Ecco the Dolphin (Genesis)

2013-08-20 01:48:56 pm

ptera pond: can you do that consistently? newpants and i were playing around with that some months ago but couldn't get the wall to eject you in any consistent way.

Rezard

Edit history:

Rezard: 2013-08-20 05:36:19 pm

2013-08-20 05:27:11 pm

Meteor Swarm

Yes and no , i know how to pull it off every time , but sometime i mess up the first part and it won't work.
this is a two steep glitch , the first one is the position of the petra when you got caught by him (that up down + B is necessary , i mash it im my point it help) btw if the ptera is higher than that the glich won't work , or it will work but not in the way we want . The second part is the most tedious if you don't know when to do it. Since you must release the direction at a precise point (the margin is very low) , and press another dirrection and C , if you don't do that you will get stuck otg. Also the direction you hold is also primordial.

I did this video that may help a lot with the input timming of the second part (after he caught you)

halfbakedprophet

Edit history:

halfbakedprophet: 2013-08-20 11:14:56 pm

halfbakedprophet: 2013-08-20 09:35:18 pm

2013-08-20 09:34:45 pm

Sweet new tech. This does really raise the question of vertical camera-freezing, though. Before I just assumed to avoid all of it, vertical and horizontal, but it's argubale that vertical should be legal while horizontal isn't.

Most importantly, the horizontal clip can be done literally anywhere, the only criterea being whether you can get enough space to unload a wall or not. The vertical clips essentially always require a set-up, although they are possible nearly anywhere with frame-precise inputs.

Some of the vertical clips look really cool and actually do really unique things to the game engine (undercaves clip), and would be far less dominating of the game in contrast to any%.

Thoughts?

edit: also, awesome t-shirt design. Maybe change it to "Alien vs Dolphin" to be a play on the movie?

Rezard

Edit history:

Rezard: 2013-08-22 01:57:36 pm

2013-08-21 05:39:04 am

Meteor Swarm

This is not a camera freeze clip acctualy.The way it work is understandable but still obscure, the game think that you are still underwater when the ptera caught you (this up down +B things do the trick).

About camera freeze im only using the vertical clip for undercaves (because the glitch combo on this level is awesome to watch), but im fine to run the game withouth it . Im just using it cause if fun and nowhere near the horizontal glitch input/timming.

Edit Did a glitch faq.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qWpj8knJMOYj2Dy_yLDQTp1-Hqgvxg4PcXvUaJZE1eE/

halfbakedprophet

2013-09-01 11:15:48 am

So the camera freezing is irrelevant in the Pteranodon glitch? Unfortunately that's how the undercaves glitch operates, so I really can't see how to allow a vertical clip w/ a setup and not allow free-floating vertical camera-freeze. But if Ecco's position is all that affects the Pteranodon glitch, and not the camera, then I see no reason to disallow it. I really want the undercaves glitch to be legal, though :/ Looks so dang cool

Rezard

2013-09-03 01:38:50 pm

Meteor Swarm

the camera freeze glitch have nothing to do with the pteranodon glitch plus the ptera glitch is way more dangerous to do if you miss it , it screw the entire run.
Yea i want the undercave to be legal too , it doesn't look boring like the horizontal clip and its effective only on this level.

halfbakedprophet

2013-09-05 09:34:42 am

Vertical clips are 'possible' nearly anywhere though. If the undercaves clip is allowed, then what's to stop someone from doing frame-perfect vertical clips into walls (in a similar fashion as the horizontal clips in any)%?

Rezard

2013-09-05 04:34:44 pm

Meteor Swarm

yea that the problems but frame perfect.. since once you get on the position ecco will move horizontaly automaticaly making it almost impossible to do. , it should be only allowed on undercaves and at the end of ridge water (despit the fact is useless to use it here).
at the end this game gona get lots of category >

halfbakedprophet

2013-09-06 02:16:44 pm

That's what I mean though, simply having "don't use X clip on Y stages" is way too arbitrary, even by speedrunning's standards. The only way I can think of is to actually allow all vertical clips, and if someone masters the frame-perfect freefloating clip then I guess they get WR in that category. Seems pretty weak though.

Nossoalokas

Edit history:

Nossoalokas: 2017-07-03 10:54:31 pm

2014-01-13 08:50:30 am

.

Rezard

2014-01-18 09:47:32 am

Meteor Swarm

Only few of us still (i guess) run this game, i do it sometimes but im focused on other title form now , Have fun learning it.

Anyway i updated my glitch faq with new stuff.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=192343679#171157

Dolfinh

Edit history:

Dolfinh: 2014-06-10 03:10:45 pm

2014-06-10 02:33:50 pm

Uhhhh 10

So in an effort to revive the thread and make Ecco kind of a thing again, I'm going to dump a few tides resources here since it's the game I've been running most. I think since Vorpal ~~is too busy with dark souls 2 instead of running real speedgames~~ is currently inactive with the game and newspants hasn't been playing it at all lately, I'm pretty much the only active runner for it.

Here's me Getting through tides in 42:18 which is a significant improvement from the last runs I've done. The biggest thing that's been found recently is the Fish City skip, which can be achieved by holding B+C, and left, then hitting up after about a third of a second. This saves about 50 seconds when done optimally. Rezard has a video off the inputs for this but I couldn't find it.

There are a couple of very strange things i've run into but never been able to replicate. One of the most baffling ones is that I Accidentally skipped the post time travel animation where Ecco spins around in the second half of Two Tides. I've also run into this, where I seem to have successfully hit the loading zone but also somehow triggered a death sequence that shouldn't play on that stage.

In Moray Abyss (giant shell level) you can save 20 seconds if you push the Shell down to the bottom. However, this is extremely risky as it whittles down your health very fast and if you mess it up, you're going to lose time instead of gaining time. The game gives you fish to restore your health at various points but even with those it's fairly difficult to stay alive. I haven't implemented this into the run yet because I don't really understand the shell behavior.

In Lunar Bay part 2/Vortex Future 1 (it's just called Vortex Future in the debug menu) you can skip the segment where you have to jump diagonally from tube to tube, as done in Upthorns hard mode TAS. This is completely doable, but the angle is very tricky and I haven't really figured it out yet. The RNG glyph that vorpal mentioned earlier in the thread seems to be determined by whether or not you hit the invincibility glyph earlier in the level.

There's a video tutorial on my youtube channel, but it's pretty outdated and I plan on making a new one soon when I order my new capture card. For now, the next best thing is probably my recent Marathon Run where I talk a little bit about the stuff that has recently been found. The run starts like 6 minutes in because my capture card kept eating itself during the marathon.

Overall, I really would recommend checking out Tides. It's a little more movement heavy than Ecco 1, but still has some neat tricks here and there you can use to save time.

EDIT: Also would be interested in running leaderboards on google docs if people were interested.

So in an effort to revive the thread and make Ecco kind of a thing again, I'm going to dump a few tides resources here since it's the game I've been running most. I think since Vorpal [s]is too busy with dark souls 2 instead of running real speedgames[/s] is currently inactive with the game and newspants hasn't been playing it at all lately, I'm pretty much the only active runner for it.

Here's me [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf1WUB15IQ8]Getting through tides in 42:18[/url] which is a significant improvement from the last runs I've done. The biggest thing that's been found recently is the Fish City skip, which can be achieved by holding B+C, and left, then hitting up after about a third of a second. This saves about 50 seconds when done optimally. Rezard has a video off the inputs for this but I couldn't find it.

There are a couple of very strange things i've run into but never been able to replicate. One of the most baffling ones is that I [url=http://www.twitch.tv/svetsunov/c/4023153]Accidentally skipped the post time travel animation where Ecco spins around[/url] in the second half of Two Tides. I've also run into [url=http://www.twitch.tv/svetsunov/c/4217695]this[/url], where I seem to have successfully hit the loading zone but also somehow triggered a death sequence that shouldn't play on that stage.

In Moray Abyss (giant shell level) you can save 20 seconds if you push the Shell down to the bottom. However, this is extremely risky as it whittles down your health very fast and if you mess it up, you're going to lose time instead of gaining time. The game gives you fish to restore your health at various points but even with those it's fairly difficult to stay alive. I haven't implemented this into the run yet because I don't really understand the shell behavior.

In Lunar Bay part 2/Vortex Future 1 (it's just called Vortex Future in the debug menu) you can skip the segment where you have to jump diagonally from tube to tube, as done in Upthorns hard mode TAS. This is completely doable, but the angle is very tricky and I haven't really figured it out yet. The RNG glyph that vorpal mentioned earlier in the thread seems to be determined by whether or not you hit the invincibility glyph earlier in the level.

There's a video tutorial on my youtube channel, but it's pretty outdated and I plan on making a new one soon when I order my new capture card. For now, the next best thing is probably my recent [url=http://www.twitch.tv/thefastforce/b/536495769]Marathon Run[/url] where I talk a little bit about the stuff that has recently been found. The run starts like 6 minutes in because my capture card kept eating itself during the  marathon.

Overall, I really would recommend checking out Tides. It's a little more movement heavy than Ecco 1, but still has some neat tricks here and there you can use to save time.

EDIT: Also would be interested in running leaderboards on google docs if people were interested.

Dolfinh

2014-07-24 02:36:39 pm

Uhhhh 10

Well, I just got a 41:42

My Sum of Best is under 40, though I still wonder if that's humanly possible. My movement has gotten a lot more solid but I'm really not sure how much further I can push this game with current strats.

Phosis

2016-01-21 12:21:33 am

I have been running Ecco now for the past weeks (a little over a month very seriously, much longer than that in a half hearted way.) and wanted to bring to light something very small and probably known to many Ecco players. The Library is a particular tricky stage where objects not being drawn into existence if they are not on screen can be manipulated to move the blocks over the alcoves, preventing them from falling in since they are very difficult to remove both due to a persistent crab in that level and also to bad collision detection. But since I can't consistently get the block glitch correct, I spent some time to figure out just why Ecco can't seem to consistently lift blocks straight up on his nose.

The problem seems to lie in the camera itself, or at least that can be used to the players advantage when lifting the blocks out of the alcove. If you lift a block onto Ecco's snout but wait to begin pushing it upward until the camera has moved up a few frames and recentered on Ecco, he will successfully life the block every time without fail. It's not much of a wait, maybe a second, but it has saved time on runs for me so far, my best being a little under a half hour or so at this point. I've been searching levels for broken walls and things to maybe find more shortcuts but have not been successful.

So far, I have had a single segment run without a single death that was slowled down due to certain tricks not co-operating. So my own runs of the game are improving significantly. Important skips like The Lagoon skip I can perform within the first few tries generally. The biggest problem spots for me so far are the Jurassic levels with The Machine coming in a close second.

Anyways I haven't heard much on the Ecco front. I got into running Ecco due to a long time love for the series and discovering the runs by blueglass. I also talk to halfbakedprophet occassionally through Twitter so thought I'd pop in and share what is a very minor, but for me, helpful strategy in correcting failed runs of The Library, which used to be a very tricky stage for me.

I don't have any video or anything since I mostly run on an old Dell with Crunchbang linux, but eventually I'd like to record some of my gameplay and even attend a Games Done Quick Event. (I'm from Canada so it would be a real trip for me, not just a drive around the block unfortunately.)

I have been running Ecco now for the past weeks (a little over a month very seriously, much longer than that in a half hearted way.) and wanted to bring to light something very small and probably known to many Ecco players. The Library is a particular tricky stage where objects not being drawn into existence if they are not on screen can be manipulated to move the blocks over the alcoves, preventing them from falling in since they are very difficult to remove both due to a persistent crab in that level and also to bad collision detection. But since I can't consistently get the block glitch correct, I spent some time to figure out just why Ecco can't seem to consistently lift blocks straight up on his nose.

The problem seems to lie in the camera itself, or at least that can be used to the players advantage when lifting the blocks out of the alcove. If you lift a block onto Ecco's snout but wait to begin pushing it upward until the camera has moved up a few frames and recentered on Ecco, he will successfully life the block every time without fail. It's not much of a wait, maybe a second, but it has saved time on runs for me so far, my best being a little under a half hour or so at this point. I've been searching levels for broken walls and things to maybe find more shortcuts but have not been successful.

So far, I have had a single segment run without a single death that was slowled down due to certain tricks not co-operating. So my own runs of the game are improving significantly. Important skips like The Lagoon skip I can perform within the first few tries generally. The biggest problem spots for me so far are the Jurassic levels with The Machine coming in a close second.

Anyways I haven't heard much on the Ecco front. I got into running Ecco due to a long time love for the series and discovering the runs by blueglass. I also talk to halfbakedprophet occassionally through Twitter so thought I'd pop in and share what is a very minor, but for me, helpful strategy in correcting failed runs of The Library, which used to be a very tricky stage for me.

I don't have any video or anything since I mostly run on an old Dell with Crunchbang linux, but eventually I'd like to record some of my gameplay and even attend a Games Done Quick Event. (I'm from Canada so it would be a real trip for me, not just a drive around the block unfortunately.)

halfbakedprophet

2016-07-10 02:50:56 pm

Approximately where in Canada? I'm based around Toronto.

Sounds like you have a pretty good grip on the run already, I assume you've been sticking to no-freeze and ignoring any%? Try to get a stream online sometime if you can.

TheGaleForce

Edit history:

TheGaleForce: 2023-03-24 06:55:47 pm

2023-03-24 05:21:48 pm

Wow, this is a dead game huh? Well, I'm running it anyways just to see how low I can get my time. Haven't done any runs yet, but I've been doing a buttload of practice to master some of the more difficult sections of the game. Here's some highlights:

And just because I was curious to see how difficult it actually was, I figured out how to perform the old Pteranodon Pond skip. It's a pretty fun skip, too bad it's obsolete:

LotBlind

2023-03-25 03:59:49 pm

A "buttload of practice" sounds like the kind of thing that could and most definitely should convert into a brand new swazzy submission! Looks like the existing 0:28:32 run is from all the way way way way back in 2006! Also I didn't realize this game supports IL running too. Given all the ILs in the table are from within like a week of each other, how much effort can there really have been on the runner's part? My humble (but correct) opinion is those times also deserve a severe slim-down.

TheGaleForce

Edit history:

TheGaleForce: 2023-03-26 03:39:42 pm

TheGaleForce: 2023-03-25 06:17:03 pm

2023-03-25 06:16:23 pm

I came across something really strange in City of Forever that I don't see documented anywhere else so I'll post it here.

Sonar statue to unlock time machine as usual, but when I exit out of the dialogue, the horizontally moving crystals appear on screen, which is so abnormal. Get to the time machine and sonar (feel free to ignore how long it took me LOL), animation looks a bit bugged, then it cancels. Second attempt goes through as usual. Not really useful in any way but highly unusual.

Edit: After looking at the footage again, it looks like the sonar somehow didn't bounce back like it was supposed to, which caused the time travel to cancel. I wonder how that is related to the crystals spawning though.

TheGaleForce

2023-03-25 06:25:15 pm

Quote from LotBlind:

A "buttload of practice" sounds like the kind of thing that could and most definitely should convert into a brand new swazzy submission! Looks like the existing 0:28:32 run is from all the way way way way back in 2006! Also I didn't realize this game supports IL running too. Given all the ILs in the table are from within like a week of each other, how much effort can there really have been on the runner's part? My humble (but correct) opinion is those times also deserve a severe slim-down.

That's really interesting, I didn't know that either. Thanks for the info! I was just planning on using the thread to document my findings with no expectation of getting any responses, so that's a pleasant surprise. All the previous runners seem to have vanished. Don't blame em, current best time can't get much lower without new bugs to exploit.

LotBlind

2023-03-26 02:02:56 pm

For someone like me, the only way I'll watch a speedrun of a game is usually if it's on SDA with noob-friendly commentary or at least clean A/V (and of course having passed the gameplay etc. quality filter of the verification). TBH I don't have time to watch any other speedruns at all. So I'd at least be hugely interested in seeing this sympathetic game again which I don't have memories of otherwise but have seen run in a few of the marathons back when I was still keeping an eye on those. By the same runner I think. So if there's a massive amount of great RNG or such to overcome to WR this game, remember that SDA accepts non-WR runs too if they're reasonably close.

If you want more bugs, you gotta think even further outside the box, like Kendrick Lamar. Or you could try asking in the TASVideos thread in case anyone is interested in studying the game more together with you.