KotOR speedrun in just over 2 hours -- Knights of the Old Republic Done Quick

Edit history:

AlecK47: 2015-05-28 10:49:29 am

2015-05-28 10:45:54 am

First, a couple notes: sparing Yuthura on Korriban cancels out the 2x DSP you get from one of the quests in the Academy, so as long as you enter LS aligned and don't do both of them, you're good; also, the Republic soldiers by Zelka actually only give one increment of LSP, but fortunately that is irrelevant.

The Republic soldiers take about 15 seconds, assuming you're visiting Zelka anyway (about 20 seconds on its own), though if the door takes a while to bash in, it can take a bit longer. Also, if you wanted a second weapon to help with the door, your best option would be to equip long and short swords when you equip armor on the Endar Spire.

Getting LSP by giving the Undercity beggars 20 credits amusingly does not cost any real time; both ways take about 15 seconds. However, the several seconds saving and loading aren't timed, so it's still a bit of a loss. That said, if you messed up selling things and didn't have enough to pay the bullied merchant or just want more LSP to be safe, this is the place to get it, because it means fewer quicksaves and therefore less memory leakage.

Saving the Duros in the Sith Base is also really fast. It can be done while your AI-controlled party kills the two droids in the room for a comparable time loss to the one above.

So on to Korriban...

The doubting Sith takes about 10 seconds, and interrogating the Mandalorian about 40. A force jump or two could be possible on the interrogator after returning from outside, but it's still far slower. Unfortunately, it's necessary to leave the Academy in order to get enough prestige, because the DSP from both quests in the Academy could be made irrelevant by getting the two extra LSP on Taris, and going outside means a lot of running. So that basically means the fastest prestige route is (in no particular order):
1: Sith Code
2: Doubting Sith
3: Tattling on Yuthura
4: Holocron
5: Admitting you killed Lashowe

One other note I'd like to make is that the trigger to get the [Persuade/Lie] option with Yuthura is pretty weird. I think it might be that you have to be LS at a certain point before activating the ability to talk to her about getting into the Academy, but I honestly don't know. Just now, I did a test where I had plenty of Persuade ranks but was one shy of LS when I got to that point, then got LS by running back towards the Ebon Hawk and bribing the aggressive Sith with drinks, and only got the regular [Persuade] option. Generally it shows up when you follow the route, but unless one of us can figure that one out for sure I'm inclined to take the safety LSP in Taris Undercity.

Finally, based on my experience with the Persuade checks I'm pretty sure that Yuthura and Lashowe (or at least the second one with her) are both "Hard" checks. I would occasionally fail both of them at level 7 with my 10-11 Persuade RPGLB build (10/11 and 11/12 ratios, so only hard checks could fail, according to the mechanics stated). With Scout, the negative Charisma modifier will be canceled out by taking Empathy, so putting the maximum number of ranks in Persuade would give about a 75% success rate (9/11 or 10/12 ratio) - though because just how things are handled beyond the ratio isn't stated, I can't give a precise number. On the other hand, the 7 ranks you could afford if you maxed Treat Injury would yield a ratio that would give closer to a 25% success rate, which again seems about right based on my testing.

But then it gets weird. Either Valor has no effect, or FLU messes things up, because even with Valor my RPGLB build could fail - and Valor would up the ratio to 1/1 for both checks. I have some suspicion that it goes away after affecting one check, assuming it has an effect, but I tested with Yuthura and with her there only is one check. Much like chain levels in FF12, I think the known/stated mechanics may not be quite how things work...

tl;dr Persuade is weird, and it's worth maxing it going into Korriban

First, a couple notes: sparing Yuthura on Korriban cancels out the 2x DSP you get from one of the quests in the Academy, so as long as you enter LS aligned and don't do both of them, you're good; also, the Republic soldiers by Zelka actually only give one increment of LSP, but fortunately that is irrelevant.

The Republic soldiers take about 15 seconds, assuming you're visiting Zelka anyway (about 20 seconds on its own), though if the door takes a while to bash in, it can take a bit longer.  Also, if you wanted a second weapon to help with the door, your best option would be to equip long and short swords when you equip armor on the Endar Spire.

Getting LSP by giving the Undercity beggars 20 credits amusingly does not cost any real time; both ways take about 15 seconds.  However, the several seconds saving and loading aren't timed, so it's still a bit of a loss.  That said, if you messed up selling things and didn't have enough to pay the bullied merchant or just want more LSP to be safe, this is the place to get it, because it means fewer quicksaves and therefore less memory leakage.

Saving the Duros in the Sith Base is also really fast.  It can be done while your AI-controlled party kills the two droids in the room for a comparable time loss to the one above.

So on to Korriban...

The doubting Sith takes about 10 seconds, and interrogating the Mandalorian about 40.  A force jump or two could be possible on the interrogator after returning from outside, but it's still far slower.  Unfortunately, it's necessary to leave the Academy in order to get enough prestige, because the DSP from both quests in the Academy could be made irrelevant by getting the two extra LSP on Taris, and going outside means a lot of running.  So that basically means the fastest prestige route is (in no particular order):
1: Sith Code
2: Doubting Sith
3: Tattling on Yuthura
4: Holocron
5: Admitting you killed Lashowe

One other note I'd like to make is that the trigger to get the [Persuade/Lie] option with Yuthura is pretty weird.  I think it might be that you have to be LS at a certain point before activating the ability to talk to her about getting into the Academy, but I honestly don't know.  Just now, I did a test where I had plenty of Persuade ranks but was one shy of LS when I got to that point, then got LS by running back towards the Ebon Hawk and bribing the aggressive Sith with drinks, and only got the regular [Persuade] option.  Generally it shows up when you follow the route, but unless one of us can figure that one out for sure I'm inclined to take the safety LSP in Taris Undercity.

Finally, based on my experience with the Persuade checks I'm pretty sure that Yuthura and Lashowe (or at least the second one with her) are both "Hard" checks.  I would occasionally fail both of them at level 7 with my 10-11 Persuade RPGLB build (10/11 and 11/12 ratios, so only hard checks could fail, according to the mechanics stated).  With Scout, the negative Charisma modifier will be canceled out by taking Empathy, so putting the maximum number of ranks in Persuade would give about a 75% success rate (9/11 or 10/12 ratio) - though because just how things are handled beyond the ratio isn't stated, I can't give a precise number.  On the other hand, the 7 ranks you could afford if you maxed Treat Injury would yield a ratio that would give closer to a 25% success rate, which again seems about right based on my testing.

But then it gets weird.  Either Valor has no effect, or FLU messes things up, because even with Valor my RPGLB build could fail - and Valor would up the ratio to 1/1 for both checks.  I have some suspicion that it goes away after affecting one check, assuming it has an effect, but I tested with Yuthura and with her there only [i]is[/i] one check.  Much like chain levels in FF12, I think the known/stated mechanics may not be quite how things work...

tl;dr Persuade is weird, and it's worth maxing it going into Korriban

indykenobi

Edit history:

indykenobi: 2015-05-28 01:52:38 pm

2015-05-28 01:45:52 pm

You call this archaeology?

If I'm reading the table right, and assuming Yuthura and Lashowe are both Hard checks, if we're level 6 at those checks we need 9 total Persuade for a 75% chance of success. If Manaan is done before Korriban, we won't be level 6 anymore... but would it be worth delaying those level ups to increase our chance of success to Persuade? We could then level up immediately after Persuading Yuthura/Lashowe/Kel Algwinn, and it might save a point in Persuade.

The Valor thing seems weird. Possibly the ratio has to be strictly greater than 1 to guarantee the 100% success? So adding the +1 Persuade from Valor to your 10/11 or 11/12 ratio would make it equal 1 but not exceed it. That's my best guess based on the stated mechanics. Edit: That seems to be supported by the table, which says you need 12 Persuade to succeed 100% at level 6 (ratio = 12/11 > 1).

A question: What do we pick for starting skills as a Scout? Is it just 4 in TI, to save the rest for Jedi level Persuade? Or do we also put 2 in Persuade then?

If I'm reading the table right, and assuming Yuthura and Lashowe are both Hard checks, if we're level 6 at those checks we need 9 total Persuade for a 75% chance of success.  If Manaan is done before Korriban, we won't be level 6 anymore... but would it be worth delaying those level ups to increase our chance of success to Persuade?  We could then level up immediately after Persuading Yuthura/Lashowe/Kel Algwinn, and it might save a point in Persuade.

The Valor thing seems weird.  Possibly the ratio has to be strictly greater than 1 to guarantee the 100% success?  So adding the +1 Persuade from Valor to your 10/11 or 11/12 ratio would make it equal 1 but not exceed it.  That's my best guess based on the stated mechanics.  Edit: That seems to be supported by the table, which says you need 12 Persuade to succeed 100% at level 6 (ratio = 12/11 > 1).

A question: What do we pick for starting skills as a Scout? Is it just 4 in TI, to save the rest for Jedi level Persuade?  Or do we also put 2 in Persuade then?

glasnonck

Edit history:

glasnonck: 2015-05-28 05:53:56 pm

2015-05-28 05:44:26 pm

If we ignored the alignment constraints, would it be faster to do Ajunta Pall's Tomb or Renegade Sith along with all of the interior quests? You said that each of the three outside quests (Lashowe, Ajunta Pall, Renegade Sith) took 2 minutes. Was that timed from the exit of the Sith Academy?

According to StrategyWiki: Zelka's door gives +2, the Ithorian gives +2 and then +4 for giving him a medpac, the Outcast Beggars give +2, and the Duros gives +2. I'd like to make sure those numbers are right, since Alec says the beggars only give +1. I'm fairly certain that each alignment shift will only push you 1 in either direction. If we could use that to cut out some running around in the Valley of the Sith, it might be worth it in the long run.

I thought you could unlock Zelka's door, and since I plan to continue using the MC to open the door on the Endar Spire I guess that will make that time loss consistent. You can also talk to Zelka to reveal the hidden soldiers if you have enough persuade. I don't know what ranking is required, though. I would guess it would be an easy difficulty persuasion.

Also on the topic of starting skill points, if we put one point (2 for scouts and soldiers) into sneak we will start with a stealth belt that we could sell for a little money. (Edit: 40 credits, so not really worth the 2 skill points) I think my suggestion with the current Attribute set would be 1 Security and 2 or 4 TI. Then save enough to get the appropriate persuade on the first Jedi level. I guess saving all of them would be okay until we hammer out a specific amount of persuade for Korriban.

If we ignored the alignment constraints, would it be faster to do Ajunta Pall's Tomb or Renegade Sith along with all of the interior quests? You said that each of the three outside quests (Lashowe, Ajunta Pall, Renegade Sith) took 2 minutes. Was that timed from the exit of the Sith Academy?

According to StrategyWiki: Zelka's door gives +2, the Ithorian gives +2 and then +4 for giving him a medpac, the Outcast Beggars give +2, and the Duros gives +2. I'd like to make sure those numbers are right, since Alec says the beggars only give +1. I'm fairly certain that each alignment shift will only push you 1 in either direction. If we could use that to cut out some running around in the Valley of the Sith, it might be worth it in the long run.

I thought you could unlock Zelka's door, and since I plan to continue using the MC to open the door on the Endar Spire I guess that will make that time loss consistent. You can also talk to Zelka to reveal the hidden soldiers if you have enough persuade. I don't know what ranking is required, though. I would guess it would be an easy difficulty persuasion.

Also on the topic of starting skill points, if we put one point (2 for scouts and soldiers) into sneak we will start with a stealth belt that we could sell for a little money. (Edit: 40 credits, so not really worth the 2 skill points) I think my suggestion with the current Attribute set would be 1 Security and 2 or 4 TI. Then save enough to get the appropriate persuade on the first Jedi level. I guess saving all of them would be okay until we hammer out a specific amount of persuade for Korriban.

indykenobi

Edit history:

indykenobi: 2015-05-28 08:58:04 pm

indykenobi: 2015-05-28 08:57:13 pm

2015-05-28 05:48:03 pm

You call this archaeology?

I think I'm going to try a run (nowish) with the following changes:

Manaan before Korriban
Starting with 4 TI, going up to 7, and saving the rest for Persuade at Jedi lvl 5
Sith Code and Doubting Sith instead of Ajunta Pall/Students
The Ithorian and Duros for extra LSP on Taris

We'll see how it goes.

Edit: Well I butchered the run pretty good, but I can confirm the new prestige route is pretty good. I got LSP from the Ithorian and the Duros in the Sith Base on Taris to counteract the DSP from The Doubting Sith.

I'm not sure about Manaan first. The only real apprehension I have about it is when I fought Uthar, he went super saiyan on me. I wonder if doing Korriban second scales his stats up and makes that fight harder? It was a rough fight.

Doing Manaan first did make credits easier at the Korriban shop, but if I had to do it again I'd try Korriban first. I had 9 Persuade and 7 TI by level 6, so Korriban first shouldn't be a problem persuade-wise.

I also skipped the Tarisian noble's strongbox and didn't have trouble with the credits on Dantooine; in fact, I had 9000 in total. I got both Mandalorian corpses near Juhani and the droid wreckage in the Ruins, but I'm not sure I needed the extras (I always get the Mando corpse with the shield).

Not having an energy shield only really bugged me in the Sand People Enclave, and I just used a medpac and was fine. So those are my thoughts.

Edit edit: Oh and I watched the dream sequence after landing on Dantooine and didn't end up there after the Leviathan. So I can confirm your supposition with a sample size of one. Smiley

I think I'm going to try a run (nowish) with the following changes:

Manaan before Korriban
Starting with 4 TI, going up to 7, and saving the rest for Persuade at Jedi lvl 5
Sith Code and Doubting Sith instead of Ajunta Pall/Students
The Ithorian and Duros for extra LSP on Taris

We'll see how it goes.

Edit: Well I butchered the run pretty good, but I can confirm the new prestige route is pretty good.  I got LSP from the Ithorian and the Duros in the Sith Base on Taris to counteract the DSP from The Doubting Sith.

I'm not sure about Manaan first.  The only real apprehension I have about it is when I fought Uthar, he went super saiyan on me.  I wonder if doing Korriban second scales his stats up and makes that fight harder?  It was a rough fight.

Doing Manaan first did make credits easier at the Korriban shop, but if I had to do it again I'd try Korriban first.  I had 9 Persuade and 7 TI by level 6, so Korriban first shouldn't be a problem persuade-wise.

I also skipped the Tarisian noble's strongbox and didn't have trouble with the credits on Dantooine; in fact, I had 9000 in total.  I got both Mandalorian corpses near Juhani and the droid wreckage in the Ruins, but I'm not sure I needed the extras (I always get the Mando corpse with the shield).

Not having an energy shield only really bugged me in the Sand People Enclave, and I just used a medpac and was fine.  So those are my thoughts.

Edit edit: Oh and I watched the dream sequence after landing on Dantooine and didn't end up there after the Leviathan.  So I can confirm your supposition with a sample size of one. :)

glasnonck

2015-05-29 04:05:17 pm

Without really knowing what to do for the new quests on Korriban, the test run I did today saved 2:30 on Korriban over my PB split. I did lose about a minute on Taris, but that's mainly because I didn't know what to say to Zelka and the Ithorian. I'm really liking the route changes. With good execution, sub 2-hours seems quite attainable.

However, I'm not sure I prefer Energy Resistance over Force Valor, but it does fill the role of Poison Immunity. Is there something that we could replace valor with? If you want to try to use a combat force power it probably won't work, since Malak has Force Immunity active. To get rid of that, you need Force Suppression. And then, you need to get past his saving throws / immunities, so the only good options are Plague or Whirlwind. I think Valor will stay just to keep things simple.

5: Force Speed + Energy Resistance
6: Affect Mind
7: Dominate Mind?
8: Force Valor?
9: Knight Speed
10: Improved Energy Resistance
11: Drain Life
12: Knight Valor?

AlecK47

2015-05-29 06:17:30 pm

I'm also thinking Korriban first. You'll still have the mid-tier feats for Flurry and 2WF for all the fights there, the money will be fine, Juhani and Zalbaar won't get Critical Strike from auto leveling, and your last level on the planet (8) should be available right as you start the Uthar fight. Before the prestige reroute doing Manaan first would have given a level that would have yielded Knight Speed and a free full heal while evading the tarentateks, but speed > convenience.

There shouldn't be any appreciable difference in the Uthar/Yuthura fight with one level fewer; I'm pretty sure you just got trolled by the RNG.

You must be doing something else on Taris or Dantooine to get credits that I don't, because it always seems really tight for me. Then again, it could just be as simple as you selling the Sigil crystal, but I'd rather lose a few seconds and keep that - mostly for the bonus to hit on Korriban and Tatooine.

As for the L/DSP thing, I'm pretty sure it's treating as two increments what I was calling one. I haven't noticed any that would be 3x or 1.5x, depending on the scale used, or any that would be 1x by their scale.

Especially with Manaan after Korriban, Affect Mind shouldn't even be necessary; if it would be, just buy one fewer life support packs or something. I'm still planning on getting Throw Saber and at least basic Valor just because there are no better options, IMO. But I still prefer Energy Resistance, because as I said before it's much nicer with the infinite duration glitch and reducing all energy damage by half really adds up. It's easier to show than explain, but ER tends to stick around for the entirety of a planet if you apply it properly, and doesn't seem to affect how Speed and the infinite duration glitch interact.

I'm also thinking Korriban first.  You'll still have the mid-tier feats for Flurry and 2WF for all the fights there, the money will be fine, Juhani and Zalbaar won't get Critical Strike from auto leveling, and your last level on the planet (8) should be available right as you start the Uthar fight.  Before the prestige reroute doing Manaan first would have given a level that would have yielded Knight Speed and a free full heal while evading the tarentateks, but speed > convenience.

There shouldn't be any appreciable difference in the Uthar/Yuthura fight with one level fewer; I'm pretty sure you just got trolled by the RNG.

You must be doing something else on Taris or Dantooine to get credits that I don't, because it always seems really tight for me.  Then again, it could just be as simple as you selling the Sigil crystal, but I'd rather lose a few seconds and keep that - mostly for the bonus to hit on Korriban and Tatooine.

As for the L/DSP thing, I'm pretty sure it's treating as two increments what I was calling one.  I haven't noticed any that would be 3x or 1.5x, depending on the scale used, or any that would be 1x by their scale.

Especially with Manaan after Korriban, Affect Mind shouldn't even be necessary; if it would be, just buy one fewer life support packs or something.  I'm still planning on getting Throw Saber and at least basic Valor just because there are no better options, IMO.  But I still prefer Energy Resistance, because as I said before it's much nicer with the infinite duration glitch and reducing all energy damage by half really adds up.  It's easier to show than explain, but ER tends to stick around for the entirety of a planet if you apply it properly, and doesn't seem to affect how Speed and the infinite duration glitch interact.

indykenobi

2015-05-29 11:11:27 pm

You call this archaeology?

I actually didn't sell Sigil, I used it (which I hadn't thought of and felt silly about). I'm also not sure what I'm doing differently to get the extra credits; I was actually surprised to have as much as I did, and I bought all the Advanced Medpacs on Dantooine because of the extra.

I would agree that Affect Mind isn't necessary. But if there really are no other useful powers, we could get it and Dominate Mind just to keep our menus clean, assuming they don't mess up any important dialogues. My last run actually did exactly the Force Powers that glasnonck listed, but swapped Dominate Mind and Force Valor. And if I was doing Korriban first I'd get Force Valor at 6 instead (seems you need that to get Lashowe's flirtatious Persuade option?).

Also I'm really confused about Persuade now; I double checked glasnonck's 2:01 and he got both Korriban checks without any points in Persuade at all. So if that chart on strategywiki is accurate, they have to be Easy checks, which doesn't seem right. I wonder if those checks are handled differently somehow, or if the chart is just inaccurate.

How fast is opening Zelka's door and talking to him? The Duros in the Sith base seems really fast, so I had done that one instead of Zelka. But maybe that's actually slower.

I actually didn't sell Sigil, I used it (which I hadn't thought of and felt silly about).  I'm also not sure what I'm doing differently to get the extra credits; I was actually surprised to have as much as I did, and I bought all the Advanced Medpacs on Dantooine because of the extra.

I would agree that Affect Mind isn't necessary.  But if there really are no other useful powers, we could get it and Dominate Mind just to keep our menus clean, assuming they don't mess up any important dialogues.  My last run actually did exactly the Force Powers that glasnonck listed, but swapped Dominate Mind and Force Valor.  And if I was doing Korriban first I'd get Force Valor at 6 instead (seems you need that to get Lashowe's flirtatious Persuade option?).

Also I'm really confused about Persuade now; I double checked glasnonck's 2:01 and he got both Korriban checks without any points in Persuade at all.  So if that chart on strategywiki is accurate, they have to be Easy checks, which doesn't seem right.  I wonder if those checks are handled differently somehow, or if the chart is just inaccurate.

How fast is opening Zelka's door and talking to him?  The Duros in the Sith base seems really fast, so I had done that one instead of Zelka.  But maybe that's actually slower.

glasnonck

2015-05-30 08:04:56 am

You shouldn't need to sell the Sigil crystal. When you go by Zelka's on your second pass by, try not to sell anything to him. Just buy the Nerve Enhancement Package (and possibly a few stims) and leave. You'll want to sell as much as you can to Janice Nall (the droid shop owner) because I think she gives better prices. I also didn't have to visit the Telosian noble's room in Davik's Estate to have enough credits on Dantooine (I had approx 8700).

In my run yesterday I had 10 points in Charisma and 8 points in persuade. With that setup I didn't need to have Valor to get Lashowe's flirtatious persuade option. When running the traditional build, you will have 0 points in persuade plus Valor being active. Maybe that confuses the game somewhat? This seems possible since the flirt persuade isn't available until you use Valor, and you need ~8 points in persuade to get it normally (I think indy had 7 points in his last run). Otherwise, the chart seems like it's wrong OR it doesn't account for certain situations (like using Valor).

I doubt that opening Zelka's door is faster than the Duros, but it may be faster than the Ithorian. However, the Ithorian gives you 2 boosts to LSP if you give him a medpac as well. Also, Zelka's door can be opened with security if you have a point in it, which would cost 2 skill points. I'll try to time them individually later today or tomorrow.

You shouldn't need to sell the Sigil crystal. When you go by Zelka's on your second pass by, try not to sell anything to him. Just buy the Nerve Enhancement Package (and possibly a few stims) and leave. You'll want to sell as much as you can to Janice Nall (the droid shop owner) because I think she gives better prices. I also didn't have to visit the Telosian noble's room in Davik's Estate to have enough credits on Dantooine (I had approx 8700).

In my run yesterday I had 10 points in Charisma and 8 points in persuade. With that setup I didn't need to have Valor to get Lashowe's flirtatious persuade option. When running the traditional build, you will have 0 points in persuade plus Valor being active. Maybe that confuses the game somewhat? This seems possible since the flirt persuade isn't available until you use Valor, and you need ~8 points in persuade to get it normally (I think indy had 7 points in his last run). Otherwise, the chart seems like it's wrong OR it doesn't account for certain situations (like using Valor).

I doubt that opening Zelka's door is faster than the Duros, but it may be faster than the Ithorian. However, the Ithorian gives you 2 boosts to LSP if you give him a medpac as well. Also, Zelka's door can be opened with security if you have a point in it, which would cost 2 skill points. I'll try to time them individually later today or tomorrow.

indykenobi

Edit history:

indykenobi: 2015-05-30 05:45:41 pm

2015-05-30 05:28:49 pm

You call this archaeology?

My guess on Lashowe's flirting option is that you need at least 10 Charisma (or not a negative Charisma modifier). So if you start with 10 you don't need Valor, but if you only have 8, regardless of Persuade you need to cast Valor to boost your Charisma to 10. I'm more confused about how you get any of the Persuasions with no points in Persuade. It just seems like there's too wide a variety of outcomes on the Yuthura persuade, even, for that table to make sense.

Edit: That's a good point about the credits and Taris sellers. I didn't realize Janice Nall gave better prices than Zelka.

glasnonck

Edit history:

glasnonck: 2015-05-31 05:21:12 pm

2015-05-31 04:19:14 pm

I think I was wrong about Janice giving better prices than Zelka, but they both do give better prices on some items (parts and plasma grenades in particular) than the Twi'lek on Dantooine.

I did some timing of the quests on Korriban and the cost for extra LSP on Taris, and I believe we are on the right track. Here's what I found:

Undercity Beggars 8s - +1 LSP and -20 credits
Zelka Shopping Trip 17s - purchased implant + 1 of each adrenal stim
Zelka Shopping & Soldiers 23s - above and +1 LSP (so, 6 seconds extra)
Bullied Merchant (grenade) 6s - +2 LSP
Bullied Ithorian 9s - +2 LSP
Captive Duros 4s - +1 LSP

So the Bullied Merchant, the Ithorian, and the Duros are probably the best choices to get extra LSP to cover the loss on Korriban.

Recite Sith Code 11 - +1 prestige
Doubting Sith 9 - +1 prestige
Mandalorian Weapons Cache 35 - +1 prestige
Lashowe and Holocron 2:41 - +2 prestige (1:10 in just walking to the mission)
Ajunta Pall's Tomb 3:06 - +1 prestige (1:10 in just walking to the mission)
Renegade Sith 2:20 - +1 prestige (0:32 in just walking to the mission)

The Renegade Sith mission looks pretty good, but it only gives 1 prestige. And when added to the other indoor mission, the Mandalorian Weapons Cache, it would take longer than Lashowe's mission.

Edit: So the best Korriban missions would be Sith Code, Doubting Sith, Lashowe + Sith Holocron, and the Double Cross. This should save about 4:30 over the old route if I timed things correctly.

I think I was wrong about Janice giving better prices than Zelka, but they both do give better prices on some items (parts and plasma grenades in particular) than the Twi'lek on Dantooine.

I did some timing of the quests on Korriban and the cost for extra LSP on Taris, and I believe we are on the right track. Here's what I found:

[hidden="Taris"]
  Undercity Beggars                 8s  -  +1 LSP and -20 credits
  Zelka Shopping Trip             17s  -  purchased implant + 1 of each adrenal stim
  Zelka Shopping & Soldiers    23s  -  above and +1 LSP (so, 6 seconds extra)
  Bullied Merchant (grenade)    6s  -  +2 LSP
  Bullied Ithorian                      9s  -  +2 LSP
  Captive Duros                        4s  -  +1 LSP
[/hidden]
So the Bullied Merchant, the Ithorian, and the Duros are probably the best choices to get extra LSP to cover the loss on Korriban.

[hidden="Korriban"]
  Recite Sith Code                        11  -  +1 prestige
  Doubting Sith                              9  -  +1 prestige
  Mandalorian Weapons Cache      35  -  +1 prestige
  Lashowe and Holocron            2:41  -  +2 prestige (1:10 in just walking to the mission)
  Ajunta Pall's Tomb                  3:06  -  +1 prestige (1:10 in just walking to the mission)
  Renegade Sith                        2:20  -  +1 prestige (0:32 in just walking to the mission)
[/hidden]
The Renegade Sith mission looks pretty good, but it only gives 1 prestige. And when added to the other indoor mission, the Mandalorian Weapons Cache, it would take longer than Lashowe's mission.

Edit: So the best Korriban missions would be Sith Code, Doubting Sith, Lashowe + Sith Holocron, and the Double Cross. This should save about 4:30 over the old route if I timed things correctly.

indykenobi

2015-05-31 06:51:49 pm

You call this archaeology?

Seems like we have a consensus on the Korriban route and the LSP on Taris, then. Especially since doing the Weapons Cache would mean more DSP, so we'd have to either ditch Solari or farm more LSP somewhere.

My impression of merchant sell prices we're that they were uniform across planet; i.e. every vendor on Taris has the same sell price, every vendor on Tatooine has the same sell price, etc. I could be wrong about this. I do know that Taris is higher than Dantooine (and I think Korriban), and the highest value for selling items comes on (drum roll) Yavin IV, by far.

As an example, you get race bonds for winning the Tatooine swoop races, a total of 120. If you sell them on Tatooine, you get 60 credits each for 7,200 credits. However, if you sell those race bonds on Yavin IV, you get 156(!) credits each for a total of 18,720 credits. Yavin IV is just insane.

glasnonck

2015-06-01 10:41:34 am

Prices are based on what merchant you're doing business with. Each merchant has a percentage for each buying and selling that represents the percent of the base value of the item. If you buy an item worth 100 credits from a shop with a 70% buy rate, you'll only pay 70 credits. I think this percentage is applied to all items that you buy from or sell to the merchant.

I believe the usual rates are 100%/25% buy and sell. Of course, there are exceptions. On Taris, most of the shops have a 40% sell rate, including Zelka. However, once you reach Dantooine, most of the shops will have the usual 25% sell rate. We sell to Janice Nall at the droid shop because we get a few extra items from T3 that we can sell for the higher rate before leaving Taris.

The rates are not consistent across all planets, but Taris may be the only exception. Larrim, who meets you outside your apartment, has the rates 110% / 40%. He's the priciest shop I know of on Taris. In the Outcast Village, Igear has the rates 75% / 20%, so he's a good place to purchase items, but don't sell him anything.

If your numbers are right, then Yavin IV has a sell rate of 260%, but that may change based on how many times you have helped the merchant there.

Prices are based on what merchant you're doing business with. Each merchant has a percentage for each buying and selling that represents the percent of the base value of the item. If you buy an item worth 100 credits from a shop with a 70% buy rate, you'll only pay 70 credits. I think this percentage is applied to all items that you buy from or sell to the merchant.

I believe the usual rates are 100%/25% buy and sell. Of course, there are exceptions. On Taris, most of the shops have a 40% sell rate, including Zelka. However, once you reach Dantooine, most of the shops will have the usual 25% sell rate. We sell to Janice Nall at the droid shop because we get a few extra items from T3 that we can sell for the higher rate before leaving Taris.

The rates are not consistent across all planets, but Taris may be the only exception. Larrim, who meets you outside your apartment, has the rates 110% / 40%. He's the priciest shop I know of on Taris. In the Outcast Village, Igear has the rates 75% / 20%, so he's a good place to purchase items, but don't sell him anything.

If your numbers are right, then Yavin IV has a sell rate of 260%, but that may change based on how many times you have helped the merchant there.

AlecK47

2015-06-05 10:04:33 pm

Congrats to glasnonck on cutting two hours RTA the other night (sub 1:59 even)! I'll let him link the run, though.

Another idea that just hit me recently is to give Bastila Force Speed as soon as you get her, and use her as the main runner for most of the remainder of Taris. I was already giving her Speed for the Base, but it occurred to me that there's a good bit of running before that...

These are slightly rough, but variance should be minimal, barring the game's stupidity (which I'm getting better at manipulating). I'm omitting the base numbers because I made sure that things went well with Speed, and any mistakes were accounted for. Also, any areas I don't mention are a wash.

4 seconds saved in apartment block
6 seconds saved on the run to the cantina in the next area
10 seconds running to the north area
13 getting to Janice (includes stop by Ithorian)
10 getting to the Sith Base from Janice
43 seconds saved before Sith Base

9 seconds getting to the droid fight in the base
6 seconds leaving the base

10 seconds when leaving Davik's Estate

Total: around 1:11, though likely to be more like 50-60 seconds

Also worth mentioning is that leading with your main character at first in Davik's Estate leads to a really nice and consistent way to get everyone fighting their desired opponents. Have the main character attack the bounty hunter, and Zalbaar will join him. Then run Bastila into the Torture Room and have her start fighting there, before queuing up Flurries with Zalbaar and running the main character into the Torture Room.

Not having Valor for the Sith Governor sucks, but I can't see passing up time savings like that.

Finally I really want to get another convenient cache of loot or something, whether it's the Tarisian Noble's room or not, because when redoing my practice saves yet again I ended up leaving Dantooine with 71 credits and not getting all the Advanced Medpacks (not that you need all of them). Maybe I'll do a more thorough analysis tomorrow.

Congrats to glasnonck on cutting two hours RTA the other night (sub 1:59 even)!  I'll let him link the run, though.

Another idea that just hit me recently is to give Bastila Force Speed as soon as you get her, and use her as the main runner for most of the remainder of Taris.  I was already giving her Speed for the Base, but it occurred to me that there's a good bit of running before that...

[hidden="Time Test Results"]These are slightly rough, but variance should be minimal, barring the game's stupidity (which I'm getting better at manipulating).  I'm omitting the base numbers because I made sure that things went well with Speed, and any mistakes were accounted for.  Also, any areas I don't mention are a wash.

4 seconds saved in apartment block
6 seconds saved on the run to the cantina in the next area
10 seconds running to the north area
13 getting to Janice (includes stop by Ithorian)
10 getting to the Sith Base from Janice
[b]43 seconds saved before Sith Base[/b]

9 seconds getting to the droid fight in the base
6 seconds leaving the base

10 seconds when leaving Davik's Estate

Total: around 1:11, though likely to be more like 50-60 seconds[/hidden]

Also worth mentioning is that leading with your main character at first in Davik's Estate leads to a really nice and consistent way to get everyone fighting their desired opponents.  Have the main character attack the bounty hunter, and Zalbaar will join him.  Then run Bastila into the Torture Room and have her start fighting there, before queuing up Flurries with Zalbaar and running the main character into the Torture Room.

Not having Valor for the Sith Governor sucks, but I can't see passing up time savings like that.

Finally I really want to get another convenient cache of loot or something, whether it's the Tarisian Noble's room or not, because when redoing my practice saves [i]yet again[/i] I ended up leaving Dantooine with 71 credits and not getting all the Advanced Medpacks (not that you need all of them).  Maybe I'll do a more thorough analysis tomorrow.

glasnonck

Edit history:

glasnonck: 2015-06-10 02:07:40 pm

glasnonck: 2015-06-10 02:07:09 pm

glasnonck: 2015-06-06 07:43:49 pm

2015-06-05 10:33:03 pm

Good point; I should have linked the new WR sooner. The new time to beat is 1:55:49. Edit 2: changed to reflect new WR.

I like the idea of using Bastila for Force Speed. If it works out, we could save a good bit of time there. Recently, I've simply hoped for infinite alacrity at that point. Before, I had trouble keeping my party together during that segment if I'm using speed (although I doubt it loses time compared to not using anything). Also, recently Bastila hasn't been able to level up right after she joins the party. It may be related to me skipping the Carth dialogue at the beginning of Taris, or I may be avoiding a couple extra enemies. I'm not sure.

I think it's alright if we don't have Valor for the Sith Governor, especially if we pick up a few stims from Zelka when we shop there. I have been grabbing one of each.

Sounds like a really good strat for Davik's Estate. I'll have use it in future runs.

The Tarisian Noble's room would be a good place to start. You can loot the rubble to the left as you enter the Undercity Sewers. It will sometimes give you a part. You could also go into both rooms on the right as you enter the Black Vulkar Base. Each has 1 computer spike and 1 part, but you only need the one computer spike. I don't know if you're already picking up the loot from both Mandalorian corpses beside Juhani, but those may help. I think you can also get some equipment from a destroyed droid in the left room of the Dantooine temple.

One other thing I like to do is to sell Brejik's Gloves (+1 Dex) on Taris instead of giving them to Bastila to use until Dantooine. That way I get a better sell price for them. Usually, you won't need more than 2 advanced medpacs before the end of Korriban. The main thing is just being able to get the CNS Strength Enhancer. Hopefully I'll be there to see what you're buying or selling and how it differs from my run.

Good point; I should have linked the new WR sooner. The new time to beat is [url="https://youtu.be/mYmklmHrZsI"]1:55:49[/url]. Edit 2: changed to reflect new WR.

I like the idea of using Bastila for Force Speed. If it works out, we could save a good bit of time there. Recently, I've simply hoped for infinite alacrity at that point. Before, I had trouble keeping my party together during that segment if I'm using speed (although I doubt it loses time compared to not using anything). Also, recently Bastila hasn't been able to level up right after she joins the party. It may be related to me skipping the Carth dialogue at the beginning of Taris, or I may be avoiding a couple extra enemies. I'm not sure.

I think it's alright if we don't have Valor for the Sith Governor, especially if we pick up a few stims from Zelka when we shop there. I have been grabbing one of each.

Sounds like a really good strat for Davik's Estate. I'll have use it in future runs.

The Tarisian Noble's room would be a good place to start. You can loot the rubble to the left as you enter the Undercity Sewers. It will sometimes give you a part. You could also go into both rooms on the right as you enter the Black Vulkar Base. Each has 1 computer spike and 1 part, but you only need the one computer spike. I don't know if you're already picking up the loot from both Mandalorian corpses beside Juhani, but those may help. I think you can also get some equipment from a destroyed droid in the left room of the Dantooine temple.

One other thing I like to do is to sell Brejik's Gloves (+1 Dex) on Taris instead of giving them to Bastila to use until Dantooine. That way I get a better sell price for them. Usually, you won't need more than 2 advanced medpacs before the end of Korriban. The main thing is just being able to get the CNS Strength Enhancer. Hopefully I'll be there to see what you're buying or selling and how it differs from my run.

AlecK47

2015-06-07 09:35:21 pm

Those are all the places I've been hitting (and the things I've been selling), with the exception of the Tarisian Noble's room when making my last practice save. My plan is to try to figure out what you can expect from each container, what you need after selling to Janice, and such. Basically I want to have some idea of when you need to go out of your way to get extra stuff and when you don't.

My new streaming room should be ready for me in a few days, and I hope to be able to stream before then, so we'll see what comes of that.

indykenobi

2015-06-15 06:39:41 pm

You call this archaeology?

Found a couple fun things today while poking around Korriban for All Quests:

http://www.twitch.tv/indykenobi/v/6222726

This allows you to complete Jagi's Challenge immediately after it triggers. There's a small window to talk to Jagi again, but it's not frame perfect or anything. When you trigger the second conversation, you can convince Jagi that Canderous was right to complete the quest. You can't attack him, and you have to finish the second conversation before he gets too far away.

http://www.twitch.tv/indykenobi/v/6222600

An interesting time with the Jorak Uln conversation (insane Sith master who tortures you or Mekel based on answers to a quiz). I managed to loot a corpse as the cutscene was starting, and used that to be able to zoom around the room while he's talking to you. Not useful, but it was pretty hilarious.

glasnonck

Edit history:

glasnonck: 2015-09-07 07:14:28 pm

2015-09-03 07:26:35 pm

So while messing around during one of Indy's streams, I found another way to do a quick FLU on the player character. I haven't tried very many variations yet, so I'll describe the setup I have.

After rescuing Bastila on Taris, I am level 3 and ready to level up to 4. By doing a manual FLU (no footlocker) with a party member who does not have a level up ready, I reached level 4 with a level up ready. Then I simply leveled up without the FLU until I reached level 15 going on 16 (I was a scoundrel at the time, but it works with soldier too). Then I did a manual FLU again, and the leveled up normally. For all of these level ups, I chose recommended attributes and used no skill points, except when leveling to 17 where I chose recommended skill points. I was able to get master TWF (as well as sneak attack IX) using this technique.

This can also be done using a footlocker FLU in lieu of a manual FLU. Note: I only tried this with a party member who was the same level as me.

This is notable since it is almost as fast as the known footlocker method, while being less restrictive than that method. One restriction I do know is that you need to be leveling to an attribute level for this to work (i.e., 3->4 when starting the FLU).

I would like to consider adding a FLU to the current route to help against a few encounters (elevator droid, sith governor, Lashowe, Uthar, and Yuthura). We would have to postpone getting Implant level 2 until later, but I think the bonus from Master TWF would be enough to cover the cost. Maybe we could do another FLU to get master speed / valor at level 7 -> 8?

Edit: Upon further consideration, I believe this is almost the same as the previously known footlocker method of FLU. However, it adds the ability to start the FLU without a footlocker AND land the FLU on any arbitrary level. This is only really useful when you're a scoundrel, though.

So while messing around during one of Indy's streams, I found another way to do a quick FLU on the player character. I haven't tried very many variations yet, so I'll describe the setup I have.

After rescuing Bastila on Taris, I am level 3 and ready to level up to 4. By doing a manual FLU (no footlocker) with a party member who does not have a level up ready, I reached level 4 with a level up ready. Then I simply leveled up without the FLU until I reached level 15 going on 16 (I was a scoundrel at the time, but it works with soldier too). Then I did a manual FLU again, and the leveled up normally. For all of these level ups, I chose recommended attributes and used no skill points, except when leveling to 17 where I chose recommended skill points. I was able to get master TWF (as well as sneak attack IX) using this technique.

This can also be done using a footlocker FLU in lieu of a manual FLU. Note: I only tried this with a party member who was the same level as me.

This is notable since it is almost as fast as the known footlocker method, while being less restrictive than that method. One restriction I do know is that you need to be leveling to an attribute level for this to work (i.e., 3->4 when starting the FLU).

I would like to consider adding a FLU to the current route to help against a few encounters (elevator droid, sith governor, Lashowe, Uthar, and Yuthura). We would have to postpone getting Implant level 2 until later, but I think the bonus from Master TWF would be enough to cover the cost. Maybe we could do another FLU to get master speed / valor at level 7 -> 8?

Edit: Upon further consideration, I believe this is almost the same as the previously known footlocker method of FLU. However, it adds the ability to start the FLU without a footlocker AND land the FLU on any arbitrary level. This is only really useful when you're a scoundrel, though.

glasnonck

2015-09-07 07:29:04 pm

Here's a method of getting about 250 skill points at the beginning of the game. I've known about this for some time, but it just never came up. This link is a good resource for doing things with FLU. It also describes this glitch.

This only works for the soldier class, and of course it is the one class with the most to gain from it. Once you level up on the Endar Spire, Fake Level Up to level 3 and then do a Real Level Up to level 4. Make sure you choose recommended for all choices: Attributes, Skills, and Feats. And that's it. On your next level up, you should have over 257 skill points. When testing this yourself, I recommend turning on cheats and using "addlevel" in the console to quickly get to the next level.

AlecK47

2015-09-08 05:58:35 pm

I'll mess with it sometime in the near future. Can't say I'm inclined to switch classes (I'd rather keep the implant for immunities over Sith Mask), but I'll see where it takes me. I'll consider class swapping too.

glasnonck

2015-09-08 07:36:56 pm

I guess I should have made it a bit clearer. I mainly think this might be useful for the all quest routes. A soldier would be able to take on the Taris Arena a bit earlier, so maybe we could cut out a bit of backtracking (although we do have to go to the cantina to talk to Canderous).

I doubt this would improve the current route for any%, but I haven't looked into it recently.

AlecK47

2015-09-08 08:05:43 pm

Yeah, that makes a lot more sense. But who knows, maybe there's some magic in there for any% somehow. I'm sure I'd have fun brainstorming and testing, anyway.

indykenobi

2015-10-18 05:43:02 pm

You call this archaeology?

This might be a long post, so here's the short version: I found two timesaves on Kashyyyk; one definitely saves time, one probably saves time. New test route is here, with a lot of bad play in it: http://www.twitch.tv/indykenobi/v/21352285 .

First time save: you can go straight from the landing pad to the elevator down to the Shadowlands; just save teleport past the Wookiee guard who stops you. By skipping the run to and from the village and talking to Chuundar, you save about a minute.

Second time save: if you kill Freyyr in the Lower Shadowlands, when you return to the Upper Shadowlands you can talk to Gorwooken at the elevator, and he'll teleport you to the village to talk to Chuundar. If you open the map before that CS starts, you can Return to the Ebon Hawk. At that point an apparently unskippable CS triggers that shows Wookiee slaves walking away, and you're teleported to the Czerka store. But you can then just run to the Ebon Hawk, or do a transit warp to get back there again.

The big complication from this second time save is you get a lot of DSP from killing Freyyr, making you unable to wield the Solari-enhanced saber. There's two possible fixes for this:

1. Not caring. You don't kill very many things on the Unknown World, and if you equip the Sith Lightsaber and the Prototype Vibroblade offhand, you can still Force Jump, and should still be okay with the killing until you get the infusion of LSP on top of the Rakatan Temple.
2. Caring. There are two pretty easy LSP on Kashyyyk that will get you back to Solari-equippableness: first you can kill the Mandalorians attacking the Wookiee in the Lower Shadowlands, then give him a medpac for LSP. Second, you can loot the droid head just past Jolee in the Upper Shadowlands, then return it to the merchant on the Landing Pad on your way out to get LSP for encouraging the mechanic not to murder the traitorous merchant.

I'm also not sure exactly what the best route would be for the Lower Shadowlands, but I think you want to kill Freyyr before the Star Map, since then you won't have Jolee tagging along. If you did get the LSP, you'd want to do that after killing Freyyr on the way out as well; you get more LSP if you're neutral-aligned than if you're already light-aligned.

I might poke at this more later, but at the very least the first one saves time.

This might be a long post, so here's the short version: I found two timesaves on Kashyyyk; one definitely saves time, one probably saves time.  New test route is here, with a lot of bad play in it: http://www.twitch.tv/indykenobi/v/21352285 .

First time save: you can go straight from the landing pad to the elevator down to the Shadowlands; just save teleport past the Wookiee guard who stops you.  By skipping the run to and from the village and talking to Chuundar, you save about a minute.

Second time save: if you kill Freyyr in the Lower Shadowlands, when you return to the Upper Shadowlands you can talk to Gorwooken at the elevator, and he'll teleport you to the village to talk to Chuundar.  If you open the map before that CS starts, you can Return to the Ebon Hawk.  At that point an apparently unskippable CS triggers that shows Wookiee slaves walking away, and you're teleported to the Czerka store.  But you can then just run to the Ebon Hawk, or do a transit warp to get back there again.

The big complication from this second time save is you get a lot of DSP from killing Freyyr, making you unable to wield the Solari-enhanced saber.  There's two possible fixes for this:

1. Not caring.  You don't kill very many things on the Unknown World, and if you equip the Sith Lightsaber and the Prototype Vibroblade offhand, you can still Force Jump, and should still be okay with the killing until you get the infusion of LSP on top of the Rakatan Temple.
2. Caring.  There are two pretty easy LSP on Kashyyyk that will get you back to Solari-equippableness: first you can kill the Mandalorians attacking the Wookiee in the Lower Shadowlands, then give him a medpac for LSP.  Second, you can loot the droid head just past Jolee in the Upper Shadowlands, then return it to the merchant on the Landing Pad on your way out to get LSP for encouraging the mechanic not to murder the traitorous merchant.

I'm also not sure exactly what the best route would be for the Lower Shadowlands, but I think you want to kill Freyyr before the Star Map, since then you won't have Jolee tagging along.  If you did get the LSP, you'd want to do that after killing Freyyr on the way out as well; you get more LSP if you're neutral-aligned than if you're already light-aligned.

I might poke at this more later, but at the very least the first one saves time.

glasnonck

2015-10-18 07:45:01 pm

I just did a test run of Kashyyyk with the new strats (in addition to caring about the DSP). It yields a 1 minute and 20 second improvement in Kashyyyk and shouldn't cause a problem for our alignment. I don't even think we'd need to do 2 LS actions to make up for killing Freyyr, but I haven't checked this yet. Removing the droid head quest would save a bit more time too. I'll look into this a bit more later in the week. Nice find, Indy.

AlecK47

2015-10-19 12:20:50 pm

This sounds awesome! I think it's worth playing around with LSP/DSP a bit over the course of the run as a whole just to see what will work best. It might be enough to grab a bit more LSP on Taris or another earlier planet. Either way I was planning on getting back into this game [cynicism] even though I decided not to lob it up to the AGDQ game submissions committee so they could shoot it down in flames [/cynicism].

indykenobi

Edit history:

indykenobi: 2015-10-20 07:06:14 pm

indykenobi: 2015-10-20 04:05:59 pm

2015-10-20 12:24:58 pm

You call this archaeology?

One idea for LSP real quick while I'm "working": if we have 700 spare credits when we get to Tatooine, we can buy Sharina Fizark's wraid plate from her for 700 credits, which I believe is a Mid Light action for +2 LSP (since we're already light-aligned). It's a quick conversation too (2,1,1,3 IIRC without my notes).

My run last night just used the Sith Lightsaber and Prototype Vibro offhand after killing Freyyr, then switched back to the Solari-saber after defeating Bastila on the Rakatan temple. It didn't seem to hurt that much, but if there's quick and easy LSP they might be worth it.

Edit: I don't have time to test if this works tonight, but buying the plate from Sharina and then, after killing Freyyr, saving the Wookiee from the Mandalorians might be enough LSP to stay light and never have to unequip the saber.

Edit edit: Even easier, if you talk to the Czerka guards right outside the landing platform and go (1,1,2,2) you get LSP as well. It's a persuade check, so I think you might trigger a fight if that fails, but you can just run away from them and I think (I think?) you still get the LSP. So maybe the best would be these guards, then Freyyr, then the Mandalorian Wookiee.

One idea for LSP real quick while I'm "working": if we have 700 spare credits when we get to Tatooine, we can buy Sharina Fizark's wraid plate from her for 700 credits, which I believe is a Mid Light action for +2 LSP (since we're already light-aligned).  It's a quick conversation too (2,1,1,3 IIRC without my notes).

My run last night just used the Sith Lightsaber and Prototype Vibro offhand after killing Freyyr, then switched back to the Solari-saber after defeating Bastila on the Rakatan temple.  It didn't seem to hurt that much, but if there's quick and easy LSP they might be worth it.

Edit: I don't have time to test if this works tonight, but buying the plate from Sharina and then, after killing Freyyr, saving the Wookiee from the Mandalorians might be enough LSP to stay light and never have to unequip the saber.

Edit edit: Even easier, if you talk to the Czerka guards right outside the landing platform and go (1,1,2,2) you get LSP as well.  It's a persuade check, so I think you might trigger a fight if that fails, but you can just run away from them and I think (I think?) you still get the LSP.  So maybe the best would be these guards, then Freyyr, then the Mandalorian Wookiee.