Final Fantasy 1 - Segmented (Run Submitted!)

2009-12-22 01:22:05 am

For your ToFR Lich2 problem, there is an easy solution. Unequip the ProRing and Ribbon on your Black Wizard on the ToFR:Earth floor. Make sure you encounter GrMedusae. Get petrified. Beat the hell out of Lich2 with two Knights. Use a Soft potion on the Black Wizard. 8)

Since your Knights have >400 hp, they will always survive, and you will get past Lich2 99% of the time, at the cost of some Heal potions.

You're still on for bad lucks against Kraken, though. A petrified Level 12 White wizard, with a charge of LIFE in reserve, would take care of that. But I don't think it's worth it keeping the White wizard alive for Eye farming. And I don't tend to think that it's worth keeping the Black wizard alive for Eye farming over Level 12-13 either, btw.

For your DVD recorder, you can get one on eBay for around a hundred dollars:
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=dvd+recorder&_sacat=See-All-Categories

I got mine at a BestBuy store for $150, tax included.

Keep up the good work! You're our best hope of seeing some pimp run of FF1 on SDA at last.

For your ToFR Lich2 problem, there is an easy solution. Unequip the ProRing and Ribbon on your Black Wizard on the ToFR:Earth floor. Make sure you encounter GrMedusae. Get petrified. Beat the hell out of Lich2 with two Knights. Use a Soft potion on the Black Wizard. 8)

Since your Knights have >400 hp, they will always survive, and you will get past Lich2 99% of the time, at the cost of some Heal potions.

You're still on for bad lucks against Kraken, though. A petrified Level 12 White wizard, with a charge of LIFE in reserve, would take care of that. But I don't think it's worth it keeping the White wizard alive for Eye farming. And I don't tend to think that it's worth keeping the Black wizard alive for Eye farming over Level 12-13 either, btw.

For your DVD recorder, you can get one on eBay for around a hundred dollars:
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p3907.m38.l1313&_nkw=dvd+recorder&_sacat=See-All-Categories

I got mine at a BestBuy store for $150, tax included.

Keep up the good work! You're our best hope of seeing some pimp run of FF1 on SDA at last.

japanzaman

2010-02-16 07:09:07 am

Okay folks, I thought I'd chime in here and see what, if anything, has been developing on this little project. FFI has kind of been a Holy Grail for the Speed Running community, mostly because it's insanely difficult to beat quickly. The amount of stuff you need to know about this game to pull off a run like what you all are attempting is mind boggling, especially for people who only played the game casually. A little while back I wrote a faq for Gamegfaqs on doing a low level game and during that time I learned more about this game than I really ever wanted to know. But of course, my mind would always wander into the speed running realm...

To Winkwonle-

I understand your run didn't make the cut, but I would like you to know that I totally disagree with that decision. A single segmented run of Final Fantasy that is sub 5 hours requires so much luck and planning that any successful run should have been posted. Plus your idea for keeping everybody alive at Lich 2 was absolutely brilliant. I say establish a time and then see who can beat it. Do us all a favor and find some way to upload that video as I would really like to see it. I didn't make the deadline of Feb 16'th so the video is no longer available.

To Warmech

I share your pain when it comes to resets. Just thinking about that word makes me never want to have anything to do with FFI again (yet here I am?). It took me close to 700 tries to beat the TOFR at low level (9). Your overall plan sounds pretty good and well thought out, and if you somehow got a sub 3:00:00 time, I think it could go down as one of the greatest runs on the site. That final segment would have to be EPIC though...

Okay, I've rambled and haven't really said very much, mostly because I'm not very knowledgeable in the speed element of this game. One thing that I can say was that even in a low level game, the successful segments weren't all that long because you run from every encounter (I choose to abuse the Thief's Luck with the running bug). I guess what I'm hinting at is that the game can be beaten at VERY low levels, so be careful when you assume that your party must be at a certain level to complete the game. Still, I understand that we also need to do things quickly and that sometimes a little time invested can save you quite a bit later on. I also wonder about the Bane Sword possibilities- with enough perseverance you could clear off Kary, Kraken, and Tiamat in a single round (and possibly even the first attack) at extremely low levels. You could also choose to handle Lich 2 that way- nah, maybe not.

For a single segment run, I would be tempted to toy around with a Thief/Ninja simply for the guaranteed running ability for all avoidable battles, which could remove quite a bit of risk early in the game.

There is no way I am going to even consider attempting something like this, so I can only hope one of you guys manages to put all of this together for the rest of the SDA community to appreciate. I'd like to help, but I don't think there's really anything I can say you already don't already know. Just remember that what you are attempting can be done and will be done with enough elbow grease and a little bit of luck, most of which you'll be manipulating anyway Grin

Okay folks, I thought I'd chime in here and see what, if anything, has been developing on this little project. FFI has kind of been a Holy Grail for the Speed Running community, mostly because it's insanely difficult to beat quickly. The amount of stuff you need to know about this game to pull off a run like what you all are attempting is mind boggling, especially for people who only played the game casually. A little while back I wrote a faq for Gamegfaqs on doing a low level game and during that time I learned more about this game than I really ever wanted to know. But of course, my mind would always wander into the speed running realm...

To Winkwonle-

I understand your run didn't make the cut, but I would like you to know that I totally disagree with that decision. A single segmented run of Final Fantasy that is sub 5 hours requires so much luck and planning that any successful run should have been posted. Plus your idea for keeping everybody alive at Lich 2 was absolutely brilliant. I say establish a time and then see who can beat it. Do us all a favor and find some way to upload that video as I would really like to see it. I didn't make the deadline of Feb 16'th so the video is no longer available.

To Warmech

I share your pain when it comes to resets. Just thinking about that word makes me never want to have anything to do with FFI again (yet here I am?). It took me close to 700 tries to beat the TOFR at low level (9). Your overall plan sounds pretty good and well thought out, and if you somehow got a sub 3:00:00 time, I think it could go down as one of the greatest runs on the site. That final segment would have to be EPIC though...

Okay, I've rambled and haven't really said very much, mostly because I'm not very knowledgeable in the speed element of this game. One thing that I can say was that even in a low level game, the successful segments weren't all that long because you run from every encounter (I choose to abuse the Thief's Luck with the running bug). I guess what I'm hinting at is that the game can be beaten at VERY low levels, so be careful when you assume that your party must be at a certain level to complete the game. Still, I understand that we also need to do things quickly and that sometimes a little time invested can save you quite a bit later on. I also wonder about the Bane Sword possibilities- with enough perseverance you could clear off Kary, Kraken, and Tiamat in a single round (and possibly even the first attack) at extremely low levels. You could also choose to handle Lich 2 that way- nah, maybe not.

For a single segment run, I would be tempted to toy around with a Thief/Ninja simply for the guaranteed running ability for all avoidable battles, which could remove quite a bit of risk early in the game.

There is no way I am going to even consider attempting something like this, so I can only hope one of you guys manages to put all of this together for the rest of the SDA community to appreciate. I'd like to help, but I don't think there's really anything I can say you already don't already know. Just remember that what you are attempting can be done and will be done with enough elbow grease and a little bit of luck, most of which you'll be manipulating anyway ;D

WarMech

2010-02-18 05:33:58 pm

Welcome to the thread japanzaman!

To tell you the truth, I've been getting my motivation for this game back in recent days and actually spent a lot of time reading Game FAQ posts (including you level 9 one) to get some more info. This is causing me to revisit an idea I had a while ago about avoiding going back to the Ice Cave for the leveling up altogether. The question is whether the 17 or so minutes I would spend leveling up makes the remaining sections of the games 17 minutes faster. For example, if the boss battles are slower and more healing/items are required, you might say no. However, knowing that you can beat the game at level 9 is, as you say, mind boggling.

I can't keep going back and testing and revising my strategy or the run itself will never be completed. I've watch so many amazing speedruns over the years that I really just want to create something of value myself. As much as I'd like to make a perfect run the first time, determining how to reach this perfection is a process that could take years and the efforts of many runner who want to beat the time.

As a result, what I think I'm going to do is stick with my original team (FFFR) and original strategy with the exception of the small points which I've already agreed will be faster. If we decide to revisit the idea of a different team, involving a white mage or lower level for example, then I think I would create a new plan and run to obsolete the existing one. I'll spend the next week or so revising my current strategy and likely do a final test run. At that point, I'd like to begin recording again and knock out this run once and for all... until the next run. Grin

Welcome to the thread japanzaman!

To tell you the truth, I've been getting my motivation for this game back in recent days and actually spent a lot of time reading Game FAQ posts (including you level 9 one) to get some more info.  This is causing me to revisit an idea I had a while ago about avoiding going back to the Ice Cave for the leveling up altogether.  The question is whether the 17 or so minutes I would spend leveling up makes the remaining sections of the games 17 minutes faster.  For example, if the boss battles are slower and more healing/items are required, you might say no.  However, knowing that you can beat the game at level 9 is, as you say, mind boggling.

I can't keep going back and testing and revising my strategy or the run itself will never be completed.  I've watch so many amazing speedruns over the years that I really just want to create something of value myself.  As much as I'd like to make a perfect run the first time, determining how to reach this perfection is a process that could take years and the efforts of many runner who want to beat the time.

As a result, what I think I'm going to do is stick with my original team (FFFR) and original strategy with the exception of the small points which I've already agreed will be faster.  If we decide to revisit the idea of a different team, involving a white mage or lower level for example, then I think I would create a new plan and run to obsolete the existing one.  I'll spend the next week or so revising my current strategy and likely do a final test run.  At that point, I'd like to begin recording again and knock out this run once and for all... until the next run.   ;D

Winkwonle

2010-02-22 08:19:03 am

Well, WarMech, I think you're right after all. Stick with the original plan. If you manage to make it under 3:00, then no one cares if it's not the exact perfect optimal team and route. It'd be infinitely better than no run at all, and it'd take some serious planning for anyone who'd like to improve on your time. And maybe your original plan was the best one anyway, or very close to.

Welcome japanzaman! Thanks for the good words. Since you bring up the subject of my single-segment run, I'd like to comment on a couple of things (provided this does not draw attention from WarMech's thread).

My run takes between 4:15 and 4:20, to be more exact. If I understood correctly, SDA didn't accept it because I wasn't fast enough in the menu and I lost a couple of minutes here and there from bad route planning inside villages. Also I took some precautions before entering the ToFR, like buying EXIT, that I didn't end up profiting from. While I agree that the run does contain many spots where I seem to lose time stupidly, I don't think I can do very much better on that.

As anyone who played that game a little knows, it's almost impossible to plan ahead perfectly in FF1 (single segment). You can't buy in advance the exact number of potions you'll use, or refrain from buying any spell that you won't end up using. You can't reject the Lich2 trick just because you manage to get lucky sometimes and not need it. If you do that, you'll either end up retrying 700 times and saving 10 minutes overall, or more realistically you'll start building-up levels to compensate for your lack of extra precautions, and lose more time than you saved. To top that, making small budgetary decisions during the pre-Melmond phase of the game is bound to take you some time, since the variance on how much money you have is very high. Seriously, if someone comes up with a "pretty" run that takes over 4:20, and that run is posted on SDA, then I will be most annoyed.

I would certainly like to "publish" my run somewhere else for people like you who think it would be worth seeing. First, I don't know how to host torrents and stuff. Second, I'm not familiar with video compression and editing. The whole thing takes several gigabytes and lives on 3 separate DVDs. Of course the SDA team did an extensive editing job already, but the video they produced is "for verification only -- please do not redistribute". If someone knows a good video hosting website (does youtube allow for such big files?) and good/free video editing tools, my ears are open.

Well, WarMech, I think you're right after all. Stick with the original plan. If you manage to make it under 3:00, then no one cares if it's not the exact perfect optimal team and route. It'd be infinitely better than no run at all, and it'd take some serious planning for anyone who'd like to improve on your time. And maybe your original plan was the best one anyway, or very close to.

Welcome japanzaman! Thanks for the good words. Since you bring up the subject of my single-segment run, I'd like to comment on a couple of things (provided this does not draw attention from WarMech's thread).

My run takes between 4:15 and 4:20, to be more exact. If I understood correctly, SDA didn't accept it because I wasn't fast enough in the menu and I lost a couple of minutes here and there from bad route planning inside villages. Also I took some precautions before entering the ToFR, like buying EXIT, that I didn't end up profiting from. While I agree that the run does contain many spots where I seem to lose time stupidly, I don't think I can do very much better on that.

As anyone who played that game a little knows, it's almost impossible to plan ahead perfectly in FF1 (single segment). You can't buy in advance the exact number of potions you'll use, or refrain from buying any spell that you won't end up using. You can't reject the Lich2 trick just because you manage to get lucky sometimes and not need it. If you do that, you'll either end up retrying 700 times and saving 10 minutes overall, or more realistically you'll start building-up levels to compensate for your lack of extra precautions, and lose more time than you saved. To top that, making small budgetary decisions during the pre-Melmond phase of the game is bound to take you some time, since the variance on how much money you have is very high. Seriously, if someone comes up with a "pretty" run that takes over 4:20, and that run is posted on SDA, then I will be most annoyed.

I would certainly like to "publish" my run somewhere else for people like you who think it would be worth seeing. First, I don't know how to host torrents and stuff. Second, I'm not familiar with video compression and editing. The whole thing takes several gigabytes and lives on 3 separate DVDs. Of course the SDA team did an extensive editing job already, but the video they produced is "for verification only -- please do not redistribute". If someone knows a good video hosting website (does youtube allow for such big files?) and good/free video editing tools, my ears are open.

snorlax

2010-02-22 08:15:08 pm

zzzzzzzzzz

I requested your run from Mike, but I never noticed his reply PM despite coming here pretty much every day, and now the link is broken. I still very much want to see it if somehow possible. I don't know exactly the best method for you to upload it, but I'm sure someone could help you with that.

Winkwonle

2010-02-23 09:20:14 am

If someone can help, I would be delighted.

I've got three folders with VIDEO_RM and VIDEO_TS subfolders holding the contents of the dvds, for a total of 10.6 G. Alternatively, I've got physical disks which I could mail to someone offering to do the editing.

Of course the simplest solution is to wait until I have time to do a better run, if that ever happens, and hope it gets accepted this time.

Essentia

2010-02-23 11:38:51 am

Everything's better with Magitek

Winkwonle, if you have the VIDEO_TS folders, you can directly upload the .vob files directly to Youtube, although they take quite a bit longer. To split them up into smaller files for Youtube's time limit, you can use DVD Shrink - this is how I put most of my videos on Youtube.

I wasn't one of the verifiers for your run, but I got it from Mike and watched it. I have to say that I can see why it was rejected, although it was still a pretty close call. I'm going to point out some things about the run, but I hope you take them as constructive criticism.

Mistakes in battles are okay, since those are so random, but there are some things that I would think would be the same in every run, such as treasure picked up and equipment. I noticed one time that you opened a treasure chest (I think it was an Opal Shield), then spent some time rearranging equipment, and then ended up throwing away the same item you'd just picked up. To me, that seems to be a planning error. Unless some of the equipment you got is random, you can plan out exactly what everyone will be equipped with and when beforehand, so you don't waste time thinking about it during the run. I'd suggest having making a cheat sheet if you haven't already, because it can be hard to remember all those equipment changes in such a long run. (This helped me a lot in my FFVI SS run.)

I can understand going into the menu just to check on things, but it's only time wasted and looks bad. Try to keep track of those things as you go along and you'll be able to save a bunch of time.

Also, one of the most noticeable mistakes in the run was that after defeating Astos and Kary, there was quite a long pause before the text continued. I know some of the verifiers pointed this out, but now I'm wondering if that's where you changed discs; if not, then it looks pretty bad in a speedrun.

I can't really say much about your choice of party, since I don't know this game that well, but I'd say stick with it if you think it's best and put some justification for it in your comments.

I really hope you'll try this again, because I'd love to see another FF SS run on the site. If you can just fix certain things that wasted a little bit of time here and there, you'll be able to have a solid run.

Winkwonle, if you have the VIDEO_TS folders, you can directly upload the .vob files directly to Youtube, although they take quite a bit longer.  To split them up into smaller files for Youtube's time limit, you can use [url=http://www.mrbass.org/dvdshrink/]DVD Shrink[/url] - this is how I put most of my videos on Youtube.

I wasn't one of the verifiers for your run, but I got it from Mike and watched it.  I have to say that I can see why it was rejected, although it was still a pretty close call.  I'm going to point out some things about the run, but I hope you take them as constructive criticism.

Mistakes in battles are okay, since those are so random, but there are some things that I would think would be the same in every run, such as treasure picked up and equipment.  I noticed one time that you opened a treasure chest (I think it was an Opal Shield), then spent some time rearranging equipment, and then ended up throwing away the same item you'd just picked up.  To me, that seems to be a planning error.  Unless some of the equipment you got is random, you can plan out exactly what everyone will be equipped with and when beforehand, so you don't waste time thinking about it during the run.  I'd suggest having making a cheat sheet if you haven't already, because it can be hard to remember all those equipment changes in such a long run.  (This helped me [i]a lot[/i] in my FFVI SS run.)

I can understand going into the menu just to check on things, but it's only time wasted and looks bad.  Try to keep track of those things as you go along and you'll be able to save a bunch of time.

Also, one of the most noticeable mistakes in the run was that after defeating Astos and Kary, there was quite a long pause before the text continued.  I know some of the verifiers pointed this out, but now I'm wondering if that's where you changed discs; if not, then it looks pretty bad in a speedrun.

I can't really say much about your choice of party, since I don't know this game that well, but I'd say stick with it if you think it's best and put some justification for it in your comments.

I really hope you'll try this again, because I'd love to see another FF SS run on the site.  If you can just fix certain things that wasted a little bit of time here and there, you'll be able to have a solid run.

japanzaman

2010-02-23 06:33:38 pm

Youtube is probably the best option, as Essentia has already pointed out. Quite a hassle splitting up all those vob files, but there really isn't a better free alternative. Either way, post that linky as soon as you can as it would entertain quite a few people during lunchbreak.

Winkwonle

2010-02-24 04:05:54 pm

Thanks for the tip! I'm going to look into it as soon as I have some free time.

Answering Essentia's comments:

There were two places where I had to switch discs. I chose times where I could not have easily cheated to do it, i.e. after the Astos and Kary battles. The waiting is not my work, it's that of the guy who edited the final video. In fact, I arranged for the music to loop at least an entire time so that the video could be edited seamlessly.

The same goes for the 1 hour delay at the beginning of the run. I'm grateful to the person who put my video together, as I'm sure it's a lot of hard work, but in the end I would be frustrated to know that my run was rejected partly because of these artificial delays.

I agree with you about my obvious lack of planning for certain stages of the game, especially as far as equipment is concerned. I have had a hard time convincing myself that any particular strategy is best, and for that reason I browsed through the game regularly on emulator between running attempts. I've done it over a hundred times, not always with that exact team and strategy, and I got a little confused probably.

I didn't feel like I was going to the menu so often, though. I don't think I checked my status screen at all, and I didn't go to the menu unless I had equipment to change or I had to check that I had enough money to buy what was next. Of course if I had had an assistant counting my money...

Apart from looking bad, I don't think that menu and equipment handling cost me more that a few minutes overall. Your suggestion of using a cheat sheet is a good one.

I've really enjoyed your FFVI SS run, by the way. I couldn't see anything at all that could be improved, so it left me with a very satisfied feeling. I don't think it's possible to go near that with FF1, since it's so much random.

There are quite a couple of things that I would do differently if I had to try that run again, the first one of which would be battle counting. I saw that some verifiers gave (mostly bad) suggestions about faster strategies or better teams. I don't say that FFRW is the absolute fastest, but it is more stable than most other teams, so it allows me to spend my "retry budget" in a more constructive manner.

Again, thanks for the tips and encouraging comments.

Thanks for the tip! I'm going to look into it as soon as I have some free time.

Answering Essentia's comments:

There were two places where I had to switch discs. I chose times where I could not have easily cheated to do it, i.e. after the Astos and Kary battles. The waiting is not my work, it's that of the guy who edited the final video. In fact, I arranged for the music to loop at least an entire time so that the video could be edited seamlessly.

The same goes for the 1 hour delay at the beginning of the run. I'm grateful to the person who put my video together, as I'm sure it's a lot of hard work, but in the end I would be frustrated to know that my run was rejected partly because of these artificial delays.

I agree with you about my obvious lack of planning for certain stages of the game, especially as far as equipment is concerned. I have had a hard time convincing myself that any particular strategy is best, and for that reason I browsed through the game regularly on emulator between running attempts. I've done it over a hundred times, not always with that exact team and strategy, and I got a little confused probably.

I didn't feel like I was going to the menu so often, though. I don't think I checked my status screen at all, and I didn't go to the menu unless I had equipment to change or I had to check that I had enough money to buy what was next. Of course if I had had an assistant counting my money...

Apart from looking bad, I don't think that menu and equipment handling cost me more that a few minutes overall. Your suggestion of using a cheat sheet is a good one.

I've really enjoyed your FFVI SS run, by the way. I couldn't see anything at all that could be improved, so it left me with a very satisfied feeling. I don't think it's possible to go near that with FF1, since it's so much random.

There are quite a couple of things that I would do differently if I had to try that run again, the first one of which would be battle counting. I saw that some verifiers gave (mostly bad) suggestions about faster strategies or better teams. I don't say that FFRW is the absolute fastest, but it is more stable than most other teams, so it allows me to spend my "retry budget" in a more constructive manner.

Again, thanks for the tips and encouraging comments.

FionordeQuester

2010-02-24 04:18:29 pm

Just out of curiosity, why DID you choose FFRW anyways? Most people recommend FFFR, so your team kinda threw me for a loop.

Winkwonle

2010-02-24 07:21:29 pm

It's a combination of factors that decided me to go for that team. I had to have a good plan for every boss battle in the game.

The first problem with FFFR is Astos, which I engage at level 5 (it was around 0:39 through the run). There are two valid strategies. The first is to throw elemental spells, ICE and FIRE. The second is to use MUTE. With a team of only one magic user, Astos is feasible but requires a high amount of luck. Also, you will probably need to spend the HOUSE there to replenish your spell charges, so you won't have it for exp farming later on.

There is also trouble against Lich, which I engage at level 7-8 (about 1:36 through). With the FFFR team, I got killed against Lich more than 50% of the time. And that is almost two hours through the game, so it's really not acceptable. So the usual solution is to earn a little more exp and buy more equipment.

Finally, the ToFR is a little easier with FFFR but not much. You still need to keep the wizard petrified the whole way, but you get to face the fiends with three characters instead of two. I think the chances earned here are less significant than those lost at the other two dangerous spots.

I'm not mentioning the Ice cave and Ordeals, because no team is good there. It's just a matter of luck or battle counting.

The game in its whole is not much different from one team to another. Most encounters are just about running away. Once you get the Zeus Gauntlet, the fourth member of your party will become a perpetual item user, so better have him be a white wizard since that also gives more healing charges.

Also, an infinite number of Harm spell charges is a sweet thing to have at the beginning of the game. Otherwise, it's not so rare that you get unlucky battles against Geist, Ghoul and such, and that you spend precious Fir2 charges or lose precious time trying to escape.

If you're not convinced, play through the game a couple of times with an emulator, at the lowest level possible, and no resets. Getting paralyzed for 10 minutes is also a loss. Try FFRW, FFFR and also FFRR. Which team does survive the most to the end? I found that it was FFRW.

I will consider FFRR some more. I will mostly consider FFRB, with the early Warp spell charge. It's supposed to buy something like 10 minutes if you use it everywhere possible.

In summary, I chose my team so that every bit of the game goes smoothly even at low levels. I could be wrong of course. Someone says on the SS topic that a run was done in 3:37 on the Japanese version, using FFRR. It's definitely worth investigating.

It's a combination of factors that decided me to go for that team. I had to have a good plan for every boss battle in the game.

The first problem with FFFR is Astos, which I engage at level 5 (it was around 0:39 through the run). There are two valid strategies. The first is to throw elemental spells, ICE and FIRE. The second is to use MUTE. With a team of only one magic user, Astos is feasible but requires a high amount of luck. Also, you will probably need to spend the HOUSE there to replenish your spell charges, so you won't have it for exp farming later on.

There is also trouble against Lich, which I engage at level 7-8 (about 1:36 through). With the FFFR team, I got killed against Lich more than 50% of the time. And that is almost two hours through the game, so it's really not acceptable. So the usual solution is to earn a little more exp and buy more equipment.

Finally, the ToFR is a little easier with FFFR but not much. You still need to keep the wizard petrified the whole way, but you get to face the fiends with three characters instead of two. I think the chances earned here are less significant than those lost at the other two dangerous spots.

I'm not mentioning the Ice cave and Ordeals, because no team is good there. It's just a matter of luck or battle counting.

The game in its whole is not much different from one team to another. Most encounters are just about running away. Once you get the Zeus Gauntlet, the fourth member of your party will become a perpetual item user, so better have him be a white wizard since that also gives more healing charges.

Also, an infinite number of Harm spell charges is a sweet thing to have at the beginning of the game. Otherwise, it's not so rare that you get unlucky battles against Geist, Ghoul and such, and that you spend precious Fir2 charges or lose precious time trying to escape.

If you're not convinced, play through the game a couple of times with an emulator, at the lowest level possible, and no resets. Getting paralyzed for 10 minutes is also a loss. Try FFRW, FFFR and also FFRR. Which team does survive the most to the end? I found that it was FFRW.

I will consider FFRR some more. I will mostly consider FFRB, with the early Warp spell charge. It's supposed to buy something like 10 minutes if you use it everywhere possible.

In summary, I chose my team so that every bit of the game goes smoothly even at low levels. I could be wrong of course. Someone says on the SS topic that a run was done in 3:37 on the Japanese version, using FFRR. It's definitely worth investigating.

FionordeQuester

Edit history:

FionordeQuester: 2010-02-24 07:41:01 pm

2010-02-24 07:30:46 pm

Alright, but what I'm confused on, is how did the White Mage make everything she was supposed to make easier, easier? I know she did, but HOW? How did she make the Lich fight go smoother for example?

Also, if I remember correctly, that run took quite a bit of retries.

Lenophis

2010-02-24 08:13:50 pm

0-10

Quote from Winkwonle:

I will consider FFRR some more. I will mostly consider FFRB, with the early Warp spell charge. It's supposed to buy something like 10 minutes if you use it everywhere possible.

At least.

Quote:

In summary, I chose my team so that every bit of the game goes smoothly even at low levels. I could be wrong of course. Someone says on the SS topic that a run was done in 3:37 on the Japanese version, using FFRR. It's definitely worth investigating.

Hmm, I'm a little weary about a second red mage. One mage that gets charges slower is bad enough, but two? Are you aiming for more physical damage output with this party?

Quote from FionordeQuester:

Alright, but what I'm confused on, is how did the White Mage make everything she was supposed to make easier, easier? I know she did, but HOW? How did she make the Lich fight go smoother for example?

Lich is undead, and HRM rapes the undead. White mage becomes a great, but limited fighter, for that fight.

FionordeQuester

Edit history:

FionordeQuester: 2010-02-24 09:30:58 pm

2010-02-24 08:20:07 pm

Ok, but what about for everything else, like random battles and all that?

And for that matter, what exactly was your route Wonkle?

Winkwonle

2010-02-24 10:53:31 pm

Hahah, I realize that the nickname I picked is hard to subvocalize. Tongue

Lenophis is right. HRM rapes undeads. And there are a lot of them in FF.

Random... battles? Oh, you mean the annoying stuff away from which you systematically run? (uh... that you always run away from...)

Seriously, there are just a few kinds of battles that are worth fighting, and these are generally made of big monsters like Ogres at the beginning, and Giants later on. What the white mage does is, well, heal. He/she rarely wastes a turn fighting, and the time spent going through the Cure animation is about the same as that required to use the spell from the out-of-battle menu. It's ofter even a time saver.

I don't know if I should take the time to retrace my whole route here, since it's not very fresh in my memory. Also, it is likely that I will upload the video sometime next week, provided that I find my way through that whole DVD-Shrink thing.

FionordeQuester

2010-02-24 10:57:11 pm

Couldn't you just rewatch your videos? Or would that be long and inconvenient?

ShinerCCC

2010-02-25 03:07:38 am

Yes, a worthless avatar riding my posts.

i love it when people like FionordeQuester don't read threads and just ask tons of obvious questions

FionordeQuester

2010-02-25 02:06:56 pm

I love it when people like FionordeQuester don't read threads and just ask tons of obvious questions.

Well, Shiner, I looked at every single post Wonkle posted (I looked at his history), and I never saw anywhere any posted route he had come up with. There was a bunch of stuff on how to manipulate battles with stepping a certain amount of squares in a bunch of ways (something about how to avoid land battles by boarding the ship again, only you'd have to fight battles on the ship again), and he was always talking about his "stoning the mage" trick for the Lich 2, but at the end of the analysis of each post he made, he literally has yet to say ANYTHING about what equipment he was gonna buy, what items he was gonna get, where he was going to grind (if at all), whether he would use the Mystic Key for anything but Cornerias treasures, or even what order he would tackle the Ice Cave/Castle of Ordeals/Gulgu Volcano. That's why I asked. If there was something else I could have looked at to answer my questions, I am sorry.

If your talking about my request to rewatch videos as me "posting obvious questions instead of find out myself", well, I just kind of assumed that since he had the video, he'd be able to watch it somehow. I'm sorry if I'm mistaken.

Also, I'm concerned that you think I might be being rude by asking him to rewatch the videos. As for that, I did say that he didn't need to right? I don't want him to trouble himself if it's inconvenient in any way to do so.

[i]I love it when people like FionordeQuester don't read threads and just ask tons of obvious questions.[/i]

Well, Shiner, I looked at every single post Wonkle posted (I looked at his history), and I never saw anywhere any posted route he had come up with.  There was a bunch of stuff on how to manipulate battles with stepping a certain amount of squares in a bunch of ways (something about how to avoid land battles by boarding the ship again, only you'd have to fight battles on the ship again), and he was always talking about his "stoning the mage" trick for the Lich 2, but at the end of the analysis of each post he made, he literally has yet to say ANYTHING about what equipment he was gonna buy, what items he was gonna get, where he was going to grind (if at all), whether he would use the Mystic Key for anything but Cornerias treasures, or even what order he would tackle the Ice Cave/Castle of Ordeals/Gulgu Volcano.  That's why I asked.  If there was something else I could have looked at to answer my questions, I am sorry.

If your talking about my request to rewatch videos as me "posting obvious questions instead of find out myself", well, I just kind of assumed that since he had the video, he'd be able to watch it somehow.  I'm sorry if I'm mistaken.

Also, I'm concerned that you think I might be being rude by asking him to rewatch the videos.  As for that, I did say that he didn't need to right?  I don't want him to trouble himself if it's inconvenient in any way to do so.

Lenophis

2010-02-25 03:19:22 pm

0-10

If it were me, my order would be Castle of Ordeals (Heal Staff and Zeus Gauntlets), Ice Cave, then Gurgu Volcano. Volcano should be last regardless, but the Ice Cave and castle are interchangeable, depending on your strategy.

Quote from Winkwonle:

I'm not mentioning the Ice cave and Ordeals, because no team is good there. It's just a matter of luck or battle counting.

Look behind you, it's a SORCERER, MAGE, COCKTRICE, WRAITH, and IMAGE, all in one battle! Grin

Quote:

There is also trouble against Lich, which I engage at level 7-8

Fighting at level 10 is probably out of the question, though it would give you a Haste charge. Any possibility of fighting at level 9? That is a bit more reliable, though not much.

Quote:

The first problem with FFFR is Astos, which I engage at level 5 (it was around 0:39 through the run). There are two valid strategies. The first is to throw elemental spells, ICE and FIRE. The second is to use MUTE. With a team of only one magic user, Astos is feasible but requires a high amount of luck.

It's almost certain one will get RUB'ed out, too. Please tell me you aren't relying on surviving that, cause it's insane.

Quote:

Also, you will probably need to spend the HOUSE there to replenish your spell charges, so you won't have it for exp farming later on.

Pick the one up in the Dwarf Cave as you give the TNT to Nerrick. Tongue

Still not much leeway, but it helps. (Or maybe you already do, and I'm an idiot?)

If it were me, my order would be Castle of Ordeals (Heal Staff and Zeus Gauntlets), Ice Cave, then Gurgu Volcano. Volcano should be last regardless, but the Ice Cave and castle are interchangeable, depending on your strategy.

[quote="Winkwonle"]I'm not mentioning the Ice cave and Ordeals, because no team is good there. It's just a matter of luck or battle counting.[/quote]
Look behind you, it's a SORCERER, MAGE, COCKTRICE, WRAITH, and IMAGE, all in one battle! ;D

[quote]There is also trouble against Lich, which I engage at level 7-8[/quote]
Fighting at level 10 is probably out of the question, though it would give you a Haste charge. Any possibility of fighting at level 9? That is a bit more reliable, though not much.

[quote]The first problem with FFFR is Astos, which I engage at level 5 (it was around 0:39 through the run). There are two valid strategies. The first is to throw elemental spells, ICE and FIRE. The second is to use MUTE. With a team of only one magic user, Astos is feasible but requires a high amount of luck.[/quote]
It's almost certain one will get RUB'ed out, too. Please tell me you aren't relying on surviving that, cause it's insane.

[quote]Also, you will probably need to spend the HOUSE there to replenish your spell charges, so you won't have it for exp farming later on.[/quote]
Pick the one up in the Dwarf Cave as you give the TNT to Nerrick. :P Still not much leeway, but it helps. (Or maybe you already do, and I'm an idiot?)

Winkwonle

2010-02-25 07:22:40 pm

I didn't want to flood this multi-segment thread with single-segment route details, and I didn't see enough activity on the FF single-segment thread to bother.

The route I used for the FFRW team:
- Buy three rapiers + one iron hammer, then two chain mails and Cure for both mages, then go for Garland.
- Try to get one Ghoul as a the second encounter.
- Go directly to Pravoka if possible, but possibly Inn at Coneria.
- Fight Bikke right away, then buy Mute for the red mage.
- Go loot the dwarves' thousand gold. Probably Inn at Coneria on the way and buy 2-3 pure.
- Go to Coneria with the money, buy Ruse and Harm for the white mage, Lit for the red mage, plus two tents, and buy potions up to 15 heal and 10 pure. If you lack money, cut on potions with a 3:2 proportion.
- Go to Elfland. Buy at least an Iron shield, but if you're slack then buy two plus an Iron helmet. Inn if not full.
- Go directly to Marsh cave. Fight on the way if possible. Tent right in front. You should be level 4 with everyone.
- Get to the Wizard spot, but pick the short sword, iron armor and house on the way. The short goes to the second fighter, the iron armor to the first fighter (his chain mail goes to the red mage). Don't engage Wizards yet.
- Make sure your second fighter is Level 5. If not, do one or two additional battles. Normally, he should be really close if not already there. Of course, switch the fighters (and their equipment) of the first one reaches Level 5 before.
- Put the second fighter at the 4th position, and the (unarmored) white mage at the 2nd position.
- Engage the Wizards. If there are four of them, you are probably toasted. Otherwise, fight + ruse + lit + fight, for two rounds. Don't be afraid to overkill the first wizard. Once there are just two of them, the battle becomes easy. Both mages should use cure or heal potions after that, until the battle is won.
- Put the second fighter back in 2nd row. Leave the Marsh cave. Don't heal the white wizard on the way out. Go directly to Astos. Tent outside.
- Engage Astos: fight + fight + mute, for two rounds. The first fighter will probably die from rub, but that's OK. There are some chances that you don't succeed in muting him. In that case, you're toast.
- Go back to Elfland, and depending on your shape, Inn and/or Church.
- Pick the HERB, then the KEY + all Elfcastle chests, then do some shopping in Elfland. Buy Fir2, Hrm2, and if possible Cur2 for the white (before Hrm2, so that the order gets right in the menu). I doubt it, but if you have money for another Cur2, then now is the best time.
- Go to Astos's castle. Pick up the three treasure chests. Give falchon to the first fighter. Fight Mummies until out of spell charges. Leave, house, re-enter.
- Go to Elfland. Sell Power staff and short sword. Buy two silver swords. Buy Cur2 for whoever doesn't have it. Buy two soft potions. Buy 2 cabins. Leave town from the left. Give falchon to the red mage and equip stuff.
- Pick the TNT + Coneria castle chests. Go to Coneria. Buy up to 10 pure and as much heal as possible (until cash is below 60, that is). Pick dwarves chests. Go to Melmond. Sell weapons except two silver swords and a falchon. Sell stuff that isn't iron, except red mage's chain shirt. Buy iron everything to both fighters. Buy Silver bracelet to white mage. From now on, whenever team is disordered from poison, consider fighters as interchangeable, and mages too.
- Go to Earth cave. Cabin. Pick up Coral sword and useless chest just beside it, and equip coral instead of falchon.
- Give a humility lesson to the Vampire. You should use one charge of Fir2 and one charge of Hrm2. On the way, fight undeads and Wizards, but nothing else. Use Level-3 spells for undeads (such as Fir2), but be conservative.
- Leave Earth cave. Cabin. Give RUBY to titan. Pick up silver helmet and other useless chests. Get ROD.
- Go directly back to earth cave. House. Go straight to Lich, no chests. Again, fight only undeads and Wizards. Keep two Fir2 charges and at least one Hrm2. If possible, also keep a couple of Harm, but these should be your main resource against undeads on the way. You should be Level 8 or close to that.
- Beat Lich. There are some chances that Ice2 kills one of the mages. Hopefully not the red. Fight + fight + Fir2 (then fight) + Hrm2 (then Harm). Don't bother healing. The battle should not be too bad.
- Go to Crescentlake. Do fight Troll/bull/giant monsters there, but not the rest.
- Buy heal potions until you have some amount of money around 5K, I don't remember the exact number. Then sell weapons (before armors). Just keep two silver swords + falchon. Then sell armors except silver stuff and the red mage's chain shirt. Buy silver everything for both fighters. You should have less than 60 gold now. (calculate the amount of heal for that)
- Get canoe. Go to Ordeals (by ship). Pick up zeus gauntlet (to white) and heal staff (to red). Do fight Mummy/WzMummy, ZomBull, ZombieD on the way. Fight MudGols unless there are three of them. Fight nightmare(s). Pick up the Ice sword (second fighter) and gold bracelet (red -- throw away chain shirt). Pick up the other chest there if you care, but this time it's better not to. Pick up gold and house on the bottom chests.
- Beat as much ZombieD as you can manage. Get TAIL. Leave Ordeals. Don't talk to the man on the way.
- Go straight north to Elfland. Inn and probably Church. Buy 4 soft potions. Buy Fast, Ice2 and Pure. Yeah, I know Pure costs more than potions, but potions are a waste of time.
- Leave from the left (or top if you prefer). Go to Ice cave. Cabin.
- Pick up the Ice shield (second fighter) and the 9500 gold beside it. Get FLOATER. Pick up Ice armor (first fighter) on the second way around. Don't bother with the extra 40000 gold there. Don't fight anything except Wizards and the Eye. You may fight R Bones, Coctrice/Mummy and undeads if you are behind in exp. You should be Level 11 when you pass the cave.
- Go by ship to the river below Crescentlake, and embark airship. Do class change. There is a whole lot of possible paths here.

The route I chose after class change:
- Pick up 20000+ gold in cardia. There is just one cave worth looting. (the one closest to Ordeals)
- Go to Coneria. Buy Ruse for everyone, and heal potions until full.
- Go to Gurgu. Pick up Ice sword and Flame shield (or maybe it's better not to, I'm not sure). Fight some Agama if low on money or exp. You should have 50000 gold after the volcano sales. Don't pick up flame armor. Beat Kary. This should be no problem.
- Go to Crescentlake. Inn. Sell stuff. Go to caravan. Buy BOTTLE. You should land directly on the caravan spot. Get OXYALE.
- Go to Waterfall. Pick up everything. Leave by walk.
- Enter Water shrine. Start with upper levels, getting the SLAB. Pick up Opal armor on the way. Pick up Opal bracelet, shield only if you care, and chests around SLAB. Equip stuff. Go toward Kraken. Pick up Ribbon. Don't bother about gold and stuff like the mage staff. Do fight everything that is not Lobster/SeaSnake on the way.
- Beat Kraken. Defense + Fight + Fast (2nd fighter) + Zeus. Defense + Fight + Fast (1st fighter) + Zeus. Fight + Fight + Fight + Zeus until victory. This should be no problem.
- Go to Melmond. Buy Cur3/Life for both mages, plus Hel2 and Warp. Talk to Unne. Go to Lefein. Talk to the guy.
- Go to Gaia. Sell stuff and buy ProRing for everyone. Do sell Zeus gauntlet and Opal gauntlet.
- Enter Mirage tower. Pick up Aegis shield and Heal helmet (to a fighter). Warp out and re-enter. Pick up Thor hammer, Sun sword and dragon armor. Juggle with equipment the best you can to save time. I didn't manage to do it correctly myself.
- Enter Sky castle. Pick up Ribbon (second fighter -- make sure dragon armor + aegis shield are on the other one). Pick up White & Black shirt (both for white wizard). Pick up ADAMANT. Pick up ProCape for red (I don't know if it's worth the trouble).
- Engage Tiamat. Defense + Fight + Fast (2nd fighter) + White shirt. Fight + Fight + Fast (1st fighter) + White shirt. Then Fight + Fight + Fight + Hel2 for the rest of the battle. This should be no problem.
- Get Xcalber. Go to Coneria. Inn. Buy max of heal potions. Get white wizard petrified in Ice cave.
- Enter ToFR. Fight mostly only monsters that don't allow you to escape, unless low on exp. You should enter ToFR at Level 15 and get to Level 18 for Chaos. If red dies, soft white. Otherwise don't use soft on white wizard until after Kraken. Pick up Masmune. Warp. Give masmune to second fighter. (I gave it to white wizard, but shouldn't have)
- Engage Chaos. You should have all (or all but one) your white wizard's Level-5 spell charges available for Hel2. You should also not have used too many Fast charges on lesser boss battles on the way. Defense + Ruse + Fast (2nd fighter) + White shirt. Defense + Fight + Fast (1st fighter) + White shirt. Fight + Fight + Ruse + Hel2 (or Ruse is hp is still high). Fight + Fight + Ruse + Ruse (or Hel2 if not last turn). Fight + Fight + Fast (self) + Hel2. Fight + Fight + Fight + various healing, until victory.

I didn't want to flood this multi-segment thread with single-segment route details, and I didn't see enough activity on the FF single-segment thread to bother.

The route I used for the FFRW team:
- Buy three rapiers + one iron hammer, then two chain mails and Cure for both mages, then go for Garland.
- Try to get one Ghoul as a the second encounter.
- Go directly to Pravoka if possible, but possibly Inn at Coneria.
- Fight Bikke right away, then buy Mute for the red mage.
- Go loot the dwarves' thousand gold. Probably Inn at Coneria on the way and buy 2-3 pure.
- Go to Coneria with the money, buy Ruse and Harm for the white mage, Lit for the red mage, plus two tents, and buy potions up to 15 heal and 10 pure. If you lack money, cut on potions with a 3:2 proportion.
- Go to Elfland. Buy at least an Iron shield, but if you're slack then buy two plus an Iron helmet. Inn if not full.
- Go directly to Marsh cave. Fight on the way if possible. Tent right in front. You should be level 4 with everyone.
- Get to the Wizard spot, but pick the short sword, iron armor and house on the way. The short goes to the second fighter, the iron armor to the first fighter (his chain mail goes to the red mage). Don't engage Wizards yet.
- Make sure your second fighter is Level 5. If not, do one or two additional battles. Normally, he should be really close if not already there. Of course, switch the fighters (and their equipment) of the first one reaches Level 5 before.
- Put the second fighter at the 4th position, and the (unarmored) white mage at the 2nd position.
- Engage the Wizards. If there are four of them, you are probably toasted. Otherwise, fight + ruse + lit + fight, for two rounds. Don't be afraid to overkill the first wizard. Once there are just two of them, the battle becomes easy. Both mages should use cure or heal potions after that, until the battle is won.
- Put the second fighter back in 2nd row. Leave the Marsh cave. Don't heal the white wizard on the way out. Go directly to Astos. Tent outside.
- Engage Astos: fight + fight + mute, for two rounds. The first fighter will probably die from rub, but that's OK. There are some chances that you don't succeed in muting him. In that case, you're toast.
- Go back to Elfland, and depending on your shape, Inn and/or Church.
- Pick the HERB, then the KEY + all Elfcastle chests, then do some shopping in Elfland. Buy Fir2, Hrm2, and if possible Cur2 for the white (before Hrm2, so that the order gets right in the menu). I doubt it, but if you have money for another Cur2, then now is the best time.
- Go to Astos's castle. Pick up the three treasure chests. Give falchon to the first fighter. Fight Mummies until out of spell charges. Leave, house, re-enter.
- Go to Elfland. Sell Power staff and short sword. Buy two silver swords. Buy Cur2 for whoever doesn't have it. Buy two soft potions. Buy 2 cabins. Leave town from the left. Give falchon to the red mage and equip stuff.
- Pick the TNT + Coneria castle chests. Go to Coneria. Buy up to 10 pure and as much heal as possible (until cash is below 60, that is). Pick dwarves chests. Go to Melmond. Sell weapons except two silver swords and a falchon. Sell stuff that isn't iron, except red mage's chain shirt. Buy iron everything to both fighters. Buy Silver bracelet to white mage. From now on, whenever team is disordered from poison, consider fighters as interchangeable, and mages too.
- Go to Earth cave. Cabin. Pick up Coral sword and useless chest just beside it, and equip coral instead of falchon.
- Give a humility lesson to the Vampire. You should use one charge of Fir2 and one charge of Hrm2. On the way, fight undeads and Wizards, but nothing else. Use Level-3 spells for undeads (such as Fir2), but be conservative.
- Leave Earth cave. Cabin. Give RUBY to titan. Pick up silver helmet and other useless chests. Get ROD.
- Go directly back to earth cave. House. Go straight to Lich, no chests. Again, fight only undeads and Wizards. Keep two Fir2 charges and at least one Hrm2. If possible, also keep a couple of Harm, but these should be your main resource against undeads on the way. You should be Level 8 or close to that.
- Beat Lich. There are some chances that Ice2 kills one of the mages. Hopefully not the red. Fight + fight + Fir2 (then fight) + Hrm2 (then Harm). Don't bother healing. The battle should not be too bad.
- Go to Crescentlake. Do fight Troll/bull/giant monsters there, but not the rest.
- Buy heal potions until you have some amount of money around 5K, I don't remember the exact number. Then sell weapons (before armors). Just keep two silver swords + falchon. Then sell armors except silver stuff and the red mage's chain shirt. Buy silver everything for both fighters. You should have less than 60 gold now. (calculate the amount of heal for that)
- Get canoe. Go to Ordeals (by ship). Pick up zeus gauntlet (to white) and heal staff (to red). Do fight Mummy/WzMummy, ZomBull, ZombieD on the way. Fight MudGols unless there are three of them. Fight nightmare(s). Pick up the Ice sword (second fighter) and gold bracelet (red -- throw away chain shirt). Pick up the other chest there if you care, but this time it's better not to. Pick up gold and house on the bottom chests.
- Beat as much ZombieD as you can manage. Get TAIL. Leave Ordeals. Don't talk to the man on the way.
- Go straight north to Elfland. Inn and probably Church. Buy 4 soft potions. Buy Fast, Ice2 and Pure. Yeah, I know Pure costs more than potions, but potions are a waste of time.
- Leave from the left (or top if you prefer). Go to Ice cave. Cabin.
- Pick up the Ice shield (second fighter) and the 9500 gold beside it. Get FLOATER. Pick up Ice armor (first fighter) on the second way around. Don't bother with the extra 40000 gold there. Don't fight anything except Wizards and the Eye. You may fight R Bones, Coctrice/Mummy and undeads if you are behind in exp. You should be Level 11 when you pass the cave.
- Go by ship to the river below Crescentlake, and embark airship. Do class change. There is a whole lot of possible paths here.

The route I chose after class change:
- Pick up 20000+ gold in cardia. There is just one cave worth looting. (the one closest to Ordeals)
- Go to Coneria. Buy Ruse for everyone, and heal potions until full.
- Go to Gurgu. Pick up Ice sword and Flame shield (or maybe it's better not to, I'm not sure). Fight some Agama if low on money or exp. You should have 50000 gold after the volcano sales. Don't pick up flame armor. Beat Kary. This should be no problem.
- Go to Crescentlake. Inn. Sell stuff. Go to caravan. Buy BOTTLE. You should land directly on the caravan spot. Get OXYALE.
- Go to Waterfall. Pick up everything. Leave by walk.
- Enter Water shrine. Start with upper levels, getting the SLAB. Pick up Opal armor on the way. Pick up Opal bracelet, shield only if you care, and chests around SLAB. Equip stuff. Go toward Kraken. Pick up Ribbon. Don't bother about gold and stuff like the mage staff. Do fight everything that is not Lobster/SeaSnake on the way.
- Beat Kraken. Defense + Fight + Fast (2nd fighter) + Zeus. Defense + Fight + Fast (1st fighter) + Zeus. Fight + Fight + Fight + Zeus until victory. This should be no problem.
- Go to Melmond. Buy Cur3/Life for both mages, plus Hel2 and Warp. Talk to Unne. Go to Lefein. Talk to the guy.
- Go to Gaia. Sell stuff and buy ProRing for everyone. Do sell Zeus gauntlet and Opal gauntlet.
- Enter Mirage tower. Pick up Aegis shield and Heal helmet (to a fighter). Warp out and re-enter. Pick up Thor hammer, Sun sword and dragon armor. Juggle with equipment the best you can to save time. I didn't manage to do it correctly myself.
- Enter Sky castle. Pick up Ribbon (second fighter -- make sure dragon armor + aegis shield are on the other one). Pick up White & Black shirt (both for white wizard). Pick up ADAMANT. Pick up ProCape for red (I don't know if it's worth the trouble).
- Engage Tiamat. Defense + Fight + Fast (2nd fighter) + White shirt. Fight + Fight + Fast (1st fighter) + White shirt. Then Fight + Fight + Fight + Hel2 for the rest of the battle. This should be no problem.
- Get Xcalber. Go to Coneria. Inn. Buy max of heal potions. Get white wizard petrified in Ice cave.
- Enter ToFR. Fight mostly only monsters that don't allow you to escape, unless low on exp. You should enter ToFR at Level 15 and get to Level 18 for Chaos. If red dies, soft white. Otherwise don't use soft on white wizard until after Kraken. Pick up Masmune. Warp. Give masmune to second fighter. (I gave it to white wizard, but shouldn't have)
- Engage Chaos. You should have all (or all but one) your white wizard's Level-5 spell charges available for Hel2. You should also not have used too many Fast charges on lesser boss battles on the way. Defense + Ruse + Fast (2nd fighter) + White shirt. Defense + Fight + Fast (1st fighter) + White shirt. Fight + Fight + Ruse + Hel2 (or Ruse is hp is still high). Fight + Fight + Ruse + Ruse (or Hel2 if not last turn). Fight + Fight + Fast (self) + Hel2. Fight + Fight + Fight + various healing, until victory.

FionordeQuester

2010-02-25 07:57:07 pm

Wow, thanks a lot Wonkle! My request wasn't inconvenient or anything was it?

Winkwonle

2010-02-25 08:30:11 pm

You did sound a little skeptical about the quality of my analyses, saying that I hadn't said ANYTHING useful yet. The step counting was supposed to be more relevant for a multi-segment. I was just following the discussion with WarMech, and we were talking about crazy encounter optimization and little aspects of the game that could allow for saving time.

FionordeQuester

Edit history:

FionordeQuester: 2010-02-25 10:33:03 pm

2010-02-25 10:26:40 pm

No, no, no, I wasn't doubting the quality of your analysis at all :o! Sorry if I gave you that impression!

Don't get me wrong, everything you were talking about was really informative, and you opened my mind a bit. I never would've thought to use any party other than a FFFR for example. The only problem was that none of your posts contained information that actually answered the question I had. That was all I meant by it, none of your posts answered the question, that was all I meant. And it was a question I was really curious to know.

Lenophis

2010-02-26 12:38:23 am

0-10

Quote from Winkwonle:

- Engage Tiamat. Defense + Fight + Fast (2nd fighter) + White shirt. Fight + Fight + Fast (1st fighter) + White shirt. Then Fight + Fight + Fight + Hel2 for the rest of the battle. This should be no problem.

You're not using the bane sword? This is the only boss in the game that you are normally able to one-shot, and you aren't doing it? Huh?

Carcinogen

2010-02-26 09:25:46 am

Quote:

Carc, it's up to you to get FF1 on the site now.

I run and then I hop, hop, hop,
I wish that I could fly!
There's danger if I dare to stop,
and here's the reason why!
You see, I'm overdue, I'm in a rabbit stew!
Can't even say "Goodbye", "Hello",
I'm late, I'm late, I'm late!