Ori and the Blind Forest

2015-04-06 12:17:50 am

The cake is a lie

So, maybe it was known already, but I think it's a small useful trick for All Cells category (if it's ever run lol)
I made the video after building the bridge by placing the orb into the altar, but you're supposed to do the trick before obvisouly. Just speed glide with the help of the spider shot, you can clear the gap easily and continue your way. It saves the time of placing the orb in the altar + the following cutscene, which is an overall of about 30 seconds iirc.

SerDilly

Edit history:

SerDilly: 2015-04-06 12:22:16 am

2015-04-06 12:21:17 am

Quote from EstonianViking:

This is actually very useful for 100% because you can OOB all the way to the right side and then grab everything else/explore the map on the way back, causing less backtracking.

But you can't get Stomp because you don't have Bash, unless you're talking about some other point in the run. Like after you get Charge. I suppose it would save like 30 sec

SerDilly

Edit history:

SerDilly: 2015-04-06 12:34:28 am

2015-04-06 12:31:02 am

Gyoo, at this point, all cells goes to sorrow pass first, so you have Charge Jump and don't need to bash off anything to skip that cutscene. You can just jump up from that platform below. but that's good thinking, without charge jump we'd need to watch it. edit: er, without charge jump we'd need to do what you just did.

Gyoo

2015-04-06 12:37:33 am

The cake is a lie

I wasn't aware of the route you're taking, but it makes sense to get all abilities as quickly as possible. And yeah, I tried my best to do the trick without the shot bash but you can't make the gap even with triple jump ^^

SerDilly

Edit history:

SerDilly: 2015-04-06 12:40:20 am

2015-04-06 12:40:05 am

You can't jump from anywhere in the room to get up there (I think). You can Charge Jump, though, and now I know you can Bash and sweet-glide across. woo

AdamPrimer

Edit history:

AdamPrimer: 2015-04-06 02:28:24 am

2015-04-06 01:37:37 am

This minor time-saver was found by DevilSquirrel, the second method here was determined by Andy. It saves ~6 seconds, and is pretty risky, will require quite a bit of practice I presume for such a small time-save.

This trick is fairly precise, I have the most luck getting as close to the trigger as much as possible (like 1px close), and then bashing off the projectile when it's close enough to me that I don't move forward by grabbing it, but not too close as seen in the first video.

Method 1: Frog Projectile

Method 2: Frog Itself

Evooki

2015-04-06 02:09:48 am

Question. Could you save time by getting chargejump before climb in any way? At the moemnt it's impossible but after the patch we can get chargejump without loosing the abilitie to jump. So maybe worth looking into don't know.

Vinyl7th

2015-04-06 02:13:33 am

Quote from Evooki:

Question. Could you save time by getting chargejump before climb in any way? At the moemnt it's impossible but after the patch we can get chargejump without loosing the abilitie to jump. So maybe worth looking into don't know.

Why would we be able to get charge jump after the patch? Im not really too familiar with what they are patching

Evooki

2015-04-06 02:19:54 am

Quote from Vinyl7th:

Quote from Evooki:

Question. Could you save time by getting chargejump before climb in any way? At the moemnt it's impossible but after the patch we can get chargejump without loosing the abilitie to jump. So maybe worth looking into don't know.

Why would we be able to get charge jump after the patch? Im not really too familiar with what they are patching

It was talked about a few times already. Koko (who was a playtester for ori) will inform us about the details once they are final. One thing that the devs are looking into to patch is that you lose your abilty to jump completely if you pick up the chargejump ability before climb. You can get chargejump easily by doing sorrow bash.

AdamPrimer

2015-04-06 02:25:58 am

Evooki, we've considered it, but I don't think you'd even save enough time to make up for getting Charge Jump first, let alone enough to make Climb fast enough for the trick to be worthwhile.

The only other avenue I can think of is if there are Climb + CJump tricks that would help between sunstone and horu entrance that remain to be discovered. If having those somehow made that journey faster, perhaps we'd save time that way.

AdamPrimer

2015-04-06 03:53:58 am

MilsTailsPrower this is mostly for you to consider since you're the expert on weird OOBs.

[IDEA ONLY, REQUIRES DEBUG MODE] I'm trying to do Any% without Iceless, and the only place I can think of an OOB to work is the spike pit near the rock (seen in video). If you jam the rock in, then teleport into the rock, you can aim to the left and clip rather than simply popping out under the rock. Nothing I've tried has let me get under the rock in a legitimate way. I've tried getting the rock to teeter, or to get lots of health then push it up and have it fall on me.

I'm hoping maybe someone else has an idea for maybe making this idea work. The left side of the spike pit is ripe for an OOB if we can get a slight clip.

EstonianViking

2015-04-06 04:25:02 am

Quote from SerDilly:

But you can't get Stomp because you don't have Bash, unless you're talking about some other point in the run. Like after you get Charge. I suppose it would save like 30 sec

Yes this is the end part of the run where you need to backtrack to the Swamp for an Energy Cell, and in the case of 100%, map exploration that requires charge jump to enter.

Quote from AdamPrimer:

Nothing I've tried has let me get under the rock in a legitimate way. I've tried getting the rock to teeter, or to get lots of health then push it up and have it fall on me.

I did get an accidental out-of-bounds with a rock in Mount Horu so it's definitely possible to use the rock, but it required it falling on me from a very high ledge, which I don't think you can achieve in that location.

Wnbeser

2015-04-06 04:32:06 am

Quote from AdamPrimer:

So I did some timing for Any%:

Celestics in his 42:11 run gets from the entrance of Horu to the end of the R1 cutscene in 1:16. Assuming you get the OOB first try, I'd say it takes 15-20 seconds. So let's say 1:30-1:45 to do my OOB, from Horu entrance to being in the fish part of the escape.

In the same run, Celestics goes from first control in Mount Horu entrance, to the same part of the fish escape in 6:30.

Therefore, if we can get climb and charge jump in less than 5 minutes. It's a time-save.

Looking at Misty Woods, people never really optimised it that well, but it looks like 5 minutes might be as fast as it gets without new glitches. If someone thinks they can way optimise this farther down than that, then MAYBE this OOB would be better. It certainly has benefits like: no lava, no potential soft locks, much swag.

I spent a decent chunk of time in Misty Woods trying to find new skips, but even Keystone Duping is of little use, as the reconfiguration of the area is tied to the picking up of these keystones it seems. I've yet to have much luck.

Funny thing, if you debug teleport into a certain wall in Misty Woods, you end up in the last room of Forlorn Ruins. Pretty sure this is useless for all categories, I also don't think there is a legitimate way to clip into that wall. Thought I'd mention it anyway. Maybe for like "All Dungeons" or something it'd be worth looking into? Not my focus at the moment.

[EDIT] I don't know how save warping works, but does anyone know if we might be able to save warp somewhere after getting climb? I have no idea where it'd warp us to, but I'm running out of ideas to make Climb faster to obtain. OOBs are nigh useless except maybe minor time savers because of how the triggers work.

You are not here even calculating the time it actually takes charge jump. With climb it takes 46 secs from first wall destruction to the 2nd wall destruction. Without getting charge jump it takes atleast 25 secs to get from first wall destruction to 2nd.
This means additional 20 secs needs to be saved for it to be worth.

[quote="AdamPrimer"]So I did some timing for Any%:

Celestics in his 42:11 run gets from the entrance of Horu to the end of the R1 cutscene in 1:16. Assuming you get the OOB first try, I'd say it takes 15-20 seconds. So let's say 1:30-1:45 to do my OOB, from Horu entrance to being in the fish part of the escape.

In the same run, Celestics goes from first control in Mount Horu entrance, to the same part of the fish escape in 6:30.

Therefore, if we can get climb and charge jump in less than 5 minutes. It's a time-save.

Looking at Misty Woods, people never really optimised it that well, but it looks like 5 minutes might be as fast as it gets without new glitches. If someone thinks they can way optimise this farther down than that, then MAYBE this OOB would be better. It certainly has benefits like: no lava, no potential soft locks, much swag.

I spent a decent chunk of time in Misty Woods trying to find new skips, but even Keystone Duping is of little use, as the reconfiguration of the area is tied to the picking up of these keystones it seems. I've yet to have much luck.

Funny thing, if you debug teleport into a certain wall in Misty Woods, you end up in the last room of Forlorn Ruins. Pretty sure this is useless for all categories, I also don't think there is a legitimate way to clip into that wall. Thought I'd mention it anyway. Maybe for like "All Dungeons" or something it'd be worth looking into? Not my focus at the moment.

[EDIT] I don't know how save warping works, but does anyone know if we might be able to save warp somewhere after getting climb? I have no idea where it'd warp us to, but I'm running out of ideas to make Climb faster to obtain. OOBs are nigh useless except maybe minor time savers because of how the triggers work.[/quote]

You are not here even calculating the time it actually takes charge jump. With climb it takes 46 secs from first wall destruction to the 2nd wall destruction. Without getting charge jump it takes atleast 25 secs to get from first wall destruction to 2nd.
This means additional 20 secs needs to be saved for it to be worth.

AdamPrimer

2015-04-06 04:38:18 am

Wnbeser, I know, but if we can't even get Climb within the allotted time, then who cares how long Charge Jump takes?

EstonianViking, with Debug Mode I've managed to get the rock off the other side of that platform, but I couldn't manage to get it to land on me in any way that would push me through. I didn't try too much though because I have no plan to get the rock like that legitimately in the first place.

EstonianViking

2015-04-06 04:39:59 am

By the way, I got off my ass and got a savefile without the crouch-glitch to the same place at the Swamp OOB and I got it 2nd try lol. So you CAN do it without it because I can jump out of the water just fine.

AdamPrimer

2015-04-06 04:41:26 am

Swamp OOB?

We were talking about the skip in R1 of Mount Horu? And I found a full-hitbox version of the skip today, it's just not as easy.

EstonianViking

Edit history:

EstonianViking: 2015-04-06 04:45:24 am

EstonianViking: 2015-04-06 04:43:15 am

2015-04-06 04:42:28 am

Yeah it was on the previous pages. What your attempts with R1 and this, it means that you don't really need a smaller hitbox to perform most, if not all of the same OOBs. Although they are definitely much much harder (precise angles and positions).

AdamPrimer

2015-04-06 05:29:58 am

Update on the Misty Woods hunt. 100 units below the Climb teaching tree, is the Kuro's nest cutscene. I have no idea how we'd ever get that far down through the killzone but it's something to keep in mind, perhaps one day when someone actually goes back through this thread to see all the stuff we've forgotten we'd found.

Wnbeser

2015-04-06 05:46:58 am

Quote from AdamPrimer:

Wnbeser, I know, but if we can't even get Climb within the allotted time, then who cares how long Charge Jump takes?

EstonianViking, with Debug Mode I've managed to get the rock off the other side of that platform, but I couldn't manage to get it to land on me in any way that would push me through. I didn't try too much though because I have no plan to get the rock like that legitimately in the first place.

.
Adam i remember timing misty woods earlier based on Ikewolf's old runs and misty woods actually took like only 4:30 IIRC i can't retime it now (on mobile) but it actually could be barely worth it..This would get rid off frog juggle and trade L4 for new apparently really difficult OOB

AdamPrimer

2015-04-06 05:48:22 am

Both Onin and DevilSquirrel said the OOB is actually quite easy (turns out, I'm just bad). I did some timing today on WWR's and one of Ikewolf's old runs, not sure where you got 4:30 from, but if true I'd love to see the run that did it so fast!

EstonianViking

2015-04-06 05:48:24 am

Quote from AdamPrimer:

Update on the Misty Woods hunt. 100 units below the Climb teaching tree, is the Kuro's nest cutscene. I have no idea how we'd ever get that far down through the killzone but it's something to keep in mind, perhaps one day when someone actually goes back through this thread to see all the stuff we've forgotten we'd found.

I do remember someone posting some kind of glitch they encountered that they fell through Misty Woods and ended up in Forlorn Ruins, somehow avoiding the kill-zones ?

AdamPrimer

2015-04-06 05:50:27 am

Quote from EstonianViking:

Quote from AdamPrimer:

Update on the Misty Woods hunt. 100 units below the Climb teaching tree, is the Kuro's nest cutscene. I have no idea how we'd ever get that far down through the killzone but it's something to keep in mind, perhaps one day when someone actually goes back through this thread to see all the stuff we've forgotten we'd found.

I do remember someone posting some kind of glitch they encountered that they fell through Misty Woods and ended up in Forlorn Ruins, somehow avoiding the kill-zones ?

I think I recall it, it was probably one of those "I fell through the floor" bugs that are both likely to be patched, and not really reproducible, the game just kinda seems to give up sometimes (confirmed by devs in IRC).

AdamPrimer

Edit history:

AdamPrimer: 2015-04-06 06:29:58 am

AdamPrimer: 2015-04-06 06:29:48 am

AdamPrimer: 2015-04-06 06:29:44 am

AdamPrimer: 2015-04-06 06:29:43 am

AdamPrimer: 2015-04-06 06:05:39 am

2015-04-06 05:58:56 am

Comparing Ikewolf's best pre-climbless run to the current WR shows that Climb + Charge Jump add about 6 and a half minutes, though, who knows how much further the 9 minutes 40 seconds could be optimized given the general amount of improvement we've seen since the 52:55 was performed.

Ikewolf 52:55 Kuro to Sunstone: 32:28 -> 42:07 (9 minutes 39 seconds)
Celestics 42:11 Kuro to Sunstone: 27:16 -> 30:14 (2 minutes, 58 seconds)

Difference: 6 minutes 49 seconds.

Ikewolf 52:55 Kuro to Sunstone: 32:28 -> 42:07 (9 minutes 39 seconds)
Ikewolf 51:21 Kuro to Sunstone: 33:53 -> 37:23 (3 minutes, 30 seconds)

Difference: 6 minutes, 9 seconds. (Though it's 5:41 if you remove the 28 seconds he gets stuck in the wall trying to get up to the Sunstone)

I compare these two runs because they take into account Ikewolf's skill at the time as they are two runs close together, it's hard to compare an old run to the latest practiced movement of a WR.

EstonianViking

2015-04-06 06:06:31 am

To get a 4:30 Misty Woods or better you would need to do all the bash-glides with optimal movement, frog bash skip 1st try (although you lose only 4-5 seconds by going the safe and consistant way), have a fast boss fight - pretty much have a close to perfect Misty Woods, but it's definitely doable and won't be that hard IMO.

AdamPrimer

Edit history:

AdamPrimer: 2015-04-06 06:26:16 am

2015-04-06 06:09:16 am

You basically need to do Kuro's Feather to Sunstone in ~8 minutes. I'm hoping to get DevilSquirrel to time him going from the entrance to the escape using my glitch because he can get it first try and also not take 3 minutes to get to R1... I'm going to say my trick saves 5:00-5:15, so a Kuro's Feather to Sunstone in 8:00 or lower should be a timesaver.

[EDIT] I should mention, my timing of "Misty Woods" is from Kuro's Feather, back to where you get Kuro's feather, because that's the time of the tangent from the current route. It might be possible the "4:30" you're timing is just Misty Woods itself rather than the full tangent?