Ecco the Dolphin (Genesis)

2006-07-08 03:26:47 am

Yep yep yep!

The key to spedrunning ANYTHING is memorization, memorization, memorization. So I know by heart every part of the game my run goes to. Doesn't mean I don't die every once in a while.

"Comparable to the TAS" Stop that. Now. As for what I'm doing that wasn't in the TAS, there are lots of places where human limitations and luck force me to take a different route, and there's also the end of Ridge Water, where not only would what the TAS does there be completely SDA illegal, I also have no idea what's going on, but there's actually one speed trick I use at the beginning of Undercaves that the TAS doesn't: just after te first Barrier Glyph, swim up to the ceiling of the little cave area, swim left quickly along there, then charge diagonally downwards as soon as the current starts to take effect, and Ecco will pass through the current, saving the trouble of going around.

To keep Ecco form swimming off in an unintended direction, I simply press the D-pad in the direction I want to go. Are you sure you don't have a faulty controller, because saying this game has bad controls is one of the last things I would do? Zero, seeing as how I don't use curse words.

No Wink

As far as recording goes, I haven't had much time recently, but don't worry: I WILL get this run completed.

The key to spedrunning ANYTHING is memorization, memorization, memorization.  So I know by heart every part of the game my run goes to.  Doesn't mean I don't die every once in a while.

"Comparable to the TAS" Stop that.  Now.  As for what I'm doing that wasn't in the TAS, there are lots of places where human limitations and luck force me to take a different route, and there's also the end of Ridge Water, where not only would what the TAS does there be completely SDA illegal, I also have no idea what's going on, but there's actually one speed trick I use at the beginning of Undercaves that the TAS doesn't: just after te first Barrier Glyph, swim up to the ceiling of the little cave area, swim left quickly along there, then charge diagonally downwards as soon as the current starts to take effect, and Ecco will pass through the current, saving the trouble of going around.

To keep Ecco form swimming off in an [b]un[/b]intended direction, I simply press the D-pad in the direction I want to go.  Are you sure you don't have a faulty controller, because saying this game has bad controls is one of the last things I would do?  Zero, seeing as how I don't use curse words.

No ;)

As far as recording goes, I haven't had much time recently, but don't worry: I WILL get this run completed.

nate

2006-07-08 07:24:38 am

yeah, imo (of course) it has the best control of any game i've ever played. even metroid prime can't top it.

ecco never would have worked without control that good, either ... the player must know that he or she alone was responsible for ecco's death (not the control). i can remember reading interviews back when the game first came out where annunziata was talking about how he wanted people to feel as if they actually were ecco, versus a human pressing a, b or c or something, and again imo, i think they were successful in doing that. the game is this crazy rush to play because it goes so fast and the environment is trying to kill you all the time, and so you're challenged to learn to think faster than the game can get you, because if you can think that fast, ecco can most definitely move that fast, and you will make progress then.

BlueGlass

2006-07-23 04:53:27 am

Yep yep yep!

NOOOOOO!!!!!
STUPID.
VORTEX.
QUEEN.

Um yeah... so my best run yet just ended at the final boss. I'm estimating that the finishing time would have been somewhere around 26:30. I was doing really well, almost no mistakes, made it past the Asterite (always the tensest paret of any run that gets there (because after that everything's easy (relatively (I love parentheses))), though strangely I've never died at that point during an actual run), and then she ate me. Ah well, erase the DVD and try again tomorrow.

Oh, nate, I meant to respond to your last post but kinda forgot to so... That stuff about how they wanted the player to feel as though they were Ecco is really interesting. Do you happen to have those interviews anywhere, because if so, I'd like to read them.

nate

2006-07-23 05:17:38 am

i think i might have still had that particular one in 2002 before my family left houston, but i wouldn't know where it is if i still have it in my possession now, and unfortunately i just returned from my semiannual trip to my parents' place today, so i won't be able to look for about six months. :/

and that's more bad news about the run. were you getting anxious and did something you wouldn't normally do? bet that didn't feel too hot.

spineshark

2006-07-23 05:22:04 am

新世紀進歩的羽扇子音楽

were the interviews the ones that were at that one websi-

dude, i'm worthless. are logbot's logs ever coming back?

BlueGlass

2006-07-23 05:32:52 am

Yep yep yep!

Quote:

and that's more bad news about the run. were you getting anxious and did something you wouldn't normally do? bet that didn't feel too hot.

It's more that I just charged a bit too late, resulting in her eating me instead of losing her jaw. And I had spent about a half hour prior to starting running today practicing the fight to make absolutely sure I wouldn't die there again. Wait a sec... Both times I've practiced the final boss fight immediately before running, I've then proceeded to have a run that ends with her eating me. Wierd.

nate

Edit history:

nate: 2006-07-23 05:55:02 am

2006-07-23 05:54:57 am

wonder if it's really correlated. Smiley

Quote:

were the interviews the ones that were at that one websi-

dude, i'm worthless. are logbot's logs ever coming back?

no, yes.

BlueGlass

2006-08-02 05:19:22 am

Yep yep yep!

Unfortunately, run recording has hit a snag in the form of the DVD recorder partially breaking. It can still record DVDs just fine, but the A/V in no longer functions. So we can't hook anything up to it, making it completely useless as far as recording goes. We're going to try to get it fixed, but if that doesn't work, it looks like we'll have to buy a new one.

Strange coincidence: prior to my making this post, this topic was directly below the topic for Chakan, which was also made by Annunziata.

nate

2006-08-02 09:39:39 am

wow, that sucks ass. hope you can get that sorted out quickly. seeing this ecco run before the summer is over would be too awesome.

BlueGlass

2006-08-02 04:57:56 pm

Yep yep yep!

The chances of that happenning are very low, especially since summer for me ends in about two weeks, and I have no idea how long this'll take to get fixed, as my parens don't see it as a priority. I still have that not-very-good-but-complete 28:31 run from a while ago. Maybe I could send that in and improve it when I get the chance?

nate

2006-08-03 06:49:01 am

your call, but i think it would be preferable to not having a run up at all.

BlueGlass

2006-08-05 12:33:39 am

Yep yep yep!

Okay! Radix has been emailed, and I'm awaiting a response. Nate, instead of mailing the DVD to you, couldn't I find someplace to upload the 2.96 gigabytes of stuff on the DVD, and you could download it from there. It would save the hassle and time of transferring to DVD +/-R and mailing to you.

That's odd: when I tried to preview the message, it kept on not showing anything before "-R". On a completely unrelated note, having your wisdom teeth out doesn't hurt as much as I was led to believe.

nate

2006-08-05 03:27:39 am

ok cool, glad to hear you survived the surgery and got it submitted to radix, actually he's out of town this weekend but he'll get back to you when he gets back and give you a place to upload the stuff to (actually you might want to send him another email/pm saying you want the ftp url to upload to rather than paying to send the dvd). when you get the url, only upload all the files that end in .VOB from the dvd. i don't need anything else.

BlueGlass

2006-09-02 06:04:53 pm

Yep yep yep!

Well, getting a new DVD recorder didn't take as long as I had guessed. I think, though, that before I return to my SS run, I'll do individual level runs.

One question, though: should I email Radix and tell him that I'll soon be working on an improvement of my current run and as such am planning to no longer send it in (because it would be silly for Nate to go through the hassle of encoding it and whatnot when there's a much better run on its way)?

Also, about the IL runs themselves, is it okay if I use the debug menu to access levels as long as I record everything so you can clearly see I'm not using anything but the level select (it's so much quicker and easier than going to the password screen and using that) , and I'm assuming that there's no need to record 2nd runs on Deep Water and City of Forever (and am also assuming that Home Bay doesn't count as a level), and do I have to record The Tube and Machine, or can they just be taken from my full game run once I do that (or are videos entirely unnecessary).

Well, getting a new DVD recorder didn't take as long as I had guessed.  I think, though, that before I return to my SS run, I'll do individual level runs.

One question, though: should I email Radix and tell him that I'll soon be working on an improvement of my current run and as such am planning to no longer send it in (because it would be silly for Nate to go through the hassle of encoding it and whatnot when there's a much better run on its way)?

Also, about the IL runs themselves, is it okay if I use the debug menu to access levels as long as I record everything so you can clearly see I'm not using anything but the level select (it's so much quicker and easier than going to the password screen and using that) , and I'm assuming that there's no need to record 2nd runs on Deep Water and City of Forever (and am also assuming that Home Bay doesn't count as a level), and do I have to record The Tube and Machine, or can they just be taken from my full game run once I do that (or are videos entirely unnecessary).

nate

2006-09-02 08:56:08 pm

Quote:

Well, getting a new DVD recorder didn't take as long as I had guessed. I think, though, that before I return to my SS run, I'll do individual level runs.

One question, though: should I email Radix and tell him that I'll soon be working on an improvement of my current run and as such am planning to no longer send it in (because it would be silly for Nate to go through the hassle of encoding it and whatnot when there's a much better run on its way)?

Also, about the IL runs themselves, is it okay if I use the debug menu to access levels as long as I record everything so you can clearly see I'm not using anything but the level select (it's so much quicker and easier than going to the password screen and using that) , and I'm assuming that there's no need to record 2nd runs on Deep Water and City of Forever (and am also assuming that Home Bay doesn't count as a level), and do I have to record The Tube and Machine, or can they just be taken from my full game run once I do that (or are videos entirely unnecessary).

i think all your assumptions are correct (everyone uses the level select in the old sonic games too). it would be nice to have videos of the tube and the machine and so i'll just take them from your run. i've notified radix and we're eagerly awaiting your ss mk2 and i-l table. i'll be taking out any records you do that i find below my level of ability, so watch out. Wink

[quote]Well, getting a new DVD recorder didn't take as long as I had guessed.  I think, though, that before I return to my SS run, I'll do individual level runs.

One question, though: should I email Radix and tell him that I'll soon be working on an improvement of my current run and as such am planning to no longer send it in (because it would be silly for Nate to go through the hassle of encoding it and whatnot when there's a much better run on its way)?

Also, about the IL runs themselves, is it okay if I use the debug menu to access levels as long as I record everything so you can clearly see I'm not using anything but the level select (it's so much quicker and easier than going to the password screen and using that) , and I'm assuming that there's no need to record 2nd runs on Deep Water and City of Forever (and am also assuming that Home Bay doesn't count as a level), and do I have to record The Tube and Machine, or can they just be taken from my full game run once I do that (or are videos entirely unnecessary).[/quote]
i think all your assumptions are correct (everyone uses the level select in the old sonic games too). it would be nice to have videos of the tube and the machine and so i'll just take them from your run. i've notified radix and we're eagerly awaiting your ss mk2 and i-l table. i'll be taking out any records you do that i find below my level of ability, so watch out. ;)

BlueGlass

Edit history:

BlueGlass: 2006-09-03 02:24:37 am

2006-09-03 01:22:14 am

Yep yep yep!

Quote:

i think all your assumptions are correct (everyone uses the level select in the old sonic games too). it would be nice to have videos of the tube and the machine and so i'll just take them from your run. i've notified radix and we're eagerly awaiting your ss mk2 and i-l table. i'll be taking out any records you do that i find below my level of ability, so watch out. Wink

Thanks once more! I'll get working on these ASAP.

EDIT: First three levels done
Medusa Bay: 0:11
Undercaves: 0:45
The Vents: 0:20

Also, I found a possible speed trick on Lagoon, but I want to double check that it's allowed. Basically, after getting the key glyph, go to the spikes you had to swim through to get there, and use them to force Ecco into the wall(by facing straight downwards), then swim through the wall out of the area, skipping sonaring the star ring. Unfortunately, you can't just swim to the end of the level inside the wall, because of random solid parts of wall. No, this does not work on the other part of the level where the spikes are near the ceiling.

EDIT2: more times
Ridge Water: 1:31
Open Ocean: 0:48 (by pure luck, I managed a perfect run on my first try)
Ice Zone: 0:09
Hard Water: 0:30
Cold Water: 1:55

I think I'm done for the night.

[quote]
i think all your assumptions are correct (everyone uses the level select in the old sonic games too). it would be nice to have videos of the tube and the machine and so i'll just take them from your run. i've notified radix and we're eagerly awaiting your ss mk2 and i-l table. i'll be taking out any records you do that i find below my level of ability, so watch out. ;)[/quote]
Thanks once more!  I'll get working on these ASAP.

EDIT: First three levels done
Medusa Bay: 0:11
Undercaves: 0:45
The Vents: 0:20

Also, I found a possible speed trick on Lagoon, but I want to double check that it's allowed.  Basically, after getting the key glyph, go to the spikes you had to swim through to get there, and use them to force Ecco into the wall(by facing straight downwards), then swim through the wall out of the area, skipping sonaring the star ring.  Unfortunately, you can't just swim to the end of the level inside the wall, because of random solid parts of wall.  No, this does not work on the other part of the level where the spikes are near the ceiling.

EDIT2: more times
Ridge Water: 1:31
Open Ocean: 0:48 (by pure luck, I managed a perfect run on my first try)
Ice Zone: 0:09
Hard Water: 0:30
Cold Water: 1:55

I think I'm done for the night.

nate

2006-09-03 02:32:44 am

haha, nice on open ocean. i don't think we're going to be able to allow that lagoon thing because it sounds like you spend way too long inside the wall. does that seem excessive to you or is it really not that bad? basically you should answer based on whether you'd rather watch a video with that shortcut in it or not.

BlueGlass

2006-09-03 03:26:39 am

Yep yep yep!

It's about 3-4 seconds inside the wall, versus the 15-25 or so seconds it takes to swim to the ring and sonar it and whatnot, so yeah, I'd personally waching a video with the shortcut

nate

2006-09-03 04:50:07 am

oh ok that's way less than i thought. sort of like deep water then. that's no problem then; something similar happens in oil ocean zone act 2.

BlueGlass

2006-09-04 06:03:04 pm

Yep yep yep!

Several more levels done
The Lagoon: 1:36
Deep Water: 0:35
Marble Sea: 0:25
City of Forever: 0:19
Jurassic Beach: 0:49
Pteradon Pond: 1:27
Origin Beach: 0:31
Trilobite Circle: 0:28
Dark Water: 0:27

Now all I have left are Island Zone, which is going to be ridiculously hard, Deep City, in which I plan on mimicing the TAS for that first jump, The Library, which was just plain not cooperating with me earlier, and The Last Fight, which I'm saving for last. Then I'll return to my SS.

nate

2006-09-04 06:33:59 pm

library is annoying. looks like you're making a lot of progress though - very cool. it makes me glad to work here. Wink

BlueGlass

2006-09-08 02:22:45 am

Yep yep yep!

Just The Last Fight left.

The Library: 0:35
Deep City: 1:02
Island Zone: 0:49

nate

2006-09-08 05:24:13 pm

kick ass.

BlueGlass

2006-09-08 09:49:40 pm

Yep yep yep!

And the Vortex Queen falls in 45 seconds, including her death animation.

Now to start working on that SS. Should I email Radix and tell him that I've completed IL runs for all the levels, or should I wait uuntil I finish the SS, especially seeing as how the game is still sitting in the verifacation sticky anyway?

nate

2006-09-08 10:20:08 pm

i'm swamped right now. go ahead and start working on the ss again. if you can't get something after a while then we can talk again.