Phantasy Star IV

2014-11-03 11:44:21 am

Thanks for the recommendation on the gamepad, Krevett.

That 1:07 is pretty smooth, nicely done. I see what you mean about Rika surviving the Zio single target, seems very reliable. I do think you would benefit from a GiFoi/Woodcane and/or GiFoi/Gires macro, it could save you a good chunk of time in that fight.

krevett

2014-11-03 11:57:52 am

Just watched your run, your route seems very reliable, few mistakes for single-segment practice (I just smiled when Rika was saying "how boring, nothing here" maybe 4 times in a row in front of machine center but I know single-segment is very demanding on the nerves ^^). Just got unlucky with Rika dying during the first fight in wreckage, that aside very good slug hunting and great Juza fight Wink

For the Zio fight I don't know if macro would gain that much time as he only enters command for 2 characters and the GiFoi/Woodcane macro could end up healing Rune if he has lost a bit of hp (1 by 1 but still he loses them!) and put Rika in a dangerous situation...Perhaps Adgey could enlighten us on this point!

That said if you manage to put all of this together I'm eager to see you practicing on Dezolis ^^ looks promising! Thanks for the video.

Adgey

2014-11-03 06:36:39 pm

Making those macros is probably a good idea, I was also thinking its probably better to equip rika with two shields before Zio and just wood cane/gifoi the entire fight with 0 risk of dying. Doubleslash only does about 20 more dmg than gofoi so It won't take many more rounds to kill him, also I can just have one macro wood cane/gifoi and just spam that the entire fight not even needing to gires. That probably ends up being safer AND faster. Ill do that next time for sure. 1:05 Motovia (leaving on the ship to Zelan) is probably gonna end up being the standard to reach for a great time in an optimized single segment run. I'll practice Dezolis later, its not nearly as optimized as motovia at the moment.

discoransom

Edit history:

discoransom: 2014-11-03 06:56:37 pm

discoransom: 2014-11-03 06:55:17 pm

discoransom: 2014-11-03 06:53:00 pm

discoransom: 2014-11-03 06:51:56 pm

2014-11-03 06:49:41 pm

edit: What I just wrote below may not apply at all when using 2 shields...reading comprehension ftw

I'm afraid he might nuke her with a wood cane spam due to something like Hewn+Corrosion+single target. Though I suppose you can switch to a Gires now and then when she dips below like 65HP? Wood Cane for Hewn and GiRes for Corrosion makes for a good brain trigger, one that you can just do automatically. I used those two macros in earlier test versions of segmented and it was good. In practice I've found that any set of attacks I use twice or more is faster with a Macro. Of course setting a bunch of Macros is a real mental strain! I think earlier in the thread, Starbird said that he was resetting more due to bad menu play than other reasons...I feel his pain.

Exciting that you've made good progress here. Even though I've put my heart into segmented, I'm much more excited for single seg as a finished product. Segmented is more of a technical exercise than a skillful one. If I can be of help testing different setups, lemme know. I can clone your Motavia route on emu without too much trouble I think.

As for my run, I'm starting with the recording up to the Sandworm tonight. I'm projecting about 2 weeks for that.

edit: What I just wrote below may not apply at all when using 2 shields...reading comprehension ftw

I'm afraid he might nuke her with a wood cane spam due to something like Hewn+Corrosion+single target.  Though I suppose you can switch to a Gires now and then when she dips below like 65HP?  Wood Cane for Hewn and GiRes for Corrosion makes for a good brain trigger, one that you can just do automatically.  I used those two macros in earlier test versions of segmented and it was good.  In practice I've found that any set of attacks I use twice or more is faster with a Macro.  Of course setting a bunch of Macros is a real mental strain!  I think earlier in the thread, Starbird said that he was resetting more due to bad menu play than other reasons...I feel his pain.

Exciting that you've made good progress here.  Even though I've put my heart into segmented, I'm much more excited for single seg as a finished product.  Segmented is more of a technical exercise than a skillful one.  If I can be of help testing different setups, lemme know.  I can clone your Motavia route on emu without too much trouble I think.

As for my run, I'm starting with the recording up to the Sandworm tonight.  I'm projecting about 2 weeks for that.

Adgey

Edit history:

Adgey: 2014-11-03 07:17:47 pm

2014-11-03 06:56:39 pm

Cool man, it will be nice to see segmented too. Won't corruption/hewn do 1 dmg to rika with two shields? I'll test it later soometime.

Haha krevett I got distracted for a minute which is why i was standing outside the machine center for a little bit.;)

Adgey

2014-11-07 01:22:40 am

I started practicing dezolis today after learning all the bosses. It's a little longer than I thought. My first attempt I was on pace for around a 1:30 which seems pretty slow to me. I'm sure I can get it down to 1:15-1:20 which would put me at about 2:30 going into the final stretch of the game. I'm probably looking at around 3:30 on a first completion but I can see single segment going as low as 3:05-3:10.

discoransom

Edit history:

discoransom: 2014-11-07 06:06:02 pm

2014-11-07 09:16:41 am

How is the grinding for Dezo looking? Are you able to use a grind/loot style similar to the Wreckage, or will you need to do dedicated grinding?

Also rewatching your 1:07, would it not be faster and cheaper to stay at Alys & Chaz's house, rather than staying at the Inn in Aeido? I tried a couple runs today with your route to get a feel for it, and it seems solid from a play pov- a good balance of risk and reliability for a SS. I do think the Titantium Crown is a fine thing to grab instead of Graphite, but the shields seem essential. I got totally murdered without them.

Adgey

2014-11-07 10:57:26 pm

I have to have one pretty big dedicated grind in the Dezolis route I have at the moment. There's no way around (at least I can't see one) getting gisar for the Air Castle. You can't do lassic without it (actually maybe you could if you dumped all your dews but youre probably going to need them all for later on, at the moment I'm using 0 star dews on Dezolis). So that's a big chunk of the time on dezo. The Air castle itself can be done in about 15 minutes or less. lassic and the gaurds are pretty quick fights usually if the gaurds don't troll me. I still haven't completely learned the G Tower layout yet that place is pretty confusing might just have to practice running through there a few times. This is how I'd rank the bosses on there with my current route easiest to hardest:

Dark force 1 - pretty much 0 chance of dying
Lassic and dark force 2 - not sure which has greater chance to end the run yet, I have semi safe strats on them
The three gaurds - definitely the most annoying boss so far. They can either get destroyed in a few turns or they can do some ridiculous thing like gizanx3 (wipe) or gizan x 2 before barrier (wipe) or even if they get turns before I get barrier/warla off with their normal single target attacks and then people die and I have to improvise the rest of the fight. I still have a pretty high success rate on them but it's pretty annoying boss that macros are difficult to use becasue so many different things can happen.

I might try getting the titanium crown instead next time I play motovia, and yeah staying in the Aeido inn costs a bit because of the little event that happens. I just remembered theres an inn in Mile that I can stay at that would save a few seconds. Thanks for the suggestions.

I have to have one pretty big dedicated grind in the Dezolis route I have at the moment. There's no way around (at least I can't see one) getting gisar for the Air Castle. You can't do lassic without it (actually maybe you could if you dumped all your dews but youre probably going to need them all for later on, at the moment I'm using 0 star dews on Dezolis). So that's a big chunk of the time on dezo. The Air castle itself can be done in about 15 minutes or less. lassic and the gaurds are pretty quick fights usually if the gaurds don't troll me. I still haven't completely learned the G Tower layout yet that place is pretty confusing might just have to practice running through there a few times. This is how I'd rank the bosses on there with my current route easiest to hardest:

Dark force 1 - pretty much 0 chance of dying
Lassic and dark force 2 - not sure which has greater chance to end the run yet, I have semi safe strats on them
The three gaurds - definitely the most annoying boss so far. They can either get destroyed in a few turns or they can do some ridiculous thing like gizanx3 (wipe) or gizan x 2 before barrier (wipe) or even if they get turns before I get barrier/warla off with their normal single target attacks and then people die and I have to improvise the rest of the fight. I still have a pretty high success rate on them but it's pretty annoying boss that macros are difficult to use becasue so many different things can happen.

I might try getting the titanium crown instead next time I play motovia, and yeah staying in the Aeido inn costs a bit because of the little event that happens. I just remembered theres an inn in Mile that I can stay at that would save a few seconds. Thanks for the suggestions.

discoransom

2014-11-09 09:59:09 pm

Ran into a big issues while setting up for a recording of this game. On my PC version, the save feature is wonky and unreliable, and I'm having too many issues with Open Broadcaster and switching between the dedicated game window and the game menu window. Short story, I don't think I'll be able to record an official segmented run for this, and may be stuck with producing a vid from Fusion emu.

Adgey

2014-12-17 08:58:07 am

Oops, I kind of forgot about the game again. I'll try finish a run after december maybe, if anyone is still keen to see one.

Riskbreaker Y

2014-12-17 03:16:27 pm

berserker status

Yea and others too probably. I understand how you want to get a really really good time, but maybe just setting a benchmark should be your goal for the near future. I really want to see a complete SS for this one. Good luck

discoransom

2014-12-17 11:29:09 pm

Ha, good to hear you haven't forgotten, I haven't either. I'll ask Santa for some free time in 2015 to continue my work on segmented, though SS is clearly the run that does this game justice.

krevett

2014-12-18 03:32:22 pm

Great to hear again from you guys Wink

I always check this topic from time to time!!

krevett

2015-08-02 04:05:25 am

Hi guys, sorry for the unearth of the topic, is this run abandoned? It seems Santa wasn't able to answer disco's call Wink

Anyway I'm still passing by sometime ans hoping for this to come true, hope to see you again adgey and disco!

bichphuongballz

Edit history:

bichphuongballz: 2015-08-02 01:15:18 pm

2015-08-02 01:14:59 pm

bichGOAL

i believe twitch.tv/jiseed is working on a route these days. He has already done good things with 2 and 3, so I would imagine 4 will be no different.

discoransom

2015-08-10 09:58:48 am

Nice, the thread returns.

Went digging through my files and recordings and I still have a reasonably well-optimized route for segmented. Did I ever mention that Garuberk tower is an absolute nightmare? Anyway my basic strat is to overlevel on Sandworms as soon as you get Kyra. It carries you all the way to the end without having to grind more. Everything else revolves around that. Single segment can't take advantage of the worms I don't think. Santa didn't bring me the free time, krevett! Glad to know the SS is getting some love, it will be awesome to see a finished product one day.

Jiseed

2015-08-10 01:50:12 pm

Hi there, I've created a route for Single Segment/RTA and I'd figure I'd share it for criticism and just so people can take a look. I've gotten a time of under 5 hours during a very relaxed run in which I was merely testing out the route. I'm optimistic that a run with solid luck can be close to 4 hours though. I may be playing it a tad safe at parts, but I wanted to offer a better than even chance of winning in most scenarios (barring terrible RNG). A lot of the route comes from this thread, as well as the gamefaqs thread about the low level game. I'll link it below.

https://goo.gl/tDqg97

jumptasm

2015-08-10 06:26:20 pm

What a strange coincidence! I have also been working on a single segment route for this game over the past month or so. It's not quite as fleshed out as Jiseed's just yet. I've studied this thread and the following 2 gamefaqs topics at length.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/563334-phantasy-star-iv/61457436

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/563334-phantasy-star-iv/47833653

I think your route looks solid Jiseed. Can't wait to test it out. Mine varies quite a bit in certain places. Now I'm extra motivated to finish it so you can pick it apart Smiley

I think you have to play it safe to a certain degree with this game and the mechanics of it. Levels and equipment are so important that while it may theoretically be possible to finish the game in 3-3.5 hours, I have a hard time believing anyone can realistically get through the RNG gauntlet of Lashiec/DF2/DF3/PD in a single segment run with that time.

All that being said, I'm new to this community(1st post wooo!), and I don't want to step on anyone's toes. I'm doing this purely for fun. I started following SDA around GDQ 2013 and look forward to it every year. Phantasy Star IV is one of my favorite games of all time, I play it casually every year around Christmas as a tradition. I was shocked to find out that there was no run for this game and decided I would work on one myself.

What a strange coincidence! I have also been working on a single segment route for this game over the past month or so. It's not quite as fleshed out as Jiseed's just yet. I've studied this thread and the following 2 gamefaqs topics at length.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/563334-phantasy-star-iv/61457436

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/563334-phantasy-star-iv/47833653

I think your route looks solid Jiseed. Can't wait to test it out. Mine varies quite a bit in certain places. Now I'm extra motivated to finish it so you can pick it apart :) I think you have to play it safe to a certain degree with this game and the mechanics of it. Levels and equipment are so important that while it may theoretically be possible to finish the game in 3-3.5 hours, I have a hard time believing anyone can realistically get through the RNG gauntlet of Lashiec/DF2/DF3/PD in a single segment run with that time.

All that being said, I'm new to this community(1st post wooo!), and I don't want to step on anyone's toes. I'm doing this purely for fun. I started following SDA around GDQ 2013 and look forward to it every year. Phantasy Star IV is one of my favorite games of all time, I play it casually every year around Christmas as a tradition. I was shocked to find out that there was no run for this game and decided I would work on one myself.

squidfeatures

2015-08-10 07:07:55 pm

Can I hop on this coincidence train? I just happened to catch one of Jiseed's streams testing Motavia/Desolis routing last week after reading this thread. I kinda have the same motivation as you jumptasm. After watching SDGQ this year I wanted to try out some running for a game I really liked, and it seemed like PSIV was a good fit; solid game, but a little off the beaten path.

My skills like more in organization/optimization than in actual running, as this is my first run of anything ever. But I've been using this thread and Jiseed's run from last week to come up with a rough draft of an optimal path, as well as detailed instructions for boss battles. I have nothing online yet, just got a new laptop so I'm trying to get everything resorted. But the new laptop also means I can do some video capture stuff eventually.

And although so far we have to play the game pretty straight, I'm also interested in glitch hunting so I can work on that as well.

jumptasm

2015-08-11 10:45:59 am

I was able to complete a single segment run last night with a time of 4:45:53 with a bit of luck on the final boss. A wipe and reset would have pushed it slightly over the 5 hour mark. A few notes:

Completed Matovia 1:45
Defeated DF1 at 2:05
Defeated Lashiec at 3:08
Defeated DF2 at 3:28
Defeated DF3 at 4:00
Rykros towers completed at 4:20

Final levels were: Wren 32, Kyra 34, Rika 35, Rune 31, Chaz 33.

There were a few speed bumps along the way. Had 2 party wipes, one in the Courage Tower, and another on the run to the final boss. Lost a few minutes there resetting. Also, I did not use macros on any of the bosses aside from the first round of Zio. That's an area I need to get better at as I think it can save a ton of time. As Jiseed mentioned, I definitely think a well optimized run can clock in around 4 hours. My plan now is to do some slight tweaks and get everything typed up and posted so I can get some feedback from you guys.

I have never streamed, recorded, uploaded, etc. so if anyone can point me in the right direction to get started I'd love to work on getting a run posted.

I was able to complete a single segment run last night with a time of 4:45:53 with a bit of luck on the final boss. A wipe and reset would have pushed it slightly over the 5 hour mark. A few notes:

Completed Matovia 1:45
Defeated DF1 at 2:05
Defeated Lashiec at 3:08
Defeated DF2 at 3:28
Defeated DF3 at 4:00
Rykros towers completed at 4:20

Final levels were: Wren 32, Kyra 34, Rika 35, Rune 31, Chaz 33.

There were a few speed bumps along the way. Had 2 party wipes, one in the Courage Tower, and another on the run to the final boss. Lost a few minutes there resetting. Also, I did not use macros on any of the bosses aside from the first round of Zio. That's an area I need to get better at as I think it can save a ton of time. As Jiseed mentioned, I definitely think a well optimized run can clock in around 4 hours. My plan now is to do some slight tweaks and get everything typed up and posted so I can get some feedback from you guys.

I have never streamed, recorded, uploaded, etc.  so if anyone can point me in the right direction to get started I'd love to work on getting a run posted.

Taloof

2015-08-11 01:15:25 pm

First of all: Hello Everyone!

Kinda interesting to see that more people than I thought are actually working on it right now. Honestly I thought I was the only one.
I started routing that game over a month ago or even more on my own. Then I read through most parts here about motavia to get some hints on equipment optimization and now all of a sudden there are lots of people interested in SS.

So far I mainly worked on Zio% and my fastest time is 1h15minutes with 6 minutes still to be saved and I added the Zio split just recently which means that there should be 1 or 2 minutes more somewhere down the road.
I am still optimizing Motavia but will go over to Dezolis soon(-ish).

Between work and my main game Landstalker I hope I can get some progress done in this game.

Anyways, glad to see a lively interest in this game. Smiley

Jiseed

2015-08-13 08:39:03 pm

I finally got around to doing a timed run using my route and came out with a run that clocked in at about 4:01, which was close to my estimate. There was some pretty astounding RNG from the troublesome bosses, particularly Profound Darkness 3. I'll link it below for people who are interested. I also meant to post a site that has a ton of resources that helped out in planning, especially with understanding boss behaviour (http://www.wrftpb.com/psiv/).

http://www.twitch.tv/jiseed/v/10832133

Worn_Traveler

2015-08-13 08:45:24 pm

Formerly known as Skullboy

I'm glad to see people are working on this and the other Phantasy Stars over the last year or so. Good luck everyone and keep up the great work!

discoransom

2015-08-15 08:57:53 am

Quote from Jiseed:

I finally got around to doing a timed run using my route and came out with a run that clocked in at about 4:01, which was close to my estimate. There was some pretty astounding RNG from the troublesome bosses, particularly Profound Darkness 3. I'll link it below for people who are interested. I also meant to post a site that has a ton of resources that helped out in planning, especially with understanding boss behaviour (http://www.wrftpb.com/psiv/).

http://www.twitch.tv/jiseed/v/10832133

Watched this yesterday. That 4:01 was pretty low stress and smooth, looks like there's room for even better luck and improvement once you have the route totally wired in your head. I bet 3:30 is not impossible sometime down the road. It's a very solid route, nicely planned.

Two questions. Do you skip the carbon shield in Birth Valley (Just inside the entrance to the right) for a particular reason? Not sure how it shakes out but those are 220 Meseta at a stage when money is tight, and you're picking up a load of carbon shields soon anyway. Also at the end, I've found that simply robbing my companions and selling their gear for Dews is not too long a diversion. Have you considered that? I know you're also picking up great XP in Vahal and it seems reasonable to do that mission. I'm not sure where I would suggest grinding otherwise. I wonder if it's optimal for SS though.

Thanks for putting a really good run up on the board for this, hopefully that creates more interest!

[quote="Jiseed"]I finally got around to doing a timed run using my route and came out with a run that clocked in at about 4:01, which was close to my estimate. There was some pretty astounding RNG from the troublesome bosses, particularly Profound Darkness 3. I'll link it below for people who are interested. I also meant to post a site that has a ton of resources that helped out in planning, especially with understanding boss behaviour ([url]http://www.wrftpb.com/psiv/[/url]).

[url]http://www.twitch.tv/jiseed/v/10832133[/url][/quote]

Watched this yesterday.  That 4:01 was pretty low stress and smooth, looks like there's room for even better luck and improvement once you have the route totally wired in your head.  I bet 3:30 is not impossible sometime down the road.  It's a very solid route, nicely planned.

Two questions.  Do you skip the carbon shield in Birth Valley (Just inside the entrance to the right) for a particular reason?  Not sure how it shakes out but those are 220 Meseta at a stage when money is tight, and you're picking up a load of carbon shields soon anyway.  Also at the end, I've found that simply robbing my companions and selling their gear for Dews is not too long a diversion.  Have you considered that?  I know you're also picking up great XP in Vahal and it seems reasonable to do that mission.  I'm not sure where I would suggest grinding otherwise.  I wonder if it's optimal for SS though.

Thanks for putting a really good run up on the board for this, hopefully that creates more interest!

Jiseed

2015-08-15 12:19:46 pm

I wasn't aware of the other carbon shield, this could potentially save a bit of time grinding with Rune for sure, but it'd leave Hahn a little lower in XP and might constitute another trip to the Wreckage which would waste a significant amount of time. I find that simply selling your equipment before going back to Mota provides you with enough star dews, but in a setting where you'd like to be safer or are really just that low on cash, selling your companions stuff is certainly an excellent call. As far as Vahal Fort goes, I did a bit of testing at this stage of the game. The only other legitimate option for getting a few levels is the cave beneath the temple, and while the battles are fast, you gain 2x-4x more exp in the Fort due to Seth not being there and generally more exp per monster. Additionally, the fort gives Wren his best weapon, which comes in handy against PD, and the armor smooths out the DF3 fight. However, it's certainly possible to do DF3 without leveling at all after DF2, and you can grab Wren's second best weapon out of the weapons factory instead. That would just leave more grinding on Rykros, and a much lengthier DF3 fight. So overall I think its best to do the fort, at least for now.