Final Fantasy 1 - Segmented (Run Submitted!)

2011-06-20 03:25:58 pm

Quote:

What did you have in mind?

Ideally, I want a BM to make the Earth Cave go faster, cause I'll be able to cast Haste. The rest of the game should play out similarly to the run I have currently.

If the thief wasn't so terrible at fighting, I'd gladly use it for the 2 points it would be useful: running from 2xNightmare trap in Ordeals (because I get the heal staff). Unfortunately, that won't make up enough time to justify using a thief. If I did another 100% run (where there's at least 4 more spiked fights I must do), then it may be an option.

Also, since the BM dies so often, I can't really replace the RM with it. I could stick a WM in there (2xFi, BM, WM), but then my overall damage would decrease for 60% of the game. If Steel and Haste weren't so damn good, I'd dump the RM for a WM.

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The thing is that Level 16 would also enable me access to QAKE, which can then be used to one-shot Lich2 (at 24% probability). This potentially means doing the first part of the ToFR with all my characters, and using them against the Phantom as well. A whole world of possibilities.

Let's do some math here:
You need your BM to go first, of 4 possible characters. 25% (I think, I don't know if it's a linear chance for each character, despite how broken the turn order table is).
If Lich goes before you do, hope he does a physical attack. 25%
You need QAKE to hit. 24%

I don't like those odds. :x

Quote:

As it happens, HOLD has a 35% rate of success, and according to AstralEsper's FF Formulas (GameFAQs) enemies only have a ~10% chance (per turn) to recover from it. This means I wouldn't have to heal up before the fight. I'd just sit there at 1 hp, and gang-bang her. Also paralyzed enemies can't dodge hits and take 25% more damage. Yeah.

Is that number factoring in her stun weakness? In any case, that sounds like fun. ^_^

[quote]What did you have in mind?[/quote]
Ideally, I want a BM to make the Earth Cave go faster, cause I'll be able to cast Haste. The rest of the game should play out similarly to the run I have currently.

If the thief wasn't so terrible at fighting, I'd gladly use it for the 2 points it would be useful: running from 2xNightmare trap in Ordeals (because I get the heal staff). Unfortunately, that won't make up enough time to justify using a thief. If I did another 100% run (where there's at least 4 more spiked fights I must do), then it may be an option.

Also, since the BM dies so often, I can't really replace the RM with it. I could stick a WM in there (2xFi, BM, WM), but then my overall damage would decrease for 60% of the game. If Steel and Haste weren't so damn good, I'd dump the RM for a WM.

[quote]The thing is that Level 16 would also enable me access to QAKE, which can then be used to one-shot Lich2 (at 24% probability). This potentially means doing the first part of the ToFR with all my characters, and using them against the Phantom as well. A whole world of possibilities.[/quote]
Let's do some math here:
You need your BM to go first, of 4 possible characters. 25% (I think, I don't know if it's a linear chance for each character, despite how broken the turn order table is).
If Lich goes before you do, hope he does a physical attack. 25%
You need QAKE to hit. 24%

I don't like those odds. :x

[quote]As it happens, HOLD has a 35% rate of success, and according to AstralEsper's FF Formulas (GameFAQs) enemies only have a ~10% chance (per turn) to recover from it. This means I wouldn't have to heal up before the fight. I'd just sit there at 1 hp, and gang-bang her. Also paralyzed enemies can't dodge hits and take 25% more damage. Yeah.[/quote]
Is that number factoring in her stun weakness? In any case, that sounds like fun. ^_^

Winkwonle

2011-06-20 04:01:34 pm

Quote:

The rest of the game should play out similarly to the run I have currently.

Which reminds me that I want to see that run of yours. I never got the chance to see the one that you did that ended up being rejected. If you had it somewhere, I'd be really glad to put my hands on it. What I'm mostly interested in seeing though would be the one that you were last working on. You had posted an extract from your Ordeals segment some months ago. I thought it was nice having something tangible to reflect upon. If it's not too much trouble, would you be OK with uploading some segments from the important dungeons and/or boss fights on YouTube?

Quote:

If Steel and Haste weren't so damn good, I'd dump the RM for a WM.

No, I totally agree. The now-working Steel certainly is one of the best ones, along with the now-working Giant Gloves. Enough so in fact that the whole dynamics of the teams is affected by it. I'd be curious to see if these two make the Black Belt usable, even. After all, the damage increase is applied to all hits, so it basically reduces the situation to whatever character can deal the most of them.

Origins also lets you earn enormous amounts of gold very early in the game through the ship game. I wonder how that affects the planning for the Marsh Cave. Having a Silver Sword for your Fighter certainly changes matters. I'm really wondering which one of Origins or NES version leads to a faster run overall (running away being much easier on the NES, as I understand it).

Quote:

Let's do some math here:
You need your BM to go first, of 4 possible characters. 25% (I think, I don't know if it's a linear chance for each character, despite how broken the turn order table is).
If Lich goes before you do, hope he does a physical attack. 25%
You need QAKE to hit. 24%

I don't like those odds. :x

Well, I think you're making it a little more difficult that it really is. First, I don't need my BM to go first: the rest of the party would just run. Second, if Lich goes before me and doesn't NUKE, then it's alright. If he goes after me, then it's also alright. So, the situation I want to avoid has 1/2 (Lich goes first) * 3/4 (Lich uses NUKE) of happening, i.e. 37.5%, which leaves me with 24% * 62.5% = 15% of succeeding. That's not a whole lot, I agree, but it's not as bad as it sounds like from your analysis.

What would make it acceptable is that Lich2 is the first highly random element of the ToFR run, so resetting for it wouldn't waste luck from earlier bosses. What would make it unacceptable is that the first floors of the ToFR are the most nasty to set up for runnable-only encounters, so that would be a lot of time wasted.

[quote]The rest of the game should play out similarly to the run I have currently.[/quote]
Which reminds me that I want to see that run of yours. I never got the chance to see the one that you did that ended up being rejected. If you had it somewhere, I'd be really glad to put my hands on it. What I'm mostly interested in seeing though would be the one that you were last working on. You had posted an extract from your Ordeals segment some months ago. I thought it was nice having something tangible to reflect upon. If it's not too much trouble, would you be OK with uploading some segments from the important dungeons and/or boss fights on YouTube?

[quote]If Steel and Haste weren't so damn good, I'd dump the RM for a WM.[/quote]
No, I totally agree. The now-working Steel certainly is one of the best ones, along with the now-working Giant Gloves. Enough so in fact that the whole dynamics of the teams is affected by it. I'd be curious to see if these two make the Black Belt usable, even. After all, the damage increase is applied to all hits, so it basically reduces the situation to whatever character can deal the most of them.

Origins also lets you earn enormous amounts of gold very early in the game through the ship game. I wonder how that affects the planning for the Marsh Cave. Having a Silver Sword for your Fighter certainly changes matters. I'm really wondering which one of Origins or NES version leads to a faster run overall (running away being much easier on the NES, as I understand it).

[quote]Let's do some math here:
You need your BM to go first, of 4 possible characters. 25% (I think, I don't know if it's a linear chance for each character, despite how broken the turn order table is).
If Lich goes before you do, hope he does a physical attack. 25%
You need QAKE to hit. 24%

I don't like those odds. :x[/quote]
Well, I think you're making it a little more difficult that it really is. First, I don't need my BM to go first: the rest of the party would just run. Second, if Lich goes before me and doesn't NUKE, then it's alright. If he goes after me, then it's also alright. So, the situation I want to avoid has 1/2 (Lich goes first) * 3/4 (Lich uses NUKE) of happening, i.e. 37.5%, which leaves me with 24% * 62.5% = 15% of succeeding. That's not a whole lot, I agree, but it's not as bad as it sounds like from your analysis.

What would make it acceptable is that Lich2 is the first highly random element of the ToFR run, so resetting for it wouldn't waste luck from earlier bosses. What would make it unacceptable is that the first floors of the ToFR are the most nasty to set up for runnable-only encounters, so that would be a lot of time wasted.

Terribleno

2011-06-20 04:33:14 pm

Quote:

I never got the chance to see the one that you did that ended up being rejected.

You'll have to ask nate (he has the discs) or the verifiers that rejected it. I lost a good portion of my VOBs when my hard drive crashed on me prepping for JRDQ.

Quote:

What I'm mostly interested in seeing though would be the one that you were last working on.

This run? I can upload the whole run to Youtube, now that I think about it.

Quote:

Origins also lets you earn enormous amounts of gold very early in the game through the ship game. I wonder how that affects the planning for the Marsh Cave.

I used it in my run to get 40,000 gil, which allowed me full access to the Mithril (Silver) Swords, all level 3/4 spells, a full supply of potions, enough antidotes (far too many), and then throw in a few tents (CABIN) and cottages (HOUSE) for good measure. Quite worth it. Wink

Quote:

I'd be curious to see if these two make the Black Belt usable, even.

I'm levels 22 and 23 (on easy mode, mind you) entering ToFR, and since it's 3% gain class change or no, the Black Belt should have 71% accuracy, if my math is right. I'm 27 and 28 when I get to Chaos. That should put the accuracy at 86%, which is still outside 4-hit range. Looking at the numbers, a Black Belt would be a viable member for an updated run...

Quote:

Well, I think you're making it a little more difficult that it really is.

I blame the game. Tongue

[quote]I never got the chance to see the one that you did that ended up being rejected.[/quote]
You'll have to ask nate (he has the discs) or the verifiers that rejected it. I lost a good portion of my VOBs when my hard drive crashed on me prepping for JRDQ.

[quote]What I'm mostly interested in seeing though would be the one that you were last working on.[/quote]
[url=http://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/final_fantasy_origins__march_27th_2011.html]This run[/url]? I can upload the whole run to Youtube, now that I think about it.

[quote]Origins also lets you earn enormous amounts of gold very early in the game through the ship game. I wonder how that affects the planning for the Marsh Cave.[/quote]
I used it in my run to get 40,000 gil, which allowed me full access to the Mithril (Silver) Swords, all level 3/4 spells, a full supply of potions, enough antidotes (far too many), and then throw in a few tents (CABIN) and cottages (HOUSE) for good measure. Quite worth it. ;)

[quote]I'd be curious to see if these two make the Black Belt usable, even.[/quote]
I'm levels 22 and 23 (on easy mode, mind you) entering ToFR, and since it's 3% gain class change or no, the Black Belt should have 71% accuracy, if my math is right. I'm 27 and 28 when I get to Chaos. That should put the accuracy at 86%, which is still outside 4-hit range. Looking at the numbers, a Black Belt would be a viable member for an updated run...

[quote]Well, I think you're making it a little more difficult that it really is.[/quote]
I blame the game. :P

Winkwonle

2011-06-20 05:05:34 pm

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You'll have to ask nate

Hmm, I'll just forget it then, I think.

Quote:

This run?

!!
I honestly didn't know about that, and I was looking for similar threads regularly. Do you have any idea how much time it will be until it is up on the site?

I didn't see an indication of how much time the run takes. Is it sub 2:30?

Quote:

I used it in my run to get 40,000 gil, which allowed me full access to the Mithril (Silver) Swords, all level 3/4 spells, a full supply of potions, enough antidotes (far too many), and then throw in a few tents (CABIN) and cottages (HOUSE) for good measure. Quite worth it. Wink

Oh, my. That's SO unfair. And on easy mode, you probably had enough levels to cast these spells too. Roll Eyes

It's like it's not the same game.

Quote:

That should put the accuracy at 86%, which is still outside 4-hit range.

You mean outside the 8-hit range. You'd have a solid 6-hit crit machine. Because starting at Level 20, the Black Belt has the highest critical-hit rate too. Oh, yeah, definitely a Black Belt is better than a third Fighter in that easy-mode context. I don't know what would be the effect of truncating your second Fighter, though, if you were originally looking for a party with only two Fighters. It may still be worth it. I'm not all that familiar with Origins.

[quote]You'll have to ask nate[/quote]
Hmm, I'll just forget it then, I think.

[quote]This run?[/quote]
!!
I honestly didn't know about that, and I [i]was[/i] looking for similar threads regularly. Do you have any idea how much time it will be until it is up on the site?

I didn't see an indication of how much time the run takes. Is it sub 2:30?

[quote]I used it in my run to get 40,000 gil, which allowed me full access to the Mithril (Silver) Swords, all level 3/4 spells, a full supply of potions, enough antidotes (far too many), and then throw in a few tents (CABIN) and cottages (HOUSE) for good measure. Quite worth it. Wink[/quote]
Oh, my. That's SO unfair. And on easy mode, you probably had enough levels to cast these spells too. ::)
It's like it's not the same game.

[quote]That should put the accuracy at 86%, which is still outside 4-hit range.[/quote]
You mean outside the 8-hit range. You'd have a solid 6-hit crit machine. Because starting at Level 20, the Black Belt has the highest critical-hit rate too. Oh, yeah, definitely a Black Belt is better than a third Fighter in that easy-mode context. I don't know what would be the effect of truncating your second Fighter, though, if you were originally looking for a party with only two Fighters. It may still be worth it. I'm not all that familiar with Origins.

Terribleno

2011-06-20 05:37:23 pm

Quote:

Do you have any idea how much time it will be until it is up on the site?

The average is 6 months from verified to posted, and since the site is speedrunning the posting, I'll guess November. Tongue

Nah, but it's been 3 months now, so it shouldn't be that far off. I anticipated it taking it as long as it has, and I uploaded the run to my site for the time being.

Quote:

Is it sub 2:30?

I wish. The time at the post-game save is 3:07 (ending takes 10 minutes, otherwise it would be 2:57). My improvement will get sub-3 hours, I guarantee it.

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Oh, my. That's SO unfair.

You have no idea. ^_^

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And on easy mode, you probably had enough levels to cast these spells too.

Actually, I'm in LLG mode until I hit the ice cave, so everyone is level 4 entering the Marsh Cave. I wanted 4 so I can get into 2-hit range with the Mithril Swords equipped, and that was not an easy task.

Quote:

It's like it's not the same game.

Yes and no. Origins did keep the difficulty of the original NES title, with the added bonus of an easy difficulty to help break players in. Rest assured, I'll be doing another normal difficulty run to rectify that earlier rejection.

Quote:

Because starting at Level 20, the Black Belt has the highest critical-hit rate too. Oh, yeah, definitely a Black Belt is better than a third Fighter in that easy-mode context.

Probably on normal-mode context, too. Fighter, Fighter, Black Belt, Black Mage?

Quote:

I don't know what would be the effect of truncating your second Fighter, though, if you were originally looking for a party with only two Fighters.

Considering that Steel is stackable, only one fighter per battle gets the buff. The other two are there to do some damage to help end the battle quicker (Lich in segment 11, for example).

Quote:

It may still be worth it. I'm not all that familiar with Origins.

Take the original NES version, spruce up the graphics and music, fix a few bugs, double the HP of every boss, add in a run button (which you can disable), and you have Origins.

[quote]Do you have any idea how much time it will be until it is up on the site?[/quote]
The average is 6 months from verified to posted, and since the site is speedrunning the posting, I'll guess November. :P Nah, but it's been 3 months now, so it shouldn't be that far off. I anticipated it taking it as long as it has, and I uploaded the run to [url=http://slickproductions.org/speed.php]my site[/url] for the time being.

[quote]Is it sub 2:30?[/quote]
I wish. The time at the post-game save is 3:07 (ending takes 10 minutes, otherwise it would be 2:57). My improvement will get sub-3 hours, I guarantee it.

[quote]Oh, my. That's SO unfair.[/quote]
You have no idea. ^_^

[quote]And on easy mode, you probably had enough levels to cast these spells too.[/quote]
Actually, I'm in LLG mode until I hit the ice cave, so everyone is level 4 entering the Marsh Cave. I wanted 4 so I can get into 2-hit range with the Mithril Swords equipped, and that was not an easy task.

[quote]It's like it's not the same game.[/quote]
Yes and no. Origins did keep the difficulty of the original NES title, with the added bonus of an easy difficulty to help break players in. Rest assured, I'll be doing another normal difficulty run to rectify that earlier rejection.

[quote]Because starting at Level 20, the Black Belt has the highest critical-hit rate too. Oh, yeah, definitely a Black Belt is better than a third Fighter in that easy-mode context.[/quote]
Probably on normal-mode context, too. Fighter, Fighter, Black Belt, Black Mage?

[quote]I don't know what would be the effect of truncating your second Fighter, though, if you were originally looking for a party with only two Fighters.[/quote]
Considering that Steel is stackable, only one fighter per battle gets the buff. The other two are there to do [i]some[/i] damage to help end the battle quicker (Lich in segment 11, for example).

[quote]It may still be worth it. I'm not all that familiar with Origins.[/quote]
Take the original NES version, spruce up the graphics and music, fix a few bugs, double the HP of every boss, add in a run button (which you can disable), and you have Origins.

Winkwonle

2011-06-21 07:49:28 am

Quote:

I uploaded the run to my site for the time being.

Nice! I've watched it yesterday and in part this morning, and I took a few notes if you're interested.
- A lot more random encounters on the world map
- Cut scenes take up some of your time and don't exist on the NES version
- Tents or other means of saving outside have a fluffy animation that makes them take up 15 seconds or so. On the NES version, Tent saving + Reset + start walking again = 1 second. That alone may be enough to make the NES version faster than Origins, even Easy Mode.
- The Wizard battle takes you 30-ish seconds, instead of the 1 minute 30 that I normally allocate for it
- Dashing is very nice. I'd be curious to know what the ratio between NES walking and Origins dashing speed is.
- Shopping goes a lot faster
- Back-row characters run well. That makes a major difference in team design, because normally the Black Mage is the only non-Thief that can run OK, and he can't steadily occupy second row.
- Time is 26 minutes after beating Astos. That's impressive.
- I get the impression that your chances of running are better than they'd be on the NES. Maybe it's just because you redid your segments until you got good running, I don't know.
- You do all single-enemy battles because it's faster than running. Interesting. That's not the case at all on the NES.
- Some of the paths inside dungeons are a little different in your run than in mine (the single-segment, that is) due to small variations in the maps.
- The Vampire resisted your FIR2. Strange.
- Both the Red Gargoyles and the Rakshasahs (or whatever, MANCAT) consistently started with FIRE instead of FIR2.
- You do a lot of battles in Ordeals and the Ice Cave, not all of which are non-runnable, and all of which certainly give less experience than the EYEs that you later fight anyway.
- The EYE starts with LIT2?! Does that change the dynamics of grinding against it 1) from a lower level and 2) for a longer amount of time?
- You go through Gaia to get the OXYALE, pass in front of the Clinic there, and then go out of your way to revive your characters at Coneria. You also pick up CURE for your Knights while you're there. Was that necessary?
- You visit Elfland solely for buying CUR2 for the Knights. Again, is that useful?
- You do all the spiked square battles, even though most of them are runnable. Are they non-runnable in Origins, or is there a particular reason for that?
- It's nice having the Giant's Glove. Could you remind me how much of a boost it gives compared to Steel?
- You don't use WARP in Lefein.
- You don't pick up Aegis Shield, yet your front Knight (without Ribbon) seems to resist Poison/Stone elemental. Have they changed the elemental resistance of ProRing or Dragon Armor?
- I saw you pick up the second Opal Shield in the Sky Castle, but I didn't see you equip it. Maybe I just missed it.
- You pick up Black and White Shirts but you never use Black Shirt. Also, when you do use White Shirt, it doesn't seem all that much useful. Then again of course, the only video I see is the one where everything goes right. That, I understand.
- I was surprised to see characters with Ribbon resist Sorcerers' (Piscodemons) TRANCE ability. Is it perhaps time-elemental in Origins?
- Before entering the ToFR, you inn at Coneria, but then you tent outside the temple too. You should have just used a House (Cottage?), right?
- You're not using your Black Shirt, but rather casting ICE2 on those Gas D, and later on on the Waters. This seems like reason enough to skip the Shirt, unless you'd be using it with a Knight in tandem with the Red Mage's ICE2.
- The battle against the PHANTOM was impressive.
- It's a pity you couldn't grab LIT3 on your way to the canoe, knowing that you'd end up high-level enough to use it soon enough. Unfortunately the RM can't use it and I agree with your not backtracking just for that.
- Man, that's a lot of non-runnable encounters in the ToFR. Would there have been any way to ease on that?
- Received a standard-strength NUKE from Lich2. It's nice to see that your party handled it stoically.
- Dubious use of the Heal Staff after Lich2, at least in my opinion.
- You confront Kraken2 with half your health, but you do know you'll have to heal up to full anyway before Chaos. What's the reasoning there?
- You fight a group of Airs, but normally (NES) they're runnable.
- You're way overpowered at Chaos. That's a bad sign. Probably you should have been doing less battles to get there.
- In general, one Fighter/Knight was doing 90% of the damage against bosses. Also, fighting with the Red Mage never did any useful difference.

Quote:

Fighter, Fighter, Black Belt, Black Mage?

I know I said Fighter+Black Mage is imperative for the NES version, but I'm not all that sure for Origins, least of all for Easy Mode. The main reason to use a Black Mage is to get WARP at Level 12 instead of 15. This alone saves something like 10 minutes, because while Level 12 is within reasonable reach after having just class changed, Level 15 requires for you to really take some time to focus on leveling-up. In Origins Easy Mode though, leveling-up is kind of a joke, and spell charges are increased by a significant amount. It seems that your RM alone managed without problem all the need in magic for the entire team.

Another reason to get a Black Mage is for FIR2/LIT2 charges at Level 5, either for the Wizards or for the PNEOP. However, the Ship mini-game makes that part of the game very different, even on Origins Normal Mode. Having the Silver Swords makes the Wizards much easier and one of the main reasons to visit the PNEOP normally is to meet the money problems that come before tackling the Earth Cave.

It seems like your run has pretty optimal time for all the pre- class change part of the game. Or before the Ice Cave, let's say. After that, you still get very good performance against non-runnable encounters, but start getting a little slower on bosses since you only have the one Red Mage to cast Steel. I'd say you should have a party with some combination of two mages and two fighters, so that you can get to your full potential.

Maybe the Black Belt is a little too slow for the beginning of the game, I don't know. It would be useful to do some tests on that. Also, I'm not sure how useful the Knights are for tanking in the front rows, but I'm imagining they are quite so. I'm currently tending towards a more standard party of Fighter, Fighter, Red Mage, * for the case of Origins Easy Mode. Probably * would be one of Red Mage, Black Mage, or even Thief. Once the Ninja starts having spell charges, he really becomes a decent second Red Mage, and for the earlier part of the game it might help you with running a little.

[quote]I uploaded the run to my site for the time being.[/quote]
Nice! I've watched it yesterday and in part this morning, and I took a few notes if you're interested.
- A lot more random encounters on the world map
- Cut scenes take up some of your time and don't exist on the NES version
- Tents or other means of saving outside have a fluffy animation that makes them take up 15 seconds or so. On the NES version, Tent saving + Reset + start walking again = 1 second. That alone may be enough to make the NES version faster than Origins, even Easy Mode.
- The Wizard battle takes you 30-ish seconds, instead of the 1 minute 30 that I normally allocate for it
- Dashing is very nice. I'd be curious to know what the ratio between NES walking and Origins dashing speed is.
- Shopping goes a lot faster
- Back-row characters run well. That makes a major difference in team design, because normally the Black Mage is the only non-Thief that can run OK, and he can't steadily occupy second row.
- Time is 26 minutes after beating Astos. That's impressive.
- I get the impression that your chances of running are better than they'd be on the NES. Maybe it's just because you redid your segments until you got good running, I don't know.
- You do all single-enemy battles because it's faster than running. Interesting. That's not the case at all on the NES.
- Some of the paths inside dungeons are a little different in your run than in mine (the single-segment, that is) due to small variations in the maps.
- The Vampire resisted your FIR2. Strange.
- Both the Red Gargoyles and the Rakshasahs (or whatever, MANCAT) consistently started with FIRE instead of FIR2.
- You do a lot of battles in Ordeals and the Ice Cave, not all of which are non-runnable, and all of which certainly give less experience than the EYEs that you later fight anyway.
- The EYE starts with LIT2?! Does that change the dynamics of grinding against it 1) from a lower level and 2) for a longer amount of time?
- You go through Gaia to get the OXYALE, pass in front of the Clinic there, and then go out of your way to revive your characters at Coneria. You also pick up CURE for your Knights while you're there. Was that necessary?
- You visit Elfland solely for buying CUR2 for the Knights. Again, is that useful?
- You do all the spiked square battles, even though most of them are runnable. Are they non-runnable in Origins, or is there a particular reason for that?
- It's nice having the Giant's Glove. Could you remind me how much of a boost it gives compared to Steel?
- You don't use WARP in Lefein.
- You don't pick up Aegis Shield, yet your front Knight (without Ribbon) seems to resist Poison/Stone elemental. Have they changed the elemental resistance of ProRing or Dragon Armor?
- I saw you pick up the second Opal Shield in the Sky Castle, but I didn't see you equip it. Maybe I just missed it.
- You pick up Black and White Shirts but you never use Black Shirt. Also, when you do use White Shirt, it doesn't seem all that much useful. Then again of course, the only video I see is the one where everything goes right. That, I understand.
- I was surprised to see characters with Ribbon resist Sorcerers' (Piscodemons) TRANCE ability. Is it perhaps time-elemental in Origins?
- Before entering the ToFR, you inn at Coneria, but then you tent outside the temple too. You should have just used a House (Cottage?), right?
- You're not using your Black Shirt, but rather casting ICE2 on those Gas D, and later on on the Waters. This seems like reason enough to skip the Shirt, unless you'd be using it with a Knight in tandem with the Red Mage's ICE2.
- The battle against the PHANTOM was impressive.
- It's a pity you couldn't grab LIT3 on your way to the canoe, knowing that you'd end up high-level enough to use it soon enough. Unfortunately the RM can't use it and I agree with your not backtracking just for that.
- Man, that's a lot of non-runnable encounters in the ToFR. Would there have been any way to ease on that?
- Received a standard-strength NUKE from Lich2. It's nice to see that your party handled it stoically.
- Dubious use of the Heal Staff after Lich2, at least in my opinion.
- You confront Kraken2 with half your health, but you do know you'll have to heal up to full anyway before Chaos. What's the reasoning there?
- You fight a group of Airs, but normally (NES) they're runnable.
- You're way overpowered at Chaos. That's a bad sign. Probably you should have been doing less battles to get there.
- In general, one Fighter/Knight was doing 90% of the damage against bosses. Also, fighting with the Red Mage never did any useful difference.

[quote]Fighter, Fighter, Black Belt, Black Mage?[/quote]
I know I said Fighter+Black Mage is imperative for the NES version, but I'm not all that sure for Origins, least of all for Easy Mode. The main reason to use a Black Mage is to get WARP at Level 12 instead of 15. This alone saves something like 10 minutes, because while Level 12 is within reasonable reach after having just class changed, Level 15 requires for you to really take some time to focus on leveling-up. In Origins Easy Mode though, leveling-up is kind of a joke, and spell charges are increased by a significant amount. It seems that your RM alone managed without problem all the need in magic for the entire team.

Another reason to get a Black Mage is for FIR2/LIT2 charges at Level 5, either for the Wizards or for the PNEOP. However, the Ship mini-game makes that part of the game very different, even on Origins Normal Mode. Having the Silver Swords makes the Wizards much easier and one of the main reasons to visit the PNEOP normally is to meet the money problems that come before tackling the Earth Cave.

It seems like your run has pretty optimal time for all the pre- class change part of the game. Or before the Ice Cave, let's say. After that, you still get very good performance against non-runnable encounters, but start getting a little slower on bosses since you only have the one Red Mage to cast Steel. I'd say you should have a party with some combination of two mages and two fighters, so that you can get to your full potential.

Maybe the Black Belt is a little too slow for the beginning of the game, I don't know. It would be useful to do some tests on that. Also, I'm not sure how useful the Knights are for tanking in the front rows, but I'm imagining they are quite so. I'm currently tending towards a more standard party of Fighter, Fighter, Red Mage, * for the case of Origins Easy Mode. Probably * would be one of Red Mage, Black Mage, or even Thief. Once the Ninja starts having spell charges, he really becomes a decent second Red Mage, and for the earlier part of the game it might help you with running a little.

Terribleno

2011-06-21 09:04:39 am

Quote:

- A lot more random encounters on the world map

In my memosave run, I was lucky to get 10-12 steps before a battle hit me. I wish the odds were better here. I suspect a dynamic of battle encounter was tweaked for Origins (still doesn't change the fact that you can SS the game with 0 random battles though).

Quote:

- I get the impression that your chances of running are better than they'd be on the NES.

That's weird, because I suspect they are worse. =\

Quote:

Maybe it's just because you redid your segments until you got good running, I don't know.

^_^

Quote:

- The Vampire resisted your FIR2. Strange.

Bad variance in this one instance.

Quote:

- Both the Red Gargoyles and the Rakshasahs (or whatever, MANCAT) consistently started with FIRE instead of FIR2.

Some AIs were changed (notably R.Goyle/MANCAT, Evil Eye, and Mage) to make things easier, though in the Mage's case they're harder.

Quote:

- You go through Gaia to get the OXYALE, pass in front of the Clinic there, and then go out of your way to revive your characters at Coneria.

Muscle memory to not visit later-area Clinics, cause they cost an arm and a leg to revive people. However, because I was also going to Coneria...

Quote:

You also pick up CURE for your Knights while you're there. Was that necessary?
- You visit Elfland solely for buying CUR2 for the Knights. Again, is that useful?

...They get healing solely for the ToFR.

Quote:

- It's nice having the Giant's Glove. Could you remind me how much of a boost it gives compared to Steel?

If the data hasn't changed (and I suspect it hasn't), Steel gives 14 points, Saber gives 16 points. Not great, but the way I've been looking at it is two casts per turn instead of one.

Quote:

- You don't use WARP in Lefein.

I'll be honest, until I saw you do it in your run, I never thought to use Warp in a town. :s

Quote:

- I saw you pick up the second Opal Shield in the Sky Castle, but I didn't see you equip it. Maybe I just missed it.

Nope, you didn't. I spaced it out because I didn't want to unequip the Ribbon then have to go and equip it again.

Quote:

- You pick up Black and White Shirts but you never use Black Shirt. Also, when you do use White Shirt, it doesn't seem all that much useful. Then again of course, the only video I see is the one where everything goes right. That, I understand.

When I was casting Ice2, I did forget I had the black shirt, something I realized on Kraken's floor of the ToFR.

Quote:

- Before entering the ToFR, you inn at Coneria, but then you tent outside the temple too. You should have just used a House (Cottage?), right?

If I had one, yes. That's the mistake my comments mention. I accidentally used my last cottage after Tiamat. Sad

Quote:

- Man, that's a lot of non-runnable encounters in the ToFR. Would there have been any way to ease on that?

Hope for the best. Sad

dn is convinced that Origins still uses a battle table manipulatable as the NES's is, but I'm not sure it's the case with Origins, or any of the later ports.

Quote:

- Dubious use of the Heal Staff after Lich2, at least in my opinion.

Having a WW to cast ~~Hel2~~ Heal3 would've definitely helped, that's for sure.

Quote:

- You confront Kraken2 with half your health, but you do know you'll have to heal up to full anyway before Chaos. What's the reasoning there?

Usually bravery and bold chances backfire, but I took a chance that Kraken would stick to Ink and Bolt2. I also wanted to keep my menu time as low as possible in all scenarios while giving me a realistic chance of victory. It's very hard to judge in some cases. :s

Quote:

- You fight a group of Airs, but normally (NES) they're runnable.

And they are still runnable here, but with my luck of not running, I didn't want to take a chance of not succeeding this deep into the temple.

Quote:

- You do a lot of battles in Ordeals and the Ice Cave, not all of which are non-runnable, and all of which certainly give less experience than the EYEs that you later fight anyway.

Oh, how I wish you could have seen my failed attempts in those two areas. When the time comes to improve this, I'll be streaming my attempts. Smiley

Quote:

It seems that your RM alone managed without problem all the need in magic for the entire team.

As you may have realized, the biggest problem is getting that crucial charge before a certain area (level 5 point before the Waterfall, etc).

Quote:

It seems like your run has pretty optimal time for all the pre- class change part of the game. Or before the Ice Cave, let's say. After that, you still get very good performance against non-runnable encounters, but start getting a little slower on bosses since you only have the one Red Mage to cast Steel. I'd say you should have a party with some combination of two mages and two fighters, so that you can get to your full potential.

Fighter, *, Black Mage, *. That's about all I can decide on with certainty.

[quote]- A lot more random encounters on the world map[/quote]
In my memosave run, I was lucky to get 10-12 steps before a battle hit me. I wish the odds were better here. I suspect a dynamic of battle encounter was tweaked for Origins (still doesn't change the fact that you can SS the game with 0 random battles though).

[quote]- I get the impression that your chances of running are better than they'd be on the NES.[/quote]
That's weird, because I suspect they are worse. =\

[quote]Maybe it's just because you redid your segments until you got good running, I don't know.[/quote]
^_^

[quote]- The Vampire resisted your FIR2. Strange.[/quote]
Bad variance in this one instance.

[quote]- Both the Red Gargoyles and the Rakshasahs (or whatever, MANCAT) consistently started with FIRE instead of FIR2.[/quote]
Some AIs were changed (notably R.Goyle/MANCAT, Evil Eye, and Mage) to make things easier, though in the Mage's case they're harder.

[quote]- You go through Gaia to get the OXYALE, pass in front of the Clinic there, and then go out of your way to revive your characters at Coneria.[/quote]
Muscle memory to not visit later-area Clinics, cause they cost an arm and a leg to revive people. However, because I was also going to Coneria...

[quote]You also pick up CURE for your Knights while you're there. Was that necessary?
- You visit Elfland solely for buying CUR2 for the Knights. Again, is that useful?[/quote]
...They get healing solely for the ToFR.

[quote]- It's nice having the Giant's Glove. Could you remind me how much of a boost it gives compared to Steel?[/quote]
If the data hasn't changed (and I suspect it hasn't), Steel gives 14 points, Saber gives 16 points. Not great, but the way I've been looking at it is two casts per turn instead of one.

[quote]- You don't use WARP in Lefein.[/quote]
I'll be honest, until I saw you do it in your run, I never thought to use Warp in a town. :s

[quote]- I saw you pick up the second Opal Shield in the Sky Castle, but I didn't see you equip it. Maybe I just missed it.[/quote]
Nope, you didn't. I spaced it out because I didn't want to unequip the Ribbon then have to go and equip it again.

[quote]- You pick up Black and White Shirts but you never use Black Shirt. Also, when you do use White Shirt, it doesn't seem all that much useful. Then again of course, the only video I see is the one where everything goes right. That, I understand.[/quote]
When I was casting Ice2, I did forget I had the black shirt, something I realized on Kraken's floor of the ToFR.

[quote]- Before entering the ToFR, you inn at Coneria, but then you tent outside the temple too. You should have just used a House (Cottage?), right?[/quote]
If I had one, yes. That's the mistake my comments mention. I accidentally used my last cottage after Tiamat. :(

[quote]- Man, that's a lot of non-runnable encounters in the ToFR. Would there have been any way to ease on that?[/quote]
Hope for the best. :( dn is convinced that Origins still uses a battle table manipulatable as the NES's is, but I'm not sure it's the case with Origins, or any of the later ports.

[quote]- Dubious use of the Heal Staff after Lich2, at least in my opinion.[/quote]
Having a WW to cast [s]Hel2[/s] Heal3 would've definitely helped, that's for sure.

[quote]- You confront Kraken2 with half your health, but you do know you'll have to heal up to full anyway before Chaos. What's the reasoning there?[/quote]
Usually bravery and bold chances backfire, but I took a chance that Kraken would stick to Ink and Bolt2. I also wanted to keep my menu time as low as possible in all scenarios while giving me a realistic chance of victory. It's very hard to judge in some cases. :s

[quote]- You fight a group of Airs, but normally (NES) they're runnable.[/quote]
And they are still runnable here, but with my luck of not running, I didn't want to take a chance of not succeeding this deep into the temple.

[quote]- You do a lot of battles in Ordeals and the Ice Cave, not all of which are non-runnable, and all of which certainly give less experience than the EYEs that you later fight anyway.[/quote]
Oh, how I wish you could have seen my failed attempts in those two areas. When the time comes to improve this, I'll be streaming my attempts. :)

[quote]It seems that your RM alone managed without problem all the need in magic for the entire team.[/quote]
As you may have realized, the biggest problem is getting that crucial charge before a certain area (level 5 point before the Waterfall, etc).

[quote]It seems like your run has pretty optimal time for all the pre- class change part of the game. Or before the Ice Cave, let's say. After that, you still get very good performance against non-runnable encounters, but start getting a little slower on bosses since you only have the one Red Mage to cast Steel. I'd say you should have a party with some combination of two mages and two fighters, so that you can get to your full potential.[/quote]
Fighter, *, Black Mage, *. That's about all I can decide on with certainty.

Winkwonle

Edit history:

Winkwonle: 2011-06-21 11:41:06 am

Winkwonle: 2011-06-21 11:26:05 am

2011-06-21 10:13:17 am

Quote:

When I was casting Ice2, I did forget I had the black shirt, something I realized on Kraken's floor of the ToFR.

Do you have any comment on what I was saying though? Do you believe it's useful to even have the shirt, or that you should have been using it with a Knight while the Red Mage was casting ICE2?

Quote:

dn is convinced that Origins still uses a battle table manipulatable as the NES's is, but I'm not sure it's the case with Origins

Note: before attempting anything new, it would be very important to find out about this. This is not a minor detail.

Quote:

Having a WW to cast Hel2 Heal3 would've definitely helped, that's for sure.

True. I was particularly fond of HEL2 in my run for healing up rapidly and complementing the houses' 120 hp boost. The Gurgu section was a good example of where it helped hugely.

Quote:

I also wanted to keep my menu time as low as possible in all scenarios while giving me a realistic chance of victory.

But you still had to heal up to full before Chaos. You didn't save any time by delaying, in fact, right? Unless you're saying you as a person didn't want to waste time in the menu knowing that it was very possible that you wouldn't make it to Chaos this time around.

Quote:

Oh, how I wish you could have seen my failed attempts in those two areas. When the time comes to improve this, I'll be streaming my attempts.

I believe you, friend, I believe you. And I will be watching, most likely. Do tell us ahead of time before starting to stream, if possible. I had some trouble trying to follow PJ's 7th Saga streaming last year because he didn't advertise it enough.

Quote:

As you may have realized, the biggest problem is getting that crucial charge before a certain area (level 5 point before the Waterfall, etc).

Even in Easy Mode? How much EXP does it cost to get to Level 15? I'm worried that a Black Mage wouldn't give you all those healing charges upon which you depended so much in the ToFR. I definitely agree that the lower levels for spell charges is the issue at hand here, nevertheless.

Quote:

Fighter, *, Black Mage, *. That's about all I can decide on with certainty.

It seems that we're in the same boat then.

I'm currently analyzing further into the idea of using HOLD against Kary2. That would make me want to put three black magic users in the team if possible. Again I'm trying to figure out if it's worth it to pick up Xcalber in a team with just one Fighter. By the way I find it unfortunate that you can only work with Origins ultimately (which I don't own); I'm worried that this thread may not be going anywhere.

As a side note, some of my FF1 time goes into working on a little program I'm doing to help me design routes quick and easy. It checks money and item slots automatically and it tells me on which encounters my levels go up. It's not very user friendly, but I intend to make it so one day and give a link (it's in the form of a web page), in case anyone's willing to get their hands dirty and try to help.

[quote]When I was casting Ice2, I did forget I had the black shirt, something I realized on Kraken's floor of the ToFR.[/quote]
Do you have any comment on what I was saying though? Do you believe it's useful to even have the shirt, or that you should have been using it with a Knight while the Red Mage was casting ICE2?

[quote]dn is convinced that Origins still uses a battle table manipulatable as the NES's is, but I'm not sure it's the case with Origins[/quote]
Note: before attempting anything new, it would be very important to find out about this. This is [i]not[/i] a minor detail.

[quote]Having a WW to cast Hel2 Heal3 would've definitely helped, that's for sure.[/quote]
True. I was particularly fond of HEL2 in my run for healing up rapidly and complementing the houses' 120 hp boost. The Gurgu section was a good example of where it helped hugely.

[quote]I also wanted to keep my menu time as low as possible in all scenarios while giving me a realistic chance of victory.[/quote]
But you still had to heal up to full before Chaos. You didn't save any time by delaying, in fact, right? Unless you're saying you as a person didn't want to waste time in the menu knowing that it was very possible that you wouldn't make it to Chaos this time around.

[quote]Oh, how I wish you could have seen my failed attempts in those two areas. When the time comes to improve this, I'll be streaming my attempts.[/quote]
I believe you, friend, I believe you. And I will be watching, most likely. Do tell us ahead of time before starting to stream, if possible. I had some trouble trying to follow PJ's 7th Saga streaming last year because he didn't advertise it enough.

[quote]As you may have realized, the biggest problem is getting that crucial charge before a certain area (level 5 point before the Waterfall, etc).[/quote]
Even in Easy Mode? How much EXP does it cost to get to Level 15? I'm worried that a Black Mage wouldn't give you all those healing charges upon which you depended so much in the ToFR. I definitely agree that the lower levels for spell charges is the issue at hand here, nevertheless.

[quote]Fighter, *, Black Mage, *. That's about all I can decide on with certainty.[/quote]
:)
It seems that we're in the same boat then.

I'm currently analyzing further into the idea of using HOLD against Kary2. That would make me want to put three black magic users in the team if possible. Again I'm trying to figure out if it's worth it to pick up Xcalber in a team with just one Fighter. By the way I find it unfortunate that you can only work with Origins ultimately (which I don't own); I'm worried that this thread may not be going anywhere.

As a side note, some of my FF1 time goes into working on a little program I'm doing to help me design routes quick and easy. It checks money and item slots automatically and it tells me on which encounters my levels go up. It's not very user friendly, but I intend to make it so one day and give a link (it's in the form of a web page), in case anyone's willing to get their hands dirty and try to help.

Terribleno

2011-06-21 04:35:05 pm

Quote:

Do you have any comment on what I was saying though? Do you believe it's useful to even have the shirt, or that you should have been using it with a Knight while the Red Mage was casting ICE2?

It's useful to have the shirt, cause it's a free cast and in the water floor you'll most likely need it. It goes well with the (Zeus) Gauntlets or Thor's Hammer.

Quote:

But you still had to heal up to full before Chaos. You didn't save any time by delaying, in fact, right?

Depends on how you look at it. If I fully healed up before Kraken, for example, but everyone lost 300 HP, then that's 1200 more HP to heal before Chaos. In this case, I had to heal up about 1500 total HP, but banked on only needing to do so much of it before Kraken. It's the same time spent either way, but it would've looked worse had I taken no damage between Kraken and Chaos.

Quote:

By the way I find it unfortunate that you can only work with Origins ultimately (which I don't own)

Someone want to donate a battery replacement or a cart? ^_^ (kidding, in case anyone takes that seriously)

[quote]Do you have any comment on what I was saying though? Do you believe it's useful to even have the shirt, or that you should have been using it with a Knight while the Red Mage was casting ICE2?[/quote]
It's useful to have the shirt, cause it's a free cast and in the water floor you'll most likely need it. It goes well with the (Zeus) Gauntlets or Thor's Hammer.

[quote]But you still had to heal up to full before Chaos. You didn't save any time by delaying, in fact, right?[/quote]
Depends on how you look at it. If I fully healed up before Kraken, for example, but everyone lost 300 HP, then that's 1200 more HP to heal before Chaos. In this case, I had to heal up about 1500 total HP, but banked on only needing to do so much of it before Kraken. It's the same time spent either way, but it would've looked worse had I taken no damage between Kraken and Chaos.

[quote]By the way I find it unfortunate that you can only work with Origins ultimately (which I don't own)[/quote]
Someone want to donate a battery replacement or a cart? ^_^ (kidding, in case anyone takes that seriously)

WarMech

2011-06-21 04:38:15 pm

Glad to see the old thread has picked up some life! I haven't fallen off the face of the Earth yet, but changes in my life have notably reduced my hours of speedrunning to just a few per month. I've completed 68 out of 90 segments and am sitting outside of the Ice Cave in what has proven to be the most painful part of the game yet. After 400-500 resets on this segment alone, it's been a tough road, but the goods news is that I'm over 12 minutes ahead of my target time at this point in the game and am at 66 minutes ... which would equate to a final time of ~2:38 if I didn't shave a single second off the rest of the run (unlikely). I'll complete this one, but the timing is very up in the air!

However, I welcome the thought of competition, especially if it would involved a radically party! I like your thoughts so far but would caution you not to get your hopes up with the emulator tests since it's easy to assume something will work nicely when you're playing it step by step, but more than anything this game is a test of patience. There's no doubt that fewer party members and less leveling would put you through the game faster, but I just hope your reset button is up for a workout and (like you said) the cartridge doesn't crap out half way though even if you can devote lots of time to it!

Glad to see the old thread has picked up some life!  I haven't fallen off the face of the Earth yet, but changes in my life have notably reduced my hours of speedrunning to just a few per month.  I've completed 68 out of 90 segments and am sitting outside of the Ice Cave in what has proven to be the most painful part of the game yet.  After 400-500 resets on this segment alone, it's been a tough road, but the goods news is that I'm over 12 minutes ahead of my target time at this point in the game and am at 66 minutes ... which would equate to a final time of ~2:38 if I didn't shave a single second off the rest of the run (unlikely).  I'll complete this one, but the timing is very up in the air!

However, I welcome the thought of competition, especially if it would involved a radically party!  I like your thoughts so far but would caution you not to get your hopes up with the emulator tests since it's easy to assume something will work nicely when you're playing it step by step, but more than anything this game is a test of patience.  There's no doubt that fewer party members and less leveling would put you through the game faster, but I just hope your reset button is up for a workout and (like you said) the cartridge doesn't crap out half way though even if you can devote lots of time to it!

Winkwonle

Edit history:

Winkwonle: 2011-06-21 07:05:23 pm

2011-06-21 07:02:56 pm

Ahhh, news from WarMech! That's very good to hear! Oh, if you could end up below 2:30, how that would be so awesome. Grin

You're probably right about the warning. First I'm not even sure I'll actually end up doing the run that I'm having fun planning, and indeed my numbers come from emulator-stretched measurements. I may have been a little quick on my conclusions too. I tend to do that. E.g. posting in the [url href="http://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/final_fantasy_1_single_segment275.html"]single-segment thread[/url] that I could comfortably do sub 4:00, then taking almost a year to submit a 4:25 run that ended up being rejected... Yeah. I really like thinking about it, in any case.

Like you rightly said, I'm very scared by the cartridge's ability to crap out. On the bright side, mine has been remembering games for long periods as far as I can recall. When I start a new game on console (almost never happens these years), I always check what my previous game was, and I saw both scenarios a good number of times: a game from a few years ago emerges intact, or a game from a couple of months ago has been erased. For instance, my single-segment run is still on there right now (I just checked). I probably have one of the newest FF1 cartridges out there too, since I bought it very late after having borrowed a friend's copy for some years. I couldn't tell the exact year, but it was after FF3/FF6 was out, and the shop marked it as discontinued. I looked on ebay for boxed copies of FF1 some time ago, and I seem to remember that people were selling them rather expensively (like, 300$ or so). That would be ideal, I imagine.

to Lenophis:

Quote:

It's the same time spent either way, but it would've looked worse had I taken no damage between Kraken and Chaos.

A speedrun is indeed a show. Smiley

On my part, I was glad to get 4 Wizards and not just 2. My strategy allowed me to easily handle 4, so please bring them on.

Quote:

Someone want to donate a battery replacement or a cart?

It'd be nice if SDA had some kind of bank of old games to borrow from. Runners could send some kind of money guarantee that they would get back when they're done with the game, provided it still works like it used to. I'm sure there'd be fatal impracticalities to it. But it'd be nice.

Note that there's always the Wii's virtual console.

Ahhh, news from WarMech! That's very good to hear! Oh, if you could end up below 2:30, how that would be so awesome. ;D

You're probably right about the warning. First I'm not even sure I'll actually end up doing the run that I'm having fun planning, and indeed my numbers come from emulator-stretched measurements. I may have been a little quick on my conclusions too. I tend to do that. E.g. posting in the [url href="http://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/post/final_fantasy_1_single_segment275.html"]single-segment thread[/url] that I could comfortably do sub 4:00, then taking almost a year to submit a 4:25 run that ended up being rejected... Yeah.  I really like thinking about it, in any case.

Like you rightly said, I'm very scared by the cartridge's ability to crap out. On the bright side, mine has been remembering games for long periods as far as I can recall. When I start a new game on console (almost never happens these years), I always check what my previous game was, and I saw both scenarios a good number of times: a game from a few years ago emerges intact, or a game from a couple of months ago has been erased. For instance, my single-segment run is still on there right now (I just checked). I probably have one of the newest FF1 cartridges out there too, since I bought it very late after having borrowed a friend's copy for some years. I couldn't tell the exact year, but it was after FF3/FF6 was out, and the shop marked it as discontinued. I looked on ebay for boxed copies of FF1 some time ago, and I seem to remember that people were selling them rather expensively (like, 300$ or so). That would be ideal, I imagine.

to Lenophis:
[quote]It's the same time spent either way, but it would've looked worse had I taken no damage between Kraken and Chaos.[/quote]
A speedrun [i]is[/i] indeed a show. :)
On my part, I was glad to get 4 Wizards and not just 2. My strategy allowed me to easily handle 4, so please bring them on.

[quote]Someone want to donate a battery replacement or a cart?[/quote]
It'd be nice if SDA had some kind of bank of old games to borrow from. Runners could send some kind of money guarantee that they would get back when they're done with the game, provided it still works like it used to. I'm sure there'd be fatal impracticalities to it. But it'd be nice.

Note that there's always the Wii's virtual console.

Terribleno

2011-06-21 08:15:19 pm

Quote:

Note that there's always the Wii's virtual console.

I'm not shelling out $160 to get a digital representation of something I already own. >_>

Carcinogen

2011-06-22 06:36:47 am

Not to mention that hard resetting on virtual console is a pain in the ass, 'cuz when you start the game up, it loads a save state instead.

Terribleno

2011-06-23 06:33:37 pm

Now that I can stream Playstation stuff (albeit with psxjin), I'll do the concept run of Origins, with a team of Fighter, Black Belt, Red Mage, Black Mage. You can catch the at my channel while xsplit is still free, and once beta is done I don't know what I'll use. Something will come up, but for now, let's see what happens.

Terribleno

2011-06-23 06:37:50 pm

Catch the action, that is. Damn lack of edit for guests.

Terribleno

2011-06-23 11:35:38 pm

Yay, triple post, but at least this post has relevant info. I can say with almost 100% certainty that the formations seen are indeed random. I conducted 3 tests of 10 battles each to see which battles popped up, and here are the results:

Code:

purple worm: 1 or 2
purple worm: 1 or 2
white dragon: 3, 4, or 5
purple worm: 1 or 2
white dragon: 3, 4, or 5
purple worm: 1 or 2
white dragon: 3, 4, or 5
white dragon: 3, 4, or 5
white dragon: 3, 4, or 5
purple worm: 1 or 2

skeleton: 1
black widow: 2
skeleton: 1
ghoul: 4
wolf/grwolf: 6
ghoul: 4
zombie: 3
zombie: 3
zombie: 3
black widow: 2

tyro/wyvern: 2 or 4
tyro/wyvern: 2 or 4
r ankylo: 5 or 6
tyro/wyvern: 2 or 4
tyro/wyvern: 2 or 4
ankylo: 1 or 3
ankylo: 1 or 3
tyro/wyvern: 2 or 4
r ankylo: 5 or 6
tyro/wyvern: 2 or 4

After the 10 battles, I hard reset by turning the system off, then back on. Afterwards, the same save file was loaded. dn's theory looked sound at first, but then the differences popped up. I thought for a while that it was bad seeding (first result was always the same, but then was different), but the results say otherwise. Also, each number is the slot of formations that the game picked (as if you saw the listing in FFHackster). Finally, all tests were done on the PS2.

Unless something new pops up, or if I did something wrong, I think the book is closed on this one.

Yay, triple post, but at least this post has relevant info. I can say with almost 100% certainty that the formations seen are indeed random. I conducted 3 tests of 10 battles each to see which battles popped up, and here are the results:
[code]purple worm: 1 or 2
purple worm: 1 or 2
white dragon: 3, 4, or 5
purple worm: 1 or 2
white dragon: 3, 4, or 5
purple worm: 1 or 2
white dragon: 3, 4, or 5
white dragon: 3, 4, or 5
white dragon: 3, 4, or 5
purple worm: 1 or 2

skeleton: 1
black widow: 2
skeleton: 1
ghoul: 4
wolf/grwolf: 6
ghoul: 4
zombie: 3
zombie: 3
zombie: 3
black widow: 2

tyro/wyvern: 2 or 4
tyro/wyvern: 2 or 4
r ankylo: 5 or 6
tyro/wyvern: 2 or 4
tyro/wyvern: 2 or 4
ankylo: 1 or 3
ankylo: 1 or 3
tyro/wyvern: 2 or 4
r ankylo: 5 or 6
tyro/wyvern: 2 or 4[/code]

After the 10 battles, I hard reset by turning the system off, then back on. Afterwards, the same save file was loaded. dn's theory looked sound at first, but then the differences popped up. I thought for a while that it was bad seeding (first result was always the same, but then was different), but the results say otherwise. Also, each number is the slot of formations that the game picked (as if you saw the listing in FFHackster). Finally, all tests were done on the PS2.

Unless something new pops up, or if I did something wrong, I think the book is closed on this one.

Winkwonle

2011-06-24 05:04:47 am

OK. Good to have a concluding test for it. I would have much preferred if you could've had a way to predict the encounters, but it doesn't seem there's much to do then.

Quote:

dn's theory looked sound at first, but then the differences popped up.

This reminds me of the situation I have with my NES, that I've mentioned some time ago. Most of the time, like 70-80% or so, I get the normal encounter schedule, but in the other cases, my NES just starts at a random offset between 0 and 255. I doubt that similar sporadic inconsistencies would be happening for a later console like the PS2 though.

Darth Haro

2011-07-21 03:57:40 am

Quote:

Not to mention that hard resetting on virtual console is a pain in the ass, 'cuz when you start the game up, it loads a save state instead.

I just want to let people here know. If you hold down the power button on the Wiimote while playing instead of using the home button going to the Wii Menu, it will *not* make a save state, and will act like a true hard reset. This will allow you to reset the battle formations.

The only difference from doing this than on the NES that I could find was that you fight a Shark at sea first, instead of a Kyzoku battle, but the next battle after the Shark will be Kyzoku. It was suggested that the value of the first battle was one less than on the NES for whatever reason.

Carcinogen

Edit history:

Carcinogen: 2011-07-21 12:06:03 pm

2011-07-21 12:05:24 pm

That makes running on virtual console for anything other than SS not really worth it, because that's also gonna take you back to the main menu. =X

Winkwonle

2011-07-22 06:43:51 am

I'm not very familiar with the Wii, but may I ask why this extra delay should be a problem for segmented runs? Don't segments start at the moment the player gains control of the characters either way? If you were referring to the impossibility of having an immediate Kyzoku (or ZomBULL) encounter, then I imagine it'd be possible to just systematically restart the Wii-Power cycle, get a battle, Wii-Reset, and then start recording. Running on a Wii would take care of the very problematic battery problem of the NES cartridges, so I'd really like to understand this issue better.

ZenicReverie

2011-07-22 09:03:34 am

Waiting hurts my soul...

He's probably talking about the extra minute or so of setup time for every segment.

Carcinogen

2011-07-23 01:53:37 am

Quote from ZenicReverie:

He's probably talking about the extra minute or so of setup time for every segment.

Ding ding.

Also, would you want to go through that process every time you wanted to start a new segment? Personally, I'd rather take my chances with the save battery.

Winkwonle

2011-07-23 02:53:18 am

I see. It doesn't eliminate the Wii altogether for NES segmented runs, but it does make it an unattractive alternative. Oh well. At least we now know that it's a possibility if anyone other than WarMech, Lenophis, or myself wants to try their luck and don't have a working NES+cartridge.

Carcinogen

2011-07-23 03:06:26 am

What I would expect on the Wii, is a run that takes full advantage of the savestating feature by way of savescumming. In other words, super happy Bane funtime.

Terribleno

2011-08-13 07:09:06 pm

Ok, I now possess a freaking Dazzle. *aura*

The time to begin streaming FF1 really begins. You can catch it ~~here~~ here. The goal of this run is merely a proof of concept, to see if the Black Belt is as good as we are lead to believe.