Phantasy Star IV

Edit history:

discoransom: 2014-10-07 11:09:10 pm

discoransom: 2014-10-07 11:08:33 pm

2014-10-07 11:07:06 pm

Did a little recording tonight. Managed 5m23s (in two segments because screw sitting through the opening cinematic a million times) to beat the academy basement and save when first entering the overworld. 5m16s is about the best possible. My old time was 5:31. I'm keeping this one. It took about 2 hours of attempts to get a good basement segment.

krevett

2014-10-08 01:02:47 am

This is a good beginning! I hope you'll be able to post your unofficial run so that people start seing it as possible and try to beat your time in an official way Smiley

Grinding in Rykros is probably the best as you said Kyra will get the same XP. Keep us posted and good luck with that shitty goddess third form!

discoransom

Edit history:

discoransom: 2014-10-08 04:53:11 pm

2014-10-08 04:26:59 pm

Just ruined hours of work by accidentally saving over my game after making a crucial error. Very frustrating. Forgot to unequip Rune in Tonoe. Review your segments before recording them, Stupid.

I had entered Tonoe right at 9:00, which is pretty damn good.

Gyoo

Edit history:

Gyoo: 2014-10-09 01:31:57 am

2014-10-09 01:31:22 am

The cake is a lie

Hey guys,

I'm a Phantasy Star Online runner, and recently we implemented leaderboards for several Phantasy Star games over Speedrun.com, indeed we included Phantasy Star IV

If you want to check it out and get it active, here you are : http://www.speedrun.com/phantasy_star_iv

PS : If someone wants to handle it better than I do, just ask and I can give you moderator rights so you can change everything the way you want Wink

discoransom

Edit history:

discoransom: 2014-10-10 10:39:09 pm

discoransom: 2014-10-10 10:38:25 pm

discoransom: 2014-10-10 10:37:11 pm

discoransom: 2014-10-10 10:36:24 pm

2014-10-10 10:30:20 pm

If I had not screwed up and ruined my save, I wouldn't have discovered how to leave Piata in 4:59...I found an improvement (minor exploit) that saves me 20+ seconds, and wasn't found by the TAS. You can Earth Igglanova, and if he stays Earthlocked for one round, you can run away, and the game thinks you defeated him. If I could blast through Macros and dialogue pauses faster, and put in many more hours of work to get a perfect dungeon + perfect boss, I think 4:50 is possible for a human. I don't yet know if any other bosses are affected by this. I'd be surprised if that were the case. Igglanova appears more than once, as does Gy L from Ladea Tower. I'll check him out too.

discoransom

2014-10-10 10:33:46 pm

Quote from Gyoo:

Hey guys,

I'm a Phantasy Star Online runner, and recently we implemented leaderboards for several Phantasy Star games over Speedrun.com, indeed we included Phantasy Star IV

If you want to check it out and get it active, here you are : http://www.speedrun.com/phantasy_star_iv

PS : If someone wants to handle it better than I do, just ask and I can give you moderator rights so you can change everything the way you want Wink

If this game picks up more interest and more people working on it, that would be cool. For now it seems like one person works on it for a while, gets frustrated, and moves on to something else. I'll be happy to start a discussion over there if I get at least one full route completed though.

discoransom

2014-10-10 11:37:52 pm

I hit many bosses in my save state library with spells like Earth, Stasis, Instant Death stuff, etc. There is a minor boss when you pick up Wren (who causes the ship to crash on Dezolis), and he can be Eliminated. I already knew that though, so I didn't find anything new.

krevett

Edit history:

krevett: 2014-10-11 01:13:36 am

2014-10-11 01:11:32 am

Hahaha didn't know the Igglanova trick, rather funny that they allowed it but only if IGG is paralyzed. Even when we're thinking that everything has benn found we still discover minor tricks that's great!
If one day you post an unofficial run with this tactic, I bet the TAS will get an improvement as well!

discoransom

Edit history:

discoransom: 2014-10-13 11:18:30 pm

discoransom: 2014-10-13 11:16:50 pm

discoransom: 2014-10-13 11:07:56 pm

2014-10-13 11:07:05 pm

hehe, I was a little too stoked when I found that. I really hope nobody breaks this game with glitches, but finding little stuff like that is cool.

5:00 leaving Piata
8:42 entering Tonoe
0 encounters in Tonoe Basement
2 encounters in Bio Plant
2 encounters from Zema through Wreckage to entering Passageway

I also merged some segments where I could reasonably do that without growing a brain tumor.

I'm at 23:21 after collecting the reward from the Sandworm (not a great fight, but at 1:40 it's still faster than my older fights). I need to buy at least 1 more Ceramic Mail and Ceramic Helm and then it's off to more Slug grinding, then Juza. I'm considering skipping the purchase of a third Ceramic Mail, since Gryz is not too helpful in the Zio fight. I already plan to kill off everybody besides Rune at Zio (he really needs the power-leveling at Zio if he's going to survive a shot of Megid vs PD). That should allow me to purchase an extra Psy Shield rather than wasting time picking up Laser Barrier. I have some testing to do, but I might be skipping the Plate System now. As long as I can buy Psy Crown for Rika (essential imo) and 2xPsy Shields, I can save time. I'll lose meseta that way, and getting the Flamesword for DF2 might become an issue. But I think I can solve that problem when I get to Dezolis.

Have much testing to do before proceeding.

hehe, I was a little too stoked when I found that.  I really hope nobody breaks this game with glitches, but finding little stuff like that is cool.

5:00 leaving Piata
8:42 entering Tonoe
0 encounters in Tonoe Basement
2 encounters in Bio Plant
2 encounters from Zema through Wreckage to entering Passageway

I also merged some segments where I could reasonably do that without growing a brain tumor.

I'm at 23:21 after collecting the reward from the Sandworm (not a great fight, but at 1:40 it's still faster than my older fights).  I need to buy at least 1 more Ceramic Mail and Ceramic Helm and then it's off to more Slug grinding, then Juza.  I'm considering skipping the purchase of a third Ceramic Mail, since Gryz is not too helpful in the Zio fight.  I already plan to kill off everybody besides Rune at Zio (he really needs the power-leveling at Zio if he's going to survive a shot of Megid vs PD).  That should allow me to purchase an extra Psy Shield rather than wasting time picking up Laser Barrier.  I have some testing to do, but I might be skipping the Plate System now.  As long as I can buy Psy Crown for Rika (essential imo) and 2xPsy Shields, I can save time.  I'll lose meseta that way, and getting the Flamesword for DF2 might become an issue.  But I think I can solve that problem when I get to Dezolis.

Have much testing to do before proceeding.

krevett

2014-10-14 02:13:58 am

Very good time for now, the fight vs Zio might need many retry to have only Rune by the end but it's probably worth it! Also if you can avoid the plate system that will gain you some precious time... And as you said when grinding on Dezolis you'll probably earn enough to buy the flame sword, the only downside is that you'll have less mesetas by the end to buy star and sol dews.

discoransom

Edit history:

discoransom: 2014-10-16 03:44:52 am

2014-10-16 03:44:23 am

Tested all the way to Rykros on the save where I skipped the Plate System. It's okay, just very very tight on money. Using the same leveling strategies from before, I then took a defensive approach to the Air Castle (after leveling Rika to Warla). Chaz had Ceramic Mail (!) and 2 Reflect Shields. Rika had Psy Crown, Reflect Mail, one Reflect Shield, and the Silver Tusk. Rune had two Psy Shields. I had to sell a Sol Dew to afford all the armor plus the Flamesword. Going with this strategy makes Lashiec easier to beat than using an offensive strategy with Chaz wielding a Sword.

I then played through DF 2 & 3 with this setup, and I like the way it plays out. Seth has exactly the right amount of Deathspells to let my guys level one additional time by killing Fract Oozes in the Soldier Temple. I have just barely enough dews to defeat DF3. I think this is the way to go, for me at least.

I still have no idea what my time will be leaving Motavia, but it should be under an hour without a problem. I'm ready to finish grinding before the Juza fight. Should have a decent time for that in the next few days, and if everything goes well, I'll have my time for Motavia in a week or two.

Tested all the way to Rykros on the save where I skipped the Plate System.  It's okay, just very very tight on money.  Using the same leveling strategies from before, I then took a defensive approach to the Air Castle (after leveling Rika to Warla).  Chaz had Ceramic Mail (!) and 2 Reflect Shields.  Rika had Psy Crown, Reflect Mail, one Reflect Shield, and the Silver Tusk.  Rune had two Psy Shields.  I had to sell a Sol Dew to afford all the armor plus the Flamesword.  Going with this strategy makes Lashiec easier to beat than using an offensive strategy with Chaz wielding a Sword.

I then played through DF 2 & 3 with this setup, and I like the way it plays out.  Seth has exactly the right amount of Deathspells to let my guys level one additional time by killing Fract Oozes in the Soldier Temple.  I have just barely enough dews to defeat DF3.  I think this is the way to go, for me at least.

I still have no idea what my time will be leaving Motavia, but it should be under an hour without a problem.  I'm ready to finish grinding before the Juza fight.  Should have a decent time for that in the next few days, and if everything goes well, I'll have my time for Motavia in a week or two.

Adgey

2014-10-16 11:40:20 am

Wow nice find with the Igglanova Earth thing. I was working on single segment a few months ago but kind of forgot about it for a while. I really feel like getting back into it though, I almost had a full route down and was close to getting a complettion with it before I stopped.

I think a good single segment run at this point with the route I had would be about 3:10. But its pretty frustrating in parts. (Zio would kill the run at least half the time even with perfect decision making on him). My best Motovia exit was 1:08 if i recall correctly. You're doing segmented disco?

discoransom

Edit history:

discoransom: 2014-10-16 11:57:09 am

discoransom: 2014-10-16 11:54:21 am

2014-10-16 11:53:59 am

Yeah I'm working on segmented, cool to hear you're still interested in this. Single segment is just a whole different level of hard. I'll be seriously impressed if you can get that done.

On Zio, I think the most efficient strategy is to keep everyone alive for a while, and then deal the last 500 (?) or so damage with only Rune alive. He can tank Zio like a champ except for the 1/8 chance single target attack, and even that he can survive with a few uses of Woodcane. The power-leveling boost really helps him later in the game as well. If he can survive one shot of Megid vs Profound Darkness, he can often contribute a lot of damage before dying. On the other hand, single segment presents other challenges which I haven't anticipated, so that strategy just might not work.

1:08 single segment is very fast. Do you mind sharing your route or are you keeping it to yourself for now?

Adgey

2014-10-16 12:15:20 pm

For Zio I remember I needed to keep rika alive as well becasue I needed gisar for the Air Castle so getting the exp from Zio was pretty crucial.

I haven't played ina few months so certain details of my route aren't clear at in my mind at the moment. I'll have a chance to play tomorrow and I'm sure it'll come back after playing pretty quickly and then I'll post a detailed route of Motivia on here.

By the way can someone recomend a good capture card thing to get? I'm pretty clueless about it.

discoransom

2014-10-16 08:16:05 pm

Ah, that makes good sense about Rika. It would be cool to hear your equipment choices and strategies. I'm clueless about recording issues.

After some more fights w/Profound Darkness, I wonder if my levels (30 Chaz, 30 Rune, 29 Wren, 32 Rika, 32 Kyra) are the right choice. At these levels, I feel the battle is roughly 10% to win given 5 Sol and 15 Star Dews. But every turn on forms 2&3 are subtle and different. Macros are not terribly useful and thumbing through the inventory for item casts each turn is so slow. There may be merit in leveling up a bit more so that a more offensive and standardized fight can be had making heavy use of macros.

With 4 members in the party, one Sandworm that is surprise-attacked (not a terribly rare occurrence) can easily be killed in 1.5 rounds of combat (Using Blizzard + attacks). It works every single time, and gives 4 party members 4715XP each. That is by far the most efficient way I have found to level in the late game. At roughly 30 seconds per fight (haven't timed it yet), that is very good rate. If more leveling is needed before the final boss, I suspect it will consist of grinding for worms around Monsen.

Ah, that makes good sense about Rika.  It would be cool to hear your equipment choices and strategies.  I'm clueless about recording issues.

After some more fights w/Profound Darkness, I wonder if my levels (30 Chaz, 30 Rune, 29 Wren, 32 Rika, 32 Kyra) are the right choice.  At these levels, I feel the battle is roughly 10% to win given 5 Sol and 15 Star Dews.  But every turn on forms 2&3 are subtle and different.  Macros are not terribly useful and thumbing through the inventory for item casts each turn is so slow.  There may be merit in leveling up a bit more so that a more offensive and standardized fight can be had making heavy use of macros.

With 4 members in the party, one Sandworm that is surprise-attacked (not a terribly rare occurrence) can easily be killed in 1.5 rounds of combat (Using Blizzard + attacks).  It works every single time, and gives 4 party members 4715XP each.  That is by far the most efficient way I have found to level in the late game.  At roughly 30 seconds per fight (haven't timed it yet), that is very good rate.  If more leveling is needed before the final boss, I suspect it will consist of grinding for worms around Monsen.

krevett

Edit history:

krevett: 2014-10-17 06:25:39 am

2014-10-17 06:19:40 am

Good to hear again from you Adgey Wink

For the capture thing perhaps posting a subject in a more general section of the forum will get you an answer as I can't help you...Take a look at the Tech Support or Knowledge Base parts of the SDA forums!

discoransom

2014-10-17 12:34:59 pm

Taking Chaz up to level 32 makes a big difference on the number of attacks I get in vs Profound Darkness. I also had many turns vs the Final Form that could have been Macro'd. This is probably my final setup for the endgame:

Wren 31 HP315
Palma Ring
SonicBuster
Guardarmor

Chaz 32 HP210
Algo Ring
Elsydeon
LacoMail

Rika 34 HP206
Mota Ring
Guardshield
Silver Tusk
Guarmail

Rune 31 HP149
Dezo Ring
Psy Shield
Psy Shield
Guard Robe

Kyra 32 HP181
Laco Crown
Reflect Shield
Reflect Shield
Reclect Robe

Rune survives Megid almost every time. I do occasionally get my guys one-shotted to death in the first and third forms. Not sure if that's preventable. If anyone has suggestions for a better equipment setup, I'd be happy to try. There doesn't seem to be any way around taking tons of damage from Megid, whether I use magic resist or physical resist gear.

krevett

2014-10-17 01:12:24 pm

In the first form only shadow breath is a real threat (I suppose that this is the attack that one shot one of your char!)
Does equipping Chaz with reflectmail instead of lacomail increases his survability against megid? I can't think of a better setup you seem to have the optimal equipment for a speedrun, but I can be wrong of course! The final fight will require some luck for sure (and I can't even imagine that in a single-segment ^^ as discor said I would really be impressed if you manage such a run Adgey!!)

RedArremer

2014-10-17 03:00:42 pm

I don't think I've really elaborated on my Zio strategies when I did it, but honestly, I was just throwing everything I had at him (i.e. most damage powers, then spells, then just attack with the highest damage characters). I think I managed to beat him with most characters alive (I think only Demi had been dead). My party was in the area of level 14, and I thought getting to 15 or 16 would make Zio much easier to deal with, but I'm not sure how much it applies to Segmented.

discoransom

2014-10-17 03:20:39 pm

Quote from RedArremer:

I don't think I've really elaborated on my Zio strategies when I did it, but honestly, I was just throwing everything I had at him (i.e. most damage powers, then spells, then just attack with the highest damage characters). I think I managed to beat him with most characters alive (I think only Demi had been dead). My party was in the area of level 14, and I thought getting to 15 or 16 would make Zio much easier to deal with, but I'm not sure how much it applies to Segmented.

On my segmented, I'm fighting Zio at levels 15/14 (I think Demi is 13?). I've been using healing during my tests. Are you saying you were able to just blitz his butt? Because that would be very cool. I'm not interested in keeping anybody alive except Rune for powerleveling purposes. I blitz Gy L. and it works but I wasn't aware that could work on Zio.

discoransom

Edit history:

discoransom: 2014-10-17 03:29:01 pm

2014-10-17 03:28:38 pm

Quote from krevett:

In the first form only shadow breath is a real threat (I suppose that this is the attack that one shot one of your char!)
Does equipping Chaz with reflectmail instead of lacomail increases his survability against megid? I can't think of a better setup you seem to have the optimal equipment for a speedrun, but I can be wrong of course! The final fight will require some luck for sure (and I can't even imagine that in a single-segment ^^ as discor said I would really be impressed if you manage such a run Adgey!!)

Yessir, Shadowbreath is sometimes a pain. Maybe Reflect Mail helps with that? I'm always a little unsure how well resists are working, and what spells are ignoring or vulnerable to resists. Guess I have some research to do lol.

discoransom

2014-10-19 09:53:46 pm

Minor update, I made a decent run through Juza and I'm currently making attempts at Ladea Tower. Juza took me about 5 hours of tries, and I'm about 8 hours into Ladea Tower attempts with no success. Allowing for 6 random encounters (plus getting the second star dew) and no "cannot escape". I forgot just how patient you have to be in that castle.

discoransom

2014-10-20 08:52:21 am

Finally got a decent time through Ladea Tower. ~6:00, which includes getting an out of the way star dew, equip/macros, the boss fight, and the Alys death cinematic. Managed to kill off both Demi and Gryz during the fight, which is nice for XP considerations. It's about 20 seconds faster than I've done it before, though it's not what I would call a pretty segment. Had to lower my standards for random encounters because I was ready to throw my controller. I think 5:30-5:40 is the time to shoot for but I'm okay with this. The only things left to do on Motavia are some slug grind fights and Nurvus/Zio, followed by Fissure of Fear.

krevett

2014-10-20 09:15:47 am

Are you going to do the fissure of fear quest with only Chaz, Rune and Rika? If so what time are you aiming for leaving Motavia (including Zio's death cinematic and Fissure of fear quest)?
I'm really eager to wath your run discor ^^

discoransom

2014-10-20 09:30:30 am

Yes, Fissure of Fear is for leveling up those three, it helps a ton. All I know is that the Motavia time should be under an hour by my estimation. But I'm waiting until I've finished all of Motavia to check the time.

Unfortunately my last save got corrupted somehow. My game thinks I'm still at the start of Ladea Tower, so I have to do it again. Very frustrating. I have video of me saving my game properly, but for whatever reason it got lost. That's a lot of work down the drain. Maybe I should save in a different slot.