Paper Mario (N64) Discussion and Planning Sub-4:40

André

Edit history:

André: 2012-01-26 10:48:08 am

2012-01-26 10:42:44 am

Main Work!!!

what is this A trick :O .

edit: I think I found it, it's mashing A .

Raiker Z

2012-01-26 10:45:06 am

Sweet, I'll try to have some sort of edit in tomorrow for this, one major thing I'm thinking is changing boss strats, I personally don't like the Mega Rush strat, especially in a SS. I think double dip would be something to look into (you can easily pick up 12 thunder bolts in DDO) since I'm bad at Power Bounces and I'll admit would be too chicken to attempt peril strats in a run (at least without a life shroom) that being said, i'd still say get mega rush for Lava Piranha, since he has too much HP otherwise and you can do the firebar glitch to easily get to 1 hp (also any mistakes in lava don't count against you as much)

Sub 3:30 SS sounds interesting, honestly a sub 4 sounds more probable, but I'll wait until some practice runs are mentioned, I know I wasn't too far behind the segmented, but chapter 6 SS is going to be way different then a segmented, you can waste a lot of FP there with no worries (loads of FP items there even factoring out the herbs) and the enemies can be annoying to dodge, so you'll probably get into at least one encounter you don't want.

I could easily do the heavy route-work my biggest problem seems to be recording something that SDA will accept, if someone who is good enough at the game and can record proper segments then I don't mind. I'd like to see Floogal's notes if possible too, I have my 100% ones, but they are kinda weird now, they changed about halfway through the run, and then again after the glitch, so I think they are in 2-3 parts.

Sorry 0xwas, my route will probably differ from yours more then I first thought, I'll try to work one around mega rush strats too, but I'm not big on trying that several hours into a run, so I'll probably have a different strategy for most bosses.

How much time does this save? It looks like a lot until you notice the partner switch, but it still looks like half a second or so (and per jump that will add up in a run).

Sweet, I'll try to have some sort of edit in tomorrow for this, one major thing I'm thinking is changing boss strats, I personally don't like the Mega Rush strat, especially in a SS. I think double dip would be something to look into (you can easily pick up 12 thunder bolts in DDO) since I'm bad at Power Bounces and I'll admit would be too chicken to attempt peril strats in a run (at least without a life shroom) that being said, i'd still say get mega rush for Lava Piranha, since he has too much HP otherwise and you can do the firebar glitch to easily get to 1 hp (also any mistakes in lava don't count against you as much)

Sub 3:30 SS sounds interesting, honestly a sub 4 sounds more probable, but I'll wait until some practice runs are mentioned, I know I wasn't too far behind the segmented, but chapter 6 SS is going to be way different then a segmented, you can waste a lot of FP there with no worries (loads of FP items there even factoring out the herbs) and the enemies can be annoying to dodge, so you'll probably get into at least one encounter you don't want.

I could easily do the heavy route-work my biggest problem seems to be recording something that SDA will accept, if someone who is good enough at the game and can record proper segments then I don't mind. I'd like to see Floogal's notes if possible too, I have my 100% ones, but they are kinda weird now, they changed about halfway through the run, and then again after the glitch, so I think they are in 2-3 parts.

Sorry 0xwas, my route will probably differ from yours more then I first thought, I'll try to work one around mega rush strats too, but I'm not big on trying that several hours into a run, so I'll probably have a different strategy for most bosses.

How much time does this save? It looks like a lot until you notice the partner switch, but it still looks like half a second or so (and per jump that will add up in a run).

0xwas

2012-01-26 10:56:20 am

yuri 4 life

I wrote some details on video description. I think I should write in post.
iirc, ~0.3 seconds will be saved per 1 jump.

well, ok. I thought spamming item route a bit but I didn't try after all. it's interesting how will be this strat going.

NoiseCrash

2012-01-26 11:58:28 am

@_@

Whoah, I never knew about that A jump trick. With all the jumps you do in the run that could add up to something. Nice.

Yeah I'll agree in saying sub 4 is a good SS milestone to start with, once you get the hang of it you can start bringing it down. I don't know that I'd fiddle with boss strategies that radically... in a high-quality SS it's hard to justify picking up items, double dip, going through the item's animation (twice), etc. just because you didn't want to restart due to power bounces. Power Bounce it's just too much quicker imo. It's good to have back-up plans though, I think there are a few spot in 0xwas's route that says "if you miss power bounce, power jump" and things like that. A lot of them I think use Repel Gel, Outta Sight, etc. so in most cases it's not like you miss one power bounce you restart. I think you also pick up Dodge Master too right? So it's really not unreasonable.

Raiker Z

2012-01-26 01:51:57 pm

I think your right for part of it, I'm talking about using double dip to help with difficult enemies. Jr. Troopa after chapter 3 (your still low enough that he can easily kill you), and the general guy fights (2 defence) come to mind. Neither has a terrible amount of HP, but they are a pain to deal damage at that level with power bounce (hell Gen. Guy with Mega Rush is actually harder then Huff N' Puff and Lava Piranha). Although if you get double dip you'd have to be good enough at power bounces to ignore Dodge Master. After S. Jump Charge double dip would be worthless (don't need to Mega Rush for high power bounces anymore) and Jr. Troopa after chapter 5 is a joke (although double dip means you can skip spike sheild), Lava Piranha is easy and safe to reach 1 hp on so mega rush is probably the best strat (and with a repel gel or two you wont be in trouble) and Spike? Just has too much hp for double dipping to be worth it (it'd be faster to power bounce and shell shot him rather then take the extra 5 hp of damage).

I just know I'd rather not risk a run on a strategy that is risky, you get mega rush about 1:20-1:30 into the run and manipulating 1 hp for each boss just feels like it'd ruin too many runs. Yes, if you can pull it off it would probably be a faster run, but I'd use a more consistent strat until I knew I wasn't going to mess up elsewhere. Like I said, Jr. Troopa after chapter 3 has what, 30 or 40 hp? Your completely healed when you start that fight, but maybe pulling off a Bow switch and being 1 hp would be just as easy, hell if you don't get a level on him your set for the BLG.

Idk, I'll work on a rough guide using 0xwas' route and thinking about things I have no clue how it would turn out, and I don't have enough free time to really put my route to the test and see how it compares in the next few days Tongue

I think your right for part of it, I'm talking about using double dip to help with difficult enemies. Jr. Troopa after chapter 3 (your still low enough that he can easily kill you), and the general guy fights (2 defence) come to mind. Neither has a terrible amount of HP, but they are a pain to deal damage at that level with power bounce (hell Gen. Guy with Mega Rush is actually harder then Huff N' Puff and Lava Piranha). Although if you get double dip you'd have to be good enough at power bounces to ignore Dodge Master. After S. Jump Charge double dip would be worthless (don't need to Mega Rush for high power bounces anymore) and Jr. Troopa after chapter 5 is a joke (although double dip means you can skip spike sheild), Lava Piranha is easy and safe to reach 1 hp on so mega rush is probably the best strat (and with a repel gel or two you wont be in trouble) and Spike? Just has too much hp for double dipping to be worth it (it'd be faster to power bounce and shell shot him rather then take the extra 5 hp of damage).

I just know I'd rather not risk a run on a strategy that is risky, you get mega rush about 1:20-1:30 into the run and manipulating 1 hp for each boss just feels like it'd ruin too many runs. Yes, if you can pull it off it would probably be a faster run, but I'd use a more consistent strat until I knew I wasn't going to mess up elsewhere. Like I said, Jr. Troopa after chapter 3 has what, 30 or 40 hp? Your completely healed when you start that fight, but maybe pulling off a Bow switch and being 1 hp would be just as easy, hell if you don't get a level on him your set for the BLG.

Idk, I'll work on a rough guide using 0xwas' route and thinking about things I have no clue how it would turn out, and I don't have enough free time to really put my route to the test and see how it compares in the next few days :P

0xwas

2012-01-27 02:22:04 pm

yuri 4 life

The main purpose using Dodge Master for stable more Power Bounces but avoiding reset is second though. well, I haven't found the jump timing yet. Some bosses especially in chapter 8 don't need to reset even if you miss power bounce and I think Dodge Master is enough to safe. (As far as I know, you can get 2 hidden Life Shroom and 1 hidden Repel Gel. it's good back up right?)
And I don't think there are plenty of many attack items for double dip.

Raiker Z

2012-01-27 04:57:59 pm

Ok gonna be a bit longer for my run plan, mostly because I think you'd be safe enough using Bow/Repel gels for 2/3 the fights that I would've used Double Dip for. General Guy's fight is the only one that double dip strat is probably the most consistent/safest. Manipulating 1 hp with low risk to dying would be a pain in a 100%, but not impossible if you can do basic blocks.

The repel gels I remember off the top of my head are Gusty Gulch, Lavalava island (hidden), Shiver Snowfield, and Jr. Troopa's Playground (hidden, waste of time to get in an any%). I think there is one more, but I'm forgetting its location.

As for life shrooms, the desert one should probably be collected as insurance (its on the way to DDO from the oasis anyway) other then that I can't remember where a hidden one is, but during chapter 4 you can get the cook to make you them, I think it takes a volt shroom and koopa leaf, so grab 2-3 of them when your there and throw them in the shop just in case.

The last thing I'm kinda thinking on is chill out, I'll include it in my plans, but I'm pretty sure if your in a run you could ignore it, it's like a minute of wasted time (mostly the doll star piece, or the ledge one each probably costs 30 seconds or so, then added to going to the badge mage). The only enemies that are worth having the badge for are parakoopas and buzzaps. Most other enemies that can give first strikes are pretty easy to dodge (if not the enemy itself, then the strike at least). Its probably good for practice runs, makes you feel safer and helps you learn to dodge them without taking the hits, but in a real run you'd probably want to skip it, free's up bp so less switching out there, and saves the time it takes to actually get the badge.

Ok gonna be a bit longer for my run plan, mostly because I think you'd be safe enough using Bow/Repel gels for 2/3 the fights that I would've used Double Dip for. General Guy's fight is the only one that double dip strat is probably the most consistent/safest. Manipulating 1 hp with low risk to dying would be a pain in a 100%, but not impossible if you can do basic blocks.

The repel gels I remember off the top of my head are Gusty Gulch, Lavalava island (hidden), Shiver Snowfield, and Jr. Troopa's Playground (hidden, waste of time to get in an any%). I think there is one more, but I'm forgetting its location.

As for life shrooms, the desert one should probably be collected as insurance (its on the way to DDO from the oasis anyway) other then that I can't remember where a hidden one is, but during chapter 4 you can get the cook to make you them, I think it takes a volt shroom and koopa leaf, so grab 2-3 of them when your there and throw them in the shop just in case.

The last thing I'm kinda thinking on is chill out, I'll include it in my plans, but I'm pretty sure if your in a run you could ignore it, it's like a minute of wasted time (mostly the doll star piece, or the ledge one each probably costs 30 seconds or so, then added to going to the badge mage). The only enemies that are worth having the badge for are parakoopas and buzzaps. Most other enemies that can give first strikes are pretty easy to dodge (if not the enemy itself, then the strike at least). Its probably good for practice runs, makes you feel safer and helps you learn to dodge them without taking the hits, but in a real run you'd probably want to skip it, free's up bp so less switching out there, and saves the time it takes to actually get the badge.

Raiker Z

2012-01-31 03:38:18 pm

The glitch:

Just proof that I couldn't do anything with the glitch guys I do mention that it is on VC and N64 may get past the boss room (VC is still emmulation, official but not original hardware) but this is what I got.

My sound de-syncs in a couple of places, I had no issues when I recorded NSMBW's glitch that I uploaded today so I'm thinking maybe its PM VC problems, or that PM just de-syncs sound by a bit the fight is cut out because it was really, really bad and de-sync'd the most there.

Raiker Z

Edit history:

Raiker Z: 2012-02-01 01:03:13 pm

2012-02-01 11:49:15 am

Edited in Warning: These counts may be off, I got 83 frames in the video I recorded using VirtualDub and VC's game, but 0xwas' video had 61/65 frames for his splits. Single Jump. I'm pretty sure he uses N64. This is either a version difference between VC and N64, between US and Japan, or my count was off. Personally I'm going with the last one because I'd rather believe I had an error then there's that big a difference between games.

I noticed Andre was asking on TAS for fastest attack.

Single Jump ~ 83 Frames (I do NOT believe I used the A trick)

Double Jump ~ 99 Frames (Again I think I did NOT use the A trick)

Short Hammer ~ 104 Frames

Full Hammer ~ 133 Frames

My frame count may be off I went from when Mario Started moving towards the enemy to when he reset himself back into position before the enemy attacked/died. Also sorry, but I didn't want to find the rough time for each additional power bounce and all that, by the looks of it just add like 15 frames (so 1/2 second -ish?) to each one.

EDIT: Pretty sure my times are off, but by the looks of it you save ~4 frames for the A trick. At a little under 30fps (I think its 29 flat for PM? Or is it still 29.97?) Every 7-8 attacks using the A trick saves 1 second. Idk about you but I don't feel like counting every time you use jump in game.

Edited in Warning: These counts may be off, I got 83 frames in the video I recorded using VirtualDub and VC's game, but 0xwas' video had 61/65 frames for his splits. Single Jump. I'm pretty sure he uses N64. This is either a version difference between VC and N64, between US and Japan, or my count was off. Personally I'm going with the last one because I'd rather believe I had an error then there's that big a difference between games.

I noticed Andre was asking on TAS for fastest attack.

Single Jump ~ 83 Frames (I do NOT believe I used the A trick)

Double Jump ~ 99 Frames (Again I think I did NOT use the A trick)

Short Hammer ~ 104 Frames

Full Hammer ~ 133 Frames

My frame count may be off I went from when Mario Started moving towards the enemy to when he reset himself back into position before the enemy attacked/died. Also sorry, but I didn't want to find the rough time for each additional power bounce and all that, by the looks of it just add like 15 frames (so 1/2 second -ish?) to each one.

EDIT: Pretty sure my times are off, but by the looks of it you save ~4 frames for the A trick. At a little under 30fps (I think its 29 flat for PM? Or is it still 29.97?) Every 7-8 attacks using the A trick saves 1 second. Idk about you but I don't feel like counting every time you use jump in game.

cattleprod

2012-02-01 03:19:37 pm

Yes Man Kablam

About that lava piranha room glitch, is it still broken if you save and quit in the previous room?

Raiker Z

2012-02-01 03:43:31 pm

The minute you leave the boss room it "resets" the boss room. You MUST talk to Kolorado at the top of the stairs, saving changes nothing other then leaving you with less then perfect hp/fp/sp/items.

0xwas

Edit history:

0xwas: 2012-02-03 01:20:03 am

2012-02-03 01:19:17 am

yuri 4 life

I did any% run today and got 3:58:38 in SDA timing.
I'm pretty sure sub 4 isn't hard goal because I made some silly mistakes and got final bowser's 90 HP recover in this record.
I didn't have the video though but I used the route same as translated one.

André

2012-02-03 02:22:20 pm

Main Work!!!

ok that's a pretty good news then, I'll set a sub3H50 goal at the moment and it will maybe be broken depend on the testing. I didn't have time to restart playing the game recently so I can't tell at the moment(sorry also to Raiker I didn't record the glitch because of this). I'll try to plug my wii and play around next weekend.

Floogal

2012-02-06 06:52:53 pm

Alright, sorry for taking a week to reply to your message, NoiseCrash; I was unfortunately busy.

Attached is a zip file with my old speedrunning notes. For each of the 6 planned routes:
- a txt file fully detailing the route
- a "changes" file which details any changes made from the previous route
- an excel file I used to automatically calculate when Mario would level up
- I don't think the .doc file contains anything of note.
Special mention should go to "5ed_changes.txt" and "battle_plan.txt", as there I have timed how long certain attacks take to execute, or which items save how much time on certain battles.

I also have a special fondness for the first route's elegance. You finish with no items in your inventory, as you deliberately use the Dried Shroom you're forced to buy in Dry Dry Outpost to bump Mario's HP from 7 to 8 before the last Jr. Troopa fight. Also, after the penultimate Bowser fight, you exactly hit level 12, with no star points left over.

The earlier plans contain less luck-based strategies, so you may want to pay attention to those if you're planning a single-segment run. For the most part, chapters 1 & 2 require the most measuring of attack/battle times, as you've only got a limited selection of items to go around the many fights you're forced into. For chapter 3 onwards, Mega Rush (+ possible charging) + Power Bounce wins bosses, and item/Star Storm + Bombette/Parakarry wins ordinary battles.

The main exceptions are Duplighosts, which require either an attack-boosted quake hammer (Mega Rush + Power Quake or Power Rush + Mega Quake) or an insanely well-timed Tidal Wave to one-round without luck. Or Double-Dip, I guess. The segmented strategy that didn't involve using Fright Jars/Spook/Up & Away to instantly beat them involved manipulating them to change to Bombette clones, so that you could instant-beat them with any fire/electric/explosion damage. For a single-segment run, I'd recommend settling for a two-round battle. If you don't want to risk damage, Watt's Mega Shock is guarranteed to knock them out for 4 rounds. Kooper's Dizzy Shell is pretty reliable for them, too.

Regarding coin collecting, you really want to time it. Figure out the coins/second rate, and compare it to the gold standard: buying volt shrooms, selling hot shrooms. I timed it once (forgot the exact numbers, and should be double-checked), but if you start with an empty inventory & at least 100 coins, a single round trip takes about 3 minutes, for a 50-coin profit, which translates to about 1 coin per 3.5 seconds. Any detour which takes longer should be avoided, which unfortunately would probably rule out any recipes that involve travelling about for ingredients. Picking up stuff as you do the main story is great. Don't waste time on Jelly Ultras, which only get you 150 coins (selling in Boo's Mansion for 200 coins is too long of a detour). Jelly Supers & Maple Ultras go for 100 coins apiece, and you find Volt/Super/Life Shrooms & Maple Syrups all over the place.

Finally, last out-of-the-blue thought: for a single-segment, perhaps Danger Mario after Chapter 5 would be good? It requires Peach to detour a bit in the Chapter 4-5 intermission, and Mario to detour to Merluvlee's house, but it gives pretty good defenses (if you can reliably block) & a power boost as well. Just the Defend Plus & Chapter 2 Damage Dodge & Last Stand together make Mario immune to attacks of 6 power or less. Combine with Power Bounce + HP Drain to fully recover 5 HP every round, and Power Rush to offset the attack drop, and Mario can attack every round without ever needing to stop & do something defensive. ...Nah, probably not speedy enough.

Alright, sorry for taking a week to reply to your message, NoiseCrash; I was unfortunately busy.

Attached is a zip file with my old speedrunning notes.  For each of the 6 planned routes:
- a txt file fully detailing the route
- a "changes" file which details any changes made from the previous route
- an excel file I used to automatically calculate when Mario would level up
- I don't think the .doc file contains anything of note.
Special mention should go to "5ed_changes.txt" and "battle_plan.txt", as there I have timed how long certain attacks take to execute, or which items save how much time on certain battles.

I also have a special fondness for the first route's elegance.  You finish with no items in your inventory, as you deliberately use the Dried Shroom you're forced to buy in Dry Dry Outpost to bump Mario's HP from 7 to 8 before the last Jr. Troopa fight.  Also, after the penultimate Bowser fight, you exactly hit level 12, with no star points left over.

The earlier plans contain less luck-based strategies, so you may want to pay attention to those if you're planning a single-segment run.  For the most part, chapters 1 & 2 require the most measuring of attack/battle times, as you've only got a limited selection of items to go around the many fights you're forced into.  For chapter 3 onwards, Mega Rush (+ possible charging) + Power Bounce wins bosses, and item/Star Storm + Bombette/Parakarry wins ordinary battles.

The main exceptions are Duplighosts, which require either an attack-boosted quake hammer (Mega Rush + Power Quake or Power Rush + Mega Quake) or an insanely well-timed Tidal Wave to one-round without luck.  Or Double-Dip, I guess.  The segmented strategy that didn't involve using Fright Jars/Spook/Up & Away to instantly beat them involved manipulating them to change to Bombette clones, so that you could instant-beat them with any fire/electric/explosion damage.  For a single-segment run, I'd recommend settling for a two-round battle.  If you don't want to risk damage, Watt's Mega Shock is guarranteed to knock them out for 4 rounds.  Kooper's Dizzy Shell is pretty reliable for them, too.

Regarding coin collecting, you really want to time it.  Figure out the coins/second rate, and compare it to the gold standard: buying volt shrooms, selling hot shrooms.  I timed it once (forgot the exact numbers, and should be double-checked), but if you start with an empty inventory & at least 100 coins, a single round trip takes about 3 minutes, for a 50-coin profit, which translates to about 1 coin per 3.5 seconds.  Any detour which takes longer should be avoided, which unfortunately would probably rule out any recipes that involve travelling about for ingredients.  Picking up stuff as you do the main story is great.  Don't waste time on Jelly Ultras, which only get you 150 coins (selling in Boo's Mansion for 200 coins is too long of a detour).  Jelly Supers & Maple Ultras go for 100 coins apiece, and you find Volt/Super/Life Shrooms & Maple Syrups all over the place.

Finally, last out-of-the-blue thought:  for a single-segment, perhaps Danger Mario after Chapter 5 would be good?  It requires Peach to detour a bit in the Chapter 4-5 intermission, and Mario to detour to Merluvlee's house, but it gives pretty good defenses (if you can reliably block) & a power boost as well.  Just the Defend Plus & Chapter 2 Damage Dodge & Last Stand together make Mario immune to attacks of 6 power or less.  Combine with Power Bounce + HP Drain to fully recover 5 HP every round, and Power Rush to offset the attack drop, and Mario can attack every round without ever needing to stop & do something defensive.   ...Nah, probably not speedy enough.

Attachment:

speedrun_notes.zip

kirbymastah

2012-02-06 08:07:58 pm

<(^_^)>

just wanted to say, I'm looking forward to this run! Paper Mario is personally one of my favorite games ever, and the 100% test run was amazing. Good luck! Smiley

Milligramcracker

2012-02-10 08:16:24 pm

Micromanager extraordinaire

Floogal, you are awesome. Unfortunately I'm too tired and have too much on my plate to examine your spreadsheets and notes in the detail they deserve.

0xwas

2012-02-27 12:27:27 pm

yuri 4 life

Recorded the actual run.
I changed some strats and getting items.

1, Avoid getting Maple Syrup and Shooting Star from chapter 4.
2, No Shooting star used in Monty Moles.
3, Fight Spike with 7 HP.

Raiker Z

2012-02-27 12:28:58 pm

Can't wait to free up 4 hours to watch it

BossCrab

2012-03-05 11:21:42 am

DEEP♂DARK♂FANTASY

hello all!

I'm a huge noob at speed running and I'm just getting into the scene. I really want to learn how to run Paper Mario (single-segment) really well. It is an awesome game and I'd love to add to the number of people who run it. Maybe with the goal in mind of doing it at one of those charity marathons if I get good enough (wishful thinking I'm sure!)

The only thing is I'm completely new at this sort of thing, and there's a ton of stuff here, and I'm not really sure where to start. Would a good idea be to watch 0xwas' video right there and compare it to some of Floogal's notes and/or make my own notes and go from there with trying to practice that and run it? Using 0xwas' notes on the previous page and following the video seems like a good way to get an estimate of a general route to start out on. I'm not sure what the general accepted "best" single-segment route is (or if there is one) but I'm assuming that the video shows what is more or less the best SS route currently.

Either way this all looks really awesome and I really hope I can contribute in some way, if nothing else than by just derping about with runs. I'd love to try seriously running this game and hopefully get real good at it. If you guys have any general tips for a noob please let me know! Cheers.

hello all!

I'm a huge noob at speed running and I'm just getting into the scene. I really want to learn how to run Paper Mario (single-segment) really well. It is an awesome game and I'd love to add to the number of people who run it. Maybe with the goal in mind of doing it at one of those charity marathons if I get good enough (wishful thinking I'm sure!)

The only thing is I'm completely new at this sort of thing, and there's a ton of stuff here, and I'm not really sure where to start. Would a good idea be to watch 0xwas' video right there and compare it to some of Floogal's notes and/or make my own notes and go from there with trying to practice that and run it? Using 0xwas' notes on the previous page and following the video seems like a good way to get an estimate of a general route to start out on. I'm not sure what the general accepted "best" single-segment route is (or if there is one) but I'm assuming that the video shows what is more or less the best SS route currently.

Either way this all looks really awesome and I really hope I can contribute in some way, if nothing else than by just derping about with runs. I'd love to try seriously running this game and hopefully get real good at it. If you guys have any general tips for a noob please let me know! Cheers.

Rakuen

2012-03-05 05:44:43 pm

Weegee Time

On the one hand, starting with a game with some mature planning behind it gives you an advantage when it comes to planning, since a lot of work has already been done for you. However, there's also the disadvantage that you might get stuck on doing some things a certain way simply because it's how you've seen it done. Remember, if you're planning to seriously run, the goal is to improve the time, not just imitate it. Wink

So with that in mind, I would suggest you start by playing through the game yourself once or twice, if you haven't done so recently. Doing it will get the game fresh in your mind, and you may come up with a few ideas of your own in the process. Then review the planning in the notes and videos. Keep in mind that understanding how a tactic works is entirely different from executing it. You can probably grasp a large part of the run by watching it a single time, but it could take you many attempts to put it into practice. The same mentality applies when you try something you came up with yourself!

Most importantly, don't burn out on it. This is something that should be fun for you. Good luck, and welcome to the world of speedrunning. Smiley

On the one hand, starting with a game with some mature planning behind it gives you an advantage when it comes to planning, since a lot of work has already been done for you.  However, there's also the disadvantage that you might get stuck on doing some things a certain way simply because it's how you've seen it done.  Remember, if you're planning to seriously run, the goal is to [i]improve[/i] the time, not just imitate it. ;)

So with that in mind, I would suggest you start by playing through the game yourself once or twice, if you haven't done so recently.  Doing it will get the game fresh in your mind, and you may come up with a few ideas of your own in the process.  Then review the planning in the notes and videos.  Keep in mind that understanding how a tactic works is entirely different from executing it.  You can probably grasp a large part of the run by watching it a single time, but it could take you many attempts to put it into practice.  The same mentality applies when you try something you came up with yourself!

Most importantly, don't burn out on it.  This is something that should be fun for you.  Good luck, and welcome to the world of speedrunning. :)

qwerty1605

2012-05-05 03:07:30 pm

so umm this happened when I turned on my n64...

http://imgur.com/ySPL7

your_name_here

2012-05-06 08:07:39 am

looks like a debug menu.

See if you can get it to play the credits.

yoshifan

2012-05-06 02:00:25 pm

I believe I see "TLB EXCEPTION" at the top line, so it's probably more like a blue screen of death. >_>

One Lady Owner

2012-05-06 06:10:33 pm

You speedran the game so fast, you broke it! Good job! Cheesy

qwerty1605

2012-05-07 03:50:20 pm

Thanks I had no idea what it was (thinking debug menu), I've seen it once before when my brother was actually playing. I just reset the console and it worked fine after that.