EarthBound

Edit history:

Stenirrpg: 2013-04-07 08:51:58 am

2013-04-07 08:51:20 am

It depends. Technically, the entire EarthBound map is just one giant map. Every room, every area, etc., is all on the same "screen". However, if you actually counted them normally, many people might miss going into all of the bakeries, rooms on the second floors of hospitals, or even that one house where they state they are working on EarthBound 2. There are a lot of thing that you would miss on a normal run.

I think this is a good conversation that should keep going so we eventually reach a finalized definition specifically for EarthBound to shoot for. I do agree - make a separate run with all of those included. I already started that, and started getting streaming up and running at Twitch for a "100%" run that consists of all Sidequests, Photoman Locations, Jeff fixing Broken Items, Gift Boxes/Presents/Cans, and all Psychic Powers. I'm currently breaking it into six segments, with the first being Onett through completing Threed. I ended up in Dusty Dunes Desert at 3:18:47, but that time can definitely be cut down (I didn't realize at first that I could save in Twoson, complete the Happy Happy Village portion to include Lilliput Steps, then deathwarp to skip traveling back - saves about 2-3 minutes, depending on number of fights). It also would have helped if my controller had not acted up during the 3 minute password timer. I lost about 7 minutes there because my old controller reacts for certain things it shouldn't (got a "new" one, so hopefully that fixes it).

I am interested on the 100% map "completion", so what I plan to do as I study my run is to make a list of areas and cross off the ones that I go into. Should give a better idea of how close that one is.

It depends. Technically, the entire EarthBound map is just one giant map. Every room, every area, etc., is all on the same "screen". However, if you actually counted them normally, many people might miss going into all of the bakeries, rooms on the second floors of hospitals, or even that one house where they state they are working on EarthBound 2. There are a lot of thing that you would miss on a normal run.

I think this is a good conversation that should keep going so we eventually reach a finalized definition specifically for EarthBound to shoot for. I do agree - make a separate run with all of those included. I already started that, and started getting streaming up and running at Twitch for a "100%" run that consists of all Sidequests, Photoman Locations, Jeff fixing Broken Items, Gift Boxes/Presents/Cans, and all Psychic Powers. I'm currently breaking it into six segments, with the first being Onett through completing Threed. I ended up in Dusty Dunes Desert at 3:18:47, but that time can definitely be cut down (I didn't realize at first that I could save in Twoson, complete the Happy Happy Village portion to include Lilliput Steps, then deathwarp to skip traveling back - saves about 2-3 minutes, depending on number of fights). It also would have helped if my controller had not acted up during the 3 minute password timer. I lost about 7 minutes there because my old controller reacts for certain things it shouldn't (got a "new" one, so hopefully that fixes it).

I am interested on the 100% map "completion", so what I plan to do as I study my run is to make a list of areas and cross off the ones that I go into. Should give a better idea of how close that one is.

LotBlind

2013-04-07 11:08:23 am

So you're now doing a non-speedrun run? Just to show what your idea of 100% would be? Actually sounds like a fun idea to be *absolutely* perfectionistic about the game :). I can picture people laughing at visiting all meaningless rooms and getting all the junk you can possibly find. I'm pretty sure you'll never make it onto the Earthbound page on SDA though for the same reasons that must have kept others from doing the 100% but if you don't mind that, you're good to realize your vision. Are you on the livestreams page already? If not, do start a topic!

Stenirrpg

2013-04-11 08:16:03 am

The livestreams page? Do you mean twitch, or something else? I'm currently building up my route for a speedrun, while at the same time timing it out. But I plan on doing all the different versions (such as one where you get all boxes and then another one where you don't have to). I got up through Threed on twitch and started a run to complete the entire Fourside segment, but didn't get very far because I got mad trolled by the Moles. Well...to be honest, it was those stupid snakes constantly poisoning me.

Where is this livestreams page, unless you meant twitch? I am still doing it as a speedrun, but for now it's just segmented portions of the game as a route familiarization. Probably in a few weeks, I'll have it built up and have all the timings put together and have the finalized run time. However, it's highly unlikely this version would be considered the SDA 100%, so I agree it wouldn't end up here.

However, my current 100% doesn't include banging on all the doors and answering questions like the Beatles hit. XXXterday. |> Yes No

I think I'm gonna pick yes and then eat the hamburger I got from the trash can.

The livestreams page? Do you mean twitch, or something else? I'm currently building up my route for a speedrun, while at the same time timing it out. But I plan on doing all the different versions (such as one where you get all boxes and then another one where you don't have to). I got up through Threed on twitch and started a run to complete the entire Fourside segment, but didn't get very far because I got mad trolled by the Moles. Well...to be honest, it was those stupid snakes constantly poisoning me.

Where is this livestreams page, unless you meant twitch? I am still doing it as a speedrun, but for now it's just segmented portions of the game as a route familiarization. Probably in a few weeks, I'll have it built up and have all the timings put together and have the finalized run time. However, it's highly unlikely this version would be considered the SDA 100%, so I agree it wouldn't end up here.

However, my current 100% doesn't include banging on all the doors and answering questions like the Beatles hit. XXXterday. |> Yes      No

I think I'm gonna pick yes and then eat the hamburger I got from the trash can.

LotBlind

Edit history:

LotBlind: 2013-04-11 11:34:55 am

2013-04-11 11:30:17 am

???:D

I just meant this subforum on this site:
https://forum.speeddemosarchive.com/board/live_streaming.html

If I were you, I'd do one that clearly overdoes it and another one that stays within bounds.

I might tune into your stream at some point, I have it followed. In fact I just watched your last recording. Your split names are so funny!;D

Stenirrpg

2013-04-11 11:40:28 am

There are a lot of splits right now (I think Onett through Threed is just over 130) because of route-learning. I eventually wanted to rename them to match EarthBound's humor. Instead of Defeat Frank, it would be "Jump the Shark". Something like that.

Clearly overdoes it? Oh good lord. I'm still sticking with the "no 1/128 run", because that would just be insane to do. And mapping out everything would take quite a while. I'm going to start something up over there on that other subforum, for anyone to join me. For now, I think only the photomen locations are counting as 100%.

LotBlind

2013-04-11 11:53:12 am

Yep I meant in a way that's actually funny and shows the game and not like... took-a-million-retries -wise.

Stenirrpg

2013-04-11 01:57:54 pm

Yeah. By all means, join me on the live_streaming forum. I'll probably do another attempt at the Fourside segment tomorrow at about 6 pm Central USA Time. I had to cut Tuesday's short because of the thunderstorm, and I was attempting to refine it for tomorrow on Wednesday. Let's leave this to what will actually be 100%. But, be warned, I'll get good and come back!

LotBlind

2013-04-11 03:16:04 pm

6pm your time = 12am our time. if you ever stream any earlier, that sounds like fun.

Stenirrpg

2013-04-11 07:30:32 pm

Except on Saturdays, I couldn't. I work the standard 8-5. This Saturday I might, as I might be actually running the next segment of Fourside. I'm looking at running it offscreen just to get a time, then running it again tomorrow, then the third run on Saturday. I'll probably start doing Friday night runs followed by Saturday morning finalizations. Might get a segment done each week, but it's rather hilarious to see the images I mutilate.

My apologies to the designers of the Monkey Caves. It took four copies just to draw the entire section out. Wait...down with those designers! Smiley

So, possibly look to seeing me pop on for a run of it on Saturday, and feel free to watch tomorrow's run before.

Mickey_Mage

2013-06-15 12:26:54 pm

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

We're trying to define 100% in this game now? Great...

LotBlind

2013-06-16 01:29:11 pm

It won't become an SDA run at all because of that. Stenir, let me know if you're gonna stream some more of this at some point Smiley

Mickey_Mage

2013-06-21 10:13:00 pm

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

Quote from Stenirrpg:

It depends. Technically, the entire EarthBound map is just one giant map. Every room, every area, etc., is all on the same "screen". However, if you actually counted them normally, many people might miss going into all of the bakeries, rooms on the second floors of hospitals, or even that one house where they state they are working on EarthBound 2. There are a lot of thing that you would miss on a normal run.

Actually it's not all one big screen; because while you walk out of bounds, the game lags slightly when you transition to different screens, or areas where the music changes. The game may be one big map, but it is still segmented. Technically, the fastest way to get map completion would be to walk OOB, but of course we somehow want to legitimately walk into EVERY fucking house, when that makes no sense for a game that doesn't even track map completion.

nemi

2013-06-22 10:58:22 pm

An update on the glitched category:

SDA time: 1:32:57
Nico time: 1:50:51

I got this run a while ago. Since then, I've found new luck manipulation methods in Onett and Magicant. I also failed the first attempt at the glitch in Summers, so I can probably save almost 2 minutes off this run.

Luck manipulation in Onett can prevent encounters and guarantee a 4-round Starman Jr. fight. This method can also be used in a full-game run, but I get the Cookie from Tracy, while most runners don't.

In Magicant, I decided to fight the first Kraken instead of Mr. Molecules because avoiding that Kraken can be time consuming, and fighting it risks death. This method saves about a minute over my old method.

If anyone is interested, I'm thinking of streaming attempts on Twitch:

http://www.twitch.tv/nemi43

Mickey_Mage

2013-06-23 08:26:50 am

Glitching EB 1 flying man at a time

Awesome job, nemi! I'll probably chime in a bit more later after watching the video too. I'm glad you're keeping up with this, since it's such a cool category to play, as well as watch.

Deuceler

2013-07-06 07:10:21 pm

SPEEDruns not SAFEruns

I really would like to get in on running this game SS, and as far as doing a "glitchless" run I don't think that should be lumped into the same category. I also run FFIV and the route used has some glitches, but they just aren't game breaking (i.e. MP underflow and "infinite" money). They are used to defeat bosses quicker and make the run faster. Again, we are all here to beat the game as quickly as possible in a single segment. Meaning, to me, that you have to beat the game without reseting and without dying. If you do death warps (imo) it no longer becomes single segment, it's now a RTA. It would easy to lump the runs into a few categories, SS, RTA, Any%, and glitchless. Those are all pretty standard and have clearly defined rules. I know I'm in here running my mouth, but I have been thinking about this run for quite some time - I'm really excited there are people as passionate as I am about it. I will start routing very heavily after I finish my FFIV SS, and since I have a weird work schedule ( 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off) I should have plenty of time to do so. If anyone wants to talk about routing or anything feel free to message me here or on twitch (www.twitch.tv/deuceler). Looking forward to it!

I really would like to get in on running this game SS, and as far as doing a "glitchless" run I don't think that should be lumped into the same category. I also run FFIV and the route used has some glitches, but they just aren't game breaking (i.e. MP underflow and "infinite" money).  They are used to defeat bosses quicker and make the run faster. Again, we are all here to beat the game as quickly as possible in a single segment. Meaning, to me, that you have to beat the game without reseting and without dying.  If you do death warps (imo) it no longer becomes single segment, it's now a RTA.  It would easy to lump the runs  into a few categories, SS, RTA, Any%, and glitchless. Those are all pretty standard and have clearly defined rules.  I know I'm in here running my mouth, but I have been thinking about this run for quite some time - I'm really excited there are people as passionate as I am about it.  I will start routing very heavily after I finish my FFIV SS, and since I have a weird work schedule ( 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off) I should have plenty of time to do so.  If anyone wants to talk about routing or anything feel free to message me here or on twitch (www.twitch.tv/deuceler). Looking forward to it!

nemi

2013-07-08 02:41:46 am

I don't think glitchless and SS are lumped together, right? Currently, it sounds like there are 2 categories for SDA:

1. Full-game (SS): Can use any glitch other than stairs and "Check area" glitch. So things like cliff crossing and the condiments glitch can be used.

2. Glitched: Stairs glitch allowed.

Glitchless is more of a Nico/RTA category, I guess.

On another note, I got a PB on stream today:

http://www.twitch.tv/nemi43/c/2541487

SDA time: 1:30
Nico time: 1:48

Unfortunately, due to capture issues, I dropped a bunch of frames in the stream and in the recording. If it weren't for those technical problems, I probably could've submitted this Sad

Deuceler

2013-07-09 07:14:06 pm

SPEEDruns not SAFEruns

Nice Nemi! Watching now........

Rakuen

2013-07-09 08:09:49 pm

Weegee Time

nemi, I'd say the categories are [SS/Segmented] with [major skips/no major skips]. That makes 4 categories. The stairs glitch is a major skip.

nemi

2013-07-10 12:46:20 am

Oh, yeah, I left the SS/Segmented distinction unmentioned.

Caleb Hart

2013-08-29 04:35:15 pm

How does Nemi "see no problem" before the HP and main menu pop up on the luck manipulation when entering Flying Man room? I always get those menus before seeing no problem.

__sdfg

2013-08-30 05:57:03 pm

D:

Do you mean the couple frames where the game shows the menu after you exit the Sound Stone? If so, that's in the video, but it's really hard to see because it's a 30 fps twitch recording (though you can see the after-image of the HP display if you look closely).

__sdfg

2013-08-31 10:48:09 pm

D:

Double-post because I'm changing the subject.

A few days ago, I recorded a 4:51 any% glitchless run, which I believe is the record by a couple minutes. My run had at least 20 minutes of really, really, really, really bad stuff that's really, really obvious and really needs to go away in future runs. I had unusually good luck in a couple spots, which helped make up for it, but I still think sub-4:30 is a reasonable goal for a clean run given how much I did wrong.

I'm posting about this here because I believe most of the time I saved vs. previous glitchless runs came from re-routing item purchases and inventory management. I cut a fair amount of shopping and I think it was justified. I would like to see the times for this game go down and I think that will happen faster if people who are actually good at the game are playing it, so if anyone's interested, I've attached the spreadsheet I've been using for route planning and my slide deck for keeping track of what to do during the run. The slides mainly focus on inventory and reminding me not to do stupid things, so they are not good for learning the game, but I think anyone who's run EarthBound before should understand what's going on.

I'm gonna keep making adjustments to the route over the next few weeks (I haven't done many attempts yet), but if anyone has any comments, questions, or suggestions in the meantime, please feel free to share them.

Double-post because I'm changing the subject.

A few days ago, I recorded a [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlRUmOn-DkQ]4:51 any% glitchless run[/url], which I believe is the record by a couple minutes.  My run had at least 20 minutes of really, really, really, really bad stuff that's really, really obvious and really needs to go away in future runs.  I had unusually good luck in a couple spots, which helped make up for it, but I still think sub-4:30 is a reasonable goal for a clean run given how much I did wrong.

I'm posting about this here because I believe most of the time I saved vs. previous glitchless runs came from re-routing item purchases and inventory management.  I cut a fair amount of shopping and I think it was justified.  I would like to see the times for this game go down and I think that will happen faster if people who are actually good at the game are playing it, so if anyone's interested, I've attached the spreadsheet I've been using for route planning and my slide deck for keeping track of what to do during the run.  The slides mainly focus on inventory and reminding me not to do stupid things, so they are not good for learning the game, but I think anyone who's run EarthBound before should understand what's going on.

I'm gonna keep making adjustments to the route over the next few weeks (I haven't done many attempts yet), but if anyone has any comments, questions, or suggestions in the meantime, please feel free to share them.

Attachments:

EarthBound glitchless route notes.odp

EarthBound glitchless route notes.ods

nemi

2013-09-15 04:11:26 am

Apparently, someone on Nico was able to complete a run using the tent glitch in Threed:

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21797789

Run time is 55:28. This is the first time I've seen someone complete a run with the tent glitch outside of a TAS.

There is an explanation of what the runner knows about this glitch here.

My Japanese isn't great, but the hidden block below lists what I could gather. All of this is probably completely inapplicable to the English version.

1. Check the spot until the phrase っウダイずオ appears.

2. By the writer's estimate, there is a 3% chance of this phrase appearing each time you "check."

3. The writer tested with different combinations of equipment, items, levels, and money, but found no way of increasing this chance.

4. Once the phrase appears, a number of different outcomes can occur. The best outcome is when you hear invisible scrolling text. Advancing this scrolling text with the A button has a good chance of leading to the debug menu.

5. Even after activating the debug menu and warping to the end of the game, the game can subsequently warp you to a random location and make completing the run impossible. This can be prevented by holding up-right and pressing the A button until the invisible text stops scrolling.

Again, my Japanese isn't very good, so I might've misinterpreted some of this.

In the run, he saves in Threed and resets before heading to the tent. Whenever he got a bad outcome, he would reset and try again. It takes 8 tries before the debug menu appears.

According to this page on TASVideos, manipulating the debug menu in the English version is much less reliable than in the Japanese version. I have no idea if there is any discernible pattern to the way the glitch behaves in the English version.

Apparently, someone on Nico was able to complete a run using the tent glitch in Threed:

[url]http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm21797789[/url]

Run time is 55:28. This is the first time I've seen someone complete a run with the tent glitch outside of a TAS.

There is an explanation of what the runner knows about this glitch [url=http://ch.nicovideo.jp/nou/blomaga/ar321169]here[/url].

My Japanese isn't great, but the hidden block below lists what I could gather. All of this is probably completely inapplicable to the English version.

[hidden]
1. Check the spot until the phrase っウダイずオ appears.

2. By the writer's estimate, there is a 3% chance of this phrase appearing each time you "check."

3. The writer tested with different combinations of equipment, items, levels, and money, but found no way of increasing this chance.

4. Once the phrase appears, a number of different outcomes can occur. The best outcome is when you hear invisible scrolling text. Advancing this scrolling text with the A button has a good chance of leading to the debug menu.

5. Even after activating the debug menu and warping to the end of the game, the game can subsequently warp you to a random location and make completing the run impossible. This can be prevented by holding up-right and pressing the A button until the invisible text stops scrolling.

Again, my Japanese isn't very good, so I might've misinterpreted some of this.[/hidden]

In the run, he saves in Threed and resets before heading to the tent. Whenever he got a bad outcome, he would reset and try again. It takes 8 tries before the debug menu appears.

According to [url=http://tasvideos.org/2823S.html#TentGlitchDebugMenu]this page[/url] on TASVideos, manipulating the debug menu in the English version is much less reliable than in the Japanese version. I have no idea if there is any discernible pattern to the way the glitch behaves in the English version.

__sdfg

2013-09-15 10:52:53 am

D:

LOL that's amazing. WR text length for sure.

I wonder if the Onett debug menu is usable on either version.

japanzaman

2013-09-17 08:46:30 am

After the SS goes down, how about a BoF SS run, Greg? lol