more skill points than what I got in the video).
I think it could actually be worth it since we're doing load removal and you can enter and exit the campfire almost immediately.

TheArtisticBallistic

Edit history:

TheArtisticBallistic: 2016-02-26 11:15:06 am

2016-02-26 05:01:09 am

So we are using load removal now?

EDIT: So new pb is 1:22:07 without load remvoal http://www.twitch.tv/theartisticballistic/v/50911035

Sub 1:20 with loads sure is possible.

TheArtisticBallistic

2016-02-26 11:39:14 am

I post this on behalf of Aphox.

We can do prison break and skip the pistol. You can get the upgraded pistol later when you equip it at a campfire.

Gj Aphox.

MrTau

2016-02-26 12:32:23 pm

so i restarted my pc after a while and now load removal works again.... previously my game crashed at a random spot right in the end losing me my sub 1:25 real time run ... i reallly would like to use load removal but if the game crashes it wont work anymore and i think it might need further testing i would be ok with us using it tho just also take your real time from the vod or something .... finally here for anyone interested my higlight of me loosing the run http://www.twitch.tv/mrtau/v/50921237 Cheesy

TheArtisticBallistic

2016-02-26 06:47:43 pm

Shoutouts to Eydas for the idea! We now have a faster corela skip which is now called Eyball skip obviously:

And this is my setup for prophet clip:

TheArtisticBallistic

2016-02-27 09:18:46 pm

Finally sub 1:20! My guess is a really good run will be ~1:15 rta and ~ 1:08 without loads.

ShiroChan

2016-02-28 04:32:55 am

Hey Artistic,here is my prophet clip,how about it?:)

TheArtisticBallistic

Edit history:

TheArtisticBallistic: 2016-02-28 10:43:46 am

2016-02-28 10:06:44 am

Looks good ShiroChan. But what's your frame rate? Because that's gonna be important.¨

EDIT: Ok I got it to work at 100 fps with some changes. Works much better and faster now thanks!