Ori and the Blind Forest

2015-04-06 07:41:43 am

Yeah I forgot about that part, I guess if you count from kuro feather pickup and all the way back to that same location, 5:00 is more likely.

MilsTailsPrower

2015-04-06 07:56:44 am

AdamPrimer : Unfortunately I never managed to clip the ground with a rock , I will give a few more attempts at this spot later.
If that's possible Iceless would still be faster though Tongue

EstonianViking : Thanks for letting me know about the Swamp OoB! Probably useful for 100% then.

joe

2015-04-06 01:34:19 pm

has anyone made/is anyone planning to make an auto split plugin for this game? it would be much appreciated

EstonianViking

2015-04-06 03:20:22 pm

For 100% and All-Cells: I wondered if you could damage boost up there and it turns out you can quite easily. Took me only about 10 minutes to get it down. With perfect execution it only saves 2-3 seconds compared to opening up the wind at the lasers (timed against perfect laser cycle), but if your laser-cycle down there is bad, it will save a few more.

AdamPrimer

2015-04-06 04:41:08 pm

I will point out that All Cells is now an official category on SpeedRun.com! Thanks Vulajin!

Vinyl7th

2015-04-06 04:53:23 pm

Quote from AdamPrimer:

I will point out that All Cells is now an official category on SpeedRun.com! Thanks Vulajin!

Thanks for pointing that out, I went ahead and submitted my run. Thanks Vulajin!

AdamPrimer

Edit history:

AdamPrimer: 2015-04-06 07:28:32 pm

2015-04-06 07:28:17 pm

Wnbeser: Celestics' current sum of best (after his 41:24 run) for Kuro's Feather to Enter Mount Horu is 6:35.07. So the target for your sum of bests would be ~11:35 while getting climb and charge jump.

evilmike

Edit history:

evilmike: 2015-04-06 09:25:47 pm

2015-04-06 09:24:47 pm

One thing to point out about the 100% category.

On speedrun.com, the definition is:

Quote:

Complete the game with 100% map completion, all health cells, all energy cells, and all 26 ability cells.

This leaves out the "world event" icons, which are tracked by the game on the pause menu (see screenshot). It may be a good idea to mention these for 100%, because of the one for horu. This lights up when you activate the heart... which means you can miss it if you skip from R1 to the end of the chase sequence. Technically, you could do this and still get 100% by the current definition, because that area does not count towards map completion (the map is disabled in those areas). But it might be a bit weird to call it 100% and potentially miss something that's tracked right there on the pause screen.

I assume all cells doesn't care about world events, so this is only relevant for the full 100% category.

Vulajin

2015-04-06 11:34:07 pm

Up until now we haven't explicitly required the skills or world events because they are implicitly required by all cells and map completion. However, your point about skipping that world event by doing the OOB is a good one. Generally, we want to keep the category definition as concise as possible, but if we need to specify "all skills" and "all world events" we can do so. Thoughts?

Vinyl7th

2015-04-06 11:38:00 pm

Quote from Vulajin:

Up until now we haven't explicitly required the skills or world events because they are implicitly required by all cells and map completion. However, your point about skipping that world event by doing the OOB is a good one. Generally, we want to keep the category definition as concise as possible, but if we need to specify "all skills" and "all world events" we can do so. Thoughts?

For 100% it might be good to keep the world events. Its something that is tracked at the end of the file, and honestly doesn't really prevent anything route-wise because you have to do all of Mt. Haru for 100% anyways.

For All Cells I think it would be better to let us not get the world events. With the new OOB All Cells can be at least a few minutes faster if we don't have to do L4 and the other OOB. Because All Cells is really the only route that would make good use of the OOB I think it would be interesting to keep it useable because it doesnt conflict with the idea of getting all the powerups.

[quote="Vulajin"]Up until now we haven't explicitly required the skills or world events because they are implicitly required by all cells and map completion. However, your point about skipping that world event by doing the OOB is a good one. Generally, we want to keep the category definition as concise as possible, but if we need to specify "all skills" and "all world events" we can do so. Thoughts?[/quote]

For 100% it might be good to keep the world events. Its something that is tracked at the end of the file, and honestly doesn't really prevent anything route-wise because you have to do all of Mt. Haru for 100% anyways.

For All Cells I think it would be better to let us not get the world events. With the new OOB All Cells can be at least a few minutes faster if we don't have to do L4 and the other OOB. Because All Cells is really the only route that would make good use of the OOB I think it would be interesting to keep it useable because it doesnt conflict with the idea of getting all the powerups.

Vinyl7th

Edit history:

Vinyl7th: 2015-04-07 12:51:21 am

2015-04-07 12:38:45 am

Quote from Vulajin:

Up until now we haven't explicitly required the skills or world events because they are implicitly required by all cells and map completion. However, your point about skipping that world event by doing the OOB is a good one. Generally, we want to keep the category definition as concise as possible, but if we need to specify "all skills" and "all world events" we can do so. Thoughts?

Also, for All Cells, with the new OOB in Swamp, it would be possible to get all of the Cells in the game without ever activating the wind in Forlorn. This could save even more time because we could just get the health and leave without doing the escape or owl sequence. This is pretty significant as well, and I really think we should consider not requiring world events for the All Cells category.

EDIT: Still have to do forlorn if hitboxes get patched

Cluck

2015-04-07 01:40:15 am

apparently ori can run in borderless windowed mode, super nice for me, donno if anyone else cares

Pret_: in steam library right click ori > properties > set launch options > type "-popupwindow" for borderless (in case anyone else is confused)

Evooki

2015-04-07 01:54:32 am

I don't think you would gain any time going all the way up mount horu again and skipping that part of the chase. But better include it. There is no reason not to include world events.

EstonianViking

2015-04-07 02:37:25 am

Quote from Vinyl7th:

EDIT: Still have to do forlorn if hitboxes get patched

If the current hitbox stays the same, you can still do the Swamp OOB with the full hitbox, it's just a bit harder to get it.

Quote from Cluck:

apparently ori can run in borderless windowed mode, super nice for me, donno if anyone else cares

Does this mean the game won't crash anymore if I alt-tab ? This will be super useful for me.

Vinyl7th

2015-04-07 03:15:22 am

Quote from EstonianViking:

Quote from Vinyl7th:

EDIT: Still have to do forlorn if hitboxes get patched

If the current hitbox stays the same, you can still do the Swamp OOB with the full hitbox, it's just a bit harder to get it.

Quote from Cluck:

apparently ori can run in borderless windowed mode, super nice for me, donno if anyone else cares

Does this mean the game won't crash anymore if I alt-tab ? This will be super useful for me.

Could you post a video of the setup? I tried it for a bit and couldnt get into it

Evooki

Edit history:

Evooki: 2015-04-07 04:14:39 am

2015-04-07 03:56:04 am

Oh btw. if you have problems with getting out of L4. Here is an energy cell which loses like no time at all and you can use it for the saveglitch.
http://www.twitch.tv/evooki/c/6491646

Gyoo

2015-04-07 04:06:34 am

The cake is a lie

Yup, I take this one already so I don't have to do the clutch save Smiley

EstonianViking

Edit history:

EstonianViking: 2015-04-07 05:04:00 am

EstonianViking: 2015-04-07 04:55:05 am

EstonianViking: 2015-04-07 04:50:39 am

2015-04-07 04:49:29 am

Quote from Vinyl7th:

Could you post a video of the setup? I tried it for a bit and couldnt get into it

EDIT: Found a more consistant setup:

Quote from Evooki:

Oh btw. if you have problems with getting out of L4. Here is an energy cell which loses like no time at all and you can use it for the saveglitch.

That's an Ability cell, not an energy cell Tongue

On a sidenote, I did my first practice run of All-Cells and it was pretty terrible with a ton of timelosses, but I got a 1:11:07. Not sure if I'm gonna bother to upload it, probably do a better run since I know the route better now. But the R1 skip straight into Horu chase is so badass to do Tongue

AdamPrimer

Edit history:

AdamPrimer: 2015-04-07 05:45:13 am

2015-04-07 05:42:52 am

Here's my take given about an hour or two with the Swamp OOB:

This OOB is useful in the All Cells and 100% speed running routes for Ori and the Blind Forest.

To set up:
1. Stand to the right as far as you can before Ori is tilting over the edge.
2. Charge jump up and hold climb
3. Climb into the nook as high as you can go.
4. Flick the control stick down and immediately let go to move Ori a pixel or two down.
5. Aim the stick to the left and up, you want the charge jump line to be hidden in the tree.
6. Charge jump.

The window of position is quite large (-44.0 to -44.2) a bigger window than the R1 Tree clip allows, but the angle seems sporadic. I can be in the same coordinates on-screen, with basically the exact same angle, and the skip fails, but then a way larger one can work. Fortunately, unless you screw up you can try a bunch of times quite quickly and it seems you can get through in only a few attempts most of the time.

I can't seem to quite work out any pattern of height and angle that is consistent. I took screenshots of 13 successful attempts with my position and controller stick angle printed on the screen for people to look at.

Screenshots of successes: http://imgur.com/a/oNhnL

Here's my take given about an hour or two with the Swamp OOB:

This OOB is useful in the All Cells and 100% speed running routes for Ori and the Blind Forest.

To set up:
1. Stand to the right as far as you can before Ori is tilting over the edge.
2. Charge jump up and hold climb
3. Climb into the nook as high as you can go.
4. Flick the control stick down and immediately let go to move Ori a pixel or two down.
5. Aim the stick to the left and up, you want the charge jump line to be hidden in the tree.
6. Charge jump.

The window of position is quite large (-44.0 to -44.2) a bigger window than the R1 Tree clip allows, but the angle seems sporadic. I can be in the same coordinates on-screen, with basically the exact same angle, and the skip fails, but then a way larger one can work. Fortunately, unless you screw up you can try a bunch of times quite quickly and it seems you can get through in only a few attempts most of the time.

I can't seem to quite work out any pattern of height and angle that is consistent. I took screenshots of 13 successful attempts with my position and controller stick angle printed on the screen for people to look at.

Screenshots of successes: http://imgur.com/a/oNhnL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqWQFA_bmmo

AdamPrimer

2015-04-07 06:07:56 am

As for 100%, I agree that all World Events makes sense. Also my OOB would be useless anyway, the time to get back to the top is probably more than the time you save in the escape as mentioned by Evooki.

I think All Cells makes sense to literally just be "All Cells" it also helps differentiate the category from 100%. If All Cells is just 100% minus map exploration, it's 1. poorly named, 2. harder to justify as a separate category imo. As a result of the reduced requirements, All Cells can make use of a number of OOBs not seen in other routes, which I feel makes it both different and interesting enough to justify the category.

PS: I'm biased as hell, because I'd like to see my R1 skip in at least one category Smiley

Evooki

2015-04-07 06:11:59 am

Quote from AdamPrimer:

PS: I'm biased as hell, because I'd like to see my R1 skip in at least one category Smiley

I would be too its a cool trick :3

Vinyl7th

2015-04-07 07:36:10 am

So, from what Ive seen so far of the Swamp and R1 OOBs is that they are somewhat inconsistent. As Adam has said, even with the same Coordinates and angle, it can be very random when you get a clip or not.

Its hard to imagine what kind of randomness could occur in this setting, and the following is all completely theorized, but if anyone has a better way of looking into it it might be an idea worth looking at.

Unity's physics engine has some known issues if you don't use your functions correctly. At this point we have all seen some odd stuff with 'orphaned' objects, like the Duplicated frogs in Sorrow Pass. These are little things, probably based on how the game loads and unloads areas.

I have worked with Unity, I am in the process of writing my own game, and I know the very basics of what is going on, and I think I may have an idea why the clips are inconsistent.

Unity runs two kinds of Update functions. It calls FixedUpdate() which runs on a timescale, no matter what. It will run every .01 seconds, or .02 seconds, or whatever you tell it to. This is good to use for physics because its constant. It also runs an Update() function. Which gets called whenever the engine feels that the call can be made and not overload it/ execute it properly. Because of this, you get updates on an erratic pattern, which is okay for some things that dont effect physics. An update timescale in Unity might look like this, with F being fixed update and U being normal update

----|----1----|----2----|----3----|----4----|----5----|----6----|----7----|----8----|----9----|----10
f f f f f f f f f f f f f f f f f f f f
u u u u u u u u u u u u u u u u u u u u u u u u u

Because of this, there are sometimes greater gaps in time between updates and FixedUpdates. If any aspect of Ori's movement takes place in an update call, like a collision check, or some kind of application of velocity, it could make it so clipping through certain walls will only occur if there is a large enough gap between the update or fixed update just before Ori moves through the wall, and the update or fixed update that checks for collision with the wall. Given a large enough timescale, Ori's position could clip past where it is supposed to be able to move in one update call, potentially getting OOB.

Now, this is all conjecture, but it would make sense why the clips can be so inconsistent. I dont know how to get into the source code for Ori, or I would look at the physics myself, but I think that the engine in very nuanced, and given that it is in Unity there are a lot of things going on with the physics. If we could actually prove that this glitch is based on timeframe differences, then we may be able to manipulate it.

If not, then I just dont know man. This game makes me sad when my runs die ;~;

So, from what Ive seen so far of the Swamp and R1 OOBs is that they are somewhat inconsistent. As Adam has said, even with the same Coordinates and angle, it can be very random when you get a clip or not.

Its hard to imagine what kind of randomness could occur in this setting, and the following is all completely theorized, but if anyone has a better way of looking into it it might be an idea worth looking at.

Unity's physics engine has some known issues if you don't use your functions correctly. At this point we have all seen some odd stuff with 'orphaned' objects, like the Duplicated frogs in Sorrow Pass. These are little things, probably based on how the game loads and unloads areas.

I have worked with Unity, I am in the process of writing my own game, and I know the very basics of what is going on, and I think I may have an idea why the clips are inconsistent.

Unity runs two kinds of Update functions. It calls FixedUpdate() which runs on a timescale, no matter what. It will run every .01 seconds, or .02 seconds, or whatever you tell it to. This is good to use for physics because its constant. It also runs an Update() function. Which gets called whenever the engine feels that the call can be made and not overload it/ execute it properly. Because of this, you get updates on an erratic pattern, which is okay for some things that dont effect physics. An update timescale in Unity might look like this, with F being fixed update and U being normal update

----|----1----|----2----|----3----|----4----|----5----|----6----|----7----|----8----|----9----|----10
     f      f     f      f     f     f       f      f     f      f     f      f      f      f     f     f      f      f     f      f
     u    u    u  u     u    u   u     u    u   u    u   u   u   u   u   u   u   u   u   u   u   u   u   u   u

Because of this, there are sometimes greater gaps in time between updates and FixedUpdates. If any aspect of Ori's movement takes place in an update call, like a collision check, or some kind of application of velocity, it could make it so clipping through certain walls will only occur if there is a large enough gap between the update or fixed update just before Ori moves through the wall, and the update or fixed update that checks for collision with the wall. Given a large enough timescale, Ori's position could clip past where it is supposed to be able to move in one update call, potentially getting OOB.

Now, this is all conjecture, but it would make sense why the clips can be so inconsistent. I dont know how to get into the source code for Ori, or I would look at the physics myself, but I think that the engine in very nuanced, and given that it is in Unity there are a lot of things going on with the physics. If we could actually prove that this glitch is based on timeframe differences, then we may be able to manipulate it.

If not, then I just dont know man. This game makes me sad when my runs die ;~;

Wnbeser

Edit history:

Wnbeser: 2015-04-07 11:37:07 am

Wnbeser: 2015-04-07 11:36:56 am

Wnbeser: 2015-04-07 11:31:09 am

Wnbeser: 2015-04-07 11:15:11 am

2015-04-07 11:04:17 am

So i think i can say this now that if you can consistently do misty forest
in 4:50 and the new horu oob in 10 second its pretty much equal to the current route time wise. Pretty cool to have this alternative route.

But if the times get optimized enough you really have to get "lucky" and get the good dice roll AKA R3 in like 2 tries to get WR time so this will not be relevant later in competitive any%.
Anyways ill record a 4:50 misty run so AC /100% runners can see all the little tricks i use. Also to point out 4:50 isnt even perfect my SOB of 5 splits is 4:44 and sub 4:40 should be possible.

EDIT: Make misty forest runs new category Valajin pls !! Kappa

Evooki

2015-04-07 01:21:12 pm

Misty woods run would be cool. We could call it all abilities. Hopefully Vulajin is not pissed by all the requests for new categories :3

MilsTailsPrower

2015-04-07 02:05:12 pm

I found a way to clip the ground with a rock ... I mean two rocks Grin

Since there are only two rocks you can use to bash *Correct if I am wrong here.*

Useless so far like always! The other spot is just after the walljump ability , but that one respawns you in no time.