KotOR speedrun in just over 2 hours -- Knights of the Old Republic Done Quick

2009-01-05 10:30:16 am

Hey, I know this is very silly and irrelevant, but how do you do those quick navigations on the menus?

For example, just on the beginning of the game your mouse cursor is already hidden and when you are on the attribute screen you can just cycle from the attributes themselves (str, dex, etc) to the Recommended option and so on.

I'm assuming your playing the PC version, since you have mentioned mouse clicks on previous posts. I've tried all the key permutations possible and couldn't find it.

Thinkshooter

2009-01-12 02:12:46 am

Runs: FCP, FC3, XWA, HD1-2, KotOR1-2

My only secret of fast menu navigation is to use the keyboard where possible. For example at the beginning I used the Enter key and the cursor arrows. But I also used the mouse where key navigation would have been less efficient, e.g to click Recommended and then fine-tune the attributes.

The only lesser known key combination is Shift + number keys to switch between powers, stims and grenades during gameplay.

The mouse cursor is hidden throughout the speedrun because I used the default Hardware Cursor setting. That way, the cursor is invisible in the recording. You can force the mouse cursor to appear in the recording if you switch to Sofware Cursor, but that induces a huge performance penalty and the video would become sluggish. Yes, I speedran with the PC version -- better clarify this in my first post.

(Sorry about late reply.)

arbitrary777

2009-01-12 08:13:23 pm

All right, thanks a lot.
Also, congratulations for the run. I've enjoyed it.
Wink

Thinkshooter

2009-03-06 03:44:14 pm

Runs: FCP, FC3, XWA, HD1-2, KotOR1-2

I promised I'd post a note when my new Hidden and Dangerous 2 speedrun becomes publicly available.

Here are the links to the game page and the download page. Awaiting your feedback here. Enjoy!

shoop

2009-10-16 08:21:39 am

I just watched this great run, it seems well executed. Smart decision to go for strength based soldier/guardian build.

First, couldn't this run be improved by exploiting game glitches? Item duplication for money, or an infinite XP exploit, something like that? Seems to work so well in the baldur's gate runs...

Second, what happens when you separate party members in solo mode, then turn solo mode back off? Can it be used to teleport other party members to where you are? In that case, one could try to speed things up by leaving a party member near an area exit. Would something like this work?

Third, the runner doesn't mention using one of the stimulants listed below. Do they in fact increase movement rate? If so, why aren't they used in the run, or did I just miss it? Also, do they stack with force speed?

Just wondering...

Adrenal Alacrity

Single Use
Attribute Bonus: Dexterity +4
Speed: Movement +20%
Duration: 120 secs

********************

Hyper-Adrenal Alacrity

Single Use
Attribute Bonus: Dexterity +6
Speed: Movement +30%
Duration: 120 secs

I just watched this great run, it seems well executed. Smart decision to go for strength based soldier/guardian build.

First, couldn't this run be improved by exploiting game glitches? Item duplication for money, or an infinite XP exploit, something like that? Seems to work so well in the baldur's gate runs...

Second, what happens when you separate party members in solo mode, then turn solo mode back off? Can it be used to teleport other party members to where you are? In that case, one could try to speed things up by leaving a party member near an area exit. Would something like this work?

Third, the runner doesn't mention using one of the stimulants listed below. Do they in fact increase movement rate? If so, why aren't they used in the run, or did I just miss it? Also, do they stack with force speed?

Just wondering...

Adrenal Alacrity

Single Use
Attribute Bonus: Dexterity +4
Speed: Movement +20%
Duration: 120 secs

********************

Hyper-Adrenal Alacrity

Single Use
Attribute Bonus: Dexterity +6
Speed: Movement +30%
Duration: 120 secs

Thinkshooter

Edit history:

Thinkshooter: 2009-10-20 10:18:05 am

2009-10-19 07:53:38 am

Runs: FCP, FC3, XWA, HD1-2, KotOR1-2

Thanks for the feedback! Good questions actually.

Quote from shoop:

First, couldn't this run be improved by exploiting game glitches? Item duplication for money, or an infinite XP exploit, something like that? Seems to work so well in the baldur's gate runs...

There is one ongoing glitch that I use. The stims, powers and upgrades are supposed to expire after a few minutes but in my run they somehow rarely do. I don't exactly know the mechanics, I just didn't do anything against this. It's possible that the expiration resets when a new level is loaded which happens very often in a speedrun.

I never found other exploits with net gain in time. E.g. I didn't need extra XP that would have paid off more time than it takes to get it.

Quote from shoop:

Second, what happens when you separate party members in solo mode, then turn solo mode back off? Can it be used to teleport other party members to where you are? In that case, one could try to speed things up by leaving a party member near an area exit. Would something like this work?

That's a neat idea that would work in Kotor II. In this game however, when your team is far from you, the game bounces you back from level exits with a "...gather your party first..." warning. I believe I've exploited those few cases when it does work, e.g. soon after entering the Taris sewers in part 1.

Quote from shoop:

Third, the runner doesn't mention using one of the stimulants listed below. Do they in fact increase movement rate? If so, why aren't they used in the run, or did I just miss it? Also, do they stack with force speed?

I do use Alacrity. The first stim I use in the game, right after the fight in the Apartment Block on Taris, is Alacrity. That's a ~20% gain in running speed. But it doesn't stack with force speed. I also used it on Manaan before entering the ocean floor area. After force speed inevitably expires there, Alacrity lets you keep moving fast in the water.

It's a speedrun; it's always about net gain in time. I could have gone for a lot more stims, powers, XP etc., and it does look impressive when you decimate bosses in one slash. The question is whether getting those upgrades is worth the time.

Thanks for the feedback! Good questions actually.

[quote="shoop"]
First, couldn't this run be improved by exploiting game glitches? Item duplication for money, or an infinite XP exploit, something like that? Seems to work so well in the baldur's gate runs...
[/quote]

There is one ongoing glitch that I use. The stims, powers and upgrades are supposed to expire after a few minutes but in my run they somehow rarely do. I don't exactly know the mechanics, I just didn't do anything against this. It's possible that the expiration resets when a new level is loaded which happens very often in a speedrun.

I never found other exploits with net gain in time. E.g. I didn't need extra XP that would have paid off more time than it takes to get it.

[quote="shoop"]
Second, what happens when you separate party members in solo mode, then turn solo mode back off? Can it be used to teleport other party members to where you are? In that case, one could try to speed things up by leaving a party member near an area exit. Would something like this work?
[/quote]

That's a neat idea that would work in Kotor II. In this game however, when your team is far from you, the game bounces you back from level exits with a "...gather your party first..." warning. I believe I've exploited those few cases when it does work, e.g. soon after entering the Taris sewers in part 1.

[quote="shoop"]
Third, the runner doesn't mention using one of the stimulants listed below. Do they in fact increase movement rate? If so, why aren't they used in the run, or did I just miss it? Also, do they stack with force speed?
[/quote]

I do use Alacrity. The first stim I use in the game, right after the fight in the Apartment Block on Taris, is Alacrity. That's a ~20% gain in running speed. But it doesn't stack with force speed. I also used it on Manaan before entering the ocean floor area. After force speed inevitably expires there, Alacrity lets you keep moving fast in the water.

It's a speedrun; it's always about net gain in time. I could have gone for a lot more stims, powers, XP etc., and it does look impressive when you decimate bosses in one slash. The question is whether getting those upgrades is worth the time.

shoop

2009-10-19 01:09:05 pm

Quote from Thinkshooter:

There is one ongoing glitch that I use. The stims, powers and upgrades are supposed to expire after a few minutes but in my run they somehow rarely do. I don't exactly know the mechanics, I just didn't do anything against this. It's possible that the expiration resets when a new level is loaded which happens very often in a speedrun.

I never found other exploits with net gain in time. E.g. I didn't need extra XP that would have paid off more time than it takes to get it.

After seeing your run I got interested in the game again, and I noticed this very same effect. It seems to have something to do with area transitions but I'm not quite sure how it works either.

Quote from Thinkshooter:

That's a neat idea that would work in Kotor II. In this game however, when your team is far from you, the game bounces you back from level exits with a "...gather your party first..." warning. I believe I've exploited those few cases when it does work, e.g. soon after entering the Taris sewers in part 1.

Sounds like you thought about it Smiley

It's just that I had this feeling that, even in Kotor I, sometimes party members are teleported towards you if they have got seriously lost somewhere. In that case "gathering your party" would take less time than actually running to the exit. But I'm actually not really sure when or even if it happens. Perhaps only in very large areas? I'll try this out on my new playthrough of the game.

Quote from Thinkshooter:

I do use Alacrity. The first stim I use in the game, right after the fight on Lower Taris, is Alacrity. That's a ~20% gain in running speed. But it doesn't stack with force speed. I also used it on Manaan before entering the ocean floor area. After force speed inevitably expires there, Alacrity lets you keep moving fast in the water.

Sorry, I missed that! Good job. Now if only you could get the force speed duration glitch to work there... But for that we would have to actually understand how to bring it about Smiley

Quote from Thinkshooter:

It's a speedrun; it's always about net gain in time. I could have gone for a lot more stims, powers, XP etc., and it does look impressive when you decimate bosses in one slash. The question is whether getting those upgrades is worth the time.

Of course. If you could easily make ten million credits in five seconds using some silly item underflow glitch, I'd say that's probably worth it. But as far as I could make out on the internet, you can dupe only in very specific places, and possibly even then only on the xbox version or something. I haven't found any convenient glitches of that kind. But I wasn't quite sure if you actively tried to avoid them or if you have looked for them but couldn't find any good ones.

Anyway, thanks for your answers - I'm satisfied!

[quote="Thinkshooter"]
There is one ongoing glitch that I use. The stims, powers and upgrades are supposed to expire after a few minutes but in my run they somehow rarely do. I don't exactly know the mechanics, I just didn't do anything against this. It's possible that the expiration resets when a new level is loaded which happens very often in a speedrun.

I never found other exploits with net gain in time. E.g. I didn't need extra XP that would have paid off more time than it takes to get it.
[/quote]

After seeing your run I got interested in the game again, and I noticed this very same effect. It seems to have something to do with area transitions but I'm not quite sure how it works either.

[quote="Thinkshooter"]
That's a neat idea that would work in Kotor II. In this game however, when your team is far from you, the game bounces you back from level exits with a "...gather your party first..." warning. I believe I've exploited those few cases when it does work, e.g. soon after entering the Taris sewers in part 1.
[/quote]
Sounds like you thought about it  :) It's just that I had this feeling that, even in Kotor I, [i]sometimes[/i] party members are teleported towards you if they have got seriously lost somewhere. In that case "gathering your party" would take less time than actually running to the exit. But I'm actually not really sure when or even if it happens. Perhaps only in very large areas? I'll try this out on my new playthrough of the game.

[quote="Thinkshooter"]
I do use Alacrity. The first stim I use in the game, right after the fight on Lower Taris, is Alacrity. That's a ~20% gain in running speed. But it doesn't stack with force speed. I also used it on Manaan before entering the ocean floor area. After force speed inevitably expires there, Alacrity lets you keep moving fast in the water.
[/quote]
Sorry, I missed that! Good job. Now if only you could get the force speed duration glitch to work there... But for that we would have to actually understand how to bring it about  :)

[quote="Thinkshooter"]
It's a speedrun; it's always about net gain in time. I could have gone for a lot more stims, powers, XP etc., and it does look impressive when you decimate bosses in one slash. The question is whether getting those upgrades is worth the time.
[/quote]
Of course. If you could easily make ten million credits in five seconds using some silly item underflow glitch, I'd say that's probably worth it. But as far as I could make out on the internet, you can dupe only in very specific places, and possibly even then only on the xbox version or something. I haven't found any convenient glitches of that kind. But I wasn't quite sure if you actively tried to avoid them or if you have looked for them but couldn't find any good ones.

Anyway, thanks for your answers - I'm satisfied!

Squirrelfanatic

2009-10-20 02:33:15 am

Quote from ForteGS:

Maybe the soon to be released restoration patch by Team Gizka will put it higher on your list Wink

Although the work on the patch hasn't entirely stopped, the progress of its development has slowed down remarkably. The main reason for this is that Team Gizka now only consists of Dashus and... no one else. More about that here.

shoop

2009-10-20 04:27:14 am

Quote from Squirrelfanatic:

Although the work on the patch hasn't entirely stopped, the progress of its development has slowed down remarkably. The main reason for this is that Team Gizka now only consists of Dashus and... no one else. More about that here.

Interesting... especially the other content restoration mod of which a beta can be downloaded already! Great stuff. If either of these mods gets a stable release, would SDA consider allowing them to be used in a Kotor 2 speedrun?

ExplodingCabbage

2009-10-20 06:17:57 am

Quote from shoop:

Quote from Squirrelfanatic:

Although the work on the patch hasn't entirely stopped, the progress of its development has slowed down remarkably. The main reason for this is that Team Gizka now only consists of Dashus and... no one else. More about that here.

Interesting... especially the other content restoration mod of which a beta can be downloaded already! Great stuff. If either of these mods gets a stable release, would SDA consider allowing them to be used in a Kotor 2 speedrun?

Almost certainly not. It's possible that under the new rules allowing freeware, certain custom levels, custom campaigns and total conversion mods of some games will be allowed, but I can't see SDA ever allowing the original campaign of a game to be run with mods installed.

NMS

2009-10-20 09:07:50 pm

Quote from ExplodingCabbage:

Almost certainly not. It's possible that under the new rules allowing freeware, certain custom levels, custom campaigns and total conversion mods of some games will be allowed, but I can't see SDA ever allowing the original campaign of a game to be run with mods installed.

Except for Half-Life.

ExplodingCabbage

2009-10-21 04:40:59 am

Quote from NMS:

Quote from ExplodingCabbage:

Almost certainly not. It's possible that under the new rules allowing freeware, certain custom levels, custom campaigns and total conversion mods of some games will be allowed, but I can't see SDA ever allowing the original campaign of a game to be run with mods installed.

Except for Half-Life.

Well, technically no. Except for all the games have been allowed to use mods under the established convention that modding strictly for the purpose of introducing a timer or demo recording is usually allowed. Half Life is slightly different to the rest in that rather than using a mod that adds in demo recording (or in this specific case, make demo recording actually usuable), they use an official patch to fix the demo recording and then use a mod to undo all the gameplay effects of that patch, thus producing the same effect as playing on a previous version with demo recording modded in.

There certainly is a significant difference between this and simply modding the demo recording into the older version, especially since someone could reasonably raise the question of how we know that the patch didn't have some gameplay effect we don't know about besides the bunny hopping capping that the mods undo; clearly an undetected change made by an official patch - which could do pretty much anything - is more likely than an unintended change made by a mod whose sole purpose is to add in demo recording or a timer. However, the Half Life mod use is nowhere near the huge issue people make it out to be, and is only a small deviation from what SDA accepts in other games.

[quote="NMS"]
[quote="ExplodingCabbage"]
Almost certainly not. It's possible that under the new rules allowing freeware, certain custom levels, custom campaigns and total conversion mods of some games will be allowed, but I can't see SDA ever allowing the original campaign of a game to be run with mods installed.
[/quote]

Except for Half-Life.
[/quote]

Well, technically no. Except for all the games have been allowed to use mods under the established convention that modding strictly for the purpose of introducing a timer or demo recording is usually allowed. Half Life is slightly different to the rest in that rather than using a mod that adds in demo recording (or in this specific case, make demo recording actually usuable), they use an official patch to fix the demo recording and then use a mod to undo all the gameplay effects of that patch, thus producing the same effect as playing on a previous version with demo recording modded in.

There certainly [i]is[/i] a significant difference between this and simply modding the demo recording into the older version, especially since someone could reasonably raise the question of how we know that the patch didn't have some gameplay effect we don't know about besides the bunny hopping capping that the mods undo; clearly an undetected change made by an official patch - which could do pretty much anything - is more likely than an unintended change made by a mod whose sole purpose is to add in demo recording or a timer. However, the Half Life mod use is nowhere near the huge issue people make it out to be, and is only a small deviation from what SDA accepts in other games.

NMS

2009-10-21 01:51:32 pm

So the gameplay with HLSP Bunny is intended to be the same as an older version of the unmodded game? That makes more sense then.

nubonamission

Edit history:

nubonamission: 2009-11-04 07:23:28 am

2009-11-03 02:03:37 pm

I <3 speedruns

Oh man! Awesome, I can't wait to watch this... I will download IQ vid tomorrow and watch this. One of my favourite games ever, for sure. Really looking forward to seeing how you pulled this off. Can't believe I didn't spot this run already :O

Edit:

Awesome run! Really enjoyed it Grin

Thinkshooter

2009-11-05 05:27:32 pm

Runs: FCP, FC3, XWA, HD1-2, KotOR1-2

Glad you liked it man Smiley

Speedrunning a game is fun but feedback makes it worth it.

Thinkshooter

2009-12-20 04:00:41 am

Runs: FCP, FC3, XWA, HD1-2, KotOR1-2

I've just uploaded a 5-minute portion of my KotOR speedrun blooper video to Youtube. Here's the link.

Thinkshooter

Edit history:

Thinkshooter: 2010-05-02 06:25:40 pm

2010-02-27 03:21:28 pm

Runs: FCP, FC3, XWA, HD1-2, KotOR1-2

Hey everyone.

Just a note that I ended up changing my mind about the Kotor II run. While I still hate what the developers did to that game by rushing it out the door, I took that as an excuse to get it over with quickly...

(I wanted to speedrun something new but there wasn't enough interest in the games I wanted to run the most (Star Wars X-Wing Alliance, and the Hidden & Dangerous 2 "Sabre Squadron" add-on I mentioned here). So I ran some tests with KotOR II and found the savings in time might be sufficient to deserve a new run.)

You'll be able to check out the KotOR II Done Quick project progress here.

There, I played KotOR II for you so you don't have to!

audioflush

Edit history:

audioflush: 2013-10-19 10:20:18 am

2013-10-19 10:19:39 am

I have been thinking of picking this game up for speedrunning.

I've been doing practice runs and routing stuff lately and I would love to start streaming my attempts.
So I'm just asking here, and reviving this topic, is there people still running this game and would people wanna watch this game to be speedrunned?

Thinkshooter

2013-10-20 03:33:55 pm

Runs: FCP, FC3, XWA, HD1-2, KotOR1-2

I for one would gladly watch any KotOR-related speedrun. What kind did you have in mind (single or segmented, what difficulty) and which streaming service?

Good luck, and let us know if you get stuck - maybe people here can help; I'll certainly try.

RoaTheEternal

2013-10-20 07:35:37 pm

I too would watch KotoR runs. I have been working on routing the game (based mainly off of Thinkshooter's run) for a single-segment/RTA (normal dificulty) run myself (It's just really hard to find the time). I would also be willing to give any help I can.

audioflush

2013-10-21 06:06:29 am

I've been planning SS KotOR 1 and 2 runs mostly on Difficult and I was thinking some sort of co-operation with people who know/runs KotOR. At the moment my streaming would be a little bit random, since uni takes a big part of my time, but I would definitely like to stream my planning/running.
Guess I should start to setup my stream and plan my schedule a little bit. I'll definitely try start streaming as soon as possible.

My stream: http://www.twitch.tv/audioflush

Yourself

2013-10-24 02:22:55 pm

I'd enjoy watching a Kotor run.

audioflush

Edit history:

audioflush: 2013-10-25 06:51:28 am

audioflush: 2013-10-25 03:43:13 am

2013-10-25 01:25:20 am

So I just did one run off-stream in 2:46.34. It was light side run, with few dark side points.
I used Thinkshooter's Soldier/Guardian stats, and pretty much same items. I need to start doing some research about different item choices and possibly even Scout class since I would really wanna make Scout work in terms of speedrunning this game.
Run had a lot of mistakes and I didn't even have splits, so there is a lot of room for improvement.
I'll probably get my stream up early next week. I need to get splits and do few runs and probably do a little bit of theorycrafting. Hopefully I can stream all those things.
E: The run was on Normal, and I believe that future runs will be at normal too. Speedrunning on Difficult will take much more time, but I would love to run on difficult.
E2: I can probably save ~20min relatively easily off my run

LotBlind

2013-10-25 12:59:19 pm

Do you think scout could be accepted for a different category? If the differences were great enough? But are they I wonder. Dark side/light side is obvious because of different endings... Is there a neutral ending btw?

AlecK47

Edit history:

AlecK47: 2013-10-25 08:59:43 pm

2013-10-25 08:59:32 pm

If there's a neutral ending, I didn't get it. And I tried.

I see no reason that Scout would warrant another category. No reason you couldn't do it anyway, but it really doesn't change much. Your character build is important and all, but it doesn't fundamentally change the way you play the game.